Pod Save the World – "Trump Rug Pulls Ukraine"
Date: October 22, 2025
Hosts: Tommy Vietor, Ben Rhodes
Featured Guests: Anthony Amore (Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum), Noah Schnall, Jasper Nathaniel, Yuki Tatsumi
Episode Overview
In this episode, Tommy Vietor and Ben Rhodes break down a whirlwind week in global politics, focusing on the disastrous Trump-Zelensky meeting, the escalating U.S. military posture towards Venezuela, developments in Gaza and the West Bank, the rise of Japan's first female prime minister, international scandals from the Epstein files, and the impacts of slashing U.S. foreign aid. The show brings firsthand experiences from guests who faced Israeli state violence, and ends with an in-depth interview about the headline-making Louvre jewel heist.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Trump-Zelensky Meeting Meltdown
[05:48–16:08]
- Disastrous Encounter: Financial Times reports Trump screamed at Zelensky, echoed Putin’s demands for Ukraine to cede all of Donbas, and dismissed military briefings, physically throwing maps aside.
- Trump quote (from FT): “Sick of seeing this red line. I don’t even know where this is. I’ve never been there.”
- Putin Alignment: Trump parrots Russian “special operation” language, not even calling it a war.
- Budapest Summit Looms: After speaking with Putin, Trump promises to meet him in Hungary, site of the Budapest Memorandum (which promised Ukraine’s sovereignty in exchange for nuclear disarmament — now “a stab in the back”).
- Ben Rhodes: "He's asking them to fly to Budapest, where they last got fucked on their sovereignty, give away 20% of their country, and declare it peace." [10:30]
- U.S. Policy Flip-Flop: Trump’s signals swing almost entirely from promising support (Tomahawk missiles) to pressuring Ukraine to accept defeat.
Memorable Quote:
Ben Rhodes: "His ‘peace’ is just ‘the Russians win on their terms and Israel wins on their terms ... Might makes right, the stronger party gets everything they want.’" [09:35]
2. High Risk of U.S. Military Action in Venezuela
[16:08–29:39]
- Military Build-Up: Over 10% of U.S. naval assets now reportedly in SouthCom (Caribbean, South America). Secret CIA authorizations for covert actions, confirmed by Trump himself.
- Escalating Chatter: Discussions of B-52 bombers training off Venezuela raise alarms; two survivors of a U.S. strike on a suspected drug sub were quietly sent home, suggesting shaky legal grounds.
- Policy Driven by Oily Motives and Marco Rubio:
- Tommy Vietor: “The Journal also says Trump is on board because he genuinely wants the oil. Again, something we've talked about... and we've heard from other people who worked in the first Trump term.” [18:54]
- Worrying Historical Parallels:
- Ben Rhodes: “The CIA ... has been focused on the Middle East, Afghanistan, China, Russia... this is a pretty new mission to be able to identify individual boats to kill people on.” [20:44]
- He warns of the U.S. repeating disastrous Latin America interventions: “It usually ends in either a left wing revolution, a right wing dictator, or some protracted civil war [and] death squads. That's the history.” [21:33]
- Expanding Tensions with Colombia: Trump publicly accuses President Petro of being a “drug dealer” and promises tariff punishments, further destabilizing U.S.-Colombia relations—a critical regional alliance.
3. Gaza Update: Ceasefire, Humanitarian Catastrophe, and Shaky Peace
[31:26–50:00]
-
Aid Still Falls Short: World Food Programme says only 750 of needed 2,000 tons of food enter Gaza daily; Israel limits trucks as negotiation tactic over hostage remains.
-
Security Vacuum: Hamas regains surreptitious control, executing alleged collaborators; Israeli-backed militias clash with them; phase two international stabilization force remains theoretical.
- Trump doubles down on collective punishment: “If they keep [misbehaving] then we're going to go in and straighten it out and it'll happen very quickly and pretty violently, unfortunately.” [35:34]
- Ben Rhodes: "The way he talks about eradicating [Hamas]—there's a dehumanization that seems like it's not just about Hamas. It feels like it's about people in Gaza generally." [36:04]
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Ceasefire at Risk: IDF airstrikes resume after Israeli soldiers are killed; aid briefly halted as “punishment”; far-right Israeli cabinet urges immediate return to full-scale war.
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Phase Two Issues Lagging:
- Jared Kushner and Steve Witkoff, fresh from a 60 Minutes puff piece, flounder on democratic transition for Gaza and security force creation.
- Kushner: “What people call conflicts of interest, Steve and I call experience and trusted relationships...” [44:31]
- Asked about democracy in Gaza: "Too early to tell... it's a hard problem." [45:07]
Notable Quote:
Ben Rhodes: "If this is over, if this is peace, how come international journalists can't go into Gaza? What are they hiding?" [48:50]
4. Accounts from Gaza and West Bank: Violence and Neglect of U.S. Citizens
[54:53–65:19]
a) Noah Schnall – Flotilla Intercept & Israeli Prison Abuse
- Boarding occurred in international waters with violence, destruction of surveillance equipment, and targeted abuse (especially racial profiling).
- In Israeli custody: degrading stress positions, physical assaults, sexual abuse reported during strip searches.
- Schnall: "We were attacked in international waters... This was illegal from the start." [56:01]
- “One woman confided in me... she was penetrated during her strip search. I mean, just absolutely horrific things.” [58:13]
- No action or advocacy from Trump administration or U.S. representatives, despite victims being Americans.
b) Jasper Nathaniel – Settler Violence in the West Bank
- Chased by a mob of settlers wielding clubs, with direct video evidence.
- U.S. embassy initially showed concern, but provided no follow-up or protection.
- Nathaniel: "An ally that all three of [my representatives] support very closely is threatening my life... have not heard back from any of them." [63:53]
5. International Stories
A. Japan’s First Female Prime Minister – Sanae Takaichi
[65:19–71:40]
- Hardline conservative, Margaret Thatcher fan, protégé of Shinzo Abe. Nationalist; skeptical of immigration and LGBTQ rights.
- Yuki Tatsumi: "She can claim herself to be Mr. Abe's protege... which is an incredible asset with Trump." [68:13]
- Concerns she may need to tack even further right to outflank newer far-right parties.
B. Global Epstein Scandal Expands
[71:44–76:32]
- Virginia Giuffre’s posthumous memoir ignites scandal, implicating Prince Andrew (who finally relinquishes his title) and former Israeli PM Ehud Barak.
- Barak’s ties to Epstein and Israeli intelligence get fresh scrutiny.
C. Humanitarian Disaster from USAID Cuts
[76:32–78:52]
- AP and other outlets document starvation and collapsed health programs in Myanmar and Lesotho—direct effects of Trump-era foreign aid gutting, championed by Elon Musk and Marco Rubio.
- Ben Rhodes: “Don't go back to thinking that Elon Musk is just a shitposting CEO. This is a man with a ton of blood on his hands.” [78:38]
6. Special Segment: The Louvre Jewel Heist Explained
Interview with Anthony Amore, Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum
[81:53–100:47]
- How the Heist Happened: Four burglars disguised as construction workers used a truck-mounted ladder, cut through security, and stole 8 pieces of priceless Napoleonic jewelry in 7 minutes.
- “It’s a nightmare scenario… these older jewels can be broken up, the stones sold off individually, the gold melted down.” [83:23]
- Museum Security Myths: No system is foolproof, tech advances quickly; art thefts often hinge on clever social engineering (e.g., disguises, timing).
- Gardner Heist Parallel: Recap of the infamous 1990 theft (13 legendary artworks); still unsolved, $10 million reward outstanding.
Notable Quotes
- Ben Rhodes, on Trump’s Ukraine stance:
"You don't start the negotiation from the premise that Ukraine loses everything." [09:09] - Tommy Vietor, regarding U.S. strikes in Venezuela:
"It does not suggest that the administration has much confidence in the legal basis for these airstrikes." [17:55] - Ben Rhodes, on Gaza stabilizing force:
"If you just let a place that's been utterly destroyed, with a group like Hamas trying to reestablish its authority ... this is what's going to happen." [36:06]
Timestamps for Major Segments
- Trump-Zelensky/Ukraine: [05:45]–[16:08]
- Venezuela/Latin America Policy: [16:08]–[29:39]
- Gaza Ceasefire/Hostage Issues: [31:26]–[50:00]
- Testimonies from Gaza/West Bank: [54:53]–[65:19]
- Japan’s PM, Epstein, USAID: [65:19]–[78:52]
- Louvre Jewel Heist (Anthony Amore): [81:53]–[100:47]
Tone & Style
Conversational, incisive, sometimes darkly humorous — hosts bring insider and journalistic expertise but aren't afraid of frank criticism, exasperation, or sharp analogies to drive home the real-world gravity and absurdity of US foreign policy under Trump.
Conclusion
This episode paints a bleak but vital picture of current U.S. foreign policy under Trump: abandoned allies, global strongmen alliances, impending interventions, humanitarian crises, and threats to the international order. The hosts’ trademark banter coexists with sharp, on-the-ground testimonies and deep dives into overlooked global stories, rendering this a must-listen for anyone following American power and its impact abroad.