D.C. Reacts to Biden's Cancer News

Summary

Pod Save America: Episode Summary – "D.C. Reacts to Biden's Cancer News"

Release Date: May 20, 2025

In this episode of Pod Save America, hosts Jon Lovett, Tommy Vietor, and guest Dan Pfeiffer delve into the tumultuous political landscape surrounding President Joe Biden's recent diagnosis with an aggressive form of prostate cancer. The discussion navigates through the immediate reactions, underlying conspiracies, and broader implications for the American political scene.

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I. Biden's Cancer Diagnosis

[02:06] Tommy Vietor
Tommy introduces the central topic: President Biden's diagnosis of an aggressive prostate cancer that has metastasized to his bones. He highlights the unprecedented nature of the announcement amidst a contentious reelection campaign and ongoing investigations into Biden's handling of classified materials.

[02:12] Jon Lovett
Jon sets the stage by contextualizing Biden's health revelation within the broader narrative of his perceived physical decline and the timing coinciding with the release of Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson’s book, Original Sin.

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II. Public and Political Reactions

[05:05] Tommy Vietor
Tommy criticizes the dissonance in public reactions, mocking the idea of hazard pay for military doctors conducting intimate examinations.

[05:35] Jon Lovett
Jon expresses concern over the misinformation and lack of transparency regarding Biden's health, advocating for standardized disclosure forms for presidential health to enhance public trust.

[07:04] Dan Pfeiffer
Dan voices disappointment that Biden's cancer was not communicated earlier and questions the transparency surrounding his cognitive abilities, suggesting potential hidden health issues.

Notable Quote: Dan Pfeiffer
"Why wasn't the cognitive ability discussed?" [05:05]

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III. Conspiracy Theories and Media Noise

[10:38] Tommy Vietor
Tommy discusses the proliferation of conspiracy theories alleging Biden concealed his diagnosis during his presidency, referencing statements from figures like Zeke Emanuel.

[14:24] Tommy Vietor
He emphasizes the importance of separating genuine empathy from performative outrage amidst the noise of social media debates.

[14:42] Jon Favreau
Jon humorously acknowledges making questionable jokes before recording, highlighting the tension between serious discourse and lighthearted banter.

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IV. Trump's Foreign Policy and Russia/Ukraine Negotiations

[15:10] Tommy Vietor
Tommy shifts focus to former President Trump's recent claims of concluding peace negotiations with Vladimir Putin, critiquing the lack of substantive outcomes.

[16:54] Jon Favreau
Jon derides Trump's fluctuating stance on international conflicts, illustrating his inability to deliver on promised resolutions.

[17:21] Jon Lovett
Jon underscores the inefficacy of Trump's interventions, noting the escalation of conflicts despite his claims of resolving them.

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V. US Credit Rating Downgrade and Economic Implications

[20:39] Tommy Vietor
Tommy reports on Moody's downgrade of the US credit rating, exploring its causes and potential long-term effects on the economy.

[21:33] Jon Favreau
Jon critiques Republican fiscal policies, arguing that tax cuts without corresponding spending cuts exacerbate national debt and economic instability.

[24:46] Tommy Vietor
Tommy and Jon discuss the immediate consequences of the downgrade, including increased borrowing costs and the broader impact on financial institutions and consumers.

Notable Quote: Jon Lovett
"The annual cost of servicing the US Debt is $952 billion in 2025." [23:51]

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VI. Republican Economic Policies and Medicaid Cuts

[29:57] Jon Lovett
Jon addresses the Republican-led efforts to pass a budget bill that includes significant Medicaid cuts and extensions of Trump-era tax policies, expressing skepticism about its passage in the Senate.

[30:16] Jon Favreau
Jon elaborates on the fiscal irresponsibility of the bill, highlighting its long-term deficit implications and disproportionate benefits to the wealthy.

[34:09] Tommy Vietor
Tommy emphasizes the human cost of the proposed Medicaid cuts, pointing out that millions could lose their health insurance in the pursuit of tax breaks for the top 1%.

Notable Quote: Jon Lovett
"The CBO says by 2034 it could kick between 9.7 and 14.4 million people off of their health care." [34:27]

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VII. Trump's Attacks on Corporations

[19:57] Tommy Vietor
Tommy critiques Trump's aggressive stance against companies like Walmart for raising prices in response to tariffs, arguing that it ultimately harms consumers and small businesses.

[25:36] Jon Lovett
Jon questions the practicality of Trump's approach, likening it to contradictory policies previously touted by Democrats.

Notable Quote: Jon Favreau
"There is no winning. They do what he says, we lose. They don't do what he says, we lose." [26:38]

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VIII. Supreme Court and the Alien Enemies Act

[37:55] Tommy Vietor
Tommy updates listeners on the Supreme Court's decision to extend the government's use of the Alien Enemies Act, allowing deportations without due process, a move criticized as an overreach of executive power.

[40:48] Tommy Vietor
He recounts testimonies and reports revealing the government's plan to deport individuals to unstable regions like Libya, highlighting the inhumane implications of such policies.

Notable Quote: Jon Favreau
"It's completely ok to revoke the status from people desperately fleeing political instability and violence." [52:24]

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IX. FBI Directors' Interview and Deep State Claims

[54:33] Tommy Vietor
Tommy discusses the recent Fox interview with FBI Director Kash Patel and Deputy Director Dan Bongino, where they alleged being compromised by the "deep state" and downplayed high-profile cases like Jeffrey Epstein's death.

[56:36] Jon Lovett
Jon criticizes the conspiratorial remarks made by Patel and Bongino, pointing out their previous roles in promoting unfounded theories and their current positions of authority.

[62:44] Jon Favreau
Jon expresses frustration over the officials’ attempts to connect unrelated events to justify their narrative, emphasizing the lack of evidence behind their claims.

Notable Quote: Dan Pfeiffer
"In some of these cases, the there you're looking for is not there." [54:56]

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X. Upcoming Events and Final Remarks

[68:31] Jon Favreau
Jon promotes upcoming fundraisers supporting immigrant defense organizations, underscoring the show's commitment to activism.

[69:30] Tommy Vietor
Tommy announces the launch of new merchandise and highlights the revamped Crooked Store, encouraging listeners to support their causes through purchases.

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Conclusion

In this episode, Pod Save America navigates the complex and often contentious reactions to President Biden's cancer diagnosis, intertwining it with broader political maneuvers by Republicans and the former President Donald Trump. The hosts critically examine the implications of policy decisions, the erosion of trust in government institutions, and the pervasive influence of conspiracy theories in shaping public discourse.

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Notable Quotes:

• "Why wasn't the cognitive ability discussed?" — Dan Pfeiffer [05:05]

• "The CBO says by 2034 it could kick between 9.7 and 14.4 million people off of their health care." — Jon Lovett [34:27]

• "There is no winning. They do what he says, we lose. They don't do what he says, we lose." — Jon Favreau [26:38]

• "In some of these cases, the there you're looking for is not there." — Dan Pfeiffer [54:56]

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Listen to the full episode on YouTube or your preferred podcast platform every Tuesday and Friday.

Transcript

[Jon Favreau]

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[Jon Lovett]

Watch your back Jack.

[Tommy Vitor]

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[Jon Lovett]

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[Tommy Vitor]

New members only within 14 days. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.

[Jon Lovett]

I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Tommy Vitor.

[Tommy Vitor]

Lots to get through today. Trump's call with Putin, America's credit downgrade, Republicans making even deeper Medicaid cuts, another Supreme Court ruling against Trump, Cash, Patel and Dan Bongino being compromised by the deep state. And Trump lashing out at everyone from Bob Iger and Taylor Swift to Bruce Springsteen and Beyonce. But we should start with the very sad news that Joe Biden has been diagnosed with an aggressive form of prostate cancer that has spread to his bones. In a normal world, everyone would react to this news by sending thoughts and prayers to President Biden and his family, and that would be that. That is obviously not the world we live in. Biden's diagnosis comes in the middle of a news cycle about the extent of his decline in office and his decision to run for reelection in 2024, which is chronicled in Original Sin, the new book by Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson that is now out today. On Friday, the Trump administration also released the full audio of Biden's interview with special prosecutor Robert Hur as part of the investigation into his handling of classified material. And even though we didn't learn anything new that wasn't already in the transcript, it is striking to hear how frail and tired and sometimes confused Biden sounded. All of this is to say that when the news broke about Biden's cancer, it led to all sorts of questions, conspiracies, criticisms, and some pretty gross reactions. Don Jr. And plenty of other MAGA pundits have accused Biden and the first lady of covering up the diagnosis while he was in the White House. Our old pal Dean Phillips, the Democrat who mounted a late primary challenge to Biden, told the New York Times that he doesn't think it's, quote, coincidental that this was announced the week that Jake and Alex's book dropped. And Donald Trump, who posted an uncharacteristically supportive message, quote, wishing Joe a fast and successful recovery, end quote, right after the news broke, changed his tune when asked about it on Monday.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think it's very sad, actually. I'm surprised that it wasn't, you know, the public wasn't notified a long time ago because to get to stage nine, that's a long time. I just had my physical. You saw that. You saw the results of that particular test. I think that test is standard to pretty much anybody getting a physical, good physical. We had the doctors at the White House and over at Walter Reed, which is a fantastic hospital. I do it. I did a very complete physical, including cognitive test. I'm proud to announce I aced it. Got them all. I got them. All right. The auto pen is becoming a very big deal. You know, the auto pen is becoming a big deal because it seems like that maybe was the president who ever operated the auto pit. But when they say that that was not good, they also, you know, you have to look and you have to say that the test was not so good either. In other words, there are things going on that the public wasn't informed. And I think somebody's going to have to Speak to his doctor if it's the same or even if it's two separate doctors, why wasn't the cognitive ability. Why wasn't that discussed?

[Tommy Vitor]

Just a great topic to riff on. They're just sad and terrible all around.

[Jon Favreau]

Do you think you get hazard pay for being the military doctor has to put a finger in Trump's butt? That's how complete the physical is.

[Tommy Vitor]

Wow.

[Jon Favreau]

It would be part of it.

[Tommy Vitor]

Wow. Wow, wow, wow, wow. There is, of course, no stage nine. It's stage four. It was a Gleason score of nine. But, you know, we won't nitpick Trump's statement there.

[Jon Lovett]

Details.

[Tommy Vitor]

All right, guys, what are your reactions to both the news and the fallout so far?

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, look, obviously it's scary and awful for his family, and I hope the treatment's effective. And I also hope the story pushes other men to get prostate exams because it's very important. I think days like this are when you wish social media never existed and didn't currently exist. Right. You get the narcissist sort of saying the shittiest things they can imagine to make it about themselves and then argue with people. You have the instant experts. We got half of Twitter. We have the amateur oncologists who are certain they know how to interpret the diagnosis. And then you have the conspiracy folks who I would include our president, I guess, who are trying to decide if the diagnosis was covering up the her report or the Tapper book or. But they're positive it's a cover up of something. And, you know, obviously the lack of trust here around the diagnosis and with President Biden talking about his health is self inflicted because people feel like there was a lack of candor around his health going into the reelection. One good that could come from this. I was trying to think of something good that could come from this. Would be if there was some sort of reform or law that was passed that mandates some sort of independent disclosure from the president's position. Like it's a joke that we are relying on these letters from Trump's doctor that say he has the height and weight of an NFL wide receiver. Right. Like, I know that there's a lot of sensitivity here about a president's relationship with their position. Would that create disincentives to get care if you thought it had to be released, But I don't know. There should be a form that is standardized, that it goes out that tells us the health of our president or maybe even major party nominees.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, there's sort of two kinds of reactions that you See, now, one is a kind of, like, performative offense. And saying this diagnosis means that anyone that was critical of Biden's decision to stay in the race or anyone who believes that the conversation we need to have is being ghoulish and disgusting, which is a performance of empathy and claiming something is disgusting because you are showing that you are disgusted. And then you have on the other side a kind of, I don't know, like a way of proving your bona fides by demonstrating you don't have compassion, as if compassion is some kind of concession to Joe Biden's politics or policies. I think that's what you see with J.D. vance, who it is a part of his view that the left uses emotion and empathy as a cudgel and as a weapon. And so you demonstrate your seriousness by proving that even now, even in this first few out 48 hours after learning this information, we need to have this conversation about Joe Biden's fitness. And to me, it's like, okay, like, is it that hard to just sort of step back and say, this is a sad moment and this is a debate we still have to have? But you can also reflect on the fact that this is a human being and a family, and it's a serious thing. And a lot of people are going through cancer and they will see themselves in the coverage of this story. And there's nothing wrong with taking a moment to be kind of circumspect about that without allowing the fact that there is a real person involved to mean we can't in the coming days, weeks and months, make sure that we are learning the lessons of what happened in 2024.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah. I think it's also important just to go through what we know and what we've been told by oncologists and experts in the Biden family just to. Because, you know, there are all these conspiracies out there. Did he have the cancer? Did they know about this diagnosis while he was in the White House? Right. That is a question a lot of people are asking. And some people have just decided that he obviously did. Right on the right, Zeke Emanuel, who's Rahm's brother and was a Obama Biden administration official and specializes in breast cancer. So he's an oncologist, though not prostate. He said he's like, oh, there's no doubt that a cancer this aggressive has been there for a while. And Joe Biden had it while he was in the White House. Well, that can be true. But also, he could not have known about the diagnosis and in fact, men who are over 70 sometimes don't get the prostate exam. They just don't test them for that, partly because, you know, they're getting up in age, and if they find one cancer, then they might have to treatment, and the treatment may be worse. There's this. A whole series of medical explanations. Benjamin Maeser, who's a physician, wrote in the Atlantic today. It's not surprising, he said, that this happened because many cancers are just discovered out of the blue. We talked to someone. Our producer has a friend who's an oncologist at Sloan Kettering, who said, yeah, they just wouldn't have tested for that. Now you can ask, well, he's the President of the United States. Why wouldn't they have tested him for that? But it's not completely surprising.

[Jon Lovett]

My view on all the discussion of the diagnosis is I'll pass. I don't know. And I'm not going to judge. And I'm not asking you to take the White House's word for it, and I'm not asking you to. I'm not trying to disabuse anyone. I just think, like, if Biden was trying to spin away damaging reports about his health, I'm not sure releasing a cancer diagnosis would be the most effective tactic. I think people should just investigate that theory of the case.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah. I want to say, you know what I mean? Like, I have no idea either. Right. Like, nothing at this point would surprise me about anything, but you just have to, like, think to yourself it's a little illogical. Yeah. So the nodule was found six days ago. There were reports about that. It was last week, that there was a nodule and they were gonna test further. Right. So they released the information that there was a nodule found in an exam. Then six days later, they had the biopsy and they gave us the results. Also, remember, I forgot about this, but In February of 23, he had a cancerous lesion on his chest. He had a basal cell carcinoma that was removed, and that was immediately, you know, released and told everyone. So it just. I don't know why you would cover up your cancer diagnosis to keep serving as opposed to just getting treatment right away for your aggressive cancer.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, we want treatment. It also sounds like the White House is trying to use this as a pretext to invalidate things that Joe Biden did, because they're suggesting that having undiagnosed or diagnosed prostate cancer means you thus use the auto pen more often.

[Jon Favreau]

He's just using it as a hook. He's Using it as a hook to get back to his claim that, you know, worst case. Right. Let's say we learn, actually, Joe Biden was diagnosed with cancer and didn't tell anybody. And that's terrible. That doesn't make him more or less fit to do the job. While, I mean, it would certainly be an indictment on his decision to run again, but with absolutely nothing to do with whether or not he was copus mentis in signing the documents.

[Jon Lovett]

Right, but this is what.

[Tommy Vitor]

This is why you have to just dig like, an inch into this before you like the press. No one is suggesting that the prostate cancer has anything to do with decline or making you unable to. Like, that's. That's not what people are suggesting. Right.

[Jon Lovett]

Foiling.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. It's just, I think, look, there's an.

[Tommy Vitor]

Entirely separate conversation that people were having before this diagnosis about his decision to run again and potential decline over the last couple years in the White House, for sure. But, like, not everything has to be connected.

[Jon Favreau]

Not everything has to be connected, and not everything has to be about the set of issues or topics you're interested in and talking about every single day. And, you know, and. And I just like this idea that, like, you. That you prove how assured you are and powerful and strong you are in your views by like, saying, like, you know, every. I'm gonna piss on Joe Biden's grave. That's how much I care about Gaza. It's like, what are you fucking talking about? Like, what does that prove? What does that prove to anybody?

[Tommy Vitor]

Right. And again, like, there is a. Especially as when we head towards 2028 and we're trying to nominate the presidential candidate, There is a whole conversation to be had about how 2024 was handled. We've had it before. We can have it again. It's okay not to have it the day after the guy gets a cancer diagnosis. Yeah, there's no. There's no rush.

[Jon Favreau]

Yes, I think that's right. I also, there is a, like, a certain kind of, like. It reminds me of when, whenever there were, like, mass shootings, there would be this kind of clutch of conservatives that would be like, how dare you talk about gun control? The bodies are not yet buried, you ghouls. And there is a strain of that on the left of, like, trying to basically, like, silence views they already disagreed with that have been kind of beating their chest about for weeks before this.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I. I have no.

[Jon Favreau]

The.

[Jon Lovett]

The, like, why are we talking about this when we should be talking about that Takes. Drive me crazy. It's like, we can do both. There's unlimited tweets. It doesn't come with a cap, a governor, but also it does bring out the performative edgelords like you were referencing there. Love it. And it's usually from people who are trying to build an audience on the back of their self righteous preening about a cause that is very important but will in no way be advanced by whatever it is they're actually saying in that moment. And I'm not trying to tone police anyone, like, say what you want about politicians, we certainly do. But like the people who live on the Internet, I think get used to speaking about other human beings in a way that is dehumanizing and detached from reality and that they would never say in person. And you end up saying things that I think chip away at your soul and your humanity. And I would just ask, like, look inward, say whatever the fuck you want. I don't care. You do you.

[Tommy Vitor]

But like, come on, humans are complicated and life is complicated. And it is completely okay to say that you are genuinely sorry for someone and hope that they recover and are wishing them the best and have deep disagreements with their policies or their behavior. That's okay. It's possible to do all of those things.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. By the way, like, I feel that conflict. Like I have made just, just. I have made some pretty awful jokes today, but just to get them out before we start recording. Jesus Christ, I have guns. Deal with it. You heard him. You laughed. Sorry. Not going to share them.

[Tommy Vitor]

Just for us now. Now you get the, you get the downside of people knowing you make jokes without the upside of them hearing the funny. That's part of it.

[Jon Favreau]

That's for the best. I don't know how big.

[Jon Lovett]

That's the day.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah, same, same. I don't know what he's talking about.

[Jon Favreau]

Oh, yeah.

[Tommy Vitor]

All right, let's talk about Biden's successor, who is the president. He had a newsy Monday. Trump announced in a truth social post that he just concluded a two hour phone call with Vladimir Putin and that the result was that Russia and Ukraine will now begin peace negotiations. Though he didn't offer any real details. He just went on about the US Doing lots of business in Russia and in Ukraine once the war is over. That's what's important. Ending the post. Let the process begin. Tommy, what's your sense of how real this is?

[Jon Lovett]

I mean, I mean, my takeaway was that he was just kind of wiping his hands at the whole thing, being like, all right, you guys, he's gone from I will End the war in 24 hours to you guys. Figure it out. Maybe the Vatican can help. Maybe JD Will come over again. I don't really care what he's up to, but do you then if you read the Putin readout, he is talking about the need to, quote, eliminate the root causes of this crisis, which is code for him regurgitating all his maximalist demands, like denazification of the Ukrainian government, territorial demands. I mean, he wants the Russians attended at a much lower level, a set of peace talks with Ukraine in Istanbul last week. And basically they're saying we want to continue to occupy and fully control 20% of Ukrainian territory. So, you know, it's just, it's just worth noting that, like, Trump has not ended the war in Ukraine. Things are actually worse because we've not sent them additional military funding. The Russians are, you know, launching these barrages of missiles and drones every single night. They're killing civilians every single night. When you look at Gaza, things are as bad there, if not worse, than they've ever been. Gaza's been under siege for two months. The airstrikes are relentless. The IDF is now starting a ground invasion. So he solved none of the international problems he told us he would solve. Within hours of taking office, it's, you.

[Jon Favreau]

Know, you're Pope Leo. You're still figuring out how your email works. Still figuring out which is the best bathroom to use when you're on your way to the office and you get. You're like, I'm sorry, what am I supposed to solve for you now? It is amazing, right? He said, I can solve this in 24 hours. Then he said, oh, that was just hyperbole, but I'm still the one to solve it. He goes, a two hour phone call. Two hour phone call. He comes out of, he's like, jeez, this is fucking complicated. He actually says, like, honestly, they need to work it out themselves because some of this stuff is so complicated, only they know the details.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

And maybe the Vatican can handle it. Just throwing like, just. That is wild.

[Tommy Vitor]

It's like when he, you know, the only pressure Putin has gotten from Trump is Vladimir, stop. In a. Yeah. In a true social post from a couple of weeks ago. So I don't know why Putin would really change his behavior.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, it's dark.

[Jon Favreau]

And just the other part of it, too, is that. Right. This is a war that Vladimir Putin started. The only reason Ukraine has been able to survive is because of us. Backing Donald Trump is not saying that the US Will continue to support Ukraine until there's peace. He's not saying anything to show that he would have Ukraine's back. That's a great sign for Putin, who's now making these outrageous demands. So he's just giving up the game and walking away.

[Tommy Vitor]

Do we think the fact that Zelensky and J.D. vance met without J.D. vance screaming at him at the, at the Pope's inaugural mass as a is a good sign?

[Jon Lovett]

Maybe. I kind of doubt it, though. I mean, I do think they're going to walk away. I mean, Marco Rubio has been saying this for a couple of days. It's like they won't, you know, get serious and start these talks and we're just going to move on to things that are more important. Like, well, have you tried pressuring both sides and not just the Ukrainian side that might help things?

[Jon Favreau]

Vance also called it, I think it's on the plane today. He called it Biden's war, which is, I think, a really dispiriting sign.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yes, certainly. One thing you can't pin on Biden.

[Jon Lovett]

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[Tommy Vitor]

USAA knows Dynamic Duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With usaa, you can bundle your auto and home and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to Learn more and get a'@usaa.com bundle restrictions apply. It's a big week for the Trump Republican plan to make America poor again. On Friday, Moody's became the last of the big three credit firms to downgrade the US's credit rating, citing our country's rising deficit. Collect them all, Fitch. We got the Fitch downgrade. We got the. What was the other one? Anyway, there's one more rating agency that I'm forgetting. Anyway, all three, we have. All three have downgraded us.

[Jon Lovett]

Nice.

[Tommy Vitor]

This news followed the comments from Walmart CEO in an earnings call that Trump's tariffs would forced the retail chain to raise prices. That did not go over so well with Trump, who demanded that Walmart, quote, eat the tariffs in a truth social screed where he warned the company, quote, I'll be watching and so will your customers. All of which sounded very much like the threats Trump has made against companies like Amazon and Mattel. Treasury Secretary Scott Besant hit a couple of the Sunday shows to try and clean things up.

[Jon Lovett]

Walmart will be absorbing some of the tariffs.

[Tommy Vitor]

Some may get passed on to consumers. If we go back to your initial question on the Moody's downgrade, who cares?

[Jon Favreau]

Qatar doesn't, Saudi doesn't.

[Jon Lovett]

UAE doesn't. It's standard and poor is the third one standard.

[Tommy Vitor]

Tommy. Thank you, Tommy. Anyone want to wade into whether any of these credit ratings are in fact a big deal?

[Jon Favreau]

Look, we've obviously revealed ourselves to be experts.

[Tommy Vitor]

Say we, we, we went through something similar in the Obama administration in 2011.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, I think we've revealed ourselves to be experts on it. Look, I don't. It's what the impact is of a specific ratings downgrade. Like it's not a surprise that the House Republicans are on a path to dramatically increase the deficit or that the United States has become the world's richest basket case. So it's like, are they really telling people anything they didn't know about whether or not the US is a reliable country to lend money to? But I do think it's part of bigger problem, which is Donald Trump is just spending our credibility. He's just spending it. And we have some protection from the fact that we are an incredibly wealthy country, that we have a lot of goodwill, that we have a lot of countries that have trusted us for a long time. And it's very difficult to unwind a relationship with the United States in a variety of ways, whether you're a business or a country. But it's imperiling us in the long term. And I think we talk a lot about the chaos that Donald Trump has caused and the volatility that Donald Trump has caused. But what we're seeing Republicans do right now is the same thing that they've done for decades, which is clamor about deficits, clamor about debt. But when they get into power, they pass massive tax cuts. They don't want to pay for them, and they leave the mess for others to clean up in the hopes that it forces cuts to government spending by more responsible people. That'll come later. And what this downgrade says, what a lot of experts say, is there's only so long you can do that. You can't do that forever. We are not in a financial crisis right now. We are not in a moment where we need the government to spend a vast amount of money to prop up the economy in an emergency. But that could come. That could come. And it'll be harder and worse if we are living in a deficit created by massive tax cuts for the rich. And the other part of it that I do think is important is it's another we are like Republicans took this information and started lying about it. So you have Steve Scalise, who's right now one of the people running point to pass this massive reconciliation bill that will balloon the deficit by $3 trillion. And he's saying this Moody's downgrade is a reminder about why we have to pass this bill. We have to get our fiscal house in order, which is exactly what we're trying to do. And so he is just going out to the cameras and fucking lying about what they're doing.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I mean, I'm personally a Fitch guy, so he's a Fitch guy. I mean, what Moody's is doing is they're looking at the creditworthiness of the US Government to pay back debt. And I guess Scott Besson doesn't think the slide From AAA to AA1 is a big deal. But in practice, riskier bonds have to pay higher yields, which means they cost us more to issue. And I think the 30 year treasury is now over 5%. So it'll cost the United States more to borrow money. And that also pushes up the benchmark that is used for banks when they issue mortgages or car loans, which is going to make everything more expensive for everyone. And certain financial institutions or pension funds can only invest in the lowest risk assets. And that can have a ripple effect. And I think right now, the annual cost of servicing the US Debt, like the interest payments we pay on our debt, is $952 billion in 2025. Like our debt is really expensive right now.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah, it is a, it is a very, very bad situation, I think.

[Jon Favreau]

Right. The, the, the, the downgrade itself, what's the impact of that? Who knows? But it reflects a growing problem which is we are gonna borrow more money and it's gonna cost us more to borrow more money as people doubt whether or not in the long run they can trust us to be a country that repays our debts. Especially when you have all of these sort of right wing kind of intellectuals running around claiming there's a secret method to Donald Trump's madness and there's gonna be something like the Mar A Lago records and he's gonna try to downgrade, you know, get, get a deal on our debt and downgrade our debt to kind of do this massive realignment, all this crap. And all of it adds up to mortgage rates being higher.

[Tommy Vitor]

So on the Walmart thing, it seems like Trump's strategy to deal with the higher prices that are directly related to his trade war is going to be to just blame U.S. companies. How well do you think that'll work?

[Jon Lovett]

It's a lot of phone calls.

[Jon Favreau]

So I think there's like two. So there's the just sort of like kind of obscene like hypocrisy of Republicans claiming that Democrats are going to do price controls and then Donald Trump trying to kind of browbeat and buttonhole these companies into keeping their prices lower. But this is the kind of thing where if Walmart does pass on the price to consumers, that's terrible for consumers. That's just a terrible thing. It's a self inflicted wound. It makes life worse for the American people. It raises costs when he promised lower costs. But let's say it works. Let's say he does successfully bully some giant companies into eating some of the costs because they can afford to do it. Great. What about the small companies that can't do that? What about all the companies that are going to deal with the rising cost of tariffs that don't have the market power of a Walmart or an Amazon to go to the suppliers and kind of force them to eat the cost? They'll just be at a greater disadvantage to the big companies and than what they already were kind of dealing with for, for years, if not decades. So to me this is just like there's, there's no winning. They do what he says, we lose. They don't do what he says, we lose.

[Jon Lovett]

It just seems completely impractical. I mean, you can't do this Every time someone has to increase a price of something because of tariff like, what are you talking about? Also, I saw people suggesting that what Trump is doing here is the same as what Democrats were saying during COVID about companies price gouging.

[Tommy Vitor]

I was waiting for someone to make that point. I hadn't seen that.

[Jon Lovett]

I saw it everywhere.

[Tommy Vitor]

And I was like, waiting for that.

[Jon Lovett]

Except, guys, in this case, the government took an action, in this case, tariffs that is causing prices to go up. And Trump is saying, okay, you eat the costs, Walmart or whatever. Whereas during COVID prices went up because of supply chain disruptions. And then the supply chain disruptions went away, but the prices stayed up. So Democrats said, you're price gouging. They're very different things, in my view.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah. And the big difference in the first one was it happened everywhere in the world.

[Jon Lovett]

Right.

[Tommy Vitor]

And this is just solely due to Donald Trump, who, by the way, I remember hearing from him and everyone in the administration that tariffs are not taxes on anyone in the US Tariffs are just about hitting China with tariffs, they're hitting other countries and that are ripping us off and they're gonna have to pay. And these other countries are paying us so much. But I guess now Trump is acknowledging that it is a tax on US Companies. And when you raise taxes on US Companies, they're either gonna respond by cutting into their profits, not hiring as many people or raising prices, or probably some combination of all three of those things.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. The suppliers are bills bear some of the costs. The companies like Walmart will bear some of the costs, and consumers will bear some of the costs. What's the ratio going to be? I don't know. That's what BEST is basically admitting that that's the only way that this can go.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

And we just, we don't know how it will shake out. Do I think it's probably a little bit effective for Donald Trump to kind of yell at these companies? Probably. But somebody's going to pay. Like, it's just. It's going to happen.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah. And I think for like, in terms of voters, I don't think that voters are suddenly going to be like, oh, yeah, Walmart's really screwing us right now. Like, everyone knows about the trade war. Trump has made it his signature economic policy and he has the power to lower the prices by ending the tariffs.

[Jon Favreau]

I don't remember. I remember Joe Biden getting a lot of largesse when prices were up because of a once in a generation, once in a century global pandemic. People hold the administration accountable for the economy, full stop.

[Jon Lovett]

But also, I think this became public because the CEO or some. Someone at the company said it during an earnings call.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah, right.

[Jon Lovett]

So they can. So the CEO has to disclose this on a quarterly earnings call. Donald Trump calls, yells at him, he says, oh, yes, sir, of course, sir. No problem, sir. And then a week or two later, just quietly raise prices. Don't announce, like, give me a break. Yeah, they're a corporation.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah. One thing that certainly won't help bring down deficits or prices. Trump's big, beautiful bill that finally passed the House Budget Committee after Republicans made it worse in order to appease the hardliners in their caucus who had blocked the bill from moving forward. Last week, they basically, the changes are, they moved up the timeline to kick people off Medicaid, they increased some fees for people on Medicaid, and they cut even more clean energy investments that Biden had passed. And Democrats, of course, the hardliners say they're still not happy. So negotiations are continuing, though the House is still aiming to pass this thing by Memorial Day. Trump's apparently gonna be meeting with Congressional Republicans at the Capitol on Tuesday. As you're listening to this. So I wanna know what happened to all those House Republicans in competitive districts who are worried about Medicaid cuts. They just going to swallow all these changes now?

[Jon Lovett]

They should remain worried. I mean, there's a C9 poll the other day that 76% oppose major spending cuts in Medicaid. That includes 79% of independents and 55% of Republicans. Like, and the reason is 62% of Democrats and Republicans were on Medicaid or knew someone close to them who were on Medicaid. It's a very personal thing for people.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. Four Republicans voted present, which would be enough Republicans to sink it. Those are the hardliners, but those would be enough to sink it on the House floor right now. It is a. Like, you had Massie posting earlier today about just how much this adds to the debt. He's saying it adds, I think he said 10 trillion. It's like, that's like a. That's double even what the estimates would be if you fully extend it. But whatever the fact that it's $3.3 trillion in deficits, before you add what happens if you extend the provisions, they sunset. Which means they've, they've written this bill to claim it only adds over 3 trillion to the debt over years. But in reality, they have a bunch of stuff that just goes away after three or four years because they assume political pressure will Force it to be extended in the future, just like what they're trying to do now. If you add that, it's, I think, over $6 trillion in deficit, all of which basically is extending the Trump tax cuts, paid for in part by cutting Medicaid dramatically and accelerating the, the cuts to the Inflation Reduction act, which are a bunch of clean energy projects, many of which are actually already happening. Right. Like they're, they're coming in to say to stop projects that are. Or to disincentivize projects that are already happening.

[Tommy Vitor]

It's such a farce because say they get this through the House, they're going to get it over to the Senate. Senate Republicans are not going to be able to pass a bill that's as crazy as this one because they have people like Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski in their caucus. And so I think the real question comes when whatever the Senate passes, they're going to send it back to the House and try to jam the House. And then are you going to get people like Chip Roy and some of these hardliners to just say, sure, I'll take it because Donald Trump yells at them, or are they going to be like, no, fuck off.

[Jon Lovett]

I mean, if I was betting, I bet on them passing something because I just. The risk of just catastrophic failure of getting nothing done legislatively, of Donald Trump being on the hook for the tax breaks expiring and thus everyone getting a tax increase. I don't, I just. He seemed a little bit disengaged so far. I would imagine he will go ham on these guys at some point in the near future.

[Jon Favreau]

Here's what I don't know how you square like the Chip Roys of the world, they've been extremely clear about what they want. They have never wavered. They've been honest and direct about what they expect. They've never said otherwise. And this bill dramatically increases the deficit without enough cuts. Then you have the salt people that, oh, no, I'm sorry, but you do.

[Jon Lovett]

Got the Roy boys and the salt people.

[Jon Favreau]

You got the Roy boys and the salt people. And the salt people know that if the Trump tax cuts expire, the, the salt credits go back up. So it really is like a impossible political situation that I guess they get to yes on by just creating a ramming. Yeah, ramming down their throats. But I don't, I like, what I don't understand is I can see how you can get yeses from the moderates by basically having it balloon the deficit more. Right. Like that's how you get them. You get rid of some of the negative politics around Medicaid and some of these other cuts and you can get them back. I just don't know how you get enough of the right wingers back. That's what I don't understand.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah, I don't either. And they're just gonna be taking heat from a bunch of people on the right who are saying this is gonna add trillions to the deficit. And then Democrats who are gonna rightly be saying millions of people are gonna lose their health insurance so that you can give, you know, make sure that people with estates over $30 million can pass on their estate tax free to their heirs. I mean, and you know, and give like a meal, an average of a million dollars tax cut to, you know, small business owners who are doing pass throughs.

[Jon Favreau]

You have Hawley, by the way, saying he's against any Medicaid cuts. He's on the record. I mean, he'll do whatever. He'll say anything. But like, I don't know how you get to a yes on him. And the other part of it too is it is amazing how much it is just pure greed. Because they could just extend the middle class Trump tax cuts. Like there is a popular version. I mean, it would still be unpopular because of the cuts, but there is a less egregious version of this on the politics and on the merits. But they just will not entertain it.

[Tommy Vitor]

They will not change the truth of the talking point that they are going to give a trillion dollars in tax cuts just to the top 1% of people in this country. People who make over a million dollars. A trillion dollars goes to them while they kick over 10 million people off their health insurance.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

The CBO says by 2034 it could kick between 9.7 and 14.4 million people off of their health care. So that's pretty terrible. And also this bill, like these guys, when they get a tax bill in front of them, they just can't help larding it up with whatever special interest bullshit came before them. Right. So only 10% of tax filers actually itemize their deductions, but they're loading this thing up with new deductions, including $1 billion tax break for gun silencers. Very important. There's an up to $10,000 deduction for car loan interest payments available to people who buy cars, vans, campers, RVs, ATVs and motorcycles. And then there's ATVs in there.

[Tommy Vitor]

This was a Trump campaign promise. I remember.

[Jon Lovett]

And then there's a multinational corporations could get an $800 million tax cut on income in the Virgin Islands. So lots of good stuff in here for everybody.

[Tommy Vitor]

Well, if you want to help put pressure on those Republicans with tough races in 26 who will be voting on the bill, sign up for Vote Save America. You can go to the website. We have plenty of opportunities for people to get involved. Very important foreign is brought to you by Zbiotics Pre Alcohol. Let's face it, after a night with drinks, I don't bounce back the next day like I used to. Gotta make a choice. Either have a great night or a great next day. That is, until I found pre alcohol Zebiotics. Pre alcohol Probiotic is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic. It was invented by PhD scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works. When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's a buildup of this byproduct, not dehydration, that's to blame for rough days after drinking. Pre alcohol produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. Just remember to make pre alcohol your first drink of the night. Drink responsibly and you'll feel your best tomorrow. I love zebiotics. John Lovett loves zebiotics.

[Jon Favreau]

Huge fan. You just take it right before you start throwing them back and you have a nicer day the next day.

[Tommy Vitor]

Took one the other night before this guy next to me made me a pretty stiff martini.

[Jon Favreau]

You know, I don't know what went wrong on those martinis. I noticed. I really. And I was. And you know, I was like.

[Tommy Vitor]

And, you know I like to drink.

[Jon Favreau]

I know. And. And after. And Ari was like, these weren't good. And I don't know what happened. I think I got cocky. I tried to make too many at once and the ice melted.

[Tommy Vitor]

It's okay.

[Jon Favreau]

I needed more ice.

[Tommy Vitor]

I appreciate your hosting.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vitor]

Anyway, I felt great the next day because of Zebiotics, as I remembered to take it before I left the house. Summer's almost here, which means more opportunities to celebrate the warm weather. Before that, backyard barbecue brew, glass of pinot, watching the sunset at the beach, or cocktail by the campfire. Don't forget your Zebiotics Pre alcohol. Drink. Drink one before drinking and wake up feeling great and ready to take on the next day and all that summer has to offer. Go to zebiotics.com crooked to learn more and get 15% off your first order when you use Qriket at checkout. Zbiotics is back with 100% money back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money, no questions asked. Remember to head to zbiotics.com Cricut and use the code Cricut at checkout for 15% off.

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[Tommy Vitor]

All right, quick update on Trump's war on the Constitution and due process On Friday, the Supreme Court extended its hold on the administration's use of the Alien Enemies act to deport people without them being able to challenge their removal. Only Thomas and Alito dissented on process grounds, but the decision affirmed that even undocumented immigrants have due process rights, and one of those rights is being given sufficient warning. Here's a key quote from the ruling quote notice roughly 24 hours before removal, devoid of information about how to exercise due process rights to contest that removal surely does not pass muster. Trump responded with a Truth Social post in all caps saying the Supreme Court won't allow us to get criminals out of our country. He also reposted a suggestion from one of his advisors, Mike Davis, saying that the Supreme Court's ruling is, quote, illegal and that the President should, quote, house these foreign terrorists near the Chevy Chase Country Club with daytime release. That is a country club in Maryland where both John Roberts and Brett Kavanaugh belong. So the court needs to stop.

[Jon Lovett]

No bad ideas in the brainstorming.

[Tommy Vitor]

The court isn't stopping Trump from deporting criminals or deporting any non citizens so long as the administration follows the law and provides due process. Why do you think that Trump and Stephen Miller and Mike Davis and the rest of the goons just continue to lie about that?

[Jon Lovett]

So the Cato Institute. There's not a not a bunch of squishy libs over there. Pretty conservative organization. They published a review of the 240 or so Venezuelans the US sent to prison in El Salvador. They found 50 of them came to the US legally, never violated any immigration law, but were sent there anyway. And I think that speaks to the reality of the MAGA immigration project, which is to get Rid of legal immigrants, people welcomed here as refugees, people seeking asylum, people granted tps because it's not about gangs, it's not about bad apples. It's not about people who broke the law. The policy is that white people from South Africa can come and be refugees and everyone else has to go home. And all of this rhetoric is an extension of that.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, it's the fact that, like, they could pursue under what the court has already said, what every district and circuit court has already said, a plan of mass deportations. They want to force this specific issue. They want. Steve Bannon has been talking about this. All these guys are talking about. They want to force the constitutional crisis. They want an opportunity to violate a Supreme Court order. Who knows? But it seems to me to be in service of some kind of a round of deportations that allows them to grab tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people without them ever seeing a judge, without them ever having to deal with the ramifications of it. That I don't. I don't know how else you can make sense of it other than to think that that's where they want to take us.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah. There were a lot of calls again for what Stephen Miller suggested last week. Two weeks ago, I can't remember suspending habeas corpus. Mike Davis was tweeting about this because he was on the War room with Steve Bannon, and they were both talking about specifically they should do it. The administration's got to do it. Right at the end of June, when the Supreme Court justices, after they go home for a couple months and let's suspend habeas corpus in this country. Did you guys see that LA Times story that had more details about the people who are gonna get sent to Libya? So there was a Vietnamese construction worker who has lived in LA for decades with his wife and teenage daughter. I think he had years and years and years ago, some criminal conviction on his record. Same thing. There was another. There's another Filipino who was told he was gonna go back to the Philippines and be deported there. He was in detention as well. And these people were. So the construction worker, he showed up at his immigration check in, as he regularly does, because he wants to follow the rules and the laws that are here. And he goes there, they detain him, they send him to Texas, and then they tell him, wake up. You're gonna go to Libya. And he's like, what? The lawyer was like, so confused. Even one of the correction officers, when the lawyer called, was like, that can't be. That can't be Libya. And they were going to send all of these people, most of them Asian nationals, Cambodia, Philippines, Vietnamese, to Libya to just rot away in some detention center run by a warlord in eastern Libya.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

It's. It's as if they just sit around, they think, what is the cruelest thing we could possibly do? What's the scary. I mean, I think a lot of it is that this is their idea of a deterrent.

[Tommy Vitor]

I was going to say people to.

[Jon Lovett]

Libya, but Libya is not really a nation governed by any political entity right now. It's, like split in half. There's competing warlords, there's weapons everywhere, there's extremist groups. Like these people would all get killed.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vitor]

And so that study that you talked about, Tommy, like those people came here via a port of entry, which you're supposed to do when you claim asylum. You come, you see the officer say, I'm here to claim asylum. Or they had an appointment, or they already had refugee status. In some cases, they were already approved to be refugees, or someone. One of them at least was here on a tourist visa.

[Jon Lovett]

Right.

[Tommy Vitor]

These are the people that got sent to seekot.

[Jon Favreau]

The people showing up for their appointments and then being grabbed, being ruled so dangerous they can't be let out again, even though they were free. And in between appointments, they'd already had. They'd already touched the federal government. And then not just being deported, but sent to a foreign jail of some kind or prison or detention facility. I think the Supreme Court acknowledged this. That, and the fact that they're being sent to foreign prisons, from which the government, by its own admission, has no ability to kind of seek any recourse, raises the stakes even further. Donald Trump is claiming that he has secured the border, that the border is now, we have locked it up. Joe Biden left it open. I've locked it up. And that we're under the threat of.

[Jon Lovett]

And he's right about that, by the way.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

There's zero border crossings happening, basically.

[Jon Favreau]

And we are in the middle of an invasion, despite the fact that the border is closed. And there are people that are so dangerous that even though we have been, even though we know who they are and they are free in our country, once they come and talk to us, we will grab them and ship them off to a foreign prison without recourse, even though they no longer have the ability to get back in the country because the border is closed, if we deport them. It's in one of these cases that we deport people. And then the court rules they need to be brought back and they can fly back. You can go and buy a plane ticket and you can fly back, or the government can fly you back. The idea that these people that may have been here, undocumented, or may have been seeking some kind of refugee or asylum status are then not just being deported, not just being deported to a country that is not their own, but being deported to some kind of a foreign prison for a sentence without end. That is what they. They just skip right over that. Oh, all these right wingers, all these Trump goons, they're all like, oh, we can't have a country anymore because the court is stopping us from enforcing our immigration laws. Nobody's stopping them from enforcing our immigration laws. Nobody. They have created something so heinous that every court is forcing them to stop and then claiming that is preventing them from doing anything beneath that legally to address what they view as an undocumented immigration crisis.

[Jon Lovett]

These prisons, by the way, like, that people are tortured, beaten, sexually assaulted. It's like. It's horrific. Also, remember that we're also. Apparently, the Trump administration's plan is to send 1 million Palestinians in Gaza to Libya. Relocate, like, the entire Gaza Strip. So someone. I saw a report that, that in terms of, like, population proportion, that would be like, relocating 40 or 45 million people to the United States. Like, it's completely unworkable. There's no infrastructure. There's no way to take care of that number of people. But this is a serious plan that's being considered now. It's been rejected by. There's two. There's like a Western government in Tripoli, and then there's an Eastern government run by this warlord. They're both like, no, this is crazy. We're rejecting this idea. But the Israelis seem down to do it.

[Tommy Vitor]

And of all the people that they're sending to these prisons from here, the right wing is like, well, but they're all terrorists or gang members. It's like, says you, says the Trump administration without ever proving it in a court of law. They do not offer any evidence. They do not go see a judge. They don't do any of these things. They just say, we say that they're terrorists. We say that they're gang members. And of course, there are some gang members, there are some criminals, there are some violent people that they are deporting in this country. And they use those deportations and those stories to say, like, well, that means it's everyone.

[Jon Favreau]

And of course it's not. And they've just been caught in so many fucking lies. Like, the spokesperson for the Department of Homeland Security, a job that in many cases would be one where in a serious crisis would need to tell you information about what is happening is a fucking liar. She just lies all the time from that podium. She. We've been caught over and over again. They've lied about Andre Hernandez Romero. They have lied about all of these people. So you can't take them. Forget not proving it. They are lying about it. They don't care about the truth.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah. The Supreme Court did rule in Trump's favor on another immigration issue Monday. The administration can proceed for now with revoking temporary protected status TPS for Venezuelans here, legally putting nearly 350,000 more migrants at risk of deportation. Only Ketanji Brown Jackson dissented on that one. But the administration's rationale for invoking the Alien Enemies act to quickly remove Venezuelans who the government says belong to the Trende Aragua gang is really falling apart. Last week, Tulsi Gabbard fired the two members of the National Intelligence Council who wrote a report that concluded the government of Venezuela is not directing the activities of Trend Aragua, meaning it's not an invasion, meaning Trump can't invoke the Alien Enemies Act. The New York Times reported that after the report was leaked, one of Tulsi Gabbard's top aides asked the National Intelligence Council to, quote, rethink its analysis and issue a new assessment. But their assessment didn't change. So Gabbard fired the two top members of the National Intelligence Council, with the stated reason being that she's trying to end the, quote, weaponization and politicization of the intelligence community.

[Jon Lovett]

I sure she nailed that one.

[Tommy Vitor]

That sounds. That's an interesting way to stop weaponization, huh?

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. And this is some of those brazen politicization interference in the intelligence community since the Iraq war. I mean, remember the Iraq was Dick Cheney and his goons cherry picking intelligence that fit the narrative they wanted to sell about Iraq having WMD or whatever. And that meant elevating intelligence that we believe with low confidence and presenting it as dispositive while downplaying dissenting opinions. This is. This is her having a person be like, hey, I know you said you think this, but what if you thought that? And when they disagreed, they fired them. Like, that is, I don't know, it's like a new level of shocking. And also, Laura Loomer was behind this one. Laura Loomer tweeted on April 20, the NIC senior official should be fired. And then it happened. Remember Laura Loomer is this right wing freak who chained herself to the Twitter offices in New York City and was wearing a Star of David because she said she was being persecuted like the Jews during the Holocaust.

[Jon Favreau]

I just. The United States is not currently under invasion by Venezuela. I just think that's a kind of. The words have meaning, like the Trend Iraqa. I don't think, I think any. If we have gang members that are committing violent and terrible crimes in our country and are here illegally, they should be arrested and deported. Of course. But the word invasion has meaning. We're not being invaded. America's we're not being invaded. Like you dancing on the edge of a pin here, like, well, technically, if we can prove that someone in the Venezuelan government is in contact with someone from Trend Diego, then we can call it an invasion. It's ridiculous.

[Tommy Vitor]

The Supreme Court hasn't yet ruled on whether it's appropriate, whether it's lawful for Trump to invoke alien enemies. They keep pushing that off. In the latest ruling, they basically kicked it back to the 5th Circuit to tell them to rule and then it will come back to the Supreme Court at some point. This Tulsi stuff, the intelligence, their case wasn't great before the administration's case on Alien Enemies act, but this is gonna really fuck it.

[Jon Lovett]

But also, like, in the near term, this means it justifies the deportations of these Venezuelan migrants. What if Trump decides, you know what, we got to take the fight to Maduro, this invasion, we got to cut it off, you know, we're at the head and invade them. Right? Because remember, in the first Trump term, John Bolton famously went to the press briefing room with like a little note that was visible on his folder that said 5,000 US troops to Colombia, where he was, you know, trying to like, beat the drum of war with the Venezuelans. Like, Marco Rubio is very much on board with this sort of hard line anti Maduro, anti Venezuela worldview. I don't know. Like, it just. This is. It could get so much worse than this. And it's setting a precedent that no one in Congress seems to care about.

[Tommy Vitor]

On the Republican side also may be lawful. At least that's what the Supreme Court ruled that, that Trump can revoke temporary protected status for 350,000 Venezuelans. But it is a horrific policy. And imagine those. Imagine if you're in this country legally and you've been settling here because you were granted protected status and you have legal status and you're Venezuelan, you wake up today and you realize, like, now I could be. And it's not just deported back to Venezuela, which would be bad enough. Who knows what these people will do with you? Who knows if you get to send to SICOT or you get sent to.

[Jon Favreau]

Fucking Libya or wherever else you had a DUI and suddenly you're in a detention facility without end. It's revoking. I mean it is bad enough just from a human standpoint to revoke the status from people that are desperately fleeing political instability and violence. Revoking the status from Afghan refugees who were allies who by many accounts would be basically facing death if they go back to Afghanistan. Revoking the status of those people who worked with Special Forces, who worked with American troops, who risked their lives and helped our military. You're gonna send them back while bringing in a bunch of fucking white South African refugees to kind of stoke the erogenous zone of your right wing racist base. It's disgusting.

[Jon Lovett]

And as with the US government policy in Venezuela is just to destroy their economy with as many sanctions as we can possibly layer on. So we're sending people back. There's no life you can build from yourself in Venezuela if you're trying to get a job, if you're an asylum seeker, if you're seen as a political dissident, you will face persecution, violence or just economic destitution.

[Jon Favreau]

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[Unknown]

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[Tommy Vitor]

Speaking of people whose job it is to keep us all safe, FBI Director Kash Patel and Deputy Director Dan Bongino. What a duo. Sat down on Sunday for a Fox interview where they made clear that they've been compromised by the deep state. When asked about the truth behind the Trump assassination attempts and the death of Jeffrey Epstein. Here's what they said.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

In some of these cases, the there you're looking for is not there.

[Jon Lovett]

And I know people.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I get it. I understand it's not there. If it was there, we would have told you.

[Jon Favreau]

As someone who has worked as a public defender, as a prosecutor, who's been in that prison system, who's been in the metropolitan detention center, who's been in segregated housing, you know a suicide when you see one. And that's what that was.

[Tommy Vitor]

He killed himself.

[Jon Lovett]

Again, you want me to.

[Tommy Vitor]

I've seen the whole file.

[Jon Lovett]

He killed himself.

[Tommy Vitor]

Who got to them?

[Jon Favreau]

Maybe they were already. Look, who better to protect the deep state than two people that had claimed to be outsiders all along. Two people that these, that the conspiracy theorists thought they could trust, who now once finally in their position to do the, do the ultimate cover up. It's incredible work. It's incredible work by the Jews.

[Jon Lovett]

I thought you'd say Hillary Clinton.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. And Hillary Clinton.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. Someone tweeted the other day, why does Kash Patel always look like he just shit his pants? It's really, it's really spot on.

[Jon Favreau]

Isn't it a little bit strange? Like, I was talking about this with Tim because we did a short YouTube thing about this, but they seem to be acting almost responsible in this conversation. Like, it's weird.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, they're getting attacked.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah, yeah, they. Oh yeah, the MAGA people are very upset with them. But you know, I've had this thought and this interview really brought it back up for me, which is there are a lot of just awful, awful people in the cabinet. But I thought that Cash Patel and Dan Bongino would be at the very top of the list. And there's still plenty of time. I don't want to count my chickens here, but they are not, they're not the worst ones so far.

[Jon Favreau]

It's, it's. I, it's so strange. We have no idea what they're pursuing. We have no idea what kind of unholy investigations they're launching, planning to launch, what's going on behind the scenes.

[Tommy Vitor]

But the fact is, maybe they're like, we got the last two years. This is like we're going to go nuts on the last year.

[Jon Lovett]

We're two hours into an eight hour drive. I can't believe there's no traffic. This is going to end a disaster, man. Well, yeah, I would just also point out, like, these are clearly guys who went from being like right wing podcasters who would just spew conspiracy theories in service of building an audience. Like, January 6th was an inside job. Cash Patel played footsie with QAnon. He did. He was, you know, threatened to prosecute the media for reporting on January 6th. He talked about selling supplements that can detoxify you from the COVID vaccine. So like every conspiracy theory was, was just an opportunity to grift and build an audience. Now they have responsibility. They're getting attacked for not, you know, releasing the Epstein files. And I think clearly they're like flailing a bit. But what is remarkable from that interview is like, this is the shit they're spending most of their time on. You can just tell they are like managing right wing fever dreams. And you have to wonder, what is the opportunity cost here? What is the FBI not doing? What are we, like, what like espionage case or the Chinese just like fulfilling to their wildest dreams.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. They can't believe their luck. They cannot believe their luck. Yeah. I also like the. It's funny because I had the other reaction to this, which is what are they hearing, what are they seeing that makes them feel so chastened by this role, like the seriousness of this role, that they feel like they need to go out there and basically defend the bureau.

[Tommy Vitor]

Maybe they're just straight shooters, you know.

[Jon Favreau]

Like you calling them like they see it.

[Tommy Vitor]

They're awful. I would not have imagined that, like, if you had heard that, that Pam Bondi and Kristi Noem would be making headlines for doing more evil shit so far in the Trump administration than Dan Bongino and Cash Patel. Like, I wouldn't have taken that bet.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I think the nature of the job, I mean, like, when do you hear from the deputy FBI director. Normally never. It's weird that they're doing these interviews in the first place and they're also kind of mopping up shit that Pam Bondi spilled on the ground because she went out there and gave all these right wing influencers these folders.

[Jon Favreau]

Binder.

[Tommy Vitor]

That was a, that was supposed to be a surprise for everyone.

[Jon Lovett]

It was a big surprise.

[Tommy Vitor]

Well, it's like even Marco Rubio has done some horrible shit. Horrible compared to these days.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, there is. Yeah, it's turtles all the way down with these people. But the. So Trump over the weekend just reposted this conspiracy video from 2016.

[Tommy Vitor]

Oh yeah, the Clinton body count of.

[Jon Favreau]

The Clinton body count of all the different Hillary Clinton. I don't know if you, dear listeners, a surprise to me as it might be to you. One of the most prolific serial killers. Basically just a spree for decades. And I wonder if he posted that. It's like the conspiracy theory version of his Medicare EO where he's like, he knows, he's about to see. He knew that Dan Mangino and Cash Patel were about to say that Epstein killed himself. So he needed to get out in front of it and put out some fucking fringe conspiracy content about Hillary Clinton. Because there's just no there there. He's doing interviews where he's talking about how I'm putting out the RFK file, I'm putting out the JFK file, I'm putting out the MLK file, I'm putting out the alien file, but there's no there there anywhere. None of this is leading to the kind of. Of grand. They're not coming to completion. The right wing conspiracy theories are not, are not, they're not finishing. And Trump has just kind of been like edging these people for fucking a decade. And I think he genuinely doesn't know what to do. Right. Isn't that right, Tommy?

[Jon Lovett]

I've said it better myself. He also has siloed communication channels where he's allowed to just chum the water over on tooth social and then be like semi normal and public.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, no, I think that's another point too.

[Tommy Vitor]

I mean, I think there's still hope for Akash Patel and Dan Bongino from some of the mega base if they're disappointed because they were also asked about January 6th and specifically whether there were undercover FBI agents in the crowd egging people on. Something that Kash Patel has mused about in the past. He seemed really excited to tell Maria Bartiromo that the bureau is sending documents to Congress right now. Full of new answers on this. And then Bongino stepped in to kind of throw a little cold water on that, saying that when we do get information, everyone needs to remember the difference between an FBI agent and an FBI source. Just Dan Bongino, voice of reason again.

[Jon Lovett]

Deputy Dan, kind of Bigfoot and his boss there.

[Jon Favreau]

Well, it's funny because when Ben Gino was being. Yeah. When Bungino was. I don't know if it was during the hearing or when he was being interviewed about. About whether. About, like, his different role. He talked about how when you're a podcaster, it's one role. And, you know, I've had other. I've had serious roles in my. And it does, like, genuinely seem like he views them as, like, fundamentally distinct. What a world.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, I mean, they do have a workforce. Right. They have to go wake up the next day and work with a bunch of FBI officials and look them in the eye in meetings.

[Jon Favreau]

And those are serious fucking guys that, like, don't suffer fools that are probably pretty intimidating.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

And, you know, I think everyone kind of gets captured by the building you work in to some extent. You go a little bit native in these jobs. And so what I think they're setting up is the fact that there were probably people in the crowd on January 6 who had been FBI sources.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

And the right wing conspiracy theory has always been that the FBI sent those people out into the crowd and they told them, like, let's go do it. Let's storm the Capitol. And they were kind of like fomenting the violent part of the. Of the day, and the FBI is directly responsible for it in some way. And that's obviously not true, and it's never been the case, but they're kind of clearly alluding to that. And what they're trying to tell the audience is be satisfied when what we tell you is that there were FBI sources in the crowd that day and not necessarily undercover agents.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah, well, there was a. I think There was an IG report and inspector general's report in 2024 about this. And I think there were around, like 20 sources, FBI sources who were in or in and around the Capitol that.

[Jon Lovett]

Day, including, like, the proud boy leadership.

[Tommy Vitor]

Right. But there was only. But they were. And there were like three or four that the FBI had asked to go there to monitor domestic terrorism. So I am sure that there are going to be things that had been in that report already that will be revealed as, like, suddenly new information and all that kind of shit.

[Jon Favreau]

It's also so fucking stupid. It's not far from the trend Aragua thing. Like, oh, they're trying to find a connection to trend. We haven't been embedded by Venezuela. No report can change that. Okay, let's say there was. Let's say there was an FBI informant somewhere there on January 6th. If an FBI informant is standing next to you and he's like, hey, you want to go rob this fucking bank? You're not. Like, there's no. You're still robbing a bank. You still have to say no. If all your FBI enforcements were to jump off a bridge, would you do that, too?

[Jon Lovett]

Yes.

[Jon Favreau]

It's not an absolution. I mean, we just. Apparently today they decided the Trump administration is going to give ashley Babbitt's family $5 million.

[Tommy Vitor]

They're going to settle that taxpayer money. That's your money going to the family of someone who tried to break into the Capitol and injure police officers.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I suspect this will be similar to the Epstein case in that a lot of this information is in the public domain already and they're going to, to repackage it. Like, if you talk to really the smart journalists who have really covered Jeffrey Epstein and his various horrific crimes and prosecutions, etc, over the decades, they'll tell you, like, there's not a little black book waiting to be released by the FBI. Like, a lot of this information has been in the public domain. It's been in court filings, it's been reported out by journalists, and people are waiting for a smoking gun that probably does not exist.

[Tommy Vitor]

Trump also spent a good chunk of his weekend Trump also spent a good chunk of his weekend posting time threatening a variety of public figures. He called Bob Iger an ABC News sleazebags and gave them a, quote, fair warning that, quote, they must not say that Qatar is giving me a free plane because it's actually a gift to the Defense Department that Trump is taking with him when he leaves office.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, it's actually Frankenstein was the doctor. That's what we're talking about here.

[Tommy Vitor]

Then on Monday, the president of CBS News, one of Trump's other targets, became the latest to resign from the network as CBS's parent company, Paramount, is moving towards a settlement with Trump. Over 60 minutes, editing an interview with Kamala Harris. Trump's also threatening to investigate Kamala's celebrity endorsements. Believe it or not, his claim is that Harris paid millions of dollars to Springsteen, Beyonce, Oprah, Bono and others for their endorsements, which she did not. But Trump said he's calling for a, quote, major investigation and that the endorsements represent, quote, an illegal election scam at the highest level. This all started last week after Trump posted on the way home from the Middle east, quote, has anyone noticed that since I said, I hate Taylor Swift, she's no longer hot. Then. Then after Bruce Springsteen criticized Trump from the stage during a concert in England, Trump called the Boss a, quote, dried out prune of a rocker. Springsteen responded the next night with this.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

But in America, my home, they're persecuting people for their right to free speech and voicing their dissent. A majority of our elected representatives have utterly failed to protect the American people from the abuses of. Of an unfit president and a rogue government. The America I've sung to you about.

[Jon Lovett]

For 50 years is real.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And regardless of its many faults, it's.

[Tommy Vitor]

A great country with a great people.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And we will survive this moment.

[Tommy Vitor]

Yeah. Verdict still out on that? Just checking, guys. Is it illegal to say that Trump got a free plane from Qatar or to run for office with celebrity endorsements? You think those are illegal?

[Jon Lovett]

Good question. I wish I knew that before we did the Cash Patel segment.

[Jon Favreau]

Trump is doing. He's trying to intimidate people. Because if ABC was willing to settle with Donald Trump over what George Stephanopoulos said, which was completely and eminently defensible, he thinks he can threaten people into not referring to this as a gift to Donald Trump because it's technically a gift to his library. A library at this point, which would, I think would be a plane. I don't know what else exists. Not any books, that's for sure. Are they going to put the books in the plane?

[Tommy Vitor]

Because it's a flying library that's going.

[Jon Lovett]

To be all document retention over there.

[Tommy Vitor]

Either the location is going to be wherever Trump is.

[Jon Favreau]

It's also interesting that he's back to threatening ABC because, you know, he does these deals with the law firms, and then he starts kind of demanding that the law firms represent his kind of skeezy friends. He does this deal with Colombia, then he tries to put Colombia under receivership. So he's now back to threatening Disney, even though he did this sort of filthy deal with Disney. But at the same time, when he was in Abu Dhabi, he was talking about a great meeting he had with Bob Iger where Bob Iger showed him the plans for Disney Emirates. I don't know what they're gonna call it. So it seems to be like a carrot and stick thing with Disney.

[Jon Lovett]

I like that he says Taylor Swift is no longer hot after she just wrapped up a $2 billion tour and had people turning into the super bowl to see her. That doesn't seem like it tracks.

[Tommy Vitor]

He really is just the most casual news consumer. Whatever's just. I haven't heard much about Taylor Swift lately. Everyone must not like her. I mean, it's just, you know, it's like whatever pops into his mind, he just. He wraps up this whole. This whole trip in the Middle East. He's on the plane home. This is what he's. This is what. He's three in the morning, and then he's like. He's like, I'm gonna investigate. Why is he. Who cares? Why is he investigating Kyle Harris? You beat her.

[Jon Lovett]

You beat her.

[Jon Favreau]

What was Beyonce worth? Not enough.

[Tommy Vitor]

Not enough.

[Jon Favreau]

The. Yeah, he turns on the television in Palm beach and he sees a. He sees a. He sees Clean Eastwood and escape from Alcatraz. Next thing we know, we're sending federal officials back to Alcatraz to kind of reopen that bad boy. He's just. He's just. He's just riffing.

[Jon Lovett]

He's having a good time.

[Tommy Vitor]

Okay, before we go, just a few quick things. Mark your calendars on June 6th. Love it. And the bulwarks. Tim Miller and Sarah Longwell are hosting a big gay live show and fundraiser at the Lincoln Theater in D.C. love it. You guys, tell us a little bit about the fundraiser.

[Jon Favreau]

It's Oral Pride. We'll be at the Lincoln Theater. We're raising money for the Immigrant Defenders Law center, which represents Andre Hernandez Romero, who we talked about, and a bunch of the other people being held in El Salvador. All the proceeds will go to that organization. It's a serious cause, but it's gonna be a very fun show. It'll be me, it'll be Tim, it'll be Sarah. You know, it'll be a real test for her to see how many words can a lesbian get in edgewise. That's sort of the theme of the show. Drink. Every time Sarah gets to finish a sentence. But it's gonna be really fun. We're lining up some great guests. If Tim and I can share a stage and if a lesbian can share a stage with us, you know, what can't we do? You know, what can't we do together? And it's moving.

[Tommy Vitor]

You know that. You know that Tommy and Dan and I and Jay and. And JVL are gonna do counter programming.

[Jon Favreau]

Oh, really?

[Tommy Vitor]

You're gonna do a straight. Straight Friday. It's a straight Friday.

[Jon Favreau]

That's great.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, we're gonna.

[Tommy Vitor]

It's gonna be us. We're gonna have some some of the Afrikaners on.

[Jon Favreau]

Sounds like a really, really fun event.

[Tommy Vitor]

We're doing a we're doing an immigrant event too, outside of a outside of a PGA event. Yeah, that's great.

[Jon Lovett]

It's rounding up some straights.

[Jon Favreau]

That's going to be a really nice time.

[Tommy Vitor]

Anyway, cricket.com events that's the tickets, right?

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. Get some tickets everywhere.

[Tommy Vitor]

Go get some tickets. I I think I want to fly across the country just to go. Also, the Cricket Store has a bunch of great new merch, including new designs for our classics Friend of the Pod T. This is part of a big upgrade at the Crooked Store. Ooh. All Crooked Merch is now made from higher quality, more durable materials with updated fits and more sustainable manufacturing practices. The site got an upgrade too. See the new site and grab a new Friend of the Pod T at the same old URL cricket.com store that's our show for today. Dan and I will be back with a new show on Friday. If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad free or get access to our subscriber discord and exclusive podcasts, consider joining our Friends of the pod [e-mail] friends or subscribe on Apple Podcasts directly from the Pod Save America feed. Also, be sure to follow Pod Save America on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube for full episodes, bonus content, and more. And before you hit that next button, you can help boost this episode by leaving us a review and by sharing it with friends and family. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media product. Our producers are David Toledo and Saul Rubin. Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Reid Churlin is our executive editor and Adrian Hill is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Kanter is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Madelyn Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt de Groat is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Ben Hethcote, Mia Kelman, Molly Lobel, Kiril Pelaviev, and David Toles. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America. East.

[Unknown]

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[Tommy Vitor]

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[Jon Favreau]

Spot the new DQ Summer Blizzard Treat.

[Tommy Vitor]

Menu is here, and as the official treat of mlb, we're swinging big with our fan favorite S' Mores Blizzard Treat plus new mixing bowl mashup with brownie batter and chocolate chip cookie dough and.

[Jon Favreau]

Even more in our stacked summer lineup.

[Tommy Vitor]

Hurry in today because nothing says summer.

[Jon Favreau]

Like baseball and our new Summer Blizzard Treat menu right now at dq. Happy Tastes Good participation may vary. Major League Baseball trademarks used with permission.