Pod Save the World: "Trump Dances Across Asia"
Episode Date: October 29, 2025
Hosts: Tommy Vietor & Ben Rhodes
Special Guest: Mike McFaul (from 1:12:42)
Episode Overview
This episode focuses on Donald Trump’s current foreign policy moves during his trip across Asia, covering the diplomatic performances, supposed trade breakthroughs, accompanying corruption, mounting global crises, media transparency at the Pentagon, and the implications of ongoing wars in Sudan, Gaza, and Venezuela. The hosts also break down rising autocracy worldwide in a substantive discussion with expert guest Mike McFaul.
Key Themes & Summary
1. Trump’s Asia Trip: Theater, “Deals,” and Diplomatic Dance (02:42–15:32)
- Strange Pageantry: The episode opens with Tommy and Ben lampooning viral footage of Trump awkwardly dancing and being led at a Japanese state ceremony.
- Ben Rhodes (04:55): “He tried to walk into the band and then had to be led in the other direction... It made Joe Biden look like a brisk young teenager by comparison.”
- ASEAN “Peace” and Trade Deals: Trump's supposed peacemaking between Thailand-Cambodia is dismissed as performative, as is a China-US trade breakthrough that largely restores the pre-Trump status quo.
- Tommy Vietor (06:44): “The main event was kind of this victory lap. Trump wanted to take over what the administration insists is a peace deal... but in reality is more of just, you know, the latest ceasefire in a long standing border dispute that is not really resolved.”
- Ben Rhodes (08:24): “He puts us through things to then arrive at these fake victories... Trump starting a fire, and then he and a bunch of countries have to, like, put out the fire just to return to how things were before.”
- Trump and Xi—Tariffs and Taiwan Concerns:
- Trump is credited for ending tariffs and rare earth restrictions, yet as Ben notes, "the Chinese have like a very clear agenda... as long as Trump gets like the announcement, they don’t have to do anything beyond that." (14:00)
- Tommy Vietor (12:26): Notes worry over whether Trump will “soften on Taiwan” if Xi offers economic carrots.
2. Corruption on Parade: Pardons for Crypto Billionaires, Don Jr’s Profiteering (15:46–29:09)
- Trump’s Pardon for Binance CEO “CZ”:
- Pardoned despite admissions of money laundering linked to terrorist organizations; process tied to $2B Emirati investment in Trump family crypto startup, likely providing up to $80M/year.
- Donald Trump (17:19): “I do pardon a lot of people I don't know... as I was told, I don't know him... I gave him a pardon at the request of a lot of very good people.”
- Ben Rhodes (20:02): “One of the things that people are missing about this is the message it sends... you are creating essentially a dark currency... Trump is doing is sending a message… you are beyond the reach of the law. Or, you know, frankly, you can buy your way out of trouble.”
- Don Jr Profiting Off Government Contracts:
- Donald Trump Jr. received 200,000 shares (~$4M) in drone manufacturer Unusual Machines, which soon won a $350M Army contract; he is also investing in multiple defense/AI firms now winning Pentagon deals.
- Tommy Vietor (28:00): “Don Jr. Bragged about helping vet candidates for jobs at the Pentagon. He was like talk about it on his podcast... imagine if in the future... a US Service member is relying on support from a drone... and it fails because Don Jr. Advises the company."
- Ben Rhodes (28:16): “You're just creating a feedback loop. Decisions that Donald Trump can make in office immediately generate a profit for the Trump family business interest.”
3. Undermining Accountability: Pentagon Press Corps Purge (31:13–39:21)
- Press Restrictions: New Pentagon rules lead to mass walkout of legacy defense reporters; “new” credentialed press are partisan and fringe outlets (Turning Point USA, Timcast, Lindell TV).
- Tommy Vietor (32:20): “Pentagon has issued a series of new rules... the gist was it basically told reporters that they could have their badges stripped for doing the job of being a reporter.”
- Ben Rhodes (35:09): “These outlets make Fox News look like... Walter Cronkite. The Mike Lindell MyPillow media conglomerate... This is literally creating a fake press corps.”
4. Mounting Global Crises: Sudan, Venezuela, Gaza, and More
A. Sudan: Civil War and Outside Enablers (42:21–50:22)
- RSF Takes Darfur: The brutal Rapid Support Forces overran the key city of Al Fasher, with fears of mass killings. The UAE, a US “peace partner,” is arming RSF with Chinese drones and weapons.
- Tommy Vietor (45:44): “…the scale of suffering in Sudan, especially in Darfur, is just unimaginable…when you write about the UAE being some peacemaker because of the Abraham Accords, please mention this.”
- Ben Rhodes (46:44): “If the world came together and was like, this has to end. The RSF has to, like, nobody armed the RSF. They couldn't sustain themselves…”
- US Inaction: Pressure is not being placed on UAE to curtail its support, despite evidence, across multiple administrations.
B. Venezuela: Brewing War for Political Gain (50:22–57:50)
- US Bombing Campaigns & Regime Change Signals: Trump escalating attacks on vessels, likely as pretext to topple Maduro (and appease Florida hardliners like Marco Rubio).
- Rand Paul (52:24): “At this point, I would call them extrajudicial killings. And this is akin to what China does... they summarily execute people without presenting evidence…”
- Ben Rhodes (56:07): “…he's creating this illusion of, oh, look at Trump, he's such a peacemaker. Well, not only is he not solving the big conflicts like Sudan, like Ukraine, like Gaza… but he's launching potentially regime change wars in Latin America.”
C. Gaza: Ceasefire Fraying (58:26–61:08)
- Ceasefire in Name Only: Ongoing violence despite nominal ceasefire agreement.
- Ben Rhodes (60:01): “It only feels like a ‘ceasefire’ compared to like the apocalyptic violence that was taking place particularly against Palestinians before this.”
D. Argentina: Interference Pays (61:08–65:17)
- Trump’s $40B Bailout as Election Interference: US funding boosts President Milei, with explicit threats to cut it off if he loses.
- Ben Rhodes (63:17): “Imagine if a Democratic president was like, hey, we like the socialist president in Colombia or Mexico, we're gonna give them $40 billion and tell people that if you don't vote for them, this money's going away.”
E. Canadian Trade War over Reagan Ad (65:01–68:32)
- Trump imposes 10% tariffs on Canada over a TV ad quoting Ronald Reagan in support of free trade; reveals impulsive and personalistic nature of Trump’s trade policies.
5. Interview: Mike McFaul on Autocracy, Trump, and Geopolitics (01:12:42–01:36:59)
A. The Global Autocracy vs. Democracy Battle
- Mike McFaul (1:13:50): “In the battle between the autocrats and Democrats, the autocrats are rising compared to 30 years ago. They're more organized, they're helping each other ... But the biggest problem ... after Donald Trump ... he has begun to a erode our democratic institutions at home. ... On the foreign policy area and international arena, Donald Trump doesn't think in terms of autocrats versus Democrats. He thinks in terms of strong leaders versus weak leaders, in his mind, and leaders that say nice things about him versus leaders that don't.”
- US position is ambiguous under Trump, both domestically (erosion of norms) and abroad (transactional, not values-based).
B. On Russia, Ukraine, Sanctions, and Trump’s Tactics
- Sanctions: Incremental sanctions on Russia less effective than a big-bang approach (1:17:16), and have not achieved war-ending goals.
- Trump’s Approach: At Alaska summit, Trump’s negotiation method was to collect Putin’s asks and pressure Ukraine to concede—emboldened Putin’s demands. (1:79:02)
- Mike McFaul (1:79:02): “...what Putin took away from that is he just kept upping the ante...”
- Supplying Ukraine: So-called “game changer” weapon systems have not ended the war; McFaul argues US must break the incremental approach and signal commitment, including by sending Tomahawks (1:83:59).
C. Nuclear Treaties, Medvedev’s Transformation, and Lessons for US Corruption
- US-Russia Arms Treaties: Proud of New START but laments current breakdown; Trump’s “Withdrawal Doctrine” is dangerous.
- Trump cares about “good meetings” with Putin more than US interests (1:84:37).
- Medvedev: Once reasonable and open, now an “unhinged” nationalist, showing the pressure to out-do Kremlin hardliners after losing influence (1:87:25).
- Navalny, Corruption, and Autocracy: Autocrats' greatest threat is credible anti-corruption opposition, whether in Russia or the US; independent media is crucial to expose abuses of power (1:91:02).
D. How to Prevent a Real New Cold War with China and Russia
- McFaul: “I do not think war with China is inevitable ... we need to be working with the Chinese on climate change. ... I think Trump is wrong [on isolationism]. ... Our most enduring allies have always been democracies, and the countries threatening us have always been autocracies. So it's not only the right thing to do, but it's also the smart thing to do.” (1:93:42)
Notable Quotes
“He puts us through things to then arrive at these fake victories... Trump starting a fire, and then he and a bunch of countries have to, like, put out the fire just to return to how things were before.”
– Ben Rhodes (08:24)
“Don Jr. Bragged about helping vet candidates for jobs at the Pentagon... imagine if in the future... a US Service member is relying on support from a drone... and it fails because Don Jr. Advises the company....”
– Tommy Vietor (28:00)
“...you are creating essentially a dark currency... Trump is doing is sending a message… you are beyond the reach of the law. Or, you know, frankly, you can buy your way out of trouble.”
– Ben Rhodes (20:02, on Trump’s crypto pardons)
“What Trump is doing is sending a message ... that you are beyond the reach of the law. Or, you know, frankly, you can buy your way out of trouble, buy the right investments if you get in trouble.”
– Ben Rhodes (20:10)
"If the world came together and was like, this has to end. The RSF has to, like, nobody armed the RSF. They couldn't sustain themselves. Right. It would end."
– Ben Rhodes (46:44, on Sudan)
“At this point, I would call them extrajudicial killings. And this is akin to what China does to Iran does with drug dealers. They summarily execute people without presenting evidence...”
– Rand Paul (52:24, on US attacks in Venezuela campaign)
"Our most enduring allies have always been democracies, and the countries threatening us have always been autocracies. So it's not only the right thing to do, but it's also the smart thing to do."
– Mike McFaul (1:96:00)
Timestamps for Major Segments
| Timestamp | Topic/Quote/Section | |-------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:42–06:44 | Trump’s Asia trip: dance gaffes, trade “victories”, diplomatic theater | | 06:44–15:32 | Vietnam/Thailand/Cambodia “peace,” Japan visit, China trade ceasefire | | 15:46–22:59 | Crypto corruption: CZ Binance pardon, pay-to-play corrupt pardons | | 25:27–29:09 | Don Jr defense contracts, meritocracy satire, billionaire military pay | | 31:13–39:21 | Pentagon press restrictions, MAGA press corps, implications for accountability | | 42:21–50:22 | Sudan civil war worsening, UAE fueling genocide, western inaction | | 50:22–57:50 | Venezuela: “drug war” as regime change pretext, congressional dissent | | 58:26–61:08 | Gaza: phony ceasefire, violence continues | | 61:08–65:17 | Argentina election: US political interference, Milei bailouts | | 65:01–68:32 | Canadian trade war over Reagan ad, Trump’s ego-driven tariffs | | 1:12:42–1:36:59 | Mike McFaul interview: autocracy vs democracy, Trump’s global impact |
Tone & Style
True to Pod Save the World’s reputation—irreverent, biting, analytical, and at times darkly comic. The hosts combine political snark ("Katy Perry and Trudeau? There's a reason to tariff Canada!") with deep policy knowledge and serious alarm at cascading global crises and US corruption.
For Listeners Who Missed the Episode
This episode will get you up to speed on:
- The emptiness behind Trump’s “peacemaking” and trade victories
- Systemic and growing corruption at the intersection of Trump’s business and government
- How the Pentagon is purging independent press for propaganda outlets
- Why crises like Sudan’s genocide, Venezuela, and Gaza are growing more dire amidst distraction
- How US global leadership and even its military are increasingly for sale
- How autocrats are rising and collaborating worldwide, and what’s at stake if US democracy continues to erode
The Mike McFaul interview is essential listening for unpacking the historical context, and for realistic hope that democratic values and alliances can still matter—if defended with clarity, unity, and principle.
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