Pod Save America – “Can Democrats Lose the Downer Image? + Chris Murphy in Conversation” (Crooked Con, Nov 12, 2025)

Episode Overview

This live episode from “Crooked Con” dives deep into the persistent image problem facing Democrats: Why are they broadly seen as downers or “scolds,” and how can they find a more joyful, relatable, and big-tent appeal—especially going into the next election cycle? The hosts navigate recent election wins, the unique energy in Democratic campaigns, building broad coalitions, and the challenge of projecting economic populism and authenticity. Special guest Senator Chris Murphy joins for a candid conversation about the Democratic Party's future, messaging challenges, and lessons from Tuesday’s big wins and setbacks.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

The "Democrats Are No Fun" Problem

• Opening Reflection ([02:21]): Dan Pfeiffer notes the historic perception shift: “Three decades ago, Trump found an audience among pretty apolitical comedians and media personalities…who see Democrats as pious and scolding. The Democratic Party is widely reviled.”
• Tim Miller’s Diagnosis ([04:43]): “You guys are kind of annoying… There’s a lot of inertia and status quo happening… It’s important to accept it and think about how we appeal to more people.”
• Fox News vs. Liberal Media ([11:44]): Jessica Tarlov explains why Fox appears more fun: “The JOY is important to the formula that makes Fox so appealing…They’re not taking themselves that seriously. They’re not scolding each other.”

Notable Quotes

• Jessica Tarlov ([12:49]): “Because we have this kind of uniform policy of stay in line, it’s joyless. You can’t feel free to criticize somebody… The Republicans…go about their business in a way that we don’t.”

• Hasan Piker ([14:43]): “If I had to sit next to Jesse Watters and Greg Buttfelt the entire time, I would kill myself. And the fact that you have been able to successfully sit in that room every day and just white knuckle through Jesse Waters’ snide ass remarks is impressive. It is.”

The “Woke, Weak, Out of Touch” Branding Trap

• How Attacks Stick ([06:10]): Dan Pfeiffer questions how to counteract GOP attacks without falling into the identity politics trap or ignoring economic issues.
• Simone Sanders’ Response ([06:49]): “You cannot allow your opponent to define you and not answer… The answer is not to run away from the confrontation. You need candidates that people like and believe in—even if they think your brand is shitty.”
  • Story of John Ewing’s Omaha campaign: Focused on real issues, didn’t let trans/bathroom attacks overtake the campaign.

Quote

• Simone Sanders ([09:44]): “The brand was poopoo, [yet] people voted for Democrats anyway…People are willing to support candidates even if they think your brand is shitty.”

On Moderation vs. Bold Messaging

• Pushback on Moderation ([10:14]): Hasan Piker criticizes "do the same, go moderate" advice: “I knew there was no way moderate enough. That was what the issue was.”
• Brand vs. Candidates ([10:31]): Discussion reveals ongoing struggle for Democrats where the party is disliked, but their individual candidates can win if authentic and engaging (see Zoran Mamdani’s campaign for example).

Joy, Community, and Political Energy

• Community as the Antidote ([18:48]):
  • Dan Pfeiffer: “What we saw in New York feels like an antidote to some of this problem. Zoran Mamdani is having fun... finding community in politics.”
  • Hasan Piker ([19:40]): Shares DNC experience: “I actually found myself feeling a sense of anxiety…Why is everybody just, like, celebrating like we’re at the end zone here when it is not a guarantee?”

Economic Populism & The Five-Point Plan

• Hasan’s Policy Wish List ([31:17]):
  • Medicare for All
  • Massive housing expansion/socialized housing
  • Federal jobs guarantee & jobs program
  • Free college, education improvements
• These are what he sees as kitchen-table, "working-class" issues, not culture war distractions.

Running Where You Are: Localizing the Message

• Jessica Tarlov ([29:41]): Not every Democrat can build a massive platform—the party has to empower diverse voices representing their local districts.
• Simone Sanders ([32:26], [34:49]): On the limits of universal messages: “Candidates have to run for the race that they’re in.” Warns against compromising on core values, especially for marginalized groups.

The Trump Factor: Populism, Media, and Authenticity

• Tim Miller & Simone Sanders ([35:22+]): Robust debate on how Trump is able to "triple down" on very unpopular or extreme ideas, yet keep a loyal, enthusiastic base. How? Authenticity, boldness, even while being "fascist." Democrats, in contrast, lack figures able to project joy and confidence while holding the big tent together.

• Hasan Piker ([37:37]): Critiques Democrats for failing to robustly counter Republican misinformation on immigration and crime: “There is not enough of a robust defense mechanism out there. And that’s the reason why people end up believing this bullshit and then they get shocked when it’s actually implemented.”

Authenticity and Message Ownership

• The Bernie/AOC Secret Sauce ([42:03]): “Barack Obama didn’t run from the left. He ran against Washington. Bill Clinton had that kind of momentum. But right now, that energy and connection is coming from the left.”
• Bernie’s Confidence ([42:51]): Bernie can say things out of the mainstream and voters still trust his intent because “everyone knows what Bernie Sanders stands for.”

Quote

• Dan Pfeiffer ([43:22]): “He [Bernie] can answer in a way that maybe riles some of the base, but you trust him. And that to me is the connection between…are we having fun…and the actual hard work of politics.”

Lessons from Zoran Mamdani’s Campaign

• Focus on Real Issues, Build Community, and Communicate Clearly
  • Mamdani focused obsessively on affordability, listened to constituents, and built a sense of belonging and joy in his campaign—even moderating his media presentation when needed ([44:33]-[47:23]).
  • He was able to counter negative portrayals (anti-Semitism, for example) by listening and “being persuasive to bring more people into his coalition” ([44:33]).

The Big Tent (and Its Discontents)

• How to Keep the Coalition Together ([55:49]): Dan Pfeiffer and Jessica Tarlov dissect Chuck Schumer’s fear of association with the left flank; how Dems can embrace a big-tent approach without losing vulnerable moderates.
• Jessica Tarlov ([56:26]): “All the candidates that won were affordability candidates…We all got to the place where they thought the Democrats want us to have more housing and more money in our pockets, and the Republicans have been dicking us over.”

Senator Chris Murphy in Conversation (Live at Crooked Con)

Opening Reflections on the Election ([69:39])

• Sen. Murphy: “Democracy is, for the time being, still alive and well… People want an opposition party willing to stand up and fight in this country. It is not coincidental that we got that big victory at the first moment when the Democratic Party is showing real resolve.”

Lessons for Democrats: How to Win Everywhere?

• ”Three Big Ideas” ([73:22]):
  1. Tell a Strong Narrative: Not just solutions, but a story about who’s screwing you (corporate, billionaire class), and how Dems will shift power to regular people.
  2. Become a Big-Tent Party Again: Nominate candidates who might not align on every issue, but can draw in more voters on core economic/democracy issues.
  3. Invest in Permanent Mobilization: Stop wasting money on ephemeral ads; build permanent messaging and ground game (the GOP does this better).

Notable Quote

• Sen. Murphy ([73:22]): “It’s not a mistake that the only person in our party that draws crowds of 50,000, 60,000, 70,000 is Bernie Sanders and AOC…You have to tell a story… about shifting power from people who have too much to those who don’t have enough.”

Zoran Mamdani’s Campaign: Model for the Future?

• Murphy’s Analysis ([76:36]): “You couldn’t ask him a question that he didn’t answer by talking about the cost of living… If you don’t have one or two things a voter vehemently disagrees with, they get suspicious of you… If you aren’t authentic…you are not electable as a Democrat in this country today.”

Economy vs. Democracy: The Same Story

• Murphy’s Synthesis ([86:47]): “I don’t think of it as two different stories…What is [Trump’s] goal? …to turn the federal government into a vehicle to enrich himself and his billionaire friends… The only way he gets away with that is to destroy the democracy.”
• Dems shouldn’t cede the “reform” narrative—they can be the party fighting to reform, not just defend, the status quo.

On Preventing Election Theft and Future Strategy

• Key Measures: Invest in pro-democracy local and state leaders, pressure/collaborate with social media companies on election integrity, and keep grassroots protest and civic engagement high ([91:02]).
• Protest as Safeguard: “If 3% of a population is engaged in regular protest, it just becomes the secret sauce which puts enough sand in the gears to protect your democracy from destruction.”

Timestamps for Key Moments

• [02:21] Democrats’ “annoying image” and the Clinton ‘92 paradigm shift
• [06:49] Simone Sanders on Omaha race – running on local issues
• [11:44] Watching Fox News for fun: Joy and energy in GOP media
• [18:48] The DNC, sense of community, and what excites the base
• [31:17] Hasan Piker articulates a populist five-point plan
• [34:49] Simone Sanders on not compromising core values
• [42:03] Lack of charismatic figures outside the left flank
• [55:49] The tension of the “big tent” and Chuck Schumer’s approach
• [69:39] Sen. Chris Murphy: Democrats need to be a fighting, big-tent, story-telling party
• [73:22] Murphy’s three big ideas for growing the party’s footprint
• [76:36] Zoran Mamdani’s campaign as a case study in focus and authenticity
• [86:47] Blending democracy and economic messaging

Episode’s Most Memorable Quotes

“People are willing to support candidates even if they think your brand is shitty.”
—Simone Sanders ([09:44])

“Because we have this kind of uniform policy of stay in line, it’s joyless.”
—Jessica Tarlov ([12:49])

“If you don’t have one or two things a voter vehemently disagrees with, they get suspicious of you.”
—Sen. Chris Murphy ([76:36])

“Have some fuckin’ balls, like, run a fuckin’ campaign… tell us what your campaign is about. Don’t be a fascist. And be able to talk and be able to communicate to people and lift them up…”
—Tim Miller ([64:10])

Final Insights & Takeaways

• The Democratic Party’s persistent image problem is not about policy alone, but about energy, communication, authenticity, and community—a sense that it’s “no fun” to be a Democrat.
• The path forward, according to panelists, is focusing relentlessly on real issues—especially economic and affordability concerns—while building a coalition that tolerates discomfort and disagreement, and is locally rooted.
• Candidates who listen, bring joy, and aren’t afraid to stand for something—even if controversial—can succeed (see Mamdani in NYC).
• Democrats must offer a reform agenda, not merely a “defense of democracy as it is,” to re-energize disaffected voters.
• To win and govern in an era of Trumpism and culture wars, Democrats need to combine bold populism with practical, local focus, and never lose sight of strategic coalition-building.

For Further Listening

• The episode is a must for Democrats and anyone interested in political strategy, movement-building, and how authentic engagement might be the answer to breaking through messaging traps and reshaping the party’s brand.