The Bruised Hand in the Cookie Jar

Summary

Pod Save America – Episode Summary

Episode Title: The Bruised Hand in the Cookie Jar
Date: May 19, 2026
Hosts: Jon Favreau, Jon Lovett, Tommy Vietor

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Overview

In this episode, the Pod Save America crew delivers their signature, no-BS political analysis on a dramatic week in US politics. The discussion centers on a bombshell New York Times poll with dire numbers for Trump and the Republicans, Trump's apparently bottomless corruption, ongoing major foreign policy tensions (Iran, Cuba, Greenland), and the GOP’s relentless internal purges. The hosts also dive into the brewing "Trump is too old/erratic for office” debate, revisiting parallels with past scrutiny of Biden. With sardonic humor and sharp takes, the episode dissects political realities, media narratives, and hypocrisy at every level.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. New York Times Poll: Historic Lows for Trump & GOP Woes

Segment: [03:21–14:27]

• NYT/Siena Poll Shocker:

  • Democrats hold an 11-point lead among midterm voters (50–39%), a significant movement from earlier D+2/D+5 numbers.
  • Trump's approval rating has dropped to a record-low 37%, the worst for any president since George W. Bush post-Katrina/financial crisis.
  • Host reaction:
    • “Trump's approval is at 37% in their new poll. That is a record low for him for both terms… Let's have that election today, huh?” – Jon Favreau [03:25]
    • “We've been saying Trump bad for so long now that when there's a poll this bad, it's sort of hard. It's almost like there's a, there's a crying wolf thing.” – Jon Favreau [10:05]
  • Voters’ biggest concern is the cost of living; 76% rate the economy as "only fair or poor."
  • 70% of people are dissatisfied with the Democratic Party, only 5% are "very satisfied" (contrast to the size and fervor of Trump’s base).
  • Stark public pessimism about AI: only 16% think it’s "more good than bad."
  • Large majority (64%, incl. 73% of independents) think going to war with Iran was a mistake.

• Israel Support Shifts:

  • U.S. support for economic/military aid to Israel has dropped dramatically: opposition has risen to 57%; support down to 37% (same as Trump’s approval).
  • Emphasis on separating criticism of policy from antisemitism and resisting media conflation of the two.

• Notable Quote:

  • “Support for Israel, financial aid support for Israel, is just about as popular as Donald Trump in this country.” – Jon Favreau [12:10]

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2. Trump’s $1.776 Billion “Patriotic” Slush Fund: Corruption on Display

Segment: [14:27–19:48]

• Breaking the System for Fun & Profit:

  • Trump’s DOJ settles his own lawsuit against the IRS for $1.776 billion, creating a taxpayer-funded pool meant to reward allies, especially those targeted during the Biden administration—including potential January 6th criminals.
  • Hosts call out the "insanely corrupt" workaround enabled by existing law and a docile Congress.
  • “This is a Trump second term is a political smash and grab job where…people who do his bidding just take what they want, get rewarded. They take it from taxpayers, they front run the stock market.” – Tommy Vietor [15:05]
  • The five-person board administering the fund is appointed and fired at will by Trump, guaranteeing cronyism.

• Lack of Checks:

  • “You would also assume [Congress] might care about that, which we don’t have.” – Jon Lovett [16:38]
  • Taxpayer funds could go to those convicted of violence on January 6; Trump himself confirms this is possible.
  • “If you commit a crime on Trump's behalf, not only do you not go to jail, but... you might get some compensation for it.” – Jon Favreau [19:29]

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3. Jared Polis, Tina Peters, & the Politics of Pardoning

Segment: [22:46–29:18]

• Commuting an Election Denier’s Sentence:

  • CO Governor Jared Polis (D) commutes sentence for Tina Peters (ex-Mesa County clerk, election denier convicted of orchestrating voting system breach).
  • Mixed reactions: Tommy cares little, seeing bigger fish to fry; Favreau defends consistency (criminal justice reform should apply to even those with repellent politics); Lovett warns the public perception is marred by Trump’s pressure on Polis.

• Due Process vs. Political Optics:

  • Discussion of whether lengthy sentences for “non-violent, first-time offenders” should apply even to those attacking democratic institutions.
  • “If we believe that people are incarcerated for too long... don't we have to extend that to people whose political beliefs we detest?” – Jon Favreau [25:29]

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4. Trump’s Day Trading Frenzy: An “Unusual Amount” of Corruption

Segment: [29:18–34:17]

• Multi-Million Dollar, Insider-Like Trading:

  • Trump and his advisors executed over 3,700 trades in the first quarter, investing in companies with business before his administration (Nvidia, Oracle, etc.), often right before favorable announcements or policy changes.
  • “They’re making money everywhere…This is crazy.” – Tommy Vietor [30:14]
  • Conflict of interest: White House claims “blind trust” managed by his children.
  • “Not how a blind trust works.” – Tommy Vietor [30:14]
  • Wall Street veteran quoted: “in 40 plus years...this is an unusual amount of trading by any standards.” (Eric Dayton, Wealth Alliance) [33:00]

• Notable Moment:

  • Hosts joke about Trump's “team” possibly being Baron Trump “in the outer Oval with a shitload of Adderall.” [33:35]

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5. Trump’s Revenge Tour: GOP Purges & Cult of Personality

Segment: [34:17–40:09]

• Sen. Bill Cassidy & Rep. Thomas Massie Targeted:

  • Trump-led primary challenges against Republicans who criticized him; Cassidy ousted, Massie facing challenge in Kentucky.
  • “It is all about punishing his own critics and the cult of personality and protecting his personal power and not about the party or doing anything with it.” – Tommy Vietor [37:39]
  • “Lame duck” speculation: hosts ponder whether Trump’s influence will fade as he becomes less relevant in future cycles.

• Notable Quote:

  • “Nothing’s breaking the fever in the Republican Party. The party’s broken...all the ones who are left are completely loyal to Dear Leader.” – Jon Favreau [38:54]

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6. Foreign Policy: Iran, Cuba, Greenland – Threats & Distractions

Segment: [43:02–54:54]

• Iran Drama:

  • Trump oscillates between threatening and calling off attacks, referencing calls from Middle East monarchs as rationale.
  • Iran’s resolve, gas prices, and US domestic concerns are all topics.
  • “Trump’s also not just focused on wars far away from home. He's focused on wars right in our own backyard.” – Jon Favreau [47:15]

• Cuba Rumors:

  • Heightened regime change rhetoric, thinly sourced accusations about drones, possible upcoming indictments, and starvation-level blockades called “utterly immoral.”
  • “If we are on the verge of going to war with another country, the evidence would not be laundered through anonymous sources into a daily tip sheet.” – Jon Lovett [49:35]
  • Rubio’s “Maduro tracksuit” photo ridiculed as performative tough-guy cosplay.

• Greenland Redux:

  • Headlines about U.S. attempts to “impose” on Greenland, linked to Trump’s birthday and America’s 250th.
  • “He wants the great at the end of his name...so we just gotta find some chunk of land somewhere.” – Jon Lovett [54:14]
  • “I can't believe we're talking about this again. This sucks. It's so crazy.” – Tommy Vietor [54:32]

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7. Debating “Trump is Too Old” as a Political Argument

Segment: [56:30–68:17]

• Hypocrisy & Utility:

  • Renewed media debate over whether Dems should attack Trump’s age and fitness post-Biden.
  • Jon Favreau (pro) vs. Tommy Vietor (anti) debate, Lovett moderates:
    • Favreau: Dems must hammer Trump’s visible decline and hypocrisy after media obsessed over Biden’s faculties.
    • Vietor: It's less relevant—Trump isn’t running again, and Democrats lack credibility after years defending Biden’s age. Every minute spent on his health is not spent on “actual” stakes (corruption, war, etc.).

• Memorable Exchange:

  • “Trump’s hands are falling off right now…he’s basically melting before our eyes.” – Jon Favreau [57:58]
  • “Trump is not running again, so none of this matters. Democrats have zero credibility on this issue after spending years pretending that they couldn't see Joe Biden's physical decline...” – Tommy Vietor [58:40]

• Conclusion:

  • All agree Trump’s erratic behavior is “priced in” with public opinion. Ultimately, real vulnerabilities lie in Trump’s corruption and disastrous policies, which matter to the most persuadable voters.
  • Lovett sums up:
    • “If you think Donald Trump is too old for the job, I’m sure—sure. He’s too crazy. He’s too old. He’s too selfish…But to make his decline the centerpiece—there’s a limit.” [66:32]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Support for Israel…is just about as popular as Donald Trump in this country.” – Jon Favreau [12:10]
• “This is a Trump second term is a political smash and grab job...” – Tommy Vietor [15:05]
• “If you commit a crime on Trump’s behalf...you might get some compensation for it.” – Jon Favreau [19:29]
• “They’re making money everywhere. This is crazy.” – Tommy Vietor [30:14]
• “Nothing’s breaking the fever in the Republican Party. The party’s broken.” – Jon Favreau [38:54]
• “I can’t believe we’re talking about this again. This sucks. It’s so crazy.” – Tommy Vietor [54:32]
• “Trump’s hands are falling off right now…he’s basically melting before our eyes.” – Jon Favreau [57:58]
• “Trump is not running again, so none of this matters. Democrats have zero credibility on this issue…” – Tommy Vietor [58:40]

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Important Timestamps

• [03:21] – Main show begins, introduction of poll and topics
• [07:29] – Break down of NYT poll, Democratic malaise
• [10:46] – Economy’s impact on approval ratings
• [14:27] – Trump’s $1.776B slush fund segment
• [22:46] – Tina Peters commutation debate
• [29:18] – Trump’s epic day trading + corruption
• [34:17] – Trump’s revenge tour: Cassidy & Massie
• [43:02] – Middle East, Iran war escalation
• [47:15] – Cuba regime change rumors, Rubio’s cosplay
• [53:05] – Greenland “taco” and legacy obsession
• [56:30] – Age/fitness debate: Should Democrats attack?

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Conclusion

This episode distills a chaotic, corruption-laden moment for US politics, with historic polling, brazen Trump escalations, floundering GOP figures, and dangerous foreign policy lurches. The show’s tone is incredulous and biting, but beneath the jokes there's deep concern about the normalization of open corruption, the continuing dangers of cult-like politics, and how the media and Democratic strategists choose their battles. As always, the Pod Save America team urges listeners to stay informed, get involved, and avoid distraction by spectacle—unless spectacle itself is the story.

Transcript

[Jon Favreau]

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[Tommy Vietor]

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[Jon Favreau]

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.

[Jon Lovett]

I'm Jon Levitt.

[Tommy Vietor]

Tommy Vitor.

[Jon Favreau]

On today's show, we're going to break down the new gold standard New York Times poll that shows Democrats opening an 11 point lead in the midterms. Let's have that election today, huh?

[Tommy Vietor]

Please hurry it up.

[Jon Favreau]

We'll also talk about how Trump's revenge tour came for Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy and is coming for Congressman Thomas Massie in Tuesday's Kentucky primary. There's also some fresh new corruption to discuss. Trump's new taxpayer funded $2 billion slush fund is he'll use to reward his favorite criminals and revelations that he's basically been day trading in his spare time. 3,700 stock trades in just three months.

[Tommy Vietor]

That's so many trades.

[Jon Favreau]

So many trades.

[Jon Lovett]

Just bad advice. Just put it in an index fund. Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

Just kidding.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, we also got a new Iran Taco brewing and renewed interest in Cuba and Greenland, which is just one of the reasons we'll also dive into the latest debate over how much Democrats and commentators should should be talking about old man Trump losing his marbles.

[Jon Lovett]

Speaking of old man, check out four eyes over here. He's gonna sit here with this guy's got his fucking. This fucking nerd's got his glasses on.

[Jon Favreau]

I was waiting for you to do. Sorry, I scratched my eye. Don't get used to it, everyone. Hopefully. But first, before we start, tickets For Crooked Con 2026 are on sale now for everyone Come hang with us November 5th through 7th in Washington D.C. for live shows, panels and a big fun party to celebrate and or mourn the 2026 midterms. See, I added mourn because Dan Dan's so superstitious. You know, Cricket's Friends of the Pod Get a subscriber only price. So if you want a subscription loaded with exclusives and a discounted Crooked Con ticket, be sure to join Friends of the Pod. There's all kinds of benefits that come with that. No more ads when you're listening to any of these any of your favorite Crooked Pods. Plus you get exclusive subscriber only shows like Polar Coaster with Dan Pfeiffer, OnlyFriends, which is our extra episode of Sounds like our secret extra episode of Pod Save America that we do and a whole bunch of other stuff, substack newsletters, everything. Get the tickets for crookedcon and all the info you need at crookedcon.com go to crooked.com friends to subscribe to Friends of the Pod and we can't wait to see you at CrookedCon. All right. Donald Trump and the Republican Party have been shitting the bed in nearly every poll for the last few months. But now Nate Cohn and the New York Times have come down from the mountaintop with a stone tablet that confirms how screwed they are. Trump's approval is at 37% in their new poll. That is a record low for him for both terms. In all, New York Times Siena polls and midterm voters also favored Democrats by 11 points, 50 to 39% over Republicans. The president's biggest liability in the poll remains his handling of the cost of living, which his political strategists keep hoping he'll pretend to care about, as evidenced by Monday's White House event on his discount drug website, Trump rx. Let's see how it went.

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[Jon Favreau]

Really sold it, huh? What? Why did that really sold it? Trump RX is the biggest thing in medical.

[Tommy Vietor]

Medical.

[Jon Lovett]

Biggest thing in medical. Biggest thing in medical. You can tell because there's a doctor here.

[Tommy Vietor]

You could tell he didn't like the event because he cut it really short because it kind of looked like.

[Jon Favreau]

Where were they?

[Tommy Vietor]

It looked like TedX Toledo or something. It was just like Joe Gabby in front of a giant screen.

[Jon Favreau]

The whole thing was embarrassing. Mark Cuban was there. Trump RX by the way, it's not a platform for buying medications. You know that. It's just, it's, it's a, it's a facilitator. You go to the website, it directs you to the other websites to buy the drugs. And sometimes it gives you coupons, just redirects you. Yeah, basically. And then, and then Amazon and Cuban's thing. What's, what's his thing called? Cost Plus Drugs. Cost Plus Drugs, you know, they work with the federal government to have some discounts on some extra drugs, but also if you have insurance, doesn't help you, Meaning it's cheaper to buy the drugs if you have insurance, because the insurance covers the drugs. So really it's for people who don't have insurance, sometimes get some discounts on some drugs. So it's not a bad thing, but it's not a.

[Tommy Vietor]

It's not weird.

[Jon Favreau]

It's not. It's certainly not the biggest thing since medical. No. What stood out to you guys in the New York Times poll?

[Jon Lovett]

So whenever we're talking about a poll that looks good for Democrats, you got to go down and find the part where it's terrible for Democrats. And there's a. This was a new one. I think they said, are you satisfied or dissatisfied with the Democratic Party? And I'm used to seeing that voters maybe you're really unhappy with Republicans and planning to vote for Democrats, but then are ultimately not super satisfied with Democrats either. I was surprised to see that 70% of people say they are dissatisfied with the Democratic party and only 5% are very satisfied, which is a third of the number of people that are very satisfied with Trump. And I, I get being, look, Republicans are in power. This is representing people that hate Democrats. It's represented by people that wish Democrats would fight more. It's represented by Democrats. Everyone who has a criticism of the Democrats is represented in that number. But the fact that.

[Jon Favreau]

Where would you be in that when someone asks you? I would be. Be unsatisfied.

[Jon Lovett]

I'm unsatisfied, baby.

[Jon Favreau]

I'm unsatisfied. But then, but then when they gave me the generic ballot thing, I'd be 100%. I'd be right there.

[Jon Lovett]

But just the fact that, like, right now, if this whole big, beautiful country of ours, there's only 5% of people that just love the Democratic Party. Like, we talk a lot about the base. It's like we don't really have, you know, the Trump has a base. That is.

[Jon Favreau]

Who are those people?

[Jon Lovett]

Right? Who are those 5%? I love everything they're doing. Can't wait to see them on tour.

[Jon Favreau]

Like some of, some of the staffers maybe, I don't know, relatives, couple folks on Blue Sky. I don't know. So anyway, that's what stood out to you.

[Jon Lovett]

That stood out to me. And then there was a number on AI that I thought was just interesting that only 16% of people think AI is more good than bad. The vast majority are either undecided or think it's more bad than good.

[Tommy Vietor]

And it comes in a weekend where there's all these commencement addresses where students are booing. The mere mention of AI by the

[Jon Lovett]

speakers, which I love.

[Tommy Vietor]

You can tell there's a something afoot there.

[Jon Favreau]

Yes, there is. Yes, there is. Tommy, what'd you think?

[Tommy Vietor]

I liked that. I liked that. I noticed that 64% in the times poll said they think that going to war with Iran was the wrong decision, including 73% of independence. That is pretty clear cut and it's not going to get better as this thing kind of drags out and the straight of Hormuz remains closed and the price of gas goes up 76% rate. Economic conditions today is only fair or poor. That is quite bad. And then, you know, the glass half full thing of the Democratic Party was 50% say they will vote Democrat, 39% say they will vote Republican in the midterms. So it's one of the better numbers of that nature I think we've seen in a while.

[Jon Favreau]

We've been saying Trump bad for so long now that when there's a poll this bad, it's sort of hard. It's almost like there's a, there's a crying wolf thing.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

Or like, you know, not Trump's. I mean Trump's always been bad. But like this is it for Trump. Things that the walls are closing in. But Nate Cohn points out in his write up of the pol no president's approval rating has been under 38% for more than a few days in the last 17 years according to our average. Now we get Donald Trump and then he realized 17 years is George W. Bush, which just makes us really old. But that is the last president to be this unpopular for this long. Like it is the fact that this is worse than January 6th now for him.

[Tommy Vietor]

Well, the economic indicators are just so bad. I mean, 76% say they're concerned about their personal finance. It's a CBS poll. 67% say they're stressed. Like both of those have been ticked up in the last year. Only 29% in the CBS recent CBS poll said the economy is good, 77% say their income is not keeping up with inflation. So like gas prices are just killing everybody.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, the to me like you look at it too, what's hidden is just how many people have just they're done, right? You get look at this poll and it's basically almost half, not quite half the country. They don't approve on Iran, they don't approve on the economy, they don't approve on cost of living, they don't approve on immigration. They are done. And the number of people who now say Trump has personally made their economic circumstances worse, 44, 44% which has gone up by like 8 points since the last time. Like so it's gone up from about a third of the country, it's rising up to nearly half are no longer saying just, I don't just disapprove like I'm feeling personally that he's not doing what he said he was going to do. So that to me was one other thing that stood out just about, about what's happening with Iran that you know, we a lot of Internet debates about, you know, the anti Semitism and anti Zionism and the Democrats position on Israel. Meanwhile, opposition to economic military support to Israel has gone from 38% to 57% over the last two and a half to three years. Support has gone from 54% to 37%.

[Jon Favreau]

And so a lot same number as Trump's approval.

[Jon Lovett]

And so a lot of hand wringing

[Jon Favreau]

support for Israel, financial aid support for Israel is the, is just about as popular as Donald Trump in this country.

[Jon Lovett]

And so look, this is not an argument that's being lost on the margins and it's not an argument that's being lost based on who gets platformed and who doesn't. There's a huge shift that has happened. I think you can lay that at the feet of Benjamin Netanyahu and Joe Biden and Donald Trump. But the sooner people make this less about the specific individuals they dislike, often with good reason, and more about the deeper shift that is happening, I think the sooner people can actually reckon with what is a real and lasting damage that has happened to America's relationship with Israel.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, I mean Axios read a story this morning about the horrific anti Semitism being directed towards members of Congress and voicemails and threats and all that. And it's horrible. And I would just say that like I do think it's important to separate like virulent antisemitism from people who are pro Israel and making the case for supporting Israel Like, I think we talked about this last week, but like, Josh gottheimer's op ed about antisemitism, and my party has a problem too. Like, it starts with talking about actual anti, Semitism, and then halfway through, it suddenly veers into, oh, and also, Democrats are voting against funding, you know, military aid to Israel, which is now a majority position that should not be in the same op ed.

[Tommy Vietor]

Well, Netanyahu says that he wants to wean off military support for Israel.

[Jon Lovett]

So.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, right. I would say the only other thing that stood out to me is on the generic ballot. There's real movement just within the Times poll. Right. Because every poll is a single poll snapshot in time. But you take a poll over time, and it was D plus 2 to D plus 5 for the beginning part of Trump's term, second term in the Times Siena polls, and now it's D plus 11. It's a big shift. And then when they take it to only almost certain or very likely voters, it's D 14. So even that D 11 is, like, May not be what we ultimately see because, you know, the most motivated voters end up turning out in a midterm more so than in a general election. So that's, it's pretty big. And it's late May, you know, not, not a lot, not a ton of

[Tommy Vietor]

time left, knock on wood.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, well, I mean, look, Trump still has time to become a different person.

[Jon Favreau]

The bigger news from the White House on Monday was the announcement that President Trump's Justice Department is sett Donald Trump's lawsuit against the IRS for $1.776 billion. Get it, get it, get it. That is money that will be taken directly from taxpayers and funneled into a slush fund that apparently exists to pay Trump supporters who were investigated or indicted or convicted during the Biden administration, or I guess none of those things because there's really no guardrails whatsoever. It seems like they did this so Trump wouldn't be attacked for directly pocketing taxpayer dollars. But I'm not sure this move is as, as clever as they think. What about you guys?

[Jon Lovett]

Oh, it's particular.

[Tommy Vietor]

This is a Trump second term is a political smash and grab job where he and his family and the people around him and people who do his bidding just take what they want, get rewarded. They take it from taxpayers, they trade on poly market, they front run the stock market. And I think the fact that Trump is doing this before the midterms just shows that he doesn't give a shit about politics anymore. It's all about money, and it's all about building monuments to himself and ingratiating, you know, just enriching. And they made an end run around the judge in this case, and they just cut a deal with another political appointee that he had named to create the slush fund. And do you think they thought it was cute, saying it was 1.776? Doesn't that just make the whole thing feel, like, made up and arbitrary more than anything else?

[Jon Favreau]

They think it's like, oh, we've got patriotism and America's 250 is coming up. And so if we call it a patriotic fund for patriots, then no one will get mad at us.

[Tommy Vietor]

Shouldn't a fund, fund to pay out restitution to people harmed be based on, like, metrics and not, like, the amount?

[Jon Lovett]

Where's the number coming from? Someone with how many. How much earnings did you lose? It's crazy. When you were at the Capitol on January 6th, when you know, well, I

[Jon Favreau]

will say Congress passed a law to give the Department of Justice basically an unlimited fun for restitution for anyone who sues the federal government. And so that's how they ended up doing this. So it's like, it is a one of those technically legal but extremely corrupt things that we have because of a stupid law that was passed that no one, no one thought to themselves, maybe there'll be an administration that just has the fund being unlimited because the president will sue himself, will sue his own government.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, in fairness to the people that wrote that law, you would also assume that if it were to be so completely and obviously and brazenly abused by a president who's basically just going into the treasury and stuffing his pockets and leaving, that there might be a Congress that would care about that, which we don't have. Just like, to Tommy's point, the judge was like, hey, before this lawsuit by Trump against his own administration, which is unprecedented, that's being administered by his personal attorney, former personal attorney at the Department of Justice. I want you to come in and explain to me how you're actually parties in opposition, how you're not on the same side of this thing.

[Jon Favreau]

And they're like, and the deadline's May 20th. That's when. Now it's May 18th.

[Jon Lovett]

Basically proving the point that the judge was worried about, they have decided to reach a. Reach a deal beforehand. Now, the Justice Department, if it was actually advocating on behalf of taxpayers, the American people, which is what it's supposed to do, it would fight this thing to the bitter end or at the Very least, settle for $0, which has happened in. In not exactly similar, but cases that are akin to this in the past. But instead they're doing this.

[Jon Favreau]

Ken Griffin.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, doing this exactly.

[Jon Favreau]

Settled the same case. His. His taxpayer info was leaked, and he settled it for $0.

[Tommy Vietor]

For $0.

[Jon Favreau]

A public apology from the IRS because

[Jon Lovett]

he didn't pay any. You know, that is something that could have come of this, but it said no. They are proving that they are in cahoots here by doing this kind of a settlement we have, they're using a ridiculous justification based on something that happened in the Obama administration, which even conservative legal scholars have batted down because that had actual specific people who were harmed by an actual specific policy, unlike this. My pitch is James comey. Tish. James Lamonica McIver, Lisa Cook, Jerome Powell. They should all be submitting when this thing comes out. They should put their names in to get money from this fund. And if they do not receive a fair hearing, they should sue the federal government. Like, there are people that are being politically prosecuted by the government. As far as we know publicly, nobody on that list would not be kind of at least potentially included in the people hurt that could receive from this. 1776.

[Jon Favreau]

My pitch is no one gets it. Give us the fucking money back. That's our money.

[Jon Lovett]

Oh, yeah. To be clear, I don't think James Comey should get money from the federal government, but I think we should take this, put this thing through its paces.

[Jon Favreau]

This is fucking. Yeah, well, they're not going to. I mean, Trump appoints the board, it's five people. He gets to hire and fire the board. It's going to be five cronies dishing out money.

[Tommy Vietor]

They don't.

[Jon Favreau]

Look, this is. This thing doesn't even have to be like, oh, and here was my case and it was tried incorrectly. Like, someone's just can go to fudgeing whoever Todd Blanche puts on the commission and be like, hey, I want $10,000 because I donated to the president, and I'm mad that Joe B. I sent the FBI after me. Do you have proof of that? No, but I just know they were watching me.

[Tommy Vietor]

It's crazy.

[Jon Lovett]

I mean, like, this is. It's just. They're at the point where they're just saying, we're going to take money from

[Jon Favreau]

the treasury, give it to whoever, give

[Jon Lovett]

it to our friends.

[Jon Favreau]

Particularly people just don't care, who are maybe criminals. To let everyone else know that if you commit a crime on Trump's behalf, not only do you not go to jail, but Perhaps you might get some compensation for it. Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

But he was asked at the press conference today, could this potentially go to people who committed violence in January 6 he said, oh, it's going to be up to the committee. Absolutely. Those people would be eligible. Could totally receive money from this fund.

[Tommy Vietor]

And he pretends he doesn't know about it. It's like, okay.

[Jon Favreau]

Also, it's a, it's a, it's a danger going forward too as we're heading into 2028 and, and Donald Trump and J.D. vance or whoever the it is, tries to stay in the White House after they lose an election and a bunch of people do their bidding for them to help them out. What do you think they're going to think? They're going to be like, well, if he stays in there and I help him out, I'm going to be okay. I'm going to get a pardon, might get paid. Great.

[Jon Lovett]

You guys don't like my idea that James Comey tries to get into that fund. Come on.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, I mean, I, I see what you're saying.

[Jon Favreau]

I think he should write out the

[Tommy Vietor]

amount he wants to on in shells. Yeah, yeah. Any shell based crime should apply.

[Jon Favreau]

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[Jon Favreau]

Speaking of Trump allies getting away with crimes, what do you guys make of Jared Polis, Governor of Colorado Democrat, commuting the prison sentence of election denier Tina Peters. She is the former county clerk from Mesa County, Colorado. She was in jail for orchestrating a security breach of her county's voting system. Trump has been publicly and privately pressuring Polis to pardon her completely. They also tried to, like, transfer her from state prison to federal prison so that Trump could pardon her. Didn't do that. But now Polis has commuted her sentence. She was sentenced to nine years. He cut it to four and a half years with parole next month.

[Tommy Vietor]

I have to be honest. I know this is not a great answer for the purposes of a talk show. I just couldn't give less of a shit. I know people are like, outraged about this. I read JVL's long piece on this. I don't give a shit. I don't care. I have so much to be outraged or to worry about. I just can't even get myself to engage with this person.

[Jon Favreau]

I might even go a step further. I think polis might have done the

[Tommy Vietor]

right thing by cutting her sentence down.

[Jon Lovett]

Wow. I gotta go. Excuse me, boys. If you need me, I'll be at the fucking bulwark where the real libs are now.

[Ad Read / Advertiser]

Go on.

[Jon Favreau]

I'm not, I don't feel strongly. I'm more in time closer to Tommy's camp. But like here's the thing. She was sentenced to nine years, right? She's so she's a non violent first time offender. And three appellate judges who were appointed by a Democrat, they were Democratic judges, they all just ruled that they threw out the sentence, the nine year sentence. So that was never going to happen. And the reason they threw it out is because they thought that the judge basically in giving her a nine year sentence as opposed to a smaller sentence, violated her free speech rights. Because the judge basically said the reason I'm making your sentence longer is because you spouted election conspiracy theories, which is a horrible thing to do. Spouting election conspiracy theories. But that is protective first Amendment speech. I think we have to be consistent. Well then there are free speech. But anyway.

[Jon Lovett]

But hold on, hold on. I appreciate that, but we understand that if someone were to say hit somebody with their car and then publicly say that bitch deserved it, that is free speech. You have the right to say that. But it does potentially inform the sentence.

[Jon Favreau]

Sorry, does it?

[Jon Lovett]

Of course it does. Of course we, we allow remorse in people's motivations and feelings about the crimes they committed. What they've learned from it. That's the.

[Jon Favreau]

Well, she was, she was. I mean, but the no remorse thing was already factored in because she didn't. She, she was not remorseful.

[Jon Lovett]

Right.

[Jon Favreau]

When she was sentenced. But that's. He didn't say you didn't show remorse. He said it's because you have these, these theories. I just say this, I'm just saying

[Jon Lovett]

that not just first a. That there are. We take people's motivations and expressions. I agree that people have the right to believe elections are stolen. I'm just saying it's a little bit more than just the first. Continue. Sorry.

[Jon Favreau]

I guess I'm saying if we believe that there is an incarceration problem in this country and that people are incarcerated for too long and that prison is, it is a deterrent and yes, people should be jailed and they should be kept from society. But that unusually long sentences are bad, especially for first time nonviolent offenders. Like, like don't we have to extend that belief to people whose political beliefs we detest?

[Jon Lovett]

So I would say the answer is we should allow a process to play out that she would have been re sentenced. Why is, why did this become a big public controversy? It is because the president states is publicly pressuring the governor of Colorado to commute Tina Peter sentence. Now look, I am sure Jared Polis would say that the pressure had nothing to do with it. Obviously the fact that Donald Trump was threatening Colorado unless he did something. Right. Donald Trump was saying this woman should be pardoned. He is saying it's some kind of pressure pushback against Trump, that it's only a commutation. I like she has kind of done the bare minimum of, of acknowledging that what she did was wrong. But if you go to her Twitter feed, her allies were saying recently, as I believe last week, I have to go look the exact timing that if Trump, that if, that if Tina Peters isn't released, Trump should invade the state of Colorado. It is a nonviolent.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, I mean I don't think that should happen.

[Jon Lovett]

Well, right. But it just, it goes to like look, the reason somebody who even commits a. Look, there are a lot of first time offenders who do something that are part of a, that are part of something so dangerous that you have to say, wait a second, yes, it's a nonviolent offense, but it goes to the core of what we are as a society, the safety of our democracy. And so he has given into that pressure from Trump rather than let the process play out. So that I think is a huge problem. I don't know that we'd be having this conversation if Donald Trump hadn't personally intervened to try to get the governor to do something. And then it seems as though he did it.

[Tommy Vietor]

After listening to this thoughtful debate, I

[Jon Favreau]

still don't give a shit.

[Tommy Vietor]

You know, I might care less actually than when we say I'm just kidding. It is interesting.

[Jon Favreau]

I would say that it's. Yeah, it's more interesting to me in that like I think that, I think he might have done the right thing. I do think I would like to hear Jared Polis answer the question. Why didn't you just wait for the re sentencing of the three appellate judges? Like what made you not want to just wait for their decision if they were going to throw out the sentence anyway? I would like to know that question.

[Jon Lovett]

I'd also say too, that The Republican prosecutor was against this and said that you should talk to the people that were impacted by Tina Peters schemes before you'd make this decision.

[Jon Favreau]

Because of a prosecutor. Well, sure, that's how prosecutors are, but community.

[Jon Lovett]

But the.

[Jon Favreau]

There's also a defendant who pled guilty to almost the same charges in the Georgia RICO case and was sentenced no time in probation.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, I mean, look, there's all kinds of unfairnesses and unequal application of sentences all across the country all the time. Like, yeah, that if that were the case, you'd go and say, oh, well, there's somebody else who was given less. You can commute most. Most sentences that way. But. But I think, look, in this one,

[Jon Favreau]

it wasn't just her. He commuted, like, you know, it was like, 35 or 50 commutations or something like that in the same day.

[Jon Lovett]

I think he has to answer for whether or not he gave into Trump's political pressure. And we are in a moment where, like, Donald Trump is threatening elections again, like, this is a grave threat to the Republic. Why does our generosity, our sense of justice, our empathy turn for Tina Peters when there are so many others who have. Who deserve it? That's all.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, and I don't think it should. I don't think it should. I don't think we should be generous or empathetic at all. I think we should just be like, what is the standard? Like, is there a process to reach the decision and did it meet a standard? I do think that, like, criticizing Polis for it is completely fine. Like, you can criticize him for it. You can say it's fine. Some people are. And people who I like in politics, too, and support are, like, calling for his impeachment over this. And I'm like, I don't. I just. I do not think it rises to the level of.

[Tommy Vietor]

Everybody's at a nine all the time these days.

[Jon Favreau]

I can't get there. I can get there. I can get. I can get to like your criticism for sure. I can't get to. He shouldn't be impeached over this. I don't know if you guys saw that. Trump's latest financial disclosures show that he and or his financial advisors made more than 3,700 stock trades in the first quarter of this year, bought $1 million each in companies with business before his administration, like Nvidia, Oracle, Microsoft, Boeing, and Palantir, which he bought right before he praised the company on Truth Social in a post that, if you recall, even included the company's ticker symbol. Now, I know this may look suspicious, but the White House did say that Trump's assets are in a blind trust managed by his children. So there are, quote, no conflicts of interest. Seems fine. Right?

[Jon Lovett]

This is.

[Tommy Vietor]

Did they really? I thought there was no blind trust. I thought they'd already previously said there was no blind. Either way, managed by your children.

[Jon Favreau]

It's a blind trust.

[Tommy Vietor]

That doesn't. Yeah, that's not how blind trust works. Again, this is part of the political smash and grab job. I mean, they're making money everywhere. It's. This is crazy. Like. So Bloomberg reported Trump had trades that involved Tesla, Nvidia, Apple, Meta, Visa City, Boeing, Qualcomm, and Georgia. Top executives from all of those companies were on his trip to Beijing to meet with Chinese President Xi Jinping. So you don't think he's getting insider information, having that access, talking to them, cutting deals with them? He. What the. Some of the stock trades included up to 680 grand worth of Eli Lilly.

[Jon Favreau]

Right.

[Tommy Vietor]

As the administration was preparing policies that would benefit their GLP1 business, he took a huge position, a couple huge positions in Nvidia right before they announced major news. There was a 1 to 5 million dollars position a week before they announced a partnership with Meta. Then there was a half a million to a million dollar position a week before the Commerce Department announced some, you know, determinations to do with Nvidia. They're buying and selling intel stock, which the US government took a 10% stake in the company. This is insanity.

[Jon Favreau]

This is such a coincidence.

[Tommy Vietor]

Paul Pelosi somewhere is like, what the fuck, man? I could have been doing this so much better.

[Jon Lovett]

Like, like we're sort of pat every sing. Well, Jesus, I'm like, Jim Cramer now. Do you see the clip of Jim?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, he just glitched out.

[Jon Favreau]

Can we drop it in here? Let's drop it in the Kramer clip.

[Jon Lovett]

The President's been trading some intel in the quarter. Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. Got nothing to say.

[Ad Read / Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Jon Lovett]

All right. Don't worry, we're not having technical difficulties here, everybody. What's funny about the Jim Cramer clip is that it's like people are like, oh, wow, he's so. He's stammering because he can't figure out what to say about this. But when I was watching, I was like, is he stammering because he can't figure out to say about this, or is he making a joke about how it's so beyond the pale, but he doesn't want to be critical of Trump in this moment? Like, I didn't know what what are we?

[Tommy Vietor]

What are we?

[Jon Lovett]

Why is he stammering? He knows what's going on.

[Jon Favreau]

But get in Jim Kramer's head.

[Jon Lovett]

But we're. No, no. Live and rent free inside of Jim Cramer's head. But the, but the, like the bra. We're at a new level of brazen corruption because every step along the way nobody has stopped him to get to this point. Right. Like he can't. The thing that I find stunning about all this is that there's no like the level of brazenness is going up, but the dollar amount isn't always. It's like, why are we doing 500 grand stock trades, billion dollar crypto theft. And the watches. Like why, like why?

[Tommy Vietor]

You know what I mean? Like, that bothers me too.

[Jon Lovett]

It just, it's just all of.

[Jon Favreau]

It's like left over from the old world when you had to just do corruption. Like the watches, remember the hotel room, we're getting you the Trump phones, but they're not coming.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, that part doesn't make sense. But the aggregate stock trades was a range between 211 and $687 million. So that's a pretty good quarter.

[Jon Favreau]

It's also like the, just the volume of trading. Bloomberg interviewed this guy, Eric Dayton, who's the president, manager, director at the wealth alliance, and he said, I'm baffled. In the 40 plus years of my time on Wall street, this is an unusual amount of trading by any standards. We need to see the actual trades, try and understand why anyone would want to do that much trading.

[Jon Lovett]

So this is like the practical, like the practical way in which this is being done. Like is there a team that is doing this Is it right? Sons through their, like it feels like they've got like, like Christopher Moltisante trying to like push Webistics. Like he's got like some back office in New Jersey somewhere with computers.

[Tommy Vietor]

Baron Trump in the outer oval with a shitload of Adderall.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, just like minority reporting it. Like I can see the future. I know what's going to happen at the Commerce meeting next week. I know the new. I have the BLS down.

[Jon Favreau]

That's just because he's got the briefing book.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, but again, they took like seven transactions related to Boeing. One was between one to five million dollars. Like the biggest deliverable of the China trip was to get the Chinese to buy a bunch of Boeing planes. And by the way, the announcement was so underwhelming that the stock went down because they did a shitty job.

[Jon Favreau]

Which they'll use as proof that see we see it wasn't a good announcement.

[Jon Lovett]

It's like, yeah, you.

[Tommy Vietor]

You thought it was tried to trade on inside information. It just turns out you suck at the diplomacy. Like, that was the problem.

[Jon Favreau]

You're. You're good at the crimes, you're bad at diplomacy.

[Tommy Vietor]

Got to deliver on that show.

[Jon Favreau]

All right, so Trump's also doing his best to drag the Republican Party down with him. On Saturday, he sent yet another message that dissent will not be tolerated when his chosen primary challenger, Congresswoman Julia Letlow, took out Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy, whose sin was voting to convict Trump in the January 6 impeachment trial. Cassidy went down in flames. He got third in Louisiana's primary, the first time an incumbent senator has come in lower than second place since 1944. Trump's next target is Thomas Massie, who he's trying to unseat in Tuesday's Kentucky primary. Massie has been the strongest and kind of the only Republican in the House, breaking with Trump on Epstein, Iran, and the big, beautiful bill. Trump has been posting about Massie nonstop. I think right before he recorded, he did like a video from the Oval, which is very legal and normal to just. To just tell people to vote against Thomas Massie.

[Jon Lovett]

We're gonna run the midterms on the Hatch Act, I assume, right?

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, that's. Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

Is he.

[Jon Favreau]

As he's grabbing the $2 billion for his slush fund and then trading on Nvidia and Boeing. Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

Pete Hegseth was doing an event in Kentucky today.

[Jon Favreau]

His personal capacity.

[Tommy Vietor]

In his personal capacity. And then Trump announces that he's delayed an imminent military assault on Iran. That was supposed to happen tomorrow.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. What was Pete going to do?

[Tommy Vietor]

This? Seems like bad timing.

[Jon Favreau]

Feels like you need him for that.

[Tommy Vietor]

Maybe you don't, maybe you doubt, maybe you don't. Who's going to drink the booze?

[Jon Favreau]

Too early to say what will happen in the Massie race, but it certainly seems like Massey himself is staying loose. Here he is on Sunday doing his best Trump impression.

[Jon Lovett]

Whenever I call him, I gotta schedule a minute for the first thing he tells me every time I call him.

[Ad Read / Advertiser]

Massey, you're a sharp cookie.

[Jon Lovett]

You went to mit. You know, my professor was. My uncle was Professor John G. Trump. He was at MIT 41 years. It's a record. And, you know, I went to Wharton, which is basically the hoax school in the world.

[Tommy Vietor]

This is terrible.

[Ad Read / Advertiser]

Even better genetics than you.

[Jon Lovett]

I didn't realize how long.

[Jon Favreau]

I kind of want him to lose now. That was brilliant. I was rooting for him until just then.

[Jon Lovett]

Listen, he's going for it.

[Jon Favreau]

You know, put that, be wary of the Trump impression. You know, don't, don't do it unless you really feel good.

[Tommy Vietor]

You got to nail it.

[Jon Lovett]

There's just too many people doing it, and it's too, too, it's too big a target anyway.

[Jon Favreau]

Anyone have thoughts on the primary? Yeah, look, I mean, how big of

[Tommy Vietor]

a deal on Bill Cassidy? Like that guy, you know, like he, he thought he appease Maga by voting for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. And ended up kind of like selling his soul and his credentials as a doctor and it being worst of all worlds. And he knew better. And we know it because he told us as much before he flip flopped. And so would I rather have him in the Senate than his replacement? Yes, I would. But ultimately, I don't think it'll make a big difference. Thomas Massie is a different story. Like, he's the reason we have the Epstein files, because he worked with Roana to get him released. He's a principled vote against wars and militarism and lots of other things. I don't agree with him on everything. And on, you know, like, you don't share the same worldview. I don't send out Christmas cards with me and my kids with machine guns like I think he did one time, but, you know, it would be a big loss. And I think it tells you everything you need to know about Donald Trump's political worldview that he will not lift a finger to help his party build, but he will take down anyone who criticizes him. It is all about punishing his own critics and the cult of personality and protecting his personal power and not about the party or doing anything with it.

[Jon Lovett]

Right. I think he's far more passionate about defeating his enemies than he is about helping his friends. Yeah. With Cassidy, you go back to that, to him approving RFK Jr and accepting his fake assurances in his private meetings, pretending that RFK didn't believe what he obviously believed. And like, no, you can't. You can't sell half your soul. He doesn't work like that. They're not divided. They're not divisible in that way. And so these guys that end up being reluctantly for Trump, they don't. They're not better politicians, they're just worse whores, you know, so, you know, good riddance, I suppose.

[Jon Favreau]

I will say this is. There's a lot being made because we had Indiana and then Cassidy and then. And then Massie, but this is sort of the last gasp of this.

[Tommy Vietor]

I mean, it's Louisiana for Indiana, too.

[Jon Favreau]

Well, what do you expect? This is Trump's last midterms.

[Tommy Vietor]

Right.

[Jon Favreau]

And do we think he's going to spend. He's going to be spending time in 28 going around doing primary challenges? Maybe. But, like, also, does it lose its force at some point? Right, like that Trump's like an. He's already a lame duck. Like, he clearly has the juice to do it now. But as we get to 28 and then beyond that, like, what is this is.

[Tommy Vietor]

It's a.

[Jon Favreau]

What did we learn from that? Yeah, exactly.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

He's this vindictive prick who only cares about himself. And, you know, and I think we

[Jon Favreau]

also learned that, like, you know, nothing's breaking the fever in the Republican Party. The party's broken. And you've got to massively. You've just got to defeat them at every level because all the ones who are left are completely loyal to Dear Leader. And that's about that. And I do think also he might have. He might have fucked himself a little because now you got angry. Cassidy, who's still got votes left to take between now and the end of the year, Massey Massey loses. Tillis has already been doing it, and so they can make his life more difficult. And I do wonder now, between now and November, if this makes it, like, harder for Republicans to break away from Trump even though primaries are over because they worry that they're going to get punished. I don't know. Probably.

[Jon Lovett]

It's just. Look, it remains sort of extraordinary, right? Bill Cassidy could not persuade his own voters, people that have voted for him multiple times in the past, to stick with him once Trump turned. Right. It just tells you something about the voters showing up in these Republican primaries and what they want. And there was no the fact that Cassidy was a vote for impeachment and that Trump had fully turned against him, there was nothing he could do to convince them that he was worth saving. Nothing.

[Jon Favreau]

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[Jon Favreau]

It's been a bit since we talked about the the stalemate in Iran. Trump posted on Sunday that quote, the clock is ticking for Iran to make a deal, but by Monday the clock apparently restarted. Trump posted that the US Quote will not be doing the scheduled attack of Iran tomorrow, AKA Tuesday, the day. You're listening to this because the leaders of Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the UAE asked him to hold off due to serious negotiations that are now taking place. Trump did add that the US Is prepared to attack Iran, quote, on a moment's notice, in the event that an acceptable deal is not reached. On Monday, it was also reported that Iran sent its latest peace proposal through Pakistan to the US which the White House seems likely to reject, even as the Pentagon and Israel are, quote, engaged in intense preparations, the largest since the cease fire took effect for the possible resumption of attacks against Iran, according to the New York Times. What do you make of the back and forth here, Tommy? Like, any. Any chance that Trump's latest threat to destroy Iran got them closer to a deal? Scared them into it?

[Tommy Vietor]

I don't think so. But first, could we just talk about these statements where he name checks a bunch of autocrats? They're so weird. You don't have to do that. But he's always like, on behalf of the great and highly respected Field Marshal Assam Munir, I decided not to, like, exterminate Iran.

[Jon Favreau]

You know what, the delivery date for that plane is supposed to be the fourth, but he once moved up for his birthday for the Qatari. So he wants the Qataris to get that plane there fast.

[Jon Lovett]

It's the same way that he does the, like, you know, personality stuff with Xi. Like, he enjoys the idea that governing doesn't involve anyone except the people in the room. Like, there's no people deciding, right. They're just great men making big decisions together at a collaboration and friendship. And so, yeah, he's not doing it for the good of the country. He's doing it because he was. He has this great rapport with these

[Tommy Vietor]

leaders, the Pakistanis in particular. Like, they cut a big crypto deal with World Liberty Financial. So that's why he likes them. But, like, you do five seconds of research into the great and respected Field Marshal and you find the UK authorities have charged him with torture and crimes against humanity. That's a guy he's like name checking. But regardless, sounds like a picture you'd like. Of course, I don't think they're any closer to a deal. I don't know. I assume we're in the same place. Iran thinks they have a lot of leverage because they can close the Strait of Hormuz. They know Trump is weakened politically. They know that he wants out of this. He doesn't want to go back to war. And so they're going to wait for the United States to walk back some of the more maximalist positions or just get sick of this shit and move

[Jon Lovett]

on just imagine sort of some sort of Iranian underling kind of going down the stairs into the. Into the bunker where the. Where the. The recuperating Ayatollah is, like, pointing at the Sienna numbers and saying, like, look, look, we got him. We got him right where we're going. Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

And, you know, cross tabs Iran, there's all these leaks still. Like, Iran reportedly has up to 75% of its missile stockpile. All of its. Basically, almost all of its infrastructure along the Strait of Hormuz is operational. For them to shut it down so they could always make things worse.

[Jon Favreau]

Strait of Hormuz also now has its own Twitter account.

[Tommy Vietor]

Does it?

[Jon Favreau]

That.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, like Carl the Fog in San Francisco. No.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. They're calling it, you know, something more official, but it's like the Iranian government.

[Tommy Vietor]

Oh, is the Iranian government doing.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, yeah, no, they're doing.

[Tommy Vietor]

In Lego.

[Jon Favreau]

They've made. No, no, they just made an official Twitter account. So we can get updates from the street.

[Tommy Vietor]

Just personifying the street, I guess.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

Kind of cool with, like, sort of

[Jon Lovett]

red, green, yellow,

[Jon Favreau]

lot of red.

[Jon Lovett]

Like, sort of when you get the, like, SIG alerts in, like, California traffic, it's like, oh, my God, the straight. Our moose is red today. Fuck. I'm going to be like, honey, I'm going to be late.

[Jon Favreau]

I'm going to have traffic helicopters over reporting on the nines and fives. NBC reported last week that the administration is considering changing the name of the war from Operation Epic Fury to Operation Sledgehammer. We have to get a little more phallic again or something else entirely in order to, quote, effectively restart the clock with Congress. Is that how it works? New operation name. Now they can't get you. No, now you can do whatever wars you want.

[Tommy Vietor]

Like, it's. I love this idea that, you know, the World War Powers act is such a weak piece of legislation that you can just do, like, a bureaucratic tweak and get around it. I mean, it's just crazy. It's obviously the same conflict. Like, changing the name doesn't matter. Every president since Nixon has claimed the War Powers act is unconstitutional. They all hate it. But it was enacted over Nixon's veto in 1973. And so Congress has leverage here. If they want to use it, Republicans refuse to use it. Maybe they'll man up now, but we'll see.

[Jon Favreau]

Trump also wants us to know that he's not just focused on wars far away from home. He's focused on wars right in our own backyard. Still, there have been a bunch of rumblings about the long rumored regime change move in Cuba. Sources told the AP last week that the administration is looking to indict former Cuban President Raul Castro, brother of Fidel, even though he's no longer in power. Then over the weekend, Mark Caputo reported that According to classified US intel, Cuba has over 300 drones and has recently considered launching them against US military targets and even Key West, Florida, which could serve as a handy pretext for an invasion. Cuba's current president, Miguel Diaz Canel, responded on social media on Monday writing the quote, cuba poses no threat, nor does it have aggressive of plans or intentions against any country, including the U.S. and that a U.S. attack would, quote, trigger a bloodbath. What'd you make of the Cuba stuff? It seems like he's. Seems like he's gearing up.

[Tommy Vietor]

You want to kick us off on Cuba?

[Jon Lovett]

I don't think we should go to war with Cuba right now. In the Times poll, there was a question that was something like, when do you believe the US should launch war against countries that have not attacked us? And it was like, 70% are like, don't do that.

[Tommy Vietor]

Never.

[Jon Lovett]

Don't do that. Unless someone has attacked us, we know we shouldn't go to war.

[Jon Favreau]

I don't think it's a good idea.

[Jon Lovett]

Whatever Trump had come to believe about killing Soleimani, getting Maduro out of Venezuela and how fun that was, he sees the polls showing how unpopular the war in Iran is. I hope that that has at the very least chastened them from their kind of idea that they can be regime topplers without it kind of consuming their politics. But it's terrifying. It's terrifying to imagine that they were going to see what they're doing in the Middle east and decide that it needs to be brought closer to home.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, I mean, look, I read the story. It was such an obvious pretext to me, but, I mean, look, I don't doubt the intel. Like, is Cuba acquiring drones? Well, it's 20, 26 in every military has or is acquiring drones. That would be like not getting rifles or, you know, machine guns in World War I. So it also says, like, the intelligence suggests the Cubans would respond to a US attack with drones, which, again, I

[Jon Favreau]

was going to say this Axio story, you have to get way down to reality check, which is three paragraphs, four paragraphs from the bottom till you find out that, oh, by the way, the intel is that it's retaliatory.

[Tommy Vietor]

This is not a preemptive strike on Miami. This is what they would do if we attacked them? Because we all know if they did a preemptive strike on Miami, that would be suicidal because you would fucking flatten the country. So I also just would like to

[Jon Lovett]

think that if we are on the verge of going to war with another country, that the evidence would not be laundered through anonymous sources into a daily tip sheet, that perhaps there'd be more information.

[Tommy Vietor]

Well, Jude Miller would like a word with you, pal. Was.

[Jon Lovett]

But that was the New York Times.

[Jon Favreau]

Sorry.

[Tommy Vietor]

You're right. You're right. I do think though, every indicator light is flashing when it comes to possible regime change operations because there's this leak which creates the pretext of this being an imminent threat. There was CIA Director John Ratcliffe just went to Cuba and had this message from Trump. There is the indictment, the rumored indictment of Raul Castro, which was a very important part of the case for why they had to do what they did against Maduro, which was extract him from Venezuela and bring him to New York for prosecution. There's been all these reports of a huge increase of intelligence overflights by the US So I would be very worried if I were a Cuban official. And meanwhile, if you're a Cuban human being or citizen like the United States has a blockade on, that's allowed no oil and gas into your country and people are starving to death. They have one to two hours of electricity a day. Hospitals can't operate. Like what we are doing is criminal. It is absolutely evil. You're starving a population of people to death. And the most likely outcome is that the government collapses and there is a mass exodus in migration crisis to the United States, which MAGA has told us they do not want to happen. I don't understand what these lunatics are fucking doing here, but it is just, it is utterly immoral. Just a horrific, horrific policy right now.

[Jon Favreau]

I think that the insane thought running through Donald Trump's head is his response to launching a disastrous war in Iran that is unpopular, that has cost us billions of dollars, that has spiked gas prices. Everywhere is, I gotta launch a war that's more popular and easy. I gotta go back to the Venezuela model. Because they all think that Venezuela was some big fucking success, right? And so it's like, that was an easy one. So I got to get my mojo back by going to invade Cuba now that Iran's a big fucking mess. Very possible.

[Jon Lovett]

Insane. Did you see Rubio in his Maduro tracks?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yes. Like it's all just a game. It's all just trolling. It's all content.

[Jon Favreau]

I don't think it was that flattering.

[Jon Lovett]

No, I think it was. I, I talked this in love or leave it, but I do think Maduro wore it better. But the, I'm not even joking. Like, it just looked more comfortable there. Like Rubio looked like the suit was wearing him. But I was looking at that. Like, why are you doing this?

[Jon Favreau]

Like, forget, like, he was a little posed too.

[Tommy Vietor]

It wasn't like something, it was a lot posed.

[Jon Lovett]

A lot posed. But, but like I was looking at, I was like, what, what are we supposed to, okay, look, what is this meant to. But boy, you're tough. You're wearing the same clothes. Like, who, what, what, what was the message? And I, I now I'm like, oh, was this about how, how like what happened? We'll do this again. Like we're going to do this. Is it a Cuba thing? Like, what the fuck was the outfit, what am I meant to take from this photo? Stephen Chung?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, that's a good question. I agree with you. I do think Trump wants to change the channel and kind of get us onto a new topic that is in Iran. That makes him sound tough again. I do think though that Cuba falls in the Venezuela, Iran, Cuba, axis of evil, bucket of like neocons telling him, sir, you'll be a historic figure, sir, if you make big changes here, right. And he's down, it will gargle your balls. Well, I mean, you don't need to do something else to get that. That's already happening. That's priced in. But you know, he's also in Florida surrounded by a bunch of very like, rich, hardline, you know, Miami Cubans who, you know, have been waiting for this for a long time and you know, want their real estate assets back on the island. So I don't, I hope I'm wrong. Maybe he'll cubano or you know, like whatever Wall street will make up a new term for it. Stupid. But, but like it does seem like it, it's nerve wracking.

[Jon Favreau]

Well, if we, if he doesn't do Cuba, then there's always Greenland. Remember the critical national security issue of Greenland. A quick refresher that back in January, after threatening to invade, Trump did a, did a taco. It announced the, quote, framework of a future deal with respect to Greenland and in fact the entire Arctic region. Well, the New York Times is now reporting that the negotiations around that framework have Greenlandic officials, quote, worried as U.S. proposals, quote, amount to a major imposition on Greenland's sovereign. Yeah, I bet. Greenland specifically concerned about Trump's June 14 birthday and July 4 as upcoming dates where Trump's attention could swing back around to them as he starts thinking about his legacy. Unfucking real. What do you think? Are those concerns well founded? What do you think about the Greenlandic concerns expressed in the New York Times piece?

[Jon Lovett]

Let's just pause and sit in the idea that the Danes are concerned that Trump will get more bellicose around his birthday. That's where we're at.

[Tommy Vietor]

That's what we do.

[Jon Favreau]

Turning 80. You never know. America's turning 250.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

They're not going to be, they're not going to be content with just the fireworks.

[Jon Lovett]

No, no.

[Tommy Vietor]

You're going to want to get some Greenland.

[Jon Lovett]

Somebody's got to give him a little. He wants to, he. Look, he wants the great at the end of his name. He knows that when the, when the, when the Russians got more territory, they got to be the great. So we just got to find some fucking chunk of land somewhere.

[Jon Favreau]

Get me Cuba, get me Greenland. Just something make Venezuela the 51st state.

[Jon Lovett]

He's just something. We got to expand the map.

[Tommy Vietor]

I can't believe we're talking about this again. This sucks. It's so crazy. It's like, do you guys see the, the Tim Dillon bit? We said we're not the high school bully anymore. We're the weird kid who may or may not have a gun. We're not the quarterback, we're not the jock. We're the college kid who keeps going to high school parties, might be a pedophile freaked out by us and has a gun. That is us as a country. Good work, everybody.

[Jon Favreau]

That is it. That is it.

[Jon Lovett]

I think we made a mistake electing this guy.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. Well,

[Jon Lovett]

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[Jon Favreau]

Now that we just talked about Trump potentially trying to conquer several additional nations, possibly because it would look cool on a map, it's probably a good time to mention that there's been a revival of the debate about Trump's age and fitness for the job and whether Democrats should be making a bigger deal about it. Lauren Negan at the Bulwark and Jonathan Lemire at the Atlantic are both out with big pieces arguing that it's time for Democrats to make it a bigger issue. We get subscriber questions about this a lot. We also see a lot of folks on social media making the argument that if you're not making as big of a deal about Trump's age as you were about Biden's, you're being hypocritical. So in the spirit of open dialogue, I guess we're going to debate it.

[Tommy Vietor]

Let's debate it.

[Jon Lovett]

Let's debate it.

[Jon Favreau]

Austin. Austin's bringing out a Vote Save America mug with three positions in it.

[Jon Lovett]

So I'm not going to. Let's. I'm not going to look to. We all. Let's all open at the same time.

[Jon Favreau]

Pro. Meaning it's something we should talk about more. Anti. You can guess what that means. And moderator.

[Jon Lovett]

Okay, great. I am the moderator.

[Tommy Vietor]

I am anti.

[Jon Lovett]

Wow.

[Jon Favreau]

I'm pro.

[Tommy Vietor]

Bitch about to get fucking owned.

[Jon Lovett]

Can I get a little, like, NBC music tonight? All right, I'll be moderating this debate. John, you will be arguing that Democrats must make a greater issue out of Donald Trump's age. Tommy will take the Congress. You have the opening statement. You have 30 seconds.

[Tommy Vietor]

Did.

[Jon Favreau]

Did Joe Biden lose the last election or have to drop out of the last election because he was too old?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yes.

[Jon Favreau]

Yes. Was it the biggest concern of every voter everywhere because everyone made a big issue and Republicans made a big issue of his age? Yes. Yep. So Donald Trump's hands are falling off right now. He looks like, he looks like it was like a fucking bad morgue job on his hands before he got in the casket. Sure, he's basically melting before our eyes. He's got all kinds of bruises all over the place. Aaron Rupar's feeds full of it all. It's just purple.

[Tommy Vietor]

Okay.

[Jon Favreau]

Just all. And yet. And yet Democrats are out there just talking about affordability and not talking about the fact that the President. United States is decomposing before our eyes, and Democrats won't talk about it, even though these were the same Democrats that tried to push Joe Biden out of the race.

[Jon Lovett]

Wow.

[Tommy Vietor]

A powerful argument, Tommy, your counter, John, you ignorant slut. I don't want to get in between you and Aaron Rupar's feed and your little handjob issue there with the Trump. Trump. But Trump is not a good one. Trump is not running again, so none of this matters. Democrats have zero credibility on this issue after spending years pretending that they couldn't see Joe Biden's physical decline as he was shuffling around in sneakers and falling over sandbags. Every minute we spend talking about makeup on this decrepit old man's hands is a minute we are not spending, talking about stock trades, the ballroom, Medicare cuts, things that actually matter to people. And yeah, the napping is weird. Admittedly, it's also very funny when the. The White House says that he blinked for 10 seconds.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah, long blinks. These are long blanks.

[Tommy Vietor]

Admittedly, that's weird, but he still does a lot of events. He's out there all the time. He's doing rallies. He looks vibrant. He's a big.

[Jon Favreau]

Looks vibrant. What are you talking about? You can't even stand up.

[Tommy Vietor]

You can't make him a martyr.

[Jon Lovett]

All right, so let me. Let me just throw some questions at each of your directions. I'll start with you, Tommy. You do notice that there's a significant decline in how he communicates from today to how he communicated even four or eight years ago, that his cadence has changed, that he's not as clear, he is more meandering. He's posting all hours of the night. These are things that should be a liability.

[Tommy Vietor]

I think he's always done these things. I think he's always been kind of incoherent since. I think he's always posted. He's never slept.

[Jon Lovett]

But. But I. I'm curious how you would explain the difference. Right. Like he is. Yes, you're right. He has always been this way. But I think it's indisputable that it is all worse. Like, he is rambling more. He is. It's the weave, but the weave is getting worse. Do you think it's getting like he's changing depending on.

[Tommy Vietor]

I think I, I gen like jokes aside, I think I don't know that I notice him that much more rambly than he used to be because I think he's always been rambly the like, he does look tired. He's legitimately falling asleep in events. It's noticeable. The hand stuff is weird. And by the way, they're clearly lying about the hand stuff because they initially they said it was his handshaking hand and then the other hand had the bruising too.

[Jon Favreau]

So he also, he also keeps going to the dentist and no one, dude,

[Tommy Vietor]

how many annual dentist strips Doing a

[Jon Favreau]

lot of dentist strips. Yeah, he's doing a lot of things that no one's telling. No one's telling us why his health is the way it is. And there's no one's asking questions.

[Tommy Vietor]

And there's a doctor's office in the West Wing. So you would only go to Walter Reed or Bethesda or wherever he's going now to get like specialized equipment.

[Jon Lovett]

There's also dental. There's also the dentist's office in the White House. You just got to go to a special dentist. So, Jon, question to you. How would a Democrat who was somebody who defended Joe Biden's ability to run again make this argument without seeming like they're full of shit?

[Jon Favreau]

I was wrong about Joe Biden and I should have said something earlier. And that's what I'm doing this time around because Donald Trump is in bad shape and he should not be leading the country. And any Republican that still supports him and that doesn't want to, you know, pressure the Cabinet to invoke the 25th Amendment, then they are just feeding into this cover up for Donald Trump's age and his dementia and he is just putting us all at risk and Republicans won't do anything about it. And so even though he's not running again, when we go into the midterms, we know that Donald Trump's approval rating is highly correlated with how Republicans are going to do in the midterms. And by talking more about how he has dementia and he is losing his marbles, then we could get his approval even lower and that Democrats can then do better in the midterms.

[Jon Lovett]

Last question for you, Tommy. Joe Biden's age and Joe Biden's disapproval on the economy became linked. The fact that the economy was bad was a sign he wasn't up for the job. The fact that he was up for the job made people doubt that he could fix the economy. We are trying to make an argument that Republicans, we have to win the House and the Senate and that Republicans refuse to tell the truth about Donald Trump. Shouldn't the fact that Donald Trump is decomposing for our eyes, rambling at all hours, falling asleep in meetings, shouldn't we be saying these Republicans won't be honest about that, that who, why are they not telling the truth about this? What are we not knowing about this? Shouldn't we be making this one of the lines of argument that we use when we try to accuse Republicans of not holding Trump accountable?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah. So allow me to flip flop on the issue to respond to your leading question. Clearly they're covering up something, right? Like the guys, the multiple annual doctor visits. Like, this is crazy. It's all pretext. We should push for more information. There is muscle memory here, right? Like, I think if we get people to like a critical, massive concern about this, they can, they will care. I also just, I think Trump will hate it if we call him a sad, sick old man. He would hate that. So just working that in there could be fun.

[Jon Lovett]

Now you, now you argue the other side.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, yeah, no, I'll argue the other side because I think Tommy's best point was he's not running again, like, and so what difference, as Hillary Clinton once said, what difference does it make if, if he's, if he is decrepit, if they are covering something up? He's like, the reason this was a potent argument against Joe Biden is because Joe Biden was asking voters for four more years in office. Donald Trump will never ask voters for four more years in office. He might try to stay. No, he won't. He might try to stay in office, but he's not going to ask voters for four more years.

[Tommy Vietor]

I mean, he might run for a third term. That's not Steve Banner.

[Jon Favreau]

He's going to try to just sit there and be like, I got the military. Just park. Yeah, there's no one's going to let him run. But so he's gonna ask for you. So what is the purpose of, what is the, if we're trying to win a midterm, what is the story we're trying to tell about Donald Trump that is most true. And the story that is most true is what you said at the beginning of this episode, which is this whole term is a smash and grab. He wants to make as much money as he can. He's a megalomaniac who thinks that now he needs this legacy in history where he, like, conquers half the globe and he doesn't give a shit about people. He doesn't give a shit about people, and he's never given a shit about people. And that's a consistent story through time. And whether he has dementia now or he's losing his marbles or not, like, doesn't really matter.

[Jon Lovett]

So I think the way that I would square this is I think that's right.

[Jon Favreau]

Democrats say I'm more passionate about the.

[Jon Lovett]

I know Democrats paid a political price for defending Joe Biden when people had concerns about his age, even after he dropped out, because it came to be evidence that Democrats couldn't be trusted more broadly. And my argument would only be no aid should not be the central argument we make against Donald Trump. But if we can make the fact that Republicans refuse to be honest about not just Trump's corruption and unaccountability and brazen theft, but also just his rambling and crazy nonsense, and you make every time he does that part of a story about how he's unfit, including because he's getting old, then that's part of why these Republicans can't be trusted. That's the best. I'm not the best I can do for you.

[Jon Favreau]

But even that, as you say that, like, you kind of just like, threw in corruption there. But it's like, so he's. He doesn't know what he's doing. He's crazy. But he's also smart enough to be out there stealing all the money.

[Tommy Vietor]

I just think, like, the incoherence is priced in. Like, the, the weave is a thing that's like a joke, but it's also not a joke. You know what I mean? Like, people know he's a goofball. He's all over the place. He says weird shit, but also, like, he's funny. He's big and imposing. He seems sharp at events a lot of times. And, like, the handshake is very odd,

[Jon Favreau]

but, like, it's also weird. It's weird to make an argument that he used to be sharp when we were all saying he's been fucking crazy since he came on the scene in 2016. Yeah, it's weird. It's weird for Democrats to be in the position, be like, you know what? He's just not up for the job. He used to be, but now he's not up for the job.

[Jon Lovett]

I think, look, I think. I don't think anyone should make that. That argument. I think if you go back and look at like, the debates with Jeb Bush versus the debate with Kamala Harris. Like, there's been a crazy line. But even putting that aside, here's the thing that I find very annoying about all this. It's the same kind of practice to, like, obtuseness that some people on our side love to do. Like, how could you say this? If you won't say the same exact thing about Trump that you said about Joe Biden, then, then you're being a hypocrite. As if we can't see the difference between the way Joe Biden looked and the way Donald Trump looks, the fact that Joe Biden was disappearing from the public. Look, if you think Donald Trump is too old for the job, I, I'm, I'm, I'm sure, sure. I don't.

[Jon Favreau]

He's too crazy. He's too old. He's too, he's too selfish. He's too, he's too much of, of a fucking dictator for the job. He's also the most.

[Jon Lovett]

He's also the most accessible president we have ever had. He is on camera every fucking day. He's answering questions every day. And like, he seems vital. Yeah, nuts. Loses the thread. All the ways in which he's terrible and shouldn't be in office. He should be impeached and removed immediately. I'm not in charge of this, but like, to, to act as if there isn't a big difference between the way Donald Trump is aging and the way way Joe Biden is aging is to once again deny what we can see with our own fucking eyes.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, but, yeah, and, but to me, that is like, all beside the point. Even if you can argue that back and forth, whoever thinks Joe Biden was worse or Trump was worse, whatever, but it's again, the question is to what end he is a second term president. If Donald Trump was sitting here saying, I'm going four more years, and we were trying to figure out how to defeat Donald Trump, the two.

[Tommy Vietor]

One end answer is you try to drive down his negativism or you make it an issue that other Republicans need to speak to and suddenly they're vouching for him not being senile or old or whatever. I think we're a long way from here to there.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

And it's also because we would.

[Jon Favreau]

If you had, if you had a choice between what Republicans need to answer for, would you rather it be they're covering up for Donald Trump being too old or they're saying nothing about the fact that he's literally stealing from taxpayers out of their pocket and launched a war that's shot up gas prices.

[Tommy Vietor]

Hand makeup or theft?

[Jon Favreau]

Think you'd rather do that one.

[Jon Lovett]

And, and if he really, why not both?

[Jon Favreau]

Okay, well, you only have so many things that you can say out of your mouth.

[Jon Lovett]

And if it was so clear, right? Like if he was real, like, look, I agree, he's in decline. There's not some magic words that Democrats can use to make something more. They can make it more of an issue, but they can't make it the issue. If Donald Trump was as having the kind of muttering debate that Joe Biden had, I guarantee you it would be a big political issue and it wouldn't be because Chuck Schumer decided it was on some given day.

[Tommy Vietor]

That's a calm. A sad, sick old man.

[Jon Lovett]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

Call him.

[Jon Lovett]

Go to town. Let's go to town.

[Tommy Vietor]

Get a med.

[Jon Favreau]

Figure out if you got the right words.

[Jon Lovett]

I won. Okay.

[Jon Favreau]

Congrats. Good for you. Congrats to our winner, John Lovett. That's our show for today. Dan and I will be back with a new show on Friday. Positive america is a crooked media production. Our show is produced by austin fisher, saul rubin, mckenna roberts and farah safari with reed cherlin, elijah cohn and adrian hill. Our team includes matt de groot, ben heffcote, jordan kantor, charlotte landis, carol pelaviev, david toles, mia kelman, ryan young and naomi sengel. Our staff is proudly unionized with the writers guild of america east.