Pod Save the World: Trump’s New MAGA Deep State Release Date: January 29, 2025 | Hosts: Tommy Vietor & Ben Rhodes

Introduction

In this episode of Pod Save the World, hosts Tommy Vietor and Ben Rhodes delve into the intricate developments surrounding Donald Trump’s influence on the current U.S. foreign policy landscape. The discussion encompasses Trump's administration's strategic moves to reshape foreign aid, personnel changes within key government agencies, international provocations, escalating conflicts abroad, advancements in artificial intelligence (AI), and updates on global hotspots like Syria and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). Additionally, the hosts engage in a profound conversation with Peter Beinart about his new book, Being Jewish after the Destruction of Gaza.

Freezing Foreign Aid and Its Implications

Tommy Vietor opens the discussion by addressing Trump's executive order that initiated a 90-day pause on all foreign assistance programs. Initially ambiguous, it was clarified by Secretary of State Marco Rubio that this freeze encompasses both new and ongoing programs. [05:00] Tommy Vietor explains:

"Programs that clear landmines and unexploded ordinance were forced to stop working. That means people in Vietnam, Iraq, Ukraine are now at risk of picking up a clustered munition and getting their hand blown off."

This freeze has immediate and severe consequences:

• PEPFAR (President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief), a cornerstone program credited with saving 25 million lives, has been suspended.
• Foreign Military Financing to allies like Taiwan and Ukraine has been halted, undermining efforts to combat threats such as Ebola in Tanzania and bird flu in 49 countries.
• USAID saw a significant purge, with approximately 60 top career staffers placed on leave, effectively decimating decades of institutional knowledge and expertise.

Ben Rhodes adds a critical perspective on the broader impact:

"Whether that's people that are not getting HIV AIDS drugs under PEPFAR, whether that's kids who are picking up unexploded ordinance in Laos that could have been cleared, ... There's real world consequences, life and death consequences for people because these programs are cut."

Centralization of Power and Personnel Changes

The hosts discuss the Trump administration's broader strategy to centralize power within the U.S. government, bypassing traditional checks and balances:

• National Security Council (NSC): Hundreds of career staffers were sent home pending ideological vetting, raising concerns about groupthink and the loss of specialized knowledge crucial for handling international crises.

  [17:24] Ben Rhodes: "You have to pass a loyalty, have to be first and foremost politically committed to Donald Trump and his agenda."

• Pentagon Reforms: The administration has repealed policies like the ban on transgender individuals serving in the military and has dismantled Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) programs. Additionally, security details for officials involved in high-profile events, such as the assassination of Iranian General Qasem Soleimani, have been removed.

  [13:36] Donald Trump: "You can't have a security detail for the rest of your life because you worked for government."

International Provocations and Trade Wars

Tommy Vietor highlights Trump's aggressive foreign dealings:

• Denmark and Greenland: Trump's attempt to purchase Greenland led to diplomatic tensions when the Danish Prime Minister firmly declined, prompting Trump to threaten tariffs.

  [22:05] Tommy Vietor: "Trump had a terrible call with the Danish prime minister recently. ... Trump threatened her with tariffs."

• Trade Disputes with Colombia: A public spat between Trump and Colombian President Gustavo Petro over migrant deportation flights escalated into a brief trade conflict, signaling Trump's willingness to leverage economic threats for political gain.

  [22:05] Ben Rhodes: "Trump is kicking the shit out of Colombia to take deportation flights."

These actions undermine U.S. alliances and push countries toward stronger ties with China and Russia, thereby diminishing American influence globally.

Escalating Conflict in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC)

The episode covers the alarming developments in the DRC, where the Rwandan-backed rebel group M23 has captured the city of Goma:

• Background: M23, composed mainly of the Tutsi ethnic group, has historically been supported by Rwanda and is driven by access to the DRC’s rich mineral resources, including cobalt, copper, and lithium.

  [35:43] Ben Rhodes: "This is a horrific group that has committed rape as a weapon of war, mass atrocities."

• Current Situation: The group's capture of Goma has resulted in the death of the military governor of North Kivu and the evacuation of UN peacekeepers, displacing around 400,000 people.

  [35:43] Ben Rhodes: "This fighting is likely to displace hundreds of thousands or millions of people and could risk a wider war across the region."

The instability threatens global supply chains, especially for minerals crucial to technology and green energy sectors.

AI Competition with China: The DeepSeek Breakthrough

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to discussing the competitive landscape in AI between the U.S. and China:

• DeepSeek’s Innovation: A Chinese AI startup, DeepSeek, released DeepSeek R1, an AI chatbot model claiming near parity with American models like ChatGPT, achieved at a fraction of the cost and with inferior hardware. Notably, it was open-sourced, allowing for external validation.

  [43:57] Ben Rhodes: "This is what was gonna happen and it's happened."

• Market Impact: The announcement triggered a massive sell-off in tech stocks, particularly affecting companies like Nvidia, which saw a loss of nearly $600 billion in market cap in a single day.

  [47:21] Tommy Vietor: "China may have proven that they can build an AI product on a $5.5 million budget that is nearly as good as the models that required billions of dollars of advanced chips to create."

• Geopolitical Ramifications: With U.S. export controls on AI chips being circumvented by Chinese innovation, American dominance in the AI sector is challenged, potentially leading to a reorientation of global AI infrastructure towards China.

  [43:57] Ben Rhodes: "The Chinese could just look at that and be like, well, we don't have all the chips that these guys had to produce the thing, but they're literally showing us how their models work and so we'll just copy it."

This development signifies a potential AI Sputnik moment, raising concerns about the sustainability of American technological supremacy.

Updates on Syria

The hosts provide insights into the evolving situation in Syria:

• EU’s Sanctions Relief: The European Union has agreed in principle to ease sanctions on Syria’s financial institutions, energy, and transportation sectors, signaling a potential shift towards diplomatic engagement.

  [50:00] Tommy Vietor: "The European Union has taken some steps forward on sanctions relief for Syria."

• U.S. Intelligence Sharing: The Biden administration shared intelligence with HTS (Hayat Tahrir al-Sham) regarding an ISIS plot, emphasizing the complexity of alliances in the region.

  [50:17] Ben Rhodes: "The intelligence community warned HTS about an ISIS plot to set off a bomb at a Shiite shrine."

• Russian Influence: The Syrian government has canceled its contract with a Russian company managing operations at the Tartus port, indicating a potential decline in Russian influence in Syria’s strategic maritime assets.

  [51:07] Tommy Vietor: "The future of that military presence...is still up in the air."

Macron’s Controversial Plans for Notre Dame

Shifting focus to Europe, the episode discusses French President Emmanuel Macron’s plans to modernize Notre Dame Cathedral:

• Public Backlash: Macron’s proposal to replace some 19th-century stained glass with contemporary designs has been met with significant opposition, including a petition signed by over 250,000 people.

  [52:56] Ben Rhodes: "A lot of people, frankly, ignored the fact that that empowered Hamas because they're cut out any political process."

• Cultural Resistance: The French public’s resistance underscores the challenges leaders face when attempting to alter historical and cultural landmarks.

  [53:39] Tommy Vietor: "I feel like what he's missing is a political advisor that is just with him all the time who says do less."

Interview with Peter Beinart: Being Jewish after the Destruction of Gaza

In an in-depth interview, Tommy Vietor and Ben Rhodes converse with Peter Beinart about his new book, exploring the moral and ethical dilemmas faced by Jews in the aftermath of Gaza’s devastation.

Key Themes:

• Jewish Responsibility and Solidarity: Beinart discusses the internal conflicts within the Jewish community regarding support for Israeli policies and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

  [58:00] Ben Rhodes: "I'm not coming as an outsider to this. I care as passionately about our people and our safety as you do."

• Historical Narratives and Victimhood: The book critiques how Jewish traditions often emphasize victimhood and survival, potentially hindering nuanced discussions about Palestinians’ rights and humanity.

  [62:32] Ben Rhodes: "If you don't start with that understanding, you're not going to be able to understand the violence that threatens both groups of people there."

• Recommendations for Peace: Beinart advocates for political solutions, such as releasing key Palestinian leaders and halting settlement expansions, to pave the way for genuine peace and reduce support for extremist violence.

  [66:27] Ben Rhodes: "I would have let Marwan Barghouti out of jail... Stop settlement growth... Give Palestinians citizenship in Israel."

• Challenges of Advocacy: Addressing the backlash and censorship faced by those who critique Israeli policies, Beinart emphasizes the importance of maintaining open dialogue without resorting to dehumanizing rhetoric.

  [73:26] Tommy Vietor: "It's so upsetting to me... if you don't have an argument, come to the table and make the argument."

Notable Quotes:

• Peter Beinart on Jewish solidarity:

  "I'm not coming as an outsider to this. I care as passionately about our people and our safety as you do." [57:21]

• Ben Rhodes on the normalization of aggression:

  "The entirety of the United States government, very much a Project 2025 agenda... You're pushing tons of expertise out the window." [17:52]

Conclusion

The episode paints a vivid portrait of Trump’s intensified grip on U.S. foreign policy, marked by the undermining of established aid programs, strategic personnel purges, and provocative international actions. These moves not only destabilize global alliances but also embolden adversarial powers like China. Concurrently, the rise of cost-effective AI technologies from China signals a potential shift in technological prowess and geopolitical influence. The discussion with Peter Beinart further underscores the dire humanitarian implications of current policies, advocating for thoughtful, inclusive solutions to entrenched conflicts.

Final Thoughts from Ben Rhodes:

"This is a big, big deal... it's a big deal." [49:35]

Tommy Vietor emphasizes the interconnectedness of global events and the critical need for informed, ethical leadership to navigate these turbulent times.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Tommy Vietor [05:00]:

  "Programs that clear landmines and unexploded ordinance were forced to stop working. That means people in Vietnam, Iraq, Ukraine are now at risk of picking up a clustered munition and getting their hand blown off."

• Ben Rhodes [09:57]:

  "People will die because of them. Whether that's people that are not getting HIV AIDS drugs under PEPFAR... there's real world consequences, life and death consequences for people because these programs are cut."

• Donald Trump [13:36]:

  "You can't have a security detail for the rest of your life because you worked for government."

• Ben Rhodes [17:24]:

  "If you have an argument, come to the table and make the argument."

• Peter Beinart [58:00]:

  "I'm not coming as an outsider to this. I care as passionately about our people and our safety as you do."

This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, highlighting the critical discussions on Trump’s foreign policy maneuvers, international conflicts, AI advancements, and the moral discourse surrounding the Gaza crisis. Through insightful analysis and compelling quotes, Tommy Vietor and Ben Rhodes provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of the global shifts shaping today's geopolitical landscape.