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Podcast Answer Man
478 - Stephen Bartlett, Diary of a CEO, and The Myth of Six Simple Tips for Podcast Success
01:03:30
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- [00:00]
A
One of the more modern, successful podcasts that are out there that I tune into every now and then and enjoy immensely when I do is a podcast called the Diary of a CEO by Stephen Bartlett. One can not argue against the popularity of some of these interview format podcasts. Just look at Joe Rogan, Tim Ferriss, Lex Friedman, and of course, Stephen Bartlett. As somebody who has devoted the last 20 years to helping people launch their own voice out into the world, one of the concerns that I have is when you have a handful of these incredibly successful, very popular shows showing up out there in the world of YouTube with millions of views, million plus subscribers, and the idea starts to come about that maybe, just maybe, if I also did video for my podcast, I might be able to blow up like those guys did. And it gets really dangerous when one of these guys tells you that's the case. That's what we're going to talk about in this episode of Podcast Answer Man. Well, hello and welcome back, my friend, to another episode of Podcast Answer Man. This is Cliff Ravenscraft, and this, my friend, is the original podcast devoted to podcasting, helping you take your message, your business, and your life to the next level. That's right. It doesn't matter if you're a brand to this online content creating world or if you've been creating content for many years. There's something we can all do to take everything we do in life to the next level. That's right. And some might argue that what you could do to take your podcasting efforts to the next level is simply be more consistent. Show up on video and interview very popular guests. Just do that. And at the end of the day, you too could make over $100,000 a month with your podcast. Okay, so that isn't exactly what Stephen Bartlett said in an episode of his Diary of a CEO podcast that I found from. Well, a little ways back in the archive came up as a suggested video on my YouTube algorithm. And it says how I make 1.2 million a year from this podcast. And there is a little bit of a flavor of. And if you just follow these six or seven simple tips, you too can have great success like me. And if you think I'm making that up, let me play for you the opening to this episode.
- [03:12]
B
This week we're going to do something different on this podcast. This podcast is about this podcast. So many of you have asked me questions about this podcast, how it works, how big the team is, how we pick and find guests, how we make a successful podcast, how you can build a successful Social media channel or personal brand, and also how much money you can make from a podcast. At the end of the day, I just sit here and talk. I get to have interesting conversations with people I genuinely find interesting. So I think people typically assume that having a podcast is just a labor of love. Now, that is true. I don't do this for the money. I'm fortunate enough to have made a lot of money from the first company that I founded. I do this because I love it. Of all the things, of all the revenue streams I have in my life, podcasting is my lowest financial return on the amount of time it takes me. However, this podcast will make millions this year. So this week I'm going to tell you the truth about everything. After all, this podcast was founded on truth and honesty. And I've not seen any other podcasters tell you the things that I'm about to tell you about this business, about this medium, and about this industry. I'm going to show you exactly how much money I make from this podcast. How I do it, how I did it, and how anyone else can do it too, with six or seven simple pieces of advice.
- [04:35]
A
Did you hear it? He's going to share with you. Just six or seven simple pieces of advice on how anyone else can do it too. And did you catch this phrase?
- [04:49]
B
At the end of the day, I just sit here and talk. I get to have interesting conversations with people I genuinely find interesting.
- [04:56]
A
So he starts off this episode by saying, at the end of the day, I just sit here and talk. I'm going to share with you how I started my podcast, how I started from nothing under my blanket with a cheap microphone. And I built this and you can too. Well, I want to tell you that Stephen Bartlett's success is the result of more than a decade spent building his reputation, his influence, resources and relationships with long before he ever recorded his first podcast episode. In fact, long before he started Diary of a CEO as a podcast, he already had a celebrity level business reputation. He built his company called Social Chain Group into a multinational public company worth hundreds of millions of dollars. He gained major press exposure. He's been covered by countless television outlets and mainstream publications speaking about his success. And as a result of that, he had already spoken globally at conferences and corporate events around the world, cultivating thousands of direct fans. As a result of that, he already had a massive brand and audience already in place. When he published his very first podcast episode, he already had hundreds of thousands of social followers. When you start a podcast where you have existing name recognition like that you are never starting from zero. When you start with episode number one. If you dig into Steven Bartlett's story of how he dropped out of college after one lecture because he wanted to focus on business, became one of the youngest millionaires in the uk and that story was already viral and well known all over the Internet way before he started his podcast. Now, even in that intro, he talks about the major financial resources that he has. He had the cash to hire an entire staff of people. When he decided to take his podcast seriously, you're going to learn later that he invested the equivalent of about $55,000 just on equipment, without any fear and no risk whatsoever, leasing an entire office and studio space custom built with his brand identity he could afford when he started this, he could afford to lose money for years without, without it ever causing him stress. And when you add on top of that the fact that he had a powerhouse of a personal network such as celebrity friends, high profile entrepreneurs, media personalities, investors, famous authors, the guests that he brought onto his show, of course they bring their audiences with them, but getting guests like that is not easily duplicated by just anyone. And so while the advice to get great guests is an amazing piece of advice, by simply following that advice, you're not necessarily going to get the same results. One of the things that he doesn't talk about here is the fact that he already had more than a decade of communication skills. He'd already spent years speaking on camera, on stage, and online. Most new podcasters, when they start, they're still learning how to talk into a microphone and find that voice. And so when somebody like this gives you just six or seven simple tips on how you can get the same success that he and others like him have, well, just keep in mind that if you also have coming into that all of the things that I just mentioned, then maybe, yeah, but if you're out there thinking that you could just add video and interview high profile guests and you're going to make lots of money, I'm telling you there, there's a whole lot more to Stephen Bartlett's success than the tips he shared in this video. Now, with that being said, he shared some incredible tips, and I want to share with you the tips that he did share in this episode and my commentary on how beautiful those tips are for your own podcasting journey. But first, let me have Stephen explain to you what the first three years of his podcast production was like.
- [10:00]
B
I started doing this podcast three or four years ago with a 90 pound microphone that I bought in Apple that I Plugged into my laptop, I put a duvet over my head 3am in the morning and I went downstairs into the quietest part of my house. There was no script, no plan, no team. I edited it myself, I engineered the audio myself, recorded it myself on my own. And I sat there and just spoke into a microphone about my life. And in that first episode, episode one, it was a total one off experiment in my mind. I never actually thought it would become multiple episodes or a season. And that renowned line that people in the comment section often ask about that I just said, I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, keep this to yourself was totally random. I didn't plan to say that. I said it because I was about to share my diary for the first time and I was unsure how being so vulnerable, open and honest would be received. So I jokingly asked anyone listening to keep it to themselves. And obviously you guys didn't do that. And here we are three years and ten months later and the podcast has done very well. It's now the most listened to business podcast in Europe. It's sat at number one in the charts almost consecutively for 40 weeks straight. And as I said, it's become a multimillion dollar business since, since I founded it. But.
- [11:17]
A
We'll get back to his but statement in just a moment. However, I just wanted to point out how I love the origin story of this podcast because I only became aware of it when once it had already achieved its massive success. You know, it was probably about 10 months ago that I first really started to see the Diary of a CEO start getting recommended to me on a pretty consistent basis with some amazingly high profile guests that really drew me in. I'm like, I would love to hear what that person has to say about whatever the topic or title of the episode was. But I loved hearing about Stephen Bartlett going in and investing the equivalent of £90. That's probably just over 100 bucks on some microphone that he picked off the shelf in the Apple store. And how he went home, threw a blanket over his head and recorded his first audio diary, that is pretty incredible. Now what I will say is that he already had a very niche show, an already niche topic that would be of interest to a very specific target audience. And that's something that I don't think he really leans into in his story. You see those hundreds of thousands of people who had already become aware of his viral story about his success and his entrepreneurial path, and all of these people he's reached throughout the years before he's recording his personal diary, he's already got a built up demand for the behind the scenes story of what he's experienced and what he's learning in life. There is something to be said about this. Do something or be someone worth talking about or worth learning from. One of the things that I do when it comes to interview based formats, I kind of treat interview format podcasts like Diary of a CEO the same way I would the library where they have an entire section for biographies and memoirs. I don't go in and just randomly select a book off the shelf and read somebody's biography. For me to be able to be interested in that particular biography, I need to recognize that name, have some level of respect for that person and what they've built, the impact that they've had. There's gotta be something about that person and there has to be something inside of me that says, hmm, I would love to learn a little bit more of the behind the scenes on how that person became that person or how that person got to the place where they were able to have that, this level of impact. And I think it's worth pointing out that Stephen Bartlett already had that. As a guy with $100 microphone off of the Apple Store shelf, sitting under his blanket, sharing his personal diary thoughts, there were already people out there eager to hear what he had to say. Okay, let's get into Stephen's first tip where he talks about the importance of consistency.
- [14:47]
B
And here is my first piece of advice if you're thinking about getting into the podcast game. And this piece of advice, I guess, applies not just to starting a podcast, but also to all facets of your professional and probably personal life. I published my first podcast episode three years and 10 months ago. But for the first three years, I was never, ever consistent with my podcast. When I started, one month I might release an episode and then there might be a gap of like two months or three months or a couple of weeks. Then I'd pop up with another episode and then there'd be a huge gap again. And so on and so on and so on. And whenever I was consistent and managed to publish predictably every Monday for several weeks in a row, the podcast audience would grow and grow and grow. And you could see on the graph that the podcast growth was compounding. If I then took a month off, it was almost like I was back to square one again. You could see on the data when I would come back from my little hiatus, less people were there to listen. So I realized very quickly that if this podcast was going to really work and reach its full potential, then I had to figure out how to be consistent. So 10 months ago, I made the decision that no matter what, we would publish an episode on Monday, every single Monday. And from that point onwards, the growth absolutely exploded by 10x10 times higher. And as I said, this is not a lesson on podcasting. It's a lesson on all facets of life, whether it's building a business, getting millions of followers on Instagram, or even getting into the best shape of your life. Figuring out a way to reach that point of sustainable consistency was the key to explosive growth and progress. That is a fundamental lesson of my entire life, one that it genuinely took me 27 years to appreciate the value of being consistent at almost anything. Consistency unlocks everything. It teaches you faster than everybody else. It compounds growth. And as it relates to content and building audiences, it helps to establish a cadence which keeps them coming back for more. If your podcast is once in a while or even broken down into seasons that have these sort of large gaps between them, I seriously believe you're going to have a really difficult time growing your audience, especially organically, because people move on and they forget about you and you fall out of their routine. And we publish every Monday morning at 7am Because I know 50, roughly 50% of podcast listeners listen in transit, which means on their way to work, on a flight, on a train, on a walk, or even like on a running machine at the gym. So I want my audience to know that on Monday morning, before you start your week, or as you're getting ready for the week ahead, or during your Monday morning commute, you can count on me to be there every week, right here. And that predictability for your audience allows them to fit you into their habits. And we are all creatures of habit.
- [17:39]
A
This advice that Steven just shared there is, hands down, the most important thing to take away. It is absolutely true that people who listen to podcasts tend to have a tendency to to make you a part of their regular routine. I have not only been creating content for over 20 years, I've been a content consumer of podcasts for more than 20 years. And there are certain content creators that I know. Every Wednesday morning I'm going to listen to, let's just say, Leo laporte, Andy Inocco, Alex Lindsay, and Jason Snell. These are the four panelists of MacBreak Weekly. Now, they produce their show live on Tuesdays and then their team takes and does the post production and releases it sometime during the day on Tuesday. So by the end of the day. On Tuesday, that thing's published and put into a podcast RSS feed. My Pocket Casts app, when I open it up every Wednesday morning, it says, hey, you have a new video podcast episode of Mac Break Weekly. And yes, it is a video podcast feed. I do not watch live streaming format. I do not watch it on their YouTube channel or any of the other video streaming platforms. I am so thankful that they create a video file that is delivered via the RSS feed because that is the most convenient way for me to receive episodic media files into a single app. That I think is the best app for managing my podcast subscriptions. Which by the way, is not Apple Podcasts app and it is definitely not Spotify. Those are great apps for their unique purposes and for some people they may be the best solution. But for me, my preferred choice is the Pocket Casts app. And it's not perfect, but it's the best out of all that I've tested. And so I'm thankful that it's not just audio and that the video only lives on some streaming service because quite frequently they show things on the screen and then refer to it in the conversation that's inside of the podcast content. One of the things that I will note is that there used to be a day where in the PocketCasts app there was a video feed where I could subscribe to Diary of a CEO. Over the last couple of months that seems to have disappeared. And one of the things that I noticed is that the audio feed was getting new episodes but the video feed was lagging. And then eventually it just stopped updating and then it was no longer to be found. So I'm not a fan of that. And as a result of it, I don't subscribe. Okay, I subscribe to the diary of CEO on YouTube. I very rarely ever see those episodes show up in my YouTube subscriptions because at this point I'm subscribed to so many YouTube channels and it just fills up with so much content. However, it's usually one of those big high profile guests that Steven Bartlett will have on the show and that will get a lot of attention and YouTube will start recommending it into the feed. And if I see that thumbnail with that very well known guest that I'm aware of and I see the title, I'm like, then I add it to my watch later. Now, interestingly enough, I do not enjoy subscribing to Diary of a CEO in audio format. And the reason why is because there's video there. And I think people show up in a different way when they're on camera and I'd like to actually see what it is that their facial expressions are. And sometimes they may even refer to something like I got this gift from such and such and they're actually showing Stephen this gift. And if I am listening to that in audio and they explain it and that conversation was never available in video, somewhere they might describe what they're seeing. But in video, sometimes the guest and or the host of the show completely forget that some people are listening to audio only. And therefore you become, as an audio subscriber to a podcast, a second class citizen. You don't get all of the benefits of a video viewer. So just a couple of notes there. But anyway, I digress. This is all about me saying I absolutely could not agree more with the consistency part. One of the things we could talk about is outlining your episodes, not doing things without a script. Although I think it brings some of the charm as well. Especially in the day of AI where everything is so well produced and well outlined and so streamlined. I think some of the unscripted approach. And so even though I'm supposed to be talking about my agreement with consistency, I think it's fun that there's a little bit of the side tangents baked into the conversation. I will just say this, that I know on Wednesday mornings I'm going to get a new episode of Mac Break Weekly. Now, my friend, well, I won't say his name. There's another content creator. I don't want to call him out publicly. There's another content creator that I've been following for more than 20 years. And frankly, I don't know when I'm going to get his new episodes. Sometimes it may be seven to 10 days between an episode. But there have been seasons of this content creator's life where he has been consistent, where there has been one day of the week consistently, that's when you know it's going to be a new episode. And there were seasons of my life where he was a part of that weekly routine within my life. He was a part of certain habits. And there were times when it wouldn't show up on that particular day of the week. And I wasn't even consciously aware of it. I was like, something feels off, like something's missing. And it was like two or three weeks that it's like the same thing happened on, let's just say a Thursday morning. And I'm like, why does this Thursday feel so often? You know what this thing that I'm doing on Thursdays, it seems like it's been. I haven't heard from fill in the blank of the name of the creator. I'm like, of course I've gone months, maybe even more than a year, every single week, having this person join me for this particular part of my routine each week. And for the last couple of weeks, this person's been gone. They're missing. This is what it means to be a creature of habit. This absolutely, hands down. If you can be available the same day of the week, release an episode the same time of the week, that consistency will work in your favor. And if you break it, and if you break it for too long, you definitely could lose that audience. They may go find something else to replace that part of their weekly routine. They still may come back and follow you down the road, but they'll have to find someplace else to fit you in, to squeeze you in. And then it's kind of like, well, is this something I can depend on? Consistency is key. And by the way, frequency, people ask me this all the time. I still to this day believe that the best frequency for a podcast is once a week, no more, no less. And just so you know, I want to be clear here, ever since I've made a decision to un. Retire the Podcast Answer man brand, I am not only committed to being here every week, my commitment is to release an episode for you every Friday. And I've determined that that episode will be available at 12:01am Eastern Time or Eastern Daylight Savings time, depending on what part of the year we're in. You'll get a new episode of Podcast Answer Man. I'm committed to that because that's the level of success that I want to have with this show. It's the level of commitment that I'm willing to make to be a part of your weekly routine.
- [26:28]
B
My second piece of advice is also a tip about how to grow a podcast and how I grew this podcast. When this podcast started, it was amazing. Me alone in my bedroom always in the early hours of the morning, stumbling around with a wire, my laptop, and this cheap little microphone. And I loved that. I'm so happy that's where this podcast started. It was great. But me talking about myself to my existing audience was never going to grow this podcast significantly in an organic way.
- [26:55]
A
Okay, I want to speak to this quote. He talks about the fact that he started out by by himself in his bedroom early in the mornings recording his podcast episodes. And he loves that he got started that way. He's very proud of that But I don't believe he meant it in a condescending way at all. I genuinely don't believe that. But it came off that way when he said me talking about myself to my existing audience is not going to grow my show. There is value of him talking about himself to his existing audience. That should never be underestimated. That is the key. I want to point out here. I'm not opposed to going out and finding guests and all sorts of other things. We'll get to that in a little bit more. But I just want to make sure that we don't take anything we hear from these massively successful interview style format shows with millions and millions of views. And there's a lot more that goes into how they got there than six or seven simple tips. There is so much value in a Steven Bartlett or anyone else who has done something that other people look up to, that they aspire to. There's something incredibly valuable about you talking about your experience to your existing audience. Now, his point is that doing that in every episode is not necessarily going to contribute to the growth of your show organically. And so I know that that's what he's saying, but I definitely felt there was this little tiny thing that somebody could take away. It's like, oh, yeah, I guess my show is me sharing a lot about my own to my existing audience. And there's just no way I'm going to be able to grow if I continue to do that. Well, stick around because I'm going to tell you, I think there are ways for you to grow your podcast. That is a solo hosted show where you primarily talk about your own journey, your own experience, the things that you're learning, the things that you're experiencing, the things that you're discovering and bringing that to your existing audience. And I think you can continue to grow your show to a new audience without going to guests and maybe switching over to a video format on YouTube. However, let's hear what he has to say about his own experience with growth, because that's exactly what he is doing right now. I'm an existing audience member within his community. He is talking about himself to me. And here's what he said about his own journey of audience growth.
- [29:53]
B
In order to grow this podcast, I had to find a way to reach new audiences and to pull them in. So I opened up this podcast to other entrepreneurs, to successful people, to the guests you've seen, to come here and share their diary in the way that I did when I started this podcast. And those guests bring their audience with them, and the podcast started to grow faster and faster and faster. Faster than ever before, it turns out. I actually also enjoyed that a lot more because I got to meet amazing people, learn from them, and be inspired by their stories. But it also saved me tons of time. When I did it on my own. I would honestly spend seven or eight hours planning and writing each episode. I had to do bullet points and figure out how I'd move from one bullet point to the next. And then if I wasn't happy, I'd rerecord the bullet point to try and nail it. It took a lot of time. Having a guest means I could just walk in, sit down, ask them the things I'm interested in, and have a great conversation, which now takes me just two hours to record. And as I said, I find it significantly more enjoyable because I get to learn from this incredibly diverse range of incredible, inspiring people from all walks of life. And I think generally you guys enjoy that too. I know some of you guys still love the solo episodes, but I think generally it's really enjoyable to get a really diverse range of inspiration from unexpected guests that a lot of the time you've never heard of before. In that format. I still get to weave in my own thoughts and ideas into every episode, although it is centered on the guest.
- [31:20]
A
Okay, so there are a few things that I want to address here. He said that in order to grow his podcast, he had to find a way to reach new audiences and pull them in. That is absolutely something I agree with, he said. So I opened up the podcast to other entrepreneurs, to successful people, and the guests that you have seen come here to share their diary in a way that I did when I first started the podcast. Those guests bring their audience with them and the podcast started to grow more than ever before. And he said it also turns out that he actually enjoyed doing interviews a lot more because he got to meet amazing people, learn from them, and get inspired by their stories. Here's what he doesn't tell you. He has an entire team and one person specifically on that team who is paid full time to help him book guests on his show. 52 weeks out of the year, he's got a new episode that he's committed to putting out in this interview format. Finding 52 guests that are that quality is a challenge that he really doesn't speak to. And the reason why is because it's not a challenge for him. Remember, he has the financial means to hire a team of people to do all of this booking and all of this guest research, all of this other stuff for him, which leads me to my next point that I want to bring up here. He says it saves him a ton of time. And my question is really, he said there. Just quickly says, I just show up, and I sit and have a conversation for two hours, and boom, I'm done. But is that really true? You see, I recently listened to the interview that he did, actually should say. I watched the interview that he did with Jimmy Fallon and later, because I watched that video on YouTube. YouTube showed me that Stephen Bartlett was interviewed by Jimmy Fallon on the Tonight Show. And here is a story that Stephen Bartlett told about one of the most challenging experiences he's had doing these interviews.
- [33:43]
B
There was this one day where I had two interviews in the same day. And my research team, bless them, they sent me the research. So they send me the books, the research. I click on the file, I start reading. I spend five hours reading the research. I am ready to go. I've watched all the videos. I know everything about this person. I know their kids, their favorite music, everything. And then I walk into the studio to meet the guest, and I look up, and I have no idea who this person is. I've accidentally done the research for the other guest that was coming on in the evening. So I've spent five hours in, and I didn't even know this person's name. So I walk up and I shake the hat, and we sit down. And my producer, who I think is actually here tonight, says to me, like, ready to go? And I don't know. I don't know what this person's name is, let alone what they do. So I said to the guy, I said, tell me. Tell me how you spell your name, which is what you do, right? And I'm hoping for, like, such a good move. Of course. Tell me how you spell.
- [34:33]
A
He's like, john.
- [34:34]
B
Yeah, this is a problem. If you. If you go for that strategy, it has to be like. Like an Anastasia, a Malika. It has to be something. The guy said his name was K, the letter K. His name was K. It's called Dr. K. They called him K. So I was a K. Okay, K or K a Y, or he's like, no, K. I go, yeah, I know. My first question to him. Producer goes, ready to go? My first question to him is, for anybody watching at home, Kay, if they don't know who you are and what you do, please, can you let them know and tell them why they should listen to this conversation. God bless them.
- [35:10]
A
He's like a Genius. Yeah.
- [35:12]
B
And he said he. Amazing answer. And do you know what? We had one of the most downloaded conversations in the show's history. Is that right? Yeah. It was one of my favorite conversations ever and it was one of the most downloaded that we've ever had. And it taught me to never do research. No, it taught me that as to be a good interviewer. Your job isn't to lead, it's to follow. And if you listen, people will take you where they want to go with a conversation because most people haven't had someone just listen to them really for like more than 10 minutes ever in their life. And it was, it was a beautiful conversation. So. Oh my God. Yeah. So now I don't do any research. Yeah, right.
- [35:51]
A
No, that's not true. So there you go. A little bit more behind the scenes information. If you dig deeper into these stories, there is much more going on than just a two hour conversation. Even when you have a team of eight people that you have hired to be fully devoted to your podcast, he's not just sitting there for two hours having a delightful conversation for just one interview. He is reading and studying and immersing himself into five hours of preparation before that two to three hour conversation on the podcast. Now, if you add that up, that's a total of seven to eight hours, which ironically is exactly the same amount of time that he said that he was putting together for a solo hosted episode. Now, here's what I will say. I'm not suggesting there isn't value in having interviews in your podcast. I'm just saying that when one of these folks says that, it's so much easier. I dropped my time production all the way down to two hours. I just show up, I record. Remember, he said at the end of
- [37:14]
B
the day, at the end of the day, I just sit here and talk. I get to have interesting conversations with people I genuinely find interesting.
- [37:22]
A
I'm afraid these are not telling the whole story when they say things like that. Let's continue on with the rest of his growing his audience strategy.
- [37:31]
B
If you want to grow your own podcast and you don't already have millions of followers, you need to figure out whether this growth is going to come from where that organic growth is coming from. Because Spotify and Apple podcasts, stores and apps don't have any viral discovery. You can't just hit, retweet or share in Spotify and send it to all your friends like you can on other social platforms like Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. The vast majority, I'd say over 95% of the discovery of podcasts. New podcasts happens outside of the Spotify and Apple podcast store. It happens on social networks, it happens in WhatsApp group chats. It happens in real life by sort of face to face, word of mouth recommendations. So to grow your podcast, you need to figure out how your podcast is going to reach a new, new audience and do it often. And for me, this is achieved in two ways. As I said, by bringing guests in, but also by having the YouTube channel. There's a lot of content discovery happening on YouTube. Every time you watch one video it recommends another. And sometimes that video is going to be the diary of a CEO. So we get a lot of new listeners coming in through the YouTube channel and in future they might decide to listen on Apple or Spotify or to stay on YouTube.
- [38:39]
A
Okay, let's break this down. First statement, if you want to grow your own podcast and you don't already have millions of followers, you need to figure out where this growth is going to come from. Yes, absolutely true. He said because Spotify and Apple podcast stores and apps don't have any viral discoverability functionality built into their platform. This also very true. Now he says that the vast majority, and he would guess that over 95% of the discovery of new podcasts happens outside of these podcast platforms now. Absolutely, he is right. I would say it's even probably closer to like 97%, all the way up to maybe even 99%. The last time I found a podcast by just randomly searching through some podcast directory was, well, I can't remember the last time. All the time I'm hearing somebody mention a podcast, I'm hearing somebody talk about something they just listened to. So yes, he's absolutely right that it is happening on social networks. As far as people discovering a new podcast for the first time it's happening on social networks, the WhatsApp group group chats, the real life conversations, happening face to face, those word of mouth recommendations. He is absolutely right. And so he says if you want to grow your podcast, you're going to need to figure out how your podcast is going to reach a new audience and do it often. And that is absolutely, I'm on board with that, all 1,000%. And then he says, for me, I have achieved this in two ways. Now I love that he isn't suggesting that these are the two ways that you should do it. So I just wanna be clear. I don't think that that's what he's saying here, but he is kind of suggesting that this is the kind of way that I went, and maybe this is a way you want to check out. But anyway, here's what he's got. Bringing in guests. I just want to remind you that finding 52amazing guests every year is a bit of a challenge. I know this because I've helped tens of thousands of people launch podcasts over the last 20 plus years. Also, I know that not all guests bring an audience with them. And if you hold yourself to the level of standard for your guests and the value they bring to your show, at least at the level that Steven Bartlett does, that gives him the ability to have the level of following that he does, even when he brings somebody onto his show that's not a high profile guest. There's just so much going into that recipe that makes Diary of a CEO the success that it is, that is not being discussed in this video by Stephen Bartlett. Anyway, so he says, the second avenue for me to reach the that new audience often is by having a YouTube channel. And I will say that having a YouTube channel is a perfect option for some people. But then again, I'm very clear to point out it is a horrific option for other people. If not done well, a YouTube channel could do more harm and to your professional brand than any help it might give you in discoverability. You see, there's always been something true about audio production. It is relatively easy for you to create one of the greatest sounding audio podcasts out there. But when you're creating a video production, you're competing against people who have entire teams of video production professionals filming, editing, all aspects of that video production, and they're doing it on sets that cost over $100,000. And in Stephen Bartlett's case, just the equipment alone was over a $55,000 investment.
- [43:08]
B
My fourth point is probably the point you guys want to know about the most, which is money. Okay, so as I said, I only started doing this podcast once a week 10 months ago. That's when we made the decision to take it seriously and to be consistent. Before then, before 10 months ago, the podcast was basically just a hobby. Ten months ago, when I realized I was going to do this podcast once a week and launch this YouTube channel, which meant videoing the podcast for the first time and really, really, really go for it, I realized I would need camera equipment, a location to film, and a team to help me put this whole thing together. I've never, ever cared about making a profit from this podcast. This fits into the things I do because I love it. Bucket in my life and my goal As I said to the team at the time was just to break even. Jack Sylvester, who I produced this podcast with, made a shopping list of all the equipment we would need to make a high quality production and the total for all that equipment came to roughly £4,000. I saw that list and I said, I want you to really go for it. I want to produce one of the best podcasts in the world. Come back to me with another list that is even more ambitious. A few days later, Jack came back to me with an equipment list that cost £40,000, which is about $55,000. He wanted seven cameras. Some of them are robots that move by themselves up and down the room. Some of them are sliders. We've got GoPros, State of the art audio software. We've got the best microphones, the best lighting, blackout blinds, you name it, it's here. And we really obsessed about the small details of this room, the set and how it would make you feel and how the feel of the set would impact the content itself. Additionally, if we're going to publish four podcasts a month across video and audio and then promote these podcasts across social media with video clips, but also find really high level guests, we're going to need a team. So here's who I hired. Jack, who produces the podcast. I also have a full time podcast booker called Harry who contacts potential guests. I have a full time PR manager, Emma Berta, who produces the video assets and clips for this podcast and other projects. Callum, who produces more video clips for the podcast. Grace, who handles the social media across all of my channels. Dom, my manager who works with sponsors and on brand deals. And of course Sophie, my long standing assistant who helps me organize my diary and and logistics across all areas of my life. So in total I have a team of eight people that are involved in the production of this podcast in various ways. It's not cheap, especially if you want to do it properly.
- [45:34]
A
And the uncomfortable truth is is that some people will go and hear one of these videos from one of these super successful people and they'll say, oh, okay, I get it. I'm a brand new person into this online space. I have dozens of years of experience, I am very gifted in communication. And you know what? No, I don't have any social media following. No, I don't have any media presence. No, my message has never gone viral. But in my industry I'm fairly well respected. You take somebody like that who has some disposable income, ask them to invest $55,000 into building out a podcast studio, have them hire eight staff members to run this video production, upload episodes of conversations every single week. You do that, that person is going to be out all of that money. Because without a reputation and the audience and the influence and the relationships and the pre existing demand that Stephen Bartlett had when he started his show, doing those things will not produce a million dollar show. And see, that's the thing. His whole video is titled how I make 1.2 million a year from this podcast. And he starts the podcast off by
- [47:06]
B
saying, I'm going to show you exactly how much money I make from this podcast, how I do it, how I did it, and how anyone else can do it too with six or seven simple pieces of advice.
- [47:17]
A
And that is dangerous advice. And so while I agree that yes, we as podcasters, if we want to grow our podcast subscriber audience, we need to consistently get in front of new people. I want to share with you what I didn't hear from Stephen Bartlett. Number one, the most effective way for you to get in front of a new audience who doesn't already know who you are is to appear on other people's podcasts. Being a guest on another podcast where your exact ideal listener is already tuning in to someone else's podcast. They're already educated on what a podcast is. They're already the type of person who is consistently tuning in to content related to your niche topic, to your industry, to your area of focus. They are already the type of person who will routinely make that kind of content a part of their listening lifestyle. Not only that, while they're listening to you as a guest on the show, if that host of the show is somebody that they know, they like and they trust, and that host brings you on and you have rapport with them and they give you their seal of approval and ask their audience to go into their favorite podcast app of choice to search for your podcast and subscribe to your show. There is nothing, there's nothing out there that's going to get you more new listeners for your podcast than that. It will work much Better than any YouTube algorithm or celebrity guests. Stephen did mention this lightly, but the second thing that you could do is involve yourself in niche specific communities. He mentioned that a majority of discoverability of new podcasts are happening in social platforms. So get involved, involved in Reddit groups, Facebook groups, Discord communities, LinkedIn groups, Slack channels and forums online that are devoted to the very special niche topic that your show covers. Engaging in these communities, showing up and serving there, building credibility for yourself as A person of influence and service in these communities will convert listeners to your podcast. A third way that you could get in front of a new audience is strategic keyword targeting in podcasting apps. You know, most podcasters never even touch search engine optimization that happens automatically inside of Apple podcasts or Spotify. If you actually start using the right titles with the right keywords, you will get free discovery for your podcast every day of the week. A fourth way that you can do this is to create short form content on social channels such as TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram. What many people are doing is they take the audio of their podcast and put it to some B roll footage. Or those of you who are doing these interviews via Riverside or whatever platform you're streaming these side by side interviews, sometimes you're taking those and clipping those up and putting those out into short form content. Those are debatable about how effective they are in gaining new listeners to your podcast. That's not what any of those people on those platforms are looking for, is a new podcast. Right now, what they are looking for are creators that they will come to know, like and trust and look forward to their new short form content that is developed for that platform. And so for me, one of the strategies that I'm taking is I'm not necessarily using YouTube shorts or TikTok or Facebook or Instagram Reels and these three minute short form videos. I'm not trying to get get those people to subscribe to my podcast. Instead, I'm looking to grow my presence on each of those platforms individually. You see, a podcast is simply one platform and it would be ridiculous to try to convince you as my listener to the podcast Answer man podcast. If I was just going to come here every single episode and try to convince you to follow me on TikTok, that just doesn't make sense. If I see myself first and foremost as a TikToker, I'm a TikTok influencer. You would get very tired of me coming here and taking the audio of my TikTok videos and trying to convince you to come follow me on TikTok all the time. This is what we're doing as podcasters in all of these other platforms. Instead, what we could do is we could embrace those platforms and show up where those people want to be, which is scrolling up and through the channels. Now, if you develop a relationship and rapport there, that is very shareable. And the idea is that you are what you want to attract your audience to, not just your podcast. Your podcast could be one channel, but you could attract an audience for your YouTube channel. You could attract an audience for Your for your TikTok channel, your Instagram channel, your Facebook channel, your LinkedIn channel, your X channel, whatever social channel you have. My recommendation is don't try to grow your podcast, grow your influence, grow your community. And once those people who have never heard your name before come to really value the content that you're clearly creating for their platform of choice, and they see you among one of their favorite content creators on that platform, they come to know, like and trust you. It's those people who might just be interested when they learn that you also have a podcast. And of course the next tip that I would give is email newsletters. There's still nothing that competes with the value of showing up in somebody's email inbox. You've got somebody who is going to receive every email you send them because they have chosen to hear from you. And if you put a narrative story in there and a compelling reason why somebody might want to listen to one of your podcast episodes and they find it intriguing, they may just end up not only listening, but subscribing. And another add on tip there, cross sharing newsletters. Cross promoting. You share about somebody in your newsletter and they agree to in return share about you in their newsletter. It works shockingly well, especially if there is a very good reason for them to need to listen to an episode that just knocks people's socks off. The sixth recommendation I would have is guest feature articles. You don't need to be famous to show up and start writing for Medium or LinkedIn articles, substack blogs, industry publications. The great news is if you have a powerful podcast episode and you can link to it in a way that feels right, these articles live forever on the web and can push new listeners to your podcast and the archives of your show forever. The seventh way that I have grown my audience over the years is speaking engagements. Speaking on public stages at conferences has been a primary way for me to gain new followers and of course podcast listeners since 2012 as a primary focus for marketing myself to a new audience. But you can also do this on virtual events. You can show up for people's webinars. You could be a guest in their virtual summits. You could speak to other people's mastermind groups that they've assembled. There's a lot you can do to grow your audience through speaking engagements, whether they're offline or online. The eighth way is direct listener referrals. Facilitate this by saying, hey, if this episode Speaks to a challenge of someone that you know. Will you share this with that friend? Send them an email today. Maybe you'll do listener referral shout outs. Maybe somebody reaches out to you via an email and says, hey, a friend of mine just told me about your podcast and I clicked through to listen and such and such and such and such. If that ever happens. One of the things that I have the opportunity to do is to say, hey, I just got an email from so and so and they said that they heard about it from so and so. I'm going to mention both names in my show and both of them are even more likely to share that episode with other people they both know because they got a shout out. There's a lot that you can do to direct your listeners to bring about referrals to your show. You could simply end every episode by saying, share this episode with somebody you thought about while you were listening. A ninth way that you can promote your show to a new audience to get in front of people who are not already in your community is by paid promotion. You could do targeted ads with a tiny budget if you wanted to. You could devote five to $10 per day campaigns and you don't have to do it every day of the month, but you could play around with five to $10 per day campaigns on Facebook and Instagram. I think that you can do ads on Spotify. I know that you can do ad placement on the Overcast app. I believe that Podcast Addict does promoted ad placement. If you have a niche podcast, then you can target specific niche shows with paid promotion. And these ads are showing up above or inside of the apps where people are listening to other podcasts that are your exact industry, your niche. These way outperform YouTube massively for dollars spent in advertising. And then the bonus tip that I would give you is that niching down even further. If your show is too broad, I encourage you to just go a little bit more More niche. It makes it easier for word of mouth, it makes it easier for you to stand out as an authority. It makes it easier for you to win in search results and it will ultimately lead to much faster growth. A general business podcast today is virtually invisible. However, a podcast for first time restaurant owners or software as a service founders under 30 or women in cybersecurity, those shows are going to grow. Bottom line. Stephen Bartlett started off his podcast and he gave some really good advice. You do need to be consistent. You do need to address the growth challenges that come with just speaking about yourself to your existing audience. You're going to need to get out in front of a new audience that does not yet know you and you need to do it consistently. And yes, having guests can help over time. For some it can also be a Hindrance and for YouTube, for some it's great and some it's a major distraction that will only put obstacles in your way and and if not done well, it could do more to harm your brand than to help it. These are my thoughts after listening to this video by Stephen Bartlett. I respect this man immensely. I'm going to put a link to the full podcast episode because I didn't share the rest of his tips. They go into the insane level of detail and quality and the high standards that he has and he goes on and on about how he skips the middleman when it comes to earning money with sponsors. And there are quite frankly a lot of things that are only accessible if you happen to be a millionaire and you have a network, professional network of celebrity status, a list and a massive following where it makes sense to you. So I didn't bring the rest of that in here, but it's still a very powerful episode and I'm going to put a link like I said in the show notes and I would encourage you to listen to it if you are thinking about launching a podcast or you would like to have me as your coach for four weeks as we brainstorm how to take your production to a whole new level of success. My next session of Podcasting A to Z is coming up on January 26th. This is the same course that nearly 700 graduates have come out and created professional sounding podcasts within four weeks. Some of these people had no experience and today are seen as thought leaders and industry leaders in their own niche. You're gonna hear a lot about them in the year ahead because I'm doing lots of where are they now Interviews. People who started out with shaky voices in their friends first episodes to now having anywhere between 700 to 900 episodes and creating businesses that turned into on the low end multiple six figures on the upward ends in the seven figures and have even successfully sold those businesses and are doing some pretty amazing things in the world. Lots to share with you. But if you are just getting started and you want to launch a podcast or if you have an existing podcast and you would like to have me as your personal coach for four weeks helping you take your message, your business and your life to a whole new level of success, check out podcasting a to z.com it is a four week group cohort program and one of the biggest benefits out of everything else there. You get unlimited access to me for four weeks. You can ask me an unlimited number of questions, and I have a commitment to answer every single question you ask. That is how I've developed a relationship with hundreds of these students who have gone through Podcasting A to Z in the past, and I look forward to that potential lifelong relationship with you. Head over to podcastinga to z.com again. Podcasting a to z.com until next time. I encourage you to take everything you do to the next level. Podcast Answer Man.