From Pirro to Zero

Summary

Pod Save America — "From Pirro to Zero"

Date: August 4, 2026
Hosts: Jon Favreau, Jon Lovett, Tommy Vietor
Guest: Francesca Hong (Wisconsin gubernatorial candidate)

---

Episode Overview

This episode digs into a swirling week in U.S. politics. The hosts break down the latest drama inside the Trump administration—including the messy Attorney General confirmation, a botched prosecution led by Jeanine Pirro, and how these stories affect Democrats' push to flip the House. They expose Republican scandals, especially the Max Miller abuse allegations, and cover primary developments in Michigan and Wisconsin. The episode closes with a sharp interview with Francesca Hong, a rising progressive voice running for governor in Wisconsin.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s Iran Bluffs and Foreign Policy Loop (02:27–07:26)

• Trump's repeated threats of massive attacks on Iran without following through are compared to the infamous "Syria red line" fiasco, highlighting a pattern of presidential bluffing.
• Tommy Vietor: "Trump has now done that five times. And all the Republicans who blamed the Syria Red Line for Putin... are just silent on this now." (05:41)
• The hosts mock the administration's reported request for "creative and unconventional ideas to punish Iran," likening it to a "war crimes brainstorm" and a writer’s room.

2. Todd Blanche Confirmed as Attorney General; January 6th Slush Fund Drama (07:30–12:54)

• Todd Blanche is being confirmed partly by promising to end Trump's January 6th slush fund—an ambiguous, weak commitment.
• Jon Lovett: "These pieces of paper aren't worth a fucking thing." (09:36)
• Despite promises, there is little faith among the hosts that the slush fund or its associated corruption is truly dead. They see it as a recurring, "Michael Myers-like," zombie policy.
• Tommy Vietor: "Trump is not remotely embarrassed about this fund. It is quite clear that he thinks this is something that he is owed by us, the taxpayers." (10:18)

3. Jeanine Pirro’s DOJ Disaster and Trump’s Fury (12:55–19:58)

• U.S. Attorney Jeanine Pirro, once a Fox News host, is on the verge of being fired after the DOJ dropped false vandalism charges against a former Olympian.
• The DOJ admits the reflecting pool incident wasn't vandalism but shoddy construction—undermining Trump’s public allegations and media hype.
• Donald Trump (impersonation): "She folded like an umbrella." (14:23)
• The hosts expose serious prosecutorial misconduct, discuss the legal aftermath, and highlight the human cost—innocent people facing felonies based on lies.

4. RFK Jr. on CNN & the Challenges of Confronting Disinformation (22:50–32:25)

• The hosts dissect a combative CNN interview between Dana Bash and RFK Jr., Trump's HHS Secretary, focusing on vaccine misinformation and pandemic denialism.
• Tommy Vietor: "He is so slippery and condescending…but when you interview that guy, that's the job." (27:56)
• The segment highlights the danger of “both sides” science and how conspiracy theorists hijack individual outlier studies to undermine truth.

5. Max Miller Abuse Scandal and House Republicans (33:11–41:17)

• Max Miller, an Ohio GOP congressman, faces credible, harrowing accusations of domestic abuse—including child endangerment—from multiple women.
• Tommy Vietor: "Max Miller should be in prison, not Congress, period. He is lying, abusive scum." (35:55)
• Despite national headlines and condemnation from his own former father-in-law, the Republican Party, including Trump, refuses to act, prioritizing their majority over morals.

6. Michigan Primary: Abdul El-Sayed vs. Haley Stevens and Battle for the Senate (44:18–52:31)

• The tight Michigan Senate primary reveals generational divides. Under-50 voters lean heavily toward El-Sayed (67–25), over-60s towards Stevens.
• The hosts praise El-Sayed's optimistic, policy-driven vision but note his challenges with broader appeal. Key takeaway: leftist optimism must be fused with practical politics and unity post-primary.

7. DNC Chair Ken Martin’s Persistent Drama (52:31–59:17)

• Yet another chapter: Ken Martin allegedly omits a damning section in the 2024 election post-mortem report.
• Jon Lovett: "Too fucking bad. We need the money. We need a DNC chair people can trust. You are not that." (54:01)
• The DNC's credibility and fundraising are again called into question, with staff even resorting to deleting a cat video intended as positive PR.

8. Francesca Hong Interview: Progressive Vision for Wisconsin (61:32–74:57)

• See detailed section below.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jon Lovett: "[The slush fund] is so far beyond anything anyone could have ever seen from a president. A slush fund for fucking insurrectionists." (12:01)
• Jon Favreau (on Jeanine Pirro): "That was the closest he's come to sounding like he did in the Celebrity Apprentice. Like, it's like the boardroom and he's about to fire someone." (14:27)
• Tommy Vietor (on Trump’s Iran saber-rattling): "It really does feel like a writer's room, not a war plan." (07:26)
• On RFK Jr.: "Dana, you probably don't understand this because you're not a scientist, but—" – RFK Jr. gets called out by the hosts for "misogynistic" and condescending interview tactics. (24:24)
• Tommy Vietor (on Max Miller): "Doing that to a two-year-old makes you want to drive over to his house with a baseball bat and solve it that way." (39:58)

---

Timestamps for Major Segments

• 02:27 — Show intro, Trump Iran bluffs and analysis
• 07:30 — Attorney General Blanche, January 6th fund
• 12:55 — Jeanine Pirro reflecting pool case debacle
• 22:50 — RFK Jr. CNN interview and the perils of misinformation
• 33:11 — Max Miller abuse scandal
• 44:18 — Michigan Senate primary analysis
• 52:31 — DNC Chair Ken Martin controversy
• 61:32 — Francesca Hong interview
• 74:57 — Closing

---

Francesca Hong Interview — Key Moments (61:32–74:57)

Evolving on Policing & Public Safety

• Favreau: Confronts Hong with her 2020 posts on abolishing police and asks how her views have changed.
• Hong: "My views have only become stronger in that I'm serious about public safety and I will not abolish the police…Law enforcement needs resources and accountability." (62:32–63:58)
• Says her legislative work has led to a focus on “sensible, practical solutions” for safety, not radical slogans.

On Prisons and Commutations

• Pressed about comments on a “world without prisons,” Hong commits to practical policy:
• "What may have been more aspirational is not primary…We have to ensure that all people…have access to great public schools, mental health resources, and accountability." (64:17)
• She would not grant commutations to those convicted of murder. (65:07)

Budget Priorities & Rebates (WI's $2.5B Surplus)

• Hong opposed bipartisan rebate checks, arguing they were poorly targeted: "We were seeing $600 and $300 rebates go to millionaires and billionaires…I’m focused on making sure everyday working-class people are able to get real relief…" (66:04)
• Prioritizes property tax cuts funded by a millionaires tax, universal free childcare, public school investment, and expanding healthcare. (67:16)

Tech, Data Centers & Local Control

• Defends her one-year moratorium on data centers as a protection for taxpayers, environment, and local communities not to be “Foxconned.” (68:21)
• Would lift moratorium after strong regulations for polluters, utility rate protections, and an end to "tax giveaways." (69:26)

Differences with Primary Opponent

• Contrasts herself with David Crowley on data centers, ending school vouchers, taxing the wealthy, and closing corporate loopholes. (70:23)

On “Democratic Socialist” Label

• Recognizes the label’s popularity gap (“only 13% of independents have a favorable view”), emphasizes solutions over labels: "It is about the solutions… I will always put working-class people first…” (72:57)

Closing: Coalition Building & Youth Engagement

• Hong boasts a robust grassroots movement, especially among youth and first-time voters: “We have now grown our movement to over 7,000 people… It's the support coming from younger voters, first-time voters…” (73:59)

---

Episode’s Tone

• The hosts remain irreverent, sharp, and unsparing—using gallows humor, biting sarcasm, and outright bluntness.
• They alternate between disbelief at official corruption and scandal, and pragmatic focus on Democratic organizing and voter engagement.
• Despite the chaos, there's cautious optimism about party unity and progressive energy, especially in state-level races.

---

For Further Listening

• Vote Save America — Crooked Dozen: votesaveamerica.com
• Francesca Hong’s campaign: Focus on her coalition and organizing (details at ~73:59)
• Michigan primary: Watch for post-primary party unity efforts

---

This summary provides a complete, detailed roadmap for the episode’s major stories, tone, and key quotes, equipping listeners (or non-listeners) with clear insight into both substance and energy of the Pod Save America team.

Transcript

[Jon Favreau]

Today's presenting sponsor is Simplisafe Home Security. In politics, as in so many fields, being proactive matters. If you're waiting for your opponent to strike first, you're already on your back foot. The same rule applies in home security. Unlike traditional security systems that only alert you after a break in is already underway, Simplisafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside. Smart AI powered outdoor cameras detect suspicious activity at the perimeter of your home and alert live US based agents to step in. Simplisafe's agents assess the threat, intervene through the outdoor camera to ward off trespassers, then call for 911 dispatch. Our CEO Lucinda recently had a Simplisafe installed in her home and she said it was quick and easy to install. It was up and running in no time. It's been working great for her and it gives her the the peace of mind to to know who's dropping by. Or if you want, you can easily chat with visitors through the camera, even when you're away. Simplisafe has been protecting your world for 20 years. Right now, you can get 50% off a new SimpliSafe system. Go to simplisafe.com crooked that's simplisafe.com crooked for 50% off. There's no safe like simple, simply safe. At Radiolab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science, neuroscience, chemistry.

[Donald Trump]

But.

[Francesca Hong]

But we do also like to get

[Tommy Vietor]

into other kinds of stories. Stories about policing or politics, country music,

[Francesca Hong]

hockey, sex of bugs.

[Jon Favreau]

Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not science, we bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers and

[Jon Lovett]

hopefully make you see the world anew.

[Jon Favreau]

Radiolab Adventures on the Edge of what We Think Think we know.

[Francesca Hong]

Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tommy Vietor]

Hey, it's Tommy from Pod Save America and Pod Save the world. Last year, 2,500 people joined us at CrookedCon for conversations with some of the smartest organizers, least annoying politicians, and most interesting voices in politics to talk about how to fix this mess. Even President Obama made a surprise appearance. We're doing it all again November 5th to 7th in Washington D.C. with even more podcasts, panels and workshops. Plus there'll be drinks, which we'll need after the midterms, no matter which way they go. Get [e-mail] if you're a friend of the pod, you get a discount too. See you there.

[Jon Favreau]

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.

[Jon Lovett]

I'm Jon Lovett.

[Tommy Vietor]

Tom Evtor.

[Jon Favreau]

On today's show, Todd Blanche is getting confirmed as attorney general after killing Trump's January 6th slush fund. But is it really dead? We'll talk about that. And whether Blanche's U.S. attorney for D.C. jeanine Pirro, is about to be fired for telling the truth about the reflecting pool that Trump still says was vandalized. We'll also cover the disturbing case of House Republican Max Miller, what it means for our efforts to flip the House, and. And what you can do to help flip the House as well. We got more news about cursed DNC Chair Ken Martin, a Michigan primary that's finally ending. And later, I talked to Wisconsin gubernatorial candidate Francesca Hong about her momentum in a huge race that's just seven days from the finish line. But first, it was another eventful weekend where the Commander in Chief threatened Iran with what he's calling the biggest attack since World War II, only to once again pull back at the very last moment because of alleged talks about an alleged deal that no one can confirm. Iran says it's bullshit. U.S. officials told CBS no new talks have been planned. And by Monday afternoon, Trump put to rest any lingering confusion with his usual clarity.

[Jon Lovett]

This is at least the fifth time you turned off airstrikes against Iran since April to negotiate. What is your message to the American people who are wondering what has changed this time? Why should it be any different?

[Donald Trump]

Well, you don't know. I don't know. I think we're going maybe get something, but I want to give them every last chance before decapitation. This is the last chance for them to sign a good document. I'm very proud of the fact that I will give people. I'll give people a chance. This is a big move. Iran knew it. They knew what was coming. It was going to come last night, and it would have gone on for a long time, and there'd be essentially very little left. There'd be nothing left.

[Jon Favreau]

Okay. Seems like he's about to wrap this thing up, huh?

[Jon Lovett]

Little time before the decapitation. Queen of farts over here.

[Tommy Vietor]

I was thinking Marie Antoinette.

[Jon Favreau]

Why do you think Trump called off planned strikes for the 500th time?

[Tommy Vietor]

I think it was a combination of things. I think the Saudis got to him and other Gulf autocrats who pay him bribes. They do not want to see him

[Jon Favreau]

give him planes and stuff.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, give him planes, God knows what else. They don't want to see a resumption of full scale combat because for them, that means the oil and gas industry gets all screwed up. They can't get their exports out. And also the Iranians Fire a bunch of missiles and drones at them. So that sucks if you're sitting in Saudi Arabia or Bahrain or Kuwait or whatever. I think mbs, Mohammed bin Salman in particular, was persuasive. There's also this ongoing issue about they don't have enough interceptor missiles to defend from all these Iranian ballistic missile responses. I think Trump also knows it's gonna jack up oil and gas prices pretty close to the midterms and probably not materially impact the situation. You're not gonna win the war in a weekend. I mean, I think you and I talked about this on Friday. Some of the reports were like, Trump's got the biggest airstrike barrage since World War II planned. That'll be done by Monday. It's like, you're not gonna win the war. So he's bluffing, and he's trying to see if he can use it as leverage. The thing that's driving me crazy, it just for a quick aside. You guys remember the whole Syria Red Line thing? That was a fight about Syria policy, kind of. But the thing everyone in Washington said is presidents don't bluff. Right. You can't threaten to do something and then not implement it. And, like, Trump has now done that five times. And all the Republicans who blame the Syria Red Line for Putin invading Crimea or everything China does are just silent on this now.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

I mean, at this point, I'm sure that the Iranians hear, like, the. The biggest, most devastating attack since World War II. And they probably start laughing.

[Tommy Vietor]

They're like, we just beat you in a previous war.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, tell us. What. How many times, how many cycles of this can we go through? We're going to obliterate your society. We're going to send you back to the Stone Age.

[Jon Favreau]

Sure you are.

[Jon Lovett]

And then it's called off by the time the markets open on Monday, over and over again. The thing that's scary to me is at some point he's going to have to follow through. There's only so many times we can do this cycle, especially because the Iranians are not being cooperative with what Trump wants, which is to pretend there's negotiations because, you know, go along with what I'm saying. Why are you. Why are you being so difficult and not confirming my ridiculous vacillations and the story I'm telling about how my threat of terrible violence brought you back to the table?

[Tommy Vietor]

Remember a couple weeks ago when you said they had killed off all the hardliners and now the remaining people were more practical?

[Jon Favreau]

Did you guys see the. Did you guys see The CNN story with the headline US Military Asks Troops for Creative and Unconventional Ideas to Punish Iran.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, war crime is brainstorm.

[Jon Lovett]

It's not everybody. We're doing a mood board. Everybody, everybody into the conference room. We're doing a mood board.

[Tommy Vietor]

Guy's got all bad ideas in a brainstorm.

[Jon Favreau]

I mean, that tells you something that maybe they're sort of out of. Clearly, they're out of ideas. The bluffing is getting trickier to pull off.

[Tommy Vietor]

Really does feel like a writer's room, not a war plan.

[Jon Favreau]

Fucking goobers. So Trump did get much closer to having a full fledged Attorney general after Todd Blanche finally did what the President has refused to do. He posted a letter showing that he'd formally rescinded the order creating the January 6th insurrectionist slush fund. And in an accompanying press release, DOJ said the other big part of the IRS settlement, immunity from investigations into potential tax fraud for Trump and his family would apply, quote, only retroactively. Tom Tillis and John Cornyn, the two holdouts, promptly said that was good enough for them and they will now vote in favor of his nomination. Trump got asked about the conditions in the Oval on Monday and he was non committal.

[Donald Trump]

I didn't look at it. All I know is that Todd Blanche is great. He's going to do a great job. Everybody knows it. And I understand there's been a sign off, but I don't know what they agreed. I think Todd Blanche agreed to reconfirm things that he's already said, and what

[Jon Favreau]

he said was, okay, so Blanche is getting confirmed. How ironclad do you think Blanche's rescinded order is Lovett?

[Jon Lovett]

So Cornyn or Tillis, and it doesn't matter which one in some interview said, look, you know, could a future Attorney General rescind the paper? Could Trump rescind it? Sure. But then it'll be up to the American people. And what's so like, it just. I knew this was coming, of course, is what they wanted to do. They've signaled that they said, we want to get to yes, which Trump could see. And so they were gonna figure out some way to get to yes. They had a chance to vote on an amendment to ban this bylaw, and they chose not to. Other Republicans did it. They didn't. They didn't. And now after Trump has made fools of them, after Trump has, you know, injected himself into their primaries and cost him their seats as they're leaving office, the best that they can muster is this sort of pathetic display of like a piece of paper that can be rescinded. Like, experts and lawyers don't even necessarily believe this paper applies to the settlement because the settlement required signatures of all parties, so it may not even apply today. And they had an opportunity to vote for something that would have actually banned it in the law. They chose not to because that would have been a victory for their Democrats. And so I don't know what they're telling themselves when they sort of close their eyes at night, but it is the most. Trump had their fucking number. They were as weak and craven and pathetic as he thought. And he has been proven right. And these pieces of paper aren't worth a fucking thing.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

Trump said the slush fund was a gift, Todd, and I'm taking it with me. I don't believe for a second this is de. You can move him off of bad policies, but you can't really move him off of something that he wants personally. And this is money in his pocket if he can avoid IRS audits forever or have a slush fund that he can divvy out for political power. Trump is not remotely embarrassed about this fund. It is quite clear that he thinks this is something that he is owed by us, the taxpayers. So I have zero. I put zero stock in this terrible idea being dead.

[Jon Lovett]

This is.

[Tommy Vietor]

This is Michael Myers. This will keep coming back and coming back and coming back. And I think he will fight for it until he gets what he wants. The only thing that might kill it is Democrats winning the House.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. Our friend Sky Perryman, lawyer who's been suing the Trump administration for democracy Forward, she made the point to the New York Times that, you know, if the Justice Department truly intended to end the fund, they would submit the sworn declaration that the court has requested on this, which would be more binding than a fingers crossed promise from Todd Blanche that does not include the signature, as you said, love it of Donald Trump. So I would imagine this goes the way of everything else, like the ICE detentions that have now ramped back up as soon as the news cycle moves on and Todd Blanche's attorney general, they will quietly start paying out individual January 6th convicts and other people that they like. And we'll get some report months from now that, oh, someone discovered that people are getting payouts from the Trump administration and someone will ask him about it and he'll be like, well, I said it was unfair, but I don't know anything about that. And then that'll be that.

[Jon Lovett]

This is also. The whole thing is so ridiculous because what are we negotiating over here? We have. We'll get to it. But we have the president threatening to fire prosecutors simply for telling the truth about the prosecution of someone who didn't deserve to be prosecuted. We have Todd Blanche in front of Congress saying that DOJ is not independent.

[Donald Trump]

We.

[Jon Lovett]

We have so many reports about the politicization of the Justice Department under Pam Bondi and now Todd Blanche. And their final act is to stop what is like. The fund is so. It is so far beyond anything anyone could have ever seen from a president. A slush fund for fucking insurrectionists. And this is what they're gonna pat themselves on the back about? This is as they have no political fights left to fight as Trump has, like, made enemies of them. Can imagine the reverse of Trump being like, I'm gonna like as a senator being like, even though humil me, I'm gonna do the right thing for your cabinet nominee. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.

[Jon Favreau]

Good to run on in the midterms. Anyone who look a lot of these people are gonna vote to confirm Todd Blanche. And I'm interested to see what Susan Collins and Dan Sullivan and John Husted do, because if you voted to confirm Blanche, you've basically voted for the slush fund. So any ad about that is completely fair.

[Tommy Vietor]

No doubt.

[Jon Favreau]

So Blanche is in, but Trump's U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia may be out. On Friday afternoon, former and now maybe future Fox News host Jeanine Pirro announced in a court filing that the Justice Department would be dropping its case against former Olympian David Hearn, who had been facing a felony charge for allegedly vandalizing the reflecting pool. But Pirro and the DOJ now admit, according to the court filing, that the damages to the pool were the result of a, quote, hasty and botched installation, not vandalism. No shit. The Department of Justice went on to accuse the Department of the Interior of knowing it wasn't vandalism and misleading prosecutors about what really happened. Take that, Doug Burgum. Trump, surprise, surprise. Is furious.

[Francesca Hong]

Have you spoken to Jeanine Pirro about

[Tommy Vietor]

her decision to drop?

[Jon Lovett]

No.

[Donald Trump]

Jeanine Pirro made a mistake. It was vandalism. We have photographs or tapes, like moving cameras, right? We have them when people are on

[Jon Lovett]

the side cutting it with a.

[Donald Trump]

Now, I'm not saying I was 100% thrilled with the contractor, but the contractor was rushing. We wanted to get it open for July 4th, and we got it done. It looked beautiful. And then they cut it. The judge was extremely unfriendly to Jeanine, and frankly, I think she choked. And I was disappointed with Jeanine Pirro really disappointed with Jeanine Pirro. She. She folded like an umbrella.

[Jon Favreau]

That was the closest he's come to sounding like he did in the Celebrity Apprentice. Like, it's like the boardroom and he's about to fire someone.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, it's like meatloaf. You didn't make the taco restaurant operate at a profit yet.

[Tommy Vietor]

Over at the bubblers were too loud on the memorial.

[Jon Lovett]

Jeanine Pirro, you're fired.

[Tommy Vietor]

That's the best part. Saying they had to turn off the reflecting pool bubblers because it would have interfered with the UFC fight. Like a gurgling fountain would have distracted the rule. 5,000 people cheering, someone's face getting bashed in. The roar of the pool pump.

[Jon Favreau]

Apparently, Pyrrho and Burgum were seen after that walking into the Oval Office, and then Burgum was seen walking out, but Pyrrho is still in there. Now, by the time you're listening to this, probably by the time we finish recording this, we could already. She could already be done, but so, so long. So long, Janine. It sounds like, what a fucking mess this was. What a fucking mess.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. Also, like, before people go saying, like, I clearly. Like, it seems like this was. This was written in anger, like, clearly annoyed at whatever they were getting from the Interior Department. But regardless, the idea that the Department of Justice, even after doing the right thing here, in between fucking getting a char. An indictment for this guy and letting him go, like, your entire story was reversed. What kind of evidence were you basing this on when you brought the charges in the first place? Why did you have to learn so much after you decided to try to ruin a man's life that you would eventually decide to drop it? I guess because you thought it wouldn't hold up in court.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah. I mean, the only reason they had to come clean is because if you knowingly submit false evidence in court, you can be charged with perjury and you can go to jail and you can, you know, be punished by state bar associations and deal with all their problems. So Doug Burgum's just like, I'll just lie in the court of public opinion like, no skin off my ass. But Judge Jeanine, it doesn't matter how many chardonnays you have, you cannot lie before the judge.

[Jon Favreau]

I mean, there's always a spot on the five for her.

[Tommy Vietor]

Oh, yeah, they'll make it the six.

[Jon Favreau]

I know this one seems small and silly, and it's kind of fun because it's Trump's renovations and it's the reflecting pool. And it's so obviously a lie. But this guy was charged with a felony.

[Jon Lovett]

It's crazy.

[Jon Favreau]

Had to get lawyer. Was like facing jail time. And it was all because of an obvious lie that everyone knew was an obvious lie. And they all, I mean, there's all, you know, you can look for them anywhere. There's these clips all over the place of Caroline Levitt, Donald Trump, Jeanine Pierrot being like, it's evidence. We have evidence that we're gonna present in court and we know it. And it was the box cutter and just a lie the entire time. One of the more brazen lies they've ever told.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, there's some interview where someone's questioning Jeanine Pirro about this and you realize, like, she doesn't totally know the facts. He's like, well, did he have a knife? It's like, no, no, no. He did it with his hands. He's like, I'm sorry, what are you saying? This could. This 67 year old canoeist is like,

[Tommy Vietor]

what, like swimming through the pool, ripping up Wolverine? What are we talking about?

[Jon Lovett]

What's crazy, right? Like zung crazy.

[Tommy Vietor]

Let's do this. Yeah, no, this is. It's a good look. Yeah, I'm with you. This story, like, didn't seize me when it came out in the same way the East Wing kind of story didn't. Like, really, it wasn't the thing I care the most about. But what I think I've come to realize over time is how much symbols matter and how much it's made this corruption stories break through. We can talk about, you know, day trading from the Oval Office and the amount of money Trump is making, but like stats and stats and figures are not gonna break through as much as a simple narrative like this where you have Trump's selfishness and ego leading a innocent man to be fucking prosecuted or tearing down the East Wing or whatever. These symbols really matter. They make these stories break through. I think it's impacted in politically also.

[Jon Lovett]

It's coming on a day when the Attorney General nomination is about to be carried through. Like, there are the two Republicans just decided to give their votes to like give their imprimatur to how this Department of Justice is being run. In any other era at any other time, this would be like, of course we need to bring Todd Blanche before the Senate again to find out what does he think about this? Was he aware of this prosecution? Does he think Jeanine Pirro was in the wrong?

[Jon Favreau]

Does he think now he's got an out? Because if Trump fires her he'll be like, absolutely good. The president did the right thing. This was bad. This is not how we're gonna run the Justice Department. Department.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, let's see what happens now.

[Jon Favreau]

He would, he, of course he wouldn't have said that if Trump didn't fire.

[Jon Lovett]

And also, what. Were you aware of these charges? Do you believe Doug Burgum misled the Department of Justice? Right. Like, let's. There needs to be some resolution of these facts because now we have Trump and the Interior Department heads saying that it was still a crime and that this person should still be prosecuted.

[Jon Favreau]

It's not over either because David Hearn's lawyer has basically said that. I think he told CNN that all options are on the table. And among those options, according to cnn, nuke the pool. Yeah, he's going with the Iran attack. Except options are referring the prosecutors involved to a bar disciplinary authority filing lawsuits seeking more of the grand jury recording documenting the prosecutor's presentation of the indictment. Because they did get an indictment asking the judge to dismiss the case so it can't be brought again because pira's office only dismissed it without prej. Meaning that prosecutors wouldn't be barred from attempting to revive the case later. So they need to go further and make sure that they.

[Jon Lovett]

Tough.

[Jon Favreau]

Never. Can never bring it again.

[Jon Lovett]

Tough case to bring again. When you have the prosecutor saying that. That they were misled by the department

[Tommy Vietor]

of the like the tough.

[Jon Favreau]

But not, not unprecedented for this case.

[Jon Lovett]

Sure, sure. But I would say it's like, my question would be. Is like, is are we going to. Are we suing these? Like where? Let's we get this guy some cash. Get some cash for this guy.

[Tommy Vietor]

Get some more documents released. Pod Save America is brought to you by article. Article makes it effortless to build a home that lasts without the boutique markup. Their curated collections of mid century coastal and Scandi furniture are designed to mix and match perfectly so you can create a cohesive designer look that will stand the test of time. We got a bunch of great article stuff at this office. It looks good. It was.

[Jon Favreau]

They.

[Tommy Vietor]

It all showed up really fast. It was more affordable. We got some really comfy couches and chairs and desks and just like a ton of great stuff that all work together, even though we bought them in many different times. Article offers fast, affordable shipping across the US And Canada with options for professional assembly. If you prefer a hands off experience, have a question or need help with your design choices? Article's customer care team is available seven days a week offering knowledgeable support and even free interior design services to help you get your home just right. With Article's 30 day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence, knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it. This peace of mind ensures you can invest in your home without hesitation. Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit article.comcrooked and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com crooked for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

[Jon Favreau]

Pod Save America is brought to you by Wild Alaskan Co. The difference between low and high quality seafood is enormous, but it's also one tough to accurately assess for yourself in the grocery store. Wild Alaskan Company offers the best way to get Wild caught high quality seafood delivered to your door on your schedule. Each Wild Alaskan box comes with individually portioned fillets, vacuum sealed, easy to prep and great for any meal no matter how quick or elevated. All fish is quick frozen fresh from the Alaskan waters, which helps lock in its freshness, texture, flavor and key nutrients like omega 3s. It's fish you can trust with no GMOs, antibiotics or other additives. Every order supports sustainable harvesting practices and Alaskan fisherman whose history is tied to the region and practice. I had some a while back. It's, it's great. I love, I love Wild Alaskan. I really like their tuna. You know, it's, it's really, it tastes great. Wild Alaskan company so confident that their fish is the best that they offer 100 satisfaction and money back guarantee. So you can try your first box risk free. Go to wildalaskan.comcrooked for $35 off your first order of premium wild caught seafood. That's wildalaskan.com crooked for $35 off your first order. Speaking of Trump cabinet kooks, RFK Jr. He made an appearance on CNN's State of the Union with Dana Bash on Sunday morning for a thoughtful conversation about the nation's health. Let's take a listen.

[Donald Trump]

I will literally eat anything because I don't have.

[Tommy Vietor]

I don't have. But even with a drug reflex, let me put it like that.

[Jon Lovett]

It's what Lindsey Graham said in heaven.

[Tommy Vietor]

Wow.

[Francesca Hong]

Wow.

[Jon Favreau]

I just wanted to play that for you guys. That was not the Dana Bash conversation, but that is what the Health and Human Service Secretary is up to.

[Jon Lovett]

It's such a weird way to describe

[Tommy Vietor]

why you'll eat anything. It's not like I have an adventurous palate I enjoy all kinds of food. It's like nothing makes me puke.

[Jon Favreau]

I don't have a gag reflex. Okay, good to know. Write it down. All right, let's check out the actual conversation with Dana Bash. Protected children.

[Jon Lovett]

I think that what I have talked to scientists and doctors about scientists.

[Jon Favreau]

Can you look.

[Tommy Vietor]

Can you show me one study?

[Francesca Hong]

Yes.

[Jon Lovett]

You are saying nonsense.

[Tommy Vietor]

You are saying something that you cannot show me a single study.

[Jon Lovett]

I am not saying nonsense.

[Jon Favreau]

I am talking.

[Tommy Vietor]

What?

[Francesca Hong]

Excuse me.

[Jon Lovett]

Somebody told you excuse me.

[Tommy Vietor]

And you let me show me. What study? What study?

[Francesca Hong]

No, what studies are you talking about?

[Jon Lovett]

You're talking about studies that actually don't exist. And I really want to move on. But you were saying.

[Tommy Vietor]

You were saying part of the problem.

[Jon Lovett]

No, I wasn't part of the problem.

[Tommy Vietor]

There was absolute press malpractice.

[Jon Lovett]

Okay, are you going to. You want to sit here and attack me or do you want to have conversations? I'm not attacking you. I'm asking questions about how to defend the next question. And I'll tell you that's what I'm trying to do.

[Tommy Vietor]

But, Dana, you probably don't understand this because you're not a scientist, but.

[Donald Trump]

Jesus.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, you're not either.

[Jon Favreau]

So what did you guys think of that uncomfortable and somewhat infuriating interview?

[Jon Lovett]

So it is so hard.

[Jon Favreau]

20 minutes. That went, by the way.

[Jon Lovett]

20 minutes. And it's a brutal 20 minutes. And it is very difficult to in real time, fact check someone who is all over the fucking place. Mischaracterizing studies. Ask me to prove the negative in the next sentence. Grabbing for all kinds of things. The Mennonites aren't vaccinated, actually. Lyme disease is from gain of function research. And you're all over the place. And this is where it's like, you know what I think, Dana? Trying to call upon the history of recalling expertise and things, you've revived. And this is where I think what makes it so difficult is that rfk, his whole thesis, right? Is that, like, this is all pretty nefarious, right? He says, like, oh, the ICUs were actually empty. They were lying about basically how full all the ICUs were because they were trying to scare people and control people. You're being misled by all the experts, and I'm the one here to tell the truth. And you're just gonna recite the experts that I have the real facts about. But he doesn't. Like, RSV is not from gain of function research. That's a lie. Lyme disease is.

[Jon Favreau]

Nor is Lyme disease.

[Jon Lovett]

Lyme disease is not from gain of function.

[Tommy Vietor]

They found the Lyme disease bacteria in a fat 5000 year old prehistoric fossil.

[Jon Lovett]

Covid. Covid. Multiple studies have shown that Covid protects. Show me one study that Covid vaccines protect kids. Tons of studies show that Covid protects kids. There was one that found that the only kids in the ICU from inflammation due to Covid were unvaccinated kids. Just over and over and over again, these like, like, you can't show me this and you can't show me that. Well, maybe not while sitting there kind of being peppered with bullshit from RFK Jr. With sort of misogynistic, you're not a scientist shit. But of course he's just like, you know, dissembling and misleading and lying about what the evidence is.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, I think she did a good job at some points. Less good at the other, like the very top. He says the US had the highest death rate from COVID That's just not even close to true. Peru had the highest death rate. Per capita. We had the highest death toll. But that's largely a function of having the third highest population in the world.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, we're down to like 18 for the teens. For.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

And also they get into this weird place where like a bunch of countries with, you know, less stable governments don't have the resources to collect all the data. So we don't really know all this stuff. She asked, she asked the question about, she asked him about gain of function research and then he came back with this lie saying RSV and Lyme disease were created by gain of function research, which is just unequivocally not true. And I think you do have to be prepared on that one to be like, that is absolutely not true. Now, the question phrasing itself was kind of strange. It was sort of like in defense of gain of function research. I'm not sure that was the most valuable question. And then she kept pushing to move on, which is complicated because then you kind of sound slippery. I think it got better and more constructive in the measles section because she really just wanted to pin him down and get him to say yes, like, get your kid the MMR vaccine. There's a horrible measles outbreak. It's deadly for kids. But then RFK says, I never questioned the efficacy of the MMR vaccine. Yes, he did. He said it wanes. He called it leaky. That's a lie. It's like 90% effective. It has lifelong protection. 90% of measles cases are unvaccinated people or of an unknown status. Now, I had to research all of that to kind of fact check this guy. It is why he's so already so slippery and condescending. But when you interview that guy, that's the job.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. I think this is how conspiracy theorists, especially with science and medicine, this is how they work, which is scientific judgment is not like every single scientist and every single study for all of time agrees on the same thing. It's the preponderance of evidence points one direction. Maybe there's one study that says something else, and then the conspiracy theorist latches onto the one study and is like, well, maybe that's the study. Maybe that's the study that actually tells the truth. And all the other experts are wrong. And every time Xi could cite a study, he could cite a study back. The best way to get him is, Tommy, what you just said, which is if he claims that he said something, you can be like, no, this is actually what you said. You know, and you can put it up. Yeah, put it up. But.

[Tommy Vietor]

Or just say, studied these nuts. It's also a safe and effective way to reply.

[Jon Favreau]

But when you're going. When you're going study by study and science by science, this is. This is like, you know, it's a microcosm of how we all fucked up the pandemic so badly. Right. Is that it's just a bunch of. Now everyone can go find their own research and can go find some study or some scientist or some asshole on Twitter who debunks scientific evidence that is overwhelming. Like, that's the whole story of how we went through the pandemic.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

It's all like, and now the guy is fucking Health and Human Services Secretary.

[Jon Lovett]

Right. He also just more broadly, deeply mischaracterizes the body of research on autism, from vaccines to Tylenol, in part because if you're doing tons and tons of studies, one study may show a correlation, and then some more research is done, and they say, you know what? Actually, we took that correlation research and we ran another analysis across a much bigger sample to see what would happen between siblings. Right? And actually turns out that that correlation doesn't produce causation. When you look at it another way. And this is a much deeper bit of research. And so, you know, while nothing is ever known for certain, we believe this is just sort of something that you can say, there's no evidence for, but that's not acceptable. But this is why I come back to the ICU thing. Like, why? What is. Like, this is where I think you have to go, so you're saying all of these scientists are lying or misleading because, what, they want kids to get sick? They want kids to get autism? What if that.

[Tommy Vietor]

Newsrooms are lying too. Newsrooms were saying that New York City ers were full and they were making it up. What on earth are you. Donald Trump was president. If that were happening, he would have gotten to the bottom of it. That's his hometown. It's fucking insane.

[Jon Favreau]

And what's the motivation that they just. They wanted everyone to stay home.

[Jon Lovett]

They wanted to scare people.

[Jon Favreau]

They wanted to scare people by mail eventually to have everyone stay home. And then I guess they all probably had, you know, business connections to the pharmaceutical companies. Big ass. Yeah, well, to try to get the vaccine. That's why they're all pushing the vaccine.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, this was also, like, there were people running around with video cameras trying to prove that the ICU's in their town or their place were empty. And it was like, well, that's not the COVID ward. And by the way, yeah, like, they're worried there's about to be a huge influx of patients, et cetera, et cetera. And like, it's all this idea that, like, you can't trust anybody. You can't trust the experts, you can't trust the science. Like, did these. Did Fauci and all. Do they. Like, you know, there was plenty of ways in which they were trying to be, I think, you know, too declarative, afraid of giving people nuance because they. They weren't able to. They weren't sure what they could trust the public with, in part because there was so, so much misinformation. But these were people desperately trying to figure out what to do in the middle of an emergency. And he sits there, like, kind of leaning back, being like, it was all a lie. They were all lying. It is so fucking disgusting.

[Jon Favreau]

But this is the whole. I mean, this all came from the Fauci hearings last week, which we didn't really talk about on the pod, but basically they decided that because they found that in Fauci's private journal. He was like, it's so cool to be me and meet celebrities. I'm like the most famous person in the world. They're like, that shows that he killed everyone.

[Tommy Vietor]

Fauci, like, butt dialed Barbra Streisand again.

[Jon Favreau]

What a voice. And they're like, exactly like, sir, that proves it. That proves that you did everything wrong.

[Tommy Vietor]

Look, yeah, God forbid we have an

[Jon Lovett]

egomaniac in charge during a pandemic.

[Tommy Vietor]

Is it great for medical research? And the scientific community to have the clips out there of Fauci pleading the Fifth, however many times in front of this hearing about COVID Terrible, obviously, is terrible. Do I understand why he did it from a legal perspective? Kind of. I read half an article on this because I'm not obsessed with. I do think I am. There is, like, I'm just kidding. Like, it was just sort of an asymmetric story where Republicans are obsessed with this and Democrats are like, I wanna think of anything but the pandemic. It was the worst couple years of my life.

[Jon Favreau]

None of us wanna go back. America agrees, you know?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah. But. Yeah, it is just.

[Donald Trump]

I don't know.

[Tommy Vietor]

Bobby Kennedy, man, That's who's in charge.

[Jon Favreau]

All right, it's primary day in Michigan and we got some midterm news to talk about, including a big announcement of our own. Today, Vote Save America is launching what we're calling the Crooked Dozen. Twelve of the most vulnerable House Republicans who we can put out of a job this November. But we need your help, dear listener. If you go to votesaveamerica.com right now and sign up, you will get practical, concrete steps that you can take to help flip these seats and lots of others up and down the ballot. You're gonna get information on where to donate, where to volunteer, how to make sure your friends and family are getting the best information about the races. Lots more information. It literally takes two seconds to sign [e-mail] and if you're already signed up, grab a couple friends, have them sign up, too. We're trying to get as many people as possible. We did this back with the crooked seven back in 2018.

[Tommy Vietor]

Worked pretty damn well then.

[Jon Favreau]

It did. Yeah, I think we got almost all of them. And. Yeah, so we're trying to raise money for the Democratic candidates who are gonna take these folks on and also just get some volunteers going. As an added incentive, we do have some news about one of the Crooked Dozen, Max Miller, the Republican representing Ohio's 7th district south of Cleveland. You may already be following this incredibly disturbing story. In 2024, Miller and his wife, Emily Moreno, who's the daughter of Republican Senator Bernie Moreno, got divorced and the custody battle for their two year old daughter ended up in court. As part of that court fight, Emily Moreno said that Miller repeatedly abused her, scalding her with hot water, holding a gun to her head, and breaking their daughter's collarbone. The allegations, which Miller denies, started getting more attention over the last week or so when Senator Moreno refused to comment or call for his ex son in law resign and to quit his campaign. Miller then delivered a 20 minute livestream statement on Sunday morning where he did not drop out, but accused Emily Moreno of being a stalker and saying things like this.

[Tommy Vietor]

If I had assaulted her, would she had offered to cook me dinner six days later? Would she have invited me to spend an afternoon at the playground with her and our daughter? Would she have written that we were in a friendlier place? No, she wouldn't have. Ladies and gentlemen, the boiling water story the media has run with. That story is about an incident in June of 2024 while we were still married. And here's the truth, and this is the absolute truth. It was horseplay in our kitchen. If these accusations were true, I would be in jail.

[Jon Favreau]

That is just. He also posted and then deleted a Dropbox folder of audio he'd recorded of her, some of which contradicted his own claims. And then he took it down. After that disgusting display, Bernie Moreno, the senator, his former father in law, finally spoke out, posted a long statement that said, among other things, that the two years since the divorce have been pure hell, that he holds his breath every time Miller has custody of his granddaughter and that, quote, if there are any basic standards of character required to hold elected office, Max Miller fails them. He should not serve in the House of Representatives. Miller then immediately called him a liar. So I assume there's been a groundswell of Republicans now calling for Miller to step aside. Right. Trump was in the Oval Office, was asked about that and said, well, he's a good person, good person, terrible situation. I guess the family will have to decide. The family will have to decide. What do you guys make of the whole situation?

[Tommy Vietor]

I mean, Max Miller should be in prison, not Congress, period. He is lying, abusive, scum. This is not the only instance of him being accused of abuse. He was accused of beating his ex girlfriend, Stephanie Grisham, who worked in the Trump White House. She said he threw her up against a wall and slapped her. Politico reported that Miller pushed a female high school classmate down a flight of stairs because she refused his sexual advances. There's another alleged incident of Miller abusing a woman in college. We don't really know the details there, but it's been mentioned in court transcripts he had a bunch of violent fights and incidents in high school or in his early 20s. So this guy is clearly has a pattern of alleged abuse and I think that should be enough for him to be thrown out of Congress. But Republicans have not. Most Republicans either just duck the question or you Know, want to preserve their majority. Now, like, there's a lot of focus has been put on Bernie Moreno and his response. He's an Ohio senator. His daughter is the one in making these allegations. I think my. My gut reaction when I read his, when he wouldn't respond was like, that he had failed his basic job as a father and was a coward. And to really condemn him more than others. The more I thought about it, the more I was like, I don't know. You don't know what's happening inside of family. You don't know what his conversations with his daughter are like. You don't know the fear that he could have about his granddaughter who had joint custody. So I don't know. I feel like I need to dial it back a bit. Emily's mother, yeah, it's complicated.

[Jon Favreau]

And so, like, she was really upset. And so I think he didn't. I mean, but, like, whatever. He got it done.

[Tommy Vietor]

But, like, Jim Jordan was on. Congressman Jim Jordan was on TV and was asked about this. I think it was CNN or maybe it was Ms. Now. And just absolutely will not draw a moral line in the sand for this man who's clearly a fucking scumbag.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, Jim Jordan has sort of a history of refusing to do that. Yeah. The statement from Bernie Marino makes clear that he felt like he was trying to avoid speaking out about it on his daughter's behalf. Trump is refusing to condemn him, which is leading to no one else being willing to call on him to resign. If he doesn't step back by Wednesday, I believe he'll be on the ballot. So he's hanging on. Now, if Max Miller seems to have this history, obviously there are these allegations in this marriage. There's allegations in previous relationships, allegations of other violence in the past. Whatever has been said publicly, that means that Stephanie Grisham was close to Donald Trump. That means that there are people. The senators are aware of this. Other members of the House are aware of this. The White House is aware of this, that this guy is fucking violent piece of shit. And they have all just been, what, silent about it, ignoring about it, keeping their heads down.

[Tommy Vietor]

Trump called him a good person. He's basically a character witness.

[Jon Favreau]

Should say, too, that what broke this whole thing open was Abby Vasoulis of Mother Jones reported there, like, she broke the story on July 18, where she just went through all of the court documents that were out there and all the filings. And it is. I mean, it's a tough read, but, like, a child protection specialist reviewed the incident, characterized the Bruising near the fracture as resembling a handprint. Now, Miller's story is that the daughter, it was a seat belt that, like, the car stopped short.

[Donald Trump]

Whatever.

[Jon Favreau]

The Emily Moreno doesn't believe this, of course. And then the child protection specialist said, it's a handprint. And apparently the daughter said, daddy's house is scary to her mother. And also he contradicted himself in the court filings because first he said he didn't pour hot water on her neck. And then he said in the next sentence, well, the water incident, I never thought that that hurt you.

[Tommy Vietor]

There's no horseplay with boiling water.

[Jon Favreau]

No. Which is basically admitting that it was. That he actually did it. So he's a liar. He's had a violent past. He obviously should not be believed. And it is crazy that Republicans are not immediately calling for this guy to drop out of Congress. Drop out of the race, let alone Congress. Yeah, it's disgusting.

[Tommy Vietor]

I mean, like, doing that to a two year old makes you want to drive over to his house with a baseball bat and solve it that way. I mean, that's the part that's like, the whole story is absolutely sickening. This is an evil person. I hope they indict him and lock him up.

[Jon Favreau]

And I hope every single Republican is forced to have to answer the questions about this and, like, and just stammers into the fucking camera because, you know, none of them can cross Trump because Trump didn't tell him to drop out.

[Tommy Vietor]

And it's not just him. I mean, there's a guy named Corey Mills who's another Republican from Florida who is accused of some sort of physical abuse of a woman. He was also accused of, like, sextortion and threatening to release nude images of her. And Republicans, again, they just pretend this is not happening. I mean, he's under investigation by the House Ethics Committee for, like, some sorts of violations, but no one's calling for his expulsion.

[Jon Favreau]

And it's like with Miller too, he's, well, I'm not gonna drop out. For people who wanna try this in the court of public opinion, it's like, no, no, no, it's not being tried in the court of public opinion. We have actual court court documents. That's where it is. Like, we have, we have silence from court. We have testimony. This is not just hearsay that people are talking about. There's actual document.

[Tommy Vietor]

Pod Save America is brought to you by ag. One Summer means enjoying yourself and taking it easy. Maybe some of your wellness goals took a back seat in the process, but that's okay. Now that you're getting back on track. Make AG1 the non negotiable part of your routine. 1 Scoop 8 ounces of cold water every morning before the chaos starts. AG1 helps to maintain energy and fortify immune health. It's clinically shown to support gut health and fill in common nutrient gaps. AG1 is a daily health drink with a multivitamin, pre and probiotic, superfoods and antioxidants. Even though summer is your license to chill, AG1 helps keep one thing consistent high quality nutritional support every single day no matter where you start your morning. The next gen formula delivers 75 plus ingredients clinically shown to improve key nutrient levels within three months. Now I use AG1 every day. Use it today in fact, I often make a smoothie in the morning and that's my breakfast. But even when I don't, you just mix it in water still tastes good and I don't know. I highly recommend it. I like it. It's a great way to get a bunch of greens in your body early without, you know, having to go to the supermarket every other day. To buy spinach or whatever, visit drinkag1.com crooked and get a free AG1 flavor sampler and a free bottle of vitamin D3 plus K2 in your welcome kit with your first AG1 subscription order. That's drinkag1.com crooked pod Save America is

[Jon Favreau]

brought to you by Sleep Me. When was the last time you went to bed before midnight without scrolling? Doomscrolling the latest news cycle keeps your brain buzzing. And worse, it raises your core body temperature. Just one more thing that's bad about it. A body that's too warm can't fall into a deep restorative sleep. You're not just mentally exhausted, your body never actually recovered from the day. The fix is simple. Lower your bed temperature. Enter Chillipad 2.0, the water based mattress topper that actively controls your bed temperature from 55 to 115 degrees all night long. No new mattress. No renovation. It fits over what you already have. Chilipad 2.0 actively cools or warms your bed using water, and water is key here. Chillipad uses actively chilled water to cool the bed, actually pulling heat away from your body. It's like the difference between standing in front of a fan and jumping into a cold pool. Love Chilipad. It really works. And it's so nice to have a bed that is like cool and doesn't heat up in the middle of the night. Especially if like, you know, you're fighting with your partner over the temperature in their room and they want it a little warmer. You have the chilipad on and you can make your side of the bed pretty cool. It's fantastic. Visit Sleep me crooked to get up to $255 off your Chilipad 2.0 with code CROOKED. That's S L E E P me crooked. Free shipping, free returns and a 30 night trial so you can test it out. Dream big and wake up better. The headlines will still be there in the morning. You might as well wake up ready for them. All right, so as you're listening to this, it's election day in Michigan where Abdul El Sayed and Haley Stevens are fighting it out for the Senate nomination. Any thoughts from you guys on Haley and Abdul's closing messages or anything else from the last few days of campaigning? You know, got a little heated.

[Jon Lovett]

You did get a little heated. This race, this one number that jumped out at me which just sort of is a preview of coming attractions because we don't know what's gonna happen tomorrow. But that in I think it's the Emerson poll that under 50 Abdul is leading Haley Stevens 67 to 25 over 60, Stevens is leading 53 to 39. And like that is like remarkable. That is a crazy gap. And it just like whatever happens in this race, whether or not Haley Stevens and you know, whatever 30 to 60 million, whatever number from AIPAC in ads plus concerns that Abdul will lose to Mike Robbins, whatever it is, if whatever eking out of victory that is possible tomorrow like this tells you the direction that the party is going and if people want an alternative to left candidates or if they think the left candidates don't represent their point of view. I think we've seen over and over again that unless there is a center left or center that can offer something more exciting, persuasive, optimistic, something for people to grab onto. I think though the establishment will keep being surprised by when given the choice between our candidate or else. People keep choosing or else.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, I think so much of the conversation about this race is focused on the meta stakes and what it means for the party and also the exchanging of barbs, the attacks and the money, a lot of trading apac and stuff. But I was reading this New Yorker interview Abdul did over the weekend during my own little brush with the healthcare industry in this country and how fun it can be. And I was reminded why I'm so excited about his candidacy. Like he is a fundamentally optimistic, hopeful guy who brings real expertise as a doctor and a health professional to the job.

[Jon Favreau]

Not RK junior Level.

[Tommy Vietor]

No, he is like an incredibly talented speaker. He's a good human being. We're lucky enough to know him. And it just reminded me to be excited about him and the fact that he could potentially be a U.S. senator. And there was this graph in the story that really just jumped out at me that I wanted to read about because he talks about how his story and his parents story is only possible in America, this sort of like fundamentally patriotic, optimistic story. And then he couches why he is hopeful about fixing the broken US Health care system in his optimism about America as well. He says the thing about America is that we don't do things like other people, we do them better. I love that about our country and that's obviously very like Obama 08 coded and part of why I like it. And I think there's a risk of just cut and not cut and pasting. But like, you know, that rhetoric from that era, it was a different time. The world is, the electorate now is in a darker place. Ecum inequality is worse. Younger people feel even more hopeless about the system, about the economy, about their prospects in life. So you don't want to just kind of like repeat, you know, the Obama era optimism. But I do think, because it could sound naive, but I do think that what Abdul is getting at is talking about problems and systemic challenges, but then giving people some hope that he actually can fix it or that we have the capacity to fix them as a nation. And I think that has been missing in a lot of the political debate that is either just about Trump or about how cooked we are because of capitalism.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, the national discourse has sort of lumped in all the left candidates together is like they're all socialists and they all believe the same thing and it's all, none of them will be able to win. And you know, some have pretty extreme positions and we've talked about them before and you know, I've been even critical of some of, you know, the way Abdul has said some things too over the, in this race. But I thought that was the, I thought this was the best interview that he has given. And if you are open minded and still unsure about Abdul, I would absolutely read this with David Remnick in the New Yorker. I thought it was really, really great. Look, if Abdul wins the primary, if the polls are correct, it is going to be a difficult general election. And you know, the gold standard poll in Michigan came out over the weekend and has him down a few to Mike Rogers. And Haley Stevens performed better in that poll. I don't think that means he can't win by any means. But I think that what he's going to have to do to be victorious is exactly what he did, I think in that interview and talk like he did in that interview and because it shows a love of country, it's like a liberal patriotism. He talks about how he's a capitalist. He talks about, he has criticized, he's criticized Obama in the past, as we know. He was very complimentary and he just, he seems extremely thoughtful. Like he just didn't get into this race because he wanted to like throw out slogans and all this kind of stuff. Like it seems like he has fought all this stuff through, especially healthcare.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, he's just a really, really smart guy who is like hands on experience tackling these problems and will be really good at the job. And it's exciting to think about not just how these people campaign, but what they'd be like in the job. And I think post primary assuming of dual wins, we don't know, but a lot of the polls suggest he will, he will have to do a lot of work to kind of get back Haley Stevens supporters. I think he's done a really good job in recent weeks of kind of tamping down supporters who cross the line, who like make fun of Haley Stevens in ways that are just, just sexist or inappropriate or just mean. There's going to have to be more of that. You know, like after burnt when it looked like Bernie was winning in 2020, a lot of his supporters were telling other people to bend the knee and shit like that. And it's just like such a toxic, terrible way to consolidate an electorate. And then it'll be incumbent on everyone, no matter how bruised their feelings are, to just remember that this is about, you know, winning the Senate seat and denying Mike Rogers this election and making it a referendum on Trump, like a vote for Rogers, a vote for Trump. And, and Rogers is trying to kind of avoid all hard questions, like, I

[Jon Favreau]

don't know, if you guys just do the semaphore thing.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, he won't talk about the weaponization fund. He wouldn't comment on Iran.

[Jon Favreau]

How would he. So Nicholas Wood did this interview with him. How would he vote on the multiple Senate approved measures to condemn President Donald Trump's tariffs? I don't know. Where does he stand on Trump's anti weaponization fund? Quote, I'm not talking about any of that stuff. I don't care. I mean, I care. As for the Iran war, he said he'd heard, quote, hardly anything from constituents on the trail about it. This guy has been living in Florida.

[Tommy Vietor]

Florida, yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

So he retired, bought a house in Florida, tried to run in 2024, lost to Slotkin, and now he's trying to revive himself again. So, yes, he definitely should tie him to Trump with good reason. But Mike Rogers, just as a character on his own, is just looking to be defined right out of the gate. And I think that if I. That's like number one on Abdul's list or if Haley wins hurtless as part

[Tommy Vietor]

of the corruption story of, like, Trump, like this guy who was in government, lost, left, and went and made a bunch of money, you know, like helping out the industries he used to regulate.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

This whole idea that he is maybe more moderate or more old school Republican establishment than some of these guys. Like, I think that the corruption and the tie to Trump and just sort of the, like, out of touch sort of vibes he gives off from having been in Florida for a while and not really caring about all these issues is a real weakness for him, but it's gotta be exploited.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. Like, this is where sometimes I like, there's just. We're gonna have to do politics. Maybe Abdul starts a little bit further behind than Haley Stevens would. Okay. Do you believe in politics? Do you believe in the ability to persuade? Do you think Abdul will be a better senator than Mike Rogers? I do. Do you think it's more important to have a Democratic Senate than any criticism or concern you might have about Abdul's being further to the left than you? I do. So maybe other people can be persuaded of that as well. As long as everybody kind of after this primary is over, figures out how to come together. Like, there have been moments in this. Look, there's. The left is a big fractious group of people. There have been moments in a lot of these primaries where it is clear that some people who are part of these problems primaries care more about winning factional fights against Democrats than they do about actually beating Republicans. There have been bad moments in interviews where I think Abdul has reflected that aspect of the movement. But when he is at his best, when he is speaking about what governing can actually do, a kind of broad and optimistic vision for the country. I think, yes, that is somebody that has absolutely can kind of build support in Michigan, especially with someone who's supposed to be like the toughest one to beat. Mike Rogers. Come on. I think everybody needs to figure out how to come together and then make that argument.

[Jon Favreau]

Last thing before we get to my conversation with Francesca Hong. I promise you, we do not enjoy talking about Ken Martin and the drama at the dnc. But unfortunately, the news keeps on coming. The latest is a story from the New York Times in which Paul Rivera, the personal friend to whom Martin assigned the fabled autopsy, claims that when Martin did finally release the report, he omitted a chapter that Rivera wrote titled what happened in 2024. It seems like something you'd want in a report about what happened in 2024. Just a minor detail. The chapter criticized Biden's decision to run for reelection as perhaps, perhaps, quote, the single point of failure for 2024. It also criticized senior Democratic strategists for being too rich to understand the struggles of most Americans. Rivera gave the Times the full text of the allegedly missing chapter. Martin denies ever seeing or knowing about it at all, despite Rivera saying he handed him a binder, a three ring binder with the chapter in it. So this pits two incompetent people against each other who have also been, well, at least in Ken Martin's case, deceptive in the past. So even if Ken Martin is telling the truth, this is part of the reason that you don't lie to people, because it is hard to believe you when you haven't been honest about everything in the past.

[Jon Lovett]

I just want to read the first line in this supposedly sort of this secret and damning chapter. American Politics is a study in inflection points.

[Jon Favreau]

It sure is.

[Jon Lovett]

Boy, it sure is a land of contradictions, I find.

[Jon Favreau]

What'd you guys make of the whole thing?

[Jon Lovett]

I am sure that to Ken Martin, this all feels very unfair from this original sin of putting this guy in charge of the autopsy, getting something back that was sort of incompetent and that would create a bunch of controversy, but not actually address our problems, deciding to not release it. Like I see how at each step, it's one mistake and it leads to others and others and others tangled web. And so there's that sort of, that cascade of mistakes, and then there's the sort of the cascade of the money going out to places where they don't elect senators or House members because you promise to kind of invest all over the place, including in the territories, people having questions about your fundraising and all of this sort of building on itself. And that now even though there are parts of your program that you think make sense and are good, it's unfair because there's no way for you to gain purchase. You can't. The fundraising is anemic because people don't trust you. You need to have more money on the books. Otherwise people Keep reporting how much more the RNC has. This guy comes out with a stupid fucking chapter. Maybe you saw it, maybe you didn't, but it only proves that you were right, that his work wasn't worthy of release in the first place. Even though people are mad at you thinking it's some sort of conspiracy. That all may be frustrating. Too fucking bad. We need the money. We need a DNC chair people can trust. You are not that. Whether it happens now or after the elections in November, it doesn't really matter. But the idea that this guy's gonna be in charge of the Democratic National Committee as we head into the presidential is ridiculous.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, the original sin was asking your buddy Paul Rivera to do this report because he's just not in any way credentialed to do. I think the last presidential campaign he worked on was in 2004 for Al Gore.

[Jon Favreau]

John Kerry.

[Tommy Vietor]

Oh, sorry, John Kerry, yeah, Al Gore.

[Jon Favreau]

I remember that campaign.

[Tommy Vietor]

And then Rivera worked for this New York State Senate leader who was convicted of federal fraud. And people who worked around Rivera in that era in New York State Senate said, first of all, it was a horrible period of politics for the Democratic parties, this corrupt, awful state Senate group. And then that Rivera personally was just sort of a weird behind the scenes guy who didn't. They didn't know what he did ever. He was in no way the right person to do this report. So picking that guy was the original sin. And then there was, as always, the COVID up was worse than the crime. And spiking the report and then lying about the report. And now Rivera said is. Now Rivera says Ken is lying about the release of this chapter. I don't trust either messenger here. I'm inclined to believe that if this guy wrote this chapter, he would have given it to Ken Martin personally, because why would you lie about this? I don't think there was some strategic brilliance in this chapter.

[Donald Trump]

Right.

[Tommy Vietor]

Or anything really worth covering up. But I think what this does is once again raise questions about whether Ken Martin is an honest person. And I don't think he is. And I think if you are stepping on rakes all the time, and if you are lying all the time, you should not be leading the Democratic Party on top of the fundraising failures. So, yeah, it's just this is a real fun weekend for anyone who wants to close the book on the 2024 election. When we also have Hunter Biden saying his dad's debate performance was bad because he had cancer, but also still lashing out at anyone who said that that bad debate Performance meant that he should have dropped out of the race.

[Jon Favreau]

Wild thing to say.

[Tommy Vietor]

One would think that if the cancer was so bad and problematic that it would lead you to not be able to debate. It would mean you can't be president for 24 years.

[Jon Favreau]

And it didn't just. It's not just the type of cancer that manifests on stage in a national stage.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, it must have been relieved that it wasn't a stroke.

[Jon Favreau]

His wife thought it was.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

There was a scoop today from Notice that Martin told DNC members on a members only call that he's convening a special finance committee to help help with fundraising. So I don't know who's in that committee, but hopefully it works.

[Tommy Vietor]

If you're a state party.

[Jon Favreau]

George Clooney.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah. If you're a state party and you are hanging on to Ken Martin because you get a check every month, at some point, you have to realize that that check's going to stop coming when there's no money.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

It's like two things can be true. It can be great that Ken Martin sent you a check and that you've been able to hire more staffers. Like, that is important to invest in state parties. But also, like, you do need the money to do that.

[Francesca Hong]

Right.

[Jon Favreau]

Like, that's. You'll have to fire them to raise the money.

[Tommy Vietor]

You can't when there's no money.

[Jon Favreau]

Right, Exactly.

[Francesca Hong]

Exactly.

[Jon Favreau]

Which seems like a problem. Did you guys see that? There's a lot of rapid response coming out of the DNC to try to defend their work they're doing. Because look at a lot of. There's fantastic people at the DNC working really hard. This cannot be easy for them. But one staffer put out a video where he's petting his cat and telling people that everything's good at the dnc. There's some background music. It was deleted.

[Jon Lovett]

It was deleted before I had a chance to see it. To be honest. I never actually got. I saw the still of it, but I never actually got to see it. The video itself, sadly for me.

[Tommy Vietor]

Undelete the cat video. I liked it. It got attention.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. Great.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

No bad press. No bad press.

[Francesca Hong]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

He was, like, stroking, like, it looks

[Jon Favreau]

like it wasn't authorized.

[Tommy Vietor]

If it was, it was pretty sure it was unauthorized. It did have, I think, an unintentional Dr. Evil kind of connotation.

[Jon Lovett]

So when I was a kid, Inspector Gadget, the opening credits.

[Jon Favreau]

Oh, yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

There's a moment where you never see Dr. Claude. He's always petting a cat. With one hand. And then there's a moment in which he runs up to the chair in front of a fireplace, spins it around, and there's the arm, but it's attached to a spring. And then the chair blows up.

[Tommy Vietor]

Oh, no.

[Jon Lovett]

And I thought as a kid that the villain was a chair with a spring attached to it and that he was trying to kill Inspector Gadget.

[Tommy Vietor]

Very literal kid.

[Jon Lovett]

And I. Yes, a lot of these things could have been diagnosed earlier, I think.

[Tommy Vietor]

But I thought the Never Ending Story was named that because the credits were so long.

[Jon Lovett]

What a song. Hmm.

[Tommy Vietor]

It's funny that petting a cat is evil coded. And petting a puppy is like the way you soften your image.

[Jon Lovett]

Odd and smart.

[Francesca Hong]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

Mike Vrabel at press conferences being like, what? Infidelity.

[Jon Lovett]

That's right.

[Jon Favreau]

Anyway, more cats from the dnc. All right, when we come back, Wisconsin gubernatorial candidate Francesca Humm. Hey, Dan Taburski here. I'm a podcast host, a journalist, and now with my newest project, the author of my own Manifest.

[Tommy Vietor]

Well, it's a manifesto about manifestos, my

[Jon Favreau]

search for inspiration in a world that feels more infuriating, more out of its

[Tommy Vietor]

freaking mind with each passing hour. Manifestos are a call to action, an artful scream.

[Jon Favreau]

They capture our anger and they try

[Tommy Vietor]

to do something with it.

[Jon Favreau]

This is my attempt to take the

[Tommy Vietor]

manifesto back from mass shooters and nihilists

[Jon Favreau]

and return it to its rightful place with the warriors, the visionaries, the regular folks with. With just the right amount of crazy.

[Tommy Vietor]

I compare notes with radicals, secessionists, Internet

[Jon Favreau]

trolls out for a laugh, and punk

[Tommy Vietor]

singers screaming their guts out, all trying

[Jon Favreau]

to turn their anger into the world they want to see. Listen to Manifesto wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes of Manifesto early and ad free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts.

[Tommy Vietor]

Hey, It's Tommy from Pod Save America and Pod Save the World. Last year, 2,500 people joined us at CrookedCon for conversations with some of the smartest organizers, least annoying politicians, and most interesting voices in politics to talk about how to fix this mess. Even President Obama made a surprise appearance. We're doing it all again November 5th to 7th in Washington, D.C. with even more podcasts, panels, and workshops. Plus, there'll be drinks, which we'll need after the midterms, no matter which way they go. Get tickets. [e-mail] if you're a friend of the pod, you get a discount, too. See you there.

[Jon Favreau]

Francesca Hong. Welcome to Pod Save America.

[Francesca Hong]

Happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

[Jon Favreau]

I know this has to be a busy week for you, so thanks for doing this. And just to start off, you know, I think it is incredibly important for Wisconsin to have a Democratic governor because we can't have an election denier like Tom Tiffany in a position to certify or not certify the 2028 elections. But since Republicans will spend an ungodly amount of money to defeat you if you're the nominee to try to defeat you, I just want to make sure you have the best possible answers to what's coming. So I want to start with your 2020 posts supporting defunding the police, quote, as a first step towards abolishing the police, which in a separate post you said, quote, exists to uphold white supremacy. Now I know you've said you're not running to defund the police. It's not something you can do as governor and that people's views can evolve. I'm wondering how your views on policing have evolved since 2020.

[Francesca Hong]

My views have only become stronger in that I'm serious about public safety and I will not abolish the police. My views are that people are struggling right now and need basic needs met. And I want to focus on stopping violent crime and giving law enforcement the resources and the training that they need, but ensure that we are also holding accountable law enforcement that does not follow the law.

[Jon Favreau]

Do you still believe that police exist to uphold white supremacy?

[Francesca Hong]

No.

[Jon Favreau]

When did that change for you and like what has changed in your thinking since you, you posted that in 2020?

[Francesca Hong]

No. I think that when you talk to people who are most justice impacted, a mother who lost a child to police violence, people who have contended with injustices in historically marginalized communities. But justice also looks like making sure that we are implementing solutions and helping to change the material conditions of people's lives. So as a legislator over the last six years, I've had conversations with people who are more directly connected to the problems and have learned that it is most important for a public servant like myself to make sure we're looking at sensible, practical solutions that will help keep communities safe.

[Jon Favreau]

You said during this campaign back in May that there has to be accountability for people who commit crimes. And if you're a governor and people commit crimes that, quote, incarceration and law enforcement are the systems in place right now. You also said your long term vision is a world without prisons. How does that work?

[Francesca Hong]

What I know is attainable and the policies that actually meet the urgency of the moment and understanding the Realities of it means that we have to ensure that we're funding our local governments, that we're bringing justice to victims. And what may have been more aspirational is not primary. What we need to do is make sure that all people all across Wisconsin have access to great public schools, schools out of school programs, mental health resources, and that we hold law enforcement accountable, but also provide them with the training that they need to help prevent crime and stop crime.

[Jon Favreau]

One place this could come up, I think in the general election and of course, if you become governor, commutations are yours alone. No legislature, no courts. Would you commute sentences for people convicted of murder.

[Francesca Hong]

The last governor before Tony Evers to serve commutations was Republican Tommy Thompson. And I believe that computations moving forward, the system has to be designed by the folks who are also most impacted right now. And so at this time, I would not extend a commutation to somebody who has murdered somebody else.

[Jon Favreau]

If you're governor, you'll have something of a high class problem in that. One of the first things you'll have to figure out is what to do with a $2.5 billion surplus projected. Governor Evers and Republican leaders in the legislature reached a deal in May that would have given people $300 rebate checks, property tax relief, special education reimbursement, and no tax on tips and overtime passed the Assembly. You voted no, and then it died in the Senate. Eighty percent of voters, including 82% of Democrats, said it should have passed, according to the Marquette Poll. Why do you think the voters were wrong?

[Francesca Hong]

We have to make sure that the people who are struggling the most have durable solutions. And what that bill would have is not given a rebate to those who are on fixed incomes, to folks who are making under $50,000 an hour. That's over a million Wisconsinites. Those are people who absolutely deserve relief. And we were seeing these 600 and $300 rebates go to millionaires and billionaires. And I'm focused on making sure that everyday working class people are not only able to get real relief through cutting property taxes, which we can do when we fund our schools, but also that folks are have access to good jobs, fair affordable childcare and free paid leave for all. And so for us, it's irresponsible if we don't think about some of the folks who need the funding the most.

[Jon Favreau]

Tom Tiffany said he wants to return the entire $2.5 billion surplus to taxpayers. What specifically do you want to do with it? Would taxpayers get any refunds or what's your priority list if you're fortunate enough to be governor and have a Democratic legislature.

[Francesca Hong]

I want to cut property taxes, which we can do by almost 44% when we add in a millionaire and billionaire tax. I want to make sure that we're investing in free childcare for folks across our state while also providing bridge payments so that our childcare centers can stay open. We need to invest in public education, but also have funds available to attack and to make sure that we are extending health care. I mean, Americans and Wisconsinites are risking losing their health care because of a bill that Tom Tiffany voted for. So healthcare, education and ensuring that we're lowering taxes is what I'll be focusing on with that surplus.

[Jon Favreau]

You're the only Democrat backing a one year moratorium on data centers. You argue that the tax exemptions will cost the state more than $2 billion. Tom Tiffany says he wouldn't back a moratorium, but that he'd also end those subsidies and that people shouldn't have to absorb the higher utility rates. So why is the moratorium the better policy and what's that contrast going to be like between the two of you if you're the nominee?

[Francesca Hong]

The moratorium is what hundreds and thousands of voters across the state, regardless of political ideology, have been demanding. Because the scale and speed in which these data centers continue to grow waiting for legislation in order for them to be able to be held accountable or wouldn't have tax exemptions. The current data centers that exist in our state right now receive hundreds and thousands of dollars in tax exemptions and do not have to pay a sales and use tax. The people of Wisconsin deserve to have community say and community control. That means ensuring that no utility costs go up, that we have regulations in place to hold polluters accountable, and that we are foxconned again, giving away billions of dollars in subsidies while creating very few new and destroying a community. And what they're able to do with their own property taxes and being able to grow their community. We should be able to have a say in making sure that Big Tech knows we're not here to sell out our natural resources and we're not selling out our state to Big Tech.

[Jon Favreau]

Do you see the moratorium being lifted after a year or like what? Under what conditions would you lift it?

[Francesca Hong]

The big part is the regulations to make sure that we're holding those polluters accountable, that we aren't raising rates for utilities and that the Public Service Commission and people who are are approving these different projects are actually we hold the folks who are going to be responsible in thinking about what the public good is instead of people who may be taking money from the utility companies appointed to those positions. I think it's important that we establish local control, but that there are statewide guidelines in having no tax exemptions and ensuring that data centers actually have to pay their own way and upfront if they're going to build in Wisconsin.

[Jon Favreau]

The last primary debate was pretty friendly with you and your primary opponents and for people who are going to vote soon, and they're wondering if they're trying to decide between you and David Crowley, who's your leading opponent in the primary right now, what's one place where the two of you disagree?

[Francesca Hong]

We disagree on the moratorium on data centers. We disagree on ending the voucher program. I believe that public dollars should stay in public public schools. We disagree on how much to tax millionaires and billionaires to ensure that we have enough revenue to invest in the things that Wisconsinites care about, like childcare, like paid leave, like public schools. And we disagree in how much we should be spending on removing or how much of the tax exemptions and corporate loopholes that we should be eliminating. Fortunately, Crowley has not been clear on which ones, which policies that he supports.

[Jon Favreau]

So I hear you on the voucher program, like taking money away from public education happens all across the country. You know, there is a program now There are about 30,000 kids in Milwaukee who are in that program. Their families are income capped. What does winding the program down mean for them? And what happens to those kids? What year does it end?

[Francesca Hong]

Right now, it's important to establish accountability and transparency and educating folks about where their property taxes go. We have a bill that's ready that would include a property tax report. How much of those tax dollars are actually going to private schools? With the Milwaukee schools voucher program, that would be the last voucher program that we would phase out. And I believe it's important for folks to know that families actually can receive a tax credit for private school tuition. But right now, administration of that voucher program is costing our state over $1.2 billion and so sunsetting that program for more Milwaukee for us, we're looking at at least the next second or third session. So that would be around 2030. But again, we want to make sure NPS is a partner with us and that the families who are in the program, that the education is not disrupted. And even when we put the caps on it, that doesn't mean that any of the students who are enrolled in vouchers now would have learning disruptions.

[Jon Favreau]

So. So you're running as a democratic socialist. A couple people have pointed that out. A few weeks ago, Marquette asked Wisconsin voters how they felt about that label. 54% of Democrats have a favorable view, especially younger ones. But when it comes to independents, only 13% have a favorable view. 52% have an unfavorable view of democratic socialists. What is your plan for those voters who you'll obviously need to win? Do you want to persuade them to change their mind about democratic socialism or do you want to persuade them that the label doesn't matter?

[Francesca Hong]

I want to tell them what other Wisconsinites have told me, that it is about the solutions and not just the labels and the solutions that we are presenting that actually meet the moment to solve the problem that the system is rigged against working class people. And I will always put working class people first. That fighting to fully fund our public schools, have free childcare, affordable housing and fair, cheaper healthcare looks like having someone who also understands the struggle. Right now I'm the only wage worker, only single mom. I'm a renter and I've worked in the legislature for the last six years. But I'm a public servant first. And I learned that from opening a business and running a restaurant as well as being a wage worker right now. And so I think this is a lot about listening to voters and letting them know more about our solutions and ensuring them that I'm not here to expand a brand. I'm here to make sure that Wisconsinites get what they deserve.

[Jon Favreau]

What is the best case for your candidacy? That has nothing to do with any of what we just discussed. What else would you, what other pitch would you like to make?

[Francesca Hong]

Since we've launched our campaign, we've learned that Wisconsinites all across our state, regardless of generation, race, faith, ethnicity, are tired and they're stressed and they're frustrated. And when we talk about building a movement and transformative change that we can have a state that endorses, invests in our communities, that raises wages and ensures that we're caring and protecting one another. We have now grown our movement to over 7,000 people who have volunteered for our campaign, hit over 110,000 doors, that this is a multi generational coalition. And what's most excited is the support that's coming from younger voters, first time voters, or people who have not voted in elections for the last six, seven years. I think people deserve to have a candidate that they believe in and that they know is not only just fighting for them, but fighting alongside them.

[Jon Favreau]

Francesca Hong thank you so much for joining POD Save America and good luck in this last week.

[Francesca Hong]

Thank you so much. Take care.

[Jon Favreau]

Take care. That's our show for today. Thanks to Francesca Hong for coming on. We'll be back with a new episode on Friday. Pod Save America is a crooked media production. Our show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts and Farah Safari with Reed Cherlin, Elijah Cohen and Adrian Hill. Our team includes Matt de Groat, Ben Hethcoat, Jordan Kanter, Charlotte Landis, Kirill Pel Aviv, David Tolls, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Singel. Our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

[Tommy Vietor]

Hey, It's Tommy from Pod Save America and Pot Save the World. Last year, 2,500 people joined us at CrookedCon for conversations with some of the smartest organizers, least annoying politicians, and most interesting voices in politics. Politics to talk about how to fix this mess. Even President Obama made a surprise appearance. We're doing it all again November 5th to 7th in Washington, D.C. with even more podcasts, panels and workshops. Plus there'll be drinks, which we'll need after the midterms. No matter which way they go, get [e-mail] if you're a friend of the pod, you get a discount, too. See you there.

[Francesca Hong]

Your social media feed delivers plenty of advice, but it doesn't know you. It doesn't ask questions. It doesn't give physical exams or order tests doctors do. At the American Medical association, we believe the best care starts with a real conversation with someone who understands the science and your unique health. So stay curious. Ask questions. But when it's time to make decisions, make them with a doctor. Learn more at amahealth versus hype.org that's amahealthvshipe.org hey, it's Sissany for Albertsons and Safeway. It's back to deals time now through August 25th. Enjoy hundreds of weekly storewide deals and earn. Earn four times the points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Frito Lay, Reese's Nestle Outshine and Haagen Dazs. Then clip the offer one time in the app and save all event long. Stack up those points to save even more. Enjoy exclusive deals when you shop in store or online for easy drive up and go pick up or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. See website for full terms and conditions.