Trump Agents Handcuff U.S. Senator

Summary

Pod Save America – Episode: "Trump Agents Handcuff U.S. Senator"

Release Date: June 13, 2025
Host/Author: Crooked Media
Guest: Nicole Wallace, Host of MSNBC's Deadline White House

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Introduction

In this episode of Pod Save America, host Jon Favreau welcomes Nicole Wallace, the host of MSNBC's Deadline White House, to discuss the unfolding political turmoil surrounding former President Donald Trump. The conversation dives deep into recent events, including the militarization of Los Angeles streets, Trump's contentious relationships with key figures like Elon Musk and RFK Jr., and the broader implications for American democracy.

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Militarization of Los Angeles and the Handcuffing of U.S. Senator Alex Padilla

The episode kicks off with a critical examination of the recent deployment of 4,800 federalized National Guard troops in Los Angeles, surpassing the combined number previously stationed in Iraq and Syria. Trump claims this move is to assist local law enforcement with immigration protests. However, LAPD Chief Jim McDonald refutes the necessity, stating, "We're nowhere near a level where we'd be reaching out to the National Guard." (02:48)

Despite the LAPD refuting the need, these troops are actively involved in accompanying masked federal agents during extensive raids targeting individuals suspected of lacking proper documentation. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem's aggressive stance during a press conference—where she attempted to intimidate Senator Alex Padilla—ended disastrously when agents physically restrained Padilla as he posed questions.

Nicole Wallace describes the incident as "one of the bleakest days of anchoring" and a "chilling moment" for the nation, highlighting concerns about the erosion of democratic norms and the rising authoritarian tendencies within the administration (07:22).

Notable Quote:

"This was one of the bleakest days of anchoring that I've ever had in the job." — Nicole Wallace (07:34)

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Trump’s Shifting Stance on Immigration

The conversation shifts to Trump's inconsistent policies on immigration. Initially advocating for the deportation of undocumented immigrants, recent actions suggest a flip-flop, particularly concerning long-term residents and workers essential to industries like agriculture. Trump’s contradictory statements, such as claiming he's not targeting leisure workers while simultaneously conducting raids, raise questions about the administration's true objectives and the influence of advisors like Stephen Miller.

Nicole Wallace emphasizes the disconnect between Trump's rhetoric and policies, noting that public support for deporting non-violent, long-term immigrants remains low, with only "less than 20% of Americans support deporting people who have been here for many years without committing a crime." (13:58)

Notable Quote:

"What's happening in LA is a trauma for the community, for the state, but it's reverse engineered to achieve all of these aims that Trump had in the first term but wasn't allowed to do." — Nicole Wallace (13:58)

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California's Defense and Gavin Newsom’s Response

California Governor Gavin Newsom has taken a stand against the federal overreach, suing the Trump administration over troop deployments. Wallace praises Newsom’s leadership, stating, "He may be the first, but it's the point to try these things here where Trump thinks support among his base is the softest for the people living in the biggest state." (23:12)

Nicole Wallace advocates for widespread protests, emphasizing the importance of peaceful demonstrations to counteract the current administration's militarization efforts. She warns against falling into the hands of violent protesters who could overshadow the pro-democracy movement.

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Economic Weaknesses and the Unpopular Budget Bill

The discussion moves to Trump's handling of the economy, highlighting his retreat from the trade war and ongoing conflicts with Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell. The episode critiques Trump's proposed budget bill, labeled by Elon Musk as a "disgusting abomination." Polls indicate significant public disapproval, with 53% opposing the bill and only 27% supporting it (38:36).

Nicole Wallace points out the bipartisan impact of the bill, noting that "62% of all Democratic households have someone who has been on or benefited from Medicaid." She expresses uncertainty about the bill's prospects but underscores its potential humanitarian costs, mentioning that "16 million people will lose insurance." (39:07)

Notable Quote:

"It's a real what the fuck are we doing? Moment, I think, for the whole country." — Jon Favreau (07:08)

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Trump and Elon Musk’s On-Again, Off-Again Feud

The episode delves into the tumultuous relationship between Trump and Elon Musk. After a series of confrontations, including Musk accusing Trump of fostering a hostile environment, recent attempts at reconciliation have been made. Trump downplays past conflicts, stating, "Now I know why Elon doesn't like me so much..." (41:54), suggesting a superficial patch-up that may not endure given their history.

Nicole Wallace likens their relationship to "tarantulas in a bowl," highlighting the destructive nature of their interactions and the broader implications for political and technological leadership.

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RFK Jr. and the Undermining of Public Health

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on RFK Jr.'s actions within the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). Trump's appointment of RFK Jr. has led to the firing of the CDC's vaccine advisory panel and the installation of individuals promoting anti-vaccine misinformation. This move poses a severe threat to public health, potentially eroding trust in vaccine efficacy and safety standards.

Nicole Wallace expresses deep concern, noting, "RFK is probably threatening more Americans' health and wellness and lives than anybody else in the administration right now." (45:16) She underscores the urgency of addressing vaccine hesitancy and the broader public health implications of undermining scientific consensus.

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Call to Action and Future Episodes

As the episode wraps up, Jon Favreau encourages listeners to support Vote Save America, emphasizing the importance of defending democratic institutions and policies. The hosts also tease upcoming episodes, including an interview with Harvard political scientist Erica Chenoweth, exploring strategies to dismantle authoritarian regimes.

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Conclusion

This episode of Pod Save America provides a comprehensive analysis of the current political climate under Trump's influence, highlighting critical issues such as militarization, inconsistent immigration policies, economic struggles, and threats to public health. Through insightful discussion and expert commentary from Nicole Wallace, the podcast underscores the urgent need for collective action to preserve democratic values and safeguard American institutions.

Key Takeaways:

• Militarization and Authoritarianism: The deployment of federal troops in LA signals a disturbing trend towards authoritarian practices.
• Inconsistent Immigration Policies: Trump's shifting stance creates confusion and undermines public support.
• Economic and Legislative Challenges: The budget bill faces significant opposition, reflecting broader economic uncertainties.
• Public Health Threats: RFK Jr.'s influence within HHS jeopardizes vaccine trust and public health initiatives.
• The Importance of Peaceful Protest: Organized, peaceful demonstrations are crucial in countering militant overreach and preserving democracy.

Notable Quotes Highlighted:

• "This was one of the bleakest days of anchoring that I've ever had in the job." — Nicole Wallace (07:34)
• "What's happening in LA is a trauma for the community, for the state, but it's reverse engineered to achieve all of these aims that Trump had in the first term but wasn't allowed to do." — Nicole Wallace (13:58)
• "We have to ensure that we are not disparaging or attacking or pushing away men and women in uniform as we resist Trump." — Jon Favreau (30:57)

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For more insights and detailed discussions on the evolving political landscape, subscribe to Pod Save America on your preferred podcast platform or visit crooked.com/friends.

Transcript

[Jon Favreau]

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[Tommy Vietor]

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[Jon Favreau]

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau. Dan is on vacation, but today I am thrilled to have with me the host of MSNBC's Deadline White House, the one and only Nicole Wallace. Nicole, great to have you on the show.

[Nicole Wallace]

Such an honor. Thank you so much.

[Jon Favreau]

And welcome to the world of podcasting. I understand you just launched your very own series called the Best People. Can you tell us a little bit about the project?

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, I thought the Best People was, was Trump's best inside joke with his voters in 2015 and 16. I thought it was like the bridge between. I know what you see is not necessarily reassuring. I thought when he promised to bring the best people to the White House, the, that it was one of the most clever things he did to bridge the gap between the guy, you know from Apprentice and the Commander in Chief. I don't think he's that guy anymore. Like, I, I, I think that was, that was like a brand from yesteryear when he was a little bit in on the joke and when he nominated Matt Gaetz to be ag, I was like, all right, well, we're done with the Best people chapter, so I'm gonna take that and reappropriate that. And so I thought it was a good umbrella under which to put the actual best people and share them.

[Jon Favreau]

That's great. And it's not just political types, too. You have Jason Bateman and some other interesting people on there.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. I mean, everyone, though, is so captivated by this moment. I mean, Jason Bateman says, I can't look away. And Doc Rivers is the episode that drops on Monday, the last week of the playoffs. And I talked to him about this moment, and he lives in a small swing state and has a lot of thoughts about the way the campaign was waged. So people come from all different walks of life, but everyone is pretty keyed in on this moment in our politics.

[Jon Favreau]

Well, congrats on the pod and everyone should go find it and take a listen. Thank you. We had a lot to cover today, including the latest with Trump's massively unpopular budget bill, his on again, off again bromance with Elon Musk and RFK Jr. Putting some of the Internet's worst anti vax cranks in charge of America's vaccines. And later, you'll all hear Lovett's conversation with New York mayoral candidate Zoran Mamdani, whose late surge in the polls is making it a tight race with Andrew Cuomo. But let's start with the military occupation of Los Angeles, where there are now more US troops deployed than in Iraq and Syria combined, 4800 federalized Guard and Marines altogether. Trump claims he's militarized the streets of LA to help local law enforcement deal with immigration protests. But the police have been pretty clear that they don't need the help. LAPD Chief Jim McDonald told CNN on Wednesday night that, quote, we're nowhere near a level where we'd be reaching out to the National Guard. And since Mayor Karen Bass has put in place a curfew for downtown LA earlier in the week, the protests have died down and cops have arrested dozens of the more violent protesters without any help from the troops. So what are the 4800 troops doing? Well, they are now accompanying masked federal agents as they conduct massive raids in our neighborhoods, workplaces, outside schools, even churches, rounding up people who they merely suspect of not having proper documentation. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem came to LA on Thursday and held a press conference where she promised more raids and attacked California's elected officials. But when one of those officials, US Senator Alex Padilla, showed up at the press conference to ask her a question, this is what happened. We are staying here to liberate this.

[Nicole Wallace]

City from the socialist and the burdensome leadership that this governor and that this.

[Tommy Vietor]

Mayor have placed on this country and.

[Nicole Wallace]

What they have tried to insert into this city.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Senator Alex Padilla, I have questions for the secretary because the fact of the matter is a half a dozen violent criminals that you're rotating on your.

[Jon Favreau]

Hands behind your back. Hands behind your back. All right, cool hand. Lay flat. Lay flat. Other hand, sir. Other hand. If this is how the Department of Homeland Security responds to a senator with a question, you can only imagine.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

What they're doing to farm workers, to cooks, to day laborers out in the Los Angeles community and throughout California and throughout the country.

[Jon Favreau]

Outrageous, shocking, infuriating. Nicole, maybe we can start with your reaction to federal agents handcuffing a US Senator who asked a question at a press conference.

[Nicole Wallace]

This was one of the bleakest days of anchoring that I've ever had in the job. I mean, we, I think, were prepared, you know, on the. On the losing side of the November contest, for Trump to do things that we warned he would do in his embrace of autocracy and Orban and Putin and others. But as your former colleague Ben Rhodes said on my show today, I mean, Orban hasn't done this. He's to the autocratic right of Orban. And to be doing what they're doing in full view of the cameras really does make the mind expand in new directions in terms of wondering what they're doing to people who don't have. Who aren't one of a body of 100 and where there aren't cameras. I think it's a chilling moment, both in the treatment of someone from the other political party, but I think it's also a really ominous sign of what they're willing to use. Dhs and those were FBI agents who had the senator on the ground. Dan Bongino confirmed that in a statement. It's a real what the fuck are we doing? Moment, I think, for the whole country.

[Jon Favreau]

I also think it is. What's especially frightening to me is, is that it's gone so far beyond Trump now. I was thinking about this when you were talking about him, talking about the best people. And I think in the first term, I was most worried about Trump and then held out some hope that some of the more traditional Republicans that he had in the administration would maybe pull him back from some of his worst impulses, worst instincts. And this time around, I'm almost more worried about some of the people he's put in positions of power. And clearly they feel that they can do these things without impunity. Like, you don't have FBI agents or masked federal ICE officers or Kristi Noem Cabinet secretaries doing this kind of stuff unless they thought that, A, Trump wanted it, and B, if they go too far, they don't have to worry because he's got the pardon power.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. And he took all this out for a run the first term. Right. Like in meetings, it would always leak out. I remember the. Remember where I was sitting when the Times story broke that he wanted to pardon immigration officials if they broke any laws by being brutal to people entering the country illegally. But what is so different is John Kelly was the first DHS Secretary. Jim Mattis was the first defense Secretary. Mark Milley was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. None of them were for that, which was illegal. None of those men were for troops roaming the streets. I mean, Kelly breaks his silence politically and warns about this moment. And to see it all come to pass in less than five months is really scary.

[Jon Favreau]

The incident itself was shocking. What really has bothered me maybe even more is just the reaction from the administration. Republicans. You can see a scenario where the administration comes out and says dhs. Others, you know what? I know he identified himself. We really didn't know who he was. The agents were trying to protect her. They thought there was gonna be threats but obviously it went too far and we hope we can move on. Right. But instead DHS lies about what actually happened, which is wild to lie when there's a video that we're all seeing. And then Mike Johnson, speaker of the House, calls for Padilla to be censured and basically they're all doubling down, all the Republicans, you know, I guess Lisa Murkowski expressed sort of outrage about this, but right wing media, everyone on Fox, the administration, they're all just, they're 100% behind it. And not only are they behind it, they maybe wanna punish him. I just, it's unbelievable.

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, what's amazing is you don't always get to see the anatomy of the lie. And I bemoan the disinformation. All the. But it was amazing to watch it. It all kind of unfolded while I was on the air. So the video explodes, but then Noem goes on fox in the 3 o' clock hour. I think with Martha McCallum I might have that wrong, but I think that was the anchor.

[Jon Favreau]

She was, yeah.

[Nicole Wallace]

And says to the anchor, you know, he didn't identify himself. The tape is literally like everywhere on right and left wing sort of accounts on social media. The anchor doesn't correct her. And Fox, you know, for better or for worse is millions of people watching at any given time. So the lie is out there. In the 3 o' clock hour before this incident is two hours old. A lie has been told on Fox News that isn't corrected. He didn't identify himself. It's the first thing he says, you know, while he's still in the room.

[Jon Favreau]

You've been covering what's been happening here in LA all week and watching it unfold. What's your general reaction to what's been going on here?

[Nicole Wallace]

I think that this was reverse engineered. I mean, I think that Trump's views about California, Trump's sort of whatever he regrets not getting to do because Millie and Esper got in the way has all just burst out into full view. And I think that the polling on immigration is really clear. 87% support deporting adjudicated violent criminals and 9% support deporting people, working people, married to America. It's not a normal question about policy. It's like everyone supports one thing, no one supports the other. And they're doing the thing that less than 20% of Americans support, which is a lot of MAGA voters that don't support deporting people who are long standing members of a community, community or have a job or have kids or are married to citizens. That's who they're targeting. So I think that what's happening in LA is a trauma for the community, for the state. I'm from California and it's traumatic to watch, but I also think it's reverse engineered to achieve all of these aims that Trump had in the first term but wasn't allowed to do because there were people like Millian Esper and others in the way.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, I'm glad you raised the immigration part of this because, yes, I saw a headline in Politico this morning at the front page of Politico on the website that sort of drove me nuts. But it also sort of sums up certain conventional wisdom right now, which is Dem's work to turn LA debate from immigration to Trump's executive powers, because it's a winner for him on the immigration front. And I just, I don't think that's true. I get that when you ask people in general, should we deport people who are here illegally? And you just ask it that way you get, you know, majority support, not too high, but like as you said, it's 20 or sub 20% approval for deporting people who've lived here for many years without committing a crime, deporting people who came here as children, deporting people who are married to US citizen, deporting people with US citizen children. This is just from a YouGov poll this week, but Pew polls, any poll you need.

[Nicole Wallace]

Pew poll. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

And his Trump's approval on immigration has fallen like 6 points the average approval on all the different polls just this week.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. So Trump beats the Democrats on immigration when he's giving rallies showing footage of violent crimes carried out by immigrants. Trump, even in his first term loses majority support on immigration when he starts deporting people who aren't the people that he fear mongered about. And the truth is the people that he's targeting, I mean, I think even Trump reversed himself on the raids that ICE carried out Tuesday in the agricultural heartland of California. I think up and down the Central Valley they were raiding farmlands. And I think Trump sent out some bizarre all cap tweet today about our great farmers. They can't lose their workers. They've been here a long time. Find other people.

[Jon Favreau]

I wanted to ask you about that because. Yeah, so he posts this post on Truth Social and then he gets asked about it at his event today and here's what he said. What made you change your mind about targeting in California? Farmers and people in the Hotel and.

[Donald Trump]

Leisure business well, we're not targeting. In fact, if you look today, I put out a statement today about farmers. Our farmers are being hurt badly by, you know, they have very good workers. They've worked for them for 20 years. They, they're not citizens, but they've turned out to be, you know, great. And we're going to have to do something about that. We can't take farmers and take all their people and send them back because they don't have maybe what they're supposed to have, maybe not. And you know what's going to happen and what is happening? They get rid of some of the people because, you know, you go into a farm and you look and people don't. They've been there for 20, 25 years, and they've worked great, and the owner of the farm loves them and everything else. And then you're supposed to throw them out. And you know what happens? They end up hiring the people, the criminals that have come in, the murderers from prisons and everything else. So we're, we're going to have an order on that pretty soon, I think.

[Jon Favreau]

Did he just come out for comprehensive immigration reform? Like, what? I don't. It's so weird. What do you make of that? Is like, is he for real? Does he not know what's going on? Is he just bullshitting us?

[Nicole Wallace]

I think this is, like, with the Wall street folks called whatever, Taco. I mean, I think this is like, a bad, good thing about Trump, right? Or a good bad thing. I mean, when a human face, or I guess in Trump's view, function is put on the person who may or may not. What did he say? Have all the right things in, like, the leisure. I want to work in leisure in my next career. But when, when. I mean, I guess it proves the point about the polling that even Donald Trump, when the illegal immigrant is humanized and he's told that they're the people who put, you know, food on our tables, who, you know, we've seen pictures of him right, at the omelet bar at Mar a Lago. Like, they're the people that, that, that make it possible to feed our families and stock our grocery stores. And a lot of them have been here a really long time, and they're the lifeblood of the agricultural industry. And Trump's like, you know, let me get to the left of on msnbc. I'm not for sending those people back. And it just shows that the issue has been so cynically politicized and weaponized, unfortunately, effectively on the right, but that it doesn't take much to convert Trump. It doesn't take much to change Trump's mind about not deporting people here, maybe illegally, but who have jobs.

[Jon Favreau]

Well, and for a while now, back, going back years, he's been for doing something to protect dreamers and then not for it or just forgotten about it or doesn't try. You know, briefly, during the campaign in 2024, he went on the all in podcast and he talked to them about stapling the green card to the diploma for, you know, international students who were here. So he has had that softer side before, or at least expressed it. But it makes me, what worries me about this is that Stephen Miller is really running the show here. And I think Donald Trump trusts Stephen Miller implicitly. And so he thinks, according to Stephen Miller, that all the people that they're deporting are these violent, terrible criminals. Meanwhile, Stephen Miller, he just told Jake Tapper back in January, I'm sure it's not your position, Jake, that we should supply America's food with exploitative, illegal alien labor. He wants to deport everyone. And he's open about it. And sure enough, after Trump made the comment and put that and posted that on Truth Social, hours later, he has another post on Truth Social that says this tsunami of illegals has destroyed Americans public schools, hospitals, parks, community resources, and living conditions. They have stolen American jobs and turned once idyllic communities into Third World nightmares. So I guess Miller got control of the. The account back. And, and I saw him retweeting that.

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, the thing that we know now, right, it's like year feels like you're 37, but it's year nine. Year nine to the Trump story is that he doesn't tweet about things that he feels good about. He tweets about things he feels insecure about. So someone got to him and he felt insecure, apologetic about the raids. I mean, the only thing that happened between the raids on Tuesday in California's agricultural part of the state, that's where they were. There's video and Trump posting that we're not gonna target leisure. And whatever he said, hotels, hotels, food, are those raids. It does raise. I mean, I think you're getting to a scarier point, which is that it was very obvious where his information came from in the first term and troubling. But we knew what he was watching. He watched Morning Joe in the mornings. He watched inordinate amounts of Fox and Friends, and he seemed to stick to the Fox primetime lineup at night. He doesn't seem to be Taking in as much news. And he was obsessed with the Washington Post and the New York Times, and it was never really the sense that I had that he was reading them, but he was watching the cable coverage of their print stories. It's not clear that he's taking in news this time. And so it feels like the things that Stephen Miller says to him have more sway just based on what's publicly facing, which are his contradictory and swerving tweets. He also just lost Elon, who seemed to, if nothing else, take up a lot of his bandwidth and time. So it's possible that he's spending more time with Stephen Miller. And these things shouldn't matter to a normal country when the President's normal. But because he's doing such extraordinary things while he holds all the levers of power, it's really important to try to figure out what his sources of information are.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, I think that's a good point, because I do think it's mostly Miller. It reminds me of the Supreme Court case around Venezuela, when every single justice, even if they disagreed on certain things, basically said, yeah, everyone deserves due process. And then Stephen Miller's like, oh, no, we won unanimously the other way. And Trump was like, yeah, Stephen told me that we won the case the other way. So I do think he's just getting a bunch of bullshit from Miller on this, which is quite scary, cuz he has a lot of power. Steven Miller in this administration. One Democrat who doesn't seem concerned about the politics of all this is Gavin Newsom, who is suing the Trump administration over the troop deployment. Federal judge heard arguments in that case this afternoon, said he would have a ruling shortly. Newsom also went pretty hard at Trump in a speech he gave this week. I think we have a clip of that. California may be first, but it clearly will not end here. Other states are next. Democracy is next. Democracy is under assault before our eyes. This moment we have feared has arrived. What Donald Trump wants most is your fealty, your silence, to be complicit in this moment. Do not give in to him. What do you make of Newsom's response this week? And in this moment?

[Nicole Wallace]

I think he's been great. I mean, I don't think that it's a California story anymore either. I mean, I think that what happened to Padilla today, and I think sending in the National Guard over his objections makes this a national story, whether you think so or not. But I think it'll bear out, and I think everything he said is spot on. They may be the first. But that might be the point to try these things here where Trump thinks support among his base is the softest for the people living in the biggest state. I think the biggest donor state, right? California.

[Jon Favreau]

Yep.

[Nicole Wallace]

But I thought that speech that addressed to the nation was spot on.

[Jon Favreau]

Foreign this podcast is sponsored by Squarespace Squarespace is the all in one website platform designed to elevate your online presence and drive your success. Squarespace provides all the tools you need to promote and get paid for your services in one platform. Create a professional website to showcase your offerings and attract clients. Whether you offer consultations, events or other experiences, Squarespace can help you grow your business. Squarespace offers a complete library of professionally designed and award winning website templates with options for every use and category. No matter where you start. Your website is flexible to what you need with intuitive drag and drop editing, beautiful styling options, unrivaled visual design effects on brand AI content and more ways to list what you offer. No experience required. Every Dream Needs a Domain Squarespace Domains makes it easy to find the best name for your business at one fair all inclusive price. No hidden fees or add ons required. Every Squarespace domain comes with an advanced privacy and security tools included to ensure your domain remains online and protected. Plus, Squarespace provides everything you need to bring more of your dream to life, whether that means building a website or adding a professional email service. Don't wait to claim your name. Invest in your dream domain today. Head to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you're ready to Launch, go to squarespace.com crooked to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. That's squarespace.com Crooked USAA knows dynamic duos can save the day like superheroes and sidekicks or auto and home insurance. With USAA you can bundle your AUT and save up to 10%. Tap the banner to learn more and get a'@usaa.com bundle restrictions apply. Speaking of militarized streets, Trump is finally throwing himself the North Korean style birthday party he's wanted for years military parade in D.C. that will cost taxpayers $45 million. You probably saw the footage of the tanks arriving in Washington. The army says 6,000 troops will be participating in the parade, which was originally supposed to be held in honor of the Army's 250th birthday until Trump hijacked the celebration for his 79th. The president also did a pre celebration of sorts earlier this week with a speech to U.S. troops at Fort Bragg, which he used to attack Joe Biden, Gavin Newsom. Karen Bass, Los Angeles which he called a trash heap. The media. I think what was most disturbing from that speech, though, is that the troops behind him laughed at his attacks, booed the Democrats. He called out by name. And according to Military.com, the reason why is that apparently the audience was screened for political allegiance to Trump and personal appearance. One unit level message said, quote, no fat soldiers. Trump was later asked about the long planned protests that will take place across the country this weekend and said that he hadn't heard about them. But, quote, if there's any protester that wants to come out, they will be met with very big force. Lovely. So DoD rules expressly prohibit active duty personnel from participating in political events while in uniform. But basically no one in the military establishment, current or former, is speaking out against what's happening. Why do you think almost no, even retired generals. Why do you think we're not hearing from some of these retired generals about this?

[Nicole Wallace]

Well, look, first of all, you and I both wrote speeches for presidents that were delivered in front of troops. And you're cognizant that the applause lines don't have anything to do with your president's policies because you don't want them to look like they have to applaud a policymaker. So you craft the speeches. I mean, I'm sure you did this all the time. You craft the speeches so that there's only an applause when you're celebrating the men and women of the military, either their current courage or their historic greatness. I mean, it's a point to remind people that this is so perverted from what's normal. I think it really scares a lot of former military. I think the silence of the generals is complicated for said silent generals. But I think that there is a big question mark over what's going to hold. And I think that we probably only see the tip of the iceberg. That speech we can talk about because it showed. But who else is being asked? Who else is being vetted? Who else is being staged? Who else is being pushed out of the picture for being fat? What else is really happening there? I actually find the military story in a lot of ways one of the most frightening and difficult to cover because as you said, even the former generals are afraid to speak out or restrain from speaking out. But to put Hegseth, who was opposed by Democrats and Republicans, in charge of the military and then to see the fruits of that bet, right, to see this event at Fort Bragg and to see the way they are gleefully and brazenly Using troops as pawns. The greatest victim of that is the troops, is the military. And I think it's actually shocking that the Republican senators are complicit. I mean, this is where you'd hope that someone like, I don't even know. I feel stupid even suggesting this. Tom Cotton care. Right. Where are the people who are still willing to sort of put their body between brazen partisanship and the military in the Republican Party? There aren't any.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, it's pretty scary to me, too. I mean, Trump giving a completely partisan, worse than partisan, just like, you know, dishonest, over the top speech like that at an official, you know, event with military doesn't surprise me. It's awful, but it doesn't really surprise me. But hearing some of the troops cheer and boo, you know what worries me? And I've been thinking about this ever since the Guard got here. It's like we, and I'm saying this like we can't. I can't believe we're at this point, but we have to make sure that we are not disparaging or attacking or pushing away men and women in uniform as we resist Trump, because we are getting to a point where we do not want a country where we have a bunch of security forces loyal to Donald Trump with this kind of government. And obviously we have a defense secretary and whoever else he's put in senior leadership that is only loyal to him. But once you get to the rank and file, once you get to sort of the officer class, you really want to have people there who do not feel like they have to choose between the country and Donald Trump.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, but I think the story again of nine years of Trump is he makes everyone at one point or another choose right. Like Bill Barr. Got to wait until, I don't know, whatever, November of 2020, to choose. Comey had to choose much earlier than that. He didn't make it a month. Sessions didn't make it, I don't know, eight weeks. I mean, everyone chooses everyone because Trump wants for there to be no national interest, just personal interests. Everybody has to choose. And I think the biggest difference between the first term and the second term is it's all out in the Open. J.D. vance has chosen. He's out there saying that the judges are rogue and they're wrong and they're hemming. You know, he's the guy that called Trump America's Hitler, something no one on MSNBC has ever said. The most nasty insult ever levied at Donald Trump that I've ever heard is a tie between J.D. vance, who called him America's Hitler, and Mitch McConnell, who called him a, quote, despicable human being. I don't know any elected Democrat who said either of those things about Trump. And now they are in service of Trumpism, of Trump sort of collapsing US national security and a national interest and purpose with self enrichment and loyalty to self. And for those guys to go along with that is the flashing red light.

[Jon Favreau]

What do you make of the protests that have been planned for this week long before anything that happened here in la? They're being called the no Kings protests. The organizers, Leah Greenberg, who's one of the leaders of Indivisible, you know, she said she wants, we want to create contrast, not conflict. And, you know, to that end, there won't be a protest in D.C. where the parade is. It's going to be all over the country. But what do you think of these protests? Good idea. Are you a little. Do you have some concern over them?

[Nicole Wallace]

Look, I think that, you know this. You can't manufacture what. You can manufacture what two people do. Right. You can hire them to be in an ad. You cannot manufacture what thousands and thousands of Americans do. And so people are feeling like this isn't who we are. The contrast that Trump has chosen to make are not about Democrats and liberals. They're about things that are, you look around the world, these are not democratic practices. It is not a democratic thing to ignore the Supreme Court. It's not a democratic thing to arrest Democratic elected officials. So I think it's organic, I think it's pent up. And I asked Mikey Sheryl today, are you going to follow the lead of the most energetic parts of the pro democracy base of voters and Democratic parties? And she seemed, I don't know, I don't know if she was insulted, but she said, well, we are, we are. But I think it's a healthy thing that the American people have decided the moment they've decided at this point, what is it, five months they're gonna be out there and they have a lot of things to, I think, be persuasive about that they're too far that they're not the normal debates between Democrats and Republicans, but they're un American practices that they're opposing.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, and my take on this is the more people we have out there who are in the streets protesting peacefully, the better it is for the pro democracy movement. Because I think when there isn't that, that in the void, you get some of the more violent protesters that we saw here in LA and they steal the spotlight along with the writes narrative about the protests. And the best way to counter that is to have an organized, peaceful opposition that is in such great numbers that it can't be ignored, you know, and so I really hope that people get out there for that, but also realize that, you know, it's a little bit of a scary time, especially after we saw what happened with Padilla, you know. But I think it's important to get.

[Nicole Wallace]

Out there for sure. And I mean, something Marco Elias always says on my show is that he says, I'm not scared. I just don't think it makes me safer to be quiet. And I think that's right. I mean, I feel that way as a cable host. I'm not concerned that they're not looking for anyone in the media to make a mistake and then come after the media. I just don't think it's. I don't think you're in a safer posture in a defensive crouch.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, no, I think that's well said. Pod Save America is brought to you by Fatty15 if you've searched for wellness supplements lately, you might have heard about C15. It's an essential fatty acid that's naturally found in whole fat dairy products. But over time, our intake of these foods has decreased. Combined with the natural decline of C15. As we age, many of us aren't getting enough of this essential nutrient. That's where fatty 15 comes in. C15 is a groundbreaking essential fatty acid, the first to be discovered in over 90 years. Fatty 15's co founder, Dr. Stephanie Venn Watson made this pivotal discovery while working with the US Navy. Extensive research encompassing over 100 studies has revealed that C15 is a vital nutrient for healthy aging. By replenishing our cells with the essential C15 nutrient, fatty 15 effectively repairs cells and restores our long term health. This scientific advancement supports long term health and wellness, specifically targeting healthy aging. Insufficient C15 leads to cellular fragility and accelerated aging, which in turn impacts the aging of our entire body. Fatty 15 strengthens our cells and helps slow down biological aging at a cellular level. Fatty 15 is a scientifically supported, award winning and patented supplement providing 100% pure C15. It's also vegan and free from flavors, allergens and preservatives. Fatty 15 offers three times more cellular benefits compared to omega 3 or fish oil. Best of all, fatty 15 comes in a gorgeous reusable glass bamboo jar and refills are shipped right to your door. Fatty 15 is on a mission to optimize your C15 levels to help support your long term health and wellness, especially as you age. You can get an additional 15% off their 90 day subscription starter kit by going to fatty15.com crooked and using code crooked at checkout.

[Nicole Wallace]

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[Jon Favreau]

All right, let's talk about what's unexpectedly shaping up to be Trump's biggest weakness, his handling of the economy. The President's been in full retreat from the trade war he launched against the rest of the world once he realized it would likely cause a global recession. This week, he said his team is close to finalizing a trade deal with China, though I'm not sure anyone thinks a permanent 55% tax on the phones and toys and clothing and, and sneakers we buy from China counts as a good deal for Americans. Trump's also still mad at his Fed chair, Jerome Powell. And he told reporters on Thursday that Powell is, quote, a numbskull and is threatening to, quote, force something on the Fed because he wants interest rates lowered. And then there's more bad news for Trump's budget bill, the one that Elon Musk called a disgusting abomination. Republicans in Congress are fighting over whether the bill should add more to the deficit or kick more people off their health care, which is pushing back their self imposed July 4th deadline. The bill also appears to be wildly unpopular, with 53% of those surveyed for a recent Quinnipiac poll saying they oppose it. Only 27% support it. The remainder had not yet formed an opinion. Which is important, too, because this is a story that has not broken through all that much with everything else that's happening. What do you think are the prospects of this bill passing and what it looks like in final form?

[Nicole Wallace]

So I don't know why I have all these poll numbers in my brain. 62% of all Democratic households have someone who has been on or benefited from Medicaid. And 62% of all Republican households have someone who has been on Medicaid or someone in their House. House. So there's no partisan distinction between whose benefit and I think of independence. It's actually 69. So, you know, part like you're hurting the same number of people and what is it, 16 million people will lose insurance?

[Jon Favreau]

Yep.

[Nicole Wallace]

I think this is tied to the Musk Bannon War that Bannon lost and Musk won at least the first round. These are the kinds of voters that I think Bannon in his reptilian political survival sense tried to, I won't say tried to help, but tried to prevent Trump from hurting flagrantly. And I think it's a huge liability for Republicans now. I'm not for them walking off the cliff, even if it's a huge political liability because of all the people that will suffer. But I just don't know if there are any more pain points in the Republican political psyche. I don't know what's going to happen.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, that's my. It seems messy and it seems like they're not going to get something done. But I think for two reasons they will ultimately. One, because this is a cliff. And if they don't pass anything, taxes go up on everyone. And so that is quite an incentive to get something done, even if it's not what they originally wanted to pass. And also, I just, we have not seen any Republicans of any significant number stand up to Donald Trump and say no to him, whether they are on the far right, whether they're moderate, whether they're whoever they are. And so you could get a few here and there. And obviously the margins are small in both houses. But I don't know. I think failure on this is something that Donald Trump is not gonna accept. And so I imagine he's going to put the screws to these people if it looks like it's getting messy.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. And I don't even know what the. I mean, their marketing isn't genuine, but I don't even know what the slogan is for this. Do it and lose your scene and kill people because they'll be. I mean, Joni Ernst is the perfect encapsulation of how they even know it sucks.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Nicole Wallace]

You know, her defense of the bill is like, well, we're all gonna die and she goes to a cemetery. Like, I mean, it's a real mask off moment for the callousness and the lack of any sort of political strategy in the Republican Party other than fealty to Trump. And in some ways, that openness about it is easier to cover, but it is a little scarier.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, it's the we're all gonna die bill. That's. That really sums up the bill quite well better than one big beautiful bill. Speaking of Elon, he tried to patch things up with Trump this week. In an early morning apology tweet on Wednesday, he admitted he, quote, went too far with his recent attacks on Trump. Like when he accused his former boss, who he spent a quarter of a trillion dollars electing, of being involved in child sex trafficking and then called for his impeachment. So the olive branch comes after a series of calls with JD Vance, Susie Wiles, and reportedly Trump himself. How did the calls go? Well, here's Trump speaking about Elon at a press conference on Thursday.

[Donald Trump]

But in my first day in office, I ended the Green New scam and abolished the EV mandate at the federal level. We abolished it. Now I know why Elon doesn't like me so much, which he does, actually. He does. And he never had a problem. You know, it's very interesting. This was. This is not something new. And that's what he said. He said, as long as I'm on the same plane as everybody else, we're going to do good. We make a better product. I said, that's very cool. It's very cool. That was my answer. After that, he got a little bit strange, but I don't know why. Over much smaller things than that.

[Jon Favreau]

Sounds like they're best pals again. Do you think this is the last we'll hear of the great Trump Musk feud, or do you think there's another chapter?

[Nicole Wallace]

Oh, no, I think this is. I mean, this is like the breakup story that you stop listening to because it's so stupid. And they deserve each other. I mean, they completely deserve each other. And it's one of those stories that you get to the brink of finding comical because they're both these ridiculous caricatures and characters, but they've both done so much damage that you just. There's nobody to root for. I keep calling them tarantulas in a bowl, but that's starting to feel mean to tarantulas. You know, it's sort of like the peak, you know, Trump year one story, the on again, off again romance with Trump and Musk. I mean, you can't make it up.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. No, it seems like Elon probably needed to back off more than Trump did. But, you know, Trump's never one to not hold a grudge, so. Right. Which is why even after he has a nice call with him and everyone tries to patch things up, anytime someone brings up Elon, you know, now he's gonna do what he just did there, which is he's gotta get a few digs in.

[Nicole Wallace]

Right. And like, I don't think he ever talked to Pence after Pence simply certified an election that in his more cogent moments, they both know he lost.

[Jon Favreau]

Right.

[Nicole Wallace]

So the idea that he's gonna let Elon Musk off the hook after accusing him of being in the Epstein files. I'm sorry, I'm skeptical that has anything to do with anything other than the millions of dollars Musk spent on his campaign. But, you know, I don't know, maybe there was something real between them. I don't know.

[Jon Favreau]

One last thing before we go to break. RFK Jr has been wreaking havoc on public health for we haven't had a chance to talk about it too much on this show because there's been too many, even crazier headlines to discuss. But on Monday, our anti vax Health and Human Services secretary abruptly fired all 17 members of the CDC's vaccine advisory panel, formerly known as the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, or acip. Just two days later, he named eight new appointees, many of whom became known during the pandemic for questioning vaccine safety and effectiveness. Among them are Robert Malone and Restef Levy, who've pushed wildly discredited claims like the idea that Covid vaccines are dangerous for people who've already had the virus. They've even called for shutting down MRNA vaccine programs altogether. What do you think this means for public health? Obviously, nothing good. But it's always hard to figure out a just how frightened we should be about something like this and the moves that RFK Jr are making. And baby, whether, you know, there are other institutionalists, experts, career officials in public health that can sort of pull this back. But I'm not sure right now. It's pretty scary, I think.

[Nicole Wallace]

I mean, I'm in the same boat you're in. I have not adequately or I have not done a good job covering rfk. Yeah, some of it is the things Trump is sort of smashing in full view Democratic norms, rule of law, history of apolitical doj. You know, these are stories that in our old jobs you can sort of grab and understand quickly. It takes longer. I'm not well versed in all the science, but it takes a little bit longer to understand the scale of the damage he's doing at hhs. But I would venture to say that in terms of the numbers of Americans, innocent Americans, regardless of their political affiliation being harmed, RFK is probably threatening more Americans health and wellness and lives than anybody else in the administration right now. And I feel like I've got to figure out how to do a better job covering it. And I think for all of the things that we're going to have to just wait and see where we are in three and a half years, I Don't think childhood immunizations can wait. I've got a one and a half year old. And that first 18 month vaccine schedule, it's scientific, it's rigorous, and you don't have to take vaccines off the market. You just have to make people wonder, do I really need that second shot? You just have to make them doubt it. And then you've got a kid in critical condition with measles. I mean, it is in a lot of ways the story I've done the worst job covering. And in a lot of ways it's probably the most important.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, we have an 18 month old and you know, we reached out to our pediatrician and we were like, what should we do here? Should we move, you know, the MMR vaccine? Should we move up the third shot? And so, and we asked, I sort of asked her later like, what, what's this been from your perspective? And she was like, look, you know, we, at our practice here in Los Angeles, we make sure that everyone, all the kids are vaccinated. You know, she's like, but the challenge is not, this is not an issue where you can say, well, the people who don't want to get their kids vaccinated, too bad for them, you know, because you need certain herd immunity. And if you start having communities where, you know, the number of vaccinated kids goes under or people goes under a certain percentage, then people are at risk of breakthrough infections for diseases that we haven't had to deal with in forever. I do think that one of the reasons it's, this is my theory on this untested, that one of the reasons we're having all having trouble talking about it and covering it is we all still have a little bit of, of pandemic ptsd. And no one wants to, no one wants to go back to the COVID wars of 2020 and 2021. And I get that it's not a fun topic, but you know, next time there's an outbreak somewhere or we're gonna need a vaccine really quickly for some new disease, we're gonna be in real trouble. We're gonna be in real trouble.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah. And the first part of the population to suffer are the most innocent. The people who've never voted for anyone. They're babies. And so you can say a grow and has a choice now whether to vaccinate for not just Covid, but the flu or, you know, whatever. A baby is totally dependent not just on their parents choices, but it would seem now their parents information bubble.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Nicole Wallace]

And I think that's really scary.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, it is. Well, I don't know if there was any good news today. I'm sorry, I don't know to end it on a high note, but really can't.

[Nicole Wallace]

I'm good.

[Jon Favreau]

Nicole, thank you so much for doing this today. This was great. Everyone can catch you on MSNBC's deadline White House and your new podcast, the Best People. Everyone should go check it out. I believe John Lovett is gonna be on soon as well. You can check out Lovett on the pod.

[Nicole Wallace]

Yeah, we'd love to have all of you guys on anytime.

[Jon Favreau]

We'd love to do it.

[Nicole Wallace]

Come visit us. Thank you so much.

[Jon Favreau]

Nicole Wallace, thanks for joining POD Save America.

[Nicole Wallace]

Thank you so much and thanks for what you guys do.

[Jon Favreau]

Okay, when we come back, you'll hear Lovett's excellent conversation with Zoran Mandani. But two things before we get to that vote Save America a great resource for everything that's going on right now. The folks at VoteSave America are raising money for immigration defense groups. So if you want to help, and I hope you do, you can go to votesaveamerica.com support and donate what you can to help right now. And while you're there, sign up to participate in one of the collective actions this weekend. You can find information about events near [e-mail] Nokings that's votesaveamerica.com Nokations also, right now, when you buy something from the Crooked store, you'll get a promo code for a free 30 day trial of Friends of the Pod, our subscription community. That means a full month of ad, free pods, exclusive subscriber only shows, and access to our Discord server completely free. So if there's a T shirt you've had your eye on or you need something to wear out protesting, now is the perfect time to grab it. The offer ends next week and of course, every purchase supports our mission and our work here at Crooked. So head to crooked.com store now. When we come back, Zoran Mamdani Foreign Save America is brought to you by article. We love article furniture. We have a bunch of great looking furniture here in the Crooked hq. I think we got some couches. I got some patio furniture at home from article. Always looks great, it always arrives quickly and it's also really affordable. Article offers a carefully selected collection of mid century modern coastal and scandi designs. These pieces are not only attractive individually, but are also designed to coordinate effortlessly with almost any other article item. This intentional design strategy simplifies the process of mixing and matching, allowing you to easily achieve a unified and fashionable living space. Article takes great care in curating its collection, focusing solely on high quality, meaningful pieces that will stand the test of time. Every item is chosen for its craftsmanship, design and lasting value. Article offers fast, affordable shipping across the US and Canada with options for professional assembly. If you prefer a hands off experience, I do have a question or need help with your design choices? Article's Customer Care Team is available seven days a week offering knowledgeable support and even free interior design services to help get your home just right. With Article's 30 day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence, knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it. This peace of mind ensures you can invest in your home without hesitation. Articles offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit article.comcrooked and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. That's article.com crooked for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

[Nicole Wallace]

Wait, you're not a Hotels.com member, so you're choosing to pay full price? Did you not hear the song how.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Could you not be a member and save up to 20%? That's less than 50%, but it's more than 0%.

[Jon Favreau]

You're welcome.

[Nicole Wallace]

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[Tommy Vietor]

Zoran Mamdani. Welcome to the Pod. Good to meet you.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Thank you so much for having me. It's great to meet you.

[Tommy Vietor]

So you told the Times that your favorite mayor is Fiorella LaGuardia, and I saw that and it actually I'd already. I don't know a lot about LaGuardia, so people can correct me, but when I saw your ad where you were just. So were you speaking fluently and I'm not even. I like. What language were you speaking in that ad?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Is it Hindustani or.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, yeah, Hindustani, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You speak multiple languages?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I speak. I speak Hindi. I can't really speak Spanish, which is why that ad starts in the day and ends in the night. Because it took a lot, right?

[Tommy Vietor]

Because it took a lot of lot of takes. A lot of takes. Well, because I don't even know if it's apocryphal, but that LaGuardia was half Jewish, half Italian. He would speak Italian in the Italian neighborhoods and he would speak Yiddish in the Jewish neighborhoods and I just. Oh, so that's intentional. Talk to me about basically what kind of coalition you're trying to build right now. And what lessons you take from LaGuardia other than how to make an airport go from being very, very shitty to slightly better.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You know, I think about LaGuardia and his ability to fight an anti immigrant animus at the same time as transforming what was possible for working class New Yorkers and the necessity of doing both things at the same time. Having a politics that's against that kind of authoritarianism and also for that kind of economic dignity. And too often as Democrats, I feel that we are only framing ourselves in opposition to a platform that was already written by Republicans a long time ago. And for people who can't afford to even keep calling themselves New Yorkers, they don't hear enough about their own struggles in such an oppositional framing. And I think from LaGuardia to now, there are so many New Yorkers who do not see themselves in our local politics, even if they're already registered as Democrats. In the last mayoral primary, only 26% actually showed up to vote. And part of that is because they're not even being given the time of day. I mean, if you kind of speak in the language of a consultant and you're, and you're framing out who you're going to send your mail to and who you're going to knock, whose doors you're going to knock, you're going to be told triple prime voters, the people who've already shown up in those primary elections, you keep going back. And it creates this kind of cycle where if you don't vote, you don't get the time. And if you don't get the time, why do you, why do you even vote?

[Tommy Vietor]

So a couple months ago you were interviewed, right, when Cuomo jumped in in and the question was, he's got this name id, he jumps in in the lead. He was well ahead of you. And you said, just watch, this is going to close. Right? That like people believe the myth of Cuomo, but that once they actually learn more about, about you and once they learn more about his actual record, you will see a big shift. That is true, that has happened. Right. And so I have, I have two questions about that. One is how have you gotten people to come along? But then I want to get at something else, which is clearly, even now, you made so much headway, but there's a lot of people who you still haven't reached that clearly want whatever it is that story represents. And I'm wondering if you've thought about how to get more of those people on board.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. I think the way that we've bridged this gap, which was a few months ago, a 40 point gap in the final round of voting and is now down to two points, is that we have made sure that we go everywhere across New York City and we say the same thing, no matter what neighborhood, no matter what room, no matter what street, which is that this is a campaign to make the most expensive city in the United States affordable. This is a campaign that's going to freeze the rent for millions of tenants, make the slowest buses in the country fast and free, deliver universal childcare, and ultimately, one that's willing to work just as hard as New Yorkers. Because what we've also seen from Hendrick Cuomo's campaign is an inability to get outside of his $8,000 a month Midtown Manhattan apartment and a desire to instead have this mythology that he used public dollars to burnish speak for itself. And the problem with that is that when New Yorkers learn about his actual record, they have more questions than they have answers. And in these next, you know, less than two weeks, what's so exciting is that the volunteer operation that we have built up, which, you know, in the beginnings, we had maybe two people on staff, now we're managing more than 36,000 volunteers. That operation means that where it used to take us months to knock 150,000 doors, now we do that in a single week. And so in these final days, the way that we get to the 30% of New Yorkers who've yet to hear from us is we keep doing the things that got us here. We talk to everyone. We don't lecture, we listen, and we make sure that wherever there's an event, wherever there's an opportunity, were there.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah. So I was. And by the way, I just want to say that, like, I came in, like, I had questions about, oh, you know, how are you going to do free buses? And you have great answers for how, look, look, it's a hundred and it's over $100 billion budget, we can afford the cost of free buses. You have, like, I see how you are persuading people. In other words, I kind of see how you win. But I guess my second part of that question is I also see that there's. I see how you lose. Right. And sure, there's a lot of people who are learning about you and being pulled over to your side. Right. But clearly there's something about the story Cuomo is telling that appeals to people. Right. And it has to, to me, as some Kind of it's some intersection between like the, like pragmatism and toughness. And that somehow, because you have these ideas like universal childcare, free buses, I think some of your previous comments on Israel factor into this, that somehow you don't represent that kind of practical, hard nosed toughness.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, I think it's very much the story he's trying to tell. And what's allowed us an opportunity to get this close to him and to really be right where we want to win this race is that when we look, especially with, with regards to concerns around Donald Trump, we see too many echoes of that same concern pertaining to Andrew Cuomo. When we think about a super PAC that is largely funding his entire campaign, it's in large part bankrolled by the same billionaires who put Donald Trump back in the White House. And what I've told New Yorkers time and time again is the best way that we actually take on the authoritarianism coming out of D.C. is not by someone who has this bully Persona, but rather someone who has a complete independence from those very bullies. And I have experience dealing with these kinds of people because when I was elected as a state assembly member in my first year, I took on a bully. It happened to be Andrew Cuomo, who didn't want to tax billionaires and corporations, his donors, in order to fund the public schools that he had starved for years. And we overcame his opposition. We raised $4 billion in new revenue for those schools. And ultimately it showed me that so much of this is just a mirage. And it's a question of can we actually have a leader who's willing to fight for something, not just posture about it.

[Tommy Vietor]

So I saw you gave an interview where you talked about your housing plan. I think it might have been the same where you talked about LaGuardia. And basically you were asked, where is something, where is an issue where you've been wrong? And you talked about the need, along with investing in public housing to support more private development. And, you know, it led many to wonder whether you've been abundance pilled. And based on how online you are, you know what I mean? Are you abundance pilled? Are you somebody who, where are you on abundance?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think that there's a lot, there's a lot that that conversation has brought specifically around how hard or easy are we making it to actually tackle some of these issues? And I think sometimes it gets simplified and caricatured. But fundamentally, to me, the thing that's been most interesting is introducing a new lens of analysis around the bureaucracy And I think oftentimes the very things that we should care about on the left, we have allowed the right to make their own concerns. Bureaucracy, efficiency, waste. If you care about public goods, public service, these have to be your primary focuses because any evidence of that inefficiency is then a justification for the elimination of the public sector. And I think similarly, you know, if you think about the language of quality of life, it's often been understood as if it's a conservative concern, but in fact that's a concern at the bedrock of every working class person's life. They want to have a good quality of life. And these are not things in tension with our principles. In fact, they're the fulfillment of them. And I think abundance is really interesting in, in its really bringing that focus around housing particularly. And even just the whole thinking of single stairwell versus dual stairwell. Right. What are the, what are the very details that we often allied over that have a big impact on whether or not something can actually be brought to pencil?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, because when I went and looked at your platform on housing, one thing that jumped out at me is you talked about why we need to invest more in public housing and specifically the ways in which nycha, which is the New York City Housing Authority for people listening, has been underfunded at the local level, at the national level. But what I didn't see, and look, it's a, it's a platform on a campaign website. It's going to be a summary is sure, yes, we need to invest more in that. But also like it was what, last year that, that 70 people at NYCHA were charged with, I think, fraud and bribery. It's been taken over by the federal government at times because of how poorly run it is. Even under de Blasio, I believe it was the inspector general or some watchdog described it as the worst landlord in the city. And so it's like, how do you talk about all these, the importance of reinvesting in these institutions? And I'm just curious how you think about the need to reform them as well.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think it's critical. I don't think you can do one without the other. And I think that it is tempting at times to think of everything as a funding issue. And many things are funding issues. And yet we also know that there are a lot of dollars that we're investing that we are not actually seeing the intent with which they were invested being fulfilled. I mean, I know we're talking about nycha, but the single largest department in terms of spending within New York City's municipal budget is the Department of Education. And what, what we know is that too often there are politicians who will point to that scale of investment and say the answer here is to cut funding for teachers and students. But actually the answer here is to look at the immense amount of money that is being spent on duplicative contracts and consulting within the central department of Education, not actually what's going on in the classroom. And that's also what is of immense interest to me is how do we standardize so much of which has just been allowed to replicate itself for 60 different contracts for the same very thing that has created some of the waste and inefficiencies that then someone like Elon Musk can point to and say, this is why we have to tackle the very existence of a federal government.

[Tommy Vietor]

So that was, and to be honest, like, that was sort of what I like. I, I feel like there's, you know, a lot of places have figured out how to do free public transportation. Like it just. I see how that makes sense. And like, yes, let's have more people taking the bus. If you're gonna do congestion pricing, you have to make mass transit much better. We haven't done that.

[Jon Favreau]

Right.

[Tommy Vietor]

We have to deliver services. Sure. But then I see you wanna do public grocery stores and I look at how you say you're gonna do that and it's either because they don't pay tax or you get some sort of advantage as a buyer. And it's like, doesn't New York. You know what I first thought was, okay, two years from now, there's an article in the New York Post that says Mamdani's Soviet grocery store is two years late and 5 billion do over budget. Right. Like, is this really a city right now? You're gonna have a lot to do. Is it really a time to also be trying to figure out how to compete with, I don't know, Zabars?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I don't think we'd be competing with Zabars. But. But before I even get into groceries, I just have to get a commitment from you that when we make buses for. You're going to come and ride one with me.

[Tommy Vietor]

Sure, yeah. I mean, look, I'm more of a subway girl, but sure, I'll take a bus.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

So I think, think the point around grocery stores is there has to be more room for reasonable policy experimentation in how we're running our cities because we are losing them time and time again. And they're under attack every day by a Republican party that doesn't even see the need for cities at all. And ultimately my proposal, it won't end up in that billions of dollars late, although it will be in the New York Post because they'll write about me every single day for sure. And the reason it won't is because the proposal is actually $60 million. It's a pilot program for one store in each borough. And the reason I bring up the costing of it is it actually costs less than half of what the city's already set to spend on subsidizing corporate supermarkets. There's this program called City Fresh where the city will give subsidies. And they don't even require these supermarkets to accept SNAP or WIC to engage in collective bargaining to actually have cheaper groceries. It's all just, you know, give the money to corporations and hope and pray and as we know, when any.

[Tommy Vietor]

Well, give the money to people to spend at the grocery store. Right, you're describing it. It's give money to people to suspend at the grocery store.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

No, no, no, this is, this is subsidies to the supermarket.

[Tommy Vietor]

Oh, goes to the supermarket.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Subsidies to the supermarket. And it has the same intent. But, but my point is that with 60 million, what we could see is a different model, basically a public option for producer. And I'm someone who fundamentally, I believe in the possibility of so many of, of these ways that we can deliver dignity to New Yorkers. And also if this pilot does not fulfill that same possibility, the one that we've seen borne out in feasibility studies in Chicago and evidence in Kansas, then it's something you don't continue. But if it does succeed in actually guaranteeing cheaper groceries, which I believe it will, then I think that's something to scale. And the reason I think that's important is it's not just a crisis of affordability where New Yorkers will tell you they can't afford the same milk and eggs and bread they used to be able to four years ago. It's also a crisis of food deserts in New York City, especially for black and brown New Yorkers, Because I represent. We were talking about nycha. I represent the largest public housing development in North America, Queensbridge Houses. And I'll have constituents who'll ask me why is it that I can't find a grocery store where I can afford the producer within a five block radius, but I can find six fat food places? And I think this, this speaks to that as well. Where there's a racialized impact to this lack of access that we could be solving for at the same time as actually increasing union density and Delivering cheaper groceries.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, I guess like what it's like the goal, right, is to make sure everybody has access to affordable housing, affordable food, right? That, that there's a better standard of living in your quality of life in New York. But then you think, okay, well we're going to do these kind of public grocery stores which would be competing with private grocery stores. Does it make life harder for those businesses if you, if you freeze rent at the stabilized units, doesn't that mean that more people will stay in those units and the people that are looking for them won't have them? Won't it also drive up the rents in the non stabilized units like that? I guess like what I'm trying to see is like some of these seem like responses to a genuine crisis that are, that kind of deal with New York as it is right now in a moment. But don't actually in the long term lead to the answer, right, which is more grocery stores run that are affordable, more housing everywhere that's affordable.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think the, I would, I would share concerns if these were the exclusive answers to those questions. But to me, I think we, we desperately need places where New Yorkers can afford to buy produce. And the beauty of having a program where you pick one location in each borough is that you can solve for many things at the same time. It's not that you will put that grocery store right next to the other one that's already providing somewhat affordable goods. It's that they're, you know, you ask New Yorkers, they can tell you a place where they know I'm not going to go buy eggs there because that's five or six bucks more than if I went over there and I think to freezing the rent. And you're exactly right in that the goal here is to keep people in their homes. It is to ensure that tenants are not being pushed out. And I think the, the focus on rent stabilized units is twofold. One, because the mayor actually has the power to do this. We've seen a previous administration freeze the rent three times. But two, because the median household income in rent stabilized apartments is $60,000 and landlord profits of those very units went up by 12%. And freezing the rent would ensure that we return close to $7 billion back into the pockets of those working and middle class New Yorkers. And I say all this because as much as we both need to confront the crisis of the present and the future, we also have to understand that our inability to do so will lead us to replicate what we've already seen in the Past, which is hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers fleeing the city because they can't afford it. So to your larger point about housing, the answer to the housing crisis is not more vacancies in rent stabilized units. To me, it is building more housing such that we keep people in their home, have a rapid expansion of housing production that is both private sector and public sector driven. And what makes our campaign unique is that we do believe the public sector has a role, but we also think the private sector, it needs to be easier, as you were talking about, with abundance, for them to actually build. And that's, that's based on regulation and also on processes.

[Tommy Vietor]

So You've talked about 200,000 units of affordable housing, public housing. Cuomo's talked about 500,000. Zellner Myri has said a million. That's five times as many. Seems better. What do you think of that plan?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, I think, I think the other plans that you've mentioned are both building and preserving. The figure that I said is just building and it's just public sector. And I know that we'll actually surpass the 200,000 because we didn't want to put a number on the private sector. We think we have to change a number of zoning codes, specifically increasing density around mass transit hubs, ending requirements to build parking, upzoning, wealthier neighborhoods that haven't historically produced that kind of housing, and that all of those changes will actually create a significant increase in housing production. But the issue about putting forward a number as it pertains to developers is that I've just seen so many developments that, that have been stalled for so long and ultimately if they don't fulfill that number, the city is restricted in what it can do versus when I say the city is gonna build 200,000, I know that's our responsibility.

[Tommy Vietor]

So we talked about LaGuardia and sort of the sort of multi ethnic, multiracial coalition you've been getting. There was a very, I, I think very stupid moment during the debate where you were pressed, where everyone was saying where they're gonna visit first as mayor. And they all said Israel. You said you're gonna stick around New York and focus on New York, which makes sense to me. We had a controversy in Los Angeles. Our mayor was abroad. I don't understand why anyone gives a fuck where our mayors go abroad. Stupid to me. There was this, somebody posted this video and I wanted you to see it cause I thought it was very funny. Hey Anu, where are we going for dinner?

[Nicole Wallace]

Sushi or.

[Tommy Vietor]

I noticed you didn't say Tel Aviv.

[Nicole Wallace]

Now tell me, do you believe in.

[Jon Favreau]

Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state?

[Nicole Wallace]

What is it like being a raging anti Semite? Do you plan on visiting Israel anytime in the next few days?

[Tommy Vietor]

So that I, I think that's, that is like, that to me captures how dumb a lot of this has become and how much I think fear mongering there is about you and what you would actually do. So can you just talk a little bit about what you actually would do to face antisemitism in New York?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I appreciate this because there's, as you've said, been so many mischaracterizations and misconceptions, and frankly, they've been fueled by candidates like Andrew Cuomo, who just yesterday it was revealed his super PAC had a mailer that artificially lengthened and darkened my beard in sending it out to voters. And it's just blatant Islamophobia. And it's explains why so many Trump donors are bankrolling that campaign and these kinds of questions on the debate stage. They pretend as if they are in relation to the real issue of anti Semitism in our city, and yet they are weaponizing it to score political points. The truth of it is that antisemitism is something that has no place in the city, no place in this country. And as the mayor of this city, my responsibility will be to protect Jewish New Yorkers. And that is something that I promise to do. And it's something that I know is not just evidenced in the statistics we see. It's also in the fear that is felt by so many Jewish New Yorkers. I remember after October 7, a friend of mine was telling me about going to his synagogue for Shabbat services and hearing the door open behind him and the chill that went up his spine as he turned around to see who it was and whether they meant to harm him. And I had a conversation just weeks ago with a Jewish man in Williamsburg who told me that he's now started to lock the same door he had kept open for decades. And it's this sense of not knowing whether one is safe. And ultimately we need to protect each and every Jewish New Yorker, because what they deserve is what every New Yorker deserves, which is safety. And that's why at the core of our campaign's proposal to create a Department of Community Safety is to increase funding for anti hate crime programming by 800%, the largest of any campaign in this cycle. Because ultimately, we have to be judged by our actions, not just by the endless discourse about it all.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah. So, you know, you mentioned after October 7th, and, you know, you put out a statement after October 7th where you talked about mourning the dead in Israel and Palestine, but you also reserved any condemnation in that statement for Israel, talked about it as an apartheid state. You did not mention Hamas and the brutal terrorist attack. I hate Benjamin Netanyahu. I am disgusted by the atrocities being committed by Israel. But when I saw that statement, it made me worry in two ways. One is that you view it as some kind of a concession, to be honest, about Hamas, that it somehow hurts the Palestinian cause, the cause of peace. And two, you, as a politician who wants to lead a city with the largest population of Jewish people outside of Israel, didn't worry enough about their sentiments, either morally or just as people. You need to be part of your coalition to get done these big and important things that. That. That you. That. That you weren't doing the work necessary to build the credibility and trust with that community on this issue or any other issue you're trying to win people over on. I'm just wondering what your reaction is to that.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You know, I made clear in the days after October 7, especially as there was a protest the next day where I said that I condemned the killing of civilians and I condemned any rhetoric that made light of such killing. Because ultimately, any cause for freedom and justice and safety is one that has to be universal in its application of those things. It's why I've called October 7th what it was, which is a horrific war crime. And ultimately, the place from which all of my policies come from is a belief in international law as the foundation of how we can actually chart out a better future. And what you will see from our campaign is that we have, in fact, been able to build a coalition that reflects the beauty and the breadth of this city, including so many Jewish New Yorkers. And that's not just evidenced by endorsements from Jewish organizations, but also that this plan I was telling you about around hate crimes, the Department of Community Safety, that's a plan that comes out of so many of those conversations. And I think, to be clear, you know, I do not see. I do not think that there is any relationship between condemning Hamas, which I've done time and time again, and believing in the necessity of universal human rights for each and every person, and that also including Palestinians. I think, in fact, what I've found is that most New Yorkers have that same desire for consistency and applying it to all people and thinking that, you know, in the words of Noy Katzman, whose brother was killed by Hamas on October 7th. That we must never give up on the conviction that all life is equally precious, Israeli and Palestinian, Jewish and Arab, and we must never lose hope of a brighter, more peaceful future. And ultimately, that is what underpins this campaign and my politics at large.

[Tommy Vietor]

So I don't want to describe your bagel order as anti Semitic. I don't think it is. But you said poppy seed bagel, scallion cream cheese, some pulp Tropicana on the side, and toasted. Now, you know, we make the bagels in the city. They're right there. They're made in an oven nearby. They're done. They're cooked. Right. You know that you don't have to toast them.

[Jon Favreau]

I know.

[Tommy Vietor]

Especially if they're fresh.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I know.

[Tommy Vietor]

Right?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I know.

[Tommy Vietor]

So what? What the fuck?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Look, I think the thing that New Yorkers hate more than a politician they disagree with is one they can't trust. And I just want to be honest with you. This is what I've been doing. I grew up in Morningside Heights, would go to absolute bagels. Rest in peace. Best bagel place in New York City. This is what I did. And for that, I hope to repent on this show.

[Tommy Vietor]

And you know that, like, they're not like the Entenmanns that are frozen in the freezer. Like, these are made in the oven. They're nice. They're good. They're good. Out of the. Have you had one out of the oven? You know, they're like. This is the whole point of you're in new. I don't. I don't like. And by the way, you're not the only one. Oh, and just so we're clear, your answer is bad, but Cuomo's answer was fucking insane. He ordered a bacon, cheese, and egg on an English muffin, not a bagel. The. The. The ingredients were in the wrong order. And he comment.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think a guy who can't even say a bacon, egg, and cheese is someone who's clearly, you know, hasn't been living in the city for more than 30 years. He just moved back here, and I think we'd see that in his order.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, it's a lot to think about. It's a lot to think about. What is your.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

He said he stays away from a bagel to keep his girlish figure.

[Tommy Vietor]

Well, that was. That was the other thing he said. I order a bacon, cheese and egg, I think he said, and then I bake it off. Bacon off. What the. What kind of waste is that? What are we doing?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You'd think that would be the Muslim candidate saying that, but no, it's not.

[Tommy Vietor]

No, it's not. It's not. What's your. Do you have a bodega order?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, it's egg and cheese on a roll with jalapenos.

[Tommy Vietor]

Jalapenos. Interesting.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Come on, give me something.

[Tommy Vietor]

No, it's okay. I don't. I don't dislike it. I don't dislike it.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Is that a salt?

[Tommy Vietor]

Oh, no, no, not on my. I don't think so. I don't think so. I mean, I. Yeah, no, I gotta check. I'm, you know, I'm listening and I'm learning. Yeah, I don't think. I don't think so. But maybe it is. Maybe it is. Maybe that's something I have to deal with.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'm just opening the door here. If you don't like spice, what does it say?

[Tommy Vietor]

That's right. That's right. Zoran Mamdani, thank you so much for your time. Really good to meet you. Good luck. Just to be clear, we've asked Andrew Cuomo to come on, and he hasn't responded, probably because we'd ask him a lot of questions about his accusations of sexual harassment. So that's probably why him and his.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Campaign made the correct assessment a long time ago that the less New Yorkers see of him, the better his odds. And the more they're seeing of him now, the worse they are.

[Tommy Vietor]

All right, thank you so much.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Thanks so much. This is a pleasure.

[Jon Favreau]

That's our show for today. Thanks to Zoran Mamdani for coming on, and a huge thanks to Nicole Wallace for joining me for the show. Everyone, check out the best people wherever you get your podcasts. Catch Deadline White House every weekday at 4pm Eastern. I'm gonna be back in the feed on Sunday with a special episode talking to Harvard political scientist Erica Chenoweth, who's done some fantastic research about the most effective ways to bring down authoritarian regimes. It should be a great conversation. Check it out. We'll talk to you then. If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad free or get access to our subscriber discord and exclusive podcasts, consider joining our Friends of the pod [e-mail] friends or subscribe on Apple Podcasts directly from the Pod Save America feed. Also, be sure to follow Pod Save America on TikTok, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube for full episodes, bonus content and more. And before you hit that next button, you can help boost this episode by leaving us a review and by sharing it with friends and family. Pod Save America is a crooked media production. Our producers are David Toledo, Saul Rubin, and Emma Ilech Frank. Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Reid Churlin is our executive edition editor and Adrienne Hill is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Kanter is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Madelyn Herringer is our head of news and programming. Matt de Groat is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Hayley Jones, Ben Heathcote, Molly Lobel, Kiril Palaviv, Kenny Moffatt, and David Toll. Our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Hey, I'm journalist Sam Sanders.

[Tommy Vietor]

I'm poet Saeed Jones.

[Jon Favreau]

And I'm producer Zach Stafford. And we are the hosts of a podcast called Vibe Check.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

On Vibe Check, we talk about everything. News, culture and entertainment and how it all feels.

[Jon Favreau]

That's right, we talk about any and.

[Tommy Vietor]

Everything on our show, from real life.

[Jon Favreau]

Issues like grief to music and movie critiques. And that barely scratches the surface. Yes, indeed. And it doesn't stop there.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

We have got a lot to say.

[Tommy Vietor]

So join our group, chat, come to life, follow and listen to Vibe Check wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nicole Wallace]

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

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[Jon Favreau]

That's less than 50%.

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But it's more than zero percent.

[Jon Favreau]

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