Pod Save America: "Rahm Emanuel is Not NOT Running for President"
Date: December 21, 2025
Host: Tommy Vietor (Crooked Media)
Guest: Rahm Emanuel (former Obama Chief of Staff, former Mayor of Chicago, former U.S. Ambassador to Japan)
Overview of the Episode
In this lively, candid, and at times contentious conversation, Tommy Vietor sits down with political heavyweight Rahm Emanuel to discuss the future of the Democratic Party, reasons behind the party’s 2024 loss, and Emanuel’s not-nonexistent presidential ambitions. The interview dives into political strategy and party branding, grapples with hot-button cultural issues, explores post-October 7 U.S.-Israel policy, and revisits tough Obama-era decisions on counterterrorism. Throughout, Emanuel’s signature directness, strategic thinking, and willingness to disagree with liberal orthodoxy shine through.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Is Rahm Running for President?
[04:02]
- Emanuel is noncommittal but suggests he’s seriously considering a run, traveling the country, pitching policy proposals, and gauging public response.
- Quote: “If I have something to say in a way to say it, that I think strikes a chord that not only with the public but I think addresses the challenges ... I’ll do it.” (Rahm Emanuel, 05:56)
2. Critique & Diagnosis of the Democrats’ 2024 Loss
[06:53]
- Emanuel argues 2024 was winnable but for poor candidate quality, campaign strategy, and messaging.
- He believes the DNC autopsy report on 2024 should be released, but timing must avoid stepping on GOP weaknesses.
- Quote: “I do think the report has to be public because ... the only way to get right in ‘28 is to understand what went wrong in ‘24.” (Rahm Emanuel, 07:12)
- Sees a chronic messaging issue: Democrats fail to cross “cultural terrain” needed for economic credibility, unlike Clinton, Obama, or JFK.
- Democrats “get caught up in ... bathroom access and locker room access, not on classroom excellence ... pronouns ...” (Rahm Emanuel, 11:07)
- Advocates for a cultural grounding that signals strength and middle-class values, citing “Sister Soulja” (Clinton) and Obama’s “parenting and fatherhood” speeches.
3. Culture Wars, LGBTQ+ Rights, and Democratic Branding
[11:26–17:36]
- Tommy Vietor pushes back on the idea that the party focused excessively on trans rights, noting Republicans made it a wedge issue.
- Quote: “I ... think on immigration, [Democrats] missed warning signs, but I don’t think [trans rights] was why we lost.” (Tommy Vietor, 14:57)
- Emanuel insists that the party’s brand came to be defined by “advocacy,” not “acceptance,” on contentious cultural issues, alienating moderate voters.
- Quote: “We were permissive on this topic ... permissive on immigration ... You look like, you sound like you’re from Mars.” (Rahm Emanuel, 16:10)
- The two agree to disagree, but Emanuel warns this dynamic became politically toxic.
4. Fixing the Democratic Party’s Brand
[19:19]
- Emanuel sketches a populist, opportunity-focused vision:
- Focus on making the American Dream affordable and accessible: “You know what’s not up? People’s paycheck.”
- Warns that concentrated wealth and a blocked ladder to the middle class make democracy unstable.
- Emphasizes it’s not just about fighting Trump, but delivering for ordinary Americans on wages, housing, and affordability.
- Urges the party to “fight for that home”—good job, homeownership, retirement, healthcare, kids’ education.
- Quote: “The rules ... are skewed towards Tommy and Rahm and our families for our heads out, we win, tails, you lose. ... If the American dream becomes unaffordable, democracy becomes unstable.” (Rahm Emanuel, 21:00, 22:07)
- Acknowledges the generational change and need for perceived strength, not just newness in candidates.
- Responds to inevitable critiques of being a “creature of Washington” by highlighting his record taking on tough fights (financial industry, insurance, opioids, tobacco, gun lobby).
5. On Trump, the Courts, and Corruption
[30:31]
- Emanuel lambastes the Roberts Supreme Court for gutting institutional guardrails and enabling a politicized presidency.
- Quote: “The Roberts court is corrupt. Corporate America is spineless. Republicans in Congress ... are useless. So we’re down to the judgment of the American people.” (Rahm Emanuel, 35:14)
- Sees MAGA voters’ anger as rooted in betrayal by elites, highlighting that power is now concentrated and unaccountable.
6. U.S.-Israel Policy & the Middle East Post-October 7
[38:38–51:59]
- Emanuel sees Israel as more strategically secure than ever but more politically isolated, thanks largely to Netanyahu.
- Suggests strong measures: no-fly lists for violent settlers, more restrictions/boundaries on U.S. military aid tied to behavior in the West Bank, and cutting off tax benefits for settlement expansion.
- Quote: “Any settler who’s involved in any violence on the West Bank is on a no fly zone ... nothing would make them more upset.” (Rahm Emanuel, 43:21)
- Openly critiques both sides: Palestinian Authority for squandering peace opportunities, Israel’s leadership for entrenching the status quo.
- Warns the U.S. must attach real costs for violating the two-state solution, but also recognizes deep traumas and political constraints on both sides.
- Agrees with using leverage—not automatic support—to incentivize better Israeli decisions.
- On the myth of “burn-it-all-down” politics, Rahm repeatedly argues that delivering tangible improvements for Americans’ lives is the antidote.
7. On Iran, Counterterrorism, and Lessons From the Obama Era
[55:30–72:58]
- Defends (narrowly) Trump’s decision to bomb Iran’s nuclear sites, citing credibility and historic context.
- Illuminates major internal tremors within Iran; predicts possible regime instability driven by economic and societal collapse.
- Quote: “There is a gulf of legitimacy between the society and the government that is wider than we’ve ever experienced.” (Rahm Emanuel, 57:12)
- Reflects on the tough choices of the Obama years—what got prioritized, and consequences for both domestic and global politics.
- On drones and counterterrorism: recalls palpable, immediate threats in 2009–10, expresses some uncertainty but stands by U.S. efforts to prevent attacks on U.S. soil, while admitting that terrorism has become more decentralized worldwide.
- Narrative on “Old Testament justice” and populist anger against big banks—believes Democrats should have harnessed that more aggressively after the 2008 crisis.
8. Asia, China, and Japan’s Changing Role
[63:12–68:51]
- Discusses his time as Ambassador to Japan: credits Japan’s new leadership for willingness to confront China and increase defense preparedness.
- Notes Japan’s shift from military passivity to proactivity, and the U.S. goal to “isolate the isolator” regarding China’s regional ambitions.
- Warns that U.S. fecklessness in the Pacific could trigger a dangerous nuclear arms race.
Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)
-
On considering a presidential run:
“If people react the way I think they’re reacting ... and if I have something to say, I’ll do it.”
—Rahm Emanuel, [04:02–06:24] -
On the Democratic Party’s brand:
“We in 2024 … get caught up in bathroom access and locker room access, not on classroom excellence. … We get caught up on pronouns.”
—Rahm Emanuel, [11:07] -
On the key to winning:
“The three most successful electoral Democrats had to cross a cultural land to get heard on economics. They had to ground themselves in what I call middle class values.”
—Rahm Emanuel, [10:11] -
On MAGA and the institutions:
“The Roberts court is corrupt. Corporate America is spineless. Republicans in Congress … are useless. So we’re down to the judgment of the American people and thank God for them.”
—Rahm Emanuel, [35:14] -
On strategic U.S.-Israel relations:
“Israel has never been more strategically secure … but more politically vulnerable.”
—Rahm Emanuel, [39:33] -
On wealth inequality and democracy:
“If the American dream becomes unaffordable is when our democracy becomes unstable. If you think the system is rigged for your failure, you’re gonna get pretty angry.”
—Rahm Emanuel, [22:07] -
On foreign policy realism:
“You will not hold America’s foreign policy. … You want to spark a nation? … That’s a losing bet.”
—Rahm Emanuel, [44:37] -
On generational and strength axis in leadership:
“There’s an axis. One way of saying ‘new’ … is generational, young versus old. The other is strength versus weak.”
—Rahm Emanuel, [27:26]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Presidential Ambition & Education Reform: [04:02–06:24]
- 2024 Democratic Party Loss Analysis: [06:34–14:13]
- Dem Messaging, Trans Rights & Cultural Debates: [14:13–17:36]
- Party Brand & American Dream Focus: [19:19–25:20]
- Response to "Washington Insider" Critiques: [26:33–28:31]
- The Courts, Trump, and Corruption: [30:31–36:12]
- US-Israel Policy, Gaza & Middle East: [38:49–51:59]
- Iran, Counterterrorism, Obama-Era Dilemmas: [55:30–72:58]
- Japan, China, and Pacific Security: [63:12–68:51]
Memorable Moments
- Tommy teasing Rahm about his brother (Ari) and comparing 2025’s political scandals to their own efforts creating blind trusts during the Obama years ([30:31]).
- Rahm, on being publicly called a “self-hating Jew” by Netanyahu, and swapping barbs with both Bibi and colleagues in the West Wing ([39:33]).
- A spirited disagreement about the prominence (or not) of trans rights in the Democratic platform, and how it impacted the 2024 loss ([14:13–17:36]).
- Rahm’s storytelling about catching the “marriage worked” terrorism plot and the agony of immediate homeland threats as Obama’s Chief ([69:03–72:58]).
Tone & Style
The episode is fast-paced, unsparing, and jargon-rich with lots of political “deep cuts.” Emanuel is forthright, combative in his critiques (of both parties), and unapologetically focused on strategy and winning, while Vietor pushes for nuance and represents the liberal base. The interplay between two Obama-era insiders makes for sharp insights and a candid examination of both the party’s and country’s direction.
This episode is a must-listen for political junkies and progressives looking to dissect the left’s recent failures, understand the cross-currents of cultural and economic crisis, and get a taste of what a Rahm Emanuel candidacy—or a retooled Democratic message—might look like.