Pod Save the World – "From Al Qaeda to the White House"

Episode Date: November 12, 2025
Hosts: Tommy Vietor, Ben Rhodes
Main Guests: Tara Kabash & Josh Paul (A New Policy)

Overview

In this episode, Tommy Vietor and Ben Rhodes guide listeners through a whirlwind week in global affairs, focusing on dramatic developments such as the landmark White House visit by Syria’s new transitional president (a onetime Al Qaeda figure), Viktor Orban’s pitstop in DC, the US boycott of the G20 in South Africa over right-wing conspiracy, elections and protest crackdowns in Tanzania, Sudan’s deepening crisis, and more. The episode closes with an in-depth interview with Tara Kabash and Josh Paul, former Biden administration officials who resigned over Gaza policy and are now organizing for a transformative US policy on Israel and Palestine.

The hosts combine humor and outrage to break down the absurdities and gravely serious consequences of current US foreign policy, while spotlighting the intersections of domestic politics, international alliances, and human rights.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reagan Building Event: Mike Flynn & the State of US Institutions

• [02:39] Tommy opens with light banter about Mike Flynn and his organization sharing event space with Crooked Con. The hosts mock the incongruity and extremism of Flynn's post-government activities.
• Notable Quote:
  “He might have had us arrested by the marshal of the Supreme Court or something.”
  – Tommy Vietor [03:35]

2. Syrian President Ahmed Alshara Visits the White House

• Context: Ahmed Alshara, former Al Qaeda affiliate, now Syrian transitional president, makes a historic White House visit—an improbable journey from jihadist leader to statesman.

• [07:27] Tommy breaks down Shara’s rise, his first US presidential visit, and Trump’s attempts at normalization.

• [08:35] Sanctions relief: Trump announces a 6-month suspension of US sanctions under the Caesar Act, but Congressional holdups remain due to concerns over atrocities against minorities (e.g., the Druze massacre in July).

• The visit included discussion of possible diplomatic normalization (embassies, airbase access for the US) and Syria joining the anti-ISIS coalition.

• Notable Quotes:
  “It's just pretty extraordinary that he went from basically being in northern Syria around Idlib...to being in the White House in less than one year.”
  – Ben Rhodes [11:34]

  “...if we're going to get out of this war on terror page ...there's gonna have to be a place for Islamists.”
  – Ben Rhodes [13:33]

Insight:
The hosts debate the strategic and ethical stakes—highlighting the US tendency to prioritize counterterrorism and Israel above real Syrian reconstruction. They express cautious optimism about sanctions relief, but warn about authoritarian backsliding.

3. Viktor Orban’s Visit & American Right-wing Collusion

• [17:00] The Hungarian autocrat's DC trip is dissected, focusing on the US granting sanctions waivers and lucrative energy/nuclear deals after Orban’s anti-Ukraine stance.
• Trump delivers political boosts to allies on the global right-wing authoritarian circuit (Orban, Milei, Bukele), offering economic perks in exchange for loyalty.
• Notable Exchange:
  “...if you're one of Trump's guys...you get preferential treatment across the board, you get exemptions from sanctions.”
  – Ben Rhodes [19:39]
• The hosts note shady business connections, democratic backsliding, and media manipulation—especially Orban’s notorious anti-press antics toward the US and EU.

4. The US Boycotts G20—Racist Politics Over Substance

• [26:21] Trump administration’s boycott of the G20 summit in South Africa explained: motivated by right-wing conspiracy about “white genocide,” further ceding global leadership to China.
• US absence means lost opportunities to tackle major issues (e.g., AI norms, economic coordination), effectively handing leverage to China/BRICS.
• Notable Analysis:
  “We are just saying like Chinese, you run this meeting entirely...You built this whole alternative world order with the BRICS...Now we're literally taking something from our world order...and just saying over to you now.”
  – Ben Rhodes [27:47–30:48]

5. Crackdown in Tanzania: Gen Z Uprising Meets Old-school Repression

• [32:10+] Elections marred by massive fraud; lethal state violence against protesters; thousands killed or arrested.
• US and international actors largely ignore, reflective of global trend: “democratic backsliding” replaced by brute-force autocracy.
• Gen Z-led protest energy is growing, tied to economic frustration and rising youth population, especially acute in Africa.
• Memorable Observations:
  “There’s a ticking time bomb out there that, I mean, shit, I can feel in Los Angeles...but it’s nothing compared to Dar es Salaam, Tanzania or Nigeria...”
  – Ben Rhodes [39:09]

6. Sudan’s Darfur Crisis Escalates: Famine, Massacres, and International Apathy

• [39:59] RSF’s seizure of Al Fashr leads to atrocities reminiscent of Rwanda. UAE implicated in arming genocidal forces for gold profits.
• Humanitarian work is hamstrung with the US (and rival powers) disengaged. Extreme malnutrition, displacement, and family separations described in a powerful audio dispatch from NRC Sudan ([42:17]).
• Notable Quotes:
  “It’s just unimaginably awful...If you’re looking to like donate...the need is just enormous.”
  – Tommy Vietor [43:29]
• Hosts bemoan moral abdication by “realists” everywhere:
  “There’s a space to kind of reclaim some basis of morality in politics. Nobody tries anymore.”
  – Ben Rhodes [45:34]

7. Peace Watch: Trump, the ‘Peace President’—or Not

• [50:23+] A recap of violence and instability on Trump’s watch: failed peace deals, renewed nuclear tensions, regional conflagrations (e.g. Venezuela, Thailand-Cambodia, India-Pakistan), and US-British intelligence cooperation fracturing.
• Notable Commentary:
  “He never solves them. He just wants the photo op...He’s betting on the kind of stupidity or short attention span of most of the American media.”
  – Ben Rhodes [52:48]
• India-Pakistan tensions, in particular, flagged as serious risks the Trump administration is failing to defuse.

8. Trump vs. the BBC: Media, Lawsuits, and Global Pressure on Journalists

• [56:22+] Trump sues the BBC for $1 billion over a misleadingly edited documentary, triggering resignations and public apologies.
• Segment serves as a microcosm for right-wing attacks on independent journalism, with Brexit-era right joining Trump to undermine foundational institutions.
• Notable Quotes:
  “It feels like we’re globalizing our own media drama and that makes me sad.”
  – Ben Rhodes [63:44]

9. Saudi Arabia’s ‘The Line’—Techno-Utopian Fail

• [64:40+] A deep dive into MBS’s “Line” project: planned megacity devolves into logistical, economic, and human rights disaster.
• Intense critique of autocratic vanity projects and Silicon Valley’s ‘authoritarian-curious’ consulting class; environmental and social destruction highlighted.
• Memorable Anecdotes:
  “Who the fuck would want to live in a wall in the middle of the desert?”
  – Ben Rhodes [70:27]
  • The project’s absurdities, such as the impossible high-speed rail plan, serve as a parable of unchecked power and hubris.

Interview: Tara Kabash & Josh Paul – On Resigning Over Gaza, Reforming US Mideast Policy

Background & Why They Quit

• [75:15+] Both resigned from the Biden administration to protest US Gaza policy (Josh: State Dept security assistance; Tara: Department of Education).

• Key Themes:

  • The lack of genuine debate inside the government.
  • US policy driven by special interests, not law or values.
  • Disillusionment in being unable to prevent injustices from inside.

• Personal Moment:
  “There was a particular moment. It was minutes after the first hospital got bombed...I realized, there was no amount of humanizing myself within the administration...my voice didn’t actually matter.”
  – Tara Kabash [86:22]

Analysis of US Gaza Policy (under Trump)

• [75:40+] The Trump administration’s so-called Gaza ‘ceasefire’ and reconstruction deal is critiqued as American “inputs coming from the wrong quarters”—business interests, outside imposed governance, echoing past failures in Iraq.
• American leverage (economic, military, diplomatic) is not used to rein in Israeli policies or defend even US citizens’ rights.

The Problem of Unconditional Israel Support

• [81:43+] US policy is “captured by special interests”—massive bipartisan reluctance to challenge Israel or enforce US/intl. law.
• Americans increasingly oppose this; it’s becoming a “litmus test” in both Democratic and Republican politics.

A New Policy—The Organization’s Mission

• Kabash and Paul have founded a political organization (not a think tank) to disrupt the “establishment duopoly,” push for real US leverage, and support candidates willing to challenge the lobby structure (especially AIPAC).
• Anyone can volunteer or support at act.anewpolicy.org/podsave.

On the Rising Right and Suppressing Dissent

• Conversation about how suppressing open debate is fueling antisemitic or conspiratorial movements on right and left; the importance of refusing to shut down legitimate criticism.

Settler Violence, Arms, and Legal Complicity

• [101:21+] Extensive documentation that US weapons are fueling West Bank settler violence. State Department reluctance, and White House overruling, are noted.

• Quote:
  “We all have skin in the game because we're Americans.”
  – Ben Rhodes [104:56]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It's hard to put yourself back into the place of what a gigantic disaster Syria was for such a long period of time...It's pretty extraordinary that he went from ... governing a small slice of land to being in the White House in less than one year.”
  – Ben Rhodes [11:34]

• “There's a ticking time bomb...just going to break at some point. I mean, Elon Musk just became a trillionaire. And yet you've got people that have to go to Saudi Arabia and endure that.”
  – Ben Rhodes [39:09]

• “There's space to reclaim some basis of morality in politics. Nobody tries anymore. ...We should value human dignity, human life around the world.”
  – Ben Rhodes [45:34]

• “It feels like we’re globalizing our own media drama and that makes me sad.”
  – Ben Rhodes [63:44]

• “ICE trains with the IDF. These policies always end up coming back...”
  – Ben Rhodes [106:14]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Syria, Sanctions Waiver, and Ahmed Alshara: [07:27]–[16:38]
• Viktor Orban in DC: [17:00]–[22:57]
• G20 Boycott Over ‘White Genocide’: [26:21]–[31:30]
• Tanzania Crackdown and Gen Z Uprisings: [32:10]–[38:05]
• Sudan’s Darfur Crisis: [39:59]–[47:47]
• Trump’s "Peace" Record & New Conflicts: [50:23]–[56:20]
• Trump Sues BBC, Global Media Pressure: [56:22]–[64:40]
• Saudi Arabia’s “The Line” Disaster: [64:40]–[72:30]
• Interview: Tara Kabash & Josh Paul: [75:15]–[108:24]

Conclusion

This episode blends dark comedy with urgent analysis, laying bare how US politics, right-wing power, and unchecked foreign adventurism shape everything from government appointments to global crises. The interview segment gives tangible next steps for listeners who want to shift US policy away from unconditional military aid and toward human rights and accountability.

To Take Action or Learn More:
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