Trump Celebrates High Gas Prices

Summary

Pod Save America – "Trump Celebrates High Gas Prices"

Date: March 13, 2026
Hosts: Jon Favreau, Dan Pfeiffer, Tommy Vietor
Special Guest/Clip: Ben Rhodes, plus clips from other podcasts (Joe Rogan, Runaway Country)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the consequences and political fallout from President Trump's ongoing war in Iran and the resulting global oil crisis, with gas prices surging and considerable instability at home and abroad. The hosts break down the disturbing new realities of U.S. foreign and domestic policy: escalating conflict, civilian casualties, disastrous messaging, and the administration's prioritizing propaganda and loyalty over strategic competence. They also address growing public (and influential podcaster) backlash, especially among young men, and highlight Republican infighting and extremism on issues from immigration to anti-Muslim rhetoric. Infused with Pod Save America's signature mix of biting wit and serious analysis, the episode pulls no punches on the incompetence and amorality of the current administration.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s War in Iran: Escalation Without a Plan

• Context: The U.S. has launched "Operation Epic Fury" in Iran. Civilian death toll in the thousands, including over 100 children killed by a U.S. missile strike on an elementary school. Seven U.S. troops dead, $11.3 billion spent in just the first week. (03:37–05:58)
• Intelligence shows Iranian leadership is mostly intact; Ayatollah vows more attacks. Trump claims: "We've won the war" and uses the operation's name as an applause line at rallies. (06:04–06:15)
• Ayatollah threatens revenge against U.S./Israel, and the Strait of Hormuz remains closed, pushing oil to $100/barrel and potentially higher.

Quote:
"If you can't tell bad news to the President, then the President is going to operate from a false set of facts going forward... That’s an even bigger problem when that president lives in a hermetically sealed right wing news bubble."
—Dan Pfeiffer (11:29)

Analysis:

• The hosts slam the administration for lacking strategy, clear objectives, or even competent messaging. There’s a consensus that Trump "stumbled ass backward into something that could become World War III." (07:41–08:08)
• Discussion on how Iran's control of the Strait of Hormuz was predicted in every "war game simulation" for decades — Trump ignored all best advice. (11:29–12:41)

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2. Oil Crisis and Trump’s "Celebration" of High Prices

• Strait of Hormuz Crisis: Iranians laying mines and attacking tankers. U.S. Navy cannot guarantee safe passage, and administration messaging is inconsistent at best. (13:22–14:50)
• Trump’s Response: "The Straits are in great shape…The United States is the largest oil producer in the world by far. So when oil prices go up, we make a lot of money." (15:12–15:56)
  • The hosts rip apart this logic: Oil profits go to companies, not the government or American people. Higher prices hurt everyone except oil companies.

Quote:
"If big oil is getting rich, that is a win for our country. In his mind, if companies make money and the American consumer has to pay more... then that’s a win."
—Dan Pfeiffer (15:56)

Memorable Moment:
Tommy Vietor parodies the administration’s line: "If there are 10 mines and 12 ships go through, at least two of them are making it." (18:59)

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3. Safety, Terror, and Propaganda

• Iranian Plots and U.S. Domestic Attacks: FBI warned of Iranian “aspirations” for a drone attack on California; recent domestic terrorist events possibly linked to international tensions. (19:08–21:45)
• Propaganda Tactics: The administration’s constant release of “video game footage,” triumphalist memes, and “snuff porn videos” of missile strikes—seen as a way to numb the public and radicalize adversaries. (21:45–24:47)

Quote:
"It’s nihilism and it’s really scary."
—Tommy Vietor (24:47)

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4. Public and Influencer Backlash – The Joe Rogan Effect

• Young Men & Podcaster Turn: Focus group data & Joe Rogan clips illustrate disillusionment among young male Trump supporters, many of whom feel betrayed by the pro-war, high-price agenda. (27:53–31:00)
• Rogan: "It’s terrifying…It’s the opposite of what we were told…If oil prices spike, we’re fucked." (28:11)

Quote:
"The group that has abandoned Trump the fastest are young men…Trump ran on lowering prices and then has found diabolical ways to keep raising them. If you thought the tariffs were bad, wait till you go to the gas pump this week."
—Dan Pfeiffer (30:57)

• Call for Dem Strategy: Urges Democrats to reclaim antiwar messaging and avoid “Commander in Chief” bluster that doesn’t align with public sentiment. (31:00–36:28)

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5. Republicans on Immigration, Deportations, and Culture Wars

• Retreat on Mass Deportations: White House advises Republicans to stop talking about mass deportations; House Speaker Mike Johnson downplays policy as a “hiccup” with Latino voters. (44:26–46:50)
• Messaging Problems: Trump’s policies are unpopular, and attempts to pin blame on previous Democratic policies are failing, as most voters remember the Biden era as better. (46:50–47:46)

Quote:
"Do you think cashless bail is going to tip the elections for you? These guys are so far up their own asses it’s like hard to see straight."
—Dan Pfeiffer (47:45)

• Save America Act & Filibuster Follies: Trump’s demands for a national voter ID law, ban on mail-in ballots, and anti-trans provisions stall in the Senate. John Cornyn flip-flops but still lacks support. (50:06–53:19)
• Predictions: Trump will likely attempt an executive order, fueling post-midterms conspiracy/fraud narratives. (53:50–54:48)

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6. Crisis of Decency – Anti-Muslim Rhetoric and GOP Extremism

• Multiple GOP officials openly express anti-Muslim views; many refuse to condemn. (54:48–57:11)
• Focus on how this bigotry is being normalized and the political necessity to call it out and deliver “fierce, powerful political punishment” to enablers. (57:11–59:10)

Quote:
"It is an effort to make anti-Muslim bigotry socially acceptable... Democrats should deliver fierce, powerful political punishment on the people who are enabling this."
—Dan Pfeiffer (57:11)

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7. The Doge Bro Tech Disaster

• Elon Musk's Doge Crew: Incompetent tech bros used ChatGPT to gut NEH funding after a “does this relate to DEI” prompt, firing 65% of staff and canceling $100M in grants. (62:23–65:48)
• Data Breaches: Whistleblower exposes a Doge staffer in Social Security stealing a database with 500 million Americans’ sensitive info—jokes about expecting a pardon if caught. (68:48–70:15)

Quote:
"Just some of the worst, dumbest people were given the most important jobs and with incredible consequences."
—Dan Pfeiffer (64:53)

• Political Relevance: The hosts call for running hard against “Silicon Valley clowns”—predict massive spending by tech and crypto in future elections, warn of further dangers.

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8. Footwear Follies – Trump, Shoes, and Small Dick Energy

• Trump’s obsession with Florsheim shoes—gifting wrong sizes to senior officials, including Marco Rubio, leading to viral photos of Rubio tripping over oversized footwear. (70:49–73:49)
• Aging Dictator Vibes: The hosts note how Trump’s fixation on trivialities like ballroom décor and shoes is symptomatic of a leader in decline and a “declining empire.” (73:52–74:24)

Memorable Exchange:
"Trump gives these shoes to everyone as a gift, and then they're all stuck wearing their shoes around, in Marco's case, that don't fit him."
—Tommy Vietor (72:14)

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Notable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “There was no argument for this. There was no strategic imperative, no threat. We just...Trump just stumbled ass backward into something that could become World War III.”
  —Dan Pfeiffer (07:41)
• "High prices are good. And just, it is worth stepping back and dissecting that truth, because...if big oil is getting rich, that is a win for our country. In [Trump’s] mind…"
  —Dan Pfeiffer (15:56)
• “If there are 10 mines and 12 ships go through, at least, at least two of them are making it.”
  —Dan Pfeiffer (18:59)
• “It’s nihilism and it’s really scary.”
  —Tommy Vietor (24:47)
• “Do you think cashless bail is going to tip the elections for you? These guys are so far up their own asses it’s like hard to see straight.”
  —Dan Pfeiffer (47:45)
• “Just some of the worst, dumbest people were given the most important jobs and with incredible consequences.”
  —Dan Pfeiffer (64:53)
• "Trump gives these shoes to everyone as a gift, and then they're all stuck wearing their shoes around, in Marco's case, that don't fit him."
  —Tommy Vietor (72:14)

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Major Timestamps

• 03:01 – Show proper begins: Iran war origins, civilian and military toll, administration spin
• 06:04 – Dissecting "Operation Epic Fury," war messaging, and lack of strategy
• 10:21 – Oil market shocks, Strait of Hormuz crisis
• 15:12 – Trump "celebrates" high gas prices
• 18:59 – Satirical take: "If there are 10 mines and 12 ships..."
• 21:45 – Propaganda and video game meme discussion
• 27:53 – Joe Rogan, Gen Z backlash
• 44:26 – Republican messaging on mass deportations
• 50:06 – Filibuster drama, Save America Act
• 54:48 – GOP anti-Muslim statements, Democratic response
• 62:23 – Doge admin tech disasters
• 68:48 – Social Security data breach
• 70:49 – Marco Rubio’s shoes and Trump’s dictator vibes

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Memorable Moments

• Satirical breakdown of Trump’s logic on oil prices—hosts laughing in disbelief.
• Dissection of “video game” war propaganda as both numbing and radicalizing.
• The viral Rubio shoe story as metaphor for GOP’s sycophancy and Trump’s descent into triviality.
• Unanimous, explicit scorn for incompetent tech bros, summarizing the current tech-government relationship.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode chronicles the cascading failures of Trump-era governance: the chaotic and gruesome war in Iran, economic self-sabotage disguised as victory, information mismanagement, vulnerable domestic security, and a culture prioritizing political spectacle over integrity or competence. The hosts draw sharp contrasts between the administration’s self-serving messaging and the harsh realities felt by ordinary Americans—and urge Democrats to reclaim antiwar, pro-democracy rhetoric. The episode is a blistering, unfiltered look at a country experiencing not just governmental but moral crisis, wrapped in Pod Save America’s trademark blend of gallows humor and urgency.

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For a full transcript, email [e-mail].

Transcript

[Jon Favreau]

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[Host of Runaway Country (possibly a guest or correspondent)]

The country feels like it's falling apart right before our eyes and the people inside it are being silenced. So we're going to East 26th street and Nicollet Avenue which is where Alex Preddy was executed by ICE and Border Patrol. That is not a headline. That is a human life and it is all happening right now. Do you worry about your own safety being involved in all this?

[Jon Favreau]

Yes.

[Tommy Vietor]

But it doesn't really feel like there's

[Jon Favreau]

another option, you know.

[Ben Rhodes]

And of course they use a 5 year old child as bait. And of course they're doing all these horrible bad things because they don't know what they're doing. They've been told that they're going to get rid of the worst of the worst. Then they have absolute immunity. And they've been told that nothing they do will they ever be held accountable for.

[Host of Runaway Country (possibly a guest or correspondent)]

On my show, Runaway country, we go where the headlines hit home. From communities under threat to the people fighting to be heard. New episodes of Runaway country drop every Thursday. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Hey, Sal. Hank.

[Tommy Vietor]

What's going on?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

We haven't worked a case in years. I just bought my car at Carvana and it was so easy. Too easy. Think something's up? You tell me. They got thousands of options, found a great car at a great price.

[Tommy Vietor]

Uh huh.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And it got delivered the next day. It sounds like Carvana just makes it easy to buy your car, Hank. Yeah, you're right. Case closed.

[Tommy Vietor]

Buy your car today on Carvana.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Delivery fees may apply.

[Tommy Vietor]

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

[Tommy Vietor]

On today's show, we'll talk about Trump's declaration that we've won the war in Iran, which is tricky to square with the new Ayatollah's promise to keep fighting and keep the Strait of Hormuz closed as oil hits $100 a barrel again. But don't worry, Trump also said high oil prices are a good thing. We'll talk about his famed political instincts and how it's all playing with the voters he needs, especially young men. Then the White House warns Republicans not to talk about mass deportations as they run for reelection. The Doge bags are finally being held accountable. Maybe.

[Jon Favreau]

And.

[Tommy Vietor]

And why little Marco is wearing shoes that are too big. That was enjoyable. That was enjoyable. I can't wait for that story. Also, please consider becoming a subscriber if you haven't already, so that you don't miss out on any crooked content. Friend of the Pod subscribers, get our new extra episode of Pod Save America called Pod Save America Only Friends. We got a new episode in the feed right now. Tommy and I did an episode on Wednesday, so check that out and go subscribe. You also get access to all of our excellent substack newsletters like Pod Save America. Open tabs and ad free episodes of all your favorite crooked pods. You also get to feel good about supporting one of the few media outlets left that Bari Weiss isn't in charge of. So head to crooked.com friends and subscribe today. All right, let's talk about how Trump's Iran war is going. 2000 people are now dead, mostly civilians, hundreds of children, including over 100 little girls, who our government has now determined a US missile strike killed when it hit their elementary school. Seven American troops are dead, 140 have been wounded, eight severely wounded, many with brain injuries. Our government says that the first week of this war has cost us $11.3 billion with a B, more than a third of what it would have cost to prevent 22 million Americans from seeing their premiums double by extending the Obamacare subsidies Instead, we spent it on this war. And our intel agencies say that for the $11 billion we've spent, Iran's leadership is still largely intact and not at risk of imminent collapse. This is per Reuters. On that note, we got the first public statement from the new, younger, more extreme Ayatollah who vowed to take revenge on Israel and America. This is a day after the FBI issued an urgent warning to local law enforcement that, quote, Iran allegedly aspired to conduct a surprise attack on California using drones fired from a ship off the coast. And Trump said that he's been briefed on the existence of terrorist sleeper cells in America, but, quote, we know where most of them are. I think naturally the President's public remarks this week have reflected the seriousness of, of the crisis at hand.

[Ben Rhodes]

Operation Epic Fury, is that a great name?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, it's only good if you win, you know, you can only do. And we've won, let me say we've won.

[Ben Rhodes]

You know, you never like to say

[Dan Pfeiffer]

too early, you won, we won, we

[Ben Rhodes]

won the bet in the first hour, it was over.

[Tommy Vietor]

Won the first hour, first hour. He's now, he's now using the name of the military operation that has led to a gigantic war in the Middle East. The biggest US Deployment since the Iraq war. Seven Americans are dead, hundreds wounded, thousands of people dead in the Middle east. And he's using it as an applause line at a rally. You tired of all the winning yet, Dan?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I would admittedly say that I have pretty low expectations for Donald Trump on any issue, particularly one as complicated as the Middle East. But I have to say even I am blown away by what a gigantic clusterfuck this is. Just at every single level, at every point, they have screwed this up. The military is obviously doing what it's supposed to be doing. They are executing the mission. Obviously not flawlessly given the missile that hit the girls school. But it's just the messaging around it is terrible. There seems to be no strategy. We are two weeks in and there's still no definition of victory. Trump can't describe what's happening in any coherent way. And it seems to be spiraling out of control in a way that has going to have really serious short, medium term implications for the world and Americans, American safety, security and our economy and potentially dramatic long term consequences for the world order. The shape of the Middle east, our allies both in the region and in the world. I mean, it's just an absolute mess. And the thing about it is it's one of the worst own goals in history. There was no Argument for this, there was no strategic imperative, no threat. We just. Trump just stumbled ass backward into something that could become World War iii.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, when you listen to some administration officials like Marco Rubio, and the White House has been putting this out as well. They say the objectives now are to destroy Iran's navy, which they have almost done, to seriously degrade their ballistic missile capabilities. So destroy the missiles, destroy the factories that make the missiles. I guess they have made good progress in doing that. And then the other objective is making sure they can never ever build or seek a nuclear weapon again. They have not done anything else on that front.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And that's an impossible test. Like, what does that even mean?

[Tommy Vietor]

Because you can't do that with airstrikes alone. You'd need ground troops. We don't have ground troops so far. Obviously that would be a terrible idea. But the enriched uranium is still there. And so that hasn't been achieved. And you know, the goal of regime change, which was never an official goal, though Donald Trump talked about it all the time, and now there's reporting saying the Israelis think it's a goal. Benjamin Netanyahu wants regime change for sure. And now the Americans are saying, well, it'd just be a, it'd be a bonus, be a bonus. But either way doesn't seem like it's close to happening. Cuz we got the Ayatollah vowing revenge and the Strait of Hormuz continue to be closed and attacks from Iran continuing to happen. There's an Axios story about all this, like what Trump's thinking. Because the way we know what Trump's thinking now is he goes to events like this and says crazy shit. And then I guess he just takes the call of any reporter who dials him up. He talked to Axios and someone told Axios, sorry, maybe this wasn't Trump, but someone told Axios. A source who spoke to Trump on Tuesday evening described the President as, quote, enthusiastic about continuing the war for at least three to four weeks before making a decision. Three to four more weeks. We're going to continue this into mid April. What's going to happen in that time period? If this has been a clusterfuck after fucking a couple weeks now, think about

[Dan Pfeiffer]

what it's going to do to the oil markets. Like there's an estimate out today that if the straight is closed through April, oil will reach $140 a barrel. I mean, this is the greatest shock to our oil supply in the history of the world. And with a global economy that's already fragile, I mean, it's an absolute disaster. And there's just no. Like you say, Marco Rubio has articulated some set of goals, but he doesn't even really goals. That's just slightly more coherent than the verbal applesauce that Trump is putting out every day. And he's the person who's supposed to know like there is a world. We've seen this in other things with Trump where what he says makes no sense, but then there are people behind him who are saying things that it's not a worldview we would agree with, not one that we think would even be effective, but it is a, it is a, it's like a plan of some kind. And here there is none.

[Tommy Vietor]

What do you make of the the New York Times story headlined How Trump and his Advisors Miscalculated Iran's Response to War because there's like I wanted to laugh and then I wanted to scream when I realized that it was all reality. Even though it sounds so fucking buffoonish the whole piece.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

This is one of those things that I do think is scarier if you've actually worked in a White House and you know how it works. And they obviously seem very stupid. These are unserious people who don't even take their jobs that seriously. We've been war gaming and thinking out what a war with Iran would look like since the day the Ayatollah took over in 1979. And there was a reason it hasn't happened in all this time. It's because these are the consequences. They can control the Strait of Hormuz if that closes down every war gaming of this has shown this to be the case, but they did it anyway. They ignored all of that so called expert advice to go forward. And there's a part in there to me, that I think is the most scary. It says in there that a lot of aides think this is going very poorly, but they were afraid to tell Trump because he keeps saying it's going great. And if you can't tell bad news to the President, then the President is going to operate from a false set of facts going forward. And that's an even bigger problem when that president lives in a hermetically sealed right wing news bubble that tells him what he wants to hear so he has no information that actually would allow him to make a decision that would move this in a better direction because he thinks it's in a good direction.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, it's incredibly unsettling, scary that we're living through this. And also the fact that even if Trump wanted to stop the war today. Even if he said, okay, we're declaring victory and we've bombed everything we can bomb and all that, like, Iran's not gonna stop. The regime is in place. They're gonna stop firing missiles all over the Middle East. They're gonna stop trying to incite terror attacks, have their proxies incite terror attacks all over the world. It's just the idea that the war stops when Donald Trump says it stops is just so fucking stupid and flies in the face of all history.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Also, the reports are the Iranians are mining the Strait. And once you put mines in the strait, it's not countries that decide what they go through the Strait, it's companies who have borrowed tens of millions of dollars to buy these tankers. And what guarantees do they have that they're. Their tankers are not going to run into mines. So even if we were to stop tomorrow, are we going to trust the Iranians to go tell us where all the mines were so we can go pick them up?

[Tommy Vietor]

Of course not, no. So it seems like they have laid at least 10 mines in the Strait of Hormuz. According to reports, they're also just firing tankers. They've had a couple tankers who are going through the strait. Anyway. The Secretary of Energy this week posted a tweet saying the Navy has accompanied its first ship oil tanker, through the Strait of Hormuz and then immediately had to take down that tweet because it wasn't true. So don't know what's going on there. He just announced again, before we started recording, that the Navy will be sort of accompanying tankers through the Strait of Hormuz. I don't know why that's like a magical solve, especially if they are laying mines in the Strait of Hormuz, because they can lay mines without Navy ships. Iran can. They can do it with smaller ships. So I don't really know that that's going to. That's going to solve it. You mentioned, you know, oil prices hit $100 a barrel again, and the IRGC, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, has threatened to push prices up to $200 per barrel, which would cause gas prices to exceed $5 a gallon. So that's something to look forward to. But, you know, Trump was asked about this complete fucking mess in the Strait of Hormuz the other night, and here's what he said.

[Ben Rhodes]

The Straits are in great shape.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

We've knocked out all of their boats. I think we're in very good.

[Ben Rhodes]

We're in very good shape.

[Tommy Vietor]

The Straits are in great shape.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

So everyone, that's what people are saying.

[Tommy Vietor]

The straits are in great shape. Guess there's a couple now. President followed up those comments with a post. Was the post to correct himself? Was the post to offer more information? No. Here's what the post said. The United States is the largest oil producer in the world by far. So when oil prices go up, we make a lot of money. Never thought of it that way. Dan, are you impressed with Trump's cunning jujitsu there? Actually, higher prices are good.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Saying for months that Trump needed a message on affordability and now he has one. High prices are good. And just, it is worth just like stepping back and like, I hate to say this, but dissecting that truth, because it does speak to his, like, how his brain works, which is, if prices go up, who makes more money? Oil companies. And how do they make more money? Because prices have gone up on American consumers. So if big oil is getting rich, that is a win for our country. In his mind, if companies make money and the American consumer has to pay more in higher prices so those companies can make money, then that's a win.

[Tommy Vietor]

It's so. I don't even know if he really believes that. Part of it is this. He sees everything through his own interests and the country. He now equates the country to him. And so if the country makes money, if some people are making money, then he can point to that, then everything's wonderful. Because it's sort of like what he does with the tariff things. Like, we were, we were being ripped off by the tariffs, and now all the money's coming in, the money's pouring in from the tariffs. It's like, even though, you know, Americans are paying the extra tariffs, just like Americans are paying the higher gas prices. But as long as money's coming into companies, America's great. Things are going. Things are going well, his country's going well. He did a good job because America's rich now.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

But at least with the tariffs, the money does go to the US Government here. The tariffs just go to the Exxon guy or the higher prices go. The Exxon guy. Like what? I mean, I think that obviously we think the terrorists are stupid, but you can at least point to, like, an increase in revenue for the federal government here. The government gets no money. In fact, we're getting less money than we should because we've given all these tax breaks and subsidies to big oil anyway, and the big oil companies get rich. And so I, I think, I think you are correct that what is happening here is like a heavy dose of cope to try to explain away the terrible situation. Say, oh, no, no, no, don't worry. $140 barrel oil in the middle of a rapidly escalating global crisis in the Middle east is fine. Look how it's good for like, I think that's the main thing happening here. But there is, I think, something about his mentality which is if American companies get rich, that's good for America and that doesn't work if the people who are making. If the way the companies get rich is by charging more money to American consumers who are already struggling with high prices.

[Tommy Vietor]

And they also don't have a lot of tools in the toolbox left to do anything about this. They announced a release of like the largest release ever from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. And oil still went up to $100 a barrel. So it's like, I don't really know how. I mean, I guess they can start doing, you know, maybe they'll do export controls on oil to keep the oil here. And that's like a short term solution, but that's the, that long term, that's even worse for us. So like this, nothing really to do here except, I don't know, just continue to tell ships to sack up and take a chance going through the Strait of Hormuz, which is basically what Trump and Brian Kilmeade, the Fox and Friends hosts, were doing. He's like, you just got to these ships, got to have some balls and just go through the Strait of Hormuz. And if you get blown up, you get blown up. They can't get all of us. Right?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's right. If there are 10 mines and 12 ships go through, at least, at least two of them are making it.

[Tommy Vietor]

I have to say the. We talked about this a little bit yesterday, but the whole. We kind of skipped over the FBI bulletin about California and the drones.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

Now, the White House has since said that this was like unverified intelligence. And of course, we can believe everything the White House says. And Gavin Newsom said that he had heard about it and everyone's on high alert. It seems like this was intelligence from February that the Iranians aspired to do this. I do think that would require somehow getting a ship out to the west coast of California and then the drones and who knows? But I do think that one got a lot of Americans attention. I think that might have broken through.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It broke through to the school mom group chat in my house. Yes. I had some questions for Tommy and Ben from a Lot of people, they needed good responses. And then Hallie didn't trust me to do it so she wanted me to screenshot their text and send it to them just like as proof that things were okay.

[Tommy Vietor]

I mean I also saw in that what's resonating newsletter that posts about and stories about that FBI warning were like one of the most shared stories yesterday by far. Because I just think that Americans right now don't like the idea of this war. They don't like the idea of spending a lot of money on this war. They don't like the idea of high oil prices. They certainly don't like the idea of like American troops risking their lives and potentially dying in this war. Seven already have. But if there start being credible threats to the homeland and you know, terror attacks, God forbid, like that's when things are shit's really going to hit the fan. And you know, the fact that Trump was talking about sleeper cells and terrorist sleeper cells and oh, we've got an eye on most of them I think is fucking terrifying. We're sitting here and just today there was a shooter at Old Dominion University in Virginia and they believe that was someone who was ISIS inspired and had been in jail already for some ISIS inspired activities back I think as far as 2017. Got out of jail in 2024. There was also just an attack on a synagogue in Michigan. And early reports say it is a naturalized Lebanese American who was I guess just last night posting pictures of relatives who died in the Israeli attacks on Lebanon. Which is just fucking horrific that now we are seeing potentially attacks or attempted attacks play out across the United States. And I don't know, I just have a real fear that this is just the beginning of that.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

No, I mean that is the. It's not just that the war is happening. It's the way in which Tommy and I talked about this on YouTube yesterday. But it's also the way they're messaging the war. Right. It's like seemed almost designed. It's the video game footage, the triumphalism, the snuff porn videos of things blowing up that they keep tweeting out as if it's like a joke. And that seems designed to radicalize people against the United States whether they're in Iran or elsewhere.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yes, that is certainly the, the scariest effect. I also think I've been thinking about this a lot because it's really bothered me the video game shit. And they keep doing it and some of them are, some of them are like sports related and so they'll show like NFL clips. And they'll, like, cut it with, like, every touchdown. They'll cut it with, like, a missile that hit. Like, actual footage of a missile that hit. They did it with baseball, too. Like, baseball highlights. And they just keep doing this shit. I kind of think it's meant to numb us to the real consequences and risks of war. And this idea that, like, oh, it's all fun. It's no big deal. You're scrolling through your feed, you're seeing a million different things anyway. And when you see stuff about war, it's just one more thing and it's a game and we're winning it and everything's awesome and America's fucking great and let's keep going. And I realized that, like, every government uses propaganda to sell war, but this is like. Feels like it's propaganda for the sake of propaganda just to, like, not even sell a war, but just to convey a message that everyone should go about their business and not think this is a big deal and not worry about all the scary headlines that you're reading or all the people who are upset about this. Just like, we're great. We're fucking awesome. Good luck.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think you are correct that that's the net effect of what they're doing. I think that gives them way too much credit for a strategy here. I think it's just a bunch of fucking incel grapers who got social media jobs at the White House just doing shit to, like, get like, kudos in their local discords. It's so stupid. It serves no actual purpose. And I think even the. I mean, there's. Because of the way the media works now and because of the fact this is happening at random place where there is essentially almost no western media at all and they can shut the Internet down in a second. Like, this already could just be happening without us ever seeing anything.

[Tommy Vietor]

Right.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's just, you know, but they put out the. I think they put out these videos because they're unserious, terrible people. Like, that's what it. Like they don't. There's just.

[Tommy Vietor]

No, but it has been.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It has.

[Tommy Vietor]

I mean, it has been their digital strategy since their campaign in 2024 that they have carried into the White House and they've done it around deportations and. Yeah, it is a bunch of incel gripers. Like, those are the people who are not now staffing the government at some of the highest levels, but their view on, like, communication, if you want to call it a few. Like, it doesn't have to be like a strategy. That was on a whiteboard anywhere. But the way they do this is just pump out shit troll people. Everything's lol. Nothing matters.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, that's.

[Tommy Vietor]

That is the, that is the. That is their, that is their strategy per se. And it's just, it's, it's nihilism and it's really scary.

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[Tommy Vietor]

Despite all these efforts, the war still isn't popular with most Americans, including some prominent podcasters whose support for Trump in 2024 probably helped him make inroads with younger Gen Z men. The most prominent, of course, is Joe Rogan, who has been on something of a tear about Iran. Let's listen.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's terrifying and it's exactly the opposite of what we were told leading into this administration, that it's gonna be America first. Right. And no more unnecessary foreign wars. It's gonna be bad. I mean, if oil prices spike, we're fucked. Yeah. You know, and the Republicans are really fucked. Yeah. He's 80. He doesn't have much to lose.

[Tommy Vietor]

Right.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Last term. That's the scary thing about old leaders. You know, you're making decisions for babies and children and the future of the world, and you've only got 10, maybe 10 years left on. On earth. I mean, the last part is quite like telling of our times in a pretty powerful way.

[Tommy Vietor]

It is. It also just made me think, you know, who wasn't 80, who's still not 80? Kamala Harris. She was a candidate in the last election. She has hopefully many, many years to live and make decisions on behalf of the family in her life and everyone else and other children and I can

[Dan Pfeiffer]

pretty much guarantee with all, with every ounce fiber of my body that we would not be at war with Iran if she was President of the United States.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, I, as you know, don't like to scream at people who scream, like, I told you so, at people who voted for Trump. I think it's a shitty way to, like, win people over. And so, you know, welcome Joe Rogan, right, to seeing the light on this one. I just hope that gonna be another presidential election in 2028. And I hope that Joe Rogan and a lot of these other podcasters, you know, just thinks about what lessons can be learned from 2024 and the lies that were told in 2024 and the people who told them. And it wasn't just Donald Trump. It was, you know, his vice president, who is probably gonna be the front runner for the Republican nomination, many of the other people around him in the White House, many of the other Republicans who are running for Congress and running for president. So I do think that all the people who are disappointed in Trump, who supported Trump, think next time around, the next election, that what they're hearing from Republicans, from maga, Republicans like Donald Trump might not be on the level.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And that every Republican has stood by Trump as he's done this. You know, with the exception of Rand Paul and Thomas Massie, every single one of them is totally fine with this war.

[Tommy Vietor]

So our pal Peter Hamby at Puck has a new piece with reactions from young men, including Trump voters, who participated in one of John Della Volpe's focus groups on the war. Talked to John a couple times in the show. Spoiler alert. These young men, not fans, not fans of the war. What'd you make of these groups? And how big of a problem do you think this is for Republicans? As we look ahead to the midterms,

[Dan Pfeiffer]

as we've looked at the polling over the last year, the group that has abandoned Trump the fastest are young men. And I think it's primarily been driven by affordability and the fact that Trump ran on lowering prices and then has just found truly diabolical ways to keep raising them. Like, if you thought the terrorists were bad, wait till you go to the gas pump this week. But I think there is this level of consistency. If you listen to the focus groups in 2024, there was this very real concern. Obviously it was based on bad information, but this very real concern that Kamala Harris would get us into wars and Donald Trump would keep us out of wars. Donald Trump said he was against forever wars all the time. This was People's views on this were complicated by US Support for Ukraine. And I think this fear also unfounded and based on bad information that somehow we were going to get involved in Ukraine because of our support for Ukraine. There was US Support for Israel and what was happening in Gaza. All was pushing to this. And Donald Trump was saying, no forever wars. No forever wars. No forever wars. Now he was also saying he was going to blow the shit out of bad guys all the time. But, and so you're, you know, even, you know, when Peter talks about this piece is that he would, like go to colleges and talk to young men. They would be worried in 2024 about being drafted. Like, I mean, that was the thing that got brought up during the campaign, that Kamala Harris would bring the draft back and draft you. And you're hearing that again, like there is this, like, it is a consistent viewpoint and Donald Trump has broken a core promise. I mean, there are three reasons why people voted for Donald Trump who were like, were actually legitimately on the fence. Prices, immigration. And by immigration, I mean the border and war. And he's raised prices. He has run a immigration strategy that went so far beyond anything he promised and is not what people want. And now he has gone and started multiple wars and now has us embroiled in the greatest conflict we've been in in a decade.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah. And I do think it speaks to the need for, and I know Ben and Tommy talked about this this week on Pod Save the World and have been talking about it for a while, but like the need for Democrats clearly to become an anti war party or at least back to a war as a last resort military force as a last resort party. Because it is clear that the impression that a lot of these young men and other voters had about Kamala Harris and the potential that she might get us into war or start a draft is based on, you know, a lot of lies and misinformation pushed by Trump and his supporters, for sure. It's also true that if you inspected all of Kamala Harris's positions closely, you would probably come to the conclusion that, yeah, she's not gonna start World War Three, nor is she gonna bring back the draft. Right. That's pretty obvious. But in the years that Joe Biden was president and Kamala Harris was vice president, and even in her campaign, did it seem like there was an emphasis on keeping America out of wars or in keeping America out of foreign wars? I would say probably not, particularly with the way that, like you said, Biden behaved in Gaza and also The, I would argue, necessary support for Ukraine against Putin's invasion. But also it was something that was, it wasn't just happening that like, oh well, you know, we're going to help defend Europe and we're going to do this. It was like touted all the time, talked about because it was, you know, we connected this fight against Russia and Ukraine's fight against Russia to sort of like the global fight against authoritarianism. And again, lots of good reasons to make that connection and to offer that support. But I do think as Democrats run again in 2026, especially 2028, you gotta be pretty clear about our stance on war and the use of forces and not do the thing that every fucking Democratic nominee does, particularly Democratic nominees who, who don't have military background, who don't have foreign policy experience and just say a lot of words to show how tough they are. Because we know that strength is important and the only way to. And we somehow equate strength with talking tough about war.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That is the most important point, which is in the post Vietnam era, sort of really exemplified in Carter's presidency around Iran, ironically enough, in the effort and the seizing of the embassy and then the fail held missions to try to rescue the Americans held hostage in the embassy, Democrats became seen as weak. And we have tried to solve that problem by being pro war, by being bellicose. That is how we stumbled into the Iraq war. That's why so many Democrats thought that they should vote for it. The problem was worsened in the 90s when early 90s when a bunch of Democrats voted against the first Gulf War and it ended in 30 days and George H.W. bush went to a 90% approval. And so then we're like, we're not going to make that mistake again when what takes actual strength is to oppose war. That was ultimately why Obama succeeded in 2008, because he was the candidate who was seen as strong enough, who had the courage to stand up against war. And if you think that we are in these messes as a party because we have conflated being tough with being pro war and that is not how the American people see it. They want someone who is strong enough and smart enough to get us out of war to keep us from getting in these sort of fights and the

[Tommy Vietor]

media and punditry contributes to this inevitable. They're so fucking pro war because inevitably every campaign there's like a million stories at some point in the campaign about how this Democratic candidate must pass the Commander in Chief test. And then dutifully the Democratic presidential candidate will say things like, I'm ready to be Commander in Chief on day one, and I will use the most lethal military force and all the fucking shit that the blob who's advising the DC Blob who's advising that candidate tells them to put in their speeches and no more. No more like. And I. I get why some candidates feel the need to do it because they don't have the background, they don't have the experience, they don't have the military experience. A lot of this is gendered as well, which is why Kamala Harris and Hillary Clinton held to deal with it, too. But, like, you just. It is an artificial sort of facade of, like, bellicose militarism that no one's buying, first of all, and only makes you look more hawkish when people don't want that. So that was what the young men thought in that focus group. Marjorie Taylor Greene also tweeted on Thursday, we've been talking about people like Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly who were against this war. Marjorie Taylor Greene, certainly one of these MAGA folks. She tweeted on Thursday that she's been talking to other, quote, america first conservatives. She's not MAGA anymore. She's America First. There's a split.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Tomato.

[Tommy Vietor]

Tomato. Yeah. And they all agree that the party has been hijacked by neocons and boomers and that, quote, an entire generation of elected leaders, their donors and controlling interests on both sides have to be, quote, removed by outside pressure. What's Marge got going on there?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Just as a point of fact, I'm pretty sure Trump's member of the silent generation.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, that's true.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

He's older than our problem. Is that the boomers.

[Tommy Vietor]

Is he not a boomer?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think he and Biden were both silent generation.

[Tommy Vietor]

Wow.

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Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Those are the people really. Like, we don't even think about the silent generation, but they're the ones pulling the strings in Washington these days. On the day that Jim Clyburn announced he's running for reelection at age 86.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, it's just a spring chicken. Spring chicken. It's just as. I can't. I don't even get into that. It's bad. How about that? That was my take. It's bad.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, it's a good take. Here's the thing that I think this war is showing us more. Anything else is that MAGA doesn't really exist, as a lot of people think about it. I think we've talked about how Trump is the symptom of a larger problem in American politics. And that is true. And we've talked about this idea of Trumpism as a sort of a movement or a philosophy that it would extend past Trump. And then all these discussions, Trump's going around and ask people, who do you think is a better leader for maga, JD Vance or Marco Rubio? MAGA is fake. It's a cult of personality. If you look at it in this, there are definitely elite leaders, mostly in the podcast space, who are true believers of some of this shit, like the people Marjorie Taylor Greene's talking about. But in the polling, when they look at MAGA self identified MAGA Republicans and non MAGA Republicans, the ones who are more pro war are the MAGA Republicans. And because they're more pro Trump. And so whatever Trump is for, they're for. So what is going to happen when Trump fades into the background and there is this 2028 Republican nomination is not a battle for who's going to lead Trump's movement. Trump's movement dies with him. It's what the rest of the Republican looks like at party looks like after Trump.

[Tommy Vietor]

Right.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And I'm not saying it's going to look good because of the decade of radicalization of people into this sort of depraved, nihilistic, megalomaniacal politics. But it's not America First. It's not nationalism. It's like race based grievance politics. Then take it where you want from there.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah. I mean, I think you could see an America first movement that is very nationalistic, xenophobic, populist. Again, it doesn't look great, but you could see it stand in contrast with the hawks that are left in the party, the deficit hawks that are left in the party. There's not a lot of them. Right. There's going to be some segments of the party that really are driven by more racial grievance. There's going to be. And immigration. There's going to be others that are maybe driven by, you know, more economic concerns, even though they're not going to end up embracing any decent economic policies. But like, I do think it is a. I think the point is it's going to be a war for the soul of the party.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes. Not, not, not a war for the whole, for the, to lead the Trump movement. Because that's not a real thing.

[Tommy Vietor]

Right. And I don't think it's going to be a battle between like the Never Trumpers and the rest of the party. I think they're, I think that they're out for good. I think it's going to be the different warring factions of MAGA that we're seeing right now.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's just, it doesn't stand for any. Like, if Trump came out tomorrow for Obamacare, they'd all be pro Obamacare. Like, that's the thing that is here. And so it doesn't really mean anything. Like it is just a the voters serve the Republican base, voters serve Trump whatever Trump wants. They don't serve a bunch of ideas that Trump then has come to represent for them. Like, you see this with abortion, right? Like this is was the, you know, obviously Dobbs happened. But Trump, you know, has not said anything about abortion for years now since the election. And no one. And you don't hear anything from the evangelicals about it because that's not what Trump wants. But if Trump were to pick it as his top issue tomorrow, that would be his top issue again. It's just, I just think it's important to understand the difference between an America first movement that Trump's the head of and a movement that is about Donald Trump that is sometimes called America first and may have some America Firsters.

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[Tommy Vietor]

Well, Donald Trump's still here. And Republicans are about to face their last midterm with Donald Trump as president. And they are clearly aware that their prospects aren't looking so hot, which is why this week's House Republican retreat in Florida gave us headlines like this one from Axios. Quote, White House tells House Republicans to stop talking about mass deportations. What? Here's House Speaker Mike Johnson valiantly trying out the new line on Tuesday.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

We got a little hiccup with some of the Hispanic and Latino voters for certain because some of the immigration enforcement was viewed to be overzealous. And you know, everybody can describe it differently. But here's the good news. We're in a course correction mode right now. We're gonna have a new Secretary of Homeland Security. Mark Wayne Mullen is going to be do a great job in that role.

[Tommy Vietor]

I'm sure that he'll just a hiccup, just a flesh wound, you know, and it could be, some people have described it as overzealous and it could be

[Dan Pfeiffer]

described different ways by other, you know, just you, you pick your, you pick your adjective. I'm not, I'm not saying it's overzealous in case Donald Trump is watching this right now. I'm not saying that. Some may have said that also. Just like what an annoying doofus he is. It's just like he just, it's so the way like this, he's describing mass deportation and the massive political problem the Republicans have because of it in this like weird sing songy Ned Flanders voice. Like it's just, it's, it is very Ned Flanders.

[Tommy Vietor]

Just a hiccup, just a hiccup with some Latino voters just over the fact that we have a paramilitary force hunting them down in their neighborhoods regardless of whether they're citizens or not. So James Blair, who is the, this is the White House's top political guy. He's the deputy chief of staff. They always trot him out to try to say what the message should be. And then everyone else in the White House just ignores the advice, says, do Republicans remember he did that around affordability. He's like Donald Trump after, after the off year elections, he's like, Donald Trump's now going to focus on affordability. We know that we get the where it's really important that the next day Donald Trump's like, affordability is a hoax. So he also told House Republicans he was the one who said stop talking about mass deportations. He told them to turn the midterms into a choice election by reminding voters about Democrats Biden era positions on crime, cashless bail and open borders. That was the quote. Would that be your advice too?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I wouldn't give them advice, John, but I would point out that this strategy is doomed to fail for one very, very bitter pill for Donald Trump and James Blair to swallow, which is Joe Biden isn't president. Well, not only is Joe BIDEN not president, 60% of voters in a recent NPR Marist poll believe that things were better when Joe Biden was president. That includes 68% of independents. And so your message cannot be watch out for Biden's old policies when they, even if they didn't like Biden's old policies, they think your policies suck. More majorities think that their life is worse off because of Donald Trump's policies. And so in at a time of war with hundred dollar a barrel oil, do you think cashless bail is going to tip the elections for you? Like, truly, these guys are so far up their own asses that it's like hard to see straight

[Jon Favreau]

there.

[Tommy Vietor]

Someone from Fox called up the White House after that Axios story and asked about the mass deportations policy. And the White House said there's no change whatsoever in the White House's deportation or immigration policies. So they're still pursuing mass deportation, but they just can't talk about it. Can't talk about mass deportation. The war that you're seeing is actually over. It's going great. It's going great. The tariffs you're paying that the Supreme Court said are illegal. You're not getting a refund. The extra gas, the higher gas prices you're paying are actually great because, you know, we're all making money, oil companies are making money, and everything's great. And I don't know what else is there. That's basically everything's wonderful. Everything's wonderful. Check out this ballroom. Look at that. It's great.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes. And don't worry, the President is spending at least three to four times as much time as he is on the war and the economy on decorating the ballroom he's building because his true passion is interior design.

[Tommy Vietor]

I don't know what I would tell them. The messages, I mean, I guess. And then the other thing, they're like, oh, you got to talk about the prescription drug thing, which he didn't do anything on prescription drugs. That's like anything of significance at all. But he did some fake website and a couple things here and there that might help some people who don't have insurance if they go on the website and get some discounts on prescription drugs. It's very. I looked into it. It's very, very little. But this is their big thing. They think, oh, if the Republicans are out there and they've done the polling on this and they telling all the candidates, go out there and talk about what Trump has done on prescription drugs, like, that is the key.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Okay, no, you know who that's almost exactly like. It is eerie how similar it is to some of the things we read about Biden's plans. And honestly, I don't know what I would tell them either, other than to go fuck themselves. But the. That'd be my advice. James Blair. But if they were gonna do anything to be helpful, is they would kind of do what Biden actually did, which was just be quiet for the last six months. Like, Biden wasn't out there campaigning for anyone. He wasn't trying to make the election about him. Up until he gave that democracy speech at the very end, he just kind

[Tommy Vietor]

of let it run. He showed a lot of discipline, even though he was unhappy.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, I don't think Trump will be showing that discipline.

[Tommy Vietor]

That's what I was saying. I also think if you told Mike Johnson to go fuck himself, it would fly in the face of his Covenant Eyes app that he shares with his son. So I think that's going to be somewhere.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

His son is just getting an alert on his phone.

[Tommy Vietor]

Something I thought about, that message wouldn't be received as well. So basically, the President basically had one piece of advice. For Republicans in Congress, it's become more of an all consuming demand, which is to pass the Save America Act, a bill that would require, as we've talked about, every American to present their passport or birth certificate in person at a local elections office in order to register to vote. Trump is also demanding that the bill include a nationwide ban on most mail in voting and a ban on trans participation in sports and gender affirming care for minors, because why not? He said that he won't sign any legislation until the bill is passed. And yet the votes still aren't there in the Senate without nuking the filibuster, which Republicans also don't have the votes for. As John Thune continues telling everyone who will listen, they did just get one convert. However, Texas's John Cornyn, who's locked in a primary runoff with Ken Paxton, who said he'd only consider dropping out of the race if the SAVE act passes. So because of that, Cornyn wrote an op ed in the New York Post this week explaining that he now does support ending the filibuster race to pass the Save America Act. Again, they still don't have the votes, but Cornyn is having a hard time answering questions about his change of heart after many, many years in politics. Defending the filibuster. Let's take a listen. Previously said that nuking the filibuster would be taking a wrecking ball to Senate rules.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Is that no longer true? I said I'd be open to reforms.

[Tommy Vietor]

What would you say to those who say you just changed your mind to win the President's endorsement?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'd say that's not true.

[Tommy Vietor]

You also said that if I think

[Dan Pfeiffer]

we're through, go away.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, think we're. Think we're through. Still seems like there's absolutely no way this thing is getting passed. But am I missing something? There's some secret trick they got up their sleeve.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I don't. You're not missing anything. You should be clear. Trump's made this so much harder, it was almost impossible anyway, if they could just pass the House's passed version of the original SAVE Act. Instead, Trump has decided to add all these provisions, including, as you said, like these completely extraneous things around transports, participation and gender affirming care, but also mail balloting. Like Susan Collins, who insanely supports the SAVE act, has said that she is very concerned about a bill telling states how to handle their absentee ballot programs. Which, I mean, the Constitution may also have a thing or two to say about that, but.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yep.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

So it seems hard for them to pass the old version. The new version seems like an impossibility. I've been trying to think just to take a dive on the dark side. How could they actually do it? Because they can lose three Republicans. So you assume even if she supports the bill, is Susan Collins really going to nuke the filibuster to pass the SAVE Act?

[Tommy Vietor]

No.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Lisa Murkowski? No. Mitch McConnell's still kicking around. That's three right there.

[Tommy Vietor]

Antilles has said he's not gonna do it untillis.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

So it seems. That seems. And then you also, Kennedy has said that. So it seems hard.

[Tommy Vietor]

They just don't have the votes.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. It doesn't seem like it is possible for them to do it. Even if Trump has pulled off with at least House Republicans in the past, like what seemed to be impossible votes. But usually that's getting conservatives to vote for something more moderate and more moderate, I'm saying, with all kinds of air quotes, because not particularly moderate, but it's getting. There are no moderates here. But getting the less Trumpy Republicans to come over the Trumpy side is something he's had less success with. It seems very, very hard as we sit here today. So I'd say that it seems like

[Tommy Vietor]

where this is headed is it fails. They have the vote, they speak and yell and scream and all the right wing influencers freak out and all that shit. It doesn't go anywhere. Dies. And then Trump announces he's doing an executive order that is the Save America act and he's just going to, you know, claim by fiat that it has passed or just, you know, eo the provisions into being and then into law and then it'll be challenged in court and thrown out and that'll be that.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, that seems.

[Tommy Vietor]

And then maybe, and maybe it'll be a pretext for when they lose the midterms for them to all scream about how Democrats cheated. And if we had passed the Save America act and if the courts hadn't, you know, the Supreme Court hadn't betrayed Donald Trump, then Republicans would have won the midterms. And so now we're going to see some voting machines. I don't know. But like, you can, you can see where this is headed.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, that's fair. I think that's a good, that, that's a good articulation of what's likely to happen.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, it'll be a real fucking shit show. One other story to file under Republicans acting fucking nuts. On Monday, Tennessee Congressman Andy Ogles tweeted, quote, muslims don't belong in American society. Pluralism is a lie. This came after Florida Congressman Randy Fine tweeted in February, if they force us to choose, the choice between dogs and Muslims is not a difficult one. Then just on Thursday, after a popular right wing troll account posted a tweet juxtaposing a picture of the Twin Towers exploding with Zoran Mamdani hosting an IFTAR celebration, Alabama Senator Tommy Tuberville retweeted it with the comment, quote, the enemy is inside the gates, referring to Mamdani. Maybe even more disturbing than those three. When reporters asked a bunch of Republicans in Congress this week for their reaction to Ogle's tweet about how Muslims don't belong in American society, a lot of them just refused to condemn it. The number three ranked Republican in the House, Tom Emmer, was asked six times by a reporter whether he thinks Muslims belong in American society. Six times in a row. Each time he refused to say yes. Just would not say yes. I don't know, I'm like, I'm at a complete loss for this one. Like, it's disgusting. It is. If anyone said that about any other religion, Judaism, Christianity, it would be a fucking national uproar. This has nothing to do with, you know, sort of Islamic inspired terrorists or any kind of extreme. It's nothing to do with any of that. Even though some of them in their backtracking try to make it. It's just people who are Muslim in this country, they do not want here. And you have elected Republicans saying they do not want Muslims in this society. You have elected Republicans saying that Zoran Mamdani, the mayor of New York City should be denaturalized and deported. You have other ones just calling for just people who practice Islam in this country to be deported. It's fucking, it's disgusting. And I don't even know what, like, what should Democrats say about it? I feel like I've seen a lot of tweets from a lot of Democrats saying that it's disgusting. I really don't know what else there is to do, but it's something people should realize is happening out there.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, I mean, I had the exact same reaction, which is. It's so horrifying. It is an effort to make anti Muslim bigotry socially acceptable. Certainly within the Republican Party, if not in America, as you said, if you were to substitute any other religion there, there would be a fierce uproar. And I think Democrats who have called it out are good to do it. I always wrestle with this, which is these people are disgusting trolls and they want our outrage. And are we giving them what they want by addressing it? I just like, I really like it should be called out. It absolutely should be called out. And no one should be afraid to call it out. This is not a situation where like, oh, this might be politically precarious. No, you should call. I think this is terrible. It's not just disgusting morally, I think it's also terrible politics. I think people look at that and think that most Americans think that's disgusting. Like, why would you even say that? Why would you be so divisive? Why would you be so hateful? I don't think it's good politics. That's why I think it's the right thing to call it out. I think what to do here is you're never gonna get Andy Ogle's Tommy Tuberville, Randy Fine to be less horrible. They're not gonna have an epiphany one day and not be these disgusting people they show themselves to be. The thing to do is to deliver fierce, powerful political punishment on the people who are enabling this in the Republican Party. Tom Emmer, the number three Republican. I mean, Mike Johnson lets us go every single day.

[Jon Favreau]

Right.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

They could call this out. They could speak up for their constituents. There are Muslims who live in every district, almost every district and certainly every state in this country. None of them call out. Is the way to do is to make them pay a huge price, political price for this. To channel our anger and our outrage certainly into protecting and thinking about and caring for the Muslims who are being targeted here, but into efforts to just beat the living shit out of these Republicans in the election.

[Tommy Vietor]

I think Mamdani had maybe the best response. He, quote, tweeted tuberville and said, let there be as much outrage from politicians in Washington when kids go hungry as there is when I break bread with the New Yorkers.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

Which is just bringing the whole thing back onto. Onto his terms. Right. And not having to deal with that. But it is. It's Man.

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[Host of Runaway Country (possibly a guest or correspondent)]

The country feels like it's falling apart right before our eyes and the people inside it are being silenced. So we're going to East 26th street and Nicollet Avenue, which is where Alex Preddy was executed by ICE and Border Patrol. That is not a headline. That is a human life and it is all happening right now. Do you worry about your own safety being involved in all this?

[Jon Favreau]

Yes.

[Tommy Vietor]

But it doesn't really feel like there's another option, you know.

[Ben Rhodes]

And of course they use a 5 year old child as bait. And of course they're doing all these horrible bad things because they don't know what they're doing. They've been told that they're going to get rid of the worst of the worst. Then they have absolute immunity. And they've been told that nothing they do will they ever be held accountable for.

[Host of Runaway Country (possibly a guest or correspondent)]

On my show, Runaway country, we go where the headlines hit home. From communities under threat to the people fighting to be heard. New episodes of Runaway country drop every Thursday. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.

[Tommy Vietor]

All right, couple things before we go. Elon Musk's doge is back in the Headlines the thanks to a lawsuit filed last year to reverse cuts to the National Endowment for the Humanities. Apparently, Elon's Doge Bros fed every NEH grant into ChatGPT and asked it does the following relate at all to DEI? Respond factually in less than 120 characters. Begin with yes or no. That was the prompt. The result was the cancellation of $100 million in already appropriated funding. Congress already appropriated it. And the firing of 65% of the staff at the National Endowment for the Humanities, which some of the Doge Bros are having to answer for under oath as part of the lawsuit. Here's part of a video that 404 Media put together with some of the highlights from former Doge staffer Justin Fox.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

How do you interpret dei? There was the EO explicitly laid out the details. I don't remember it off the top of my head. It's okay. I'm asking for your understanding of it. Yeah, my understanding was exactly what was written in the eo. Okay, so can you. I don't remember what was in the. So right now do you have an understanding of what D.E.I. is?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Okay, so what's your understanding as you sit here today in this deposition? Well, it was exactly what was written in the eo. Why is a documentary about Holocaust survivors?

[Tommy Vietor]

Dei?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Objection. It's the gender based story that's inherently discriminatory to focus on this specific group. It's inherently discriminatory to focus on what specific group? The gender based. So females during the Holocaust. And you believe that's inherently discriminatory? I'm just saying that's what it's focused on. Sure, but this is related to dei.

[Tommy Vietor]

Oh my God. I hadn't seen that clip.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

No, this. First time. First time what?

[Tommy Vietor]

The Holocaust is a. These people are fucking stupid. Elon Musk is fucking stupid. The fucking people he hired are stupid. And everyone during the whole DOGE thing that was like, these kids are brilliant and they blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and just give them a chance. No, they're all fucking stupid. They should have been anywhere near the government and fuck them.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Just some of the worst, dumbest people were given the most important jobs and with incredible consequences.

[Tommy Vietor]

Oh, because you can code. Oh, good for fucking you.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You can.

[Tommy Vietor]

Like, that's.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Where's that code getting you now?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, replace you with fucking Claude.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. ChatGPT my ass right there. It's just like in there, like we are laughing this. And we should. Because we. These clowns should be ridiculed out of polite society. But USAID programs gutted children died, people got sick, people lost their jobs.

[Tommy Vietor]

I know.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Because of a bunch of fucking goobers who had no idea what they're doing, who worked for the world's biggest goober who had no idea what he was doing. Got in there.

[Jon Favreau]

Back.

[Tommy Vietor]

Back to the. Back to the groiper. Incels.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes, exactly. Put in a bunch of poorly worded prompts into a old version of ChatGPT and fired a bunch of people and cut off a bunch of programs.

[Tommy Vietor]

I just fucking. You cannot run against Silicon Valley hard enough in the next race.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. There's a story today about a bunch of tech venture capitalists who want to raise a half a billion dollars to shape California politics.

[Tommy Vietor]

Saw that. Saw that. Yeah. I was just arguing with Chamath on Twitter, although I will say I didn't. Here's the thing, Dan, he tweeted about the Washington, the new Washington state, millionaires tax, income tax. They're all been bitching about the wealth tax. This is just an income tax that hits millionaires. That's it. And I just quote, tweeted it and said this billionaire, you know, this billionaire has a problem with, with millionaires paying a little bit more. It's something very anodyne. And he just responded with this long fucking thing and was just a complete asshole. And you know what I did? I didn't respond.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You know what, John? I feel like it was two weeks ago. We had what some of our listeners thought was a mild intervention on my part. I think it was more of an inquisition about your mental health. But you've grown in those two weeks.

[Tommy Vietor]

If it's not a senior administration official, I'm gonna let it go, which is I did.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Does he not have followers for you to get your jollies out of it to their level? Which is no longer thrilling.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, like, who cares what Chamath does? But anyway, I do think that, like, people like him and the David Sachs and all the AI fucking, you know, overlords now, like, this is the politics there are so bad for them. And I do think that, like, people in this country are so angry and have fucking had it with like Elon Musk and the Tech Bros and all these fucking assholes that, like, you know, I, like I said, I do not think you can run hard enough against that whole crew if you're a Democrat or a Republican for that matter, running in 2028.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And you're going to get a chance to, because between the crypto industry and the AI industry, there's going to be hundreds of millions of dollars spent in super PAC funding. And even in Democratic primaries, we're seeing the crypto PACs have come in against Juliana Stratton, who's lieutenant governor running in Illinois. As soon as she got near the top of the polls, they dropped, I think, $5 million in ads on her. So there's a real. Like, this is the real thing. And also, this is a different topic, but these people are also so fucking bad at politics because, like, all these AI people who are in there being, like, arrogant assholes who are inserting themselves in politics, they do not seem to recognize because even though they're making a ton of money, you know, it's like Sam Altman sweeping in with the ChatGPT contract with the Pentagon is that they have to get their data centers built in local communities. And if your brand is in the shit because you're being run by an arrogant asshole who is keeping up to the least popular president in recent memory, then it's going to be really hard to get local communities to approve your data centers. It's like, these people are really. They're bad at politics. They're being advised by greedy people who are bad at politics. Like, it's just. They're all fucking clowns.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah, Agree. That's not the only Doge story we have. The Washington Post also just reported that a whistleblower has come forward, alleging that a different Doge staffer at the Social Security Administration copied two highly sensitive databases so he could use them at his new job with a private employer. The guy in question apparently asked the whistleblower for help in transferring one of the databases off of a thumb drive to his personal computer so that he could, quote, sanitize the data, and said that he expected to receive a presidential pardon, of course, if his work was found to be illegal. One of the databases was called the Master Death File. Included records for more than 500 million living and dead Americans, including Social Security. Numbers, places and dates of birth, citizenship, race and ethnicity, and parents, names. Doesn't that give you a warm and fuzzy feeling inside?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Should be one of the biggest stories in America because it would be one of the biggest data breaches in the history of the federal government.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah. And no one, at the end of the story, they're like, and no one knows. Was there one copy made of it? No copies. A dozen copies. A hundred copies. No one can say. I'm sure DOJ's looking into it. Right? I guess right now there's an inspector general internal investigation at the Social Security Administration. That's how we found out about this story in the Washington Post because they had to notify Congress that they were doing this inspector general investigation. But, like, I don't know, seems a little crimey to me. Seems like there could be some crimes here.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

When you bring up a prospective presidential pardon in the discussion involving how to get something onto a jump drive, you're probably.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah. And when with the stuff on the jump drive is the private. The most private information for every American.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I can't wait to see what dipshit startup this guy went to go work for.

[Tommy Vietor]

It's like, probably OpenAI.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You could think it could be something like that, but it's probably something just so ridiculous, like, I don't know, like Uber for bowling lanes or something.

[Tommy Vietor]

Fuck. Finally, finally, this is a light one. A story about how our wartime president has been extremely focused on footwear, and not just his either. Earlier this week, the Wall Street Journal reported that Trump has, quote, fallen in love with shoes from a company called Florsheim, which he keeps gifting to, quote, agency heads, lawmakers, White house advisors, and VIPs. So Trump has apparently been checking out people's shoes during cabinet meetings and then guessing their shoe size in front of everyone, which hilariously led to Marco Rubio saying he's an eleven and a half, which he's not because shortly after the article was released, various photos of Rubio and a pair of obviously oversized dress shoes went viral. So. And J.D. vance has told the story as well, that, like Trump said to Marco and JD in some meeting, like, hey, you both have shitty shoes. I got these new shoes that I love. What are your shoe sizes? And so they give him the shoe sizes and J.D. vance says he's a 13. It's like, fuck fucking Bigfoot over there. And then, and then Marco says 11 and a half after J.D. vance, 13. And Donald Trump says, you know, you can tell a lot about a man from his shoe size.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

So.

[Tommy Vietor]

So Rubio inflates his shoe size. Trump gives these shoes to everyone as a gift, and then they're all stuck wearing their shoes around, in Marco's case, that don't fit him.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's so funny. I mean, just such small dick energy for Marco Rubio.

[Tommy Vietor]

He's like little Marco. Trump. Nailed that nickname.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes.

[Tommy Vietor]

Nailed it.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Marco Rubio measures his shoe size from the base. So it's like. But could you just imagine, like, he wore them to Davos. Like, the man is on his feet, like, 18 hours a day wearing shoes that do not because he's afraid to admit to the President United States that his Shoe size is smaller than he thinks he did want to be more than a size and a half smaller than J.D.

[Tommy Vietor]

vance, who was also probably lying about his feet as well.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

How many pairs of socks do you think he's trying to put on to try.

[Tommy Vietor]

I was just going to say that. Well, also, the Internet sort of did its thing and sort of they did like a Zapruder like, collection of, like, various Marco Rubio pictures. Photos. So there's one where he clearly looks ridiculous. There's some others where you can still see a little space in the shoes. And then they have pictures from before he got the shoes when he was wearing other shoes which clearly fit him quite well. So you can just see the evolution. And suddenly Rubio is just walking around tripping over his feet. Big dumb shoes that Donald Trump gave him. Oh, also, by the way, Business Insider helpfully pointed this out that Florsheim's parent company has sued for a refund on Trump's tariffs.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Fucking perfect. Perfect.

[Tommy Vietor]

Well, enjoy your shoes, everyone. Why is Trump really does speak to something that's going on with Trump in these it's very like, aging dictator, declining empire vibes where he's just like, it's very in line with the caring about the ballroom and the decorations and the Kennedy center and the armrests. And it's like, you know, he's just sitting around these meetings, probably like they're talking to him about fucking missile launches

[Dan Pfeiffer]

or about the street of Hormuz. Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

Oil prices or, you know, any number of other important things. And he's sitting there looking under the table and he's like, what shoe size are you? I don't like those shoes. I gotta send you some florsheim shoes for 145 bucks a pair. And will it be your size? Who knows? Who knows? You better tell me a big size. You better tell me a big size or I'm gonna think you have a small dick.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Do you think we would not be in war with the Ram right now if Marco Rubio had shoes that fit?

[Tommy Vietor]

Unclear. Unclear. Oh, boy. Well, that's our show for today, Dan. We're going to end on that note.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's a good note to Dan.

[Tommy Vietor]

Hope everyone's wearing the shoes that fit them. Love it. Will be back in the feed on Sunday with a conversation with Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro. Maybe he'll find out how big his shoes shoes are, huh?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Bye, everyone.

[Tommy Vietor]

Bye. If you want to listen to Pod Save America ad free and get access to exclusive podcasts, go to cricket.com friends to subscribe on Supercast Substack, YouTube or Apple Podcasts. Also, please consider leaving us a review that helps boost this episode and everything we do here at Crooked Pod Save America is a crooked media production. Our producer is Sold Rubin. Our associate producer is Farah Safari. Austin Fisher is our senior producer. Reed Churlin is our executive editor. Adrian Hill is our head of news and politics. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Jordan Kanter is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Matt de Groat is our head of production. Naomi Sengel is our executive assistant. Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Hayley Jones, Ben Hefcote, Mia Kellman, Carol Pelavie, David David Toles and Ryan Young, our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America east.

[Host of Runaway Country (possibly a guest or correspondent)]

The country feels like it's falling apart right before our eyes and the people inside it are being silenced. So we're going to East 26th street and Nicollet Avenue, which is where Alex Preddy was executed by ICE and Border Patrol. That is not a headline. That is a human life and it is all happening right now. Do you worry about your own safety being involved in all this?

[Jon Favreau]

Yes, but it doesn't really feel like there's another option, you know?

[Ben Rhodes]

And of course they use a 5 year old child as bait. And of course they're doing all these horrible bad things because they don't know what they're doing. They've been told that they're going to get rid of the worst of the worst, then they have absolute immunity. And they've been told that nothing they do will they ever be held accountable for.

[Host of Runaway Country (possibly a guest or correspondent)]

On my show, Runaway country, we go where the headlines hit home from communities under threat to the people fighting to be heard. New episodes of Runaway country drop every Thursday. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube.