Pod Save the World: Introducing “Runaway Country with Alex Wagner”

Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Alex Wagner (with Tommy Vietor intro)
Featured Guests: Judge Anam Rahman Petit, Andrew Weissmann

Overview

This episode of "Pod Save the World" introduces Crooked Media’s new series, “Runaway Country,” hosted by veteran journalist Alex Wagner. The premiere addresses the real-life impacts of authoritarian shifts in American government, particularly focusing on the Trump administration’s aggressive overhaul of the justice system and immigration courts. Wagner weaves together on-the-ground voices, expert interviews, and first-hand accounts to expose a justice system under assault, the erosion of constitutional norms, and what this all means for the most vulnerable Americans.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Purpose and Vision of "Runaway Country"

• Wagner’s Approach:
  Wagner emphasizes delivering the stories of people deeply affected by political developments—moving past the “numbness” of news cycles to capture lived experiences.
  • “This show is about shaking that up. …to better understand the seemingly incomprehensible moment we all happen to be living through.” (Alex Wagner, 02:08)
• Not Another Simplistic Rural Dispatch:
  The show will highlight nuanced, diverse American experiences, not just focus on “Trump country” stereotypes.

2. America in Crisis: The State of Government and the Rule of Law

• Escalation under Trump:
  • National Guard in blue cities, civilians "snatched off the street," and public institutions like the White House being corporatized.
  • “National Guard troops are invading blue cities, citizens are being snatched off the street…” (Wagner, 01:24)
• Theme of Institutional Erosion:
  • Chronicling the deliberate breakdown in the separation of politics and the courts.
  • “It feels like we are in an inverted America where justice has basically left the building.” (Wagner, 02:43)

3. The Assault on the Department of Justice

• Trump’s Legal Assaults:
  • Replacing DOJ officials with loyalists.
  • Using lawsuits to target critics (e.g., James Comey, Letitia James, Andrew Weissmann).
  • New York Times report: Trump demands DOJ compensate him $230 million for investigations—an unprecedented, self-serving move (05:15).
• Personal Targeting:
  • Andrew Weissmann shares his experience being personally singled out by Trump (intro, foreshadowing further interview).

4. Inside the Broken Immigration Courts

Interview: Judge Anam Rahman Petit (07:29–23:28)

• Atmosphere of Fear and Chaos:
  • ICE agents, often masked, detaining people at or near courts, creating terror for families and witnesses.
  • “It widens… you have this, like you said, heart wrenching, traumatizing incident that's occurring and disrupting what is supposed to be happening.” (Petit, 08:52)
• Impact on Due Process:
  • Judges feel unprotected; lack of bailiffs or security; masked ICE agents could be anyone.
  • ICE agents are “hiring at such a fast clip” that the faces become interchangeable (Rahman Petit, 11:20).
• Systemic Sabotage:
  • “They're trying to break the system so that they're able to implement whatever reforms they see fit, which will be at the expense of due process.” (Petit, 16:55)
  • Trump administration fired over 83 immigration judges; backlog nears 4 million cases, leading to absurd caseloads (one judge for up to 42,000 cases).
• Replacement of Judges:
  • Qualified, experienced immigration judges replaced with less-experienced military lawyers, raising alarm about impartiality and legal expertise (Alex Wagner, 16:09; Petit, 22:17).

Notable Quotes:

• “I had one of the first detentions in the country… I have to have a conversation with his sobbing, wailing mother, …through a Spanish interpreter…” (Petit, 13:08)
• “Any public trust or confidence that people had in the immigration court system and rule of law in general…has greatly eroded.” (Petit, 22:22)
• “It was a dream job for me, but I would be so reluctant to accept that job again because…now it's just anchored in instability.” (Petit, 22:55)

5. Contextualizing the Crisis: Expert Analysis

Interview: Andrew Weissmann (27:29–end)

• Judicial Hollowing:
  • Firing judges makes no sense unless the goal is to break the system or staff it with loyalists.
  • “You want people in there who are just going to do your bidding and you're going to have the veneer of due process without the actual due process.” (Weissmann, 28:30)
• Potential for Unintended Consequences:
  • Some military lawyers may resist these pressures, as was the case with attorney Mr. Reveni (31:38).
• The Broader Threat:
  • Erosion of trust in justice is the point—targeting minorities, immigrants, and adversaries to stoke apathy or acceptance among the public.
  • On Trump’s $230 million DOJ demand: “Why doesn't he just go rob Fort Knox?” (Weissmann, 40:05)
• Demoralization within DOJ:
  • “For the career people who are still there, it is the most demoralizing thing ever.” (Weissmann, 44:48)
  • Many career federal prosecutors refuse to participate in political prosecutions.
• Decisions with Human Costs:
  • “Sometimes you need an example of one to make people understand the systemic…like you're having on a judge who's been fired so they can sort of put a face to a huge problem.” (Weissmann, 47:41)
• Chilling Effects and Corruption:
  • DOJ leadership’s willingness to sign off on patently corrupt actions is a core symptom of the problem.
  • "The fact that we may never have a free and fair election again... I am particularly worried about whether we will ever have..." (Weissmann, 65:45)
• Personal Targeting by Trump:
  • While being attacked can be personally frightening, Weissmann avoids making himself “the story”—a value he sees eroding across journalism and the courts as institutions themselves become targets.

Memorable Quotes:

• “The system as it is now cannot hold.” (Wagner, on immigration system, 06:00)
• “It's my view, if it goes forward, it's theft from the American public. ...You're creating victims.” (Weissmann, 46:34)
• “Let’s just remember this is our money. The funds that would be used. …This is not Qatar giving him money.” (Weissmann, 42:29)
• “Facts matter. ...Go listen to it and see just how, you know, how incendiary it was.” (Weissmann, on his Jack Smith interview, 64:13)
• On the American public’s response: “I actually think Americans do care about that.” (Weissmann, 34:13)
• “[Trump] is currently a convicted felon. …And so we’re not dealing with the most upstanding person.” (Weissmann, 67:17–68:44)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• [00:00–01:12]: Tommy Vietor Intro—Context and Alex Wagner's credentials.
• [01:13–04:29]: Wagner’s setup—State of the nation, purpose of the show, preview of DOJ/immigration judicial crisis.
• [07:29–23:28]: Main interview—Judge Anam Rahman Petit describes the chaos, fear, and consequences of purge in immigration judiciary.
• [27:17–69:39]: Interview—Andrew Weissmann contextualizes the institutional impacts, public trust, legal tactics, and shares personal experience being targeted.
• [40:05–44:00]: Discussion on the sheer corruption of Trump’s $230 million DOJ compensation demand—memorable “rob Fort Knox” exchange.
• [65:45–68:54]: Weissmann's deeper worries—prospects for rule of law, elections, and the future of democracy.

Tone & Style

The conversation is urgent but clear-eyed, with Wagner’s incisive reporting balanced by empathy and directness. Both Wagner and Weissmann foreground the real human cost of systemic changes, resisting both false equivalence and defeatism. The personal stories are wrenching, but the analysis is rigorous, often darkly humorous when discussing the absurdities of the current political climate.

Conclusion

"Runaway Country" launches as a necessary, unflinching look at America’s institutional unraveling through the eyes of those experiencing and resisting it. Wagner’s commitment to elevating underrepresented voices gives the show its backbone, while legal experts like Weissmann explain the stakes for democracy itself. Both the systemic story and the personal testimonies converge to ask: if justice can be so easily subverted, what kind of country will emerge at the other end?

Listen to “Runaway Country with Alex Wagner” to hear these voices firsthand, subscribe, and share your own story at runawaycountry@crooked.com.