Is It Gay to Flip Texas?

Summary

Pod Save America: "Is It Gay to Flip Texas?" (May 29, 2026)

Episode Overview

This episode of Pod Save America delivers the hosts' irreverent, incisive political commentary on the latest headlines—ranging from international negotiations with Iran to Trump’s bizarre obsession with gilded monuments, the ongoing economic frustrations of Americans, Republicans doubling down on culture war attacks in Texas, and an energetic conversation with Mississippi Senate nominee Scott Colomb.

The hosts (Jon Lovett, Dan Pfeiffer, Jon Favreau) deploy their signature mix of gallows humor and granular political analysis as they dissect the week’s news, delivering sharp takes on Democratic strategy, Republican follies, and what really matters for voters this election cycle.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Iran Negotiations: Agreement to Keep Negotiating

[02:32–09:19]

• What Happened: U.S. and Iranian negotiators have agreed to a memorandum of understanding—the Strait of Hormuz will reopen for commercial shipping in exchange for the U.S. ending its blockade of Iranian ports. Other major issues (sanctions, Iran's uranium, etc.) pushed to future talks over the next 60 days, with a temporary ceasefire.
• Host Reaction: Universal skepticism. The hosts lambast the deal as an underwhelming rehash, with more fanfare (“siren emoji” journalism) than substance.
• Key Critiques:
  • The deal earns “absolutely nothing” for the U.S. or regional security.
  • The Iranian regime is “even more radical,” the nuclear issue unresolved, and the conflict killed American troops, cost billions, and destabilized oil markets.
  • The current uranium enrichment dilemma only exists because “Donald Trump pulled us out of the Iran deal” (Jon Lovett, 08:13).
• Quote:

  “We've been talking about this for so long that this has happened because it's so stupid.”
  — Dan Pfeiffer (08:01)

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2. Economic Fallout & Admin Messaging Woes

[09:19–14:44]

• Economic Picture: Inflation at a three-year high, GDP growth slowing, oil and fuel costs have soared. The White House’s economic spokesperson, Scott Besant, is roundly mocked for his “dismissively arrogant Wall Street” tone.
• Political Implications:
  • Economic anxiety is at historic highs.
  • The administration’s out-of-touch spin ("they're confident they need to drive their car to work" – Dan Pfeiffer, 11:27) fails to resonate.
• Notable Exchange:

  Jon Lovett: "Is inflation sticky because the PCE was at a three year high?"
  Dan Pfeiffer: "First person today, month over month..."
  (Discussion of “decimal points” and the detachment from average voters’ struggles)
  [10:39–11:14]

• Forecast: No quick fix—lower oil prices will take months to trickle down, and the economy’s negative perceptions will likely drag into the midterms.

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3. Trump’s Gilded Anniversary: Gold Statues, UFC, and the $250 Bill

[15:01–24:05]

• The Spectacle: Trump redirects tens of millions in funds to paint the reflecting pool “American flag blue,” gold-plate statues, and throw an 80th birthday/UFC event on the South Lawn.
• Cultural Impact:
  Hosts highlight the absurd juxtaposition (“it all combines… what are you doing?” – Jon Lovett, 24:05) of opulent pageantry with an economy in distress and discuss the increasingly “messianic” branding of Trump—his name and face on everything, the push for a $250 bill.
• Quote:

  "It's just like, the face is on everything. The name is on everything. There's fucking gold everywhere. It's a little fucking creepy."
  — Jon Lovett (18:28)

• Political Analysis:
  • Voters likely to see these stunts less as “scary dictator” behavior than “stupid” and “out of touch.”
  • Trump's public image has shifted from “strongman” to “deeply unpopular, doddering old man” post-Iran war (Dan Pfeiffer, 21:01).
• Memorable Moment:
  Trump explaining the reflecting pool: “It's 2,400 feet long… we're now covering it with the most beautiful blue, very thick. You think of it as a very sophisticated form of rubber. No leaks, no problems.” (17:46)

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4. Corruption: From Pentagon Loans to Don Jr.

[26:35–31:11]

• New Scandal: Peter Navarro used Pentagon influence to steer a $620 million loan to a North Carolina rare earths startup partly owned by Donald Trump Jr., ballooning its value from $200 million to $2 billion.
• Hosts' Take: Corruption—both spectacular (crypto schemes, jets) and “mundane” (contract handouts)—is rampant; the administration rewards insiders at Americans’ expense.
• Quote:

  “They are, they are putting their hands in the taxpayer pockets and stealing, because this is just taxpayer money that's been handed out and with no accountability or oversight whatsoever.”
  — Jon Lovett (30:19)

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5. Texas Senate Runoff Fallout & GOP Attacks on Talarico

[31:30–53:52]

• Ken Paxton’s Landslide: Trump-endorsed, deeply corrupt Paxton trounces John Cornyn in GOP runoff amid low turnout—interpreted by Trump as a bellwether for the fall.
• Republican Attack Playbook on Democrat James Talarico:
  • GOP fixates on Talarico’s masculinity: Nicknames like “Low T Talarico,” “Tofu Talarico,” and “Six gender Jimmy.”
  • Fox News peddles homophobic/transphobic stereotypes: "He looks like such a beta male."
  • Stephen Miller tweets Talarico will be “the first transgender Senate candidate.”
• Democratic Strategy:
  • Talarico’s response emphasizes family and “serving others” as true masculinity:

    “That’s what a man does. He serves those around him. He takes responsibility, and he does what’s right, even when no one is watching.”
    — James Talarico (40:11)

  • Hosts debate the efficacy of direct counter-messaging versus pivoting to issues that matter to voters (“make it about corruption, costs, and who’s really for Texas”).
• Path to Victory: Demographics in Texas are shifting; Talarico has a real shot in a favorable environment if he wins over college-educated whites and secures strong Latino margins.

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6. Interview: Mississippi Senate Nominee Scott Colomb

[68:48–90:57]

• Background: Colomb, a district attorney with deep roots in Mississippi, is seeking to break into the “impossible” political landscape as a Democrat in a state Trump won by 23 points in 2024.
• Electoral Theory:
  • Voters (including previously GOP-leaning ones) are dissatisfied with Trump-era economic fallout—especially tariffs and corruption.
  • Incumbent GOP Sen. Cindy Hyde-Smith is highly unpopular (“Cindy High Prices”), absent from the state, tainted by corruption allegations.
• Strategy:
  • Colomb rejects “celebrity candidate” approaches, instead emphasizing relentless ground campaigning, trust-building, and direct voter engagement.
  • Focus on local economic issues, anti-corruption, and drawing distinctions between his values and both Trumpism and Democratic missteps.
  • Emphasizes faith, family, and regular presence among voters to deflect GOP culture war attacks.
• Quote:

  “We're making it about centering the voters, not me… If I can raise enough money to counter her lies with the truth and tell the truth about her, we're gonna win. I'm telling you, we're gonna win.”
  — Scott Colomb (87:19)

• Connection to National Politics: Colomb makes the case that “rural America matters” and that national Democratic campaigns must put in work in states like Mississippi.

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7. Other Noteworthy Moments

Marco Rubio’s 2028 Momentum

[56:25–58:15]

• New polling shows Rubio overtaking J.D. Vance for the lead in the 2028 GOP nomination race—a shift attributed to Rubio simply “not being J.D. Vance.”

Post-mortem on 2024 Biden Debate and Lasting Distrust

[60:49–66:38]

• Dr. Jill Biden finally admits in interviews she feared Joe Biden was “having a stroke” during the disastrous 2024 debate—a reversal from her public statements at the time.
• Hosts express lingering anger at the Democratic establishment’s denial, seeing the episode as central to a persistent “breach of trust.”
• Quote:

  “That lack of trust hurts us with our own voters, hurts us with the other voters. We have to be thinking about… how to rebuild that trust.”
  — Dan Pfeiffer (62:24)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments, with Timestamps

• “If you want very little, and you get very little. Did you get everything you want?”
  — Dan Pfeiffer (05:42) [on Iran negotiations]
• “We've been talking about this for so long… It’s so stupid. The whole thing is so fucking stupid.”
  — Dan Pfeiffer (08:01)
• “They're confident they need to drive their car to work. That's what they're confident.”
  — Dan Pfeiffer (11:27) [economic analysis]
• “It’s just like… there's fucking gold everywhere. It's a little fucking creepy.”
  — Jon Lovett (18:28) [on Trump's celebration plans]
• Trump: "It's called American flag blue. That was the color we chose."
  — (17:46)
• “We're making it about centering the voters, not me… If I can raise enough money to counter her lies with the truth and tell the truth about her, we're gonna win. I'm telling you, we're gonna win.”
  — Scott Colomb (87:19)
• “That lack of trust hurts us with our own voters, hurts us with the other voters. We have to be thinking about way at all times about how to rebuild that trust.”
  — Dan Pfeiffer (62:24)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Start Time | Notes | |-------------------------------|-------------|-----------------------------------------------| | Iran Deal Analysis | 02:32 | Memorandum to continue negotiating | | Trump’s Gilded Capital | 15:01 | Gold statues, reflecting pool, $250 bill | | Economic Challenges | 09:19 | Inflation, admin messaging | | Trump Corruption—Pentagon Loan| 26:35 | Don Jr. scandal | | Texas Senate Runoff & Attacks | 31:30 | GOP “beta male” assault on Talarico | | Interview: Scott Colomb | 68:48 | Mississippi Senate candidate | | Rubio Outpaces Vance (2028) | 56:25 | Republican primary polling | | Biden Debate/Narrative Trust | 60:49 | Jill Biden’s account, party trust breakdown |

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Tone and Language

• Unfiltered, witty, deeply skeptical of right-wing politics and Democratic complacency alike.
• Rich with expletives, sarcasm (“the strait is slightly ajar”), and self-deprecating humor.
• Earnest in interviews (especially Colomb), sharply critical in analysis.

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Conclusion

This episode covers a wide swath of American political dysfunction, from foreign policy gimmicks, Trumpian pageantry, and the GOP’s toxic culture war to the strategic crossroads facing Democrats in red states. Through robust, dynamic debate and a spotlight on grassroots candidates, the Pod Save America hosts challenge their audience to look past the theater and focus on what—and who—actually matters.

Transcript

[Jon Favreau]

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[Jon Lovett]

America's 250th birthday calls for a history as sprawling and contradictory as the country itself. A History of the United States in A Hundred objects, produced by BBC Studios and 99% Invisible tells this story one object at a time, told over 100 episodes. Join Host Roman Mars as he reveals the fascinating story behind a collection of often overlooked objects, each of which sheds light on key moments in American history. From a gold coin found in a shipwreck that triggered financial panic to a tiny screw that kickstarted an industrial empire. Every week, one object will open the door into an extraordinary, often shocking story about who we've been, what we've built, and what we've allowed ourselves to forget. New episodes of A History of the United States and 100 objects are released every Tuesday. Find it 99% invisible wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

[Jon Lovett]

On today's show, we're gonna talk about the news that US And Iranian negotiators are on the verge of an agreement to keep negotiating. Also talk about Trump using our money to cover statues in gold and the push to put his face on a new $250bill. Exciting. Also, talk about Republicans losing their minds over James Talarico Rubio topping Vance for the first time in a 2028 poll.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Sorry. Great stuff.

[Jon Lovett]

Couldn't help myself. And Jill Biden finally admitting that her husband's debate performance was so bad she thought he was either having a stroke or on drugs. Deep breaths. Then could Democrats have a chance at a Senate seat in Mississippi? Democratic nominee Scott Colomb stops by the studio to make his case. Before we start, if you are not a subscriber to Crooked Media right now, what are you doing? You just listening to all these ads on POD Save America and POD Save the World and offline for nothing. You could be listening to ad free episodes. You could be supporting independent pro democracy media, which is kind of important to do right now if you've been looking at the news and seeing what Trump's been doing to the media landscape. And also we got cool subscriber only shows like Polar Coaster with Dan. Today we're gonna be talking about James Talarigo versus Ken Paxton. But if you really wanna nerd out on that race and hear all about the polls and Dan's take on this, you get to listen to Polar Coaster this week. All right, Dan. Another day, another siren emoji heralding a deal to end the war in Iran. That appears to be an agreement to keep talking about the nuclear program that ostensibly led to the war in the first place. That's where we are. Axios reports and other outlets have confirmed that pending final approval from Trump and the Ayatollah negotiators have agreed to, quote, a memorandum of understanding that says the Strait of Hormuz will reopen for, quote, unrestricted movement by commercial ships in exchange for ending the US Blockade of Iranian ports. And then everything else, including sanctions relief and Iran's uranium stockpile, will be the subject of negotiations that will take place over the next 60 days, during which time the ceasefire will be extended despite the tit for tat airstrikes between the US And Iran over the last few days. So not off to a great start there. Questions remain. Will Iran go back to enriching uranium? Will they get pallets of cash? Will they still control the strait? No one knows. But Trump addressed this last question during one of his marathon cabinet meetings on Wednesday.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Would you accept a short term deal

[Jon Lovett]

that allows Iran and Oman to control the strait?

[Donald Trump]

Nobody's going to control it. It's international waters. And Oman will behave just like everybody else. And we'll have to blow them up. We don't need oil. We don't need the strait. We don't need anything.

[Jon Lovett]

We don't need anything at all, which is why we're making the deal. And also we're going to control the strait. No one's going to control the strait. If Oman doesn't let ships through, we're going to blow them up. It all makes sense. Here's what a senior US Official told Axios about the deal. Quote, this is an agreement to get everybody to the table. We will work out the details in negotiations. That's not these negotiations that are leading to the deal that official is referring to. That is the future negotiations that will happen. Trump mouthpiece Scott Jennings responded to the story by dutifully tweeting, the US Appears to be getting everything we want. Is this everything we want, getting people to the table?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, it's an existential question, John. If you want very little and you get very little. Did you get everything you want? Just saying.

[Jon Lovett]

Very good. Very good.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I mean, it's kind of hard to believe that the thing that there's been so much breathless reporting on so many siren emojis over the last couple weeks was simply an agreement to keep talking. And I know it says they're going to open the Strait of Hormuz for unrestricted commercial traffic. Now, the problem here is there are still mines in unknown places all across

[Jon Lovett]

the Strait of Hormuz, some of which Iran was laying. Just this week. They were laying more mines. That's what started the airstrikes.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Again, I wouldn't say the strait is open to say the strait is slightly ajar because obviously some, some ships will get through. There are these ships that are stranded there that the US was pledging to escort, which we then abandoned that after like one six hour period. So. And is it better that the United States and Iran are not bombing each other? Yes. Is it better that maybe a couple ships will get through there? Yes. Is this the Treaty of fucking Versailles? No. This is a very minor. It's not even an agreement, as you said. It's an mou.

[Jon Lovett]

So cool, right? Like, of course it's great to cease hostilities. Cause no one wanted this fucking war in the first place. At least most people in America didn't want it and the rest of the world. But the questions here are simple, like, is Iran any further from developing a nuclear weapon than when this war started in February? No. We did nothing to push back the Iranian nuclear program that Trump hadn't done with the first round of strikes last year. So nothing has been achieved on that front. Is the regime any less radical? No. In fact, the regime is now more radical. Are the Iranian people any closer to freedom? No, they are not. In fact, they are gonna be more repressed by an even more radical regime. Is America any safer? No. Is the Middle east any more stable? No. And so what did all of that cost us? Well, 14American lives, tens of thousands of lives in the Middle east, at least $50 billion and counting of taxpayer dollars that have gone to fight this war, and an estimated $4 billion in higher fuel costs so far. So that's what we had to pay. Those are the costs that we had to bear for getting absolutely nothing, except maybe the straight back open, which it was at the beginning of the war.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And it's also not like Iran was on the cusp of a nuclear weapon when we started this process. The whole thing is so stupid. It. The whole thing is so fucking stupid. It's like it's mind boggling. We've been talking about this for so long that this has happened because it's so stupid.

[Jon Lovett]

The enriched uranium they are going to negotiate to figure out what to do with is only there because Donald Trump pulled us out of the Iran deal. So Iran went back to enriching uranium. All the uranium that's there has been enriched since the end of the Iran deal, which Trump pulled us out. And now there wouldn't even be more enriched uranium to be talking about if Trump hadn't gotten us out of the Iran deal.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The best case scenario here is that we spent billions and millions of dollars. We used up all of our missiles,

[Jon Lovett]

five years, five years to rebuild the munitions.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's the estimate which I'm sure will be a boon for a bunch of defense companies in which Jared Kushner and Donald Trump Jr. Have invested. The, you know, American troops have lost their lives. People all across the region have lost their lives and for nothing. We're just, We're. The best case scenario is we have a deal that is worse than the one Obama cut 12 years ago, or whatever it was, and we are very far from best case.

[Jon Lovett]

And now, like, do we think the Iranians really believe that if these negotiations over the next 60 days go poorly that Trump's going to start bombing them again? Like, what, right before the midterms? No, they know he's.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, actually, he might.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, maybe, Maybe. But I don't think. I don't feel like. I don't think this is a great play in terms of keeping any kind of leverage over the Iranians at this point. So they know they can close the strait whenever they want. So. And lay mines whenever they want. So that's what's happening there. I'm sure the deal could be announced any minute now. Who knows? We'll just look for more siren emojis from, from Axios and look for Scott Jennings to just sort of regurgitate whatever the administration tells him to because that's what he does. All right, so the White House press corps was briefed on the potential deal as well as the latest bad economic news by struggling soybean farmer Scott Besant, the administration's resident populist. Besant had to contend with news that inflation has now risen to its highest level in three years and the GDP grew even slower than previously estimated in the first quarter of this year. Oscar Goolsbee, the Chicago Federal Reserve president, told the Wall Street Journal that the US Economy is moving in a, quote, stagflationary direction, which would be the worst case scenario. Scott Bessant's response to all of this? Okay, Doomers, I believe we've already seen

[Dan Pfeiffer]

oil prices come down substantially. These are short term challenges that we

[Jon Lovett]

will get over and I think we'll move forward.

[Jon Favreau]

Is inflation sticky because the PCE was at a three year high?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, first person today, month over month

[Jon Lovett]

was point two, which was, we're looking

[Scott Colomb]

at decimal points, but the estimate was point three. Are you seeing signs that American households are dipping into their savings to pay for the higher costs of things like gas and groceries? And does data like that concern you right now?

[Jon Lovett]

Well, so lower, lower academic literature would tell you lower savings rate can mean one of two things. The kind of the doomer view that

[Dan Pfeiffer]

you took or that people have more confidence.

[Jon Lovett]

I'm no economist, but does the literature say when people are dipping into their savings during a global energy crisis that they are confident? They are doing so because they are confident about their finances.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

They're confident they need to drive their car to work. That's what they're confident.

[Jon Lovett]

So, you know, we've had a number of auditions since Caroline Levitt has been on parental leave. We had J.D. vance, we had Marco Rubio, and now Scott Besant took a turn at the podium and let me tell you, I don't know if, I don't know if he was the kind of soothing voice that the American people were looking for.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, there's just, I just don't know at this moment in time where somewhere between 2/3 and 3/4 of Americans are very mad about the economy, economic anxiety is at the highest level possible that you want a dismissively arrogant Wall street centimillionaire, I think he is, to be your spokesperson. You don't want someone who exudes money

[Jon Lovett]

coming out of their pores, as Tommy refers to him as a pissy cadaver.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes, it's fair enough.

[Jon Lovett]

Kind of looks like that. I think the question now is if this deal is signed today, would it actually help get inflation and growth moving in the right direction again before the midterms?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It would lower oil prices, which will eventually, at some point in time, lower gas prices because oils, because oil futures will come down, but we're not going to see anywhere near the sort of traffic going through the strait that we had before for six months at the earliest and probably longer. And the true economic damage is done here. The growth has been stunted. Inflation is up. It'll take a while for all of that to come down. The Fed is even thinking about possibly raising interest rates again because of the PCE numbers that Besset mentioned. But let's just put aside the economics. Where I feel deeply uncomfortable talking about them. Focus on the politics. Where I am mildly more comfortable is, look, people's opinions about this economy are pretty set in stone. People's opinions about Donald Trump's handling this economy are pretty set in stone. People are gonna start voting in a couple months. And even if things do get a little bit better, which seems highly unlikely, we know from years and years of data that people's impression of the economy lags the reality by months. And so even if things got a little bit better, it's unlikely to be help Republicans this fall.

[Jon Lovett]

A CNN business reporter they're business reporter David Goldman was asked about, like, when we might see $3 gas again. Guess which year? He said, for $3 gas again, it's

[Dan Pfeiffer]

not going to be 2026, is it, John?

[Jon Lovett]

2032,

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I would say. I was going to guess 2030 just because, by the way, you asked that question, it was going to be far away. But that's even further than I thought.

[Jon Lovett]

That's what your reaction was. Similar to CNN's Pam Brown, who also was like, what did you just say? He's like, yeah, well, by the time. He's like, if you just look at the futures, this is what the futures market say right now because it would have to be down to like, I think around $70. Oil would have to be $70 a gallon and up $70 a barrel. And, you know, it's like down to hovering around 100 now. So it's not at what it was at with like 120, but to get from there to 70. Yeah, it takes the straight being fully open for quite a while.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The other thing about the strait is it's not just boats moving through the strait. It's that Gulf countries ceased production because they could not get oil through the strait. And so they have to restart production. And that takes time. And that is on top of the facilities that were damaged from the Iranian missiles as part of the war that Trump started.

[Jon Lovett]

One area of the economy that's undeniably booming, Construction firms that Trump has contracted to make the nation's capital look like one of his failed casinos. The New York Times reports that the no bid contractor hired to paint the reflecting pool a tackier blue is quote, being paid an inflated and excessive profit margin. You don't say. The Times also reports that the administration has funneled over $60 million worth of national park admissions fees toward repairing the pool and some of DC's fountains. There's also apparently a $5 million contract to coat a bunch of equestrian statues by the Lincoln Memorial in gold. What? This is all ahead of America's 250th birthday celebration, which Trump is merging with his own. The president will ring in the Big eight zero with a UFC fight on the South Lawn. And they've just started to build the arena, which looks like a Roman Colosseum that's being sponsored by Axe Body Spray. That's what it looks like. It's a real eyesore. The White House has also announced a list of musical artists who will allegedly perform for this summer's festivities, like Flo Rida, Vanilla Ice, cnc, Music Factory, Milli Vanilli and Young mc. I say allegedly because already Milli Vanilli and Young MC have said they're actually not performing. This just in. The Commodores also said, absolutely not. They were on the list as well. So that list is dwindling.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Dan, did you follow how the Young MC and Milli Vanilli things played out? Young mc, I think, did not realize what he was signing up for, so he pulled himself out. Milli Vanilli seems to claim based on a very bizarrely worded statement from the quote unquote, real Milli Vanilli that the Milli Vanilli that was booked was a Milli Vanilli cover band. Now, if you know, if you know

[Jon Lovett]

your cover band of a cover band. Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Milli Vanilli is also a cover band of Milli Vanilli. So it's Russian nesting dolls with COVID bands Here.

[Jon Lovett]

Didn't one of them die? I think we only. I don't know if we have Milli or.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You think it's only Millie?

[Jon Lovett]

Millie or Vanilli dead? Let's see. Okay. I don't know which is which, but one half of the RB dance duo Milli Vanilli, Rob Pilatus is dead. The other half of the duo, Fab Morven, is alive. That's what Wikipedia tells me.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Okay, well, either way. Either way, no, Vigili will not be performing as we come in for many reasons.

[Jon Lovett]

For many reasons.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

If he actually could get the original Millifanili performed, that would be impressive.

[Jon Lovett]

Now, of course, while all this is going on, you know, Trump can't be paying attention to all this. He's focused on what's really important. Let's listen.

[Donald Trump]

You have one in particular, a very long lake. We call it a reflecting lake between Lincoln and Washington. You have the longest, like, 2,400ft long. That's longer than the tallest building in the world, if you set it on the side. And we're now covering it with the most beautiful blue, very thick. You think of it as a very sophisticated form of rubber. No leaks, no problems. And it's beautiful. It's called American flag blue. That was the color we chose.

[Jon Lovett]

Thick rubber doesn't leak. That's the blue. That's the blue that we're going for here. Just. Just covering the reflecting lake, calling it the Reflecting lake.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Now, it's also what Trump is looking for in his personal brand of Depends.

[Scott Colomb]

But

[Jon Lovett]

there you go. There you go. So there's also this story today that Trump is pressuring treasury officials, the people who print the money in treasury, to put his face on a special $250bill in honor of America's 250th. And in honor of Trump, of course. And this made me wonder, like, okay, the corruption, huge political problem. The biggest political problem, I'm sure. Obviously, all of this also looks extremely out of touch. While the economy is in the shitter, do you think people also might feel just a bit uneasy about Trump's messianic rebrand of America here? I mean, it's just like, the face is on everything. The name is on everything. There's fucking gold everywhere. It's a little fucking creepy.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Okay, so I want to get to that question, but can we dig in on the $250 bill for a second?

[Jon Lovett]

Yes.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

So Bessant was asked about this at the briefing, and he pointed out that there is a law that says that you cannot Put a living person on money and that there's a bill before

[Jon Lovett]

it was passed in like the 1800s and it was after, after George Washington, our first president, refused to put his face on, on currency while he was alive.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And so there's a bill before the House and the Senate right now that would lift that restriction for the purposes of allowing Besson to put Trump's face on the money. And my message to, I'm gonna speak directly to Mike Johnson, John Thune and frankly every congressional Republican immediately. If you do not immediately go to the Capitol right now and vote on that bill to put Donald Trump's face on our money, then you are traitors to the MAGA cause you are weak woke liberals. You have to do this. Vote for it right now. I can think of nothing no better use of your time.

[Jon Lovett]

I got a better idea, Dan. Remember they all went home before the Memorial Day break because they couldn't come to an agreement on the budget bill that was supposed to fund ICE and all the other bullshit in there, like the $1.8 billion slush fund for January 6 rioters. Democrats have the ability to offer amendments in a vote a rama process. So if I was Chuck Schumer or a Senate Democrat, I might offer an amendment about this. And let's put everyone on the record and see what they think, see what all the Republicans think about the Donald Trump's face on the $250bill.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I like that too. That's a great idea. You have really grown aged into a legislative strategist late in life. So that's great. All right, let's get to the meat of your question.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Basically, do I think voters are creeped out and maybe a little scared by Trump basically cosplaying Kim Jong Un, Vladimir Putin, pick your tin pot dictator. Look, I think the biggest political problem here is that Trump is focused on dumb self serving shit instead of lowering people's costs. That is the fundamental thing. You add a side of pretty blatant corruption to it. That's pretty bad. I think people see the, you know, Trump putting his name on everything, his face and everything. And I think maybe last year they would have seen that as scary. I think this year they think it's stupid because the Trump of 2026 and now the Trump of 2025. 2025, he was single handedly destroying federal agencies, sending mass agents everywhere. He was astride the world. He was bizarrely popular. And now he is a deeply unpopular, doddering old man who can't stay awake in meetings. He is losing wars to Iran. He just looks weak. He seems different. He just seems smaller now. And you see that in the polling where pluralities of people and large majorities of independents no longer describe him as strong. They see him as weak and indecisive. And I think so, I think. Should people be creeped out by it? Absolutely. I think the approach is probably not fear, it's derision.

[Jon Lovett]

I was gonna say.

[Jon Favreau]

I don't.

[Jon Lovett]

I probably. I probably articulated it wrong. I don't think it's fear, like, oh, no. Scary dictator kind of thing. When I say uneasy, I feel like people look at it. And first of all, I think part of this is me when the ballroom thing first happened, not thinking that the ballroom was gonna be a big deal and then realizing that the imagery of the East Wing being demolished was more powerful to people than I had imagined, and not just from a corruption angle. Because at that point it was just, we're going to knock down the East Wing and I'm going to build a ballroom. Right. And it wasn't just like, oh, he's not focusing because we didn't have the war then. Right. But it was still like, what are you doing? I think that people have not. There's going to be a lot of focus and a lot of attention on Washington D.C. over the next couple months because it's America's 250th anniversary birthday, and there's gonna be a lot of activities in D.C. and so those images are gonna be broadcast and everywhere. And just, like, people tuning in to what's happening in D.C. with, like, Trump's face on the Justice Department and his name on everything and the gold everywhere. I kind of just think it's a small thing, but I think it's just sort of adds to the, like, what the fuck is happening right now? Like, it doesn't make you feel. It doesn't make you feel good about America at a time where people, most people will wanna feel somewhat patriotic or happy about America's 250th birthday making it all about Donald Trump. I do think, like, cuts to the core of what. Like, it bothers people in a. Like a, fuck, this is not our country. What is this kind of way?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, I think that's right. I think it's also just. People are gonna see it and be like, why is this such a high priority?

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. Like, yeah, what? Yeah. And it all combines. I think it's like, what are you. What are you doing?

[Jon Favreau]

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[Jon Lovett]

There's just a bit more corruption to discuss before we move on. This is, this is just sort of your standard issue corruption. According to ProPublica, Trump adviser and family friend Peter Navarro. Remember Peter Navarro, he did all the tariffs that everyone's enjoying so much.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And jail time.

[Jon Lovett]

He did jail time, jail time and tariffs, yeah. So it turns out he pulled some strings last year to funnel a $620 million Pentagon loan to a North Carolina startup owned in part by Donald Trump Jr. What do you think as an early, early wedding present?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Like, we talk all the time about the crypto schemes and the Qatari jets and all the other like very extravagant and extraordinary corruption, but there really is just a staggering amount of, as you said, mundane corruption, just like funneling contracts to your friends so that they can make money off tax off the taxpayers. And Trump is probably, although not definitely, going to pardon his sons before he leaves. Maybe Peter Navarro will cross the threshold of people who will get pardoned, you know, because he did serve time for Trump for a while and he already has a pardon, I believe, or at least a commutation. But the people who actually facilitated this, people who work in the Pentagon, people who work for Peter Navarro, they're not getting pardons and they're probably going to see the inside the jail cell because of it. And that is happening across the board. And like there are a lot of people who think who are serving their MAGA lords, they're doing what they're told and they are going, Trump's going to pardon his close friends and his closest aides and the rest of those people are going to be under tremendous legal jeopardy because of what they're doing.

[Jon Lovett]

I realize it's easy to become numb to all the stories about corruption and all the numbers, but what happened here is this is a pretty clear cut one. They set up this office in the Pentagon called the Office of Strategic Capital. And this was set up in the, in the Biden administration. And the idea was the government wants to give out some loans to companies, startup companies that are involved in developing rare earth minerals, because we don't want to depend on China for that. We want to depend on the US and so this is good. It's good for the government to sort of help these startups that are doing this. It was a. They had $1 billion lending authority under Biden. Donald Trump comes in and they, they, they increase it from 1 billion to $200 billion. So now it's $200 billion that the government is handing out to these companies. And in the Biden administration, there's a process. You bid for this. If you're one of these companies, you apply. There's a rigorous process. They decide to take you or not. They reject some companies. They just. Obviously we want to give loans to the best possible companies because it's taxpayer dollars that we are giving to these companies. So we want to make sure they're the best ones. Except one company, Vulcan, skirted that entire process and in fact didn't even apply the White House. Peter Navarro calls the Defense Department and was like, you got to give the money to Vulcan. You just got to give the money to Vulcan. And that is the company, this small company in North Carolina that Don Jr. Had just invested in just a couple months before this. And once it got the money, once it got the huge contract, the valuation of the company went from 200 million to $2 billion, a 900% increase. That is how much money Don fucking Junior made because his really good friend Peter Navarro, the two of them are very tight, called up the fucking Pentagon and said, make this happen for Don Jr's company.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

There's so much like this. There is. You know, just heard the other day that they about, you know, Trump had a big investment and made investment in Dell right before a big announcement where Dell was going to get a government contract. Same thing with Robin Hood. Just, it's across the board, just everyone is robbing the treasury with two hands at all times.

[Jon Lovett]

I was going to say it's not. And it's not just like they're using their office or they're abusing their office. And just the fact that they have the office to make money, no, no, no. They're like stealing from you. They are, they are putting their hands in the taxpayer pockets and stealing because this is just taxpayer money that's been handing out and with no accountability or oversight whatsoever. Is this company going to succeed? Is it a good company? We don't know. Don Jr. Owns some of it. That's all we need to know. Money out the door. Taxpayer dollars.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It was only a year ago that the government told us that we cannot afford to keep rural hospitals open.

[Jon Favreau]

Right?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, but we can. We can give a favorable contract with a huge profit margin. People who put the weird rubbery paint on the, on the pool. We can give contracts to Don Jr. S company. We can encase Washington D.C. based horse statues in gold.

[Jon Lovett]

Where's Elon? Where are the Doge Bros? Where's the all in pod Bros with all the fucking. Come on, guys.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Probably investors in the Donald Trump and the Trump Jr. Company.

[Jon Lovett]

Lots of waste and fraud right here. You guys are saying it's all kinds of waste in the government. You've been pretty quiet about this. Fucking losers. All right, the moment from Trump's cabinet meeting that actually got the most airtime wasn't the Iran stuff or the thick rubbery coating. It was this.

[Donald Trump]

I don't care about the midterms. Look what happened last night. That was the prelude to the midterms.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, man, we noticed. We noticed. You don't care about the midterms. It's coming through, Coming through loud and clear. He was referring, of course, to the Texas Senate runoff where Ken Paxton, the deeply corrupt beneficiary of a last minute Trump endorsement, absolutely crushed incumbent Senator John cornyn by almost 30 points. When Trump said, look what happened last night, what do you think he thinks Tuesday night demonstrated about the midterms?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

He's a simple minded fellow, Jon, and I think he very simple mindedly looked and saw that a candidate he supported want a race. And then he then presumes that candidates that he support will win similar races in the fall. Now, what Trump is too simple minded to understand is that among the people who voted in that primary in Texas, I imagine Trump had a 85 to 95% approval rating. These are Texas primary voters. When people go to the polls in the fall, Trump will have somewhere between a, I don't know, 42 and 32% approval rating, depending on the district and the state, switching to, like a slightly different environment for his candidates. Also, I think I just want to stipulate this. Ken Paxton was winning this primary. Whether Donald Trump endorsed him or not, he may have won by more, but there were reports in private that private polling had Paxton up 10 points before Trump's endorsement. We knew from the runoff that even though Cornyn got the plurality of votes, there was a strong majority. When you added up Wesley Hunt and Ken Paxton votes, there was a strong majority of Texans who did not want John Cornyn. And when incumbents go to runoffs, they almost always lose because the reason they were, they're in a runoff is there's 50% of people who looked at that incumbent they knew and said, give me someone else.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I was going to say also the turnout was so much lower. Did you see some of the estimates on turnout? Like it looks like between the first race and the runoff? Paxton got about 7,000 more votes in the runoff and Cornyn lost about 400,000 votes between the first race and the runoff. So it seems like a ton of Cornyn's voters just stayed home and decided not to vote. And then the most engaged, craziest MAGA voters turned out for Ken Paxton.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. Which was always sort of the fear. And it's not like this was the only race on the ballot. You also, you had congressional runoffs and you had a very important Attorney General runoff as well.

[Jon Lovett]

So I guess we could talk. Let's talk about how they're going after James Talarico, who's now the Democratic nominee in that race, and then we can sort of talk about the race ahead from now until November. It does seem like MAGA world is a bit more nervous about Talarico than they're letting on, as evidenced by their subtle new strategy of questioning James Talarico's masculinity. It's very subtle. I don't know if you can figure it out. Paxton used his victory speech to call Talarico low T Talarico, Tofu Talarico and six gender Jimmy. Stephen Miller tweeted that Talarico will make history as the first transgender Senate candidate. And here's the gang from Fox as the Five on Wednesday. This baby lotion soft child. He does. He looks prepubescent.

[Jon Favreau]

The major factor in this race, Greg, is whether Talafrico's vegan. You say you have a girlfriend.

[Jon Lovett]

Why don't you name her?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Are they gonna have a coming out

[Jon Lovett]

party or is she still gonna stay the secret girlfriend?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And is this totally not fake girlfriend also a vegan?

[Jon Lovett]

He looks like such a beta male. He was. He was beta.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

O' Rourke was his big brother in

[Jon Lovett]

the after school program. They'll say. They'll say. But he's a seminarian.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

How dare you not?

[Jon Lovett]

He put the semen in seminarian. What do you think they're trying to tell us?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

They dislike his policy agenda.

[Jon Lovett]

I get it. I get the line of attack. And there is a universe where you can execute that line of attack. Maybe in a way that's Somewhat effective. Feels like if you're already calling him a gay pedophile in May, not a lot of Runway left. Where are you going? Where are you going to be in October?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I am curious about what is driving this attack. Like, is it in the data or are they just echoing the thing that Trump said on Air Force One two weeks ago?

[Jon Lovett]

I think some of it is like instinct, right? Like they have, okay, the clips of James Talarico that have been, you know, all over the Internet and right wing media are something, something vegan. He's not a vegan. Which clearly these people just actually don't know that he's not a vegan. And they think now he says he eats meat because he's like got caught or something. But he was never saying he was a vegan. That was not a clip. The clip of him saying that, you know, technically there's six sexes because of chromosome abnormalities with a small fraction of people, which, like, great. And like a couple other clips like that. And he looks young, right? And so they're like, yeah, he looks. It's like their go to is he's a beta male. But they can't just say that because there is an element of that.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's exactly what they said.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, they can't just say that and like leave it at that because there's an element of, oh, shit, we just nominated Ken Paxton and we could lose. So we've got to take everything to 100.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. So I think a couple things here. One, obviously their strategy, their only way to win is to nuke Telerika. This is going to be their same strategy with Graham Platner. It's going to be the same strategy with whoever wins in Michigan. Particularly as Abdul Al said, this is their approach. It's the only thing they have. This is the weak, woke and too liberal attack that we talked about a few weeks ago. There are actually two separate things embedded in what they're doing here. There is James Tallarico is a low T, possibly gay beta male. He's not man enough for the Senate, which is really quite a thing to say. And then there is James Talarico is a liberal elitist extremist who's out of touch with Texas values. That is the God is non binary. That is the false attack. He's a vegan. And those are two separate things. Obviously the second one pulls. Well, we know that that is an advantageous diagram. I'm not sure the he's a beta male is a particularly effective attack.

[Jon Lovett]

I don't know that they're I guess I would say I don't know that they're entirely separate because the typical out of touch liberal who is a male is obviously a low t beta male like we are. We are also low t beta males because we are libs on the coast and we're probably vegan and we probably have pronouns in our bio.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You know, that's a pretty deep.

[Jon Lovett]

It's a very online take.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's a very online take. The other one is a, it's a deeply dishonest because it takes a lot of his quotes out of context and edits them, some of them quite unfairly. But I think that there is, I'm just not. In presidential politics, strength and toughness matters a lot. Right. How you define strength and toughness is very important. You can define it in ways that are much better than sort of like brute force strength that Trump sort of has tried to swagger his way into the Oval Office. It matters much less in congressional and Senate races. No one sees you as being tasked with staring down the Iranians or taking out Al Qaeda or stopping crime in the streets or whatever else people associate probably incorrectly with toughness. And so I think that Trump has sort of sent them on this path and it is red meat for the Fox base. And so it's one thing of like Jesse Watters and the yahoos on the five do it. It was interesting to me that it was such a big part of Paxton's victory speech. I just took note of that.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, I mean he is a politician who if not successful, will end up being a pundit on Fox pretty easily.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

So the line, his speech was interesting because he did very Trump esque in that he was very excited and enjoying doing the Talarico attacks and responding to the crowd. And then he was reading with no emotion lines about lowering people's costs.

[Jon Lovett]

Not where his passion lies. His passion lies, of course, in theft. He likes stealing from people.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

Sometimes quite literally. He stole someone's pen. So like a thousand dollar pen someone left lying around. There's like video of him just stealing

[Dan Pfeiffer]

it, which is very friends and neighbors.

[Jon Lovett]

So Talarico's out there responding to the beta male line of attack. Here he is at a rally on Wednesday in Houston. This is his first stop on a statewide tour and his first appearance since Paxton won the runoff. In a time when there's so much debate about what it means to be a man. My dad showed me every Saturday morning he would mow our lawn. And then without telling anyone, without anyone asking him, he would go next door and mow our neighbor's lawn. She was elderly. She was a widow. He never talked about it. He just did it because that's what a man does. He serves those around him. He takes responsibility, and he does what's right, even when no one is watching. So in addition to that, he also did a sit down with CBS with Ed o'. Keefe. And, you know, he said that some of his past remarks were cringy and that he would say them differently as well. He's been, you know, there's been plenty of photos that the campaign's been pushing around of him eating barbecue because he's said he's eaten barbecue forever. So, you know, it's all of a piece. But if you were consulting on the campaign, how would you advise him to push back on this? And I think more importantly, like, how much time and energy would you be spending on it if you were on the campaign?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Before we do that, I just do want to stipulate that Team Southern Rico has a very, very real chance of winning this race.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, well, we should talk about that, for sure.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I get why everyone is skeptical of Texas. We have been burned so many times, but this is our best chance in a generation to win statewide office in Texas. We have not won a Senate race in Texas since 1988. We've not won statewide office of consequence in this century. And obviously, the closest that a Democrat has come was Beto O' Rourke losing by 2.6% to Ted Cruz in 2018. But this is a different world. 2018 was a good environment for Democrats. 2026 is a great environment for Democrats. As we sit here today, at least this is a hard thing for me to say, but Ted Cruz is much more likable than and has higher, much higher, much more likely and more popular than Ken Paxton. This blew me away. In September of 2018, Ted Cruz had a favorability rating that was 9 points above water. Yes. Ken Paxton, depending on your poll, is 5, 7, 10 points below water and will never be above water. That is just. He will never see the surface. The most important thing here is that there is a demographic pincer movement happening in Texas in this moment. So in 2016, Hillary Clinton did better in Texas than almost any other state. It's a state where she actually had the largest improvement over Barack Obama in 2012. It's one of the very few states and maybe the only state where she did better than Obama did in 2012. And the reason that happened is she blew the doors off Latino voters and Trump won by A decent margin because white voters of all stripes, college educated and working class voted for him. And mess. What has changed since 2016 is those college educated white voters, of which there are a ton in Texas, particularly in the cities and suburbs around those big cities, have moved dramatically in the Democratic direction. And then starting in 2020, Latino voters moved towards Trump. And Trump won Latino voters by 10 points in Texas, according to the exit polls. What has changed since then is that those college educated white voters have stayed exactly where they were before and maybe even more fired up now than they were back in 2024. And Latino voters have moved dramatically away from Trump. Trump's approval rating among Latinos nationally is minus 50 in the generic Unidos. That's in the New York Times poll, in the Unidos US Poll of battleground districts around the country. They looked at the battleground districts. This is a poll of Latinos battleground districts in the Southwest, which is mostly, but not entirely Texas. Democrats are winning the generic ballot by 38 points. And so if James Hellarico, if he can get Kamala Harris, Joe Biden style numbers with college educated white voters and something like Hillary Clinton's 2016 Latino numbers, he wins that race and he wins it by a couple points.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I saw that. I saw Nate Cohn said something similar and then also said that even if you take the latest Times poll, the national poll, and you match the defer and you match the shifts with the different demographic groups in Texas, if you like make it, then you, then it would tilt blue Texas.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

Even before you knew the candidates.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Right. He has to navigate what we all talked about to get there. But this, like, this is not the previous discussion of Texas. It's not like a lot of other red states where we talk about, we're like, we got this popular candidate, maybe they can just persuade a bunch of these voters and maybe we'll get there. But there's no real path you can. The math tells you that this state is in play if Talarico can achieve what, what should be achievable Democratic numbers. So that's that.

[Jon Lovett]

Okay, now I was going to say. Yeah, now that's a good setup for what I think the challenge the Talarico faces is I've been thinking about sort of Graham Platter in Maine and this, you know, I think there's been no bigger gap between what voters on the ground think of a candidate and what the Internet conversation about that candidate is than Platner. And I. The reason I feel more confident about Platner is Pretty much, because the size of Maine. And I think that, like, Graham Platner may meet most of the voters he needs to meet in Maine. And obviously James Alarico is not gonna do that in Texas, because no one can do that in Texas, because big fucking state. And so he does need to make some decisions on, like, how to puncture the Internet caricature of him that a lot of voters are gonna come in contact with. And also through television ads and other ads from the Paxton campaign, from the Republicans, and figure out, you know, like, where to spend his time, what to say, what his ad strategy is and your thoughts on all that.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

So my thoughts are. I guess the way to think about this is the strategy they're running against Telarico is the strategy they ran against Kamala Harris in 2024. The goal is to define him before he can divide himself. Tellarico, very well known among Democrats and very politically engaged people, to the extent that other people even know who he is, they kind of vaguely have this sense that he is like a Democrat who talks about his faith a lot, maybe is as much as they know and, you know, the general vibes that he's not a typical Democrat. And so that's a vacuum that the right is trying to fill before Tall can fill himself. So what are the mistakes that Kamala Harris made that led her to be defined? The first is when the attacks came. Like, the infamous they them ad. She never took them head on, like. And we can debate the ad strategy around it. We know all the discussion from all the people who work there about which ad sets are good in which ads tested bad. But siloing that conversation in ads is stupid. She wasn't like, she was out talking to voters to try to disabuse them of that notion. Like, she didn't never took that attack on. So you got to take these attack ons. I find both, even though I'm less concerned about the masculinity attack than perhaps you or others may be, the fact that he took it on the first day shows the right instincts. The fact that he sat down for the interview with Ed o' Keefe to take tough questions about the things he said shows the right instincts. You have to take them on, because if you don't, then voters are just going to assume that they're true because people are naturally cynical. And the second thing is, you cannot allow there to be a vacuum. You have to be everywhere, all the time, all at once. You have to be omnipresent in the media, on social media. You have to be like, you know, it's always the worst comparison. You have to be like Mamdani. Like there should be no interview turned down, no podcast you should turn down. You should visit every county in Texas or whatever is logically feasible. Remember, it took Beto like two years to do that, so maybe that's impossible. But do be everywhere so that people see you. Because when people see James Talarico, they like him. He is like, he has real appeal with this segment of Cornet. People who would, who would have voted for John Cornyn over a Democrat, but will might vote for a Democrat over Ken Paxton. And so you got, but you got to be in front of them and you got to do be. There is no, you cannot waste one minute. Every single minute of every single day has to be out there communicating. And I think he, he ran his primary campaign like that. He's run his sort of career like that. So I think that that's what they're gonna do. But like, if you think you're being aggressive, you're probably not being. You should be more aggressive than that and keep going.

[Jon Lovett]

I have seen a lot of right wing folks who are quite religious online make the argument that, you know, the idea that James Talarico's faith and penchant to talk openly about his faith and you know, being, you know, being a seminarian is the idea that that's going to help him is like liberals idea of what a person of faith is. And like liberals have no idea because the fact that he is using passages from the Bible to sort of talk about his progressive values is like blasphemy to some on the right, blah, blah. And I think that they have that wrong because like, I don't think that James Talarico's view of his faith and the way he talks about his faith is going to win over evangelical Christians that were going to vote for Ken Paxton and voted for Donald Trump three times anyway. I don't think that's the point. In fact, I don't even think it's, oh, this guy preaches and his Christian faith is what's gonna do it for me. I think the fact that he speaks from, he speaks in the language of morality is refreshing to people who don't necessarily vote all the time or sometimes switch between the parties. It's all like the people in the middle that when you hear someone, and especially a Democrat talking about how their faith has moved them and how it sort of animates their values and their decisions about politics, like, I don't think at the very least, I don't think it hurts. I don't think it pushes people away. But I think for some people they're like, okay, well this guy has a moral grounding. And even people who aren't religious necessarily or don't share his Christian faith may be like, okay, this guy believes in what he's saying. It's like it gives him an authenticity that again, when you meet him, you realize that that's what it is. He really genuinely believes this and it animates him and it drives him. And I think that that is worth a lot in politics today.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

These things these right wing people are saying are so fucking stupid. Because if a literal meaning of the scripture was why these people voted the way they vote, these evangelical Christians voted the way they voted, they wouldn't have voted for Donald Trump. I'm going to take an even hackier view than you. I agree with you. Obviously the way he talks about from this, he talks about things that from a moral framework is refreshing. The fact that he talks about his faith is a massive, it's authentic to him, which is incredibly important, but it's also a massive signifier that he is different than your typical Democrat. And if he wants to win in Texas, he has to be different than a typical Democrat. That's why it's important. It is not because he's going to get into a theological debate with a three time Trump voting evangelical minister and persuade them to his side. It's that he can communicate with people. He can relate to people whose faith is important to them or their faith community is important to them because that is a touchstone to begin a larger conversation about where Texas goes, where the country goes, like it is a way in with a group of voters. It is not. The fact of his faith is not delivering votes among other people of faith. It's just one way in which he can connect to people.

[Jon Lovett]

I also think there's a way in which Tall Rico has already started framing the race and he did this in a video right after Ken Paxton won where he is trying to make this about him and everyone else as outsiders trying to upend a corrupt establishment. And it's about the system, right? And so he attacks Ken Paxton as corrupt and he calls him the most corrupt politician in America. But he said he's part of a corrupt system that James Tallarico wants to change because it is the, and you know, this is, Ossoff said the same, says the same thing. This is the reason that you can't afford anything because these People are stealing your money and making it about voters and about why Ken Paxton would be bad for voters because they are feeling like they can't afford anything. And he's gonna make it worse because he's a thief, just like Donald Trump, I think is a very potent message. I have a greater worry that if it's about, you know, beta male, low T Talarico versus, you know, criminal adulterer Ken Paxton, and it's like a character versus character race that's not one that he's gonna have as much of a chance to win as if he makes it about, you know, outside versus, you know, outsiders versus the system change versus the status quo. He's just gotta make it bigger than about him and Paxton. And I do think that. And it's not just for Talarico, but it's for all Democrats because Paxton gives you so many is a target rich environment because he gives you so much to talk about because he has such a bad record and he's corrupt, stuff like that. It is very easy to turn this into a race about what a bad person Ken Paxton is. And I think it would be a mistake to just, just talk about Ken Paxton as a bad person. You've got to talk about how Ken Paxton has fucked over the people of Texas when he was Attorney General and how he would continue to do so in the Senate. Like, that is where the. That is where you win it, I think.

[Jon Favreau]

Pod Save America is brought to you by blinds.com There's a version of your home you haven't lived in yet. Where the light behaves, where the rooms feel finished, where you sleep until you decide to wake up. Oh, man, isn't it nice to sleep? So you decide to wake up. You wake up, you're like, did I just do that? Is this another life? Blinds.com has spent 30 years making it easy to find the perfect fit. With over 25 million windows covered in 50,000 five star reviews, you can feel confident that you're in good hands. You can go full diy. You can bring in a licensed vetted pro to handle the measure and install, or you can land somewhere in between. You're in control. Need help picking the right style? You can book a consultation. It's free with one of Blinds.com's award winning design experts. They'll even ship samples to your door fast and free. Choose from a huge variety of style options at prices that fit any budget. Everything is backed by the blinds.com 100% satisfaction guarantee. [e-mail], the only thing they treat better than windows. It's. You love blinds.com. we have blinds.com in our office. We've been, you know, we had no shades in our office for a long time.

[Jon Lovett]

And we have.

[Jon Favreau]

We like our office. It's nice, gets a lot of light, but sometimes you get hot. Sometimes there'd be a lot of sun that would be in our eyes when we're at our computers reading about the News. And then blinds.com came in. We stepped out of our office for like an hour. Come back. Boom. Incredible blinds. Incredible blinds. Right now, blinds.com is giving our listeners an exclusive $50 off. When you spend $500 or more, just use code crooked at checkout. Limited time off. Rules and Restrictions apply. See blinds.com for details. Pod Save America is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. One of the big things we love about our team here at Qriket is the wide range of skills and disciplines that coalesce around our shared values and commitment to the work we do every day. That's one of the things we love the most. Also, Peter and I talk about nerdy stuff all the time. We have a great team here at Crooked and you want people that have the skills and experience, but you also want people that, that, that care about what they do and are passionate about the job. You can't get that often from a resume unless you post your job on ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter's powerful matching technology finds quality candidates quickly. And ZipRecruiter has a new feature that shows you the most interested qualified candidates first so you can meet the right people faster. Candidates can tell you in their own words why they're interested in your job. No wonder ZipRecruiter is the number one rated hiring site based on G2. We've used ZipRecruiter to hire here at Cricket. It's always been a great help. Hiring is one of the hardest things you have to do. It's so important. The whole thing depends on finding the right people. And with ZipRecruiter, it makes it easier find candidates who really want your job on ZipRecruiter. Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter to get a quality candidate within the first day. Try it for free at ZipRecruiter.com crooked that's ZipRecruiter.com crooked meet your match on ZipRecruiter.

[Jon Lovett]

All right, couple last things to cover. Thursday was Marco Rubio's birthday and his best present came from Emerson, which has a new 2028 showing. He's effectively erased J.D. vance's lead as a top contender for the 2028 Republican nomination. In August, he was at 9% and Vance was at 52% in this latest poll. Rubio's at 35 and Vance is at 36. One poll, Emerson Poll. Obviously, grain of salt. Does seem like there's, there's some mark momentum here. Our friend Sarah Longwell sees it in the focus groups, too. A couple different places. What's, what's going on here?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think Marco Rubio's greatest asset right now is that he's not J.D. vance. I mean, that's. That. I think that's it. I don't think he has done anything in particular that people love. It's not like he's just been crushing the job of the State Department. It's not like his stewardship of the Iran war is making people happy. It's not like people are deeply dialed into his role as the overseer of the Viceroy of Venezuela. I just think he is a Republican who might seem slightly more competent and normal than your average Trump cabinet member and is not as awkward and off putting as J.D. vance.

[Jon Lovett]

You see that fun Daily Mail story? It has. Sources say that Vance is considering abandoning his 2028 bid and he feels more isolated than ever now that Tulsi Gabbard's leaving. And it even got his team to respond saying that it was all made up and everything, of course.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

But I'm sure he and Tulsi were just plotting in the back on how to fail to stop Trump to do bad things.

[Jon Lovett]

I choose to believe that story might be real. I think that would be fun. He has been very.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

If he didn't run.

[Jon Lovett]

He has been very subdued lately.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, he's, he's, he's offline. Remember he quit Twitter for Lent.

[Jon Lovett]

Yes. And then he just. And then after Lent, he just says he's kept it off his phone. He says he gets more done now. Good for him. Good for him.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Honestly, offline listener JD Vance.

[Jon Lovett]

I was gonna say if he wants to come on offline, we can talk about it. You see that Gretchen Whitmer ruled out running for president in 2028. She may have, like, partially walked it back.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Just weird. But she sounded in the actual clip, she was pretty clear.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

She was not running. This does not surprise me. She has really done none of the things that the people who are obviously running for president are doing. She's not out trying to get a lot of national attention. She's not making Herself a foil against Trump. She's not going to all these cattle call events like Al Sharpton's National Action Network and some of these other big events she had. I've not heard of her, like meeting with donors, hiring staff, you know, talking to people like the, the people who are, who are running, they're calling other people and they're making sure they know they might be running. And, you know, and trying to persuade those people. We hear from some of them. But so is that surprising? One thing that I think is I did occur to me when I read this is with let's presuming Gretchen Whitmer does not run. There are really only two other women who were thinking of running, and that's Kamala Harris and AOC oh, yeah, I

[Jon Lovett]

was going to say AOC and who else? All right, Kamal Harris.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes. And neither of them, I think, are, I think most people would say the odds are against both of them running. Oh, so you could. The point being is you could end up with an all male field, which would be kind of gross in 2028.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah. I think, though, for Gretchen Whitmer, it's like, good for you. Like, that is the. If you, no one should ever feel pushed into running for president because you are mentioned as someone who could be president. Like, she is someone on paper who seems like, absolutely, she could run for president. She clearly doesn't feel the fire in the belly, doesn't want to go through. And it's like, good, that's the better decision to make than to be like, all right, I'm going to do it. I'm going to put everyone through it. We're going to go through the whole paces. It's a very big decision. It's a life changing decision. And also, you got to think about the party and the makeup of the field. And like, if she doesn't want to do it, then, like, good for her for bowing out early. All right, finally, speaking of deciding not to run for president, I want to just quickly take you back to June 27, 2024, the night of Joe Biden's debate with Donald Trump. We were there, not at the debate, but you remember, you remember the night we were together? We were together. You might remember that. Right afterward, Joe and Jill Biden dropped by a watch party to thank supporters. And here's what Jill Biden said then. Joe, you did such a great job. You answered every question.

[Scott Colomb]

You knew all the facts.

[Jon Lovett]

Never gets old. Now Dr. Biden's out with a memoir, which she promoted in an interview with cbs Sunday morning this weekend. And here's how she recounted actually feeling watching the debate.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I don't know what happened. I mean, as I watched it, I thought, oh, my God, he's having a stroke. And it scared me to death. That's time of my life I don't really want to go back to. I mean, I will say I maintain a deep well of anger at the Bidens. People around Joe Biden who helped keep him in the race, the people around Joe Biden who attacked everyone as basically traitors to the cause, who thought Joe Biden should run for president either before or after that debate. Like, that still makes me very mad. I have come to the point this many years later that I just have to decide that I can no longer give a shit about the who knew what when. Like, obviously she was lying then, she's probably lying now.

[Jon Lovett]

In fact, quite a few Biden advisors told Alex Thompson that they do believe she's lying because they pointed out if she thought he was having a stroke, why did she take him to an after party and then go to the Waffle House, which they did after that?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I mean, yeah, obviously, lots of questions here. Here's my thing, right. I just. I have made a personal decision that I'm just going to try not to get. That was basically a summer of pure, unadulterated rage the whole time. What was happening.

[Jon Lovett]

I can remember my blood pressure at the time. Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes. I'm trying not to revisit that period in my life. I. So as I sit here today, I care less about what Jill Biden has to say about what happened in that moment. I care less about what Mike Donnelly or all the other people who covered up for Biden have to say about what happened at that moment. What I care about is what happens going forward. And what bothers me the most is not the timeline of events of 2024, but whether Democratic leaders now will ever reckon with the massive breach of trust that came because of how all of that was handled. They telling voters that what they saw with the rise before the debate was that they shouldn't believe that, and then telling voters what they saw at the debate they shouldn't believe. And that lack of trust hurts us with our own voters, hurts us with the other voters. And we have to be thinking about way at all times about how to rebuild that trust. Like, we should optimize strategic decision making at the highest levels as party for how do we rebuild trust not just with our voters, but with all voters. And that is, I think, as I try to Find a way not just to throw my phone against the wall. Every time I see stuff like that. That's where I'm trying to direct my positive energy.

[Jon Lovett]

That was just remarkably disciplined and adult of you. And, you know, now I'm gonna. Austin just booed.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Didn't you already do a YouTube about this?

[Jon Lovett]

I was gonna say. And I'm gonna. Yeah, I'm gonna take that path as well, because if you wanna hear me flip out about it. And Tommy, we have it on YouTube from this morning when it was fresh. But I really, completely agree.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Was that today? You did that today?

[Jon Lovett]

It was today.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

It's been a long time.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

What a fucking day.

[Jon Lovett]

I know. But I agree with you. And that's the only reason I care about it now too, because I. And I read that. I think I said it to you too. That tweet from Zayd Jelani who said, like, he's like, I think people are underestimating how much the lack of trust people have in the Democratic Party is due to what happened around then. And I do think that, like, you know, you can ask. Do you think Biden and what happened with Biden is going to be an issue in 2028 and narrowly? No, But I think that the people are going to remember that the Democratic Party, when I say Democratic Party, I mean the people in the White House, the campaign, plenty of Democratic pundits, plenty of people online who are still fighting that fight, lied to people and didn't even lie to people in a way that was like, lied to people in a pretty obvious, obviously false transparent way. And so that's like, it's worse than a lie. It's treating people like they're fucking idiots, which is basically what they did. They told the whole country.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's the bigger thing.

[Jon Lovett]

They told the whole country. Like, you know what? You know who the problem is? It's these, these, these fucking DC establishment bedwetters who think that Joe Biden did bad in the debate. Those. They're the problem. All I'm. We're with all you people and, you know, we, we believe that everything was great. We know, we think you believe that too. And they, like, I think people are going to believe that. Like, come on.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. There was a level of delusion and deception that was bigger than, like, dismissive. I think dismissive is the right way to put it. Yes. It was bigger than just the Biden's age stuff. It was inflation.

[Jon Lovett]

Yep.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It was Gaza. Gaza. And the combination of all of those things have put the Democratic Party in a bad place with its own voters, not to mention everyone else. And we have to be thinking about how we fix it. And that's one of the reasons why I got so mad about the DSCC and Chuck Schumer coming in and putting their hand in these races and in some cases now putting their thumb on the scale, but not saying they're putting their thumb on the scale by funneling money through APAC super PACs or these other super PACs in these other states like that.

[Jon Lovett]

And I thought you were gonna say, this is why I got so mad at the Ken Martin thing too, because that was the same idea.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes, that's exactly right. That's it, too. And that's allowed me to experience many of the same people because I wrote that message box two and a half seconds after the autopsy came out, calling for Ken Martin to resign. I really put myself at the front of the line for the people online to come out to say, like, where's the autopsy of your work in 2024? Pushing more good men out of jobs.

[Jon Lovett]

But this is what. And this is in the context of going forward. I just want the people running in 2028, the people who are gonna be talking about the 2028 race, like, when the Biden stuff comes up, when the DNC stuff comes up, whatever. Like people who are willing to say, totally fucked up, I was wrong, bad move. Oh, you know, wish I was more honest. Wish I was more transparent. Like, great, that's fine. But you got to say that, you know, people like, yeah, where's the autopsy of your work? We're fine to say when we fucked up. This whole company was started because of a fuck up. Because we were so confident that Hillary Clinton was going to win. We were fucking wrong. I wish that we had gone harder. Joe Biden earlier than the debate said that before, too. You know, like, it's okay. You can say that you were wrong. It's fine. You don't have to issue a. You don't have to issue carefully worded statements that evade the question because you know what? People aren't going to trust you. So anyway, good luck on the book tour, Jill. All right, when we come back from the break, you'll hear my conversation with Mississippi Senate candidate Scott Colomb.

[Jon Favreau]

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[Jon Lovett]

Scott Colomb, welcome to POD Save America.

[Scott Colomb]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Jon Lovett]

You are a district attorney in Mississippi. You're seventh generation Mississippian. Your mom is the first black woman elected to her region's Chancery court. Your dad worked for Ronald Reagan before becoming a Democrat. When a Mississippi voter asks why a guy with your resume is running for Senate as a Democrat in 2026, what do you tell them?

[Scott Colomb]

I tell them that we've got to have a senator that's fights for Mississippi, somebody that understands that the tariffs have been terrible for the farmers, for the small businesses, that it's been terrible for the people going to the grocery store and that are struggling. And I'm not going to D.C. to be the Democratic senator. I'm not. We're not a state that can afford that. Right. You know, Mississippi's got 3 million people. California's got close to 50 million. You guys got two senators. We got two senators. We have to use that to bring resources and jobs and opportunities to Mississippi. And our current junior senator, she's betrayed that. She's totally betrayed that. The people of Mississippi know it and that's why they're going to go in a new direction this November.

[Jon Lovett]

You are running in a state that Trump just won in 2024 by 23 points.

[Scott Colomb]

Yes. Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

A lot of people will hear Mississippi Senate race and maybe laugh.

[Scott Colomb]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

Make the case to the skeptic. What do you see on the ground?

[Scott Colomb]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

That suggests you could become the first Democrat. Really? The first Senate candidate to win a state the incumbent president just won by 23 points.

[Scott Colomb]

So, you know, I get this question asked to me a lot, as you can imagine. And I used to answer it like I was David Axelrod. I would say, well, hold on guys. In non presidential years we get much closer, right? Like our last Democratic candidate for governor got within three points of winning last year. We broke the super majority in the state Senate. But what I realized is I needed to explain to people why I can win, right? And the reality is when I ran for District Attorney in 2015, I ran against a 30 year incumbent. I was in a district that people had thought I had no chance of winning. But what I realized is that under the right circumstances, with the right opponent and the right candidate, you can win a tough race in Mississippi. And those, those three things are totally at play now, right? I mean, I was with some, I got invited on the Gulf coast, some Mississippians who previously voted Republicans. Notice I didn't call them Republicans. Mississippians who previously voted Republican. They reached out to my campaign and said, listen, we love what you're doing on social media. I was on a podcast and they were like, we love what you said on the podcast. You're talking about Mississippi values. We want you to come meet with us. They said, maybe two or three people. We'll see how it goes. When I got there, it was 20 people, former Republican voters. And they talked to me about how in this particular moment, they feel like they're getting betrayed by the Trump administration with $1.7 billion for people that assaulted cops that the president's cronies get to control. And then you look at Senator, our junior senator, right? I call her Cindy. High prices because all we got is high prices from her. So you look at her and she's a part of the corruption. I mean, she's gotten campaign contributions from fertilizer companies that are under investigation for price fixing. Wow. The whole same fertilizer companies are really hurting our farmers. The tariffs hurt them. Now we got fertilizer costs because of warning our rent up, price fixing. She's taking money from them. She is. You know, I mean, one of the Republican former Mississippi Republicans told me, he said, listen, when I heard about her going to Las Vegas, $10,000 campaign contributions to stay at luxury hotel, to eat at luxury restaurants. That reminds me of the corruption we're seeing in D.C. and you know, we gotta go in a new direction and just tell us what you're running on. And I'm running on making everybody's life in Mississippi better. You know, it's, it's.

[Jon Lovett]

How do you do that.

[Scott Colomb]

I mean, you gotta talk about the issues. And the other thing that I think is important, and this is for everybody listening. This is a mistake. I think people are making. We're making it too much about the candidates. We're looking for celebrities to do the profile. Oh, my God. They're great speakers. I think I got a lot of charisma. I think I'm charming. I think I can give a good speech.

[Jon Lovett]

I think you're charming so far.

[Scott Colomb]

But I'll tell you this, going out there campaigning, listening to voters, I ask voters all the time, what matters to you. The number one answer, someone who does what they say they're gonna do, it's not about us, it's about them. We have to make sure voters can trust us again. And that has to be not just running 30 second commercials. We can't advertise our way out this problem. We gotta go back and touch voters. We gotta gain their trust and we get power again. We have to deliver. We have to make sure people understand that their vote matter, that we make their life better. And so that's a big part of my strategy is I really get out there. I campaign. Anybody following me, John? I don't know any Senate campaign, that campaign's more than me. I mean, it's three events on Saturday. And I love voters. I love voters and I listen to them. You know, I don't just do town halls. I do town halls. But at some point you're just talking to people that you know who are motivated to vote. Right. I go to the festivals, I go to the housing projects. I'm gonna do a food truck where I pull up at the union halls, go to the plants. We gotta go to the voters. We gotta gain that trust.

[Jon Lovett]

So the former comm staffer in me believes you are totally right, that you should not give the answer like David Axelrod would give the answer. That's what we would tell. Don't be a pundit. But now I am a pundit. So Mike espy loses by 7.8 in 2018. And I remember on that race consultants on the Espy campaign being like, mississippi, it's going to happen. Talk to Espy. And then Hood lost the governor's race by 5.5 in 2019. And then Brandon Pressley lost by only 3.2 in 2023. So it's a narrowing margin.

[Scott Colomb]

Absolutely.

[Jon Lovett]

Still a margin. What's the theory of the case that you're the one who can actually close it as opposed to being like the next data point where and then Scott got even closer.

[Scott Colomb]

Yeah, I mean, some of it's the environment, right? I mean, you look at 2018, the economy was pretty good in Mississippi. You look at the economy now, the tariffs have been terrible. Nobody talks about how the tariffs have hurt Mississippi. You know, I was talking to a woman dollar general manager, right. And I was shooting a little commercial in there, and I didn't ask her permission first. So, you know, you try to, you know, what are you doing with those cameras? Let me do 15 seconds real quick. Get out of here. Direct the camera real quick. And she noticed me and she said, what are you doing? I. I said, well, listen, I'm a Senate candidate. I'm running against Cindy Highsmith. She had no idea who that was. And I was like, well, listen, don't worry about her. I'm the guy. And so I started talking to her. I said, listen, how are the customers doing? And she said, they're struggling. I'm seeing them every month trying to figure out, can they pay for diapers, can they pay for groceries? And prices keep going up. And she was like, I don't know what it is. I don't know what I can do. I feel helpless. So I asked her, I said, what do you think about the tariffs? It was almost like a bug went off. She was like, yeah, you know what it is? The tariffs? It is the tariffs. You're right, they're bad.

[Jon Lovett]

And do people that you talk to connect that to the guy they voted for by 23 points? Do they say, like, tariff bad, Trump tariff. Like, do they put it all together?

[Scott Colomb]

You know, I think tariff is a bad word. You know, I don't know that they always do. I mean, there's a lot of voters that say they know it's bad because it became a popular term here recently, but we need to change the name of it. It's. It really is a working class tax. Yeah, it's not a terror. It's a working class tax.

[Jon Lovett]

Sales tax.

[Scott Colomb]

It's a sales tax. I mean, and it's unfair to working people. It's a. It's a terrible way to. To collect revenue, because if you make, you know, 15,000amonth or you make 2,000amonth, you're paying the same tax.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Scott Colomb]

And so, you know, we're connecting the dots for them. But I'll tell you who's really feeling it and they understand it are the farmers. You know, I mean, I could tell you story after story about how farmers are struggling in Mississippi and now the fertilizer costs. And the problem is you talk about the corruption and how she's allowing the corruption, how she's partaking in it. But then you have to add that with. She's totally absent in the state. I mean, she hadn't done a town hall in six years. She does not campaign. I mean, her only strategy is scare tactics. 30 second commercial. To scare the voters.

[Jon Lovett]

She. Yeah, a recent Democratic internal poll had her, I think, at 55% unfavorable.

[Scott Colomb]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

It's like 12 points underwater from Trump in her own state. Why do you think she's so much weaker than the brand? Yeah, you got a senior senator in that state, I'm sure Roger Wicker, that's. That's more popular than her. Like, what is the specific Hyde Smith problem as opposed to generic Republican.

[Scott Colomb]

You have to think about it this way. You know, when I was. This is a great way to really bring the story home. When I was a child, my dad was a Republican before he supported Obama in 08. He actually was Republicans for Obama. Obama switched him. But anyways, when I would go to Jackson State football games at halftime, you would see Thad Cochran at halftime with a $50,000 check going to Jackson State. That's a hard guy to be. You know what I'm saying? It's hard to get motivated if a guy's breaking $50,000. And we actually have a tradition in Mississippi of having senators that understand this position has to bring resources back to Mississippi. You know, Trent Lott, I don't agree with him on a lot of things, but he did a lot to bring jobs back. I mean, he was majority leader at one point. The majority leader was from Mississippi. So with her, a big problem is the people, even Republicans, are like, excuse me, voters who used to vote Republican, they are like, she is totally mia. We can't find her anywhere. She doesn't do anything. You know, I don't think we've ever had a senator that's this absent. And she thinks that all she has to do is be 100% Maga and she can win. But the reality is, I've been out there talking to voters, and they want somebody that's 100% Mississippi because they understand the stakes. It's not like things are going well, if you ask. I mean, you can ask the most loyal Trump supporter, Porter, right now, are things going well? They ain't saying yes.

[Jon Lovett]

Right.

[Scott Colomb]

You know, they ain't saying yes.

[Jon Lovett]

So if you become senator, you'd be the junior senator from Mississippi. Seniority in the Senate, you'd rank towards the bottom, like all new senators do. So, like, what do you. You're making the case that she's not bringing home resources to Mississippi. How do you make the case to voters that, like, if you go to the Senate, you'll be able, even though you're one of a hundred and sort of, you know, a junior senator, help bring home resources to Mississippi?

[Scott Colomb]

Yeah, I mean, one, I'm going to use my vote and my voice to really, to really represent Mississippi. I'm not going there. I keep saying this. I'm not going there to be a celebrity. I'm going there to deliver for Mississippi. And so that gives me leverage because I'm not. If a Republican offers something that makes sense for Mississippi, I'll support it. If a Democrat offers something that makes sense for Mississippi, I'll support it. Now, of course, you're right. As a junior senator, you gotta be smart. And what I want to do is I'm going to find issues that Republicans already support. Right. Like economic development is a big thing in Mississippi. How do we bring in industries to develop capital to get our state moving in the right direction? I mean, we're not like la, where you got bill is. I mean, you know, every, you know, it's really.

[Jon Lovett]

And we spend it wisely.

[Scott Colomb]

Well, you know, I'm gonna let y' all control that. But, you know, but for Mississippi, we need capital, we need economic development. We've got to be even Republicans leaders know that. And so that's an area where I can be impactful. That's really bipartisan. In the other areas we gotta find, like, for me, I gotta find smaller problems that I can help solve. Like, I had a good friend of mine who mentioned to me that dental care is really bad in Mississippi. It's at the bottom. And so, like, that's a problem that I can help solve as a senator from Mississippi. That's not a partisan thing. So trying to find solutions to practical problems that makes people's life better. And the other thing that I'm gonna do, and I've learned this from campaigning so much, is, you know, we can't stop campaigning. I mean, I know once you win, you gotta govern, but you also better still campaign because a place like Mississippi, if they feel like you go to D.C. and you're just making money or, you know, just a celebrity, it's not gonna work. So for me, we gotta have strong anti corruption legislation that makes clear that we're not in there making money. You know, that's why I support a ban on stock trading. That's why we can't have people become lobbyists right after they become senators. We gotta get the corruption and the perception of it, because that helps the people that are openly corrupt.

[Jon Lovett]

Right.

[Scott Colomb]

Because they can say the people are like, well, you know, they're corrupt, but so is everybody's corrupt. We gotta show them we're not corrupt. We're public service. We're not there to make money. And it's beneficial to me that, like you said, my mom was a chance to court judge, and I learned my ethics and values from my parents. And so I'm really trying to honor their legacy. That's why it's important to me to be transparent and be somebody that people can trust. Because I want to honor my parents. I also want to honor the ancestors that sacrificed so much for me to even have this opportunity to talk to you.

[Jon Lovett]

I was just thinking, the last Democratic senator from a state that voted by double digits, this many, double, like in the 20s for Trump. Yeah. It was Joe Manchin.

[Scott Colomb]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

And his model was like, cut deals, piss off your party constantly, and then, you know, vote with the president when it suited the state. Is that your model, too?

[Scott Colomb]

Well, I think Senator Manchin tried to get a little bit more attention than I'll try to get. You know, I mean, he does love attention. You know what I mean? So for me, I'm more going to be trying to use my leverage and voice to. To cut deals that make sense and benefit Mississippi, but not try to be just somebody making. Constantly complaining about things.

[Jon Lovett]

If, if, if. I'm sure you'll hear this from voters if they're like, okay, you say you're not going to be a typical Democratic senator. You're gonna be a Mississippi senator. Yeah, I don't like the Democrats. I don't like what they've done. Where do you think the Democrats have gone wrong? Where. Where do you break from the party? Where would you be different than a typical Democrat?

[Scott Colomb]

Yeah, but we gotta talk about economic issues. That's the first thing. I mean, because if people like I. I knew this because I had a friend of mine that was a barber. He unfortunately passed away. Shout out to Jasper Pittman. He was a great political head. So in 2020, when President Biden won, there was a lot of enthusiasm, there was high turnout. And 2021, 2022, he was a Democrat. He started getting sour on the party because of inflation. And then what he felt like was, man, we're talking about sending all this money to Ukraine. We're talking about foreign stuff. Like, man, my life's not Gotten better, prices are up. We got to start talking about me. We got to start talking about the voters. And I was able to convince him that it made sense, that we made sure Russia, Soviet Union, and Putin didn't take over Ukraine. But I was a trusted messenger, and there's too many people that didn't have trusted messenger to help them understand the Democratic Party did care about the fact that inflation was out of control, that we did care about the fact that the border seemed like it was out of control. And, you know, that a lot of people feel like that hurts workers. That hurts workers. And so we gotta talk about economic issues. The other thing is that we have to, like, I feel like the last couple years we've been trying to figure out, you know, the answer to Trump is President Trump wants to make everything about himself. He loves that all the attention is on him. And we've been either making every campaign about him or trying to find somebody that can be as much of a celebrity Right. As him, somebody who can convince these voters. I think we gotta go back and we gotta make our campaigns about the voters again. We have to have candidates that not can only go on a podcast and make a case, but the actual house should be able to be comfortable taking 75 selfies.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, right.

[Scott Colomb]

Going to a festival where nobody knows them.

[Jon Lovett]

You gotta like people.

[Scott Colomb]

You gotta like people. And that's great for me because I love people. And my opponent, she can't stand Mississippians. I mean, she does not campaign at all.

[Jon Lovett]

So the challenge for Democrats, as always, is it's like, okay, we want to talk about economic issues. We want to talk about making people's lives better. And then the Republicans don't let you because they make all the attacks about their favorite wage issues. Hyde Smith's campaign manager called you the transgender defender. Said you were handpicked by Schumer, bankrolled by Sorosoft on crime, all the radical sex changes for children. I just unloaded the clip. All the favorites. Walk me through how you answer that. Like, not for our audience, who knows it's garbage, but, like, for a voter in Mississippi that will hear Those ads right. 15 times between now and November.

[Scott Colomb]

So I knew that she was gonna do that. I knew exactly. All those attacks, like, one play. Yeah, Yeah. I mean. And so if you look at my campaign announcement ad, I tried to preempt it, Right? So, for example, I know in Mississippi, the way to counter a lot of that stuff is to show people that your life, your life is like theirs. Right? So my announcement ad centered around My family, I've got two daughters. I coach their soccer team. Listen, I mean, come on. I mean, people are gonna fall for that. Like, my dream. This is what I tell my daughters. I say, listen, you know, there's not many ways you can disappoint me, but if neither one of you become a basketball player, I am gonna be disappointed.

[Jon Lovett]

I mean, does that work?

[Scott Colomb]

I mean, one of the junior, one of my youngest ones is starting to work because I say, you know, when you get older, if you ever complain, I'mma always remind you, I wanted one thing and you didn't deliver for me. So, I mean. And the other thing is we got to lead with our values. You know, for me, you know, I do soulful Sundays where I talk to church faith leaders, and I center them and talk about, you know, there's a lot of. For whatever reason, we've allowed people like Sydney Highsmith to trick voters into thinking that we Democrats don't believe in faith, Democrats don't believe in family. Like, I have much more in common than to the average Mississippi family than she does. You know, my wife, she makes me drop the kids off at school sometimes. Cindy High Smith is never doing that. Right. I go to the soccer game, watching my kids play. She's not doing that. My wife makes me go grow, let me keep stuff and say, my wife makes me do it as a good partner. It's a good partner. My wife has trained me well as a good partner. Sometimes I have the grocery shop, too, and so I'm at the grocery store talking to people, listening. You know, my life is like theirs. So I'm gonna cut through that mess by showing them how my life is like theirs, showing them my family and centering the voters. Because, you know, every. Every Monday, I drop a video called Mississippi Matters. Monday, and I'm. I'm having voters kind of man on the street style, asking people to say what matters to them. All the stuff she's attacked me on, no voters ever said that's what matters to them. It's not on their mind. It's not. So for me, if I can raise enough money to counter her lies with the truth and tell the truth about her, we're gonna win. I'm telling you, we're gonna win. The wind's at my back.

[Jon Lovett]

So what's the message to a donor in California or New York deciding between writing a check to your race and to say, North Carolina, Maine, Ohio, even Texas? That's probably higher on the DSCC list.

[Scott Colomb]

Yeah, but whoever's making those lists, I Mean, what's the results? Right. So, I mean, maybe we need to redo the list a little bit, because Mississippi is a cheaper state to compete in. We're a cheaper state to compete in. But, you know, we have Christian, as you and I agree, we have Christian PI. Say Mississippi Day.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, this is it, May 28th. From now on.

[Scott Colomb]

Now on, we're going to talk about Mississippi. And the reality is you can't save America unless you say Mississippi. I mean, we have to matter when the country has done well. Everybody's paying attention to what's going on in Mississippi. We focus on the voters in Mississippi making sure that they have quality education, quality health care. We don't let these people that want to take our country back control everything. And when we got, you know, when we've done poorly is we ignore Mississippi. And there's. There's plenty of examples of Mississippi being ignored, and we've seen the results of that. And to get ourselves out of this mess, what we have to remember is rural America matters. We have to have candidates that understand rural America that are not afraid to talk to former Republican voters and people that are not scared to talk to folks that don't even know who their senator is.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Scott Colomb]

You know, there's. Man, I'm telling. I'm going to win. People are going to be. Other people outside Mississippi are going to be surprised. I'm not going to be surprised. It's been trending that way, as you pointed out. It's been trending that way. But also, we're running a different type of campaign. We're centering the voters, not me. You know, if you look at my videos, I have other people talking. I mean. Can I tell you a quick story?

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Scott Colomb]

I had a waitress at a restaurant. You know, it was kind of like he was starstruck at a moment, right? He was like, oh, is that Scott Colon? Like, oh, my God. I said, listen, listen, I'm not. I'm not a celebrity. Guys, what's going on? Tell me. Tell me what's on your mind. Tell me what matters to you. He said, first, I love that you do that. And I've been waiting to give you my answer if I ever saw you. He said, what matters to me is, like, the drug prices are up because I'm on Medicaid and I had to get worse insurance. Now I'm paying more to get less. I'm struggling. But he told me, listen, I never voted before. I never voted before. I'm going to vote for you because you center voters. He didn't say center voters.

[Jon Lovett]

Right.

[Scott Colomb]

He said, I love that you have regular people on your videos. You have the barber. You know, you have two kids just, you know, looking at the camera saying, you know, this is why voting matters. I mean, you know, for me, I can feel the momentum and the movement because I am out there listening. And you can do this in Mississippi. You can't do this in every state, but you can do this in Mississippi. And I'm excited. And, you know, Mississippi matters. We're going to show the country Mississippi matters.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, it is not an easy thing to do to run for office. Certainly not an easy thing to do in a state like Mississippi when you're a Democrat and you are. I really appreciate that you're doing it and doing it so joyfully.

[Scott Colomb]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

So good luck out there.

[Scott Colomb]

I appreciate it.

[Jon Lovett]

Thanks for coming on Pod Save America on Pod Save Mississippi Day.

[Scott Colomb]

Absolutely. Hey, you know, if you want to be a part of the movement, go to scottcolomb.com we're building something special in Mississippi. I'll come back May 28th next year. We'll be talking about how I keep my promise.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Scott Colomb]

It will be how I keep my commitments, how we're delivering. Because the good thing about you is you understand this is not a. I mean, running for office is hard, but running for office and being a leader is also hard. So we can't stop.

[Jon Lovett]

That's right.

[Scott Colomb]

We gotta be constant to keep it going. So thank you so much for having me.

[Jon Lovett]

Thanks, Scott.

[Scott Colomb]

All right. Appreciate it.

[Jon Lovett]

That's our show for today. Thanks to Scott Colomb for coming by. I'll be back on Sunday with a conversation with our pal Ben Rhodes. He's got a new book about speeches, American Speeches and American Identity. And so we'll be geeking out about speechwriting and talking about America's 250th. So check it out.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Bye, everyone.

[Jon Lovett]

Pod Save America is a crooked media production. Our show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts, and Farah Safari, with Reed Churlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill. Our team includes Matt de Groat, Ben Hefcote, Jordan Kantor, Charlotte Landis, Kirill Pelaviev, David Toles, Mia Kellman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Singel. Our staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.