Pod Save the World: “What Should Progressive Foreign Policy Look Like?” (Crooked Con)

Date: November 10, 2025
Host(s): Tommy Vietor & Ben Rhodes
Featuring: Rep. Ro Khanna (CA-17) & Rep. Yasmine Ansari (AZ-3)
Theme: Reclaiming Progressive Foreign Policy, the moral and practical imperatives for Democrats in a post-Trump world

Overview

Broadcast live from Crooked Con, this episode tackles the urgent question: “What should progressive foreign policy look like?” Tommy Vietor and Ben Rhodes analyze President Trump’s record on world affairs, critique both Republican and Democratic approaches, and welcome Congressmembers Ro Khanna and Yasmine Ansari to explore how the left can reclaim moral authority, credibility, and effectiveness on the global stage. The conversation is frank, substantive, and urgent—covering everything from the myth of “peace president” Trump and the fallout of U.S. aid dismantlement, to Gaza, Iran, climate security, and the need for generational, unapologetically anti-war Democratic leadership.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Debunking “Trump the Peace President” (03:30–08:45)

• Trump’s Peace Narrative:
  The episode opens with an assessment of Trump’s claim to be a “peacemaker.” Ben and Tommy point out the gap between rhetoric and reality, citing specific contradictions:

  • Trump claimed to end wars but took credit for conflicts he neither started nor ended (“the war between Egypt and Ethiopia, which was literally never fought”—Ben, 08:45).
  • His administration has been simultaneously escalating new conflicts, e.g., planning for possible invasions (Nigeria, Venezuela) and military actions in the Caribbean.
  • "He be bombed Iran and then said he ended the war that he started. That's one way to go about ending wars, I suppose." – Ben Rhodes (05:55)

• Militarization for Personal Gain:
  The hosts warn that Trump’s approach is to deploy U.S. military for personal/political interests while ignoring Congressional or legal checks:

  • "The dangerous thing that I see that I think we all need to be concerned about and aware of is if he can essentially completely ignore Congress, completely ignore the law domestically and internationally, and turn the military into something that just serves his interests. That's where shit gets real." – Ben Rhodes (07:44)

2. Ukraine & the Flaws in U.S. Messaging (09:01–14:30)

• Ukraine War Stalemate:
  Trump failed on his promise to end the war swiftly. If anything, the conflict has escalated and Russian aggression increased.

  • "The war is still raging for Ukrainians. I think life is as bad, if not worse, as it was the day he was elected." – Tommy Vietor (09:04)
  • "The message from Putin to the world is, I own this guy. I can do whatever I want, and he'll still roll out the red carpet for me in Alaska." – Ben Rhodes (11:17)

• Missed Opportunities for Democrats:
  Ben argues Democrats must reclaim the anti-war mantle by explicitly advocating for ending “forever wars,” diplomacy, and alliances, rather than being defensive about hawkish criticism.

  • "We should be the party for ending forever wars." – Ben Rhodes (13:04)

3. China Policy: All Bluster, No Strategy (14:35–20:00)

• Tariffs & AI—No Real Gains:
  Trump’s get-tough policies on China resulted in meaningless back-and-forth tariffs hurting American farmers and enabling strategic losses in tech (AI chips).

  • “Soybeans for AI chips. And the only problem that the tariffs are solving are the ones created by the tariffs in the first place.” – Tommy Vietor (15:28)
  • “Xi Jinping didn't back down...Trump folded...he just wants to stand next to Xi Jinping and say he looks like a handsome man from central casting, and there's headlines all over: US trade deal reached with China. Then it’s all fine.” – Ben Rhodes (18:33)

• Alienating Allies:
  Instead of coalition-building, Trump insulted or tariffed U.S. partners, weakening U.S. leverage against China.

4. Dismantling USAID: Catastrophic Human & Strategic Costs (20:00–21:37)

• The Human Toll:
  The destruction of USAID is described as Trump’s most disastrous international act—with staggering numbers of deaths, two-thirds children, directly attributable to lost assistance.
  • “USAID assistance had saved 92 million lives over two decades...by dismantling USAID, the United States has caused the deaths of 600,000 people so far, two thirds of them children.” – Tommy Vietor (21:10)
  • “This is the most consequential in terms of human lives...This is not just a story about big balls coming into usaid. This is a story about what the US Government is telling the world it values.” – Ben Rhodes (21:37)

5. Re-centering Human Rights and U.S. Moral Leadership—Panel Discussion (25:24–64:55)

A. Immigration, Dignity, and International Image (25:48–30:57)

• Rep. Yasmine Ansari: Draws a stark line from immigration enforcement to human rights and America’s moral reputation, relating first-person accounts of abuse and neglect in ICE detention.
  • "How we respond to all of that is very much reflective of how the rest of the world will perceive the United States." – Yasmine Ansari (26:49)
  • On private detention: "Honestly, before that, Core Civic and Geo Group, they're making billions of dollars as we ramp up detention center capacity." (28:39)
  • “We need to end for-profit detentions. ...Quite frankly, I don't think that ICE is reformable.” (30:50)

B. Gaza & Restoring Moral Clarity in the Democratic Party (31:31–33:52)

• Rep. Ro Khanna:
  • "President Biden mishandled Gaza. He was wrong. We should never have given a blank check." – Ro Khanna (32:07)
  • Calls for specific action: no arms sales to Israel, recognizing Palestinian statehood, joining the No Bombs Act.
  • “Young people are tired of the platitudes...Enough of the word salads, enough of the platitudes. We need to be a party of moral courage.” (33:45)

C. Iran, Human Rights, and the Limits of Military Force (33:53–39:03)

• Rep. Ansari: Advocates for supporting human rights and democracy through non-military means (internet freedom, envoys, public solidarity) and describes the power of the “women, life, freedom” movement.
  • “I think there’s ways that the United States can support the Iranian people without taking direct military action.” (36:49)
  • “We have to make sure to remember that we just have not been successful in that realm. And there's other ways to support the people against their authoritarian regimes.” (38:41)

D. Activism, the Pentagon Budget, and Democrat Hypocrisy (42:05–44:32)

• Rep. Khanna: Praises cross-partisan activism for preventing a larger war, but calls out Democrats for voting for endless increases in Pentagon budgets while claiming to oppose militarism.
  • “We can't just say, okay, we don't want militarism. And then our party keeps voting for a Pentagon budget that is over a trillion dollars.” (42:51)
  • “We need to... be far louder about what is going on in these boats in Venezuela...fundamentally eroding our moral standing in the world.” (43:21)

E. Climate Policy as Security and Survival (44:32–51:21)

• Climate as National Security:
  • “Climate policy is very much national security policy. ...Climate change driving migration and conflict, and so much more.” – Yasmine Ansari (47:36)
  • Advocates for a “Climate Security Corps,” resilience-building, and international leadership: “We can really build strong alliances around climate stability and resilience.” (50:19)

F. The Militarization and Politicization of the U.S. Military (52:50–56:22)

• Rep. Khanna: Sounds the alarm about the “magnification” of the U.S. military as a political tool, purges of military leaders, and the risk this poses to democracy and international standing.
  • “When you have people like General Hawk who've given their lives to this country for 30 years...be fired summarily because Laura Loomer puts out some tweet, I mean, look at the denigration of public service.” (54:18)
  • “You cannot divorce the morality of America's foreign policy from our morality as a multiracial democracy. And that is, I think, the vision that the Democratic Party needs to offer.” (56:01)

G. Why Foreign Policy Matters to Voters (57:36–62:09)

• Khanna: Argues that people do care about the soul and values of America, not just economics—foreign policy is about what America represents, not only practical interests.

  • “What they don't calculate is voters ultimately care most about what America represents, what our values are, whether it's ICE raids, whether it's how we're acting in the world.” (57:46)

• Ansari: Cites Congress' lack of foreign policy expertise as a barrier to better debate and oversight. Proposes building a pipeline for more foreign policy experts in Congress.

  • “Foreign policy is honestly one of those topics that even for the smartest member of Congress can be daunting and people just don't know a lot about.” (59:56)

H. The Progressive Foreign Policy Pitch (62:09–64:55)

• Khanna:

  • “We've got to become the party of the anti war party again with moral clarity.” (62:38)
  • Offers Carter-era vision: U.S. leadership for peace, human rights—the “alternative tradition from King and Douglas and Lincoln.”

• Ansari:

  • “Anti corruption, not just in terms of our domestic politics, but our foreign policy as well.” (63:53)
  • Asserts “climate security is national security” and stresses the connectivity of domestic and foreign fights for democracy.

• Ben Rhodes:

  • “There is no foreign and domestic policy. The corruption is at home and it's abroad. The autocracy is at home and it's abroad...There's just one big fucking problem that we're dealing with, okay? And we need to win this fight here and we have to win it abroad.” (64:55)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump taking credit for ending fictitious wars:
  “My favorite example of a war he claims to have ended is the war between Egypt and Ethiopia, which was literally never fought.” – Ben Rhodes (08:45)

• On the value of activism:
  “The activism in the country prevented a longer regime change war in Iran. Activism not just from the left, but also from the right.” – Ro Khanna (42:05)

• On the genocide in Gaza and Democratic courage:
  “Those who voted for that aid made as much of a blunder as those who supported the war in Iraq. We need to have moral clarity going forward. ...Young people are tired of the platitudes.” – Ro Khanna (32:07/33:45)

• On the indivisibility of domestic and foreign fights for democracy:
  “There is no foreign and domestic policy. The corruption is at home and it's abroad...There's just one big fucking problem that we're dealing with.” – Ben Rhodes (64:55)

Key Timestamps

• 03:30–08:45: Trump’s “peace president” myth, expansion of conflicts, militarization of policy
• 09:01–14:30: Ukraine war assessment and the case for reclaiming anti-war messaging
• 14:35–20:00: China policy, tariffs, and lack of strategic thinking
• 20:00–21:37: Catastrophic consequences of dismantling USAID
• 25:24–51:21: Panel discussion: human rights, Gaza, Iran, activism vs. militarism, climate policy
• 52:50–56:22: Militarization and politicization of the U.S. military under Trump
• 57:36–62:09: Why values and international standing matter to voters (& why Dems overlook this)
• 62:09–64:55: Candidates’ closing pitches for progressive foreign policy vision

Summary Takeaways

This episode is a clarion call for Democrats to reclaim their legacy as the anti-war, pro-human rights party, resisting the drift toward endless militarization, nationalist hubris, and moral compromise. The hosts and their guests advocate for a foreign policy rooted in clear moral choices—ending forever wars, defending dignity at home and abroad, combating corruption, and adapting to new threats like climate change. The show is self-aware, critical of both parties’ failings, and ultimately hopeful that a bolder, more honest approach will rekindle both the party’s credibility and its soul.

For listeners and non-listeners alike, this episode is a crash course in what’s at stake for U.S. foreign policy and why progressive, human-centered leadership is more than just good politics—it’s a necessity for the world we have, and the one we hope to build.