Gay for Due Process: Live at WorldPride

Summary

Pod Save America: "Gay for Due Process: Live at WorldPride" – Detailed Summary

Release Date: June 8, 2025

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1. Introduction to the Live Event

The episode, titled "Gay for Due Process: Live at WorldPride," marks a special live show held during World Pride at the Lincoln Theater in Washington, D.C. Hosted by former Obama aides Jon Favreau, Jon Lovett, Dan Pfeiffer, and Tommy Vietor, the event serves as a fundraiser benefiting the Immigrant Defenders Law Center. The center advocates for individuals like Andre Hernandez Romero, who have been disappeared without due process to El Salvador.

2. Origin Story of the Event

Timestamp: [03:05]

Sarah Longwell opens the show by sharing the impetus behind the event:

Sarah Longwell: "I was thinking about how fucking pissed I am that we're kidnapping gay people and sending them to El Salvador. And so I got out of the shower, and I texted Lovett, and I was like, Lovett, like, we should do something for others for once..."

Tommy Vietor adds humorously:

Tommy Vietor: "I'll try anything once."
Sarah Longwell: "So we'll see y'all at Flower Factory later."

3. Fundraiser Objectives and Significance

The hosts emphasize the seriousness of the situation despite the event's fun atmosphere:

Timestamp: [05:04]

Tommy Vietor: "We want to have fun. But also we're here because this is a serious moment. And we're really grateful to everybody who was willing to come out during World Pride to be here to be part of this fundraiser to keep attention on the importance of freeing Andre and all the others who have been disappeared to a gulag in El Salvador in our name."

4. Comedic Interlude: "Tim Eras Tour"

Timestamp: [16:43]

Sarah initiates a humorous segment showcasing old photos of Tommy Vietor, dubbed the "Tim Eras Tour." The segment features playful mockery of Tommy's past, including his "frat bro era" and interactions with notable figures like Sean Spicer.

Sarah Longwell: "I'm the horse."
Tommy Vietor: "Who is that in the background?"
Sarah Longwell: "That's my wife."
Tommy Vietor: "We have Tim and Jeb Bush. Wow."

5. Guest Speaker: Congressman Robert Garcia

Timestamp: [55:34]

The main portion features Congressman Robert Garcia from California, who discusses the plight of Andre Hernandez Romero and others sent to El Salvador without due process.

Key Highlights:

• Andre's Background:

  Congressman Garcia: "Andre is an asylum seeker from Venezuela. He came to the US last year when he was in Venezuela as a gay man. He faced incredible discrimination... He made the incredibly difficult decision to come to the US."

• Current Crisis:

  Congressman Garcia: "He's been in an ice prison in San Diego... On his way to getting asylum, we started representing him in December of last year. He was disappeared by the Trump administration on March 15."

• Legal Perspective:

  Garcia: "It's fundamentally about due process. The only thing that stands between any of us ending up in a prison in El Salvador, just like Andre, is the fact that we have due process. We have constitutional rights."

• Call to Action:

  Garcia: "Donate to organizations like Immigrant Offenders Law Center... Keep Andre's story alive. Talk to your family and friends, especially those in Republican districts, to ensure they question their representatives about Andre's fate."

6. Comedic Segments: "Bitch Stop" and "Capture the Flag"

Timestamp: [38:25] & [75:30]

The hosts introduce comedic segments aimed at lightening the mood while maintaining political satire:

• "Bitch Stop": A parody of Jesse Watters' segments, where the hosts mockingly critique conservative viewpoints.

  Tommy Vietor: "Bitch Stop. How many loops in that fucking grave do we think she did?"

• "Capture the Flag": A game where "gays" and "straights" engage in humorous competitions, highlighting cultural stereotypes with sharp wit.

  Sarah Longwell: "What is poppers? They provide a temporary euphoria."

  Tara Hoots: "Lesbian weddings on television – Euphoria's Hunter Schaefer?"

7. Rant Wheel: Expression of Frustrations

Timestamp: [91:08]

The "Rant Wheel" segment allows hosts and guests to vent about various topics:

• Sarah Longwell's Rant:

  Sarah Longwell: "He gets off the plane and they beat him up and shave his head... He is living a nightmare that you can't imagine. And the reason that he's living it is our country, is that we did it to him."

• Tara Hoots' Rant:

  Tara Hoots: "Do we really need a whole month for Pride? It feels like our need for a whole month is so extra and ridiculous."

8. Closing Remarks and Final Call to Action

Timestamp: [102:56]

In concluding the live show, Tara Hoots emphasizes resilience against authoritarianism and reiterates the importance of not succumbing to fatigue in the fight for justice.

Tara Hoots: "The biggest thing they want from us is to be tired. So never get tired. Never stop. And let's get Andre home."

Sarah adds an emotional plea, connecting Andre's struggle to broader themes of liberty and human rights.

Sarah Longwell: "What we're doing is because of Andre. We sent him to a hell in El Salvador. And so it's up to us to get him the fuck out of this nightmare."

9. Sponsored Segments Skipped

Throughout the transcript, there are multiple sponsorship segments for BetterHelp, Hotels.com, Incogni, Rocket Money, and the Human Rights Campaign. As per instructions, these non-content sections have been omitted from the summary.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• [05:04] Tommy Vietor: "We want to have fun. But also we're here because this is a serious moment."

• [16:43] Sarah Longwell: "I'm the horse."

• [55:34] Congressman Garcia: "Andre is an asylum seeker from Venezuela... He's been in an ice prison... disappeared by the Trump administration."

• [75:30] Sarah Longwell: "What brand makes these iconic patterned bags? Oh, wait..."

• [91:08] Sarah Longwell: "I was trying to feel emotions about it, and then I'm in this little tennis skirt..."

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Conclusion

This episode of "Pod Save America" intertwines serious advocacy for due process in immigration cases with moments of levity and satire. By hosting the event at World Pride, the hosts highlight the intersectionality of LGBTQ rights and immigrant justice, emphasizing the personal and political ramifications of policies that deny individuals like Andre Hernandez Romero their constitutional rights. The blend of heartfelt discussions, guest insights, and comedic relief creates a comprehensive narrative aimed at educating, engaging, and mobilizing listeners to take action.

Transcript

[John Lovett]

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[Tim Miller]

Therapist in this administration. They just go on, usually.

[Brett Baier]

Brett Baer.

[John Lovett]

That's a good point.

[Tim Miller]

Some top FBI officials went on Fox.

[Sarah Longwell]

And Friends this morning and kind of.

[John Lovett]

Unburdened themselves of all the things they're sad about.

[Tim Miller]

Not everyone has that opportunity.

[John Lovett]

No. To get booked on cable. No, no. You can't just sit with Fox and Friends and talk about how your job at the FBI is so hard and.

[Tim Miller]

Just have Brian kill me. Be like, it's okay.

[John Lovett]

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[Tim Miller]

Wait, you're not a Hotels.com member, so you're choosing to pay full price? Did you not hear the song?

[Tara Hoots]

How could you not be a member and save up to 20%?

[Tim Miller]

That's less than 50%.

[Sarah Longwell]

But it's more than zero percent.

[Tim Miller]

You're welcome. See, the math is mathing. Save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels with hotels dot com. Hey, everybody. Happy pride. Today we're switching things up a bit. On Friday night, I did a very fun live show with Sarah Longwell and Tim Miller from the Bulwark at the Lincoln theater in Washington, D.C. at World Pride. It was a fundraiser benefiting the Immigrant Defenders Law center, which represents people like Andre Hernandez Romero and so many others who have been disappeared without due process to El Salvador. It was a serious topic, but a very fun show with some important conversations and some very silly games. If you want to help, you can donate@votesave America.com Action for. For Andre. We'll be back with a regular episode on Tuesday, but in the meantime, here's a live show. Hope you like it. Welcome, everybody.

[Sarah Longwell]

I was never a twink. Here's the thing. Love it. So thank you all for coming out. I wanted to tell you Just a second about the origin story of this. I was in the shower one day. Watch out. Usually it's that. Usually it's that, Calm down. But in this case, I was thinking about how fucking pissed I am that we're kidnapping gay people and sending them to El Salvador. And so I got out of the shower, and I texted Lovett, and I was like, lovett, like, we should do something for others for once, you know, like, we should stop being such narcissists who care about our own content creation. We should, like, do something for someone else. And he was like, great idea, Tim. I was like, and let's try.

[Tim Miller]

I'll try anything once.

[Sarah Longwell]

So then I was like, let's tie it to World Pride, you know, so we can have one for him, one for us on the back end. So we'll see y' all at Flower Factory later. Sarah, you got brought in. Why are you here?

[Tara Hoots]

I think because somebody needed to be the top on this stage.

[Tim Miller]

Wow.

[Sarah Longwell]

Nobody vetted.

[Tara Hoots]

Sorry, I didn't vet that joke. I didn't bet that joke. No, sorry. I just. It was important to have a bipartisan event. It was important to be diverse, because this is a pro democracy, and I mean, small D democracy event. I'm the pro democracy. They're the small D.

[Tim Miller]

Wow. Unbelievable.

[Sarah Longwell]

She's so proud of herself.

[Tim Miller]

I didn't realize lesbians knew about jokes.

[Tara Hoots]

Okay, well, that's fine. That's fine. But these guys were like, hey, we're gonna go in, like, pre game backstage. We're gonna do some shots. But they just took prep shots. That's all they did.

[Sarah Longwell]

It's a pill.

[Tara Hoots]

How am I supposed to know that.

[Tim Miller]

I don't need them. My shot is Ozempic.

[Sarah Longwell]

And you're looking great.

[Tim Miller]

Thanks, buddy.

[Sarah Longwell]

We are going through old pictures of you, and, boy, big improvement. You're thriving right now.

[Tim Miller]

Thank you, buddy. Thank you for saying that. It gets better. So, you know, look, we Want to have fun. But also we're here because this is a serious moment. And we're really grateful to everybody who was willing to come out during World Pride to be here to be part of this fundraiser to keep attention on the importance of freeing Andre and all the others who have been disappeared to a gulag in El Salvador in our name. Earlier today, I got to witness something historic, which is, I believe, the first time. Sarah Longwell, you've been like, a participant in a protest.

[Tara Hoots]

It's the first protest I've ever been to, period.

[Tim Miller]

And we were joking just now backstage. Do you know how much had to go fucking wrong in this society for Sarah and I to get close? Do you know how many different things we had to get wrong all along the way for us to be here at the Lincoln Theater together? This is against nature. This is when a turtle and a horse. Our friends at a zoo. It's not working.

[Sarah Longwell]

Who's the horse?

[Tim Miller]

It's not working.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm the horse. I think. I think you have a slideshow, don't you?

[Tim Miller]

Oh, is it? We're up to the slideshow. Is it time?

[Sarah Longwell]

I think so.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, great.

[Sarah Longwell]

Unless you got more chit chat you want to do.

[Tim Miller]

We all know the name of Harvey Milk. Who? Pete Hegseth is trying to get his name off of a Navy vessel. There's a navy ship named after Harvey Milk. And who. Pete. Pete Hegseth is like, gotta do some cancel culture on that shit. But Harvey Milk is not the first elected gay elected official in this country. He's the first gay man to be elected in this country because the. Isn't that interesting?

[Sarah Longwell]

I didn't know that.

[Tim Miller]

Yes, because the first person to be elect. Gay, openly gay person to be elected is a lesbian from Michigan named Kathy Kozachenko, I believe. And we don't know her name because lesbians just don't do pr. They just. It's mostly. It's like woodworking and that kind of a thing. It's the gay guys that went into pr, which is funny.

[Tara Hoots]

That's funny because actually when we were promoting the show, the Advocate did a piece and my PR guy was the one pitching the piece, and somehow the piece came out. Tim Miller and John Lovett to co host show.

[Sarah Longwell]

The Advocate knows what sells magazines. Yeah, that's how we put butts in the seats. No pictures of women in axes in the Advocate. That's not going to be the viewers.

[Tim Miller]

The point is, we owe a great deal to lesbians. I've recently found out. And as a token of Our gratitude. We wanted to hope to make you feel perfectly at ease during World Pride by showing you some options for different lesbian styles you could embrace this weekend.

[Tara Hoots]

Is it a skirt? Because I'm not wearing that.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, so we can rule out a couple right there. Now, we did manage to go into the archives, and we found some options from your past. So let's show what we've got here first.

[Sarah Longwell]

Oh, yeah. Lumberjack Chicago.

[Tim Miller]

I would say Lumberjacklyn Scarecrow with a master's degree.

[Tara Hoots]

I do love a flannel.

[Sarah Longwell]

Still, you can't see the fingerless gloves in the photo, but they're underneath.

[Tim Miller]

Dwayne the Lesbian Johnson is an option for one of these, but do we have any more of those? Is that. Oh, here's another. We have this. That is cute. That's.

[Tara Hoots]

That's my wife.

[Sarah Longwell]

I guess you are the top.

[Tim Miller]

We came up. Wait, can we go back to that one? So this version of Sarah, we came up with a name for it, which is Katie Langley. But look, there are many different directions that you could go, which is why it's time for a segment we're calling Carabiner. I Hardly Know Her. Now, first up, we do have the lipstick lesbian represented here by Portia de Ronci.

[Sarah Longwell]

Ooh, I'm gonna get out of the way here.

[Tim Miller]

Now, the only downside here is you do run the risk of being Seduced by Ellen DeGeneres and then having to go live in the Cotswolds. I don't know what that is, but it doesn't sound.

[Tara Hoots]

You are describing a lesbian fantasy right now, so I don't know what the problem is.

[Tim Miller]

Right. I don't know your culture. I don't know your culture. Now, next up, as an option for you now, do we have a. Let's go to the next slide. Yes. Next up, we have the power lesbians.

[Tara Hoots]

Yes. Remember this Sex and the City episode?

[Tim Miller]

Yes, of course you do.

[Tara Hoots]

Oh, I'm in there.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Obviously you're pretty much at ease in this photo. This doesn't feel like much of a stretch for you. Would you consider yourself a power lesbian?

[Tara Hoots]

Yeah, I think so.

[Sarah Longwell]

A little humility, please. God.

[Tim Miller]

I mean, you.

[Tara Hoots]

Okay.

[Tim Miller]

What. What did Tim say?

[Sarah Longwell]

A little humility. I mean, you're not supposed to call yourself a power lesbian. That's supposed to be a title bestowed upon you, I think, by others.

[Tim Miller]

That's the kind of thing someone who's not a power lesbian would say, if you're any power lesbian, would describe herself as such. And if you can't, you're not bitch. All right, next up, we have granola lesbians. Okay. I look fine.

[Tara Hoots]

Gray.

[Tim Miller]

A Subaru Sophic. We call them. Comfortable shoes, cargo shorts. It'd be very practical during the parade. Something to think about. Yeah, you might get hit by those national park budget cuts by Trump.

[Tara Hoots]

That has been hard on the lesbians.

[Tim Miller]

Actually, now we do like to camp. Yeah. You do like to camp? That's.

[Tara Hoots]

Do you actually, you guys like camp? We like to camp, yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Wow.

[Sarah Longwell]

Nobody likes to camp.

[Tim Miller]

No.

[Sarah Longwell]

I refuse to believe that anyone actually likes to camp.

[Tim Miller]

No.

[Tara Hoots]

My friends are camping right now without me. I had to stop skip it to come to this show.

[Tim Miller]

Wow.

[Sarah Longwell]

You're welcome.

[Tim Miller]

No, I don't understand camping either, but that's why the flag has different colors on it, you know? That's why we have different.

[Sarah Longwell]

Straight women are our natural allies. Hello, straight women. You don't like to camp either, do you? You don't like to camp.

[Tim Miller]

Yes. I often believe that the next great political realignment is when the straight women and the gay guys join forces and the straight guys and the lesbians join forces, and that becomes our political divide.

[Tara Hoots]

Do we want to take a winner in that fight or.

[Tim Miller]

We'll do whatever you say. Next up, a classic. A classic direction. We have the masks now. Oh, there we go.

[Sarah Longwell]

All of a sudden, I'm horny.

[Tim Miller]

Now this is working for Tim, so that's a bad sign. Now TikTok has declared a mask shortage. And, you know, you're a former Republican, so you care a lot about a free market. That's an opportunity for you. There's a market opening for some more. A more masculine Sarah Longwell. Have you thought about shorter hair spikes? Maybe kind of more tattoos?

[Tara Hoots]

Oh, he was saying mask with a C. I thought he was talking about, like, Covid masks.

[Tim Miller]

Get out of here, Fauci. Nobody's talking about masks. Wait, no, no. I'm talking about masculine. A masculine lesbian. Well, if this isn't your style, we can try soft, butch, respected, classy, androgynous.

[Tara Hoots]

I think a sweater vest is up my alley, actually.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, no, I think we could reach for one of those in your closet for sure. And then I think one last one. I think we have Diesel Dyke.

[Tara Hoots]

That's Rosa Delario.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, yeah, I like. Honestly, I think you could try that.

[Sarah Longwell]

I don't really.

[Tim Miller]

I think. Shave the sides of your head. I mean, honestly, this could work for you.

[Tara Hoots]

Thank you. Straight man in the audience.

[Tim Miller]

Get that attitude the fuck out of here.

[Sarah Longwell]

Thank you. It is Pride Month, sir.

[Tim Miller]

It's Pride Month. We say yes to whatever. And finally, just as one last option, we have the Elvira Goth era that you could perhaps enter. That's where we would like to see you by the end of this period. Pride.

[Tara Hoots]

I feel like.

[Sarah Longwell]

Which one do you think appealed on.

[Tara Hoots]

My photo bits after this?

[Tim Miller]

So, Sarah, so that's all a way of saying, you know, we. We want you to try any one of these directions. This. Pride, we hope that even though Tim and I do take up as much space as there is.

[Tara Hoots]

Yeah, I do. I look forward to interrupting you guys a lot during this show as you talk.

[Sarah Longwell]

I don't like the sound of that.

[Tara Hoots]

A form of historical retaliation.

[Tim Miller]

And I love that for us.

[Tara Hoots]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

But now I understand, Sarah, you've collected a dossier of your own.

[Tara Hoots]

So here's the thing. Tim and I actually go way back. Like recliners back. Like, we have been friends since like 2006 when I had to go pick him up after the cops arrested him. And for some reason, his first call was to his boss because they needed a responsible adult to pick him up and drive his trust fund Cadillac home for him.

[Sarah Longwell]

I don't recall this. Did that happen?

[Tara Hoots]

That's a real thing that happened.

[Sarah Longwell]

Are you sure?

[Tara Hoots]

I remember pulling up in a cab. Cause I also had a life. I was also out partying and I would pull up in a cab.

[Tim Miller]

This. Let's try to keep this believable.

[Tara Hoots]

I pull up in a cab and this guy is sitting on the curb.

[Brett Baier]

It's.

[Tara Hoots]

It's almost Christmas. I remember because the cop wished me a Merry Christmas as I was taking Tim away. And Tim's sitting there in the tiniest little glittery tank top you've ever seen while the cop lights are going, the red and whites are spinning. I remember the cab.

[Sarah Longwell]

He said to me, coming out is a challenge, okay? And I went through some rocky times. I'm sure there are people in the room that can relate to that. It's not nice to bully me about it all these years later.

[Tara Hoots]

Well, I told you, somebody's gotta bring the top energy. So, anyway, so Tim and I. Tim and I have been friends for a very long time. And so I have a lot of old pictures of Tim. And so I thought we'd just do something really quickly called the Tim Eras Tour.

[Tim Miller]

I love this.

[Sarah Longwell]

Sounds fun.

[Tim Miller]

I love this.

[Tara Hoots]

Let's go. This is the Tim. This is the Tim Beard era.

[Tim Miller]

Holy shit. Look at that. Look at that.

[Sarah Longwell]

That is hot. I want to draw your attention to the fact that I spilled my drink all over my shirt.

[Tim Miller]

Look, Tim, if you had kept that up a little bit longer, you could have been speaker of the House.

[Tara Hoots]

What else we got? Oh, yeah. I call this Tim's free Palestine era. That's Tim's husband, actually. Look how far we go back.

[John Lovett]

Twins.

[Tara Hoots]

Tyler. That was pride of 2008. How about that? Oh, yeah. Okay. This is Tim's frat bro era. Are you chugging a 40 at the orange headquarters?

[Tim Miller]

Who is that in the background?

[Tara Hoots]

Is that Sean Spicer?

[Tim Miller]

That is Sean fucking Spicer. Shame, shame, shame, shame, shame, shame. Wow.

[Sarah Longwell]

And if I kept that up, I'd be a new.

[Tim Miller]

That's how quickly we could have our own dictator on our side. It's that best on a fucking dime. On a dime. Sorry, Sarah, please continue. I'm so sorry for them.

[Tara Hoots]

Look at this twink schoolboy era.

[Sarah Longwell]

That's hot.

[Tara Hoots]

Yeah. This was around the time I met Tim and he had a pair of fake glasses that he wore. This was his like Superman to Clark Kent thing that he did. It was like glasses, straight glasses, off gay. They were not prescription.

[Sarah Longwell]

I did wear non prescription spectacles.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, my. You know.

[Tara Hoots]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

For those listening, I was. For those. For those listening, that is a photo of Tim, Sarah, and another Sarah Palin of Alaska. You know, it's so funny. You hear former Republican, but then you feel it. Then you feel it right here in the middle of the chest.

[Sarah Longwell]

You betcha.

[Tara Hoots]

I call this Tim's why we did it era. Which you only know if you've read Tim's book. But it's a good joke if you got Tim's book. All right, next one. This is Tim's please clap. Era.

[Tim Miller]

We have Tim and Jeb Bush. Wow. Now look at this. This is just.

[Sarah Longwell]

If only we had Jeb. You guys didn't fucking deserve Jeb. Okay? I don't want to hear any of this nonsense.

[Tim Miller]

If only we had Jeb. People say to themselves, all the.

[Tara Hoots]

Last one, last one.

[Sarah Longwell]

Okay, that's not cute. I said only cute pictures.

[Tara Hoots]

This is lastly, this is Tim's finally famous era. And I want you to know this is from the other day when Tim yelled at our staff because he didn't look cute enough in his YouTube photo.

[Tim Miller]

And honestly, you know what changes? You know what? You know what? That's exactly what Tim should do. That face is his goddamn moneymaker.

[Sarah Longwell]

Thank you.

[Tim Miller]

All right? And we can't do anything. We can be honest about the fact that we want to be looking good on these fucking youtubes. All right, Sarah, thank you.

[Tara Hoots]

All right.

[Sarah Longwell]

All right.

[Tara Hoots]

That's all my Tim. But I do have a bonus for Lovett. Cause I didn't have old pictures of him. His freshman year college roommate and I worked together and I was like, give me something. And he said no. So John must be like a scary gay. Like.

[Tim Miller]

Loyalty. Yeah, loyalty.

[Tara Hoots]

So I had to do something else. So one thing that John and I have in common is that we both love the show Survivor. Okay. I've watched every season of Survivor and when I saw that they announced Jon Lovett was gonna be on the show, I was so fucking pissed. I was like, now they will never have another gay, middle aged podcaster on the show. And I've missed it.

[Sarah Longwell]

It.

[Tara Hoots]

I'll never get to do this. Luckily, this happened.

[Sarah Longwell]

First person voted out of survival 47, John. That's four.

[Tim Miller]

That's enough.

[Sarah Longwell]

Need to bring me your torch. They misspelled your name.

[Tim Miller]

Let's just watch the whole thing.

[Tara Hoots]

Relive it. Relive it all.

[Sarah Longwell]

Play it again.

[Tim Miller]

Turn bright and fast. Time for to go. All right, see ya. Bye, kids.

[Sarah Longwell]

You know, I have a little behind the scenes story from one of our podcasts. In the period between when John came home from Survivor and when they announced that he was the first person eliminated, we did a podcast together. And on the show I was like, by the way, I know you did terrible. And he goes, how do you know? I said, you look exactly the same as when you left. And I've seen the end of Survivor and people that make it long, they get tan, they lose weight. So I was like, you look the same. And he made me cut it. He was like, sherry Whetstone will get mad at me and CBS if we leave it in.

[Tara Hoots]

Oh, Sherry Whetstone, there is a fragile.

[Tim Miller]

Alliance between former Republicans and current Democrats. Fragile alliance.

[Michael Fanone]

Okay.

[Tara Hoots]

Okay. Well, this is my last thing. I did get this one picture out of your roommate, which is.

[Tim Miller]

So.

[Tara Hoots]

So here's the thing.

[Sarah Longwell]

This is.

[Tara Hoots]

I just have to ask you because I think I might know why you lost. Are you practicing making fire just like on concrete?

[Tim Miller]

Like, I was learning how to spark the flint. I was really trying to get the fire started. I was learning. I bought a machete on Amazon, which you shouldn't be able to do. And yet. And yet. But yes, that is me trying to learn how to make fire. Which if you had. If I had managed to miss more than three dinners, you might have seen.

[Tara Hoots]

Okay, that's the end of my bit. That's the end of my photos bit.

[Tim Miller]

Well, nice.

[Sarah Longwell]

Can you make fire?

[Tim Miller]

I can make fire. I learned to make fire not as good at making friends, But I can make fire. Turns out, you got to make fire and you got to make friends.

[Tara Hoots]

Which was harder for you? Getting voted off first or the fact that none of them had heard of your podcast?

[Tim Miller]

When we come back.

[Sarah Longwell]

Excuse me. We're staying. We have one more little item.

[Tim Miller]

I'm sorry. You're right.

[John Lovett]

You're right.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, my God.

[Sarah Longwell]

Okay, well, we added it to the show late, so it's fine. It makes sense. I just figured that since we had the world's messiest divorce during Pride Month, we should probably just talk about it a little bit. So, you know, my take on this might be a little different than you expect, because I was thinking about it on the plane here, and I was like, you know, thinking about Donald and Elon. Gay men in the crowd. Maybe there's more that unites us than divides us, it turns out. I know it doesn't seem likely, but bear with me here. You have a relationship between two white male narcissists. It hits the skids. The breakup explodes in a messy ketamine fueled cat fight. There's accusations of bad behavior at sex parties and reckless spending of the couple's finances. It's a gale as old as time. I'm surprised this didn't burst out into the open at a 14th street brunch. We've all seen the Ark. The only question I have is which one spirals and spends the night taking strangers loads in the darkroom at the Green Lantern? My money's on Elon. Was that too much?

[Tim Miller]

I don't think so.

[Sarah Longwell]

You can keep that one as a souvenir. I can't throw. I'm gay. We'll give it to you later. I also feel like we're kind of living a preview of the Sophie's Choice facing the children of gay divorce. I don't know about you, I feel bad for those children. Like, imagine having to choose who you want to have custody. The K hole circuit dad or the cunty theater queen. Talk about hard choices by Hillary Clinton. Did you write any of that? Was that.

[Tim Miller]

No, I'm not involved.

[Sarah Longwell]

Okay. One other thing I never expected from this whole saga was that a straight man would end up becoming the poster boy for mixing meth and K. I thought that was our thing.

[Tara Hoots]

I don't understand any of these jokes.

[Tim Miller]

That's great.

[Sarah Longwell]

The jokes are for. The jokes are for the seven gay men under the age of 50 in the crowd. What's up, boys? The good news is now we get a name for getting so geeked on A Kay and Tina snowball that you spend all night posting onto Sniffies or X. We can call it getting doged. And let me tell you guys, if you're out there after that Troye Sivan show tomorrow, boys are gonna be getting doged all over town. So watch your apps.

[Tim Miller]

That was beautiful, Tim.

[Sarah Longwell]

That's all we got. That was my type 5 on the gay divorce.

[Tim Miller]

And on that note, when we come back, Tim is going to sit down with Andre Hernandez, Ramiro's lawyer, to talk about what brought us all here together. So we'll be right back. Pod Save America is brought to you by Incogni. If you've ever searched for your name or address on Google, it's shocking to find how many results have your personal information. And it's not by chance. Data brokers and people search sites collect your personal information. Your name, address, phone number, financial info, income, and hundreds of other records. They sell and share it publicly without your consent. But Incogni is here to put an end to that. It hunts down these unethical sites and gets your info removed from the places that expose your private information. You don't have to email anyone, fill out forms or jump through hoops. They handle the entire process for you. Incogni also continuously monitors to see if your data makes its way onto these databases and will request repeated removals, keeping your info off them forever. So you get fewer spam calls, fewer emails, and more peace of mind. Incogni even offers a family and friends plan to extend protection to up to four additional members. Just create an account and authorize them to act on your behalf. Incogni then handles the data removal process and keeps you informed of their progress. All of our information is all over the place. You need a service like this to help get it off the Internet and scrub the Internet as best they can. Right now, you can get 60% off an annual plan by going to incogni.com PSA and use code PSA. That's incogni.com PSA AND use the code PSA at checkout. Wait, you're not a Hotels.com member, so.

[Michael Fanone]

You'Re choosing to pay full price.

[Tim Miller]

Did you not hear the song?

[Tara Hoots]

How could you not be a member.

[Michael Fanone]

And save up to 20%?

[Tim Miller]

That's less than 50%.

[Sarah Longwell]

But it's more than zero percent.

[Tara Hoots]

You're welcome.

[Tim Miller]

See, the math is mathing. Save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels.

[Sarah Longwell]

With Hotels.com, you don't get the fancy intro like everybody else. Okay, introduce yourself. Tell everybody who we're talking to.

[Michael Fanone]

Hi, everybody. I'm Lindsey Toslowski. I'm the president and CEO of the Immigrant Defenders Law Center.

[Tim Miller]

Thank you.

[Sarah Longwell]

It's so great to see you in person finally, after all of our Twitter DMs. It's unfortunate we had to use Elon's platform to talk, but, you know, it's nice that he brought us together.

[Michael Fanone]

I'm glad he brought us together.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm just so appreciative of all the work that you're doing, and I'm so grateful that we were able to support your guys work with this event tonight, I should say. I got a text from Congressman Richie Torres, folks. They donated $1,000 to your group as well, since he couldn't be here tonight. So we're doing the best we can. But I thought that why don't you start by just telling us about Andre and how you got to know him and how you got to represent him.

[Michael Fanone]

Sure. So Andre is an asylum seeker from Venezuela. He came to the US Last year when he was in Venezuela as a gay man. He faced incredible discrimination. He also was politically persecuted. He was physically hurt. He was followed home by police officers. So he made the incredibly difficult decision to come to the US but he had a really rich life there. He's been in a theater troupe since he was seven years old. He actually worked on the Miss Venezuela pageant. He was in pageants himself as a contestant.

[Sarah Longwell]

Now, is that common in Venezuela for trenderagua men to be working on the Miss Venezuela pageant?

[Michael Fanone]

You know, I don't think that's been a cover I've seen before. Yeah, not common. He also worked professionally as a makeup artist. He had this really rich life. He's close to his mom. So for him to flee and come to the United States, things were really bad. And it was really difficult for him to live authentically there. So he came to the US and he did everything that we were asking people to do. He made an appointment. He waited in Tijuana for that appointment. Once he got into the US he was kept in an ice prison and in San Diego, from the moment he arrived here, he's never stepped free in the United States at all. During that time, he passed his Credible fear interview, which means he was on his way to getting asylum. We started representing him in December of last year. We were in the process of waiting for a court hearing for him, and he was disappeared by the Trump administration on March 15.

[Sarah Longwell]

And so since you had started, you'd been talking to him at that time, did you kind of Expect that. Or what was the situation between kind of December in March.

[Michael Fanone]

Yeah. So we were getting ready to move forward with his asylum case. We had a hearing on March 13. He was really suffering in an ICE detention center, which is one of the reasons that we worry so much about what it's like for him now in a torture prison in El Salvador.

[Sarah Longwell]

Suffering.

[Michael Fanone]

How suffering. He was sexually harassed. He was. He had actually made complaints in. This is a detention center in San Diego. But he also was doing other things while he was there, including at one point, he gave us a. It was sort of like a business plan, a 19 page business plan that he had created for a nonprofit that he wanted to start. And it was to help kids who were homeless and to help, you know, other gay kids. And he was planning to do that once he got out. And he wanted to know if we could show it to the judge to show that he had good intentions here.

[Sarah Longwell]

In the US now you do a lot of these cases. Bring them fucking back. Yeah, it's ridiculous. You know, the Andre case has just taken up so much of. It's good. It's gotten attention, taken so much of my brain power. But I know you represent other folks as well. Are there any other stories you want to tell us about the people that you represent that are in El Salvador?

[Michael Fanone]

So we represent eight other men who are also at the same time Secot prison in El Salvador that Andri is. One of them is Arturo Suarez. He's a professional singer. He actually had a baby born since he's been there who he's never met. Another is Miguel Rojas Mendoza. He was picked up in Louisiana while working as a horse trainer and rancher. He actually had tps, so he had protected status here in the United States. He has two children. And his children's names were the tattoos that he had that likely landed him there. And there are so many other stories, so many other entries that could be part of the more than 235 men who were sent on those US government planes to El Salvador.

[Sarah Longwell]

How do you not become just consumed by rage, murderous rage? That's a personal question. I'm looking for advice.

[Michael Fanone]

You know, I think that every single day that I'm here, I feel like I'm doing exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. And I think all of the other. And I. And I think all of the other. We have a huge team that's working on Anthri's case, other immigrant offenders, other colleagues. We have a case that is actually the JGG versus Trump case. It's happening here right now. We got a positive decision this week, so we are keeping hope alive. I believe. I know in my heart that we will get him back, and we're not going to stop fighting until we do. And so I think, you know, to answer your question about rage, we're channeling our rage for good at this moment, because what the hell else are we going to do?

[Sarah Longwell]

Okay, I'm just going to play that back to myself from time to time to try to use your wisdom to help me out. Okay. We had a little news today with the Kilma Abrego Garcia case. I guess kind of it's good, but also, fuck these people. Just from the legal perspective, what does that development say to you about all these other cases?

[Michael Fanone]

So the news that we got in Kilmar's case is that he's on his way back to the United States. What that says to me is they need to stop lying, that it's impossible, and if they can bring him back, they can bring on three back.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Sarah Longwell]

And this is the thing about all these cases. Like, the reason why they're bringing Kilmar back is because they want to make it about the details of Kilmar's life, which I don't know about one way or the other, but that's the fucking point here. You can't kidnap 250 people, send them to a foreign gulag, and then just be like, well, whatever, we'll see what happens. Some of them are bad guys. Some of them. That is the issue here. And so how do you think about framing that for people so we don't get bogged down in the details of individual cases?

[Michael Fanone]

Right. In many ways, what happened? I mean, there's lots of legal things I could tell you about the Alien Enemies act and all these things, and I won't.

[Sarah Longwell]

Thank you.

[Michael Fanone]

Welcome. But what I can say is that his case is fundamentally about due process. And due process is most important when the government is accusing you of a crime or alleging you are a gang member. The only thing that stands between any of us ending up in a prison in El Salvador, just like and three is the fact that we have have due process. We have constitutional rights. When those are trampled, when you are like Andre whisked away without getting to speak to your lawyer, without knowing where you are going, without being given an opportunity to refute what the government is saying about you, your day in court, this is what happens. And if it can happen to him, it could happen to any one of us. And that's why this case is not just about Andri. It's not just about the 240 men, and it's about the future of our democracy and whether or not we're going to fight for it.

[Sarah Longwell]

All right, last thing. What can, obviously folks here care about this. They showed up tonight. We really appreciate all of you. What else can people do?

[Michael Fanone]

Well, we're so grateful for this. You know, donating to organizations like Immigrant Offenders Law center and our partner organizations is so important because it helps us to do this work. All of our work is done for free for the clients. And so we being here is really important. But we're asking people to continue to shine a light on this case, continue to lift up his story, lift up the stories of all these men. You can go to freeandry.org and you will see toolkits so you can reach out to your elected representatives. But really, the U.S. government here, the Trump administration, they are trying to erase his existence. And so what we need people to do is keep his story alive. Don't let them erase him. And most importantly, talk to your family and friends, those that live in Republican districts. Make sure that they are going to town halls, that they are asking the questions about when Andre is coming back and when he's going to get his day in court. That is the best thing that people can do.

[Sarah Longwell]

I admire you so much. Thank you so much for everything you're doing. That's Lindsey. Appreciate her. Thank you, everybody. Yeah. Stand up. All right, up next. I don't know. Levitt's going to do something. Oh, wait, I get to stay.

[Tim Miller]

You stay. You stay there, Tim. It's time to bring back one of our classic, classic segments. Now, it has another name, but tonight, in honor of pride, we're going to call it something slightly different, because it's time for a segment we call Bitch Stop. And here's how it works. We roll a clip, and whenever we like, we say bitch Stop to talk about it. Tonight we have Jesse Waters.

[Tara Hoots]

Bitch stop.

[Tim Miller]

Talking about. Talking about. What else? The human form. Let's roll the clip.

[Sarah Longwell]

Sal. I was at a resort a little.

[Tim Miller]

While back, and I saw Senator Thune at the gym. The man is jacked, and the guy.

[Sarah Longwell]

Is in great shape, and he lifts hard. You look at Schumer, he's built like a woman.

[Tim Miller]

Now, men do not want to be led by the party of women.

[Tara Hoots]

Bitch stop.

[Sarah Longwell]

Hate to hand it to Jesse Watters, but I don't know. Show me the lie. My husband's a big John Thune fan over there. He was getting Excited Just listening to the description.

[Tim Miller]

You like that? Kind of. Okay, so I'm sorry, 20 years ago, you had a crush on John Thune. Wow, that strong jaw. Is he a Dakota man?

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

Nice.

[Tara Hoots]

I have a question. Do men refuse to be led by women?

[Sarah Longwell]

I don't know if you want the answer to that.

[Tara Hoots]

You guys, as best I can tell, follow drag queens around everywhere, and you're.

[Sarah Longwell]

Telling a little something you might need to know about drag queens. I walked into that one, I had a drag queen. We had a drag queen show up to. This is the second Tyler shout out of the segment to his 40th birthday party. He's 40 now. My father came and the drag queen walks into the event, and my dad looks at my sister in law and he's like, that's a man. Right? That was Sarah as well. Not sure exactly what's happening underneath the window.

[Tim Miller]

I also just think it's a funny thing to say because it's like, are people really following John Thune? Is. Is John Thune our leader?

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, that's a good question. And he is live, though, you have to say about Jon Thune, he's very fit.

[Tim Miller]

That's true. Yeah, that's true. And it is also fair to say that sometimes with Chuck Schumer, the medium is the message. You know what I'm saying?

[Tara Hoots]

Yeah. You know what I remember about Schumer is, remember when he was like, the people are aroused. I've never seen the people so aroused. And I thought, Chuck Schumer, you might need to. It might be time, man. It might be time for something else.

[Tim Miller]

I also just. Wow.

[Tara Hoots]

No shade to Chuck Schumer, but. And it has nothing to do with his gym. Wait, just actually, real quick, what is the obsession among Republican men now to talk about, like, what it means to be a man? Like, this is like a weird thing that's going on.

[Sarah Longwell]

You're turning to me for my expertise on that.

[Tim Miller]

I think you know more about it than I do.

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, I just think that, you know, when you have somebody like Donald Trump at the top, you know, somebody that's really, really fit, won several golf tournaments, is like the 18 time champion of the Bedminster Seniors Golf tournament. And so when you have somebody with that kind of athletic prowess leading the movement, I just think it kind of.

[Tim Miller]

Trickles down among the people there's a connection to. So obviously we're having this military parade next week. Oh, I guess you're not fans of the anniversary of the Continental Army. Not fans of what George Washington did for all of Us. Shame on you. But Michael Beschloss was talking about. I'm sorry to bring. Bring up that name here, but, but.

[Sarah Longwell]

Okay, but what's the next segment?

[Tim Miller]

But, no, but Eisenhower said he doesn't want, you know, military parades. We did one after World War I and World War II. We've done them in event of big victories after the Civil War. We don't just have military parades on a random day. Because what Eisenhower said is, that's not strong, that's fucking weak. That's what weak countries do to pretend that they're strong. And you see, like Jesse Wanderers go on tells you be like, well, men should do this and men can't do that. And they can't eat soup and they can't drink from straws. And it's like, why is the stronger thing to be unable to do stuff? Like, why? I don't, I genuinely don't understand it. It's like you're. You can't do all these things. Being a man means you have to do much, much less. That's how you show how strong you are. That doesn't make any sense to me. That doesn't make any sense at all.

[Sarah Longwell]

It is a little faggy to eat soup. Let's just be honest. Is that wrong?

[Tara Hoots]

I don't know. But when I slurping, when I see Donald Trump throwing himself a big, like, military parade with tanks, that's when I really think about tiny Ds, like, yeah, for sure. That is a one big compensation ceremony.

[Tim Miller]

For sure, for sure. Yeah. Like, look at that ICBM going by. So how could I, you know? You know, it's the Corvette. It's the military version of the Corvette, in a sense. Let's continue the clip.

[Sarah Longwell]

Men want to be led by other men.

[Tim Miller]

So Democrats need to become men. And then they can persuade men. But they have to lift first. I'm serious.

[Sarah Longwell]

There's a quote by Maya Angelou. Dana.

[Brett Baier]

Thank you.

[Sarah Longwell]

Could you ask permission from Dana before you keep going? People will forget what you said.

[Tim Miller]

People will forget what you did, but.

[Sarah Longwell]

People will never forget how you made them feel.

[Tim Miller]

Bitch. Stop. How many loops in that fucking grave do we think she did? Like, is it a full. Like, how many? Like, it's like a car going over a cliff. She's like on bottom, you know, just fully rolling and rolling and rolling and rolling.

[Tara Hoots]

It must be hard to be a man. Cause it's like you can't drink out of straws. But you must quote Maya Angelou.

[Sarah Longwell]

How much Maya do you think Jesse's read Like, how familiar with his oeuvre do you think he is?

[Tim Miller]

Oh, I think he's familiar with BrainyQuotes.com. i think he's also, like, as Abraham Lincoln once said, live, laugh, love. According to Gandhi, you miss all the shots you don't take. Quoting Maya Angelou on the Five. On the Five. People don't like the way they feel.

[John Lovett]

Around Democrats.

[Sarah Longwell]

Because Democrats don't like the way they feel.

[Tim Miller]

And if they lifted, they feel better. And then everybody around them would feel better.

[Sarah Longwell]

You had me admire. Okay, bitch, stop. I mean, I do think Joe Biden probably has an uncomfortable touch that said, keep me as far away from Jesse Waters as possible, you know? So I think that, you know, I'm not sure that he is the best messenger. Maybe.

[Tara Hoots]

But should we test, like, Let me. What he's saying is, men like to be around men who lift. Fact check. True.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. During World Pride, for sure.

[Tara Hoots]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

It's so. It really is like the horseshoe theory for heterosexuality. It's like, how straight are you? I'll tell you how straight I am. I only want to see the fucking hottest guys. I'm so straight that I don't want to. I do not like talking to women. I don't think they're really people. I want to see fucking ripped dudes. I think about them. I think about what it takes to be a ripped dude. It's on my mind. I see Chuck Schumer. Don't want to fuck him. Something's off. Something's up. Now, John Thune. John Thune could have his way with me. That's called leadership. I'm a straight man.

[Tara Hoots]

He just wants to sit there with John Thune and quote Maya Angelou back and forth. And that's what they call Saturday night. Sounds good.

[Tim Miller]

And that's bitch. Stop.

[Tara Hoots]

Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

All right. Now, while they might try to ban our books, they can't stop us from keeping the library open. Well, not the literal libraries, but the library of the gay little human heart remains open 24 7, and it's full of the gnarliest reads we here at this show could muster. So joining me on stage. Oh, wait. Oh, no, no. I'm going out to the audience. I know what we're doing. I know how to run a show. So can we bring up the lights?

[Sarah Longwell]

Love? It was on a red eye. All right, we can just let him.

[Tim Miller]

So here's how.

[Sarah Longwell]

I don't know the ones.

[Tim Miller]

First of all. Hi, everybody. So here's how this works. I'm gonna come out there, all right? And we're gonna do. We have some rose jokes, and we'd like to hear you have a chance to throw some shade, as the kids say, 10 years ago at some of these. You know, Trump, if you're straight. Hey, do me a favor. Keep your hands in your fucking pockets, all right? We love that you're here, but we don't need to hear you. Okay, straights tonight. Seen, not heard. All right, I'm coming.

[Tara Hoots]

He just leaves the stage.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, hello.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, he's just prancing around in that little skirt. Look at him.

[Tim Miller]

Who would like to do our first joke or praise? All right, I'm coming to you. I'm coming to you. I'm coming to you. Please stay seated.

[Sarah Longwell]

I will sit.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. All right, here's the joke here. Give us the joke.

[Sarah Longwell]

Donald Trump. Given how he uses makeup and tries to destroy anyone who shares the stage with him. Donald Trump is our first drag queen president, so that's at least one queen I wouldn't trust around kids.

[Tim Miller]

Nice. All right, who wants to go down? Coming around. I'm coming around. I'm coming around. I'm coming around. I'm coming around. Who wanted to go over here? I saw someone. Oh, hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. All right, hit us with these JD Vance zingers. JD Vance. Talk about someone with no charisma. JD Vance has never slayed in his life, except for one time in Vatican City. Nice. Really good here. Here, let's do that second J.D. vance one there. J.D.

[Sarah Longwell]

Vance has always wanted to be a man's man, but failing that, he'll happily be Donald Trump's bitch.

[Tim Miller]

Nice. Nice. These are good.

[Sarah Longwell]

A little on the nose. Love it for that one. A little on the nose.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Okay, good note. We'll fix it in post, I guess. Who else wants to go? Hi. Hi. Oh, right. All right, here. Oh, okay. This is perfect. Okay. It says for a lesbian, but just a woman works. Okay. I don't know. I just don't know your story. I don't know your story. Okay, read both of these jokes, right, starting from there. Seeing RFK Jr.

[Michael Fanone]

Always makes me wonder, can someone be a double lesbian?

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, you got him. You zinged them. You zing them real good. Now, wait, don't do the second one. You're doing great. You're doing great. We need more lesbian.

[Brett Baier]

What?

[Tim Miller]

Did you hear the power lesbian thing earlier? Confidence. Do the next bit.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm nervous.

[Tim Miller]

I love you. You're nervous. That's. That's stupid. All right, read the next. Read the next one. You got it. You're doing great. It's the same feeling as excitement. Here we go.

[Michael Fanone]

RFK Jr. Is truly a man who has everything. At least according to his most recent blood work.

[Tim Miller]

See, that's pretty good. Did great. You're doing great. Great job. From the spouse of a Kenyan of love. Who else wants to go? Okay, I'll come over to you. Oh, we have some more RFK material. That's fun. Hi. Yeah, hi. Here, read this card.

[Tara Hoots]

RFK Jr recently faced blowback after going for a swim in DC's Rock Creek.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, I'm sorry.

[Michael Fanone]

I read that wrong.

[Tim Miller]

After swimming in DC's Rock Creek, RFK Jr.

[Tara Hoots]

Blew back. Blew out from diarrhea.

[Tim Miller]

What'd you think of that one, Tim?

[Sarah Longwell]

The execution on the read wasn't great, so I missed the punchline.

[Tim Miller]

Wow. Shame, shame, shame, shame. I'm in the crowd now. It feels awesome. Wait, who else wants. Okay, I'll come over to try. Oh, my legs do look great. Thank you. Hi. Okay, read this next one about RFK junior. Say what you will about RFK junior but he's truly killing it. And by it, I mean the entire.

[Sarah Longwell]

Herd of deer he's hit with his.

[Tim Miller]

Car and stashed in his trunk for later.

[Tara Hoots]

That was a good read, Sarah.

[Tim Miller]

What'd you think of that one?

[Tara Hoots]

Well, I think it was well read, well delivered.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, look at that. Look at that. Okay, who wants to go next? Who wants to. Okay. Hi. Okay. Hi. Hi. Okay. Oh, Sarah and Tim, we have two Mike Johnson jokes that are in the same kind of vein.

[Sarah Longwell]

Okay.

[Tim Miller]

All right. And we couldn't decide, so you're gonna pick your favorite.

[Sarah Longwell]

Okay.

[John Lovett]

All right.

[Tim Miller]

Joke number one.

[Tara Hoots]

Oh, great. I have to read Mike Johnson.

[Tim Miller]

Well, what'd you think was gonna happen when you raise your fucking hand? No. You're out. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[Tara Hoots]

I'm a nervous reader. English is my second language. Mike Johnson threw all of his weight behind one big, beautiful bill this month. He also helped pass the budget reconciliation package.

[Tim Miller]

That one's a thinker. She did great. What?

[Sarah Longwell]

He put all his weight behind big, beautiful Bill. Bill is a guy. A man named Bill. And it's not a great sign. We have to explain the joke, but I enjoyed it. That was a joke. That was kind of like my Troye Sivan joke earlier. It was only for me.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, well, let's try this one. You want to go? Okay, here we go. Okay. Mike Johnson uses an app where he and his son monitor each other's porn.

[John Lovett]

Use, presumably to prevent him from looking.

[Tim Miller]

At one big, beautiful Guy named Bill.

[Tara Hoots]

That's good. I forgot about that first one.

[Sarah Longwell]

First one was.

[Tim Miller]

First one. First one. All right.

[Sarah Longwell]

Hi.

[Tim Miller]

Hi.

[Sarah Longwell]

This is kind of a. Okay, here's high minded.

[Tim Miller]

Dan Bongino, FBI Deputy Director. You're right, Dan Bongino. Epstein did kill himself after listening to your shitty podcast. Got him.

[Sarah Longwell]

I like that.

[Tim Miller]

Got him.

[Sarah Longwell]

I like that. Now that's combining a couple of my interests.

[Tim Miller]

Everyone to know something. I believe that is the first time someone has edited the joke as he read it. And you know, next time it's one for me and then one for you. Okay. Oh, hi. Hi.

[Sarah Longwell]

Hi.

[Tim Miller]

Okay. Hi. Oh, my God, I'm so sweaty. Okay. Oh, there's so many people over here.

[Sarah Longwell]

Love it. Are you gonna have enough energy for the club later? Think about that swamp ass. What happens if things get a little frisky tonight?

[Tim Miller]

We'll be right back. Up next, Sarah gets into it with Congressman Robert Garcia.

[Tara Hoots]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

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[Tim Miller]

Too much.

[John Lovett]

So that's important. You also can get alerts if bills increase in price or there's unusual spending activity, or if you're close to going over budget. So that's nice and helpful. The new goals feature automatically saves money for you so you don't have to think about it. You can help pay off bills, put away money for a house, or just build your savings. Rocket Money makes it easy. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you. That's pretty cool. They automatically scan your bills to find opportunities to save. Then you can ask them to negotiate for you. They'll deal with customer service so you don't have to. This is like Putting. Putting Lovett out of a job.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. What?

[John Lovett]

Usually the big negotiator.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, I like to negotiate.

[John Lovett]

And Rocket Money is going to do it for you now.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, no.

[John Lovett]

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[Sarah Longwell]

Tipping culture is out of control.

[Michael Fanone]

Yesterday, I tipped someone just for handing me a napkin.

[Tim Miller]

So when hotels.com gives me up to 20% off for being a member, I finally get tipped. And you know what?

[Sarah Longwell]

It feels good.

[Tim Miller]

Hotels.com members save up to 20% off.

[Michael Fanone]

At hundreds of thousands of hotels.

[Tara Hoots]

Please welcome Congressman Robert Garcia from California. Hi. How are you there?

[Michael Fanone]

You sit right here.

[Tara Hoots]

Ok. My drink's right here, my friend. Thank you for being here.

[Brett Baier]

Happy to be here.

[Tara Hoots]

You know, I have been so impressed with you because you have been very vocal. You've been outspoken. You've been somebody who's been standing up and saying something about Andre and what's happening.

[Tim Miller]

Tell me why.

[Tara Hoots]

Yes, yes.

[Michael Fanone]

Cheer.

[Tara Hoots]

Tell me why it upset you so much. Tell me why you got vocal.

[Brett Baier]

Absolutely. I mean, first, thank you all for being here. Andrea is such, especially during Pride Month, this is such an important story for all of us to uplift and to push. This is what's happening right now should be alarming and concerning every single person in this country and what's happening. Every single person. So for me, obviously, as a openly gay person, I'm also an immigrant. I came to this country as a young kid. And so I feel very much I can relate and I connect to his story. And what drives me absolutely crazy is that we, the United States government, gave Andre the appointment. We told him, come to the United States at a port of entry on this date and on this time for your asylum process and interview. We told him to come to the interview. So he comes to the port of entry to do his interview. He passes that first check that essentially that first interview process, and then after that, he gets, of course, sent to the detention center and then taken to a country that he is not from in a foreign prison that we know nothing about with no proof of life. That is shameful. Donald Trump, Christy Noem, Marco Rubio. Should all be ashamed of themselves. They're causing massive harm, not just to Andrew, but to everybody else. And we. This. This fires me up because I don't understand how we can be so cruel as a country. This is a country that was built largely on immigrant labor, and we know this to be true. And I remember, you know, we went down to El Salvador to advocate for not just Andrew, but to ensure that people are getting their due process. And I think what's really important, what I've told folks, including some more conservative members and Republicans, I've said, look, regardless of your opinion on the immigration debate, and we all have different opinions. This is about due process. This is about the Constitution of the United States and whether we're going to defend it. And I remember looking at the ambassador, the US Ambassador to El Salvador, in El Salvador, just directly at him. We were this close away from each other. And I shared with him Andre's story, and he looked right back to me and said, you know, I. This is the first I've. I've heard of this. And I'm sitting here thinking. We've been promoting and talking about him, and people are talking about him across the country, and this is the first that you are hearing about his story. And he. That part. And he, you know, he. That day told me that he would be. He would do an inquiry, and he actually did the first official inquiry to try to get a wellness check on him, which, of course, we never got. And so since then to now, the work you're all doing to telling his story is so important, we cannot forget him. We must get a proof of life. We are demanding a proof of life check. And I'm just grateful just to be a part of advocating for him and his story.

[Tara Hoots]

Well, thank you for doing that and thank you for being here. They are bringing. We just found out. We just found out they're going to bring Kilmar Abrego Garcia back and they're going to try him, which is just. That is it right?

[Michael Fanone]

I think.

[Tara Hoots]

I think the Republicans right now are sort of like, oh, we're going to show you that this is a bad guy. And I'm sort of like, I don't care if he's a bad guy because he still deserves due process. Like, that is what we're doing here, right?

[Sarah Longwell]

That's right.

[Tara Hoots]

Like, if he's a bad guy, prove it, and then we can all move on.

[Brett Baier]

But, like, that's exactly right.

[Tara Hoots]

But here's. Look, I spent a long time as a Republican, and I haven't seen it for maybe a decade now. But when I was coming up as a Republican, they talked a lot about the Constitution, about due process, about the rule of law, about all these things that mattered to them that became sort of the. That were the underpinnings of democracy. How do your Republican colleagues justify sending people, disappearing them to foreign countries without due process?

[Brett Baier]

Well, I think, I mean, they can't. I mean, the reality is, is that they, they're completely focused on doing whatever Donald Trump tells them to do, following their leader. And they know, and many of them know, that the things they're advocating for are against the Constitution. I mean, the Constitution means nothing to them anymore. And, you know, and I really believe this. There are probably other immigrants here in this theater, and I truly believe this, that immigrants, those of us that have gone through the process of becoming US Citizens, we are some of the most patriotic people in this country. We love this country. And I think I have the right to be a US Citizen. I get the honor of serving in Congress because I fought for citizenship. I fought for the thing that most folks here were born with. So immigrants that go through that process believe in this country, and we want to fight for it. And so in the case of these Republicans, I mean, they most have been born into this incredible honor and privilege of being a United States citizen and forget where their parents or their grandparents came from and the struggles that they had to go through to also come to this country. And I'll say this, and you mentioned the Abrego Garcia case. We have the Supreme Court in a 9.0 decision, said that he deserved his due process. And the important thing is everyone deserves their day in court. I don't know what Mr. Abrego Garcia did or didn't do, but he does have a right under the Constitution to defend himself in front of a judge, in a courtroom. He has that right. And so whether what he did or what he didn't do, that will be up to a judge and a jury. What we have to do and every single person in this room needs to do, is to defend the Constitution of the United States, which affords, as we all know, all persons, not just U.S. citizens. It affords all persons in this country the right to due process. And we can't forget that the founders.

[Tara Hoots]

Knew what they were doing when they said all persons, they knew. You know, I was just. We did a rally right before this. Maybe some of you were there. But I do just want to say something that I said there. Yeah, Great. Thank you for coming. Thank you for coming. It was my first, like I said, my first rally, my first protest. But, you know, when you came up as a Young Republican, I swear to God, Republicans were different on immigration than they are now. I remember, I'm telling you, Reagan used to say he had this great line about how you could go to Japan and you'd never be Japanese and you could move to France and you'd never be a Frenchman, but any person with freedom in their heart who loved the ideals of America could come be an American. And that was a thing that we people agreed was an American value.

[Brett Baier]

That's right.

[Tara Hoots]

Yeah. I'm going to quote Reagan up here. All right, so tell me. This is something I've wondered, and a lot of people ask that. This shows. They all want to know, what can I do? And one of the things they ask is they're like, I don't know. I call my congressman, but I don't know if it matters. You're a congressman. Tell us, does it matter when people call?

[Brett Baier]

It does matter. And I think that we. We and all others, especially, you know, folks that are engaged, we track what folks that call, what they're calling about. It does matter. What we also need, though, we need folks to call Republicans. We need folks to call those Republican members that need to be held accountable for just blindly supporting Donald Trump's policies. And we have to understand that at this moment, we have to be engaged. And I will tell you this right now, what's happening tonight and telling Andre's story. Please share his story. We have an opportunity also during Pride Month, where there's more attention on our stories, to uplift what's happening to him. Cause we know it's not just about him, but he does represent that idea of due process. And by uplifting him, we are uplifting due process. We're uplifting the Constitution and trying to make our country and the world a better place.

[Tara Hoots]

Yeah. I have one last important question.

[Brett Baier]

Sure.

[Tara Hoots]

So you were very involved in ousting a colleague of yours named George Santos, AKA Kintaro Ravage.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yes.

[Tara Hoots]

Why'd you do. What was the reason for that? Gay.

[Tim Miller]

On gay violence.

[Brett Baier]

Man, I have. I have so many George Santos stories. We'd be here all night. But I'll just start. I met him. I met George during our orientation. And, you know, first I was struck, of course, I obviously gay Latino, and on the other side is another gay Latino. And I thought, well, maybe there's, you know, an opportunity here just to have some, like, bipartisan friendship. I mean, I don't know. I. I knew that he was already. His ideas were already pretty extreme. And so I generally not try not to engage with people that don't believe in, like, human rights for LGBTQ + people and other folks. And as we more. We learned more and more about him, I just got really angry about it, and I thought, this is someone that is working to dismantle our rights. And yet you're from the same community. And so pretty early on, when I was a freshman, I made the very first expulsion motion on the floor of the House to expel George Santos. And I submitted. And everyone, a lot of folks were like, this is a bad idea. You're a freshman. You shouldn't do this. And I was like, fuck it. We got to lean in. We got to do it. And I remember we filed the resolution and we forced a vote. And that initial vote that we took is what then got Kevin McCarthy at the time to then take that. That motion, table it, send it to the Ethics Committee for them to do their report. The Ethics Committee does their report, and then months later, once that report comes out, it triggered that second expulsion vote.

[Tara Hoots]

That then report came out, and everybody was like, I'm sorry, what?

[Brett Baier]

Exactly. And then that came. And then that came out. And then, of course, we expelled him really quickly. The day of the vote, I went to the back of the house with him, and he wanted to talk. I said, okay, let's talk. So we go to the back by the cloakroom, and we're about to vote to expel him, like, within 30 minutes.

[Tara Hoots]

That's awkward.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah.

[Brett Baier]

And obviously, I helped start the whole thing. And so he word in the back, and he's trying to convince me still that he shouldn't get expelled. And I remember I looked him right in the eye and I said, you know, I said, george, I said, one is, you deserve to be expelled. But I also hope that you can reflect and you take this time to think about who you are and that deep down, like, I want you to get better. Like, I want. I. There was a moment, like, where I felt I was just looking at somebody that was really sad. And it doesn't excuse the horrific things that he has done or voted on. And he should be held accountable for those. And he's now going to be held accountable for the crimes he committed.

[Tara Hoots]

He's been indicted.

[Brett Baier]

Exactly. But there was a moment where I did feel, so us, as gay people, as queer people, we sometimes have a very hard path to getting to who we really are. And so I felt a little bit for him. And I'm Glad he is going to be held accountable for what he did. And I hope that on his way out, he works on himself.

[Tara Hoots]

You have a good heart, man. Guys, let's give it up. All right. Thank you so much.

[Tim Miller]

Happy Pride.

[Brett Baier]

Happy Pride.

[Sarah Longwell]

I got to tell you. Thank you so much, Congressman, I have to. I got to tell you, I thought that. What? What? I couldn't let Lovett be the only one in a skirt.

[Tim Miller]

I couldn't be shown up by love blocking.

[Sarah Longwell]

You just stood right in front of. Sorry if this is inappropriate.

[Tim Miller]

You just stood right in front of Sarah.

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, yeah. Is Sarah still here? The. I was thinking that George Santos cloak room story was going to go somewhere else. I got to tell you, I thought you were building.

[Brett Baier]

Absolutely not.

[Sarah Longwell]

We went to the cloak room.

[Tim Miller]

I told you my. I hope you get help. What did he say?

[Brett Baier]

No, I think that he was just. I mean, honestly, he was really upset and sad and he said, thank you. I hope I do, too. Something to that effect. And then we voted to expel him.

[Tim Miller]

And then he went to go sit down for an interview with zway. Congressman, thank you so much. Thanks, guys. Thank you for being here. Thanks, guys.

[John Lovett]

Pod Save America is brought to you by the Human Rights Campaign. All across America, Trump and his MAGA cronies are trying to roll back LGBTQ rights, pushing bills that promote hate. It's gross, despicable, and has no place in our country. That's why we are proud to be partnering with the Human Rights Campaign today. For hrc, supporting LGBTQ rights isn't just a mission. It's a promise to stand up against hate. That means confronting Trump's dangerous anti LGBTQ agenda. Head on this Pride month, show your support for LGBTQ equality.

[Tim Miller]

John, I just think after you said LGBTQ four times, you should just get to say gays and they thank you. I give you that permission. Really?

[John Lovett]

Once you get to the T and the Q, it's the G. G is hard. GB I don't know. There's something that all fire all of them together lgbt.

[Tim Miller]

He's a great ally. He's a great lgbt.

[John Lovett]

LGBT ally can do that. That's pretty easy. Go to HRC.im/give now to donate and propel HRC's critical work forward. Your donation to HRC helps drive progress, protect these and gays rights.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. See, it's good.

[John Lovett]

And build a world where every LGBTQ person can live openly and thrive free from fear. The fight for equality has been significantly harder this year. Our fundamental freedoms and our very existence are under attack by those in power. And that's why this Pride HRC needs your support to help fight back against the escalating threats to our rights and our progress. This work is only possible with the support of folks like you. We face incredible challenges, but we must continue to fight for the future we believe in. Together, we can do this. Because these colors don't run nice. If you can, please give today at HRC Im Givenow. That's HRC Im Givenow.

[Tim Miller]

Wait, you're not a Hotels.com member, so you're choosing to pay full price?

[Sarah Longwell]

Did you not hear the song?

[Tara Hoots]

How could you not be a member and save up to 20%?

[Sarah Longwell]

That's less than 5, 50%, but it's more than 0%.

[Tim Miller]

You're welcome. See, the math is mathing. Save up to 20% on hundreds of thousands of hotels with hotels dot com. Listen, Pride, it's about anything. It's about the superiority of gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, queer, asexual, two spirits. Whatever is going on with the I. Plus, plus if you're in the plus. Still, if you're figuring. No, none of those apply to me. I'm plus. I'm plus if you're plus. Love that, too for you. Which is why it's time for a game we're calling Capture the Flag. Nope. Okay, there we go. Oh, wow. Now.

[Tara Hoots]

Oh, you guys were very generous to yourselves there.

[Sarah Longwell]

Well, that looks about right for me. I don't know about life.

[Tim Miller]

That's just me after a pump. Get my pump on, get the lighting right. That's all it takes. Now, we can't just do this with gays alone, because it's time to pit the gays against the straights. So we need some support. All right, let's start by bringing out one additional member of our gay family to help us round out your team. This will be Sarah and Tim. Let's please welcome to the stage DC's own wonderful drag queen, Tara Hoots.

[Sarah Longwell]

Oh, hey.

[Tim Miller]

Hey, girl.

[Sarah Longwell]

What's happening?

[Tim Miller]

Why don't you go right here for now? All right, Just in case there's confusion, I'm a man in a dress, all right?

[Tara Hoots]

Literally three men. I'm the only one in pants.

[Tim Miller]

Well, you know, like, look, when Crooked and the Bulwark were deciding to figure out how to do this event, we're like, well, we got to figure out who to talk to. And we said, who wears the pants at the Bulwark? That should have worked better. That was pearls before swine. Sometimes it's my fault. That one's on you, Tara. Hoots. Yes, darling. I love that. Now you're from. Is it from Terre Hoot, Indiana? I was born in Terre Haute, Indiana, hence my name. Terre Hoot. Yes. Are you Hoosiers out there? We got out. We got out, darlings. Yes. Now, you are a renowned D.C. queen, and you were bumped off the Kennedy center programming schedule by its new artistic director and genius, Donald Trump. No space on the sketch. So we actually. I was part of a drag show that was the Trump got really mad about the family specific one. That was one that I was involved in. Yeah. And he was angry because he thought it would be inappropriate to have somebody out there talking about drugs and all the kinds of, you know, all the horrible things that might. Someone might say in the space of children. Now, I've been a teacher for 27 years, and I. Yes, thank you. And I've been a drag queen since the pandemic. And I describe my type of drag as like, Mr. Rogers in a dress. Right. And, like, I just want to lift people up, and if they complain about what I do, they don't know what I do. What do you do? Basically, I started doing drag because I wanted. I thought the world was terrible, and it really hasn't changed, has it? During the pandemic, I wanted to lift people up and bring joy and love to people. So that's what I do with my drag. Well, thank you for being here. Absolutely. Let's do this. Now we need to do some choreography, so I would love to have the gay team come over here.

[Sarah Longwell]

Right, hold on, let's.

[Tim Miller]

Is that Tara Hoots? Okay. And Sarah and Tim in this zone over here, because it's time to meet your competitors.

[Sarah Longwell]

Right? Bring it on, straights now. How you doing, girl?

[Tim Miller]

Now, first up, you really got lucky.

[Sarah Longwell]

You really got lucky. You would have had to hang out with Rick Grinnell had they kept you at the Kennedy Center. Big best firing ever happened to you.

[Tim Miller]

Biggie dodgeball. Now, I want to bring out two, I believe they're called. I think it's pronounced straight. The G is silent. It's weird, actually. Weird that the G is silent. There's a G inside of str. There's a G inside of every straight when you think about it. Something to think about. So please welcome, from the Bulwark, Sam Stein. And come on out, Sam. Come on out and.

[Sarah Longwell]

Dress like a lesbian. Kind of an owl, really.

[Tim Miller]

And because Sam is straight, but in journalist a way, we wanted to bring out a man. So please welcome Michael Fone, who is a hero. Come on, Michael. The former Capitol Police officer.

[Sarah Longwell]

Now that is a man. Take it off.

[Tim Miller]

Thank you, Michael, for being here.

[Sarah Longwell]

Take it off. Let's unbutton a couple of those.

[Tim Miller]

Look at this. Look at this. Michael, I have a question for you. They love you. Have you find it helpful to get tips on how to be a man from Jesse Waters?

[Sarah Longwell]

No.

[Tim Miller]

That'S. That. That's a straight man. That's a strong strile. That's a straight man right there. No. Now, I do want to say that you have a little bit of advantage in this game, because we were talking before the show, and you have some experience. This is true. You did have to go undercover. Is this right?

[Sarah Longwell]

I did. 2011, 2012. I spent two summers undercover working in some of your fine gay clubs right.

[Tim Miller]

Here in Washington, D.C. what was your favorite? We talked about this backstage.

[Sarah Longwell]

My favorite was Apex. Oh, yeah, the video bar. That video bar got real.

[Tim Miller]

Now, you were saying that you were. You were working with another officer, right?

[Sarah Longwell]

I was.

[Tim Miller]

And now the first time you did it, you went in and. Well, why don't you tell us what happened?

[Sarah Longwell]

All right, so.

[Tim Miller]

This is good stuff.

[Sarah Longwell]

I got.

[Tim Miller]

I got no detail.

[Sarah Longwell]

I got detail to the Second District, the great Second District here in Washington, D.C. for the summer. They were having an influx of crystal meth in a lot of the.

[Tim Miller]

Tina.

[Sarah Longwell]

We go, Tina. Yeah, yeah, Tina. Yeah.

[Tim Miller]

So.

[Sarah Longwell]

I go. I've heard. Not for me. So it was me and. And one of my buddies who was assigned to the 6th district, which is east of the Anacostia river, and the two of us got temporarily detailed to 2D, and we were part of this investigation, and we were going into a bunch of different gay clubs. The first club we went to was Fireplace. And so this is, like, my first experience inside of, you know, a place such as this. And, yeah, I remember going in there, and I was like, all right.

[Tim Miller]

I told him, I'm not going to.

[Sarah Longwell]

Name names, but we'll call him Bill. I was like, well, we're going to divide and conquer. I was like, we don't know each other. We're going into the place. We're both going to go in. You know, we pros, we've been buying crack, heroin, everything else. Like, we can. We can do this. And so we get into the club, I sit down at the bar, and, like, within five shit seconds, there's, like, some. One guy's, like, holding my hand, and another guy's, like, literally, like, kissing on my earlobe. And I was like, all right, well, I'm just trying to buy some fucking Drugs. So. So we came. We came back.

[Tara Hoots]

I could just hear Michael Fanon being not that kind of crack.

[Tim Miller]

But I.

[Sarah Longwell]

Was like, yeah, whatever. Like, is this what I got to do to, you know, get. Get the. The buy I've done worse things with, you know, whatever. Let's.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

[Sarah Longwell]

Anyway, so the next day we go back. The next day we go back, and we. I think we hit Apex and we went to Nelly's and a couple other spots, but we were like, we're a fucking couple, and we're in a monogamous. We're in a fucking monogamous relationship. Like that's ever stopped anybody at Nelly's before.

[Tim Miller]

Incredible. Incredible. So I can't think of a better straight person to join Sam in being part of this game. Now, here's how it works. I'm gonna ask the gays questions about straights. I'm gonna ask the straights questions about gays, and we'll see who takes it in the end. You have filthy fucking minds. All right.

[Sarah Longwell]

A lot of cards there.

[Tim Miller]

I also have a card that just says loose lesbian questions. All right, first question for the gays.

[Sarah Longwell]

All right.

[Tim Miller]

Now, do you go by. Do I say Tara or. Yes, you can call Tara. Tara. Or Ms. Hoot. Whatever works for you. Yes. Hoots. Or Hoot? Hoot. Ms. Hoot. Like, I'm Ms. Hoot. Thank you. Yes, Like Tara Haute. I get it. Okay. First up, director and Madison Square Garden staple Spike Lee recently said he would give up an Oscar to see what happen.

[Sarah Longwell]

The Knicks win the championship.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, he got it. He got it. He got it. There you go.

[Sarah Longwell]

I was sport gay.

[Tim Miller]

Okay? But the Pacers.

[Sarah Longwell]

You're a big Larry Bird fan.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Hick from French Lick, darling.

[Sarah Longwell]

The Pacers win last night.

[Tim Miller]

I know. Last second shot. Last second shot, baby. I'm from a town that has two Mr. Basketballs from Indiana, so try me.

[Sarah Longwell]

All right.

[Tim Miller]

Yes.

[Tara Hoots]

Are there any questions about women's soccer? No.

[Tim Miller]

No.

[Sarah Longwell]

We're getting the straight.

[Tim Miller]

Okay.

[Sarah Longwell]

We get the straight questions. Straight men do not watch women. Women's soccer. Except for the Brandi Carlisle or whatever.

[Tim Miller]

You're talking to a shoe. I am an Angel City season ticket holder, thank you very much. All right.

[Sarah Longwell]

Because 1 0.

[Tim Miller]

All right, you're up. A new Pew research study shows that LGBTQ Americans are twice as likely to be into astrology. In astrology or big Three, consist of your rising sign, your sun sign, and your. What? Don't Google it. Don't Google it. You don't know tomato soup? No. Call it out. It's Their moon sign. Now, I will just also say to all of you that believe in astrology, you're welcome. That you get to live in the light that science fucking provides you. Unbelievable. Next up, for the gays. What brand makes these iconic patterned bags? Oh, wait, I heard someone say, shut up, straight culture. What is this? You don't know? They don't know.

[Sarah Longwell]

What in the fuck is this?

[Tim Miller]

Wow.

[Sarah Longwell]

That is hideous.

[Tim Miller]

That's so interesting. Right? Because Sarah is. I should know. But she doesn't know because she's not a straight woman.

[Tara Hoots]

Is that a purse?

[Tim Miller]

No.

[Tara Hoots]

What is it?

[Sarah Longwell]

Flower purse.

[Tim Miller]

It's not lily poo. They don't know either. I mean, I like it. I see a straight woman raising her hand. What is it? It's Vera Bradley. Vera Bradley?

[John Lovett]

Wow.

[Tim Miller]

I don't know.

[Sarah Longwell]

Ter whispers to me. She goes, is it Vera Wang?

[Tim Miller]

I heard Vera out there.

[Sarah Longwell]

Someone says Wang is in there.

[Tim Miller]

Next up, Euphoria. Star Hunter Schaefer is rumored to be up for the titular role of what video game adaptation. That's so hard. Yeah, that's right. A video game adaptation starring Hunter Schaefer from Euphoria. You know her, don't you? Michael Fanon?

[Sarah Longwell]

I don't know. This shit is rigged.

[Tim Miller]

Is this the last of us? What? No, it's not the last. I was the only one I had. It's Zelda. It's the Legend of Zelda. It's the Legend of Zelda.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah. She's a Zelda.

[Tim Miller]

Did you know that one?

[Sarah Longwell]

None of your business. It's 1 0. I think their questions were going to be things like, what do poppers do for you during sex?

[Tim Miller]

You know what?

[Sarah Longwell]

I was going to be a little gayer.

[Tim Miller]

You know what? Next question. What do poppers do? That must have come up in your research as you got into character. Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah Longwell]

So this is not undercover manner of ingestion. Inhaled.

[Tim Miller]

That's right.

[Sarah Longwell]

They provide a temporary euphoria.

[Tim Miller]

Okay, yeah, yeah.

[Sarah Longwell]

But. But what about during sex, though? Nitrates.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, that's right. Here we go. We got a point for that. I'm giving it to him.

[Sarah Longwell]

All right, one, one.

[Tim Miller]

Great job. Job. Back over to the gays. Country singer Morgan Wallen posted what phrase to his Instagram after appearing to storm off the Saturday Night Live stage. Back in.

[Tara Hoots]

I gotta get back to real America.

[Tim Miller]

I'm in a country. God's country. Saved it. A lesbian saved by a drag queen. A first time for everything. All right, next question for the Straits. What is this object?

[Tara Hoots]

Oh, I know.

[Tim Miller]

Is that a carabiner? You Got it. Sam Stein. Dude, what's up?

[Sarah Longwell]

I was gonna say that. I was gonna say carabiner, but then I was thinking like this gotta be some weird sex thing.

[Tim Miller]

That's an anal speed.

[Sarah Longwell]

I gotta say lesbians, please don't do sex.

[Tim Miller]

I didn't know.

[Tara Hoots]

We use it to carry our keys.

[Tim Miller]

To your Subaru. To the gays. What two kinds of alcohol are in a Manhattan? Whiskey and sweet vermouth. You got it. Yes. Gotta say yes. The drag queen are carrying them. Drag queens carrying them. All right. Another a drag themed question for our straights. Please name one of these two drag queens. Incredibly popular. Have an incredibly popular podcast. Don't say a word. Don't say a fucking word. Can you name one of these people? Oh, my God. They are famous. They are celebrities.

[Sarah Longwell]

One of them is my flat profile picture.

[Tim Miller]

Oh, my God.

[Tara Hoots]

I have no idea who these.

[Tim Miller]

You have no idea?

[Tara Hoots]

No idea.

[Tim Miller]

You don't know either. I have no idea. Sarah, go over here. Shane, Shane, get on. Same, same. You know what?

[Sarah Longwell]

We're done with the L's.

[Tara Hoots]

I really like Sam's shirt. I would wear Sam's shirt.

[Sarah Longwell]

What is the L's out of here?

[Tim Miller]

I have no clue. Wow.

[Sarah Longwell]

Katya.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah. Trixie Mattel, baby. Yeah. All right. It's now. The game has now been revised to tops versus bottoms. All right. All right. Back over to the game.

[Sarah Longwell]

What side are we on?

[Tim Miller]

Last week, this Yellowstone spinoff starring Harrison Ford and Helen mirren aired at 6. Season 2 finale. What is the name of the show? It has numbers. It's like 1862 set during prohibition. It's numbers.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yellowstone.

[Tim Miller]

I think it's 1860-1862-1845-1935.

[Tara Hoots]

1876.

[Tim Miller]

Wrong. 1923. Oh, we were close.

[Tara Hoots]

I knew it was a date.

[Tim Miller]

All right.

[Sarah Longwell]

What is with you people and like horses and fucking buffalo? Who cares what's happening on the plains?

[Tim Miller]

All right, this one. Honestly, I'm nervous. All right. What year did the Stonewall riots happen? It was in the 60s. Okay, getting. That's okay. That's your one in ten shot. From here on out in the late 60s, I'm gonna go with 60D.

[Sarah Longwell]

Nice.

[Tim Miller]

Nine. You got it. Somebody gave him the Eat it.

[Sarah Longwell]

That's okay. We'll let him have it. We'll let him have it.

[Tim Miller]

Judy Garland died that year. Let's close this out. Is there a question?

[Sarah Longwell]

Nobody cares if you know the answer to the question, okay? It's a competition up here. All right? So just keep it to yourself.

[Tim Miller]

That's right. I wanted to Say that. But I can't because I'm a good Christian woman. All right, all right. This is gonna be a question for both teams. Okay? This is it. We're tied.

[Tara Hoots]

Bisexuals are not allowed to answer, right? It's a slow burn on that one.

[Tim Miller]

What was the first lesbian wedding to take place on television? Ellen DeGeneres. No, fuck. That's just a lesbian. That's just one lesbian. That's just naming all lesbian you could think of.

[Sarah Longwell]

Name a lesbian.

[Tim Miller]

I didn't say name a lesbian. Michael Fanon. Name a lesbian. Sarah.

[Sarah Longwell]

Sarah.

[Tara Hoots]

I'm the only lesbian you've heard of. Oh, man.

[Tim Miller]

Gays. You can take it if you know the answer. First lesbian wedding aired on television. Do either of you know I put.

[Sarah Longwell]

You on the other team? What the fuck? You don't know this one?

[Tara Hoots]

Hold on.

[Tim Miller]

This is bad. Sam, Wait.

[Michael Fanone]

Donald. Marry someone.

[Tim Miller]

I don't know.

[Sarah Longwell]

Is it in Dawson's Creek?

[Tim Miller]

God, no. Does anybody here know Friends? It was the Friends episode, The one with the lesbian wedding. And you know what? Honestly, because we have all of Pride, I want to thank our straights for being willing to subject themselves. Hey, everybody. Michael Fanone, Sam Stein. Two equally heterosexual men. Thank you both so much. And we're back. I've lost all my cards, but that's not important. First of all, thank you all for coming out tonight. There is nothing that brings Crooked and the Bulwark together quite like ranting about whatever happens to be on our minds. And so we thought we would end tonight's show in a way that was suited to our great desire for yelling. In a segment we're calling.

[Sarah Longwell]

Rant Wheel.

[Tim Miller]

The Rant Wheel. What did we call it? I think we called it Bulwark. Whatever. There's a wheel, and we're gonna yell about topics. Oh, my God. Do we not have a wheel? Are we up to that? Oh, here we go. Oh, my God. Oh, no. Tara Hoot. What? This is Pride. Is there something on your mind that you'd like to vent about just to be mad about or happy about? Happy about. Is there anything you'd like to be emotional about? Around 60 seconds. Listen. Okay. 60 seconds to drag me with a microphone. That's at least four minutes too short. All right, so I do want to say I did an event on Wednesday and with the drag artist. And the audience was so excited and so enthused, and I really feel like Washington, D.C. needs a lot of hope and joy right now, and I'm one of the. Ryan, we need to look up. We need to find Ways to be inspired, even though things like falling apart sometimes around us. And something I'm proud of, I'm gonna say that's just proud. I'm proud of. I got out of Indiana. I'm proud of my friends who are in Indiana, still in Newcastle, Indiana, who are fighting the good fight and making the place better for people. I'm proud of my husband, Mr. Hoot, who's in the wings, who was a government worker for 37 years. He was forced out of the federal government by this. By this. And I'm like, I'm so mad at the people. If you are, those people have been treated so poorly. Know that I see you. I love you. Thank you, our government workers, for doing so much for everybody. I think that I'm a little over clamped. All right, I got a little. But that. That just makes me so mad. I think it's evil. It's angry. And I want to make sure that we're trying to lift people up and look for the kindness when there seems to be such a lack of it from who's running our country right now.

[Sarah Longwell]

Yeah, girl.

[Tim Miller]

It's a beautiful idea. It's a beautiful idea. Beautiful sentiment. Let's spin it again. Oh, it has landed on Sarah.

[Sarah Longwell]

It has landed on Sarah.

[Tim Miller]

We have an order. It's land. It is. It has land.

[Sarah Longwell]

Is that Sarah?

[Tim Miller]

It has landed on Sarah.

[Sarah Longwell]

She's getting butcher.

[Tara Hoots]

You guys run a tight show. I'll tell you what, man. All right, all right. I've got a ranch.

[Sarah Longwell]

I'm in this crooked bulwark collab.

[Tara Hoots]

I actually had hoped you were going next because following that with mine feels funny. But I'm gonna give you my rant unvarnished, which is, do we need to really, like, need a whole month for pride? Like, the way we do pride? Like, our need for a whole month is so extra and so on brand, and it's ridiculous. What? My Uber leaves a little rainbow trail as it goes. And, like, you walk into Target and you're like, oh, my God, did a rainbow throw up in here? Like, it just feels like, look, you want to do Black History Month? Whole month. Okay?

[Sarah Longwell]

The people are getting restless.

[Tara Hoots]

Oh, wait, I'm sorry. Did you just say I should stop?

[Tim Miller]

They don't like Target. They're mad at Target. They're mad at Target. They're mad at Target. All right, we got it.

[Tara Hoots]

Whatever, Whatever. The point is. The point is, I just think, like, a week is enough, and we don't need a whole month. And, like, it's enough.

[Tim Miller]

Shame, shame, shame, shame. Shame. Same.

[Tara Hoots]

I needed one of those tonight, and I decided it would be on my rant.

[Tim Miller]

The second somebody tells you something you don't want to hear, you turn on them. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Let's spin it again. Oh, it's landed on me. You know, here's what I wanted to say. Maybe it was a little more earnest, I suppose, but, you know, we started by saying how many things had to go wrong for us all to be on this stage together. There was this. When they sent up one of the satellites many years ago, they realized that they had made the mirrors wrong. The mirror before Elon Musk. Not his fault that they'd actually bent. They'd done the mirrors instead of. They were spherical instead of hyperbolic or hyperbolic instead of spherical. I don't remember which one is. Was spherical instead of hyperbolic. And what that meant is, even though it was imperceptible when it was on Earth, the heat from that light was so intense that it would shatter the mirror. It didn't work. It didn't work as a telescope. And one thing that I feel like I have learned over the last decade, as we faced all these different pressures and challenges from what happens when a country, a segment of a country, loses its faith in democracy and freedom is you see who bends and who breaks under pressure. And it is a gift to find out who has the stuff and who is strong enough and who really cares and who actually believes the things that they said for a long time. And I feel really honored that I get to work with Sarah and work with Tim, people that, you know, we Democrats, we Democrats, we talk a big game. We talk a big game, but we didn't really face a choice. We don't like Donald Trump because he's the fucking worst human being on planet Earth. And we oppose him because we oppose everything that he stands for, every policy he stands for. But there were a lot of people who faced a political choice and failed in that choice, but not Tim and not Sarah and not the people at the Bulwark. And as we think about building a small d Democratic movement, I feel really proud of the people that I've gotten to meet and know because it's revealed who was made strong enough and who was going to break. And the people that have broken, they're broken. And we know now. And now we get to figure out who we get to build something new with. So I feel really proud about that during this prime. Let's spin it one more time.

[Sarah Longwell]

I think it's going to be me.

[Tara Hoots]

I think it's going to be me, but it's.

[Sarah Longwell]

Look, I just wasn't on the board. All right, look.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, we talked about it. We thought, how should we end it? Two Tim Rants, one John Rant, the drag queen. We're done. Yeah.

[Sarah Longwell]

Out.

[Tim Miller]

All right, Tim, you've landed on you.

[Sarah Longwell]

I have a rant, but just really quick. That was really sweet, what Love had said, and I was trying to feel emotions about it, and then I'm in this, like, little tennis skirt, and I was like, can you compliment me again when I feel less uncomfortable? That would be great. Maybe another year. I also have a comment on Sarah's rant. What's the difference between the L's and the G's? Okay, we're going to Madrid Pride. Is anybody gonna be in Madrid Pride? We're doing a little vacation there. That's July 4th. So the G's are adding a week to Pride. She's trying to constrict us. We're trying to expand into July. I'm about to be sad for a little bit, so I'm sorry that I have to end you on something sad. But the reason that we're doing this is because of Andre. And I think there are two reasons why this has affected me so much. One is because kind of what Levitt was saying, I came out of this tradition of, like, being pro life and being pro freedom and thinking that that was, you know, what was animating my political work. And Jeb used to say something about how, you know, we wanted to make sure everybody had a chance to live a life of purpose and meaning. And I, like, believed that and thought it wasn't bs. And so the idea that we are doing that, Republicans, that Donald Trump, that our country is taking away somebody's life, their purpose and their meaning really pisses me off. And so that's one reason. And the other reason is just because, I guess just because both me and Andre are gay, I guess I can just imagine it. And I just want. I'm sorry to do this, but I just want everybody to imagine this with me for a second. He flees Venezuela, he flees communism. He takes a horrible journey across Central America, through Mexico, goes through unimaginable shit, has to deal with cartels, has to find food and shelter just to get to America because he wants. Because he thinks here he can live a life of purpose and meaning. He thinks he can be free. And he gets to the border and he does what he's supposed to do. He signs up for the stupid CBP1 app and explains why he had to flee a communist country. And then we let him in, and he sits in a cell and he's sexually harassed in the cell, and he is abused and attacked. And he is hoping that it's worth it, because at the end, there's this thing, there's this freedom in this country that he can get. And instead of that, one day he's in the cell and people come in there and they shackle him, and they shackle his legs and his hands, and they take him with other Venezuelans to a plane. And he's thinking, this is horrible, but at least I'm going home to Venezuela, right? At least I get to see my mother and my best friend. And instead of sending him to Venezuela, we send him to a fucking hell in El Salvador. And he gets off the plane and they beat him up and they shave his head, and he screams out for his freedom. And he says, I'm gay. I'm not a gang banger. I want just, you have the wrong person. And there's nothing he can do. And they put him in a fucking hole. And he's living a nightmare that, like, you can't imagine. Like, it is just an unimaginable nightmare. And the reason that he's living it is our country, is that we did it to him. Like, the US did it to him. And so it's up to us to get him the fuck out of this nightmare. And so sorry. And so that I can't look at Levitt right now because I'm going to cry. And so that's why we're doing this. And I really appreciate that you all came. I appreciate especially the gays that came because you could, you know, I don't know, have been at the music festival or something more fun. And so the lesbians were going to do something way less fun. So I appreciate you for coming, too, but also kind of. You're welcome.

[Tim Miller]

Yeah, look, here's the thing. The gays chose this instead of a concert. The lesbians, they would have been asleep by now.

[Sarah Longwell]

And so Sarah usually ends our Bulwark shows with something a little bit more uplifting. And so I want to give her the last word.

[Tara Hoots]

First of all, thanks, everybody so much for coming. This has been super fun, and you guys were a great, awesome audience. But here's the thing that we do close out most of the Bulwark shows with. And I really want to thank Crooked, though, for us doing this together. This was so fun to do together and to bring our audiences together. But, you know, the thing about Authoritarians is what they want from us. That's not a joke. Authoritarians are bad. The thing about authoritarians is they want you to be tired. Not like I did poppers all night and now I'm tired the next morning and I need brunch. They want you to feel, like, deeply exhausted. That's why they try to flood the zone with shit. It's why they try to do so many corrupt things that you don't know where to grab onto.

[Michael Fanone]

Right?

[Tara Hoots]

It's why they come back. They didn't lose. Donald Trump didn't lose the election. He just hadn't won yet. And why they come back and they try to keep you so tight, tired that you won't fight back. So confused, so unable to understand what is truth and what is fiction. And that's what they're doing to people, confusing them and making them tired. And so the one thing that we have to do and it relates to the Andre thing, is don't get tired ever. Like, we have to stay filled with energy to do this. Because the biggest thing they want from us is to be tired. So never get tired. Never stop. And let's get Andre home.

[Sarah Longwell]

Thank you all so much for coming.

[Tim Miller]

That's our show. Thank you so much to Tara Hoot.

[Sarah Longwell]

Thank you, Terry.

[Tim Miller]

Thank you to Michael Fanone and Sam Stein. Thank you to Congressman Garcia. Thank you to Andre's lawyer and everybody at the Immigrant Defenders Law Center. Thank you all for supporting this. Have a great night. We'll see you at Pride. Bye, everybody.

[John Lovett]

If you if you want to listen to Pod Save America ad free or get access to our subscriber discord and exclusive podcasts, consider joining our friends of the pod [e-mail] friends or subscribe on Apple Podcasts directly from the Pod Save America feed. Also, be sure to follow Pod Save America on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube for full episodes, bonus content and more. And before you hit that next button, you can help boost this episode by leaving us a review and by sharing it with friends and family. Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. Our producers are David Toledo, Saul Rubin and Emma Illich Frank. Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Reid Churlin is our executive editor and Adrienne Hill is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Kanter is our sound engineer with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Madeline Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt De Groat is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks to our Digital team Elijah Cohn, Hayley Jones, Ben Hethcote, Molly Lobel, Kiril Pel Aviv, Kenny Moffitt, and David Tols. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America. East.

[Tim Miller]

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[John Lovett]

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[Michael Fanone]

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[John Lovett]

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[Michael Fanone]

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[Tim Miller]

Away from helping it feel relieved.

[Michael Fanone]

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[Tim Miller]

For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex.