Trump's Petro-Fascist Sugar Daddies

Summary

Pod Save America – Episode: "Trump's Petro-Fascist Sugar Daddies" (May 16, 2025)

Hosted by Jon Favreau, Dan Pfeiffer, and featuring a special guest appearance by Beto O'Rourke, this episode delves deep into the intricate web of Donald Trump's relationships with Middle Eastern autocrats, the latest developments surrounding his proposed tax legislation, and the ongoing constitutional challenges posed by his administration. Additionally, the episode features an insightful conversation with Beto O'Rourke about the political landscape in Texas and broader Democratic strategies.

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1. Trump’s Alliances with Middle Eastern Autocrats

The episode opens with a critical examination of President Donald Trump's continued flirtation with Middle Eastern dictatorships, particularly focusing on his relationships with Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Jon Favreau expresses concern over Trump's unabashed praise for these regimes despite their documented human rights abuses and funding of terrorist activities.

Notable Quotes:

• Jon Favreau [04:15]: “Saudi Arabia and the emir is fantastic. And we're going to another country in a little while. Uae. A fantastic man, fantastic leader.”
• Dan Pfeiffer [05:19]: “Trump just does not even have the pretense of pretending like we care about the things we've always cared about. What he celebrates, what he... He celebrates authoritarians.”

Discussion Highlights:

• Favreau criticizes Trump for showering autocrats with praise and benefits, undermining American values.
• Pfeiffer underscores Trump's transactional and kleptocratic tendencies, highlighting a preference for strength over democratic principles.

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2. Supreme Court’s Review of Trump’s Executive Order on Birthright Citizenship

The hosts discuss the Supreme Court’s recent oral arguments regarding Trump’s attempt to revoke birthright citizenship—an action directly contravening the 14th Amendment.

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Pfeiffer [43:16]: “What do states do with a newborn?... The federal officials will have to figure that out.”
• Beto O'Rourke [43:28]: “Is that how that's going to work? Again, we don't know.”

Discussion Highlights:

• The practicality and constitutional challenges of ending birthright citizenship are examined.
• Concerns are raised about the potential chaos and administrative hurdles if such an executive order were to be upheld.

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3. Republican Tax Legislation and Internal Divisions

A significant portion of the episode focuses on the contentious "big, beautiful bill" proposed by Republicans, which aims to provide substantial tax cuts to the wealthy while slashing essential social services.

Notable Quotes:

• Jon Favreau [26:38]: “The Donald Trump Jr. And Eric Trump Jr. Memorial Tax Act.”
• Dan Pfeiffer [28:25]: “The whole thing speaks to the utter incoherence of the Republican policy agenda in the era of Donald Trump.”

Discussion Highlights:

• Favreau vehemently criticizes the bill for favoring the ultra-wealthy, resulting in massive deficits and cuts to Medicaid and food assistance.
• Pfeiffer discusses the fractured nature of the Republican Party, highlighting the lack of a coherent policy agenda and the dominance of Trump-centric politics.
• The internal Republican conflict is explored, with some members threatening to derail the bill due to its fiscal irresponsibility.

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4. Democratic Strategy and the Corruption Message

The conversation shifts to the Democratic Party's struggle to effectively convey anti-corruption messages to voters. Dan Pfeiffer emphasizes the importance of Democrats adopting a robust reform agenda to regain credibility and position themselves as true outsiders challenging a corrupt system.

Notable Quotes:

• Dan Pfeiffer [18:28]: “We have to regain some of the reformer personality and credentials we had when Obama was president.”
• Jon Favreau [21:24]: “I totally agree with the need for a reform agenda... telling a story about Donald Trump as corrupt...”

Discussion Highlights:

• Pfeiffer critiques the Democratic Party for not prioritizing anti-corruption measures and maintaining ties with corporate interests.
• Favreau suggests that Democrats need to craft a compelling narrative around Trump’s corruption and their own commitment to transparency and reform.
• The hosts discuss the challenges of message testing in isolation versus within a broader, more cohesive narrative framework.

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5. Conversation with Beto O'Rourke: Texas Politics and Democratic Outreach

In a special segment, Beto O'Rourke shares his experiences and strategies in Texas politics, emphasizing grassroots organizing and the importance of meeting voters where they are.

Notable Quotes:

• Beto O'Rourke [52:03]: “We're registering likely Democrats where we can find them, typically on college campuses... we become these voting sherpas for people in Texas.”
• O'Rourke [57:17]: “There's no Democrat on the ballot making the other side of the party on issues that we should absolutely fucking own every single day.”

Discussion Highlights:

• O'Rourke outlines the "Powered by People" initiative, focusing on voter registration and education in Texas's challenging political environment.
• He recounts personal interactions with constituents facing the impacts of Trump’s policies, such as food assistance cuts and school funding reductions.
• The conversation highlights the need for Democrats to expand their presence beyond traditional battleground states and engage deeply in states like Texas.

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6. Supreme Court Decision and Its Implications

Returning to the Supreme Court topic, the hosts speculate on potential outcomes and their broader implications for executive power and judicial intervention.

Notable Quotes:

• Jon Favreau [46:08]: “You're trying to balance out the threat of a rogue president with the threat of a rogue judge.”
• Dan Pfeiffer [47:27]: “There are issues of imminent concern that have to be addressed right away...”

Discussion Highlights:

• The balance between presidential authority and judicial oversight is scrutinized.
• Concerns are raised about the feasibility and consequences of nationwide injunctions, regardless of political affiliation.

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7. Conclusion: Democratic Urgency and the Path Forward

The episode concludes with a rallying call for Democrats to intensify their efforts in fighting corruption, engaging voters, and rebuilding their party’s credibility.

Notable Quotes:

• Beto O'Rourke [76:38]: “We have to do everything we can right now in this moment. We can move him and we can move the politics of this country, but it's going to take everybody doing everything they can.”
• Jon Favreau [81:23]: “The Democratic Party to step up. And, and this is where we're completely failing the country right now.”

Discussion Highlights:

• O'Rourke emphasizes the critical need for Democrats to connect with voters on a personal level, listen to their concerns, and present authentic solutions.
• The importance of storytelling and genuine engagement over scripted messages is highlighted as a strategy to resonate with a broader electorate.
• Favreau and Pfeiffer reiterate the urgency for Democrats to adopt a more proactive and reform-oriented approach to regain political power and uphold democratic values.

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Key Takeaways

• Trump’s Corruption and Autocratic Tendencies: Trump's favoritism towards Middle Eastern dictators undermines American democratic values and fosters a transactional political environment.

• Tax Legislation Crisis: Republican internal divisions and the proposed tax cuts for the wealthy spotlight the party's lack of coherent policy direction, potentially exacerbating national deficits and social inequities.

• Democratic Strategy Needs Overhaul: To effectively combat Trump and restore integrity, Democrats must adopt a robust anti-corruption agenda, enhance grassroots engagement, and craft compelling narratives that resonate with diverse voter bases.

• Supreme Court’s Pivotal Role: The court’s decisions on executive orders and nationwide injunctions will have profound implications for the balance of power between the presidency and the judiciary.

• Grassroots Mobilization in Texas: Beto O'Rourke’s experiences underscore the necessity of on-the-ground organizing and authentic voter engagement in pivotal but often overlooked states.

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This episode of Pod Save America offers a comprehensive analysis of the current political turmoil, highlighting the intersections of corruption, policy failures, and the urgent need for strategic reform within the Democratic Party to counteract the challenges posed by Donald Trump's administration.

Transcript

[Jon Favreau]

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[Jon Favreau]

Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

[Jon Favreau]

On today's show, we'll talk about Trump's love affair with Middle Eastern autocrats. We'll cover the latest with his big, beautiful bill, which is getting worse by the day and turning into a bit of a clusterfuck for Republicans. The Supreme Court also heard oral arguments Thursday over Trump's attempt to end the constitutional right to citizenship for people born in America. We'll dive into how the justices reacted and then later you'll hear my conversation with our pal Beto o' Rourke, who stopped by the studio here in Los Angeles to talk about Texas politics, the Democratic Party, Donald Trump, Joe Biden and lots more. It's great to see Beto.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That's awesome.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. He's given a commencement at USC Law School tomorrow, so he stopped by here to say hi, which is great. But first, the president is still fluffing Arab dictators for cash and bribes. Just wrapping up a tour of the Gulf states that blended jaw dropping corruption with the side of foreign policy. Trump not only declined to address the fact that his petro fascist sugar daddies in Saudi Arabia and Qatar have funded terrorist groups, murdered journalists, and brutally repressed women and gays, he showered them with the kind of praise he rarely gives anyone but himself. Let's listen.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Like the crown prince a lot. I've known him a long time in.

[Jon Favreau]

Saudi Arabia and the emir is fantastic. And we're going to another country in a little while. Uae. A fantastic man, fantastic leader. We are going to protect this country. It is a very special place with a special royal family. And they're going to be protected by the United States of America. I do. I like them a lot. I like them too much. That's why we give so much, you know? Too much.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I like you too much.

[Jon Favreau]

As a construction person.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'm seeing perfect marble.

[Jon Favreau]

This is what they call perfecto.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

What they call perfecto.

[Jon Favreau]

He likes mbs, the guy who ordered journalists murdered with the bone saw. Jamal Khashoggi. He likes him too much, Dan. Too much.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's kind of getting steamy in there.

[Jon Favreau]

Little awkward, little Awkward. How inspired are you by Trump's loyalty to American values, liberal values, around the world?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It's like everyone has a type, right? And Trump's type is very clearly hereditary monarchs with large reserves of cash willing to give him planes, golf courses, and crypto deals. So he is in his element right now. I mean, it's obviously disgusting and funny in a weird, gross, sad, gallows humor sort of way, but if you kind of, like, step back, and we talked about this a little bit after the incident with Zelenskyy in the Oval Office, the hugging of dictators, JD Vance's speech at the beginning of the administration of the Munich Security Conference, wherever he was when he did that. But it is just worth recognizing that, like, we are now the bad guys, that the things we always. The United States always had a set of values that we stood for, that we push for, and we were not perfect in those. Like, Barack Obama went to Saudi Arabia. He wasn't. You know, Bill Clinton did, everyone else did. But Trump just, like, does not even have the pretense of pretending like we care about the things we've always cared about. What he celebrates, what he. He celebrates authoritarians. He sees weakness in democracy, and that is a very disturbing place for the.

[Jon Favreau]

American president to be, especially wealthy autocrats who can shower him with not just praise, but planes, money, business deals for his family. I mean, you know, maybe Brussels should have given Donald Trump a new jet and, you know, we'd have better relations with the European Union. Maybe the Canadians should have. Should have thrown in some Trump towers and Trump golf courses, and he wouldn't be threatening to annex them as the 51st state. You know, this is how he operates. You give him praise, you give him money, you give him gifts, and he's gonna treat you and your country well. He's going to make sure that the policy of the United States is favorable to your government, so long as you take care of Trump.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Like, he is obviously a transactional kleptocrat like that. That is very true, but he does. There is just, like, this certain level of respect and admiration he has for true dictators that he does not. Even if. Even if Mark Carney gave him a whole bunch of free stuff, he would never view someone subject to the will of the people as impressive as someone who has crushed the will of the people.

[Jon Favreau]

Yes, that's why Kim Jong Un, he praises Duterte in the Philippines, Bolsonaro, Putin, like, just name your autocrat. So hanging over all this, of course, is the issue of the jet, which is such an obvious grift that more MAGA types are breaking with Trump on it. We talked about Laura Loomer on Tuesday's pod. She is now the conscience of maga. But there has also been criticism from your Ben Shapiro's, your Mark Levins, your Eric Erickson's. There's also a growing number of Republicans in Congress who are saying they want to look into the details before letting this deal happen. Unclear what that entails.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes. What details do they want to know about?

[Jon Favreau]

You know, you're like, oh, this person's on the Armed Services Committee. I'm like, okay, so what is it? Is it legislation that's going to come up before them? Are they going to block a funding bill because of the jet? We'll see. But none of that criticism is stopping the most committed cult members from doing their thing. Listen, Mr. Speaker, you are very critical.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Of President Biden and his family's foreign business dealings. You supported an impeachment, impeachment inquiry as.

[Beto O'Rourke]

A result of it.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Are you equally concerned about President Trump's family's business dealings?

[Jon Favreau]

The reason many people refer to the Bidens as the Biden crime family is.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Because they were doing all this stuff behind curtains, but in the back rooms, they were trying to conceal it and.

[Beto O'Rourke]

They repeatedly lied about it.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Whatever President Trump is doing is out in the open. They're not trying to conceal anything. But, Mr. Speaker, the investment in the Meme coin.

[Jon Favreau]

I don't know anything about the Meme Coin thing. I don't know.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I can just tell you that. I mean, President Trump has had nothing to hide. He's very upfront about it and zero issue with it.

[Jon Favreau]

Zero issue with it.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Do you think it raises ethics concerns.

[Jon Favreau]

Or national security concerns here?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Been to New York, saw the Statue of Liberty.

[Jon Favreau]

That was a gift, too.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

He's going to take the plane and then you guys are going to do.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Nothing about it, and the press is.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Going to ride on it.

[Beto O'Rourke]

And then if you win in the midterms, you. You're gonna impeach him. So what?

[Jon Favreau]

I mean, maybe the most honest answer there from our pal Jesse Waters.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Your pal Jesse Waters, my pal Jesse.

[Jon Favreau]

Waters, my good friend Jesse Waters. Before that, that was Oklahoma Senator Mark Wayne Mullen making the apt comparison to the gift we received from France above the Statue of Liberty, which, of course, after receiving the gift and after leaving office, Grover Cleveland just flew it all around the world.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yes. Yes. A personal gift.

[Jon Favreau]

Personal gift.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

People now visited in Grover Cleveland's ancestral home. Yes. That's how you see Statue of Liberty.

[Jon Favreau]

People don't know this about the Statue of Liberty, but it actually belongs to the Grover Cleveland Presidential Assembly. Yes.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

When you pay to take the tour, that money goes directly into Grover Cleveland's pocket.

[Jon Favreau]

His dead pocket. Yes. Which way do you think the party ends up on this one, Dan?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Kind of feel like Jesse Waters nailed it. This is exactly where it's going to be. A few people will express some mild concerns, but in the end, these people are not going to break with Donald Trump over a free plane. Like that's. I don't. And if they did, what would happen? He still gets to take the plane. There's nothing they can do.

[Jon Favreau]

There are Donald Trump scandals and crises that Republicans are just willing to defend from the jump. There's a small sliver of Donald Trump scandals like this one that they're not willing to defend from the jump. But all of them are willing to just wait it out knowing that the. Our memories are almost that every day is memento for the American people. We just wake up forgetting anything that happened. Nevermind the last year, two years, basically in the last news cycle. And if you just wait long enough, it's gonna sound ridiculous to bring up the jet three months from now when there's so much other business to go on. We're just looking forward. We're just doing other stuff now.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I have a lot of things to say here, but my first question is what percentage of our listeners do you think recall 20 year old Phil Memento?

[Jon Favreau]

How about, I guess 50 first dates is also in that category. I guess that's Groundhog Day.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

There are a lot of. I mean Chris Nolan has really. He's come a long way since that small film in the early 2000s.

[Jon Favreau]

But yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Anyway, remember Sammy Jankis? It's usually a way to think about politics. Isn't that what he had tattooed on his head on his mirror or whatever it was?

[Jon Favreau]

Yes. Wow. See, I don't even remember that. I love the movie anyway. Yeah, you had other.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

My other thing is Mike Johnson's response is insane. His logic, like he's not. Does not seem to be a super sharp guy or like a deep. He's not a deep thinker, I think is what I would take away from Mike Johnson's brief time on the public stage. But his logic is that Joe Biden's crimes, which there's no evidence of to be very clear that Joe Biden's. Because Joe Biden tried to conceal his fake crimes, that's bad. But because Donald Trump commits his crimes in public, that's okay.

[Jon Favreau]

I mean they are. You know, look, between Jesse Watters and Mike Johnson there, they're coalescing around an argument that corruption is a virtue for this president and for America. This is a new America now. Right. You know, you can storm the Capitol, you can try to steal an election, you can lock people up without due process, and you can slap a bunch of tariffs on people because you want to run world trade, because you want everyone to come to you and make some deals, you can accept planes. And as long as it's out in the open, what are you going to do about it? Democrats. Oh, you going to impeach them? Then? What's going to happen?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, that's.

[Jon Favreau]

I mean, this is like they are making the argument for a system that is very much not democracy. They're not just saying that. Oh, no, no, no. This is a democracy. They're just like, no, no, no. This whole system where there's laws and due process and ethics for people in power and. No, forget that. This is much better.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

What they're actually doing is they're pointing out the massive loopholes in our democracy that Trump is exploiting. Which is correct. Trump can commit these crimes and. And Democrats could impeach him, but because of who the Republican Party is and the high threshold for conviction, there's nothing he can do for which he would be convicted. At the end of the day, the only thing that keeps the system truly working as it was intended is if you have a president with some modicum of shame, some sense of patriotism or duty. Because Trump has none of those things. He can just run right through the giant loopholes in the middle of our democracy.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah, The Supreme Court and the Republican Congress has given him immunity. And that just leaves the voters to vote out Republicans and MAGA Republicans, particularly from now until I don't know when, 26, 28 and beyond, till we get.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Them all out of office, till the 50th anniversary of Memento. Sorry. I'm very punchy today.

[Jon Favreau]

And Pod Save America.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I'm sure we'll still be doing this.

[Jon Favreau]

We'll still be doing it. Yeah. Right. You see that? Kristi Noem wants a new jet too, by the way. She wants a Washington Post. Says the DHS is gonna use $50 million from the coast Guard budget to get her a brand spanking new Gulfstream 5 to help her fly between those photo ops in Seacot and wherever else we're sending people in style.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Look, if you have to be doing cosplay at an ICE raid in la, and then you have to be in El Salvador for torture porn the next morning. You're not going to get their commercial. So you need a private jet for that. So it makes complete sense.

[Jon Favreau]

You think you're going to fly fucking coach? Yeah.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Like, come on now.

[Jon Favreau]

Not Kristi, Noem, not in your fatigues.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That you just how hard it is to get that prop assault rifle in the overhead compartment. No, of course not.

[Jon Favreau]

Fatigues. Someone's going to. She could do hair and makeup on the way.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

You need the glam squad.

[Jon Favreau]

A lot happens the. Yeah, she's got to get some like a machine gun. There a lot going on. You can't take that through tsa.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Everyone's going to want a free plane now.

[Jon Favreau]

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[Dan Pfeiffer]

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[Jon Favreau]

All right. Unfortunately, Axios did feel the need to rain on our parade this week by reporting that the corruption message isn't yet breaking through with key voters, according to some focus groups conducted by Polar Coaster guest Molly Murphy, a Democratic pollster at Impact Research. The gist is that while generic politicians are vulnerable to corruption critiques, Trump still has some quote, inoculation on the issue because of quote Doge and his long standing anti DC rhetoric. The voters in the group also view Democrats as weak. What was your takeaway from that piece and those findings?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

It seems pretty consistent with other research now, and I've not read the whole memo, but it seems consistent with other research I've seen and research we saw in 2020 in the run up to the general election when one of the findings from a lot of the from the Democratic National Committee actually was that the corruption message was not our most effective attack on Trump. And in some ways that's about Trump in the sense that he's this rich guy. People think maybe he can't be bought or he's so corrupt they're willing to like accept a level of corruption with him that they may not with other politicians. And some people will read this, focus this memo and other similar research and say, well, that means we should not talk about corruption. And I think that's a huge mistake. I think that is sort of one dimensional thinking. It is checkers, not chess. Because ultimately the reason why we have to make this case is because the politics is no longer operates on the left right access. We talked about this before. It operates on the insider outsider access. They change status quo access, change status quo access. And the problem for Democrats is we are still seen as the defenders of the broken status quo even with Trump in office. Which is why as Trump's numbers go down, ours don't go up. And so we have to do something to make ourselves be credible agents of change. And one way to do that is to run against corruption now if we want to be credible messengers for corruption. Because I actually think what this memo and others show is not the it says more about the messenger than the message itself and that we are not seen as strong enough to Stand up. And we're not seen as outsiders or reformer enough to be credible messengers on corruption. And that is a very fair critique of our party. When Biden was in office, we did nothing, we did very little on corruption. We defended instead of banning members of Congress trading stocks. We're not unable to do a lot on dark money in politics because the voting rights bill collapsed or all of those things. And we should be. I think one of the things the Democratic Party should do is have a reform agenda, starting with banning members of Congress from trading stocks, but a whole host of other things that gets right at the corruption and influence happening in Trump's administration. And this is the path we used back in 2006. But I think we absolutely have to do this because if we don't, if all we do is just vomit up like anti inflation tariff talking points for the next two years, we may do fine in this next election. But that's not gonna be because our message was great, just because we just happen to be the other guy when people are pissed at the people, at the incumbents. But if we want to strengthen the brand of the party to the point where we can actually build the governing majority, we have to regain some of the reformer personality and credentials we had when Obama was president. One simple thing the party could do, stop taking PAC and lobbyist money, corporate PAC and lobbyist money. Just stop doing that right now. That was the policy of the party from the day Barack Obama became the nominee until he left office. And we have backslid on that in very bad ways.

[Jon Favreau]

I totally agree with the need for a reform agenda. I also am, I think we gotta stop testing messages in complete isolation here and not as part of a larger story. I think if you showed people clips of Trump talking about why he deserves the plane, along with clips where he's like, you don't need that many dolls, you don't need that many pencils, and inflation's great, everything's down, gas prices down, everything's wonderful. I think telling a story about Donald Trump as corrupt, which I agree, most people know he's corrupt or assume he's corrupt because most people think most politicians are corrupt. But talking about his corruption in the context of how out of touch he is with the concerns of the people he said he was going to fight for, I think is much more damning. And I think you want to tell a story about a bunch of people who are running the government to enrich themselves while everyone else gets fucked over. And like people have to, as sad as it is, I Think some people are willing to let it fly, that some government officials are gonna get rich based on their positions, so long as they're also doing work to help people, you know, afford their, afford their groceries. And if they don't see that. So I do agree with you. Like if, if it's just tariffs or it's just reform, like, I don't think just spitting out a list of messages that test well is gonna work. I think you have to tell a story about Donald Trump and then like you said, Democrats have to tell a story about like what they would do differently, not just on economic policy, but also on making sure that government's not corrupt.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The story. I always wrestle with the story thing. Cause yes, you need a story obviously like that. It's the core of what we've always believed in politics. Communicating that story is just so fucking hard right now, right? Like just to have the space now if you are. It's hard to do in the opposition. If you are the nominee in a race and you have the combination of the press attention you get, the social following you have and the paid advertising, like together you can do it. But it's like Democrats telling that story right now. It's like a hard thing to break through. To tell something holistically, right. Like it is hard. I'm not saying, I'm not arguing against it. I'm just saying like that I just stipulate that it's a real challenge.

[Jon Favreau]

I think it's a challenge for some of these Democrats. But like I don't know how hard it is to like go out and give us. You don't even have to give a long speech. You can do like a two minute video on the. God, I just think that we are, that it's. People are so caught up in what is the corruption message and what's the right line that tests well and talk about what's happening. Just talk about what's happening and how fucked up it is.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah, yeah. I guess I'm getting at the point that telling the story is possible. Getting people to hear the story is harder than it's ever been.

[Jon Favreau]

That is true.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

This is just a side note. As I said on Punchy today, related to your you should give a speech. Is that sitting in my message box drafts folder for like three months now is my take that politicians should stop giving speeches.

[Jon Favreau]

Just damn you.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I mean you're out of the. You stop writing them. Why do these people keep giving them.

[Jon Favreau]

I still think there's a place for speeches because I think there's A place for storytelling. Because I think storytelling works better than anything.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

If I ever finish this thing, then you and I. Well, you know what we'll do? We'll debate it on the podcast.

[Jon Favreau]

Great. Yes, perfect. All right, well, I look forward to it. So, yeah, I do think Trump's orgy of corruption might look even worse to all the voters he's about to fuck over with his big beautiful tax cut for the rich, which will cause millions of people to lose their health care while somehow still adding trillions of dollars to the deficit. Here's where things stand on the bill and the House right now. We are of course recording this Thursday afternoon. We got Medicaid cuts that will lead to at least 8 million people losing their coverage. Millions of others who will pay a lot more for their health care. Higher co pays, work requirements for people who are either already working or people who have disabilities or caring for children or students so they can't work. They've also included a massive cut to food assistance that gives low income Americans, mostly children, about six bucks a day so they don't go hungry. That's where they decided to get $300 million of savings from that they wanted to fund Planned Parenthood and repeal most of the clean energy tax credits that Biden passed. And all of this is so that people making over $1 million can get an average tax cut of $90,000. So that business owners who make over $10 million a year can take a million dollar tax deduction on average. And so that wealthy couples worth over $30 million can pass on a tax free inheritance. Because if you can't give your kids 40 million dollar inheritance without some taxes on it, what are you even doing? Why are you giving them anything? Isn't this America? You should be able to. 35 million, 40 million, 45 million. You should pass on that to your kids tax free, no taxes on it. Because those kids deserve as much money as they could possibly have. $40 million tax free. Unfucking real.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The Donald Trump Jr. And Eric Trump Jr. Memorial Tax Act.

[Jon Favreau]

And the size of these tax cuts and just how they're showering the just ultra mega rich with more money is partly why even with all those cuts to people's health care, to food assistance, to everything else, the bill is still gonna add a few trillion dollars to the deficit. And perversely, that's why some Republicans in Congress are threatening to tank the bill because it is adding too much to the deficit, cuz it's not cutting enough. So that's what's happening right now it's disgusting, it's infuriating. It's also somehow not extreme enough for these Republicans. The last I checked, Mike Johnson had a big meeting today with the warring factions of the Republican Congress. You had the hardliners who, it's not going far enough, the moderates who already have already taken some votes that people in their districts might not be so happy about. You have the salt caucus. I don't even know if we want to get into salt.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The salties.

[Jon Favreau]

The salties. That's what they called these are the people very concerned about the state and local deduction for their taxes, which Trump put a cap on. And now they want to remove the cap because it hits people in blue states the hardest. But of course, the people in the salty caucus for Republicans are the Republican House members who do represent blue states. There may be another warring factor that I can't think of right now, but apparently people left the meeting and they were members were texting Jake Sherman, we're fucked. Right? I think they said we're cooked, we're cooked. And they might delay the vote now, but you know, by the time you're hearing this Friday morning or Friday afternoon, it could all change. So I'm just telling you where we are right now. Dan, what do you think about the politics driving this negotiation right now?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

I mean, it is. The whole thing speaks to the utter incoherence of the Republican policy agenda in the era of Donald Trump. Like there is not a consistent view, like under, I'm going to oversimplify here, but under Reagan, there was a simple principle to support. Reagan was to agree to lower taxes, smaller government and a bunch of other stuff. But that was the economic principles that extended for a long time. Then you get to the Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan Republicans and we are going to cut Social Security, Medicare and gut Medicaid. That was our principle. They don't really stand for anything right now. It's sort of a very dissonant, incoherent group of coalition really coming together. And so you have these super far right, essentially Tea Partiers, the Freedom Caucus, who want no government. If a Democrat was president, they would want to burst through the debt ceiling default. They're not, they're nihilists. And then you have a group of sort of Republican leadership, corporate types who want as big a tax cuts as possible for the rich. Like that is. That is where they are. It's sort of the corporatist wings. And then you have people with very specific political concerns worried about losing their own seats. Right. And so all of these things, they're not all rowing in the same way. This is not. And sometimes you'd be in a situation like we were trying to pass the Affordable Care Act. The general view was everyone in the Democratic Party believed in some form of universal health care. We had disagreements about how we got there, but the priority was shared here. There is no agreement about what we're trying to accomplish. Are we trying to cut taxes? Yes, we're trying to cut tax. Primarily for rich people or working class people? Rich people probably, but some people feel differently. Is our goal to cut Medicaid or not cut Medicaid? Are we trying to reduce the deficit or only increase it by $2 trillion so we can give the tax cuts to the rich? When the entire organizing principle of the party is one man's personality, it makes legislating on big policy agenda very hard, especially when that man has no coherent policy views because there's no shared set of principles that you're going for.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. How would you compare that to the way that build back better on the Democratic side?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Well, build back better, like all these legislative processes are messy. The Democrat, the Obamacare process was incredibly messy. The challenge for the build back better process was two people, right. It was 10% of the Senate caucus.

[Jon Favreau]

And I do think it was. I think what's happening just with polarization in general and the fact that no one can pass anything with the filibuster anymore. And so everyone needs to pass these. You get basically Democratic administrations get one reconciliation bill to jam all their priorities in. And with the Democrats, you know, it had been built up over four years that like, we had a lot of different priorities. And I guess I would argue that having so many priorities is one of the reasons it was. It was such a long, drawn out process on build back better because it's like when Joe Manchin said, oh, you have to cut some spending. Do you want to cut it from the child care tax credit? Do you want to do climate? Do you want to do this? Do you want to, you know, and they ended up with prioritizing climate and, you know, drug prices and infrastructure, I guess.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

But I think if we, if you hadn't had Joe Manchin, you would have got. You could have gotten the bill done six months earlier, eight months earlier.

[Jon Favreau]

Exactly.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

But. But you hear the bigger point here is Congress can't really function unless they use the budget reconciliation process, which adds a whole bunch of complications to how you do things. It was harder for Democrats because we were trying to fit a lot of things that were not specific. But you're assuming taxes and entitlement cuts or Medicaid cuts, whatever else like that is very much in the original framework of what a bunch of reconciliation is. Once you're starting to do climate things, I mean, it's permissible and it's fine. It's just a little more complicated because of a set of pretty esoteric Senate rules.

[Jon Favreau]

So you mentioned the members, the Republican members who are concerned about their political careers and the races that they have to run in 2026. A lot of those Republicans have already taken votes to deeply cut Medicaid. And I think it would be good if people kept up the pressure on these members. These are people like Marionette, Miller Meeks from Iowa City, who won by less than 1,000 votes last year, Gabe Evans from the Denver suburbs, who won by just more than 2,000 votes. There's plenty of other members like that who are sitting in seats where they only won by a couple thousand votes, either there in districts where Kamala Harris won or districts that Trump won by not that much. And so, you know, if you want to call if you're in these districts or you want to put pressure on these folks, you can head to votesaveamerica.com and they'll make it really easy for you. Anything else you think people can do, Dan?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. I mean, ultimately, the goal here is to convince not just these individual members but the Republican leadership and Trump that the bill is currently constructed is akin to handing a majority to Hakeem Jeffries. And so they have to feel the political pressure. And to do that, you have to make your voice heard. And there are a few ways to do that. And I know some of these sound kind of trite in this sort of era of cynicism we're in. But calling a member of Congress, especially if you were in that district, matters because at the you and I have worked on the Hill. The end of every week, the member, the senior staff, the chief of staff, they get a list of they get a report on call and email traffic, how many calls they got, how much more it is than usual, what it was about and what the sentiment was. So if you blow up their phones, it is the best way to have them know that people are upset about this, even if they think it's not their core base or it's a bunch of Democrats. It's just it tells them, like these members are not doing polling right now. The only way they get to see what public opinion is is through that call report. So call second thing is go to protests, right? Go to if go to protests. If there's a town hall, your members, Republican members, crazy enough to have a town hall, go to that one. If they are not having town halls and they're like Tim Walls or you know, Ro Khanna or Bernie Benno or if they're Democrats coming here, it's Chris Murphy, Maxwell Frost, all these people, if they're coming to your to your to a district to do it, go to their tunnel, let people see that. And then the other thing and I wrote a message box a few days ago about this where to listing all these different things you can do. But one of the most important ones is we say this all the time. I say this all the time is talk to the people in your life about it. Most people have no idea, not a clue that the Republicans in Congress want to kick people off of health care to pay for a tax cut for rich people. And they're only going to know that if you tell them. And I included in this message box newsletter from Tuesday a very handy communications guide that I got from our friends at Navigator Research about how to talk about it in a way that's most persuasive based on all the research. So if you want to check that out, you can go check out one of my latest Mr. Box newsletters about this.

[Jon Favreau]

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[Beto O'Rourke]

This podcast is supported by Comedy Central's the Daily Show. When major headlines are coming fast and.

[Jon Favreau]

Furious from every direction, it's impossible to know which way to turn. Look to Jon Stewart and the Daily.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Show news team every weeknight to keep.

[Jon Favreau]

The news on the straight and narrow.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

No matter how twisted it all seems to get.

[Jon Favreau]

The Daily show new weeknights at 11:10.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Central on Comedy Central and next day on Paramount.

[Jon Favreau]

Plus, I don't know if you saw the Washington Post piece, this is on the on the tariff issue. I did that, that one of the reasons that apparently Trump backed off a little bit on the tariffs is that Susie Wiles is chief of staff and Scott Bessant, the Treasury secretary, told him that it was going to really hit the Trump base hard. The working class, blue collar Trump base is going to get hurt, is getting hurt by these tariffs. And then we saw the news today that even though Trump has backed off a little, maybe not enough because Walmart, the Walmart CEO got on an earnings call Thursday and said that they're probably going to raise prices because of what the tariffs have done already. What did you make of that Post story?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Wait till Donald Trump finds out who's on Medicaid.

[Jon Favreau]

I know Osro, that was my first.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Thought when he finds I know in the public imagination dating back years and years, decades. The idea is it's a bunch of people of color in urban areas, right. This is basically, this is the equivalent of Ronald Reagan's welfare queen racist bullshit. But the reality is it's a quarter of Americans are on it and it is working class American spread across the country. And a lot in rural areas like these are a lot of Trump voters are going to lose their health care or have to pay more or not be able to. Their kids will get kicked off health care. People will not be able to pay for long term care in nursing homes if this happens. Secondly, it's also, this is good. This is kind of like what we talked about at the beginning about Trump's, you know, how like the dangerous sort of cruelty of Trump's rhetoric, we sort of sort of gets dumbed down because we're kind of so used to it. Now, once again, here's the President of all of the United States who only cares about people who vote for him. Right. This is the same logic he's used in granting disaster assistance. That is unprecedented. Well, I guess maybe with the possible exception of Richard Nixon throughout our history, President's Republican and Democrat. The idea is you're president of all people. When Americans need you, whether they voted for you or your opponent, you help them. And to only make policy decisions based on people that you perceive to be your political supporters while everyone else can just rot in hell is disgusting and unprecedented. And it's very easy for this stuff to get normalized. But it's worth, I think as his story did a good job of doing, is pointing out the danger of that approach to governing.

[Jon Favreau]

I also think there's a good chance that all the people around Donald Trump are telling him, oh no, we're not gonna, people aren't gonna lose their health insurance cause of what we're doing in Medicare. We're just doing some work requirements and making sure that there's no fraud and abuse.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

MAGA voters work. All of them work.

[Jon Favreau]

Right? Yeah. This is crazy.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The 47% are on the other side.

[Jon Favreau]

This is just Democrats and the commie cbo, the radical Marxist CBO just lying about all this.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Don't forget, woke Walmart there.

[Jon Favreau]

Right? Walmart. Right. Which is why I do think like, you know, then you've got some parts of some wing of the party now, the so called populist wing of the party, you know, the Josh Hawleys and even the Steve Bannons and those kind of people who are like, no, no, no, we just shouldn't cut Medicaid and this is cutting Medicaid. I think those, lifting those voices up is important just at least on this issue. And then just making a lot of noise that this is going to lead to a lot of people losing their healthcare so that it is loud enough that it gets through to Republicans and maybe to Trump. And you know, they, they pare it back because it's gonna be, I mean the CBO, I think when they tried to, when Trump in 2017 tried to repeal the Affordable Care Act, I think they said like 17 million people would lose their health insurance. This is like, you know, you have the 9 million for Medicaid, 8.6 million for Medicaid, and then you have another 4 or 5 million because they don't want to renew the subsidies that people get to help buy insurance on the exchanges for the Affordable Care Act. You also have a bunch of other people who are on Medicare and Medicaid and might lose Medicaid, even though Medicaid fills in gaps in Medicare insurance for low income seniors. And those people won't be counted as losing their health care, but they may lose their health care because it's really important that they have Medicaid fill in those gaps. So it's just, it's like a ton of pain that could follow from this. And the bill probably will get worse if they, if they end up passing it because they're already saying, like, the work requirements wouldn't kick in until 2029 or something. And I think Steve Scalise was like, oh, no, no, we're gonna rewrite the bill so that they're earlier to try to get some of the hardliners on board. So as they try to get these hardliners to vote yes, the bill's only gonna get worse and hurt more people.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

That is the history of Republican legislation in the last decade, really is more than the last decade, two decades. It always moves right, it never moves left to get passage at all. The moderates are forced to fold to appease the hardliners, and that's what will happen here.

[Jon Favreau]

Last thing on the agenda here. Big case before the Supreme Court. On Thursday. The justices heard oral arguments on two really big intertwined questions. The first is whether Donald Trump's Day One executive order attempting to end birthright citizenship is constitutional. And the second, stemming from the circumstances around that, is whether federal judges below the Supreme Court can issue nationwide injunctions. That is whether a single federal judge can freeze a given policy from the administration across the country, which is what happened after the birthright citizenship EO was signed. It would be pretty surprising if the court didn't uphold birthright citizenship in the end, since it's spelled out clearly in the 14th Amendment. And it didn't seem like any justices, at least, were openly entertaining the birthright, ending birthright citizenship based on that eo. But of course, we don't know. Some. Some could just be quiet. They didn't really talk about the case on the merits, the birthright citizenship on the merits all that much during the oral arguments. They spent most of the time about. They spent most of the time on the argument over nationwide injunctions. That said, it did seem clear that Solicitor General John Sauer didn't have great answers on some of the big questions about birthright citizenship and injunctions. Let's listen on the day after it goes into effect.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

This is just a very practical question, how this is going to work.

[Beto O'Rourke]

What do hospitals do with a newborn?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

What do states do with a newborn? I don't think they do anything different. What the executive order says in Section two is that federal officials do not.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Accept documents that have the wrong designation.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Of citizenship from people who are subject to the executive order.

[Jon Favreau]

How are they going to know that.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The states can continue to. The federal officials will have to figure that out.

[Jon Favreau]

How.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

So you can imagine a number of ways that the federal officials could. Such as? Such as they could require a showing of, you know, documentation showing legal presence in the country for a temporary visitor, for example. They could see whether they're on a.

[Beto O'Rourke]

B1 visa, which would exclude kind of.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The birthright citizenship in that kind of for all the newborns. Is that how that's going to work? Again, we don't know. This week, the Second Circuit holds that.

[Jon Favreau]

The executive order is unconstitutional. And then what do you do the.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Next day or the next week? Generally, we follow. So you're still saying generally?

[Beto O'Rourke]

Yes.

[Jon Favreau]

So that was Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett, two justices nominated by Donald J. Trump. What'd you make of the arguments and how the justices responded?

[Dan Pfeiffer]

The arguments around birthright citizenship were ridiculous. I mean, it even, it does feel like even Trump's attorneys were just sort of Trojan horsing this, using this case. They know they're going to lose this case. Trump doesn't know that because he was truthing up a storm in the middle of the night from the Middle east about why birthright citizenship is bad. But it seems like his attorneys are using this as a way to take on the issue of temporary restraining orders. Right. In nationwide injunctions, which has been a huge problem for Trump because he keeps violating laws and constitutions and processes and the above and all of his stuff. And those arguments were interesting because, like, there's obviously a governing challenge if any judge anywhere can just stop you from doing anything. And people go forum shopping, they go looking for the right Trump judge or the right not Trump judge. You know, we saw this a lot when Biden was president. Like, people, they went, people go forum shopping. And it just, we even saw this. There was less of this when we were in the White House. But There was a fair amount of. And it's very hard to govern if one judge anywhere can just stop the implementation of a policy for some period of time and then an appeals court undoes it and then maybe it goes to the Supreme Court and you're back into a hold. And so how they figure that out I think is interesting. There seems to be a general consensus among the justices, at least in the parts that I read that this is a challenge. What is the solution is an open question. Is it creating some sort of guidance for the courts on how to do it? Limiting the kinds of things that can be the sorts of issues that sort of limit to major constitutional issues that affect lots of people. There was some talk in there about could you make it specific to the people in that district. But that seems impossible to implement.

[Jon Favreau]

Birthright citizenship.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah. Like obviously for everything. But if you're, you know, like think about the mifepristone case. Right. Is it going to, we're going to stop. We're going to say it only can't be in this, in this federal court district, but everywhere else it's fine. That seems very hard to implement. So I know, far from an expert here, know very little about it, but it does seem like there's going to be, if anything comes of this case, it will be related to the use of nationwide injunctions in some way, shape or form.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. I think the most simplistic way to think about it is you're trying to balance out the threat of a rogue president with the threat of a rogue judge.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

And you always want to like put the shoe on the other foot. Right. And imagine if it's a Democratic president and like you said, conservative activists go forum shopping, find some crazy right wing Trumpy judge blocks a Democratic president's policy and now it's blocked across the country and now we have to wait for the Supreme Court. But then there's a problem that if you have an out of control president like Donald Trump who wants to just smash the Constitution and break laws and a judge is trying to stop them, then you're gonna have to wait, say no, no, you can't have a nationwide injunction. This crazy policy is gonna go through while we wa this issue to go through all the courts. Right. So it is a tough challenge, I.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Think, think about in the context of the flights to Libya we talked about.

[Jon Favreau]

Yes, yes.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

So it's like a judge in Texas stops them. You just move the detainees to somewhere else and fly in from there. Right. Like there are issues of imminent concern that have to be addressed right away and can only be addressed with some sort of nationwide injunction. And so hopefully that. That, like, it's obviously being. It's not. Abuse is not the right word. It prevents complications to governing. But to just throw the baby out with the bathwater, I think would be quite problematic and would really give even more power to the executive, which one thing we've seen in the last 120, 30, 40 days, whatever, it is not a great idea. They don't even need more power.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. All right. When we come back, you'll hear my interview with Beto o' Rourke about the long game in Texas and whether he's jumping back into politics there. Before we do that, I just interviewed Hasan Piker this week about getting detained and questioned by Trump's CPB agents in Chicago and Trump's general crackdown on free speech. It's a great interview. Horrifying, but also great. You can watch the interview on pod Save America's YouTube channel right now, and you'll find tons of other YouTube exclusives there as well. Make sure to subscribe to pod Save America's YouTube channel now at YouTube.com/Podsave America.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Can I jump in here for our listeners on the housekeeping? It costs you no money to subscribe to the Patamer YouTube channel. But I cannot emphasize how critical this is. I just saw a study the other day of how the right wing dominates political YouTube. Dominates it. The reason why they do is that the listeners of all of their show, the first thing they do is they go and subscribe to that media company's YouTube page. The more subscribers, the more the YouTube algorithm shows it to people, the more you grow subscribers. So we are asking you, asking you to help support progressive media. Just go smash the subscribe button so people do it. It will help ensure that more people get more progressive media, not just from us, but from the people we work with, like Brian Tyler Cohen, the Bulwark others. Thank you. End of pitch.

[Jon Favreau]

Excellent pitch, Dan. Excellent pitch. Pod Save America is brought to you by Mint Mobile. Summer's just around the corner and the folks at Mint Mobile have a hot take. Getting a summer bawd is out and getting your savings bod is in. This spring and summer, we want skimpy wireless bills and fat wallets. I like that. And with premium wireless plans for just 15 bucks a month, you can have both without breaking a sweat or the bank. You may have heard us mention Nina who works here at Crooked Media. Big fan of Hint Mobile. She says the data, speed and cell service are just as reliable as her old wireless plan, but at a fraction of the cost. Love to hear it. That was an exact quote from Nina when we saw her. We did just see her in D.C. she says, you know the data speed's amazing. Say bye to your overpriced wireless plans. Jaw dropping monthly bills and unexpected overages, Mint Mobile is here to rescue you. All plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. Use your own phone with any Mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number along with all your existing contacts. Ditch overpriced wireless and get three months of premium wireless service from Mint Mobile for 15 bucks a month this year. Skip breaking a sweat and breaking the bank. Get your summer savings and shop premium wireless plans@mint mobile.com crooked that's mintmobile.com crooked upfront payment of $45 for three month five gigabyte plan required equivalent to $15 a month new customer offer for first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See Mint Mobile for details.

[Beto O'Rourke]

This podcast is supported by Comedy Central's the Daily Show. When major headlines are coming fast and furious from every direction, it's impossible to.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

Know which way to turn.

[Jon Favreau]

Look to Jon Stewart and the Daily show news team every weeknight to keep the news on the straight and narrow, no matter how twisted it all seems to get the Daily show new weeknights.

[Beto O'Rourke]

At 11:10 Central on Comedy Central and next day on Paramount.

[Jon Favreau]

Plus better. O' Rourke, good to see you my friend.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Thank you for having me over.

[Jon Favreau]

What have you been up to? What's keeping you busy these days?

[Beto O'Rourke]

We're still running this group called Powered by People in Texas that you and your viewers and many others have been so helpful in supporting. Basically, we're registering likely Democrats where we can find them, typically on college campuses. And something that we've innovated around that I'm really excited about is after we register people, we stay in touch with them. So we'll say, you know, can I get your cell phone number? I'm going to help you through the voter ID process, which is incredibly complicated in the state of Texas. I'm going to give you a heads up when early voting starts. I know you care about women making their own choices about their own bodies or raising the minimum wage or these other issues that we just talked about. I'm going to tell you who the candidates are that reflect your values when they're on the ballot. So it's really labor intensive. We become these voting sherpas for people in Texas. That is. It's a state that's harder to vote in and harder to register in than any other. So that's a long term power building project. We're doing that. And then in meeting the moment and the urgency of this crisis that we're in as a country, I'm holding these town halls all over Texas. We just had one in Amarillo. We're about to have one in East Dallas County, Wichita Falls. Mansfield did one with Tim Walls in Fort Bend, just outside of Houston. And I've got to tell you, on a personal level, it just feels so good to be with people and to know you're not alone and to realize other people are seeing and feeling exactly what you're seeing and feeling. And it may be even better to listen and learn from people who are going through things that I'll never experience. But the ways in which this administration is hitting them or hurting them, something you can make up. I'm in Amarillo and this woman comes up to me at the end of the town hall and she said, I'm a 30 year owner of a toy store here in Amarillo. I think it's called Unique Toys. We were struck by lightning, place burned down and I'm trying to rebuild this place. And I'm now also negotiating. Is it 145% tariffs? Is it 30% tariffs? I would love to buy American made toys. They don't exist. 90% of the production in the world comes out of China. And you know, I'm going to have to close this shop. I'm going to have to look for another line of business. I'm going to have to fire my employees. And I don't know if she's a Republican or a Democrat. This is a county that voted for Trump 80% in the last election. But it takes these stories out of the headlines or the aggregate data. And now I've met this woman who's going through this hell because of this president and then I can go share her story to other people so they don't feel as alone and they realize there are other people out there like me. Not just in Austin or Dallas or New York or la, but in Amarillo, Texas too.

[Jon Favreau]

What was the. I know that personally, you just love being around people. It gives you energy, it inspires you. What was the genesis of the idea to get back out there again and like, what are you hoping that these town halls can, can do for people and just do for this moment?

[Beto O'Rourke]

I need to do something. Yeah, I'm gonna Go fucking crazy if I stay at home, if I'm just reading the news or scrolling through Twitter or trying to do this at distance. So I, so I know just personally I'm gonna feel better. And I've learned that, you know, when we went to the Wichita Falls town hall in wichita county again, 72% for Trump in the last election, what's wild is the look of surprise on people's faces. Not to see me, but to see, you know, 449 of their neighbors, many of them complete strangers. Again, we never screen for partisanship. We don't know who voted for whom in the last election and their ability to hear and listen to one another and out of that to go take action. I'll give you an example. We're in Wichita Falls and somebody stands up and says, I'm going to hold a protest tomorrow, Sunday in Sanger, Texas. Anybody live near Sanger, you join me tomorrow. There are going to be more people at that protest in Amarillo. A woman said, you know, I live in a neighboring town, Canyon, Texas, my 12 year old daughter with disabilities, when they cut the Individuals with Disabilities act, which Trump is going to do when they slash Title 1 funding, when you add to that the vouchers that Governor Abbott has imposed that take millions, almost a billion dollars out of our public schools, what's going to happen to my kid? She's going to get warehoused somewhere like we used to do with people with disabilities before. Who's going to fight with me? And so I said, can you tell me when the Canyon Independent School District Board of Trustees meets next Monday at 7:00pm okay, everyone, if you live anywhere near Canyon, Texas, you have, this lady's back Monday. And so I need to follow up with her to see how that, that school board meeting went. But there's real power in people coming together. It's not as some fear, you know, an empty gesture or virtue signaling or God, I feel great after doing that. But did it really change anything? It absolutely does. It gives us encouragement, it gives us faith, it stokes the optimism and hope that we need to then take action to go register people to vote or run for office or support that candidate or for, for my fellow Texans who've had their hearts broken one election cycle after another to hold off despair and actually take a chance and vote in this next one in, in 2026. So there's, there's real good that comes out of this. I'm going to just keep doing it because it's, it's better than, than nothing and it's better than waiting for somebody else to step up.

[Jon Favreau]

What are the issues that come up in these town halls from people? What are like the most common issues and what issues come up that are missing from the national debate that we're not talking about enough?

[Beto O'Rourke]

Something that's so interesting to me about going to these places that Democrats have almost always, well, at least for the last 30, 40 years, written off like Wichita county is, you, you hear some of what you would expect. A veteran stands up and says, well, Beto, can you tell me how cutting 83,000 positions at the VA, most of those positions held by veterans, by the way, how that's going to help me with my service connected disability claim or my, you know, six month wait time to see a behavioral health specialist? That's an important question. A woman who stands up and asks about cuts to Medicaid in a state that is the, the least insured already in the union. But then what perhaps you don't expect is the young mother to stand up and say, what are you doing about due process and the fact that they just sent this guy to this hellhole torture chamber prison in El Salvador and he had an order to protect him from deportation. They did it anyhow. And then she goes on to make the point, look, they come for these people that we don't want to stand next to right now. Do you want to stand next to the alleged terrorist, gang member, thug with the tattoos on his neck? But if you don't stand next to him and stand up for the Constitution, rule of law and due process, well, they're going to come for the next vulnerable population after that. And then pretty soon it's going to be us. And she was saying this prior to all of us learning that we're now actually deporting US citizen children, some of whom have stage 4 cancer and are leaving this country without their medications. So, you know, our temptation sometimes to write whole sections of the country off or to write people off based on who they voted for last time and is so dead wrong. And the only way you, you really learn that is by showing up and meeting people where they are. And, and I think what's missing right now from leadership in opposition to Trump and leadership that wants to replace him with something better is more of this, more showing up for people and, and showing up everywhere, fighting on every front, every one of the 254 counties, every one of the 50 states. We were just in Tuscaloosa with Doug Jones, the students at University of Alabama. Many were pissed that Trump was imposing himself on their graduation, he announced he was going to give the commencement address, though he had not been invited. Typical Trump. He's going to overshadow and try to outshine their achievement and their day of celebration. So they invited a few of us to come down and speak. And what I thought was so cool about it is no one from the DNC gave them marching orders. No one said, you should do this. Their state is not supposed to matter.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah.

[Beto O'Rourke]

To our party, there's zero investment that I can discern in, in places like Alabama. But they know that they matter and they want to be heard, and so they're going to get it done. 1500 people showed up at this public park on that day. And it was just, it was fantastic. It was absolutely beautiful. And out of that, you know, I stayed afterwards and folks were like, you know what? I think I'm going to run for office. I'm probably going to lose. But if I run and somebody follows me or I run again next time, ultimately we're going to get there and maybe the DNC will come to, to help us out. But I'm not going to hold my breath. I'm going to do what I can with what I have, where I am. I think that's the spirit of the moment. And those who want to lead better get with it.

[Jon Favreau]

How are you feeling about this constitutional crisis that we seem to find ourselves in right now?

[Beto O'Rourke]

The solace I can take in this moment is that we've been through this before. 249 years into this deal, there's this great speech that I know you're super familiar with. Johnson gives it eight days after Bloody Sunday. I think it's March 15, 1965. And, and he's putting John Lewis and those 600 marchers in the pantheon of great Americans who've answered the call at these moments of truth. So he says, as it was at Lexington and Concord 100 years ago at that courthouse in Appomattox. And I've always wondered why he didn't add, you know, on the beaches of Normandy in 44, where Americans were bravely fighting off fascism to defend democracy at home. He says, here is John Lewis in 1965, willing to give his life so that this country can fulfill its promise to itself and to the world. It's just one of the most beautiful moments in American history that the power flowed not from the President on down, but, but from 24 year old John Lewis on up to the White House.

[Jon Favreau]

And so, and Lyndon Johnson adopts We shall overcome and says it for the first time, which is came up from the civil rights movement.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Absolutely. You probably know this story too, of prior to that. Andrew Young and Dr. King are meeting with Johnson. This is the end of 64. And they're like, great job on civil rights, Mr. President. Now we'd like to vote. And Johnson at the end of the meeting says, I'd love to help you, but I just don't have the power. And King turns to Young as they're leaving, and he says, we got to go out there and get this guy some power. And I just love that conception of America government, of, by and for the people. The power always, when it really works, flows up. And so, yes, Trump has a concentration of political power in his hands. Elon Musk and the other oligarchs, concentration of economic power. You know, the billionaire masters of algorithm and influence, they've got some cultural power in their hands. But, you know, this great Lincoln line, public sentiment is everything. That's what, that's what Lewis was shaping and catalyzing in, in 1965 and countless others before and after him. My faith is in the American people and, and that we are going to come through. And though it's just anecdote that that meeting in, in Tuscaloosa with those students, it was so damn inspiring. Like, I needed to see that. The country needs to see that. And then one, one last example, John. You remember in 18, when Trump was imposing this family separation policy and, and people were just spontaneously rising up against it. It's unjust, it's immoral. How in the hell can this be happening in our name? And those protests culminated in one that we were a part of in Tornio, Texas. It's this small town in, in the lower valley of El Paso County. And this government contractor had constructed this tent city that was housing all of these separated kids. And we put out the call, many of us, you know, days before, and a thousand people show up. Folks drove down from Alaska, people flew in from Massachusetts, and folks came in from other parts of Texas. And we wanted to make sure those kids knew that we knew they were there. And, and we also wanted to bear witness and testify to the rest of the country. Hey, this is happening, and we got to do something about it. That's on June 18, June 20. Trump rescinds family separation. He could be moved, and he will be moved by public sentiment. So, yeah, the constitutional crisis, the undermining of the rule of law, it has never been more dire, certainly in our lives. But my faith is in the American people rising up and stopping this, certainly, I hope, in 2026, but we should not wait until that year. We have to do everything we can right now in this moment. We can move him and we can move the politics of this country, but it's going to take everybody doing everything they can. Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

And I think what makes it so much more difficult in 2025 is, well, there's a lot of factors, but I do think that the, the media environment and the information environment, just beyond the media environment is so much different. I think a lot about the civil rights movement and even that moment and, you know, when John Lewis was on that bridge and was beaten to within an inch of his life, that led the news on the three major channels that millions and millions and millions of Americans watched. We all watched the same thing. You had to pick between three channels. And it went to most of the country, and I don't know of anything now that breaks through good news or bad news, politics or not, to the entire country of moments like the Super Bowl. We just don't have these moments anymore. And so public opinion while it's turned against Trump. I keep thinking about 2024 and everyone who paid attention to the news voted for Kamala Harris and people who got their news from social media. Donald Trump won them by a bit. And then people who didn't get any news at all, who don't pay attention much to the news. He won them by a lot. And I wonder how we break through to people in the same way who might feel the same way we do if they learn about what's happening, but either because they're exhausted or because everything seems too bleak, or just because they're living busy lives are not closely paying attention to what's happening.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Yeah. So. So this is, this is the great opportunity for the Democratic Party to step up. And, and this is where we're completely failing the country right now. So three of the last seven or eight town halls I've had have all been in Ronnie Jackson's district. He's a far right congressman in Texas. So I mentioned. Doctor, doctor I've dealt with Dr. Amarillo, Denton and Wichita Falls. You know, in, in Amarillo, they're talking about the fact that they had to turn around 13 trucks, 18 wheelers full of food for their food bank because Trump cut the USDA supplemental that was passed under Biden, people are going to go hungry. In Amarillo, they're shutting down three of the public schools in the Amarillo ISD because of cuts to Title 1. And what's happening at, at the state level up in Dalhart, Texas, further north, they care about their local schools, they care about unions because it's a big rail hub, and they care about immigration, and they want more immigrants because they're an agricultural community. And no matter what they pay there, to anybody born in Dalhart, Texas, they're not taking the jobs. If we cannot figure out immigration better than what Trump is doing right now, that town will wither and die on the vine. There is no Democrat, no Democrat on the ballot making the other side of the argument on issues that we should absolutely fucking own every single day. And so if we continue to concentrate the presidential election in seven battleground states and leave Alabama and Texas to their own devices, if in Texas we only focus on the top of the ticket against John Cornyn or Ken Paxton, which is important, but neglect the state House races or the US Congressional races like the one against Ronnie Jackson, we're going to keep getting this. And we can never blame the people in Amarillo for either voting for Ronny Jackson because he has no opponent, or just not voting at all because they don't really have a choice. And so I, I recognize, John, that, that just saying this, that the proposition is extraordinarily expensive and it will force us to use muscles that, that we have not employed since, you know, Lyndon Johnson was, was crisscrossing the state. But, but if, if we don't become a truly national party and, and a party that can talk and listen to people, I think more importantly in rural Texas as well as, as urban Texas, then we will be consigned to irrelevancy. And, and we will up this moment. And, and this, this is, you know, in that litany that Johnson described, you know, as it was in Lexington, Concord, all the way up to Selma. So it is today, in 2025. And, and we have got to come through, because if we don't, I, I think you really do lose the last best hope of earth. I, I think this thing is gone. And the, the outright corruption and criminality and total disregard for the law that we're seeing from Donald Trump himself and from those around him leads me to believe that they think this thing is already gone, that they're not going to face accountability or voters or free and fair elections. And I don't think that that's the wrong logic for them to employ, given where we are and given how feckless so far and weak the opposition has been. So I sure hope that those who have the positions of power within our party, the money, the titles, the influence will follow the lead of those students in Tuscaloosa, of the people that we're listening to in Amarillo, and get after it and fight and dispense with this false choice of do we need to be more progressive or more centrist and moderate? It's just, are we going to fight or are we going to surrender? And if we fail to fight, this thing's over.

[Jon Favreau]

Oftentimes it is a false choice on the ideological spectrum, just partly because voters have, as you know, very complicated views and they can hold a view on one issue that's quite liberal and quite progressive and a view on another issue that's. That's conservative. Obviously, we can't take power, especially in the Senate, without winning states like Texas. I mean, I think to, to win The Senate in 26, Maine, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas, like, we'd need to win a lot of really tough states.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

And, you know, part of it is showing up. Part of it is. And people in the party will make this argument, especially people who look at the data, who've run in these races, who've talked to these voters, that Democrats have positions as a national party that don't always line up with voters in some of these redder states. And the question is, do you moderate your views? Do you say, no, these are my views and you don't have to agree with me on everything. But maybe we agree on this. Like, how do you navigate the fact that there just really are right of center voters on a whole host of issues in some of these states that we absolutely have to win to take back power?

[Beto O'Rourke]

Yeah. You know, I just don't know, just to be honest in my ignorance, just how much those policy positions and your place on the political spectrum really matter for some of the reasons you set up earlier, the lack of information that many voters have, not because they're dumb or uninterested, but because we don't have common facts that we share. They're delivered on three broadcast news channels or one daily newspaper or the evening paper, if you lived in a town like El Paso 40 years ago that had both. And so folks are getting information, you know, culturally or anecdotally or incidentally, if they're getting it at all. And I further agree with your point that people are complex. They voted for Obama and they voted for Trump, and they're not inconsistent. It's not hypocritical for them. Each man was speaking to them in that moment where they really needed to see that change that Obama was promising, that change that Trump was heralding. And to further make my point, look at the shit that Trump is doing. Like what poll test would return the results? Like you need to advocate invading Greenland or taking on, you know, Canada as a 51st state. Or your HHS secretary after two kids have died of measles in a country that hadn't lost a child to that virus in 20 years, is saying you shouldn't take medical advice from him or just take more vitamin A or just, or just tough it out. Deeply unpopular stuff. That, that woman who owns the, the toy store in Amarillo, she's absolutely getting screwed by this guy and is, and his total ineptitude. What he does have, what he does have is what seems and appears and is sold to people as the courage of his convictions. No one's cooking this stuff up for him. The shit that's coming out of his mouth is the shit that was generated in his brain. And, and there's something in today's overly controlled, sanitized corporate politics that's just really exciting about someone who speaks their mind. It just almost never, ever happens. Like we can name the people on, on one hand, I think Bernie Sanders is that way. I think AOC has that going for her. I mean, there's some people who really, who really stand out. And so I guess from everything I just said, have the courage of your convictions. I think strength appeals people to people far more than policy precision or your, or your ten point plan or just how far you've moderated your views to anticipate where they're going to be in November of 2026. You know, when I was running for senate in, in 2018 and we got so close to Ted Cruz and perhaps more importantly helped 12 insurgent Democrats defeat 12 incumbent Republicans in the state House. Colin Allred defeats Pete Sessions, Lizzie Panel Fletcher wins in Southeast Texas. It was transformative for the state that was not one on policy. They were like, this guy fucking shows up everywhere. He's working his ass off. He listens to me, whether I'm wearing a Trump hat or a Hillary hat. He just does not care. He's going to fight for me. He knows where I live. He understands what's happening here in Sweetwater or Roscoe or Dallas for that matter. Nobody's written off, nobody's taken for granted. So, you know, of course I'm biased based on experience, but I think that is the path forward. So whatever you believe, whatever you feel, let it show, let it come through in real, honest to God human terms. And I guarantee you you're going to have a Better chance of connecting with that voter than using the, you know, message tested approved line that came out of D.C. or Austin for that matter. You know, people want to connect with people. So be a person.

[Jon Favreau]

What could elected Democrats be doing better right now, either in Congress or in the states?

[Beto O'Rourke]

You know, the. So plenty of exceptions to this, and Bernie's a great exceptionist. He's just getting out there and he's being with people. Tim Walls, getting out there, being with people. Aoc, lots of Chris Murphy. I just saw Ro Khanna, a lot of really, really great leaders right now, you know, to, to show the other side of the party, you know, Chuck Schumer saying, well, we just got to wait till this guy's approval numbers go below 40. We did it before and we're going to do it again. So we, we'll kind of rope a dope him. We'll vote for this cr, which essentially gave, you know, Trump and Musk a free hand with our tax dollars to do whatever they wished with them. At this moment of constitutional crisis, that certainly cannot be the answer. And unfortunately, I think it appears. And who knows what's in their heads? There are too many Democrats who are waiting and watching to find out, you know, which way the wind is going to blow. Like, what. What is the message of this moment? And I can sympathize with those Democrats who don't want to hold a town hall because they're, they're asking themselves, well, what. What do I say? What's the answer? What's the silver bullet? People want the message, and I don't know what it is. You can be forgiven for not knowing what it is. I mean, this is ahistorical, unprecedented. We've never seen this before. But all the more reason for you to be with the people that you purportedly serve and represent and listen to them. They're going to have the answer. They're going to have the message. I guarantee you. Listen to them. Not the consultants, not the pollsters, not the data scientists. Those folks are important, too, but really more at the margins than anywhere else. So. And that's what I'm hearing from folks. You know, one of the questions I get, no matter where I travel in the state or outside of the state, is, where is the Democratic Party? Where are people? What the hell are you guys going to do? Who's fighting for me right now? You know, it's. You know this because you're an expert in messaging. The message is, we fight for you. But the trick is you can't say that you have to show that.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. You can't read in the stage directions from Democrats.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Yeah.

[Jon Favreau]

I don't know if you've come across any of the excerpts from Jake Tapper and Alex Thompson's new book, Original Sin, which is about Biden his decision to run again, sort of decline and age related issues. I'm thinking about it because you were just mentioning, you know, Democrats have to listen to people. Clearly the Biden folks were not listening to a whole bunch of voters, not just Democratic voters, but voters all across the country for a long time who didn't want him to run. And then, you know, post debate trying to tell people that what they were seeing with their eyes wasn't real. To what extent do you think Democratic politicians and party officials have a credibility issue to fix with voters? Due in part to everything that went on in 24.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Just to be clear, Biden should not have run again. And to be even more clear, he failed this country in the most important job that he had, in fact, the entire rationale for his presidency the first time and the rationale he tried to sell us on for his attempt to run for reelection. Only I can stop Donald Trump and he failed to do that. And it's not just you and me, but our kids and grandkids and the generations that follow that might have to pay the price for this. We might very well lose the greatest country that this world has ever known. And, and it might be in part because of the decision that Biden and those around him made to run for, for reelection instead of having an open primary where the, the greatest talent that the Democratic Party can muster could be on that stage, to have a competition of ideas and track record and vision and really excite not just Democrats but the people of this country who did want change. I mean, if anything was clear coming out of 2024, they wanted change. And to literally run the oldest guy who many people accurately, to your point, said, I just don't think he is capable of doing this. And I know that I saw the congresswoman and the congressman on CNN saying he's running circles around us in the briefing rooms behind closed doors. It just, it doesn't add up with what I'm seeing with my own lying eyes. I, I think that credibility problem is going to persist up until when Democrats say we up and we made a terrible mistake and it didn't just hurt our ability to win election in a political campaign. It deeply and gravely and perhaps we'll see irrevocably harmed this country. And so, you know, you and Many others got out there and told the truth. And I don't think you did it in. In a crass or brazen or mean way. I think you said, hey, maybe we should have this conversation. And, and we're absolutely trashed for doing it. You know, others, I think, saw that were concerned, but worried that, you know, Biden's already out there. He's going, am I going to hurt him and his chances and our ability to defeat Trump if I further weaken him? I was definitely hearing stuff like that. I. I supported, you know, folks who were behind the uncommitted movement in Michigan, not because I wanted to hurt Biden or Kamala Harris, but because I. I was. I just couldn't stand what was happening in Gaza. I didn't like America's complicity in that. I knew President Biden had the power to do something. And here were people speaking of the civil rights and voting rights movement who were peacefully, democratically, nonviolently protesting to get the president's attention, to give him the power to do the right thing. And, and when I spoke on behalf of those who were doing that in Michigan, and in the same breath saying, you know, I want to defeat Donald Trump, and if Biden is our nominee, we should vote for him, you know, the, the attacks were, you know, you're undermining the president, you're weakening him in front of this election. Why don't you just shut up and stand with him? And if we're the world's greatest democracy, you never shut up and stand with anybody when they're wrong. And, and you always have to speak the truth. So grateful to you and others who did do that. I wish more of us had done more at that time, but the last thing that we can do is fail to learn from that and not be honest about Chuck Schumer right now, not be honest about other Democratic leaders who are failing us in this moment. The time to be polite and kind and respectful is over. You know, Democrats, it seems, care far too much about being right and being polite than being in power. Republicans under Trump care about power and nothing else. Not the Constitution, not the rule of law, not being nice to one another. We don't have to be so immoral or illegal or corrupt, but I think we have to be far more ruthless and real about power or we'll never have it again.

[Jon Favreau]

Yeah. And, you know, whenever we talk about it now, people are like, oh, wait, he's still picking on Joe Biden, and let's just move forward. And you see a lot of Democratic Politicians are like, let's move forward.

[Dan Pfeiffer]

And.

[Jon Favreau]

And it's not only about Biden. I do think our party, you know, we just talked about how reading polls too closely is bad. You get poll tested messages and all that shit. But knowing where the public is and trying to at least meet them where they are on issues I do think is important, I think is an issue that our party's had over the last several years. And it's not just with Biden's age. It was like, hey, the economy's great and look at all the statistics and people are feeling the pricing increases.

[Beto O'Rourke]

It's much worse in England and Europe. It's not so bad here in America. Here's the comparative example that you need to pay attention to.

[Jon Favreau]

And you've lived this being on the border, which is like, oh, immigration is just an issue that Trump uses to win elections and that people couldn't possibly be upset by more migrants coming over the border than any time before. And look, you can imagine that people still want to be generous and want to have more immigration in this country, but are worried that when you have so many migrants coming across the border in a community and it's stretching the public services in that community, that people are going to be upset by that. And I just think that we have to do a better job really finding out where people are. And even if we disagree with their policy solutions or we disagree with their positions, like figuring out a way to make sure that they feel seen and heard.

[Beto O'Rourke]

Absolutely. You know, I spent a lot of time on the border in, well, for forever I lived there. But going to other border communities like Eagle Pass in Maverick county, this is where Abbott has put these border buoys that are in the river that have razor wire. It's just like medieval torture death device that has led to far too many migrants losing their lives. You know, mothers and young children, that's obviously the wrong way to do it. But when I listen to people in Maverick county, they're like, where's the president? Where. Where is the party? Like, Beto, would you be okay if at 2am 20 people are walking through your. Your backyard, you don't know who they are or where they came from or what they might do to you and your family. Is that cool with you? No, I wouldn't like that either. It sounds like you have a real problem here. Well, then where the hell are you guys? Quit telling us that everything is okay or that we're managing this through the asylum process, or we just need to get comprehensive immigration reform done. So vote for me in the next election until we have a majority. And they know that we had a majority in both houses and a Democrat in the White House in 2009 and the same in 2021. And I don't begrudge Obama or Biden for the priorities they chose instead of immigration. They were both very, very, very important. But that's not lost on the voter. You guys talk a good game. You never fix this shit. So I may not like walls and family separation and kids in cages and all the other crazy shit that Trump does, but if he's the only guy offering change and taking us seriously and showing up and visiting the border, okay, I guess I'm going to vote for him. So should not be a surprise to us that we lost so many voters in Maverick county and the Rio Grande Valley and El Paso, Texas, my hometown, you know, El Paso, Texas, which saw a Trump inspired shooter come and murder 23 people and said he was coming to repel the invasion of Hispanics who were taking over our country. Trump still won more voters in 2024 than he did in 2020 or 2016. So you're absolutely right. We got to listen to people and we can't tell them not to trust their lying eyes on price increases on a border that is out of control or. One of the things I learned as somebody who often talks about democracy is, you know, I know what I'm talking about when I talk about democracy. It's the right to vote and to freely and fairly choose a person who represents you and my love of this country and 249 years of history and are we really going to blow it? But for someone for whom this country has not been working it, you know, they're making $7.25 an hour or they're a young person who has heard us talk about school shooting.