Trump Sabotages Trump Agenda

Summary

Pod Save America – "Trump Sabotages Trump Agenda"

Episode Date: June 26, 2026
Hosts: Jon Favreau, Dan Pfeiffer, Tommy Vietor
Notable Guests: Gina Hinojosa, Jonathan Swan, James Carville, Zoran Mamdani

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Episode Overview

This episode centers on Donald Trump’s self-sabotaging political moves—including tanking a major bipartisan housing bill at the last minute to demand a controversial voting restriction, chaotic Republican infighting, and the inability of GOP leadership to control the legislative agenda. The hosts also break down Democratic primary upsets in New York, analyze the energy and future of the party’s progressive wing, and close with an in-depth interview with Texas Democratic gubernatorial candidate Gina Hinojosa.

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Main Segments & Key Discussion Points

1. Trump Tanks the Housing Bill to Push Voter Restrictions

(Start – 22:15)

Trump’s Surprise Move

• Trump abruptly canceled a landmark, bipartisan housing affordability bill signing, instead demanding Congress pass his “SAVE Act”—which would require showing a passport or birth certificate to register to vote and ban mail-in voting.
• The move stunned Republicans who expected to celebrate a rare legislative win and frustrated Democrats.
• Quote [05:25], Trump (impersonated):
  "Housing bill is housing. I made billions of dollars with housing. ... I know housing better than anybody, maybe anywhere. It’s all about the interest rate. Lower the interest rates, you have all the housing you want."
• Trump’s obsession with the SAVE Act, which would make registration harder for many—including his own base—baffled even his supporters.

Panel Analysis

• Trump is undermining both parties’ messages: “This is just crazy.” – Dan Pfeiffer [06:41]
• The SAVE Act is unlikely to pass and likely to hurt GOP turnout. Most Americans lack passports or birth certificates at hand—especially working-class Trump voters.
• Quote [09:08], Dan Pfeiffer:
  "A majority of Americans do not have passports. The ones who don’t are just unfortunately working class and didn’t go to college, which has been the core of the Trump base."
• No Republican is willing to confront Trump about the unworkability or political danger of his demands [14:18].

Political Fallout

• Key house Republicans—like Anna Paulina Luna—are blocking all floor action until the Senate passes the SAVE Act, which is essentially impossible.
• Instead, the House is paralyzed. “They can’t do anything.” – Jonathan Swan [15:01]
• Jon Favreau: “Trump seems intent on sabotaging any chance of anything passing before Election Day.” [17:01]

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2. GOP Dysfunction: Infighting and Messaging Chaos

(11:13 – 22:16)

• Trump’s lunch with Senate GOP dissolves into personal berating, with Senator Kennedy describing Trump as “mad as a murder hornet” [12:58].
• Trump rails about impeachment votes, further intimidating moderates.
• On war funding, Congress faces a toxic vote: $88 billion for military “backfilling” during a time when war is unpopular and gas prices are high.
• Notable Moment: John Kennedy says the lunch was a success "because, quote, no one got stabbed, which is an excellent bar to set." [12:58]

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3. Democratic Primary Earthquakes in New York

(25:00 – 45:27)

The Results

• Three DSA/progressive candidates notch upsets, including Claire Valdez, Brad Lander, and Darieliza Avila Chevalier.
• The Chevalier win is the biggest shock—she’s a Democratic socialist who supports abolishing police/prisons and open borders, with little apology for extreme past statements.

Progressive Energy vs. Establishment Panic

• “No one should dismiss this. Two incumbents losing election in one night is a big deal since 1946. ... It is very rare for members of Congress to lose their primaries." – Jonathan Swan [28:14]
• Democratic leadership (Carville, Hakeem Jeffries) voices deep anxiety.
• Dan Pfeiffer: “There is more energy on the left and there is sort of greater tactical, strategic, and organizational energy and success among the groups on the left.” [29:44]

How to Respond to Extremism

• Favreau urges clear distancing from radical views like abolishing prisons and police:
  "She currently holds a range of views that go from moronic to abhorrent." [34:36]
• Panel agrees: call out extremism while not painting all progressives with the same brush.
• Republicans may try to make Chevalier the face of the Democratic Party; hosts argue it won’t stick, but candidates should be prepared to respond forcefully.

Broader Questions

• Is the party "moving dramatically to the left"?
  • The party is more liberal than a decade ago, but “the core of the coalition is still Black voters, who remain more moderate than the party.” – Dan Pfeiffer [41:09]
• Polls: Support for “socialism” is high, but it’s more a reaction against capitalism than coherent support for abolitionist ideas. [43:18]
• Advice for Democrats: Embrace authenticity, address economic pain, but don’t run from the voter anger toward party leadership and perceived failures on Trump and Gaza. [44:27, 47:00]

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4. Progressive Candidates Beyond New York

(50:56 – 57:27)

• Wisconsin and Michigan gubernatorial/Senate races feature high-stakes DSA/progressive campaigns.
• Discussion: Left candidates are not automatically unelectable but must understand state context and moderate on issues where needed (e.g., not embracing “defund the police” in purple states).
• Strategic comparison to GOP's Tea Party era: Nominate passionate but politically viable candidates.

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5. JD Vance and the GOP's Culture & Charisma Problem

(57:28 – 67:20)

• JD Vance, now VP, faces condescension from GOP elites:
  • "I think J.D. has the potential to be great." – Rupert Murdoch [57:49]
• Vance tries to paper over Trump’s meanness as “working class communication,” which Favreau and co. ridicule:
  • "I'm not sure how the Manhattan billionaire president calling Americans he doesn't like human scum is a working class way of communication.” – Jon Favreau [59:08]
• Theme: Elites rebrand Trumpism’s cruelty as populism, but disconnect remains.
• The panel laughs about the awkward “husband-wife” chemistry between Vance and his spouse on a YouTube kids reading segment.
  • “He reaches awkwardly across and gives her two fatherly pats on the knee... and then they just sit and stare at each other.” – Jon Favreau [65:14]

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6. Interview: Gina Hinojosa, Democratic Candidate for Texas Governor

(70:30 – 96:49)

Background & Motivation

• Hinojosa grew up on the Texas/Mexico border, internalizing the contrast between America’s middle class and Mexico’s stark inequality.
• Got into politics by accident—first ran for school board to save her son’s school, then to Texas House.
  • “We are paying into a system that is working against us. ... I refer to it as the Greg Abbott corruption tax. We pay more, we get less.” [70:56]

The Abbott Record & Democratic Opportunity

• Cites over 100 public schools closing, districts going to four-day weeks, massive uninsured population, rising property taxes—all under Abbott, who is “the most corrupt governor in Texas history.” [78:16]
• Dems over-performed in 2026 primaries; anti-incumbency energy high.
• Detailed case for why national Democrats should care: Texas is poised to gain up to 10 House seats for GOP after redistricting if Dems don’t win the governorship.
  • “The governor of Texas controls 10% of Congress.” [94:57]

Education as the Core Issue

• Frames public schools as “the gateway for the American Dream,” advocating a “back to basics” approach: “Pay teachers their worth” instead of privatization schemes. [83:44]
• Abbott’s education policy (vouchers, vendor contracts) “vendor contract after vendor contract to someone connected to Greg Abbott.” [81:45]

Latinos & the Path to Victory

• Hinojosa focuses on economic issues, not culture wars, as critical for Latino turnout: “When we’re fighting about those things, we are not talking about the thing that impacts all of us.” [87:03]
• Believes Latino turnout—targeting 64%+ share—can flip Texas.

On Immigration – A “Positive Vision”

• Recognizes the need for border security and reforming asylum laws, while being realistic about Americans’ anxieties.
  • “It is hard to be generous with the American dream when people feel like it’s out of reach for themselves.” [89:52]
• Urges practical, humane solutions and criticizes Abbott’s lack of action on federal missteps (e.g., the return of the screwworm livestock parasite).

Why Her Race Matters Nationally

• Argues Texas will determine the House and the Electoral College for decades. Dems need a governor to stop GOP gerrymanders. [94:57]

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Notable Quotes

• Dan Pfeiffer on Trump: “This is just crazy.” [06:41]
• Jon Favreau: “He currently holds a range of views that go from moronic to abhorrent.” [34:36] (re: Chevalier)
• Jonathan Swan: “Two incumbents losing election on one night is a big deal since 1946.” [28:14]
• Gina Hinojosa: “We pay more, we get less because we are all paying the Greg Abbott corruption tax.” [70:56]
• Jon Favreau: “I'm not sure how the Manhattan billionaire president calling Americans he doesn't like human scum is a working-class way of communication.” [59:08]

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Key Timestamps

• 03:00 – Show overview and Trump’s latest obstruction with housing/voting bills
• 05:25 – Trump’s public rationale for blocking housing bill
• 12:58 – Trump’s combative lunch with GOP senators
• 25:00 – Democratic primary upsets and party infighting in New York
• 34:36 – Democratic response strategy to radical candidates
• 50:56 – Upcoming high-stakes progressive primary races
• 57:28 – JD Vance, Murdoch’s remarks, and Republican “tone” problems
• 70:30 – Gina Hinojosa interview: Texas politics, public schools, Latino voters, and 2026 implications

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Tone & Style

As always, the hosts blend sharp analysis with humor and exasperation, balancing inside-baseball political strategy with relatable big-picture stakes. They encourage moral clarity—particularly when it comes to distinguishing mainstream progressivism from fringe positions.

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For Listeners: What Matters and What’s Next

• Trump continues to undermine his own party’s agenda, risking GOP prospects down-ballot.
• Progressive victories signal energy but also present messaging and strategic challenges for Democrats.
• Gina Hinojosa makes the case that Texas is the single most consequential battleground for the next decade’s national politics.
• Both parties face existential questions about who they are and what voters want—in policy and in leadership.

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This summary omits ad reads, promotional messages, and non-news segments. For full transcript or bonus content, visit crooked.com/friends.

Transcript

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[Jon Favreau]

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

[Jon Favreau]

On today's show, Donald Trump touts a major accomplishment on affordability as only he knows how. By canceling it, we'll talk about why and why the president is fighting again with Republicans in Congress. We'll also Talk about Zoran Mamdani's House candidates going 3 for 3 in New York's primaries on Tuesday and why that's causing some Democrats to panic and Republicans to smile. We'll do a quick check in on J.D. vance's charm offensive and whether it's winning over his wife. And then Gina Hinojosa, the Democrat running to be governor of Texas, stops by to talk about her race against Greg Abbott and why she might become Texas's first Democratic governor in nearly 40 years. Before we start, please consider subscribing to Friends of the pod if you haven't already. You get ad free episodes of this pod and all your favorite crooked pods.

[Tommy Vietor]

Plus, you get subscriber only shows like

[Jon Favreau]

Polar Coaster with the one and only Dan Pfeiffer. And I hear you guys are back at it.

[Tommy Vietor]

You did another Polar Coaster this week, right?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

We did. It came out this week. We talked a little bit about the New York racist that you and I are also gonna talk about. We also talked about the politics of abortion four years after Dobbs.

[Tommy Vietor]

Excellent.

[Jon Favreau]

Everyone check that out. You can get it if you subscribe. You also get our extra episode of Pod Save America called Pod Save America Only Friends. You get lots of excellent substack newsletters and you get to be feeling good

[Tommy Vietor]

about supporting a proudly independent, pro democracy media company. So check it out, crooked.com friends.

[Jon Favreau]

All right, let's get to the news. Donald Trump made some real progress this week trying to sabotage his Republican majority in Congress. Minutes before he was scheduled to appear at a signing ceremony for a landmark housing affordable bill that passed with huge bipartisan majorities, the president announced that it was canceled and that he won't be signing the housing legislation until Congress passes the SAVE act, which is the bill that would require all Americans to show passports or birth certificates in order to register to vote and has failed to pass in the Senate five times.

[Tommy Vietor]

Now.

[Jon Favreau]

The housing bill would reduce barriers to building new homes and limit the ability of big investors to buy up single family homes, ideally lowering the price of housing down the road. But alas, Trump doesn't want to give anyone the impression that he and his party are focused for even a second on affordability. So no housing bill this week. Trump elaborated on his thinking in an Oval Office appearance a little later in the day. Let's listen.

[James Carville]

Basically, it's the Save America Act. Everybody wants it. Everybody is, including Democrats. I said, I'm not signing the housing bill. I want to see what happens with Sam. Look, the housing bill is housing. I made billions of dollars worth housing. I know housing better than anybody, maybe anywhere. It's all about the interest rate. Lower the interest rates. You can have all the housing you want. But you have to understand, I don't want to, I don't want to hurt people that own houses, too. Affordability. We're doing great. The Democrats gave us a tremendous affordability problem, and we're reducing prices a lot.

[Jon Favreau]

I'm a billionaire. I made a fortune on housing. And we got to keep, we got to help other people who already own homes.

[Jonathan Swan]

Take it from me, successful slum lord on how to deal with housing prices.

[Jon Favreau]

So considering that the housing bill will become law in 10 days even without Trump's signature, and that if he does decide to veto it, Congress has the numbers to override a veto, what was Trump thinking when he decided to do this?

[Tommy Vietor]

What's going on here, Dan?

[Jonathan Swan]

You know, there's been this debate over

[Dan Pfeiffer]

the years whether Trump is crazy or

[Jonathan Swan]

crazy like a fox.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

This is just crazy.

[Jonathan Swan]

Like, just put yourself in the position of Republicans, right? You're a vulnerable Republican. You're like a Susan Collins or a

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Dan Sullivan or you're one of these Republicans like Mike Lawler in a purple district.

[Jonathan Swan]

You wake up on Wednesday morning, here's what your day looks like. Democrats are in the middle of a giant fight because we've elected some socialists. In New York City, you're about to have a signing ceremony for a massive bipartisan bill that would be signed by Donald Trump, but written in part by Elizabeth Warren that will address housing prices. It'd be a real, actual, tangible accomplishment. You could take the voters to say, like, I'm trying to do something to

[Dan Pfeiffer]

deal with your cost of living crisis.

[Jonathan Swan]

And instead of that, Donald Trump just minutes beforehand sends out an insane truth demand, canceling the signing ceremony, stomping on both the Democrats, bad message, the Republicans good message, because he has a near fatal attraction to a bill that no one likes and if it were to pass, would make it harder for Republicans to win elections.

[Tommy Vietor]

It is, it is wild.

[Jon Favreau]

And that he just keeps. First of all, let's just talk about this.

[Tommy Vietor]

The Save America act, which he has called it.

[Jon Favreau]

It was the Save act, then he

[Tommy Vietor]

changed it to the Save America Act.

[Jon Favreau]

It's also supposed to ban mail in voting nationwide.

[Tommy Vietor]

I think that's part of it too,

[Jon Favreau]

or that's one of the add ons that he included himself. So I don't know why he's so. I mean, I know why.

[Tommy Vietor]

Cause he thinks that it's going to help them rig the elections and win.

[Jon Favreau]

But it is wild to me that no one has told him. None of his political advisors have told him that.

[Tommy Vietor]

Actually this bill would probably hurt Republicans

[Jon Favreau]

because it would make it harder for the lower income Americans, many of whom

[Tommy Vietor]

vote for Donald Trump and vote for

[Jon Favreau]

Republicans now, to register to vote.

[Tommy Vietor]

Because not everyone has their passport lying around, not everyone has their birth certificate lying around. Republicans run around saying that this is

[Jon Favreau]

only about like showing your license and showing some form of ID and isn't that easy to do. And that's not actually what the bill does.

[Tommy Vietor]

The bill is much more comp.

[Jon Favreau]

Makes the bill makes voting and registering

[Tommy Vietor]

to vote much more complicated than that.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I mean it would end under current form, basically end online voter registration and automatic voter registration. We've talked about this before. Not that many Americans have. A majority of Americans do not have passports. The ones who don't have passports are just unfortunately working class and didn't go to college, which has been the core of the Trump base.

[Jonathan Swan]

But it is like I just. So there's a bunch of different things going on here.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It can't pass.

[Jon Favreau]

Right?

[Jonathan Swan]

They tried several times.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It cannot pass.

[Jonathan Swan]

It doesn't have the. There aren't 60 votes, obviously, and there

[Dan Pfeiffer]

aren't 50 votes to eliminate the filibuster.

[Jonathan Swan]

And then even if it were to

[Dan Pfeiffer]

pass, it would be bad for Republicans.

[Jonathan Swan]

And at no point in these various junctures does Trump seem to understand like it just like it's true. It's delusional. The whole thing is delusional. And it seems his obsession with this seems genuine. Like he seems truly. Maybe it's because it's something he wants

[Dan Pfeiffer]

that he can't get.

[Jonathan Swan]

And that's what bothers him. Because up until this point with this Republican caucus, he's been, with the exception of the Epstein files, what he has

[Dan Pfeiffer]

wanted, he has got.

[Jonathan Swan]

You want to confirm a bunch of fucking dunderheads to be in charge of the military and Health and Human Services, we'll do that. You want us to stand idly by while we prosecute people.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

We'll do that.

[Jonathan Swan]

But here's the thing he wants and

[Dan Pfeiffer]

he cannot have, and it seems to be driving him even more bananas than usual.

[Jon Favreau]

I also think that all these things

[Tommy Vietor]

he wants to do with voting and

[Jon Favreau]

the election, he is being told, or has been also told by the courts that he can't do via executive order. But you can tell that if he doesn't get the SAVE act passed, he's still gonna try to do a lot of this shit around the election, which

[Tommy Vietor]

should alarm everyone, of course.

[Jon Favreau]

On the housing bill, though, the thing is going to become law. In fact, right before we started recording, Mike Johnson said that they will be transmitted, he talked to Trump and that they will be transmitting the legislation to Trump. So I assume, although I shouldn't assume, but seems like he might just sign it after all. But even if he doesn't, it becomes law. Like, great, it's good legislation. His opportunity to take credit for it is sort of gone now. And it's not like people are going to feel the effects of this housing bill, certainly not by the midterms, maybe not for a couple of years, because really, it's just sort of reducing barriers to building more affordable housing and sort of changing some of the formulas for how the federal government gives money to states. And now it's going to be based

[Tommy Vietor]

on, you know, whether they've actually produced

[Jon Favreau]

more housing and built more housing. So they can still take credit for it, but I don't think Trump's going to be taking credit for it.

[Jonathan Swan]

But even then. So the. When you, like we should, we'll get into this. But as we know, a bill that

[Dan Pfeiffer]

does not actually impact people's lives has limited political impact.

[Jonathan Swan]

But the moment when people pay attention

[Dan Pfeiffer]

is the signing ceremony 10 days from today. Thursday is the 4th of July weekend,

[Jonathan Swan]

which seems like a bad time to

[Dan Pfeiffer]

get attention for your bill.

[Jon Favreau]

Well, also, he, apparently, the Wall Street Journal has him saying Trump saying to someone, one of his advisors at my rallies, no one cares about the housing bill at my rallies, but when I say Save America, then every. They can't sit down. And then apparently Punchbowl has four sources saying that, that Trump said to Mike Johnson directly, no one gives a shit about housing.

[Jonathan Swan]

Yes, I remember he said that.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

He said that a few months ago,

[Jon Favreau]

like, literally, like, affordability is the top issue. And then when you dive into affordability, like, sometimes it's groceries and gas, sometimes it's housing. But housing is. Housing is like one of the, maybe the top two or three concerns. Of most American voters, and particularly younger

[Dan Pfeiffer]

voters, like this shows up in focus groups.

[Jonathan Swan]

It shows it like, yes.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Is it true that people are not cheering for the 21st century road to Housing Act?

[Jonathan Swan]

Of course. Would it be helpful for Republicans and Democratic incumbents to go to voters and

[Dan Pfeiffer]

say, here is a thing, a bipartisan accomplishment I had that is addressing your concern, even if you're not feeling it? Absolutely. And Trump is just making that messier for Republicans because he can't. He's having some sort of insane temper tantrum over a bill that can't pass.

[Jon Favreau]

After canceling the bill signing, Trump did attend his previously scheduled lunch with Senate Republicans, which went about as well as you can imagine, given the circumstances. According to Senator John Kennedy, Trump was, quote, mad as a murder hornet and berated Republicans for not supporting him on an Iran vote, which then led to a shouting match with Bill Cassidy, who Trump recently drove from office. CNN reports that Trump told Cassidy to sit down. Cassidy refused and raised his voice. Trump called him a lunatic. Cassidy then referred to Trump as brother, and Trump told him he wasn't his brother. And then Cassidy eventually sat down. John Kennedy later said that the meeting was a success because, quote, no one got stabbed, which is an excellent bar to set. Trump also apparently isn't done trying to force Republicans to eat shit on Iran. The administration just asked Congress for $88 billion in funding, which would mostly help

[Tommy Vietor]

pay for the war. How do you think that's gonna go over, Dan?

[Jonathan Swan]

Well, before we get to the war

[Dan Pfeiffer]

funding in this meeting, in the Punchbowl reporting on it, and Punchbowl generally gets, like, a full live texting of these

[Jonathan Swan]

sorts of things, it seems like no one pushed back on Trump on the Save act, even though every Republican senator,

[Dan Pfeiffer]

with the possible exception of Mike Lee and maybe Rick Scott, know it can't pass. None of them would say it to Trump's face, which is why they're in this mess to begin with, which is just like a pure sign of weakness and failure from John Thune.

[Jonathan Swan]

Yeah, like you have him in the room. This is the big problem.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You can't pass anything.

[Jonathan Swan]

The House. It's why we should mention Trump's got everyone so chinned up on this that Anna Paulina Luna has stopped that. Will not allow anything to pass on the House floor until the Senate passes

[Dan Pfeiffer]

the Saved act, which is something that

[Jonathan Swan]

doesn't make a lot of constitutional sense.

[Jon Favreau]

Like, I talk about a bank shot. Yeah.

[Jonathan Swan]

So it's like they can't pass the rule. They can't pass anything. They're Trying to pass the appropriation bills. The entire. They had. They have to go home on Friday

[Dan Pfeiffer]

because they can't do anything.

[Jonathan Swan]

And. And she's demanding that they attach the SAVE act to either the FISA bill or the Defense Authorization bill, which the Senate will then take out in both those cases.

[Adrian]

But.

[Jonathan Swan]

So the whole thing is you have. Trump has got everyone chinned up about this, but no one will say to

[Dan Pfeiffer]

his face why this can't work.

[Jonathan Swan]

It is one thing for his terrible, slavish, obsequious advisors to not say it, but here are members of Congress, Senators who are not up for reelection this year, maybe some of them are not up for reelection ever again, who are incapable of mustering the courage to say to one man a simple math fact.

[Jon Favreau]

And it's like they could have even talked beforehand and said, all right, I'm gonna bring it up, but back me up if I do.

[Gina Hinojosa]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

Strength in numbers. Still nothing. Still, like Bill Cassidy, I guess, got up and yelled at him about the Iranian war powers vote.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. And then changed his vote.

[Jon Favreau]

And then changed his vote because the White House afterwards gave him a briefing that he wanted. And then he felt sad that he raised his voice. I'm like, the guy cost you your job. You're not going to be a senator anymore because of this man.

[Derek]

For.

[Jon Favreau]

For the.

[Adrian (second ad segment)]

For.

[Jon Favreau]

For, I guess, voting for impeachment the second time. Apparently Trump in the meeting, too, was like, all the people that voted for my impeachment, voted to convict me, are gone now. And then, like, he looked over at Lisa Murkowski, who's just, like, sitting there in the corner. He's like, except her. Unbelievable.

[Jonathan Swan]

Does Susan Kalisnoff vote for that?

[Tommy Vietor]

Oh, interesting.

[Jon Favreau]

Did she vote for the second impeachment? She had to have voted for the second impeachment. Maybe she didn't. Maybe.

[Jonathan Swan]

Look, in fairness, we have barely covered

[Dan Pfeiffer]

the main Senate race this year. So

[Jon Favreau]

maybe Susan Collins got smart and just didn't go to the lunch.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Maybe she probably didn't go to the lunch.

[Jon Favreau]

Like, if I were Susan Collins, I would stay clear of anywhere where Donald Trump was. Like, that would just be. That's gotta be a base, like a Campaign 101 kind of thing.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yes.

[Jon Favreau]

So here's the thing now with this Trump and the GOP Congress, I'm wondering, like, how much all this matters, because not many actual work days left between now and the midterms. They're gonna go home for the Fourth of July break. They're gonna come back, there's gonna be August recess, then they come Back then, everyone's campaigning, and then it's November before you know it. Trump seems intent on sabotaging any chance of anything passing before Election Day. I see it. It seems hard to believe that this $88 billion war funding supplemental is going to pass, even though they thought they were really clever and included some Ebola funding in it to try to, like,

[Tommy Vietor]

get Democrats to vote for.

[Jon Favreau]

Doesn't seem like anything else. It doesn't seem like the Save America act is going to pass. But then the question is like, does any of that matter? What do you like in terms of the politics of the midterms?

[Jonathan Swan]

That's an interesting question, because I don't

[Dan Pfeiffer]

think there's any sort of bill, even this housing bill, Republicans could pass that would dramatically change the political dynamics here. Look, I think if you're an incumbent member of Congress and you can pass something that addresses people's number one concern and you can talk about that on the trail or in a debate or in an ad, that's better than nothing. And so this is an opportunity cost for the way Trump stepped on the housing bill. What I think probably matters here is they're going to need to pass this supplemental, which is politically toxic. You know, in that CBS poll, 69% that people think the war hasn't been worth the cost.

[Jonathan Swan]

We haven't even paid the $88 billion yet. So when you start paying, the $88

[Dan Pfeiffer]

billion number is going to get worse.

[Jonathan Swan]

And so they need. And it's. It'll be on reconciliation.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

So they need 50 votes.

[Jonathan Swan]

And in our old world, we used

[Dan Pfeiffer]

to be like, well, Susan Collins doesn't have to vote for it and she'll be fine. But now you've got a bunch of other Republican senators. You have Dan Sullivan, you have John

[Jonathan Swan]

Husted, you got a bunch of people

[Dan Pfeiffer]

who are going to have to probably cast a vote here, and that's going to be an unpopular. But you need everyone to do it

[Jonathan Swan]

because you're going to. You'll probably get Fetterman, I guess. So maybe you can lose three Republicans.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

But that'll be it.

[Tommy Vietor]

Also, there's also a government funding deadline,

[Jonathan Swan]

by the way, I was going to bring that up, too.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Is that.

[Jonathan Swan]

That's the real. That's looming here right before the election?

[Jon Favreau]

It's looming. We got a loomer.

[Jonathan Swan]

We're already looming. It's only June.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. It's September 30th.

[Tommy Vietor]

There's a government funding deadline.

[Jon Favreau]

So you got that. You got this war funding supplemental. Nothing that anyone wants to pass that's for sure.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

If I was Donald Trump and I cared passionately about election integrity, one thing I would do is demand that. I would suggest that I wouldn't sign a government funding bill unless they pass the SAVE Act. It's just an idea. Just an idea.

[Jon Favreau]

I'm sure.

[Jonathan Swan]

I hope it doesn't make it to his ears.

[Jon Favreau]

I'm sure that's already on a notepad somewhere, Dan. Or a whiteboard in the White House, for sure. No, I think. And the other, the other challenge here is I think they thought that this $88 billion war funding supplemental would like. They waited until after they thought the war was over and then so they could sell it as like, oh, this is just backfilling, you know, like now we just, it's for future conflicts and now our military is depleted and we need it. And what are you going to do now? You know, except the war doesn't seem to be over. There was another tanker that was attacked by an Iranian drone today. It does not seem like the traffic, the traffic has increased through the strait, but it is not anywhere near back to normal levels. I believe, like the Chevron is saying the gas prices will be elevated for a while. Trump's flipping out about that now. He's promising to go after price gouging gas companies or open like a DOJ investigation, which, as we know from the Biden administration, works so well.

[Jonathan Swan]

We tried that in the Obama years.

[Jon Favreau]

Us, too. Yeah. It never works, but you say it anyway. And so he's going to have to deal with that. Gas prices are going to be still high. And so when. So that's going to make the $88

[Tommy Vietor]

billion look even worse to voters, I think.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. I mean, it's, it's terrible, honestly. It's probably would have been better to do it when the war was going on so you could make it be about protecting the troops. And instead it's just, it's like, here's the bill has come due for this unfun thing that no one wanted and everyone hated.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. And, and by the way, we've cut all your Medicaid, too, and everything else

[Tommy Vietor]

in the government, so good luck with that.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

But we do, we do have money for ballroom algae. The war on algae.

[Jonathan Swan]

We have. We're still voting for the war on algae.

[Jon Favreau]

It really does make you think, like, when these Republicans hit the trail in the fall, like, they don't have much to say except that Democrats are, as

[Tommy Vietor]

our next topic, Democrats are all crazy socialists.

[Jon Favreau]

Like, I don't know what else they can say. About themselves and what they've done in Congress. I don't really imagine anyone talking about this housing bill because like you said, if the housing bill hasn't really had any effect on housing prices, I don't

[Tommy Vietor]

think that's going to land very well with people.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

They're going to, they will do and it's not going to work and it's going to be pretty pitiful and it is like leading with your chin. But they will talk about the tax provisions in the big beautiful bill. No tax on tips, the Social Security stuff, tax cuts, middle class, which will then allow every Democrat to point out that most of the tax cuts went to billionaires and corporations and that we are paying for those tax cuts for billionaires corporations by cutting healthcare, food assistance, closing rural hospitals, etc.

[Tommy Vietor]

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[Jon Favreau]

Well, before we get too excited about

[Tommy Vietor]

what that midterm might look like, let's talk about what's going on on the Democratic side.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Oh, fun.

[Jon Favreau]

Speaking of intraparty turmoil, we got some fresh drama brewing thanks to the good people of New York City, who had quite a primary on Tuesday. A slate of three candidates endorsed by Zoran Mandani won their Democratic primaries in deep blue House districts. In the 7th district, democratic socialist Claire Valdez won the open seat over a pretty progressive opponent endorsed by the retiring

[Tommy Vietor]

Democratic member of Congress.

[Jon Favreau]

In the 10th district, progressive city comptroller Brad Lander defeated incumbent Dan Goldman in a race that was largely about Israel. Both men are Jewish. Lander ran as a self proclaimed liberal Zionist, but hit Goldman on voting against legislation to block military aid to Israel and taking money from pro Israel lobbying groups. And then the biggest upset of the night in another race that was largely about Israel. Four term Representative Adriano Espiat, head of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus and the first undocumented immigrant to serve in Congress, lost his Harlem Bronx district in an upset to a leftist community organizer named Darieliza Avila Chevalier, a Democratic socialist who also believes in abolishing prisons, police, and all deportations. Now, there were plenty of other primaries in New York and elsewhere on Tuesday where mainstream and moderate Democrats not only won, but in some cases fended off more progressive challengers. But to give everyone a flavor of how the DSA victories are landing in the world of politics, here are reactions from James Carville, Zoran Mamdani, and Hakeem Jeffries.

[James Carville]

Everybody's always said, no, no, we're coalition, we're big tent.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And there's some.

[Jon Favreau]

There's just some shit that I can't

[Dan Pfeiffer]

be in the same tent with.

[James Carville]

Let's negotiate the terms of a schism here. Maybe we can, we can part out some kind of advantageous terms for both of us, but I'm done.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'm not in that fucking political party. What is the Democratic Party if not its voters? And what we saw yesterday evening where Democrats across the city turning out and voting for a new kind of politics.

[Jonathan Swan]

You can't, you can't think this is, this is a positive development in New York politics, can you?

[James Carville]

And all.

[Jonathan Swan]

They'll just, you know, Dems will be Dems or something like that. I don't, I don't see how you can say that.

[Zoran Mamdani]

You need to reject.

[Jonathan Swan]

You need to reject those things.

[Zoran Mamdani]

I think, first of all, first of all, I've clearly rejected those things. That's number one. Number two, and my record speaks for itself. This is not a Dems will be Dems situation. Donald Trump is the President of the United States of America right now. Are you kidding me? I'm happy to talk about primary elections in one of the bluest cities in the country at the end of the day. Listen, our focus is gonna be on ending this national nightmare in this country that America is suffering.

[Jon Favreau]

Okay. Your reaction to the results and then we can do the reaction to the freak out. And I know you wrote a wonderful

[Tommy Vietor]

message box about this today, so thank you.

[Jon Favreau]

Tell us about it.

[Jonathan Swan]

Sure. So let's just start with the elections themselves. No one should dismiss this. Like, two incumbents losing election on the

[Dan Pfeiffer]

same night is a big deal since 1946.

[Jonathan Swan]

So from 1946 to 2024, more than 98% of incumbents have won renomination.

[Tommy Vietor]

Wow.

[Jon Favreau]

In the House.

[Jonathan Swan]

So it is in the House. So it is very rare for members

[Dan Pfeiffer]

of Congress to lose their primaries.

[Jonathan Swan]

Two losing on one night, one of

[Dan Pfeiffer]

them being the chair of the chc and then specifically losing to a political novice with a. I would say, a

[Jonathan Swan]

colorful history of online posts that just

[Dan Pfeiffer]

seem to be in vogue this cycle

[Jonathan Swan]

for Democrats, that's a big deal, so

[Dan Pfeiffer]

we shouldn't dismiss it.

[Jonathan Swan]

I would say the Lander Goldman race

[Dan Pfeiffer]

is a little different in the sense

[Jonathan Swan]

that Lander is a citywide elected official

[Dan Pfeiffer]

who ran for mayor, has high name ID and the endorsement in full support of the very popular mayor, Democratic Socialist mayor of the city.

[Jonathan Swan]

And each of these races are a

[Dan Pfeiffer]

little different in what drove it.

[Jonathan Swan]

But I think the thing we should

[Dan Pfeiffer]

take away is, like so much else that's happening in this country, like is happening when progressives beat establishment candidates in the 2nd district of Maine in the California race where Randy Villegas won, Graham Platner, forcing. Forcing Janet Mills out of the race.

[Jonathan Swan]

There's a giant warning sign for the

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Democratic establishment here where the support of

[Jonathan Swan]

people like Schumer or even Akeem Jeffries is certainly not an asset in your campaign.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It may be a detriment. It is very clear that the groups

[Jonathan Swan]

on the left, Justice Democrats, Democratic Socialists of America, Our Revolution, are out organizing,

[Dan Pfeiffer]

out fundraising, outworking, outmaneuvering the traditional party institutions.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Right?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That is happening. They have captured the energy. They are being more creative, they're being more strategic, they're being more aggressive.

[Jonathan Swan]

And if you are someone in the Democratic establishment, you should be deeply concerned

[Dan Pfeiffer]

about what this says about where the party is, what the standing of the party is, what the ability of the party infrastructure is to actually win elections.

[Jonathan Swan]

So this is a big deal. Now, to Hakeem Jeffrey's point, this is

[Dan Pfeiffer]

taking place in a city that Kamala Harris won by 38 points in what was a bad year for Democrats, particularly in a city like New York. And so this is a very, very, very Democratic city. And all across the country, you're seeing, yes, you're seeing progressive candidates win and you're seeing progressive candidates lead, like Abdul Al said in Michigan, according to the most recent polls. But you're also seeing moderate candidates in Alaska, North Carolina.

[Jonathan Swan]

I don't know if it's fair to

[Dan Pfeiffer]

call Sherrod Brown a moderate, but he's certainly not a Democratic socialist. He's an economic populist.

[Jonathan Swan]

And you saw in New York, just

[Dan Pfeiffer]

on that very same day in New York, 17, one of the most Important districts in the country for Democrats. Take the House. You have a more moderate veteran candidate win.

[Jon Favreau]

That's the Mike Lawler district.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's the Mike Lawler. That's Kate Connolly who won that primary.

[Jonathan Swan]

And so you're seeing. It's like there is a mixed picture,

[Dan Pfeiffer]

but there is in all the races.

[Jonathan Swan]

But there is true, it is very

[Dan Pfeiffer]

true that there is an antipathy throughout the establishment. We can talk about why that is. There is more energy on the left and there is sort of greater tactical, strategic and organizational energy and success among the groups on the left.

[Jon Favreau]

I think that's all right. I also think it's useful to sort of define what the freakout is about because it's even more, it's even narrower, I think, than just like, you know, there's, there's some progressives winning in places and DSA places and moderate. Even just the three races we're talking

[Tommy Vietor]

about here from Tuesday night, we're talking

[Jon Favreau]

about three races and three House races. And in one of those races, Claire Valdez seems like a normal DSA candidate in the vein of an AOC or

[Tommy Vietor]

a member of the squad.

[Jon Favreau]

Right. We talked about Brad Lander. Lander is basically like a standard progressive Democrat.

[Jonathan Swan]

Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Standard New York City progressive Democrats.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Derek]

But.

[Jon Favreau]

And also has said like, you know, after he won, was like, I want to go help frontline members who are out there and I hope some of the moderates come help me. And I've helped moderates before. And so like, that's Brad Lander, really here. The panic is over. Dariel Isa Avila Chevalier. And I will just say she might be the most left wing candidate to

[Tommy Vietor]

ever win a Democratic primary in our lifetime.

[Jon Favreau]

There's been a lot of focus on her old tweets, which she has deleted and mostly apologized for. I'm fine with that. My general position is to give people a chance who want to take back something they said or posted. Certainly would love to take back things that I've posted. And I also think that, like, some of her tweets have been taken out of context and exaggerated. Here's where I have a problem. She has not apologized for attending an

[Tommy Vietor]

anti Israel rally on October 8.

[Jon Favreau]

October 8, 2023, a rally that was condemned by Zoran Mamdani, AOC and Brad

[Tommy Vietor]

Lander, who we were just talking about,

[Jon Favreau]

who actually left the DSA because it promoted that rally where attendees chanted that Hamas's resistance was justified the day after October 7, the day after they slaughtered a thousand Israelis. And to this day, she still defends attending that rally. The other problem I have, she sat for an interview with the New York Editorial Board last week. Last week, where she said she's against all deportations. She's for open borders. Because, quote, bordering is a very modern construct. Actually, the borders are in our hearts and our minds. She wants to abolish prisons and refused to say when asked she got four different chances on this. Refused to say that a convicted murderer should be sentenced to any jail time at all. And they kept giving her another chance, like, are you sure? But what happens to the murderer just convicted?

[Tommy Vietor]

Nothing.

[Jon Favreau]

Now maybe she turns over a new leaf in Congress and, like, her voting

[Tommy Vietor]

record doesn't match some of these more extreme positions.

[Jon Favreau]

I hope so. But I think the reason I bring

[Tommy Vietor]

this up is because when Democrats get questions about this, I think the answer is easy and important to give, which

[Jon Favreau]

is that she currently holds a range of views that go from moronic to abhorrent. And not only those views not aligned with most Democrats in the country. Nearly all Democrats in the country all elected Democrats, actually, most elected Democratic socialists. But, like, I don't even think they align with, like, a lot of the people who probably voted for her. And so, like, I think people should just. You just gotta say that. And I don't think you lump her. I think it. I think it does a disservice to the other progressives and the other even DSA members to pretend that she is part of this. Like, there's new energy and it's great and whatever. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. It's one thing to have these views in the past and be like, you know what?

[Tommy Vietor]

I've learned? I've grown.

[Jon Favreau]

What she said about some of her tweets. But to sit there a week ago and be like, yeah, no prisons, no borders, no police.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Here's the thing also, who cares?

[Jon Favreau]

Well, but I already see people doing the. Like, you know, like. Well, we gotta understand the energy. No, no, we gotta understand the energy. With a lot of these candidates.

[Jonathan Swan]

She is.

[Jon Favreau]

That was a mistake. And like, Mamdani endorsing her also.

[Tommy Vietor]

Probably a mistake.

[Jonathan Swan]

Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I mean, you'll notice that when Bernie Sanders did his congratulatory tweet afterwards, he congratulated Brad Lander and Claire Valdez.

[Jon Favreau]

Oh, he did. Because Bernie's fucking smart. That's why.

[Jonathan Swan]

I mean, those are the two. Those are the two he specifically endorsed. But he did two, not three. But also, she's one member of Congress.

[Jon Favreau]

Right?

[James Carville]

Right.

[Jonathan Swan]

This is who the voters picked. So in two years, someone's Got the

[Dan Pfeiffer]

opportunity to challenge her.

[James Carville]

Totally.

[Tommy Vietor]

I don't want to.

[Jonathan Swan]

Maybe she comes to Congress and she's a productive member, maybe she's not. It doesn't. But it's. It's just like. I think.

[Jon Favreau]

I'm not saying it's the end of the world. I'm saying that I actually think it's very easy here.

[Jonathan Swan]

Oh yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

What I'm saying what.

[Tommy Vietor]

Don't gift.

[Jon Favreau]

She is a. She is about to be the biggest celebrity on the right of all time. She's going to. She's already like starring on FOX in every fucking segment. And it's going to be like that forever.

[Derek]

And.

[Jon Favreau]

And you know what? Most people, when they hear her, there's tape of her saying all these things last week. When they hear that, they're gonna be like, this is fucking nuts. And then if they go to Democrats and be like, what do you think? And Democrats are like, ah, it's not a big deal. Everyone's freaking out over nothing. Then you would not blame the voter for being like, well, that's weird. Why wouldn't you just say it's crazy.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The Republicans will try to make her a celebrity, a face of the party. I think they're gonna really struggle to pick an unelected member of Congress as the face of the party when they have struggled to make AOC or Nancy Pelosi or someone else the face of the party.

[Jonathan Swan]

But let'. Let's say. Let's say it comes up like, is it kick them up in debate.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Come interview.

[Jonathan Swan]

If you're a member running in any

[Dan Pfeiffer]

district, frankly, but strictly a. A frontline member in a purple district or a red district.

[Jonathan Swan]

There's no, there's no greater gift than

[Dan Pfeiffer]

the opportunity to distance yourself from.

[Brandon]

Yes.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Somebody.

[Jon Favreau]

So that's why I said that.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Zoran Mamdani]

Yeah.

[Jonathan Swan]

So I think.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes. I like for sure.

[Jonathan Swan]

I think that they're the freak out. There's a couple. Let's try to like break like the freak out is. It's is not just about her.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The freakout's about a few things that are sort of political and institutional.

[Jonathan Swan]

One of them is there's always this

[Dan Pfeiffer]

fear that Democrats are going to nominate candidates too liberal to win the general election.

[Jonathan Swan]

That is not a fear here.

[Zoran Mamdani]

No.

[Jonathan Swan]

Right.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

These are.

[Jonathan Swan]

Some of the most Democratic people are all going Congress.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, they're all going to Congress.

[Jonathan Swan]

So that's. And that we are not seeing a

[Dan Pfeiffer]

situation where currently we'll see what. You know, people are going to have an argument about Maine, about Maine Senate,

[Jonathan Swan]

but we have not as of yet for the most part we have not been the Democratic voters, not the institutions,

[Dan Pfeiffer]

not the groups, anyone, not the party apparatus. The voters are not picking candidates who may be too liberal to win. The possible exceptions there are Randy Villegas, which is the dcc, picked a different candidate in that race. And then Matt Dunlop instead of Baldacci, the son of the former governor in Maine. Second district.

[Jonathan Swan]

We probably were running the main second district.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Under any scenario, you need a very, very good year for that. That's really like. Only that's what it's.

[Jon Favreau]

Unless Jared golden had not retired.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Right? Jared golden is like Joe Manchin. Right. The only person who could win that was probably Jared Golden. The other fear is that this is evidence of like an upright, a Tea Party like moment for the party.

[Jonathan Swan]

And there are. It's, I think it's a bad comparison

[Dan Pfeiffer]

because the Tea Party was a very specific thing in time. That's about a very specific thing in time. That was largely, it was a sort of astroturfed, corporate funded reaction to the election of a black president.

[Jonathan Swan]

But what you are seeing is the

[Dan Pfeiffer]

party base saying they are done with the establishment, they are done with the leadership. They've created skepticism.

[Jonathan Swan]

That leader.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think there's three reasons why that skepticism exists.

[Jonathan Swan]

One of it is, and it's different

[Dan Pfeiffer]

in every race and it's even different in some of those races in New York.

[Jonathan Swan]

One is anger that the party has

[Dan Pfeiffer]

failed to stand up to Trump. The second is that the party is

[Jonathan Swan]

too captured by corporate interests, too unable, unwilling, too cowardly to take on the

[Dan Pfeiffer]

interests and to advocate for working people. They're not addressing people's economic pain. And then the third reason is Israel and Gaza. And that was obviously particularly prominent in the land or Goldman race where that was a prim point of distinction between

[Jonathan Swan]

the two of them.

[Jon Favreau]

And the Chevalier race with.

[Jonathan Swan]

And the Chevalier race.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes, yeah, yeah.

[Jonathan Swan]

And you, you see that in like each of the, like the knob, the dial turns to different, to different levels

[Dan Pfeiffer]

in each different race around the country, around those three things.

[Jonathan Swan]

The other question is, is the party

[Dan Pfeiffer]

becoming, moving dramatically to the left? Right.

[Jonathan Swan]

And I think that one is interesting because it is an incontrovertible fact that the party is more liberal than it

[Dan Pfeiffer]

was 10 years ago.

[Jonathan Swan]

Like when Obama ran for reelection in the Gallup polling, 42% of Democrats consider

[Dan Pfeiffer]

themselves liberal or very liberal and 36% considered themselves moderate. Today, north of 54% consider themselves liberal or very liberal and 34% consider themselves moderate. Now I could do a full podcast

[Jonathan Swan]

on how that number happens. Because the moderate number stays the same

[Dan Pfeiffer]

and the liberal number goes up.

[Chris]

Right.

[Jonathan Swan]

And it's certainly not from conservatives becoming liberals.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's because the conservatives left the party

[Jonathan Swan]

and they're replaced by white, college educated liberals who were former Republican voters. But, like, that is true.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

But.

[Jon Favreau]

And white college educated voters and just high educated, highly educated voters in general have just become more specifically become more liberal in their own views.

[Erin Ryan]

Yes.

[Jonathan Swan]

And it has led to, as the

[Dan Pfeiffer]

party has become less working class in its Orient, in its identity, and frankly, its orientation, cultural issues, social issues, climate change, democracy, immigration, crime, LGBTQ rights have risen in priority for the party, and that has made people identify as more liberal. But it is worth just remembering that the core part of any successful Democratic coalition is black voters, and black voters remain more moderate than the party. You see this in this really fascinating Pew political typology study that came out last month is very clear that black and Latino voters and Asian voters are much more moderate or more moderate, I would say much more moderate. More moderate than the sort of this activist, more liberal Democratic base.

[Jon Favreau]

Particularly. Particularly crime and immigration.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Crime and immigration. The two.

[Jonathan Swan]

And then the other question is, are Democrats becoming socialists?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And this is also really interesting because,

[Jonathan Swan]

you know, and there is this Gallup

[Dan Pfeiffer]

poll that everyone fixates on, which showed that 66% of registered Democrats have a positive view of socialism. And then in the New York Times poll that we've talked ad nauseam, about 49% of Democrats have Democrats and Democrat leaning independents. It's one sample have a favorable view of socialism.

[Jonathan Swan]

And interestingly enough, a plurality of every age cohort, including Democrats over 65, have

[Dan Pfeiffer]

a favorable view of socialism.

[Jonathan Swan]

Now, here's a pop quiz for you.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I asked Caroline this on Polar Coaster,

[Jonathan Swan]

but can you guess which group has

[Dan Pfeiffer]

the favorite, highest favorability of socialism?

[Tommy Vietor]

Let's see.

[Jon Favreau]

Young men.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, which age cohort it is actually men 30 to 44.

[Jon Favreau]

Okay, okay, but 30, 44, that's us, right?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's you. That's not me. Thank you for pointing that out. Thank you for pointing that out.

[Jon Favreau]

No, it's not me anymore. Fuck, I'm 44.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, that's true. It was you. You just moved in.

[Jonathan Swan]

But it's actually. It's millennial. It's millennials more than younger.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's by about 9 points, actually is interesting. Which I think is coming of age in the Great Recession.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, well, and it speaks to sort of the question that you're raising by

[Tommy Vietor]

these maybe surprising results to some people, which is.

[Jon Favreau]

I do think it is more of a commentary on Capitalism and the failures of capitalism, at least how people have felt that in their own lives, than a love of socialism.

[James Carville]

Or.

[Jon Favreau]

I think if you ask, then, and I haven't seen a poll that's done this, like, what do you think of

[Tommy Vietor]

when you think of socialism?

[Jon Favreau]

They think of, like, Bernie Sanders and universal healthcare, not abolishing prisons.

[Jonathan Swan]

Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Which is not necessarily. A lot of socialist countries had a lot of prisons, actually.

[Erin Ryan]

Yes.

[Jon Favreau]

Famously so.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Famously so. Someone had gulags, you would say.

[Jon Favreau]

And you know. And you know what?

[Tommy Vietor]

Every country has borders.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's true. Every single one, both in their mind and in reality.

[Jonathan Swan]

So I was going to say the socialism you hit on the key point

[Dan Pfeiffer]

here, which is, I think it's more of an indictment of capitalism than socialism.

[Jonathan Swan]

And so I guess the question is,

[Dan Pfeiffer]

if you're a Democrat, like, how do you react to all of this? And the advice that I've been giving candidates other people is one,

[Jonathan Swan]

You have

[Dan Pfeiffer]

to find a way to separate yourselves from the establishment everyone hates. You can't be a typical Democrat, and you have to understand what makes people so mad about it and show that you have a solution to it or different from it.

[Jonathan Swan]

The second thing is you don't have to embrace socialism, but you sure as hell better understand what is causing people to embrace socialism and speak to that economic pain. And you gotta find a way to

[Dan Pfeiffer]

have some sort of energy and excitement and authenticity in your life.

[Jonathan Swan]

What is, I think. What is, I think powering some of

[Dan Pfeiffer]

these, not socialists necessarily, but some socialists, some dsa, some more progressive candidates is

[Jonathan Swan]

they are speaking with authenticity and conviction about issues.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Whether it's Abdul talking about Medicare for all in Michigan, whether it's Platner talking about how the elite system has failed him and failed so many manners. It's how Zoran has talked about cost of living. It's like there's this authenticity and conviction to it that most of the people that you don't get from a lot of moderates, not all moderates or somebody do it, but it doesn't show up in the same way.

[Jon Favreau]

There's two more reasons that I think

[Tommy Vietor]

there's so much anger at the Democratic establishment right now.

[Jon Favreau]

One is, we have said for a long time now, since Iraq, that people, they don't want to spend money on endless foreign wars.

[Tommy Vietor]

They don't want to lose American lives and forever wars.

[Jon Favreau]

They also don't want to spend a

[Tommy Vietor]

lot of money because they feel like we spent. And they're right, like billions and billions and trillions of dollars on Iraq and other Foreign adventures that have not worked out.

[Jon Favreau]

I think that is how most people who are upset with how Biden handled Gaza feel. Right. It is not Israel has no right to exist. It is why is our money being spent or being sent to Bibi Netanyahu

[Tommy Vietor]

and the Israeli government who have just slaughtered thousands and thousands and thousands of

[Jon Favreau]

people in Gaza and are now doing

[Tommy Vietor]

the same in Lebanon.

[Jon Favreau]

And that feeling cuts across party ideology. It is not fucking horseshoe. It is not like the far left and the far right go sit in

[Tommy Vietor]

a focus group, go talk to most voters.

[Jon Favreau]

It is a very common feeling. And the fact that people look at the Democratic establishment and don't feel like that they are on or they feel the same way or they're acting the

[Tommy Vietor]

same way is a huge fucking problem.

[Jon Favreau]

You also said people are mad that

[Tommy Vietor]

the Democratic establishment hasn't stood up to Trump enough.

[Jon Favreau]

I also think Dave Weigel made this point today, reporter at Semaphore, that they're still mad that the Democratic establishment fucking lost to Trump again. Like, that is. I know we're all like, we don't go back and look back at 24 and all that kind of stuff. Like, we lost to Donald Trump for the second time after the guy was convicted of crimes and sent an insurrectionist mob to the Capitol.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's the original sin.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. The people who were in charge there, people aren't gonna feel too warm and fuzzy towards them. Like, that is just. That, to me, is looming over everything. Like, yes, there's the corporate stuff and economic. All that is real money in politics. Establishment, too cozy. All of it's real, for sure. But like, if we had just beaten Donald Trump, then a lot of voters would not think that. Yeah, and so that's. That's going to be a big one, too.

[Adrian (second ad segment)]

Pont Save America is brought to you by Rocket Money. Thanks to the good people at Rocket Money, I realized that I had been upcharged by a streaming service for access to one show because it was a foreign thing that Hannah and I had watched during the pandemic one time, one episode of it, then abandoned it and then forgot to cancel it. And we're getting charged like 10 bucks a month in perpetuity. That's why you all need Rocket Money. Here's what they do. They allow you to track subscriptions and cancel them within the app with just a few taps. In fact, Rocket Money has saved users over $880 million in canceled subscriptions. You can categorize automatic transactions across your accounts and customize categories with tags to help shed light on Your spending patterns. Get regular reports on your spending habits. You can even receive real time alerts for large transactions, upcoming bills, refunds, and low balances. Consolidate your checking, savings, loans and investment accounts into a single dashboard to give you a clear picture of your finances. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bill so you can grow your savings. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Join at RocketMoney.com/Crooked that's RocketMoney.com Crooked RocketMoney.com

[Jon Favreau]

Crooked Pod Save America is brought to

[Adrian]

you by Fast Growing Trees. Fast Growing Trees is America's largest online nursery with thousands of trees and plants for every space and climate. And they make it easy to get plants that actually work for your yard delivered right to your door. Okay, we can sense your skepticism about ordering live vegetation on the Internet, but the proof is in the plants. Fast Growing Trees says ship plants down. They are shipping them to use it as science.

[Jon Favreau]

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[Adrian]

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Right? Proof is in the planting. Right. Pudding. Proof is in the pudding. Proof is in the planting.

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Famously, huh?

[Adrian]

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's a boring day.

[Adrian]

It's like I keep the plants humid in transit. It's like, oh my God, I gotta meet somebody. Your plants get there, they look amazing.

[Tommy Vietor]

Like, they get like they're local, but

[Adrian]

every order's back for the live and thrive guarantee. And so in the odd chance you do have any issues with delivery, you're covered. I love Fast Growing Trees plants. We got a bunch of them in the office. They're amazing. They're amazing. They're secured in the box, they're healthy. When they get here, soil's in place. There's no mess. When the boxes are open, the trees are. The branches are bound. Then after a day they're unfolded to their full glory. Great deals on spring planting essentials. Right now, listeners get an additional 20% off their first order with the code CROOKED at checkout. That's 20% [e-mail] with code CROOKED at checkout.

[Tommy Vietor]

Terms and conditions apply.

[Jon Favreau]

So here's something fun. The primary season isn't over yet and the left targeting a few other big races in places that aren't as blue as New York City. We talked about some of these. But in Colorado, Democratic Socialist Milat Kiros is running against Congressman Diana DeGette, though that's also a safe seat, even though it's in Colorado. In Wisconsin, DSA State Rep. Francesca Hong is running for governor in a crowded field that includes lieutenant Governor Sarah Rodriguez and Mandela Barnes. And in Michigan, our pal Abdul El Sayed is in a tight Senate primary with Mallory McMorrow and Representative Haley Stevens. So it does feel like there's a little more at stake in the, in the Wisconsin and Michigan primaries. What is your read on those?

[Jonathan Swan]

You know, it's, it's very hard to

[Dan Pfeiffer]

play the prospective electability game. Right. The argument here is among some, and I'm not making this argument that Hong and Abdul are less electable than other candidates on the ballot. And in Wisconsin, there's already a movement. One of the center left candidates is dropped out and endorsed Rodriguez and is there's a movement to try to consolidate the field around Rodriguez. I honestly don't know enough about that race to know for sure that one candidate is more electable than the other. I know that's a very hard race. Right. It's, that's a, it's a very tough state. Winning a third term in a row is always challenging for governors. So you know, that's gonna be tough race.

[Jonathan Swan]

Michigan, the polling is, you know, Abdul is leading in the polls.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Haley Stevens is in second. The candidate that I have supported by McMurrow is in third.

[Jonathan Swan]

There have been hypothetical tests against Mike

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Rogers, who's a very, very good candidate. He lost by just, I think about 24,000 votes to listen, Slotkin in 24.

[Jonathan Swan]

You know, the polling shows, that we've seen shows maybe McMorrow and Stevens a couple points more, you know, doing better

[Dan Pfeiffer]

against Rogers than Abdul.

[Jonathan Swan]

I don't know what to make of that.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Whether that is real or not. It's not, it's not a dramatic difference in that. So it's, it's hard to say. Abdul's obviously a very, very talented candidate, is very talented communicator. Would he be able to navigate the tax. That will certainly come to him as a, as a Bernie endorsed candidate, a Muslim candidate who will be attacked for his views on everything in his background. He certainly is talented enough to be able to navigate that.

[Jonathan Swan]

But I am not, I can't look

[Dan Pfeiffer]

at those races and say if we nominate, you know, Hong or Abdul, we're certainly going to lose. Like, it's, it's not that, it's not that clear to me. And it's certainly. No one has presented evidence to that fact.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, it's tough. I mean, look, I, I'm. And I'm supporting Abdul. His friend had a pot on crooked. But you know, I'll be honest like that, that is the race where. And again, because it's less about like, I mean it is about who these candidates are, but it's also very much about the environment in the state. And you know, even like Platner is running in a state that is much,

[Tommy Vietor]

much more Democratic than Michigan.

[Jon Favreau]

And I do think that if, if a Bernie endorsed sort of more lefty candidate can pull it off in Michigan, I do think Abdul can do it. But I think it's gonna be tough and he's gonna face all kinds of

[Tommy Vietor]

attacks, not just for his ideological position, but many unfair attacks like you said, cause he's Muslim.

[Jon Favreau]

So I think that's gonna be a challenge. And then I think with Francesca Wong, same thing. And I don't know her as well, but I saw it like she'd had, you know, she'd had some past support for or advocated at one point, like defund the police. And then last week, you know, she had a video that said, there's no way I'm going to cut public safety. And that to me is like, okay, this is the kind like, yes, this is what you need to do to win these states. And like if you are a further left candidate in a state like Wisconsin, in a state like Michigan, I'm not saying like just, you know, change all

[Tommy Vietor]

of your fucking positions.

[Jon Favreau]

You shouldn't do that. But you do have to run like you're running a general election in a purple state, which you are. And know where the voters are and know, you know, I'm sure for Wong and for, I know for Abdul, like the most important issues, Medicare for all, health care, sort of economic populism. And I would imagine that they're going to emphasize those above all else and then have something to say on some of the attacks that are going to

[Tommy Vietor]

come their way on crime and immigration and cultural issues.

[Jon Favreau]

But I don't think that's gonna be easy. But I do think, like I saw that, I saw what Wang had done about there's no way I'm gonna cut public safety and contrasted that with some

[Tommy Vietor]

of the stuff that we just talked

[Jon Favreau]

about in New York City. And I'm like, see, that's the difference right there in Mamdani, right. Mamdani campaigned, has all kinds of past positions and he has increased the police budget since he's been mayor. And guess what? And he's done all of his other stuff that he talked about.

[Tommy Vietor]

Right.

[Jon Favreau]

The rent freeze, I believe is going into effect today. He's trying to do all the other stuff and he's wildly popular.

[Jonathan Swan]

Yeah, it is like there when we talked about some.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The Tea Party comparison here is that in both the 2010 and 2012 Senate races, the Republicans nominated a bunch of candidates in states they should have won, like Indiana, Missouri, Delaware in 2010, where Mike Castle would have walked into the Senate and instead they nominated Christine o', Donnell, who did not walk into the

[Jon Favreau]

Senate nor does she fly in on her broomstick.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Notice you find a broomstick.

[Tommy Vietor]

Deep cut.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Deep cut. There's a 15 year old reference to a Senate race.

[Erin Ryan]

15?

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah. Okay, 15.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

20, 10. Yeah. 16. 16 years.

[Jonathan Swan]

But one of the things, the mistakes

[Dan Pfeiffer]

those candidates made is they also ran terrible racist because they refused to acknowledge the reality of the states in which they were running.

[Jon Favreau]

Yes.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And you can be a liberal candidate,

[Jonathan Swan]

you can be more liberal than the electorate and still win if you are

[Dan Pfeiffer]

running a smart strategic race that does acknowledge the realities of what it takes to win in a state like Wisconsin or Michigan.

[Jon Favreau]

And it depends on which issues you're more liberal than the electorate on. Yeah, that's a big one. We use like liberal, conservative, left, right. As just like these catch all terms, but it really depends on what you're talking about.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's right. That's right. And it's not just issues. It's obviously things you've said, things you've

[Jonathan Swan]

done, who you are, your cultural connection to people.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

But yes, you can, like if you were a serious candidate, can win in the right environment, running the right campaign.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

All right, so Tommy talked to Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan this week about their new Trump book, Regime Change. Go listen to that interview if you haven't already.

[Tommy Vietor]

It's great.

[Jon Favreau]

But one of the more incredible anecdotes in the book is a dinner at the White House in October of last year where Trump asks Rupert Murdoch in front of Marco Rubio and J.D.

[Tommy Vietor]

vance, who are sitting at the table,

[Jon Favreau]

which one he liked best and to rate both of them. And Murdoch reportedly said of Rubio, marco is brilliant, and said of Vance, I think JD has the potential to be great. Vance apparently tried to laugh it off with the sarcastic line, oh, thanks. Thanks, Rupert. Thanks a lot. Of course, we here at Pod Save America think Murdoch and Trump and others are just being grossly unfair to our boy JD who has continued to just ooze charisma during the press tour for his new book. Just as one example, check out this exchange with conservative columnist Ross Douthat at

[Tommy Vietor]

the New York Times.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Let's be honest, the tone of the administration is not consistently a Christian tone. There is a tone of aggressive uncharity to people who aren't on board with the administration's policies.

[Tommy Vietor]

The tone argument is. In some ways, I think people see what they want to see. And I also think that tonal arguments are ways of frankly policing working class ways of communication and covering them in elite preferences.

[Jon Favreau]

Okay, I think that tonal arguments are ways of policing working class ways of communication and covering them in elite preferences. Few things. First of all, you sound like the right wing version of a woke scold from academia who can't get off blue sky. That's what that sounded like. Two, I'm not sure how the Manhattan billionaire president calling Americans he doesn't like humans scum is a working class way of communication. And I do think it's a bit insulting to working class Americans that J.D. vance assumes that they all speak about their fellow Americans that way. I'm also not sure when like loving thy neighbor and Christian charity became an elite preference.

[Tommy Vietor]

That's an elite preference now.

[Jon Favreau]

Wild. Just from top to bottom.

[Tommy Vietor]

Wild.

[Jon Favreau]

Is that just me? I don't know. I couldn't, I couldn't believe that when I, when I saw that, I would say.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You did say to say to us in our production meeting today that you could do a whole podcast on this topic.

[Jon Favreau]

I think it was like the last time I tweeted, actually. I mean, I've been like, like retweeting things here and there. But the last time I really tweeted was a week ago. And because I've been trying not to tweet that much, but I saw that and I just. First of all, I couldn't stop laughing. And then I listened to the whole interview because with Ross, which was fun,

[Tommy Vietor]

which was a real journey.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I think people should know that you had a day to yourself in Chicago, a beautiful summer day in Chicago. You were by yourself.

[Jonathan Swan]

You could have done anything in the world. And what did you do?

[James Carville]

And I did.

[Jon Favreau]

And it was a beautiful day. And I walked down by the lake and I walked all the way to Lincoln park where we used to live. And I had a great day. But while I was walking, I was listening.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You thought to myself what?

[Alyssa Mastromonaco]

I was listening.

[Jon Favreau]

You thought to myself with Ross Douthat.

[Tommy Vietor]

And JD Vance.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And JD Vance. Good for you.

[Jonathan Swan]

Look, I very much agree with you here.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It is like using the term tone policing is just perfect.

[Jonathan Swan]

But the bigger point with this is,

[Dan Pfeiffer]

and it says something about J.D. vance, which is J.D. vance came from a working class background. Like his story is very famous.

[Jonathan Swan]

But what he, and it is a,

[Dan Pfeiffer]

you know, as told in his book and the Netflix movie of which he was a producer made of his life

[Zoran Mamdani]

story

[Jonathan Swan]

tells you is that he picked

[Dan Pfeiffer]

himself up by his bootstraps, went to an Ivy League college, went to the military, became quite successful, became a venture capitalist, CNN commentator, all the things that all the, all, all the checklists on the MAGA resume that you need. Hollywood producer, venture capitalist and Hollywood producer

[Jonathan Swan]

or CNN commentator, all the above. And became an elite. That's his story.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The story is someone who was raised

[Jonathan Swan]

in this incredible difficult scenario involving drug addiction and poverty and rises to the

[Dan Pfeiffer]

most elite pinnacles of American society, becomes the Vice President of the United States.

[Jonathan Swan]

But what he has taken from that

[Dan Pfeiffer]

is, that is he's become elite and he looks down his nose at everyone

[Jonathan Swan]

else because this is the he tries to in the Trump era, not the

[Dan Pfeiffer]

pre Trump era, but the in his post. Trump's not really no longer Hitler, I shall work for him and serve him era.

[Jonathan Swan]

He tries to put on the clothes

[Dan Pfeiffer]

of an anti elitist, but he is

[Jonathan Swan]

not, he is a pure elitist. And there is nothing more elitist than

[Dan Pfeiffer]

saying that basically telling someone not to be a dick to their fellow citizens is anti working class.

[Jon Favreau]

Look, when Trump goes out there and Rob Reiner dies and he celebrates with the truth social post, or celebrates that Bob Mueller dies with the true social post, that's just what working class people do.

[Jonathan Swan]

They're doing at the diner, at the bar.

[Jon Favreau]

That's just how they talk. And the reason he knows that is because he serves a working class president, Donald Trump. Donald J. Trump cares about the working people, is of the working people. And that's just, that's how he talks.

[Tommy Vietor]

That's how working class people talk.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

When the working class president fires off an offensive truth from the gold toilet upon which he's sitting, that is working class talk.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

When he says, look, we Just can't afford childcare. We can't afford to give people childcare. But also, check out my ballroom. And look at the gold. Look at the gold everywhere. That's again, real gold. If I had a nickel for every time a working class person said that, I wouldn't be working class. I'd be. I'd be, as.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

JD Vance, amazing.

[Jon Favreau]

Ross Douthit. Like, he looked like he wanted to laugh, too, which is the first time

[Dan Pfeiffer]

that's ever happened in Ross Dalfit's life. A truly humorless man.

[Jon Favreau]

I felt bad for Ross because he had to. The problem with that interview is he had to cram too many topics in because JD Vance only gave him a certain amount of time. And so there was so many crazy things that J.D. vance said that you could tell that Death Lee wanted to follow up on,

[Tommy Vietor]

and he just had to.

[Jon Favreau]

He moved on to the next thing. And I was like, you should have. I would have just. I would have asked him about that sentence.

[Jonathan Swan]

Maybe you would have done a whole podcast. J.D. vance, come on offline. Do a whole podcast.

[Jon Favreau]

Religion, all the other stuff. I would have just given up. And I would have been like, let's talk about the tonal arguments and the tone policing. We don't want to be tone policing. Anyway, one more of these from J.D. vance. There was another very human, very authentic Vance moment this week that also got a lot of attention. Apparently, Usha Vance hosts a YouTube series called Storytime with the Second lady, where she and a guest read to kids.

[Tommy Vietor]

Very nice.

[Jon Favreau]

And this week's special guest was JD who is allegedly her husband. Let's see how it went.

[Erin Ryan]

Today's special reader is my husband, Vice

[Jonathan Swan]

President of the United States, J.D. vance.

[Erin Ryan]

Thanks for joining us today, honey.

[Adrian]

Of course.

[Jon Favreau]

Good to see you. Now, if you're just listening to this, pause it. Go to the YouTube app on your phone. Go to Pod, Save America, YouTube or your laptop.

[Tommy Vietor]

Get to the nearest YouTube app you

[Jon Favreau]

can get to and watch this. Because what he does there is he

[Tommy Vietor]

says, good to see ya, and then

[Jon Favreau]

reaches awkwardly across and gives her two

[Tommy Vietor]

fatherly pats on the knee. Very light pats on the knee. Just light pats. Pulls the hand back, and then they just sit and stare at each other.

[Jon Favreau]

Is that how you and Hawley greet

[Tommy Vietor]

each other after a long day apart? Dan?

[Jonathan Swan]

I will say that if you can't

[Dan Pfeiffer]

look, it's hard to be a public figure, right? For sure, the glare of the spotlight is intense, but if there's one moment

[Jonathan Swan]

where you could possibly be yourself, it

[Dan Pfeiffer]

would be Sitting with your wife. And he is incapable of doing that.

[Jonathan Swan]

Like, it honestly seems like they have

[Dan Pfeiffer]

never met each other.

[Jon Favreau]

It's like, you also. It's not like he had to, like, give her a big kiss or like, he could have just done nothing. He didn't have to tap her knee like that.

[Jonathan Swan]

Well, it's like you can see it.

[Jon Favreau]

Like, he looked like he was about to be like, looks like you got a bun in the oven there. Like, it was.

[Jonathan Swan]

Honestly, it's just, it's. I mean, I just. It's like the first meeting between a man who's never had a date before and a mail order bride. It's just so. I just don't.

[Jon Favreau]

Also, also, like, I hope everyone realizes that they could have edited that, right? They could have done another take. They could have cut that part out. It wasn't a live performance. It was a White House thing.

[Jonathan Swan]

Yeah, it does make you wonder, are there somewhere on the cutting room floor of the White House, are there nine kneepacks that were less affectionate than that one?

[Jon Favreau]

Did he perhaps like, high five her

[Tommy Vietor]

for the first time?

[Jonathan Swan]

Yes. Yes. Is there a fist bump?

[Jon Favreau]

Did he shake her hand? Nice to see you. I'm jd.

[Jonathan Swan]

Yes.

[Jon Favreau]

Wow. Anyway, watch out. Marco Rubio.

[Jonathan Swan]

As Ruby Murdoch would say, he's got

[Dan Pfeiffer]

the potential to be great.

[Jon Favreau]

He certainly does. He certainly does. That potential, it's there somewhere. We have not seen it yet. Neither has Rupert, but it's there. Okay, when we come back, I'll talk to the Democratic candidate for governor of Texas, Gina Hinojosa.

[Tommy Vietor]

Podcast of America is brought to you by Sundays. If you've ever had a dog who's picky when it comes to food, we do you know how surprisingly stressful it can be? You'll try every brand under the sun in the hopes that your dog will finally find the one they like. But maybe the answer is simply that your dog knows the difference between processed brown pellets and real food. Sundays for dogs is different. They start with over 80% all natural meats, and then finish with superfoods like kale, ginger and blueberries. All of the ingredients are gently air dried instead of using high heat. Sundaes doesn't look or smell like traditional store bought dog food. It looks like high quality jerky, the kind humans would eat. No fillers, no nutritional blends, no chemicals, just simple, complete nutrition. Founded by Dr. Tori Waxman, Sundaes was created to meet her high standards as a veterinarian and as a dog parent. And the best part, Sundays requires no fridge, no freezer. No prep, no mess. You get the quality of a home cooked meal with a scoop and serve. Ease of kibble. It's what dog food should have been all along. Our dog Leo can definitely tell the difference between real food and dog food because he really likes the real food and is always trying to get it off the table. But now that he has sundaes, he is very excited. Every time he eats, we pour it into the bowl, he runs to the bowl and it's easy to store. It doesn't smell bad like some of the other dog food and we love it. Make the switch to Sundays. Go right now to sundaysfordogs.com crooked50 and get 50% off your first order. Or you can use code CROOKED50 at checkout. That's 50% off your first order at sundaysfordogs.com CROOKED50 sundaysfordogs.com CROSSED50 or use code CROOKED50@ checkout.

[Gina Hinojosa]

Quick question.

[Alyssa Mastromonaco]

Are you politically engaged and spiritually exhausted

[Erin Ryan]

if you said yes to both? Welcome home. I'm Erin Ryan.

[Alyssa Mastromonaco]

And I'm Alyssa Mastromonaco and we're the

[Erin Ryan]

hosts of Hysteria, the podcast for women who care about democracy, culture and not losing their minds in the process.

[Alyssa Mastromonaco]

We break down the news, call out the nonsense and spotlight the women actually fighting back on Capitol Hill in classrooms and everywhere. The stakes are high.

[Erin Ryan]

It's sharp, honest analysis featuring women's voices with humor and zero hand holding.

[Alyssa Mastromonaco]

Listen to Hysteria wherever you get your podcasts and watch full episodes on YouTube.

[Brandon]

Why is it always chaos when we link up?

[Chris]

Because nobody plans anything, bro. Good thing the rug's ready like that for real.

[Derek]

Rain, dirt, whatever available. All wheel drive, five modes. We still outside.

[Brandon]

And they got some kick too.

[Chris]

That turbo torque is crazy. The most in its class. It moves, moves.

[Derek]

Rogue doesn't mess around and peep the space merch on merch. Gear mics. All of it fits.

[Brandon]

Load up we out.

[Chris]

2026 Nissan Rogue built for all of it.

[Derek]

Auto Pacific segmentation 2026 Rogue vs latest in market competitors in the X SUV mainstream midsize class excluding electrical vehicles based on manufactured websites.

[Tommy Vietor]

Gina Hinojosa welcome to Pod Save America.

[Gina Hinojosa]

It's great to be with you.

[Jon Favreau]

So there's been plenty of national focus

[Tommy Vietor]

on the Texas Senate race between James Talarico and Ken Paxton. There's been less attention paid to the gubernatorial race that you're running against three term incumbent Greg Abbott, who's running for

[Jon Favreau]

a record fourth term as governor. We'll get to him in a minute, but for all the People listening who

[Tommy Vietor]

are meeting you for the first time. Who are you and what made you get into the race?

[Gina Hinojosa]

Yeah. So I am running for governor of Texas because what I see in 2026 is that everything is on the line. And this is perhaps our last best chance to save what we hold dear in Texas and in this country. And to explain. I grew up on the border with Mexico. I grew up in the Rio Grande Valley in Brownsville, Texas. And I was raised on the promise of the American dream there. We used to cross back and forth between Texas and Mexico all the time back then. And I remember as a little girl being struck by the extreme poverty I witnessed in Mexico. And I remember asking my dad, why? Why when we cross into Mexico, are there beggars? I said, beggars. We didn't have homelessness then. We didn't have a word for it. I said beggars. And then when we cross back into Texas, there are none. And I'll never forget my dad said, because in Mexico, they have the rich and then they have the poor, and they don't have much in between. And in America, we have a strong middle class. And he was talking about the American dream. And working Texans right now are struggling to achieve the American dream in a big way. It is why I'm running for office. It happened to me. I never meant to run for anything. I made my husband promise to never run for office before we got married, but they tried to shut down my son's school, so I ran for the school board. One that fight for schools took me to the Texas House. And what I see in the Texas House is the reason our schools are shutting down. The reason we are struggling so much is because we are paying into a system that is working against us. It is one big grift. It is policy that is driven by moneyed special interests. And I refer to it as the Greg Abbott corruption tax. We pay more, we get less because we are all paying the Greg Abbott corruption tax. And now we have over 100 schools shutting down in Texas. We have over 150 school districts operating at four days a week. Whole school districts because they can't afford to operate at five days a week. We have the most people being disconnected from their electricity of any other state. We have the most uninsured of any other state. We have the most uninsured children of any state. We have the most bankruptcies. We have the first major American city in Corpus Christi to potentially run out of water, despite the fact we are paying about 75% more in property taxes under Greg Abbott. That is Greg Abbott's record, and he owns it. And that's why I'm running. I have a plan to save Texas schools and to put money in your pocket. And I think it's important that people understand. Yes, we fight for our public schools because of our kids and our community, but we fight for public schools because there can be no American Dream without strong public schools, because public schools provide the opportunity, the gateway for the American dream. And, of course, if we can't afford to live and thrive in Texas, where we live, then there can be no American Dream. When I was a little girl, Texas was the American Dream manifest. Right. But that is why I'm running. We have to fight to win back the American dream.

[Tommy Vietor]

So you're no stranger to politics, even though you didn't think you would run. You've served in the Texas House, and I believe your father, who you mentioned, was chair of the Democratic Party in Texas for about a decade. What did you learn from him about politics and the state of the Democratic Party in Texas?

[Gina Hinojosa]

Yeah. Well, to be clear, the number one lesson I learned was that I did not want that life for myself.

[Tommy Vietor]

Interesting. How come?

[Gina Hinojosa]

Because my dad belonged to the world and not to me. And I wanted a quieter, simpler life. I'm a lawyer. I had a small practice. I thought that's what I would do. I would be the best at my small practice. And that is why I made my husband promise to never run for office. But life had other plans, so that's what I mostly learned. But I will tell you that it is in the Texas House where I have learned that really, there's so much noise, but there is one fight. And that fight is the fight of 2026 in this country, in this state. And it is, are we going to be a state that is by and for the people, or are we living in the billionaires world and we're just here? That is the fight. That is the fight that is behind why schools are closing. That is the fight behind why we can't afford to pay things. That's the fight behind why Corpus Christi is running out of water. That is the fight.

[Tommy Vietor]

Speaking of billionaires and money in politics, the man you're running against is sitting on more than $100 million. Recent poll had about a third of Texas voters saying they don't know enough about you to have an opinion. How do you introduce yourself to a state as big as Texas, especially when the governor, the current governor, has so much money to run his own ads and campaign?

[Gina Hinojosa]

Yeah, you're right. Texas is giant. Running for governor of Texas is like running for president. Right? We're doing things differently. We divided the state up into seven regions running like four full congressional campaigns in each of those regions because we are such a big and diverse state. What the polling shows is that since the end of last year, my name ID has gone up 20 points. We went from 9 points down to 5 points down as that's happened. And so as people get to know who I am, they're with me and people want change. What I am seeing across the state, what elections are showing in Texas, what polling is showing, is that there is this anti incumbency energy in Texas right now and Greg Abbott offers more of the same. And his problem, even though he has all that money in his campaign account is that you use money to tell people who you are and what you're about. And that's his problem. People know who he is and what he is about and they don't want it anymore. They want change. The number one response I get from people when I say I'm running for governor against Greg Abbott, he can run again. Like really? Don't we have term limits?

[Tommy Vietor]

Well, and I'm sure there's, there's plenty to say about him and his record. What is the one specific thing he's done that you would point to if a voter. Cause you'll probably need some of these voters, right? People who voted for Greg Abbott three times. Now you have a three time Abbott voter who's at least open to a different choice this time but isn't sure. What's the one thing you'd say about what Greg Abbott has done to persuade that person?

[Gina Hinojosa]

He's given a billion dollars in no bid contracts to his donors. He's the most corrupt governor in Texas history. We man, that's saying something. We've never had this level of corruption. But every major challenge in Texas is about follow the money right back to Greg Abbott's donors.

[Tommy Vietor]

So it's common for challengers to say the incumbent is corrupt. Worked for billionaires. Beto said a version of this about Abbott in 2022. Lupe Valdez said it in 2018. Both still lost by single to double digits. Why do you think this will land in 2026 where it hasn't worked as well before?

[Gina Hinojosa]

Well, what we are seeing is that it is already landing in Texas. And 2018 you referenced that was the closest we've come in a long time to potentially flipping a seat statewide in Texas. That's when Bethel ran against Ted Cruz. Right. That's the last time we had two

[Jon Favreau]

and a half points, right?

[Gina Hinojosa]

That's right.

[Jon Favreau]

Remember it.

[Gina Hinojosa]

That's the last time we had a midterm election with Trump in the White House.

[James Carville]

Right.

[Gina Hinojosa]

And Democrats swept. We picked up 12 seats in the Texas House. We flipped all of Harris County, Houston. So Democrats swept in a big way. We were not ready. Right. Maybe we could have flipped the whole Texas House had we been ready. We are ready in 2026. And so for the first time we have Democrats running in every congressional seat, every state house, state senate, se. And already we have seen dramatic improvement in our performance. So Democrats overperformed Republicans in the primary. That rarely happens in Texas. I had eight opponents in my primary and still I got twice as many votes as Beto got in 2018. Because people are doing the work for change. And 2018 is different because we have two strong candidates at the top of the ticket. Beto was pretty much the only one who could raise real money in 2018 and took on all the arrows, took on the entire campaign. It's different this time around. What we've yet to see though, the thing that is to be determined is are people going to believe what they see with their own eyes in Texas where we're winning Tarrant County. Tarrant county for instance, that was the most Republican county in the whole United States of America. We flipped a state Senate seat, swung it 31 points to elect Taylor Ramit. Steve Bannon embedded himself in Tarrant county the month before that happened and said right off the bat I'm here because as goes Tarrant county, so goes Texas, so goes the nation. Well, we won it. And it's not just Tarrant County. It happened in Cyfair, it happened in Arlington, it happened in Leander, it happened in Denton, Pearland. It is happening all over Texas. And what we are seeing in 2026 is people just want change.

[Tommy Vietor]

Education is a signature issue for you. You mentioned 100 plus schools are closing. 150 plus districts have gone to four day weeks. For someone outside Texas, what is actually happening to the public schools right now and what did Abbott do to cause it?

[Gina Hinojosa]

So what I see in the Texas House, I sit on the Public Education Committee with James Talrico. We co chaired the effort to fight vouchers in 2023 and we beat Greg Abbott. Then we had rural Republicans join with us to defend public schools and vote against vouchers. Greg Abbott took out those Republicans who voted with us in their primaries by putting a million dollars in against each of them in their primaries. And so then he got the votes and we passed it. Vouchers last year. Vouchers is an example of what has happened to our public schools in Texas. It is just vendor contract after vendor contract to somebody who is connected to Greg Abbott. And that is where our money for our public schools is going. So Greg Abbott received $12 million, the largest campaign contribution in all of Texas history, from an out of state billionaire, Jeff Yaz, who has a financial interest in vouchers. Right. That is the kind of grift and corruption that people are feeling in a real way. And so those alliances I made across the aisle with MAGA moms, with football coaches in rural communities, with superintendents, principals, people who love their public schools are angry in a big way at Greg Abbott for what he's done to our public schools. And I believe that that will be the difference in this election. People see this as our last best chance to save public schools in Texas.

[Tommy Vietor]

Education used to be an issue that Democrats talked about every campaign cycle all the time. I feel like in general, the party's been fairly quiet about it recently. I've heard you talk about it now. Rahm Emanuel has been talking about it recently. But in general, why do you think the Democratic party has sort of shied away from focusing on education and what do you see as a positive vision in public education, in education in general, for both Texas and the country to take?

[Gina Hinojosa]

We've just gotten lost in all of really a lot of high tech solutions to education that have not worked in Texas. It's happened in a big way. Now they're trying to push in Houston, Texas. Greg Abbott took over Houston ISD and trying to put in 100 AI schools in Houston with this idea that we don't need teachers, we need education guides, it's just a way for them to make money off of our public school dollars. I'm proposing a back to basics approach where we pay teachers their worth and it doesn't feel sexy. Right. Back to basics. Pay teachers their worth. Novel concept. It doesn't happen because nobody makes money off of it. But teachers. Right. Billionaires don't make money off of it. And I think in lots of ways Democrats have moved away from just the basics. Again, it's the American dream. How can you have the American dream without strong public schools? Public schools tell every child you can be anything you want to be if you put in the work. How are we letting it happen that our public schools, and it's not just Texas, but it's in Texas in a Big Big way are dying on the vine in Texas. There is a unique kind of pride. Texas public schools are Friday Night Lights. They are enshrined in our Texas constitution. They made us who we are. People have big pride in public schools in Texas and I think that is why it is resonating in a way that there is a possessiveness and an understanding that this is a part of who we are and people are ready to fight for their public schools.

[Tommy Vietor]

What do you do about low performing public schools and low performing teachers?

[Gina Hinojosa]

It's never the right answer to take power away from parents and community when our public schools are struggling. I do think we need a back to basics approach. Money in the classroom have the. We have had a teacher exodus in Texas. We have. For the first time, Texas is hiring more uncertified teachers than certified teachers by a lot. We now have teachers who have no college degree being hired in Texas. I have a neighboring school district. Their number one source of new hires is out of the country because they can't find people to work for what we pay, who have the experience. We all know it's again, not rocket science. The best thing we can do for a child's education is put a great teacher in the classroom. And we have steered so far away from what we know works. So again, it's a back to basics approach, making sure we have great educators and in the classroom.

[Tommy Vietor]

Looking at the polls, some of your strongest numbers are with Latino voters. Some polls have you up nearly 20 points. Trump, of course carry Latinas in Texas in 2024. You've said the Latino vote can be the difference if we choose to be. What does choose to be mean and what has the party gotten wrong over the last several years, decade? It's seeing sort of Latino voters either drift away from the Democratic Party or, you know, in the case of 2024, toward the Republican Party.

[Gina Hinojosa]

I think we have taken our eye off the prize of what are we fighting for Again, I think there is one fight. It is the fight about whether it is a country, a state that is by and for the people. That is the fight for the American dream. They are one in the same. And I think we get distracted by culture wars and social issues. We take the bait all the time. And I get it. I mean it is infuriating things that Republicans do and say to different groups that consist of our coalition. But when we're fighting about those things, we are not talking about the thing that impacts all of us and that is can you afford to live and thrive in Texas and that has to be the fight. So the Latino vote is hugely important to your point. You're right. Absolutely. In 2018, Beto got 64% of the Latino vote. Again, the closest we've come in a long, long time to winning as Democrats. When I get 64% of the Latino vote, I win because there are more of us in the voting population than there were then. To give you a sense of where Latinos are In Texas in 2026, Taylor Ramette, who flipped that state Senate seat, got 79% of the Latino vote in his election. That is the potential. Of course, we're taking nothing for granted. I am heavily focused on engaging the Latino vote in this election. And if we choose to be, as if Latinos will show up. We have seen this year that Latinos are showing up, and we need Latinos to show up in a big way in.

[Tommy Vietor]

I think one challenge Democrats have had over the last decade is sort of assuming that for Latino voters, immigration is the top issue when, as you said, the economy affordability is still number one, just as it is with non Latino voters. That said, Trump has decided to make immigration central to his second administration, even more than it was in the first. I think that personally, what I've seen from Democrats over the last decade is fear around the issue of immigration. And so when you ask Democrats about immigration, people either say, okay, we need a strong border, for sure, but what Trump's doing with ICE is horrific and wrong, and that's about as far as it goes.

[James Carville]

Yeah.

[Tommy Vietor]

At some point, we'll be in power again, hopefully. So hopefully you'll be governor. What is a positive vision for immigration that you think can rally the country behind the Democratic Party that recognizes, as my old boss, Barack Obama would always say, that we're a nation of laws and a nation of immigrants.

[Gina Hinojosa]

Right. I think we have to stress that we're for border security. We all want that. I grew up on the border. Of course I want border security. And what is happening right now is not that. And the district attorney in Harris county will say he has child sex abuse cases that he cannot prosecute because the witnesses have been detained or deported or too afraid to come forward. That makes us less safe, not more safe. And here's the other thing. The other thing is that it's hard to be generous to immigrants when Americans are struggling themselves so much. It is hard to be generous with the American dream when people feel like it's out of reach for themselves. Right. I think it's a classic example of the, you know, put your Oxygen mask on first and then help others in need. We have to recognize that Americans working, Americans working Texans are not making it. We need to make sure they get the oxygen mask first and that we message and we work to deliver for Americans first. Really for Texans first. That we're doing everything we can to address again, the one fight. The one fight. Is this going to be a country and a state for us or for moneyed interests?

[Tommy Vietor]

Do you think we need to revamp our asylum laws?

[Gina Hinojosa]

Sounds like it, yes.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Gina Hinojosa]

Yeah. And can I give you an example? So Biden's last, the December before his last year in office. Remember we had the caravans at the border. It was chaotic. People in Texas were angry. And I got a call. I was chair of the campaign committee for the Texas House at the time. I got a call from my member at Eagle Pass who is a frontline member. And he said, gina, they have shut down the border to Eagle Pass in Mexico. This was the week before Christmas. To all commerce. It is killing our local businesses. We are going to lose. And I said, okay, let me see what I can do. So I called the Biden administration and I said, we need an emergency meeting within 48 hours. We had their top border officials on the phone. I had my border members on the phone and Biden. The Biden officials heard an earful about how this is not working. Something needs to change that. Next week the Biden administration sent delegates over to negotiate enforcement on the Mexican side. And what you will see in the numbers is that crossings plummeted when that happened. We need, when it comes to immigration, like common sense solutions. I think that there is no question that Biden avoided the issue and did not deal with it until it was out of control. And we need to make sure that we have people in office who stop playing politics with immigration and just work on real solutions.

[Tommy Vietor]

I unfortunately have to ask you about the screwworm, which I had never heard

[Jon Favreau]

of until a week or so ago.

[Tommy Vietor]

For listeners, the New World Screwworm is a flesh eating parasite that infests livestock. It was eradicated from the US 60 years ago, but now it's back in Texas cattle for the first time. Two things. How bad is this for Texas?

[Jon Favreau]

And also the reporting is that all

[Tommy Vietor]

the cuts from Trump and Doge slowed the federal response. Has Abbott said one word criticizing the

[Jon Favreau]

administration that hamstrung him in Texas?

[Tommy Vietor]

And if not, what does that tell you?

[Gina Hinojosa]

Yeah, that Abbott is a weak governor. We have a governor who understood years ago that the screw worm was coming. It is in Texas now. It is going to be very hard to eradicate. It is spreading in Texas. Now that it is here, we're looking at disastrous consequences. And I don't think it's just for Texans, but yes, for Texas ranchers, for the price of beef that we have a governor who either didn't care enough or didn't have the sway, the juice with the administration and a secretary of agriculture from Texas under the administration to say, hey, I understand you're dojing. All this other stuff, save this. This is important and we need to make sure we're doing what we need to do is a failure on Abbott's part. I lay this on the lap of Abbott that he could not communicate with the Trump administration the urgency of making sure we had a solution before it was too late. And here we are now with screwworm in Texas and spreading.

[Jon Favreau]

So there are last question.

[Tommy Vietor]

There are just so many very important, very competitive House and Senate races this year that could decide control of Congress.

[Jon Favreau]

There are other gubernatorial races that at

[Tommy Vietor]

least on paper seem closer, more competitive even than yours. For people who are looking to donate their time and their money to midterm races this year, why should they choose yours?

[Gina Hinojosa]

Because the fate of the union depends on Texas. In 2026, after the U.S. supreme Court decision on redistricting that gutted the Voting Rights act, there are now no rules. And what will happen in Texas because Republican leaders have already said they're going to draw new lines next year. We lose five Democrats in Congress under a new map with no rules. That's on top of what the Brennan center predicts will happen at the end of the day, the decade through census, which is four years away, that Texas will gain four to five more congressional seats because we're growing faster than all the other states. We take from blue states, those congressional seats, if Republicans control that, that's another four to five seats that Democrats lose in Congress. That's 10 seats in Congress that Democrats that are off the table for Democrats. The governor of Texas controls 10% of Congress. We need a governor in Texas who will veto their rigged maps. This is the most important governor's race in the whole country. For that reason.

[Tommy Vietor]

Gina Inarosa, thank you so much for joining POD Save America.

[Jon Favreau]

Good luck out there.

[Tommy Vietor]

Everyone always says Democrats are dreaming of Texas again. Same thing as you said. At some point we have to win Texas because Congress, the maps, but also Electoral College.

[Erin Ryan]

That's right.

[Tommy Vietor]

Also, as the Midwestern states start getting a little redder, we gotta make up for it somewhere. Texas is just too big right well,

[Gina Hinojosa]

congressional seats equate to electoral votes, so. Right. If there's no way to win Congress, then there's no way to win the White House.

[Tommy Vietor]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

Well, thanks for what you're doing. Good luck out there.

[Tommy Vietor]

Thank you and talk to you soon.

[Gina Hinojosa]

Thanks.

[Jon Favreau]

That's our show for today. Thanks to Gina Hinojosa for coming on. Dan will be back in the feed on Sunday with a conversation with Strict Scrutiny's Leah Lipman. Have a good weekend.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Bye, everyone.

[Jon Favreau]

Positive America is a crooked media production. Our show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Rubin, McKenna Roberts and Farah Safari, with Reed Churlin, Elijah Cohn, and Adrian Hill. Our team includes Matt de Groat, Ben Hefcote, Jordan Kantor, Charlotte Landis, Carol Pel? Aviv, David Toles, Mia Kelman, Ryan Young, and Naomi Singel. Our staff is proudly unionized with the

[Tommy Vietor]

Writers Guild of America East.

[Gina Hinojosa]

Quick question.

[Alyssa Mastromonaco]

Are you politically engaged and spiritually exhausted

[Erin Ryan]

if you said yes to both? Welcome home. I'm Erin Ryan.

[Alyssa Mastromonaco]

And I'm Alyssa Mastromonaco.

[Erin Ryan]

And we're the hosts of Hysteria, the podcast for women who care about democracy, culture, and not losing their minds in the process.

[Alyssa Mastromonaco]

We break down the news, call out the nonsense, and spotlight the women actually fighting back on Capitol Hill, in classrooms and everywhere. The stakes are high.

[Erin Ryan]

It's sharp, honest analysis featuring women's voices with humor and zero hand holding.

[Alyssa Mastromonaco]

Listen to Hysteria wherever you get your podcasts and watch full episodes on YouTube.

[Brandon]

Why is it always chaos when we link up?

[Chris]

Because nobody plans anything, bro. Good thing the rug's ready like that for real.

[Derek]

Rain, dirt, whatever available. All wheel drive, five modes. We still outside.

[Brandon]

And they got some kick, too.

[Chris]

That turbo torque is crazy. The most in its class. It moves, moves.

[Derek]

Rogue doesn't mess around and peep the space merch on merch gear mics. All of it fits.

[Brandon]

Load up. We out.

[Chris]

2026 Nissan Rogue built for all of it.

[Derek]

Auto Pacific segmentation 2026 Rogue vs latest in market competitors in the X SUV mainstream midsize class, excluding electrical vehicles based on manufacturer websites.

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