Pod Save America — "Trump’s Secret Plan for a 3rd Term"

Date: October 28, 2025
Hosts: Jon Favreau, Jon Lovett, Tommy Vietor
Featured Guest: Mark Elias (founder of Democracy Docket, prominent Democratic elections attorney)

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into recent claims by Steve Bannon that Donald Trump has a plan to serve a third term as president—a clear violation of the 22nd Amendment. The hosts analyze whether such rhetoric should be taken seriously, what risks it presents to democracy, and how to respond without feeding the flames of Trumpian spectacle. They address ongoing Republican efforts to undermine confidence in upcoming elections, escalating threats to voting rights, and Trump’s attempts to delegitimize democratic institutions. The episode also covers the 2025 elections, the government shutdown, threats to New York City if Zoran Mamdani wins the mayoralty, and broader fears of rising authoritarianism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Trump’s “Third Term” Chatter & Authoritarian Undercurrents

• Steve Bannon’s Provocations: Bannon claimed there’s a “plan” for a Trump third term, calling Trump the “instrument of divine will.” (03:48)
• Trump’s Response: Trump, when asked, didn’t rule it out, vainly referencing his high poll numbers and attacking opponents with trademark insults. (04:01)
• How Should This Be Handled?
  • Lovett: Seriousness is warranted, but don’t grant credibility:
    “Will he do it? Will he try? Yes. Will he succeed? No. ... There’s no secret part of the Constitution we’re not aware of with ‘king mode’ in it.” (05:37)
  • Vietor: The dangers are real, but Bannon/Trump are “trolling” as much as actually plotting. Worth monitoring, but don’t catastrophize.
  • Polling Data:
    • 91% of Democrats and 77% of independents oppose Trump running again. (07:31)
    • Even among Republicans, a majority supports two-term limits.
  • On GOP Cowardice:
    Lovett: “Look at all these pathetic Republicans around him... standing there while Trump is promising some kind of, like, dictatorship.” (10:07)
  • On the Lame Duck Issue (Favreau):
    “The most benign explanation is...to avoid appearing like a lame duck. ... Of course, Trump doesn’t have to wait until 2028 to screw with our elections.” (11:19)

2. Preemptive Election Delegitimization & the DOJ’s Role

• Trump’s New Claims: He’s calling the upcoming Prop 50 election in California “rigged,” urging the DOJ to monitor and seed doubt. (11:53)
• Use of DOJ “Monitors”:
  • Lovett (w/ Elias’s analysis): These moves are a pretext to challenge results and delegitimize future contests—particularly concerning for 2026.
    “This is a illegitimate use of election monitoring as a pretext for calling elections false...” (14:37)
  • DOJ monitors sent only to Democratic strongholds, especially in diverse communities.
• Contrast with Voting Reality: Lovett shares the “wholesome and democratic” reality of voting in CA, highlighting how Trumpists are detached from actual process. (13:56)
• Fear of Escalation: This tactic is about creating permission structures for escalated interference and narrative-building ahead of bigger races.

3. Congressional Shenanigans & The Erosion of Norms

• Refusal to Seat Elected Democrats: Speaker Mike Johnson blocks Adelita Grijalva from being sworn into the House, potentially previewing future norm-breaking. (17:08)
  • Legal Gray Area:
    “The Constitution is not self-executing...not unconstitutional not to swear in, just a huge breach of norms.” (18:01 - Vietor)
  • Multiplicity of Dangers: Johnson could duplicate this in 2026 if midterms are close, simply refusing to seat Democratic winners under thin pretexts. (19:21)
  • Built-in Checks: There are “natural systems defenses”—eventually, even GOP members will want to preserve legitimacy for their own seats. (21:36)
• Historical Context: House is “ultimate judge” of its own elections; such reversals are rare but not unprecedented.

4. Trump’s DOJ & Retaliation Fantasies

• Calls to Prosecute Opponents: Trump wants his DOJ to go after Jack Smith, Merrick Garland, former FBI officials over the “Arctic Frost” investigation into phone data (23:02)
  • Reality Check: It was about tolling data, not wiretaps. Demonizing normal investigative steps, Trump seeks to criminalize those who held him accountable.
  • Lovett: “These guys are acting as if the idea that they would ever be part of a scheme to overturn the election is so ridiculous ... A fucking disgrace.” (24:02)
• Judicial Norms: Ironically, Garland’s DOJ blocked effort to oust Judge Eileen Cannon, despite claims that he’s engaged in political witch hunts. (25:22)

5. Focus on the 2025 New York Mayoral Election & the AOC/Bernie Left

• Trump’s Threats to NYC:
  • Threatens to cut off federal funding and even to try to strip Zoran Mamdani of citizenship if he wins. (28:12)
  • Republican House members talk openly about denaturalization of political opposition—an overtly authoritarian escalation.
• Massive Progressive Rally:
  • Bernie, AOC, and Gov. Hochul rally with Mamdani; 13,000+ attendees signal rising left energy. (29:13)
• Mamdani’s Political Savvy:
  • “He is just, like, effortlessly charming.” (30:42 - Vietor)
  • Straddles idealism and pragmatic politics, adapting positions, charming power brokers even as he remains authentic. (31:19 - Lovett)
• Republican Strategy:
  • Making Mamdani the face of the national Democratic Party, relying on Islamophobic and xenophobic attacks.
  • On denaturalization: Favreau: “If [Trump] tries to deport a leader of the opposition...then I think every single American should take to the streets.” (35:18)

6. The Ongoing Government Shutdown

• Shutdown Impact:
  • Looming pain for 40M on SNAP, Head Start, ACA premiums spiking up to 30%+, airport dangers, and more. (40:00)
  • Trump refuses to spend contingency funds for social welfare, making things worse on purpose.
• Republican Messaging:
  • Mike Johnson claims House is “doing the most meaningful work of their career” while on recess—pure spin. (41:21)
• Democratic Calculus:
  • Consensus to stand strong, as public polling supports Democrats’ stance against GOP’s moves.
• Private Army?
  • MAGA billionaire Timothy Mellon donates $130M so the military can make payroll—potentially illegal and deeply troubling as perverse privatization of state power. (48:20)
  • Favreau: “I don’t like a privately funded army... under the control of the President and maybe that guy.” (49:49)

7. Inflation & Trump’s Tariff Tantrums

• Recent Tariffs:
  • Trump raises tariffs against Canada after an ad used a 1987 Reagan speech. This move directly increases costs for US consumers and farmers. (52:05)
  • Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, a hedge fund slumlord, laughably claims kinship with soybean farmers while personally profiting from related land. (53:04)
• Populist Disconnect:
  • Despite harsh Trump policies hurting farmers and a localized depression in Iowa, his base’s support remains unmoved. (59:41)

8. The Futility—and Necessity—of Democratic Engagement

• Despite national polls showing races remain closely divided, even after catastrophic Republican policies, the hosts emphasize the critical need for sustained organizing, activism, and legal vigilance.

Mark Elias Interview: Protecting Democracy Against the MAGA Playbook

[65:16 – 92:23]

Key Takeaways:

• Take Trump’s Threats Both “Literally and Seriously”
  “He wants a third term. I fully expect he is going to try to get a third term. ... There’s no constitutional loophole here ... but that won’t stop Donald Trump...” (65:47 - Elias)
• Most Likely Endgame: January 6th Redux
  MAGA isn’t planning subtle legal circumvention; they’re more prone to “bulldozing” norms, inciting unrest, and counting on a loyal bureaucracy at DOJ, ICE, and possibly the military to interfere in or refuse to certify results. (68:36)
• Delegitimization by Narrative & Vigilantism
  • The use of DOJ “election monitors” under the guise of voting-rights enforcement is a pretext for seeding claims of fraud and justifying intervention in future (2026, 2028) elections (71:18)
  • Expect mass voter challenges and direct intimidation (i.e., people in body armor staking out ballot dropboxes)
• Weak Norms, Strong Activism
  • When Republicans make moves in public, they often back down if met with substantial, visible opposition (the Wayne County, MI Board exemplified this after 2020). (82:03)
  • “They can only steal elections in quiet... but if people are paying attention, by and large they wind up doing the thing that is right.” (84:47)
• Practical Steps for Listeners
  • “The single most important thing that anyone can do...is speak up.” Have the hard conversations, don’t sit out political discussions. (88:30)
  • If you can, volunteer or donate to campaigns, ballot initiatives, or civic organizations, or become a poll worker.
  • Sunshine, oversight, and activism can prevent subversion at crucial points.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lovett (on the “third term”):

  "Will he do it? Will he try? Yes. Will he succeed? No. ... There’s no secret part of the Constitution we’re not aware of with ‘king mode’ in it." (05:37)

• Elias (on Trump’s intentions):

  "Take him both literally and seriously. ... There’s no legal way for him to seek a third term. But that won’t stop Donald Trump from trying to do so anyway." (65:47)

• Favreau (on the denaturalization threat):

  "If Donald Trump and the ruling party decide that they’re gonna try to deport a leader of the opposition ... then I think every single American should take to the streets." (35:18)

• Lovett (on voting rights):

  "If that is fragile, then citizenship itself is fragile. It’s incredibly dangerous. ... Not just for politics—it’s a principle." (36:23)

• Elias (on actions listeners can take):

  “Cowards are the ones who are trying to suppress the vote and they do not withstand a little sunshine.” (91:07)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Trump 3rd Term/Bannon Comments — 03:48–11:52
• DOJ, Prop 50, Election Monitoring — 11:53–15:54
• Congressional Norms/Election Seating — 17:08–21:15
• DOJ/Operation Arctic Frost — 23:02–26:03
• Mamdani, AOC, NYC Mayoral Politics — 28:12–39:34
• Government Shutdown & Republican Leverage — 40:00–46:19
• Private Donors Funding Government Functions — 48:20–52:05
• Tariffs, Inflation, Soybean “Slumlords” — 52:37–55:58
• Stubborn Polls, Democratic Challenges — 57:14–60:12
• Mark Elias Interview (Election Subversion Tactics & Defenses) — 65:16–92:23

Episode Tone & Style

The conversation blends urgency, irreverence, and dark humor. Hosts highlight the absurdity of MAGA tactics but remain soberingly clear-eyed about the stakes for democracy and citizen responsibility.

Summary for Listeners

This episode arms listeners with clear information about the legally and normatively impossible MAGA fantasy of Trump’s third term, exposes the real authoritarian maneuvers Republican leaders are preparing, and rallies listeners to become visible, vocal participants in defending democracy. Whether you’re worried about mass intimidation at the ballot box, norm-busting in Congress, or creeping executive overreach, the take-home message is clear: vigilance, activism, and solidarity are the best antidotes to Trumpist chaos.

“The most important thing everyone can do is speak up and participate. Sunshine and activism are stronger than their tactics—if we choose to act.” — Mark Elias (88:30)