Pod Save the World

Episode: “Israel Bombs Hamas Leaders in Qatar”

Date: September 9, 2025
Hosts: Tommy Vietor & Ben Rhodes
Guest Interview: Susan Rice

Episode Overview

In this urgent and wide-ranging episode, Tommy Vietor and Ben Rhodes examine an unprecedented escalation in the Middle East: Israel's airstrike targeting Hamas leaders in Doha, Qatar. They break down the complex implications for diplomacy, regional alliances, hostage negotiations, and the future of international law, while also covering far-reaching global developments—European political crises, explosive protests in Nepal and Indonesia, and the mounting risk of US military action in Venezuela. The episode features an in-depth interview with former National Security Advisor Susan Rice on the transformation of the US military under Trump and the erosion of democratic norms.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Israeli Airstrike on Hamas in Qatar

What happened?

• On Tuesday, the Israeli Defense Forces bombed a building in Doha, Qatar, reportedly targeting senior Hamas political leadership who were meeting to discuss a ceasefire and hostage deal brokered by the US (00:46).
• It remains unclear how many were killed. Israel gave the US a heads-up only after missiles were fired (07:03).

Regional and Diplomatic Fallout

• Qatar condemned the bombing as "a blatant violation of all international laws and norms" (08:08).
• The move jeopardizes ongoing ceasefire and hostage negotiations. Qatar suspended all talks in response (09:00).
• Multiple countries condemned the attack, and Americans in Doha were told to temporarily shelter in place.
• Israel is now regularly conducting airstrikes in Gaza, the West Bank, Iran, Lebanon, Syria, potentially even Tunisia, and now Qatar.

Historical Context

• Netanyahu has previously encouraged Qatar to fund Hamas, believing it would divide Palestinian leadership and hinder statehood.
• Qatar allowed Hamas' political office in Doha at the request of past US administrations to facilitate negotiations.

Analysis

• The attack effectively kills the diplomatic process for a ceasefire:

  “Israel did not accept a ceasefire proposal. That's bullshit... they bomb the people that were engaged in the ceasefire talks. This isn’t even the first time that's happened.” – Ben, [11:04]

• Both Qatar and the US have been humiliated and placed in a precarious position regionally.
• There are fears among Arab Gulf states and their leaders of further Israeli overreach and of domestic instability in response.

Consequences for Hostages

• Israeli families with hostages in Gaza are outraged and fear the move is a “death sentence,” as Hamas’ only leverage is harming hostages (14:38).
• Hamas officials reportedly suspected the US deal was a setup to target them, further deepening mistrust (15:31).

US and Trump Administration Response

• White House Press Secretary, Caroline Levitt, released an inconsistent statement condemning the attack but also justifying it:

  "Unilaterally bombing inside Qatar, a sovereign nation and close ally of the United States... does not advance Israel or America’s goals. However, eliminating Hamas… is a worthy goal." – Levitt, [16:04]

• Tommy summarized:

  “Just completely incoherent. They're trying to play both sides... there will be no consequences.” – Tommy, [17:14]

Escalation Risks

• Israel may expand operations to Turkey, a NATO member, threatening broader regional conflict (14:25).

2. Israeli Attack on Gaza Flotilla near Tunisia

• Reports (but not confirmed by Tunisian government) that Israel struck a flotilla ship headed to Gaza at a Tunisian port (19:21).
• The GSF flotilla included participants from 44 countries, UN officials, activists such as Greta Thunberg and Nelson Mandela’s grandson.
• If true, it’s part of a pattern of Israel feeling “complete impunity” for cross-border military action.

Quote

“We’re in a place where countries like Russia and Israel feel complete impunity for how they use military force.” – Ben, [21:06]

3. Terror Attack in Jerusalem

• On Monday, a mass shooting at a Jerusalem bus stop left six dead.
• Hamas initially praised but did not claim the attack; later, its military wing took responsibility (22:27).
• Hosts fear an overwhelming and retaliatory Israeli response is likely, with more violence in the West Bank.

Quote

“Violence begets more violence… if you kill tens of thousands of children and turn Gaza to rubble, there’s going to be reprisals.” – Ben, [23:33]

4. European Political Upheaval: UK and France

United Kingdom

• Labour government cabinet reshuffle after Deputy PM Angela Rayner resigns over a tax issue—while far-right Reform UK party (led by Nigel Farage) is surging in the polls (31:19).
• Hosts criticize Labour’s self-sabotaging ethical rigidity and the chaotic way British cabinet posts are rotated.

France

• Government collapses after PM Francois Bayrou loses a confidence vote; Macron remains deeply unpopular (38:59).
• Far-right National Rally party (Jordan Bardella/Marine Le Pen) leading in the polls.

Broader Trend

• Center-left parties struggling, far-right on the rise across Europe (UK, France, Germany).

Quotes

“The fact that we are holding ourselves to this perfect ethical standard as center-left parties while fighting people that follow no rule book is the dumbest fucking thing imaginable.” – Ben, [32:34]

5. Protests in Nepal and Indonesia

Nepal

• Triggered by a government social media ban, massive protests erupt, quickly escalating after police violence leaves at least 19 dead.
• Protesters storm parliament, burn homes of officials (40:53).
• Underlying drivers: unemployment, inflation, glaring inequality, and outrage at elitism and corruption.

Indonesia

• Protests over politicians’ excessive housing allowances—sparked further after a delivery driver is killed by police; at least 10 dead (44:28).
• President Prabowo forced several resignations under pressure.

Analysis

• Both cases seen as examples of a global trend: rising popular anger at corruption, economic hardship, and elite impunity, fueled by social media.

6. Potential US Military Escalation in Venezuela

• The US has built up forces in the Caribbean—Navy warships, Marines, F-35s—nominally to fight drug cartels, but rhetoric and assets suggest regime change ambitions (50:09).
• White House advisor Stephen Miller frames Venezuela’s government as a “drug cartel,” laying the groundwork for intervention (52:16).

Quotes

“They’re using language to prepare the ground for a regime change type war… You could insert ‘terrorists’ and you get the War on Terror.” – Ben, [52:16] “This is about turning the military into an instrument of Trump’s power ... the war might be popular the first day... and then you look up in a couple years and people are like, why the fuck are we in this place?” – Ben, [55:17]

7. Other Global Developments (Rapid-fire)

• US-South Korea tensions after the arrest of Korean workers building a battery plant in Georgia (58:01).
• Japanese PM stepping down after electoral defeat (58:44).
• Bolsonaro’s trial and fresh instability in Brazil amid perceived US interference (59:02).
• The sense is of rising instability and risk, especially under current US policies.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the destruction of diplomacy:

  "[This] literally buries the diplomatic process. What Bibi wants to do is perpetuate the war... and ethnically cleanse Gaza. We're entering an even more ominous and catastrophic humanitarian circumstance." – Ben, [11:04]

• On international law:

  “There’s absolutely no legal basis for this, but the fact that’s an afterthought just shows you how dead the international order is.” – Ben, [10:04]

• On the Abraham Accords:

  “The reason you and I always hated people calling the Abraham Accords a peace deal is because it wasn’t.” – Tommy, [19:21]

• On the response to Israel’s attacks:

  “If we were talking about any other country doing this… the international community would be talking about no-fly zones and airstrikes… NATO intervention.” – Tommy, [27:08]

Interview Highlight: Susan Rice (63:01–88:53)

Military in American Cities

• Trump’s domestic deployments of ICE and military have little to do with crime, more with intimidation and staging power over cities with Black mayors.

  “What Trump is doing… is about power. It’s about domination, intimidation, and turning the United States into a lawless, autocratic state where one man behaves as king.” – Susan Rice, [64:16]

Transformation of US Military

• Systematic purge of senior officers (notably minorities), and installation of partisan loyalty tests under Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth.
• The renaming to “Department of War” signals a militarization of US society and a shift of focus from external threats (Russia/China) to domestic and Western Hemisphere interventions.
• Loss of military independence, erosion of professionalism and morale, and a move toward a Roman “legion” approach to hemispheric dominance (70:59–74:09).

On Ukraine and Gaza Diplomacy

• US policy is undermining NATO and Western alliances; India is drifting into Russia/China’s embrace due to Trump tariffs.
• Trump has limited Ukraine’s ability to defend itself, while enabling Russian advances.
• The Israeli strike in Qatar may be the "death knell" for Gaza ceasefire talks; hostages and civilians face ever-greater tragedy.

  “Israel's become accustomed to thinking it can bomb any country in the region with impunity because it is gotten away with it and often with the support of the United States.” – Susan Rice, [85:33] “The war seems to have nothing to do anymore with destroying Hamas... It seems to be collective punishment and demolition.” – Susan Rice, [86:46]

Important Timestamps

• Main story intro: 04:38
• Details of Israeli strike: 06:46–13:13
• US/Trump response: 16:04–17:31
• On Gaza Flotilla potential attack: 19:21–21:38
• Jerusalem terror attack: 22:27–23:33
• Spain sanctions on Israel: 24:36–27:27
• UK & France politics: 31:19–40:16
• Nepal and Indonesia protests: 40:53–46:54
• US war footing in Venezuela: 50:09–57:15
• Susan Rice interview: 63:01–88:53

Summary Takeaways

• The Israeli strike in Qatar represents a new phase of regional instability—with diplomatic, humanitarian, and legal consequences, and signals the further breakdown of international norms.
• The episode paints a dire picture: increasing normalization of extraterritorial violence, sharp escalation risks, and the hollowing out of international order.
• Evidence of systemic trouble in democracies globally—center-left collapse, far-right ascendance, and the repressive use of power at home and abroad.
• Under Trump, US foreign and military policy are shifting sharply toward autocracy, repression, and interventionism in the Western Hemisphere.
• Solutions proposed include meaningful international sanctions, genuine pressure on US allies, and vigilance against democratic backsliding at home.

Tone

Wry, urgent, darkly humorous, but deadly serious about the stakes—particularly on questions of democracy, humanitarian principle, and global stability.

For listeners or readers seeking to understand the magnitude of recent developments in the Middle East—and their wider global consequences—this is essential, eye-opening analysis.