Pod Save America — "MAGA Media Turns on Trump" (feat. David Pakman)

Release Date: April 19, 2026
Hosted by: Dan Pfeiffer
Guest: David Pakman (Host, The David Pakman Show)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Dan Pfeiffer sits down with progressive commentator David Pakman to dissect dramatic shifts in the MAGA media landscape as former staunch pro-Trump outlets and personalities begin sharply criticizing Donald Trump—especially in the wake of the Iran War and related economic turbulence. Their wide-ranging conversation touches on the Iran negotiations, Trump's economic messaging, the significance of MAGA media fracturing, and the broader dynamics of the American media ecosystem. Pakman also reflects on lessons from his own media career and offers analysis of the progressive movement's media strategies.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Iran Negotiations and Trump’s Foreign Policy ([03:30] – [16:55])

• Pakman’s Take on the Strait of Hormuz “Deal”

  • Trump celebrates reopening the Strait as a personal victory, but Pakman notes this crisis was self-inflicted due to Trump’s withdrawal from the original 2015 Iran nuclear deal.
  • Quote:
    "The theme is like arsonists setting fires and then declaring victory when they partially put the fires out after they've already done a bunch of damage."
    – David Pakman [04:20]
  • The best outcome, per Pakman and Pfeiffer, is returning to a weaker version of the deal Trump previously trashed:
    "Donald Trump's best case scenario is probably a slightly lesser version of the deal that he ripped up in 2018."
    – Dan Pfeiffer [06:05]

• Longer-term Consequences

  • The US' credibility as a negotiating partner is permanently undermined by flip-flopping on major deals.
    "Even if you undo 100% of it, which I don't think you can... what about when the next administration is here? Other countries remember that the United States has had these circumstances where you make a deal... and then on the whims of a president, they say, hey, we're out."
    – David Pakman [09:21]
  • Allies now accept that US foreign policy could shift radically every four years, eroding trust.

• Domestic Political Impact

  • While the Iran war and energy price spikes could hurt Trump and Republicans in November, both agree that effects could fade if oil and gas prices drop ([12:52]).
  • The war derailed any major economic recovery narrative for Trump’s reelection campaign.
  • Trump’s approval rating took a 4-point hit, which Pakman calls "significant" given the shrinking 'convincible' electorate ([15:59]).

2. Trump’s Economic Messaging & the “Affordability Tour” ([19:42] – [30:21])

• Trump’s "No Tax on Tips" Gimmick

  • Pfeiffer and Pakman analyze Trump’s attempt to appeal to working-class voters with a "no-tax-on-tips" policy, highlighting its superficiality.
  • Pakman points out that it would actually benefit most tipped workers very little:
    "What this is, is a deduction... The vast majority of tipped workers are paying very little, if any, federal income tax. So there’s actually not that much left to deduct."
    – David Pakman [21:04]

• Trump as Ineffective Economic Messenger

  • Trump struggles to show empathy or acknowledge economic hardship, often denying problems or touting macroeconomic stats irrelevant to most Americans:
    "[Trump] is a good economic messenger when he's in charge and the economy is good... when he's in power and the economy is bad, he's terrible because he can't admit fault. He can't do the Bill Clinton 'feel your pain' thing."
    – Dan Pfeiffer [22:31]
  • Both contrast this with Obama’s and Clinton’s more effective, empathetic messaging.

• Data vs. Lived Experience

  • Pakman: Republicans, after years of saying “you can’t tell people things are fine if they don’t feel it,” now fall into the same trap—touting numbers while ignoring everyday economic pain ([24:26]).
  • Pfeiffer: "In general, in politics, you either got to solve the problem [or] get caught trying to solve the problem. And Trump's doing... neither." ([25:22])

• Viral Moments and Media Strategy

  • Discussion of the "DoorDash Grandma" event: Visuals and virality can matter more than the substance, though poor execution can undercut the intended effect ([27:41]).

3. The MAGA Media Civil War ([32:45] – [43:31])

• Major MAGA-Aligned Media Figures Turn on Trump

  • Notable hosts and influencers—Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Candace Owens, Alex Jones, Joe Rogan, Andrew Schultz—are now openly critical of Trump on issues like war and policy betrayal.
  • Quote:
    "Here's a leader who's mocking the gods of his ancestors, mocking the God of gods and exalting himself above them. Could this be the Antichrist?"
    – Ex-MAGA Host Clip [33:09]
  • Pakman: This won’t turn Trump voters into Democrats, but could demobilize MAGA turnout:
    "I think... a lot of these folks, if they're not liking what they're seeing, they're going to stay home. Now, that still presents an opportunity... for Democrats." ([34:07])

• Right-Wing Media Incentives Are Changing

  • Pfeiffer: MAGA influencers went all-in on Trump because that’s where the audience (and money) was—but now the audience is fragmenting.
  • "If these people were seeing giant drops in viewership... we would hear a different tone and you're not seeing that. So I do think that there is something that has changed in the economic incentive structure of right wing media, which I think is problematic for Trump."
    – Dan Pfeiffer [36:32]

• What Is "MAGA"?

  • Discussion on MAGA as personal loyalty to Trump, not a coherent ideology.
  • "Is Trumpism even conservative? By any traditional... there's not much conservatism left anywhere in that movement."
    – David Pakman [40:25]
  • "Is MAGA just another word for Trump fan? And I think... it's definitely the latter now."
    – Dan Pfeiffer [41:07]

4. The State of the Media Ecosystem & Progressive Media Strategy ([43:31] – [71:24])

• From Radio to YouTube: Pakman’s Media Journey

  • Pakman built his show as podcasting and YouTube began to overtake legacy media. Early entrants had a fast-growing pie—today, the space is crowded with slowing audience growth ([43:56]).
  • Corporate interests (legacy media, private equity) now shape even “independent” digital media.

• Left vs. Right Funding Strategies

  • The right invested heavily and early in digital/independent media.
  • Progressive funders are still attached to legacy institutions, struggle with unfamiliar platforms, and prioritize TV ad ROI over long-term audience-building.
  • Pakman: "You could just leverage [progressive shows] with ad dollars... but I've pitched that to some people and they don't really seem to get it." ([48:24])
  • Pfeiffer and Pakman agree: short-termism and focus on immediate election wins has hurt progressive media’s growth.

• Algorithmic Forces and the Right’s Advantage

  • Pakman’s new book ("Pay Attention") explores how social/media algorithms structurally favor right-wing, outrage-based, simple messaging ([56:26]).
  • "The rights’ argumentation is built for what performs best in these algorithms... Simple ideas with a clear scapegoat or someone to blame perform better."
    – David Pakman [58:53]
  • Host platforms are owned by pro-Trump billionaires, but Pakman argues that the content style and algorithmic dynamics matter even more than personal politics of owners.

• Why Democrats Struggle with Digital Messaging

  • Messages are inherently more complex; digital-native approaches are slow to be adopted; staff structures and risk aversion reduce authenticity.
  • "The communication I have with staffers from Democratic elected officials sometimes is really weird... it completely seems to miss what I do."
    – David Pakman [62:51]
  • Pfeiffer: Many staffers get it, but face bosses locked in “the old media world.” Politicians’ media instincts "freeze in amber" the year they're elected ([64:30]).
  • The need for authenticity and long-form engagement is stressed; generic talking points are ineffective.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump’s Deal-Making:
  "To what end was all of this? To just end up right where we were before?" – Dan Pfeiffer [06:05]

• On US Credibility:
  "This is why I say that the effect of this, even if you undo 100% of it... other countries remember... you make a deal... and then on the whims of a president, they say, hey, we're out." – David Pakman [09:21]

• On MAGA Media Fracture:
  "I think that the comments... are not going to turn Trump voters into midterm Democratic voters… I think a lot of these folks, if they're not liking what they're seeing, they're going to stay home." – David Pakman [34:07]

• On Right-wing Content Algorithms:
  "You don’t have to build [algorithms] in a way that it helps the right... there’s something more structural in there." – David Pakman [58:53]

• On Democratic Messaging:
  "If you sound like a politician, you're fucked. It's over… You have to convince them you're human... You just seem like a normal human and people are just afraid to do that." – Dan Pfeiffer [67:29]

• Advice for 2028 Dem Candidates:
  "The primary thing would be: get your staff out of the way... don’t allow staff to get in the way of what can be really good conversations." – David Pakman [70:44]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & Background – [02:25]
• Iran Negotiations & Trump's Foreign Policy Legacy – [03:30]
• Economic Messaging / No Tax on Tips & Messaging Failures – [19:42]
• Media Strategy / Viral Events – [27:41]
• MAGA Media Civil War – [32:45]
• What Is MAGA? / Media Incentives for the Right – [40:04]
• Pakman's Media History & Shift to Corporate Digital Media – [43:31]
• Why Progressive Media is Underfunded – [47:28]
• Algorithms & Right-wing Messaging Advantage – [56:14]
• Dem Messaging Struggles / Media Staff Friction – [62:51]
• Authenticity in Political Communication – [67:29]
• Democrats Doing Media Well – [69:17]
• Final Advice for 2028 Candidates – [70:44]

Takeaways

• The MAGA media’s criticism of Trump signals potential for reduced turnout among his base, rather than a direct shift to Democrats.
• Trump’s approach to “winning” (undoing Obama/Biden, claiming “new” deals) and mishandling economic messaging could hurt his standing—but impacts are highly contingent on short-term economic conditions.
• Progressive and Democratic media infrastructure faces ongoing challenges: slow funding, legacy institution bias, and a lack of engagement with digital-native platforms and content creators.
• Right-wing content outperforms by design in algorithmic media environments, presenting a strategic challenge that goes beyond who owns the platforms.
• Authenticity and direct engagement are critical for effective political communication in today’s media landscape; talking points and rigid staff interventions are counterproductive.

For those interested in deeper commentary on media algorithms and their political impact, look out for David Pakman’s forthcoming book, "Pay Attention."