Pod Save America — "What It Would Take to Rein in ICE"

Date: January 18, 2026
Host: Alex Wagner (with guest Leah Litman, law professor and host of Strict Scrutiny)

Episode Overview

This urgent and sobering episode examines the shocking increase in ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) violence and lawlessness, following the high-profile killing of Renee Nicole Goode by an ICE officer in Minneapolis. Host Alex Wagner is joined by legal scholar Leah Litman to unpack the legal, political, and societal implications of escalating federal force, the role of the Insurrection Act, barriers to accountability, the complicit reaction of the Trump Administration, and the chilling failure of American governmental checks and balances in the face of rights-violating federal law enforcement.

Main Topics and Key Insights

1. The Killing of Renee Nicole Goode and Its Fallout

[01:58–05:33]

Renee Nicole Goode, a poet, mother, and Minneapolis resident, was shot and killed by an ICE officer. The incident was captured on video and has ignited nationwide outcry.
The Trump Administration’s response was to label Goode a “domestic terrorist” (DHS Secretary Kristi Noem), with VP J.D. Vance asserting ICE agents should have “absolute immunity.”
The DOJ has focused on investigating Goode’s widow, Rebecca, instead of the officer responsible, sparking resignation of six federal prosecutors, including the Trump-appointed acting U.S. Attorney for Minnesota.
Massive ICE operations have flooded Minnesota with 3,000 agents, leading to chilling reports of protest crackdowns, protester shootings, and aggressive federal actions against civilians.

Notable Quote:

“Are there legal avenues available to anyone to push back against ICE? … How do you stop mercenaries if the guy they're working for is the President of the United States?” — Alex Wagner [04:41]

2. The Insurrection Act: Limits and Dangers

[05:33–11:35]

Leah Litman explains the Insurrection Act creates an exception to the Posse Comitatus Act, allowing the military to perform domestic law enforcement.
Historically invoked only in extreme circumstances (e.g., post-Civil War, LA Riots)—usually with state invitation, not federal aggression. No current justification exists in Minnesota.
Its invocation is largely unreviewable by courts, and typically the President receives extreme deference.

Notable Quote:

“The Insurrection Act is really designed to allow the President to deploy the military when state and local officers are… facilitating… private violence... There are precisely zero circumstances on the ground that suggest Minnesota is anywhere near approaching that situation.” — Leah Litman [07:31]

3. Legal Tools and Levers for Communities and Individuals

[12:07–15:06]

Ordinary people’s camera phones are significant—video evidence can serve in cases against officers or for future truth and reconciliation efforts.
Public shaming and resistance (“calling ICE agents Nazis and telling them to get the fuck out of here”) may deter some agents.
Citizens should pressure state and federal representatives for hearings, litigation, and legislative changes.
Community solidarity—neighborhood patrols, mutual aid, etc.—is vital for resilience.

Notable Quote:

“You should do that. Beyond that, I think it’s tough… There are ways that we as a community can support one another and protect the people who are most vulnerable.” — Leah Litman [13:10]

4. Legal Barriers to Accountability for ICE Actions

[15:54–20:13 & 21:52–26:30]

Even when ICE agents violate explicit bans (such as chokeholds), overcoming their “qualified immunity” in court is difficult.
Business owners can slow ICE operations (e.g., requiring judicial warrants, refusing service), but federal agents often ignore those limits.
Congressional oversight is supposed to function as a check—by conducting facility inspections, holding hearings, or withholding funding. Yet the administration has barred entry to Members of Congress and retaliated against those who attempt oversight, sometimes through prosecution.

Notable Quote:

“Congressional oversight…can yank back ICE’s funding and say... we’re not going to give you this money unless you offer the following protections... But this administration is pushing back, because they don’t actually want any oversight.” — Leah Litman [22:38]

5. Complexities of State and Local Resistance and Legal Recourse Against ICE

[26:30–31:32]

State/local law enforcement can, in theory, prosecute federal officers for violating local law, but federal law typically prevails if an officer claims they were performing their federal duties. The current scale and brazenness of ICE violations are unprecedented, possibly opening new legal ground.
The Justice Department’s decision to investigate Goode’s widow, not the officer, is part of a pattern of “dehumanizing their victims” and demonstrates how the executive branch, bolstered by recent Supreme Court immunity decisions, has broad, unchecked investigative powers.

Notable Quote:

“This is very much part of their campaign to dehumanize their victims. It doesn’t really matter who the victim is. If you get in their way, their view is you’ve lost all of your rights, you’ve lost your humanity.” — Leah Litman [28:42]

6. Collapse of Traditional Oversight and Justice Systems

[31:32–41:36]

Six senior federal prosecutors’ resignation may slow politicized DOJ investigations and highlight their lack of legitimacy—potentially helping future legal defenses.
The FBI has frozen out Minnesota state police from the investigation into Goode’s killing—highly unusual and further evidence the DOJ aims to control the narrative, not find the truth.

Notable Quote:

“If all the career prosecutors resign because they're uncomfortable handling this case, that's pretty good evidence to the judge that this case stinks.” — Leah Litman [32:57]

7. Barriers to Suing Federal Agents; The Bivens Gap

[43:55–48:19]

There is no equivalent to Section 1983 for federal officers, making it extremely difficult to sue ICE agents who violate constitutional rights.
The Supreme Court has gutted the Bivens doctrine, so absent Congressional action (“Bivens fix”), most victims have no route to sue for damages.

Notable Quote:

“Because we are seeing this unprecedented surge in immigration enforcement… there aren’t prior Bivens cases that say you can sue under these circumstances. Even though, like Bivens, for Renee Nicole Goode and her family, it is Bivens or nothing.” — Leah Litman [45:48]

8. The Courts as a ‘Bulwark’—Or Not

[48:41–51:32]

Lower courts have, at times, checked Trump, but the Supreme Court and increasingly partisan federal judiciary now block, weaken, or ignore remedies—through narrowed powers, extreme judges, and “Fuck you” attitudes toward the rule of law.

Notable Quote:

“We can't count on the federal courts to always be there. You know, we have to take a belt and suspenders approach to thinking about our rights.” — Leah Litman [50:25]

9. Broader Patterns: Assault on Civil Rights, Accountability, and Minorities

[54:42–62:52]

The right-wing legal offensive is not limited to immigration. The administration is targeting trans rights, proposing a federal ban on trans athletes, and threatening to cut off funding to states with inclusive policies.
Both in immigration and gender rights, the administration leverages impunity and dehumanizes those outside its political agenda. There is overt racial and homophobic animus, evident in ICE’s targeting of communities of color and in the treatment of Goode’s lesbian widow.

Notable Quote:

“They will dehumanize all of those people and just attempt to normalize the state violence against them.” — Leah Litman [58:27]

10. Accountability & The ‘After Times’: What Comes Next?

[60:31–64:21]

Litman cautions Trump officials may rely on mass preemptive pardons or, more chillingly, believe Republicans’ electoral grip will never loosen. History shows Democrats have struggled to hold Trump administration actors accountable.
Wagner urges civic resolve: public outcry, protest, and political pressure offer hope for change.

Notable Quotes:

“Honestly, I also think they are telling themselves… that Democrats just don't have the spine... They would never actually hold anyone meaningfully, legally accountable.” — Leah Litman [61:39]
“If the Trump administration thinks that the citizenry will go quietly into this good night, I think they got something else coming for them.” — Alex Wagner [63:06]

Action Steps for Listeners

Demand Legislative Reform: Call for Congress to pass a "Bivens fix"—extending civil rights suit protections to those harmed by federal agents—and to abolish qualified immunity for ICE.
Document Abuses: The power of video evidence is real—keep recording as a form of accountability.
Support Your Community: Engage in local mutual aid, practical resistance, and solidarity with targeted communities.
Stay Engaged Politically: Pressure representatives for oversight, hearings, and legislative remedies.

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

“[The] Insurrection Act… is so rarely used… There are precisely zero circumstances on the ground that suggest Minnesota is anywhere near approaching that situation.” — Leah Litman [07:31]
“You should do that. Beyond that, I think it’s tough… There are ways that we as a community can support one another and protect the people who are most vulnerable.” — Leah Litman [13:10]
“This is very much part of their campaign to dehumanize their victims… You’ve lost all your rights, you’ve lost your humanity…” — Leah Litman [28:42]
“We can't count on the federal courts to always be there... We have to take a belt and suspenders approach…” — Leah Litman [50:25]
“If the Trump administration thinks that the citizenry will go quietly into this good night, I think they got something else coming for them.” — Alex Wagner [63:06]

Tone & Takeaway

The episode is urgent, frank, and outraged—matching the extreme moment it documents. Wagner and Litman balance legal expertise, dark humor (“Public shaming… calling ICE officers now fucking Nazis and telling them to get the fuck out of here.” [13:30]), and moral clarity in confronting a government that appears to have abandoned accountability and human rights.

This conversation is essential for understanding not just the mechanics of immigration enforcement or legal doctrine, but the existential stakes for democracy, civil rights, and the American social contract.

For further action:

Call your representatives to demand a federal Bivens fix.
Record and report abuses.
Support local efforts resisting illegitimate federal violence.
Stay informed and engaged, because, as Litman says:

“There are specific asks you can make… in order to build a movement around and to organize people around.” [64:05]

(Summary excludes all advertisements and non-content sections.)

Pod Save America — "What It Would Take to Rein in ICE"

Date: January 18, 2026
Host: Alex Wagner (with guest Leah Litman, law professor and host of Strict Scrutiny)

Episode Overview

Main Topics and Key Insights

1. The Killing of Renee Nicole Goode and Its Fallout

[01:58–05:33]

Renee Nicole Goode, a poet, mother, and Minneapolis resident, was shot and killed by an ICE officer. The incident was captured on video and has ignited nationwide outcry.
The Trump Administration’s response was to label Goode a “domestic terrorist” (DHS Secretary Kristi Noem), with VP J.D. Vance asserting ICE agents should have “absolute immunity.”
The DOJ has focused on investigating Goode’s widow, Rebecca, instead of the officer responsible, sparking resignation of six federal prosecutors, including the Trump-appointed acting U.S. Attorney for Minnesota.
Massive ICE operations have flooded Minnesota with 3,000 agents, leading to chilling reports of protest crackdowns, protester shootings, and aggressive federal actions against civilians.

Notable Quote:

“Are there legal avenues available to anyone to push back against ICE? … How do you stop mercenaries if the guy they're working for is the President of the United States?” — Alex Wagner [04:41]

2. The Insurrection Act: Limits and Dangers

[05:33–11:35]

Leah Litman explains the Insurrection Act creates an exception to the Posse Comitatus Act, allowing the military to perform domestic law enforcement.
Historically invoked only in extreme circumstances (e.g., post-Civil War, LA Riots)—usually with state invitation, not federal aggression. No current justification exists in Minnesota.
Its invocation is largely unreviewable by courts, and typically the President receives extreme deference.

Notable Quote:

“The Insurrection Act is really designed to allow the President to deploy the military when state and local officers are… facilitating… private violence... There are precisely zero circumstances on the ground that suggest Minnesota is anywhere near approaching that situation.” — Leah Litman [07:31]

3. Legal Tools and Levers for Communities and Individuals

[12:07–15:06]

Ordinary people’s camera phones are significant—video evidence can serve in cases against officers or for future truth and reconciliation efforts.
Public shaming and resistance (“calling ICE agents Nazis and telling them to get the fuck out of here”) may deter some agents.
Citizens should pressure state and federal representatives for hearings, litigation, and legislative changes.
Community solidarity—neighborhood patrols, mutual aid, etc.—is vital for resilience.

Notable Quote:

“You should do that. Beyond that, I think it’s tough… There are ways that we as a community can support one another and protect the people who are most vulnerable.” — Leah Litman [13:10]

4. Legal Barriers to Accountability for ICE Actions

[15:54–20:13 & 21:52–26:30]

Even when ICE agents violate explicit bans (such as chokeholds), overcoming their “qualified immunity” in court is difficult.
Business owners can slow ICE operations (e.g., requiring judicial warrants, refusing service), but federal agents often ignore those limits.
Congressional oversight is supposed to function as a check—by conducting facility inspections, holding hearings, or withholding funding. Yet the administration has barred entry to Members of Congress and retaliated against those who attempt oversight, sometimes through prosecution.

Notable Quote:

“Congressional oversight…can yank back ICE’s funding and say... we’re not going to give you this money unless you offer the following protections... But this administration is pushing back, because they don’t actually want any oversight.” — Leah Litman [22:38]

5. Complexities of State and Local Resistance and Legal Recourse Against ICE

[26:30–31:32]

State/local law enforcement can, in theory, prosecute federal officers for violating local law, but federal law typically prevails if an officer claims they were performing their federal duties. The current scale and brazenness of ICE violations are unprecedented, possibly opening new legal ground.
The Justice Department’s decision to investigate Goode’s widow, not the officer, is part of a pattern of “dehumanizing their victims” and demonstrates how the executive branch, bolstered by recent Supreme Court immunity decisions, has broad, unchecked investigative powers.

Notable Quote:

“This is very much part of their campaign to dehumanize their victims. It doesn’t really matter who the victim is. If you get in their way, their view is you’ve lost all of your rights, you’ve lost your humanity.” — Leah Litman [28:42]

6. Collapse of Traditional Oversight and Justice Systems

[31:32–41:36]

Six senior federal prosecutors’ resignation may slow politicized DOJ investigations and highlight their lack of legitimacy—potentially helping future legal defenses.
The FBI has frozen out Minnesota state police from the investigation into Goode’s killing—highly unusual and further evidence the DOJ aims to control the narrative, not find the truth.

Notable Quote:

“If all the career prosecutors resign because they're uncomfortable handling this case, that's pretty good evidence to the judge that this case stinks.” — Leah Litman [32:57]

7. Barriers to Suing Federal Agents; The Bivens Gap

[43:55–48:19]

There is no equivalent to Section 1983 for federal officers, making it extremely difficult to sue ICE agents who violate constitutional rights.
The Supreme Court has gutted the Bivens doctrine, so absent Congressional action (“Bivens fix”), most victims have no route to sue for damages.

Notable Quote:

“Because we are seeing this unprecedented surge in immigration enforcement… there aren’t prior Bivens cases that say you can sue under these circumstances. Even though, like Bivens, for Renee Nicole Goode and her family, it is Bivens or nothing.” — Leah Litman [45:48]

8. The Courts as a ‘Bulwark’—Or Not

[48:41–51:32]

Lower courts have, at times, checked Trump, but the Supreme Court and increasingly partisan federal judiciary now block, weaken, or ignore remedies—through narrowed powers, extreme judges, and “Fuck you” attitudes toward the rule of law.

Notable Quote:

“We can't count on the federal courts to always be there. You know, we have to take a belt and suspenders approach to thinking about our rights.” — Leah Litman [50:25]

9. Broader Patterns: Assault on Civil Rights, Accountability, and Minorities

[54:42–62:52]

The right-wing legal offensive is not limited to immigration. The administration is targeting trans rights, proposing a federal ban on trans athletes, and threatening to cut off funding to states with inclusive policies.
Both in immigration and gender rights, the administration leverages impunity and dehumanizes those outside its political agenda. There is overt racial and homophobic animus, evident in ICE’s targeting of communities of color and in the treatment of Goode’s lesbian widow.

Notable Quote:

“They will dehumanize all of those people and just attempt to normalize the state violence against them.” — Leah Litman [58:27]

10. Accountability & The ‘After Times’: What Comes Next?

[60:31–64:21]

Litman cautions Trump officials may rely on mass preemptive pardons or, more chillingly, believe Republicans’ electoral grip will never loosen. History shows Democrats have struggled to hold Trump administration actors accountable.
Wagner urges civic resolve: public outcry, protest, and political pressure offer hope for change.

Notable Quotes:

“Honestly, I also think they are telling themselves… that Democrats just don't have the spine... They would never actually hold anyone meaningfully, legally accountable.” — Leah Litman [61:39]
“If the Trump administration thinks that the citizenry will go quietly into this good night, I think they got something else coming for them.” — Alex Wagner [63:06]

Action Steps for Listeners

Demand Legislative Reform: Call for Congress to pass a "Bivens fix"—extending civil rights suit protections to those harmed by federal agents—and to abolish qualified immunity for ICE.
Document Abuses: The power of video evidence is real—keep recording as a form of accountability.
Support Your Community: Engage in local mutual aid, practical resistance, and solidarity with targeted communities.
Stay Engaged Politically: Pressure representatives for oversight, hearings, and legislative remedies.

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

“[The] Insurrection Act… is so rarely used… There are precisely zero circumstances on the ground that suggest Minnesota is anywhere near approaching that situation.” — Leah Litman [07:31]
“You should do that. Beyond that, I think it’s tough… There are ways that we as a community can support one another and protect the people who are most vulnerable.” — Leah Litman [13:10]
“This is very much part of their campaign to dehumanize their victims… You’ve lost all your rights, you’ve lost your humanity…” — Leah Litman [28:42]
“We can't count on the federal courts to always be there... We have to take a belt and suspenders approach…” — Leah Litman [50:25]
“If the Trump administration thinks that the citizenry will go quietly into this good night, I think they got something else coming for them.” — Alex Wagner [63:06]

Tone & Takeaway

For further action:

Call your representatives to demand a federal Bivens fix.
Record and report abuses.
Support local efforts resisting illegitimate federal violence.
Stay informed and engaged, because, as Litman says:

“There are specific asks you can make… in order to build a movement around and to organize people around.” [64:05]

(Summary excludes all advertisements and non-content sections.)

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What It Would Take to Rein in ICE

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Summary

Pod Save America — "What It Would Take to Rein in ICE"

Episode Overview

Main Topics and Key Insights

1. The Killing of Renee Nicole Goode and Its Fallout

2. The Insurrection Act: Limits and Dangers

3. Legal Tools and Levers for Communities and Individuals

4. Legal Barriers to Accountability for ICE Actions

5. Complexities of State and Local Resistance and Legal Recourse Against ICE

6. Collapse of Traditional Oversight and Justice Systems

7. Barriers to Suing Federal Agents; The Bivens Gap

8. The Courts as a ‘Bulwark’—Or Not

9. Broader Patterns: Assault on Civil Rights, Accountability, and Minorities

10. Accountability & The ‘After Times’: What Comes Next?

Action Steps for Listeners

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

Tone & Takeaway

Summary

Pod Save America — "What It Would Take to Rein in ICE"

Episode Overview

Main Topics and Key Insights

1. The Killing of Renee Nicole Goode and Its Fallout

2. The Insurrection Act: Limits and Dangers

3. Legal Tools and Levers for Communities and Individuals

4. Legal Barriers to Accountability for ICE Actions

5. Complexities of State and Local Resistance and Legal Recourse Against ICE

6. Collapse of Traditional Oversight and Justice Systems

7. Barriers to Suing Federal Agents; The Bivens Gap

8. The Courts as a ‘Bulwark’—Or Not

9. Broader Patterns: Assault on Civil Rights, Accountability, and Minorities

10. Accountability & The ‘After Times’: What Comes Next?

Action Steps for Listeners

Memorable Quotes & Timestamps

Tone & Takeaway