485 - An In-Depth, Thoughtful Defense of Why RSS Still Matters

Summary

Podcast Answer Man – Episode 485 Summary

Overview

In this episode of Podcast Answer Man, host Cliff Ravenscraft sits down with Brian Erickson, CEO and co-founder of Cincinnati Podcast Studio, to have an in-depth and respectful discussion about the ongoing debate over what defines a podcast and, specifically, why the RSS feed remains crucial to podcasting’s identity. Through their spirited exchange, Cliff passionately explains why he believes RSS feeds are core to the definition and freedom of podcasting, while Brian challenges and explores the evolving views in the industry. This episode serves as both a defense of “classic” podcasting principles and an open-minded look at how the medium is changing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Is a Podcast? – The Importance of the RSS Feed

[04:36–07:01]

• The conversation opens with Brian questioning the boundary between “a show” and “a podcast,” using the YouTube-exclusive show “Dropping Names with Brent and Johnny” as an example.
• Cliff asserts the technical definition: a podcast is any episodic content distributed through RSS feeds with a media enclosure. If it can’t be subscribed to in a podcast app via RSS, it isn’t a podcast.

Notable Quote:

“A podcast is defined by any episodic content that is delivered via an RSS feed via a media enclosure. That is the definition of a podcast.”
— Cliff Ravenscraft, [06:13]

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2. Local Downloads, Streaming, and the Future of Podcasting

[07:01–09:15]

• Brian raises the idea that the future of podcasts might be streaming-only, as is popular in other media formats.
• Cliff recounts scenarios (such as long flights) where local downloads—facilitated by RSS—are essential for listeners.
• Even with “download” features in streaming apps (like YouTube Premium or Netflix), Cliff maintains this does not make a show a podcast unless it's delivered via an RSS feed.

Notable Quote:

“Just having it be the format of people just chatting and having it less polished ... that isn’t what makes a podcast. A podcast is a technical term of how the media is delivered.”
— Cliff Ravenscraft, [07:24]

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3. Pop Culture Versus Technical Definitions

[09:53–10:50]

• The discussion turns to the blurring of terms. Brian and guests note that the word “podcast” is being applied to video shows, YouTube series, and other non-RSS content.
• Cliff uses analogies: “Coke” for any cola, “Kleenex” for tissues, to show how terms get generalized, while also emphasizing that only a Kleenex is a Kleenex, and only RSS-delivered content is truly a podcast.

Notable Quote:

“Pop culture can call it what it wants, but only a Kleenex is a Kleenex... There is going to be an overwhelming majority of people who are ignorant of what a podcast is, and they're gonna call what they consume or create a podcast.”
— Cliff Ravenscraft, [10:50]

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4. Control, Gatekeeping, and the Value of the RSS Feed

[12:28–16:43]

• Cliff underscores the historical importance of RSS in podcasting: removing gatekeepers (radio/tv program directors) and enabling anyone to reach an audience without censorship or platform dependency.
• He explains that even if a podcast is delisted from Spotify or Apple, the RSS feed continues to deliver episodes to existing subscribers—guaranteeing control and direct access.

Notable Quote:

“The thing is, is if my content is only available on YouTube, my content is only available here...and if there’s no RSS feed, I am not in control. I do not have a direct relationship with my subscriber. In podcasting, the person who subscribed to my feed has my feed. And I’m the one who puts what’s in the feed, and nobody is in between us. That’s why this needs to be protected.”
— Cliff Ravenscraft, [16:12]

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5. Platform Risk and the Independence RSS Provides

[17:43–20:17]

• The discussion touches on de-platforming: Brian references high-profile social media bans (including a U.S. president) and what creators lose when reliant on platforms.
• Cliff and Brian both share cautionary tales of creators being banned, delisted, or having accounts removed on social media and video platforms—even when not posting controversial content.
• Cliff concludes that only by controlling your RSS feed do you own your communication channel—platforms cannot take that away.

Notable Quote:

“If he, from the very beginning, delivered all of his 140 character updates via an RSS feed, they could have taken him out of Twitter, but anyone who was subscribed to his RSS feed, he would still be able to instantly communicate with the millions… You’ll never have anyone able to take that communication channel away from you.”
— Cliff Ravenscraft, [18:40], [20:17]

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6. Technical Ownership: RSS Feeds and Hosting

[20:38–21:44]

• The group briefly debates whether Amazon S3 or platform hosting is truly “ownership.”
• Cliff details how portable and simple an RSS feed is; should one host (like S3) fail or ban them, a podcaster can simply move files, update the RSS URLs, and listeners don’t lose access.

Notable Quote:

“I own my RSS feed, I own my URL, I own my domain.”
— Cliff Ravenscraft, [21:44]

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Memorable Moments & Quotes

• The analogy of podcasting and Coke/Kleenex—in how words morph meanings but clarity and precision matter.
  [10:24–10:50]

• Direct challenges to pop culture's embrace of “video podcasts”
  [07:24, 09:41]

• The comparison with Joe Rogan no longer having a podcast because it’s exclusive to Spotify
  [10:50–11:48]

• The passionate defense of podcasting’s origin story and mission as a medium “without gatekeepers”
  [12:28–14:21]

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Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |------------|-----------------------------------------------------------| | 04:36 | When is a show a podcast? The Brent & Johnny example | | 06:13 | Cliff’s clear definition of a podcast | | 07:24 | Streaming-only shows: “Why that’s not a podcast” | | 10:24 | Coke/Kleenex analogy | | 12:28 | Gatekeepers and podcasting’s independence | | 16:12 | Control via RSS vs. platform gatekeeping | | 17:43 | Platform bans and the President/YouTube creator examples | | 20:17 | Why RSS guarantees you can always reach your audience | | 21:44 | “I own my RSS feed, I own my domain" |

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Tone & Language

The episode is thoughtful, passionate, yet respectful. Cliff’s tone is patient but firm in defending the RSS-centric view of podcasting. Brian adds genuine curiosity and openness, testing the boundaries and representing how newer creators and industry outsiders think. There’s a friendly, constructive debate vibe.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• RSS feeds are the backbone of podcasting’s definition—they grant creators independence, audience control, and freedom from platform gatekeepers.
• Pop culture and platforms increasingly blur “podcast” terminology, but technical roots still matter for the medium’s unique value.
• Cliff encourages creators to embrace multi-platform distribution, but always maintain and promote their RSS-powered podcast feed.

Final Words:

“Until next time, I encourage you to go publish some content into your RSS feed and take everything you do to the next level.”
— Cliff Ravenscraft, [End]

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Further Resources

• Full YouTube interview and studio tour: Link in show notes.

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This episode is a masterclass for creators on understanding and defending the technology and freedoms that made podcasting unique—serving as both a practical guide and a philosophical manifesto for the future.

Transcript

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

In this episode of Podcast Answer Man,

[Brian Erickson]

I sit down and have a meaningful

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

and very respectful conversation with somebody who had a very different take on what makes a podcast a podcast and how important an RSS feed is. That's what I'm going to share with you in this episode of Podcast Answer Man. Well, hello, hello my friend, and welcome back to another episode of Podcast answerman. My name is Cliff Ravenscraft and this, my friend, is the podcast devoted to podcasting, helping you take your message, your business and your life to the next level. That's right. It doesn't matter if you are brand new to this content Creating World or if you've been podcasting for many years, there's something we can all do to take everything we do with our RSS feed to the next level.

[Brian Erickson]

Oh my goodness.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

Having way too much fun in life and in business. And in this episode, I'm going to share with you a very short 18 and a half minute clip from a conversation that I had with Brian Erickson, who happens to be the CEO and co founder of the Cincinnati Podcast Studio. He and his business partner Josh created a studio that is devoted to helping content creators, businesses, marketing departments, or anybody else who wants to create super high quality video and audio content and even

[Brian Erickson]

more specifically video podcasts effortlessly.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

And to do so in a way that doesn't require you to build your own studio setup with thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars and hiring an entire team of people, they'll do it all for you. By the way, don't tune out. This is not an advertisement for Cincinnati Podcast Studio. However, if you do want to hear the hour and a half interview that I did with Brian, I'm going to put a link to the YouTube version of this in my show notes. And the reason why is because if I were going to do a video version of a podcast and I wanted to sit down and have an interview with guests, that video shows you the level of quality that I would want to produce every single week for the show. Again, link in the show notes. But what I'm sharing with you in this episode is a topic that has come up quite a bit here in the Podcast Answer man podcast, and it's important to me to continue to be one who defends the definition of a podcast and who is an advocate for not losing the understanding of the importance of an RSS feedback. And what I love about this conversation that I had with Brian Erickson is the fact that he clearly brings to the dialogue the mentality and mindset that I've witnessed With so many people who are just willing to say, you know what, let's just drop this whole fight about the definition of podcasting. Let's just embrace anyone who thinks what they have is a podcast, and let's just celebrate the fact that we're just bringing more people into the content, creating space. And as far as I'm concerned, even if there's no RSS feed involved, but if they're out there creating content and they're doing it consistently and putting out episode after episode of their show and they call it a podcast, then that's great. It just means it's bringing up everything, the awareness of podcasting. And I'm like, that there is a reason why that just doesn't sit well with somebody such as myself.

[Brian Erickson]

And so what I love about this

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

conversation is that we get to hear Brian share his perspective. And I appreciate his perspective. I also share how respectfully I can make a defense for why the RSS feed is important. And I'm gonna let you hear this conversation right here, right now.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

That is why I see this future of podcasting to be a world where video and audio is combined in this happy medium where both work and both exist. But I think one of the things that I'm curious about from your definition, when does it become a show versus a podcast?

[Brian Erickson]

So there is a brand new show that was launched. It is being promoted.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

Wow.

[Brian Erickson]

We have this great podcast. It's called Dropping Names with Brent and Johnny.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

Have you heard of it?

[Unidentified Interviewer]

No, I have not.

[Brian Erickson]

So it's Brent Spiner and Jonathan Franks from Star Trek the Next Generation.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

Yes.

[Brian Erickson]

I consumed the entire first episode, one hour and six minutes, on YouTube because it's the only place it's available. And if you go to their YouTube channel and click on the podcasts tab, it's listed there as well. But the only thing that's there is the video. And every single day since it's came out, I've looked for it in the Apple podcast directory, I've looked for it in Spotify. I'd look for it anywhere. There is no audio version of this. And unfortunately, I don't think there will ever be a video version in the podcast feed. I'm beginning to question whether or not they're even going to release the podcast version. Although I did screen capture something that in their promotion, they said subscribe to the show and they show the Apple podcast logo. But here's what I will tell you. So far, it's got millions of views already, but they do not have a podcast. They have A show.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

So you'd say an RSS feed is a differentiator.

[Brian Erickson]

A podcast is defined by any episodic content that is delivered via an RSS feedback via a media enclosure. That is the definition of a podcast. And so if I can't put your RSS feed into an RSS reader or a podcast app of my choice and then hit subscribe and hit either play or download, if that can't, go get the file that is the episode and download it into my device so that I can play it wherever I want, whenever I want. If that episodic media isn't delivered to my device via the media enclosure of an RSS feed, it is not a podcast. That is what makes a podcast a podcast.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

That's interesting because I see the future of podcasts potentially being a space where local delivery is not required. Because I don't see like there's so much of this world that is completely going to streaming that podcasts in my head could live in a world that are only available via streaming, not available via download. Would you say that would still be a podcast?

[Brian Erickson]

No. So I've heard there's been some people have talked about the fact that podcasts are coming to Netflix. I'm like, no, they're not. Episodic shows are coming, miniseries are coming to Netflix, videos of people talking to each other and having conversations are coming. But no podcasts are coming to Netflix unless whatever is on Netflix can also be subscribed to an RSS feed. The thing is, is episodic media streamed online has been around forever. Just having it be the format of people just chatting and having it less polished and produced and stuff. That isn't what makes a podcast a podcast. A podcast is a technical term of how the media is delivered. So let me ask you this. Have you ever went on an airplane trip for two to four hours or. I went on a flight to New Zealand, took 17 hours to get there. Have you ever been on any of those flights? Well, some of them today have. They have WI fi, but it's spotty

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

at best, if available at all.

[Brian Erickson]

And so I can't imagine a four hour flight without a podcast to consume. But if it was only available via streaming, not gonna be able to do it.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

Okay, so here's another question for you then. Streamers like Netflix have the ability to do local downloads.

[Brian Erickson]

Local download, absolutely. And it is a. To the point we were talking about earlier. It is a show that I can download in that app. By the way, dropping Names with Brent and Johnny is a show on YouTube. I'm a premium subscriber, so I can download it. That doesn't make it a podcast. It's only a podcast when that content is enclosed into a media file such that my device can go and get that media file and download it directly to my device.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

Yes. Well, I like it.

[Brian Erickson]

And. Or stream it to my device.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

I think you're right. I think that is a great definition and one that I feel. Pop culture has shifted.

[Brian Erickson]

Yeah. There is no doubt in my mind that there's a runaway train of people who are calling what they have a podcast when they have no idea what an RSS feed is or a media enclosure. It's like, oh, my gosh, I. I got three cameras, got it set up.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

I've got Final Cut Pro. I got my microphones.

[Brian Erickson]

We're sitting here in our own studio at home, and by golly, we edit it all together, upload it to YouTube. We've got a podcast. No, you've got a show.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

That's. That's so interesting because I would agree that. I think that is what the definition of a podcast is. And that's why I love that places like Spotify and other and other podcasting platforms have created video podcast RSS feeds. I think it's wonderful. I'm curious if in the next 10 years, even though the technical definition of a podcast is that I wonder if pop culture is going to take over that term and change it down the road.

[Brian Erickson]

Well, it's kind of like, I'd like to have a Coke. You sit down and they bring you a Pepsi. You know, hey, I'm having a Coke here. It's not a Coke, it's a Pepsi. But people call it a Coke, right? You know, or what is the other one? A Kleenex. It's like, hey, can I have a Kleenex?

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

Dude, that is a great value tissue.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

Right?

[Brian Erickson]

Pop culture can call it what it was, but only a Kleenex is a Kleenex. Yeah, I can see the writing on the wall. There is going to be an overwhelming majority of people who are ignorant of what a podcast is, and they're gonna call what they are subscribed to, or what they follow, what they consume and or create. They'll call it a podcast. But there will always be those of us out there who understand that the benefit of a podcast is something that a YouTube channel. So, for example, there was a time when Joe Rogan had the most popular podcast in the world, and then they made it such that Spotify took over and they made it to where you could only subscribe to the Joe Rogan show on Spotify. And then people continued to say that Joe Rogan had the number one podcast in the world. And I'm like, joe Rogan no longer has a podcast.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

Mm. They had it set up to where

[Brian Erickson]

you could only get delivered those new episodes of his content on the Spotify app.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

See, I'm one of those sort of people where I am like, I stand at the door of the word podcast and say, come one, come all, because I think it's only better for our industry the more people that are a part of it. And so even if there are these people who are calling something a podcast, and it's not really a podcast, it's a YouTube show, or it's even a short form show on Instagram, or it's all these other things, I'm of the perspective that that actually helps our industry more than it ever hurts us.

[Brian Erickson]

It depends on a couple of factors. There's so much importance in my mind on what happens when something is delivered via the RSS feed. So, for example, there are a couple of things. There are gatekeepers. One of the biggest values that podcasting brought about when it first came out was there was no longer a gatekeeper. So let's just say we go all the way back to early 2004, before Adam Curry and Dave Weiner discovered the addition of the media enclosure into the rss. And it was later then called podcasting. Before that, if I wanted to create episodic content and put it out to an audience, I'd have to go to a television station or a radio station. And the only way I could build an audience was getting through the program director. And he was a gatekeeper. Not only that, there. There may have even been licensure and all sorts of other things that were involved. But when podcasting came around, all of a sudden, anyone with a microphone, anyone with a web media host. So I could use Amazon S3, I don't need a podcast host even. I can just put an mp3 file up on Amazon S3. I can hand code an RSS feed into a text file and save it as a XML file, and I can upload it also on Amazon S3 and then point people to that and say, here's my RSS feed. And anyone on the planet has the ability to put that in an RSS reader or any podcast app of choice and instantly download that content. Nobody can block me from reaching my audience. YouTube can ban my channel. Spotify can delist me out of the platform. Apple Podcasts could take me out of the directory and all of those things.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

However, as it is today, let's just

[Brian Erickson]

say 15,000 people are subscribed to my podcast, and they did it through the Apple Podcasts app. And let's just say another 15,000 people are subscribed to my podcast via the Spotify app. That's where they found me.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

They went and searched for me in the directory because they heard about my

[Brian Erickson]

podcast somehow, and they found me because I was in the directory. Now, what if both of those platforms decided one day to delist me? I can continue as a podcaster to publish new episodes, and all 30,000 of those people will continue to get my content because those apps, both Spotify and Apple, are not reading the content from the directory. They're reading it from my RSS feed. So even though new subscribers can't go into Apple and search and find my podcast, anybody who is still subscribed, those 30,000 people still. Now, let's just say I'm speaking to an audience, and it's 5,000 people, and they're all 2,500 of them are Spotify user, Spotify app users, and 2,500 of them are. Are Apple podcast users. All right, I can put my RSS feed right here on my last slide of my talk and say, listen, guys, for some reason, I'm not allowed any longer to be on Spotify or in the Apple podcast already. But go ahead and open up your Spotify app, and in the search box, type in this URL, and they can do it. And instantly, they're still. Those 5,000 new subscribers are still going to be able to subscribe to my content anywhere in the world, still download it. There's. See, the thing is, is if I.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

If.

[Brian Erickson]

If my content is only available on YouTube, my content is only available here and all of these things. And if there's no if. I do not have an RSS feed, I am not in control. I do not have a direct relationship with my subscriber. So they're in podcasting. The person who subscribed to my feed has my feedback, and I'm the one who puts what's in the feed, and nobody is in between us. That's why this needs to be protected.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

Hmm.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

I love that perspective. And I think that's one that even I hadn't really thought through a whole lot, because generally speaking, I have grown up in this space where most media that I have created or even consumed, I've never owned, because I've never owned the platform that they've been hosted on. And so what's really interesting to me is from the perspective of someone, here I am, I'm 32 years old. I see this world of there's a platform for everybody. Even if a certain platform chooses to say, you know what? I don't like having you here. I'm like, great, I'll go to another one. Cause there's other platforms out there, other audiences, those sort of things. But I love the beauty that you talk about. It's kind of like the people who are avid newsletter fans like getting their own subscribers the same way with RSS feeds. I think that's a fascinating and fantastic idea. And part of me also kind of asked the question of, why do we need to worry about getting delisted? Are we creating a bunch of content that we shouldn't be?

[Brian Erickson]

Okay, well, let's go there for just a moment.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

I love it. Let's hear it.

[Brian Erickson]

All right, so I'm not sure if you can remember just a few years back, but the President of the United States was taken off of the number one communications platform in the world, The President of the United States. And if it can happen to him now, you might say, well, Cliff, he said some pretty outrageous things. And the thing is, okay, he could just go somewhere else. And of course he did. He went over and he created his own platform. Right.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

But did everybody go follow him? No.

[Brian Erickson]

He lost access to. To millions of people. That's what he lost. And that was completely out of his control. Whereas if he, from the very beginning,

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

delivered all of his 140 character updates

[Brian Erickson]

via an RSS feed, they could have taken him out of Twitter. But anybody who was subscribed to his RSS feed, he would still be able to instantly communicate with the millions of people that were there. You speak about the fact that you're a Christian, and there may be a time when Christians and the content that they're creating is not something that is agreeable to somebody else who is not in alignment with that message. And so they might say, you know what? Banned. You know, and that can happen.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

And it does happen.

[Brian Erickson]

It does. People get delisted off of Twitter. Their Facebook accounts get banned. I just watched a guy on TikTok the other day. He's like, okay, guys, I'm here with the new channel. I've been creating content for the last seven years. I had 13 million followers here on the platform. I've never said anything that was against anything. And there were enough people who went in and reported, and now my account is permanently banned. And they won't respond to any of the requests. And so here I am. And he was, you know, he's at 14,000 subscribers. He had millions. Yeah. And he's literally starting over again. And I will tell you, the same thing can happen on any YouTube channel. And so I am all for create a YouTube channel. I have a YouTube channel. Put your podcast content on there, but also create an RSS feed version of it.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

And you'll never. Anybody who is subscribed to you via the RSS feed.

[Brian Erickson]

You'll never have anybody able to take that communication channel away from you. And to your point, it does happen, and you do not have to think of anything. You might even think that the most moral thing that you might stand up for could be the one thing that gets you banned.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

The interesting thing for me, and I don't wanna belabor this point, is the example that you gave of like using Amazon S3. You don't own that either. You can get pulled off of S3.

[Brian Erickson]

I do own that. I own the content that's on there. And at any point in time, if Amazon S3 goes down, then I just go over to any other hosting platform, upload my files, and I go into my RSS feed, which I do own, and I go in and I do a batch edit. The file names have not changed. I the location URL of where they all exist has changed. Go into this text file, which is nothing. That's all an RSS feed is. This is just a text file with with RSS coding in it.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

Replace every string of URL that was

[Brian Erickson]

Amazon S3 with this hit, save, upload, hit thing. And then everybody who is subscribed to my podcast will then get it from the other platform instead of Amazon S3. I own it. I own my RSS feed, I own my URL, I own my domain.

[Unidentified Interviewer]

I love it. And I think you might have convinced me.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

Well, there you go. That was my conversation. And I love that I was able to convince him of the importance of that RSS feed. You know, this was a completely unscripted conversation. In fact, it started out, and the intention was for it to be an interview where I was simply going to interview my Brian about his video podcasting studio and put it into my what are you creating?

[Brian Erickson]

Podcast. And then he's like, hey, Cliff, why

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

don't you come over and interview me in the studio and I'll give you a tour?

[Brian Erickson]

And I'm like, that's amazing.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

So we turned it into a video podcast interview. And I told him, I said, hey, if you're open to it, we could do whatever we want. There's no format rules or anything like that. If you want to ask me questions, anything you want to do. And so it started off as an interview and we moved into a conversation about audio versus video and then what you just heard about the RSS feed. At the very least, I would encourage you to check out the video quality of what I think. Man, if I, if I had a studio like that or if I were interested in investing in studio time and traveling every single week, that would be the setup.

[Brian Erickson]

That would be the exact ideal kind of setup that would get me excited.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

But at the same time, I gotta tell you, as an audio only lover of content, both actually consuming audio only and also on the creator side, I love not creating the video element. I love the fact that there has not been an episode of Podcast Answerman that is video, no camera involved in the recording of any of these episodes. And I love it because it just keeps me grounded to talking to you. And I don't need to perform for a camera. I don't need to record for an hour or so and then realize that there was cilantro in my teeth. I don't need to fix my hair, I don't have to put on a fancy shirt. I could just sit here and record and the pressure is not on.

[Brian Erickson]

I love it.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

I can edit it into bed bits and pieces. I could record it in bits and pieces.

[Brian Erickson]

I love audio.

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

I love audio. I love audio.

[Brian Erickson]

But I gotta tell you,

[Cliff Ravenscraft]

there is a little bit of a something in seeing the quality of that multi camera 4K. It was a three camera shoot, 4K video. It's pretty sweet. Again, check it out. Show Notes has the link to the full interview on my YouTube channel. Hey, before I wrap up here, I want to just let you know that if you are on the entrepreneurial path, if you're a professional author, speaker, coach, course creator, if you're an online business owner, if you're a business owner that has one to five employees, or like myself, living that solopreneur life, if at any point during your journey you've ever felt alone or isolated, that you wish you had somebody that you could bounce ideas off of, if you just wish, wish you could find somebody else who has gone through all of the trial and error when it comes to publishing a book, or when it comes to launching a course, or when it comes to doing something unique and different with your podcast content creation, or doing things on LinkedIn to network with people, or speaking on a stage for the first time, or outlining talks, or all of the stuff. What if you could live life with other people who are doing the same things you are interested in doing in the world, where you could bring all of your experience, the things that you've learned, your skills, talents and abilities. What if you could, on a weekly basis, bring all that you have to offer in support of and for the success of every other person in this small group that gathers together, where all of them will bring all of their education, all of their experience, all of their skills, talents and abilities for your success, taking everything that they've learned so that you can eliminate about 60, 70, maybe even 80% of all the trial and error that are a part of doing life and business in an isolated manner. I want to invite you to consider the Next Level Mastermind. We just relaunched the Next Level Mastermind here in February of 2026. We've already got two members within the first two weeks. This is something that has been the, I'd say the most impactful thing I've ever created when it comes to helping people take their message, their business and their life to the Next level. I have been a part of a Mastermind group myself with Pat Flynn ever since October. He and I have met together every single week. And then outside of that, since 2012, we've had Michael Stelzner, Ray Edwards, Mark Mason and Leslie Samuel join us. So the six of us have been together for a very long time and we meet every single week. And in spite of all of the things that we're committed to and all the other things that we've got going on in our personal life and our professional life, the one meeting we look forward to every single week is the Green Room Mastermind. And the same has been true for over 100 entrepreneurs who were a part of the Next level mastermind from November 2017 to when I shut down the previous version in June of last year. Well, I'm excited to tell you that the Next Level Mastermind is back and if you'd like to join myself and a few other hand selected entrepreneurs who are also content creators who are service first, who are willing to share everything that they have to offer of value for your benefit on a weekly basis, that's the Next Level Mastermind. I'd love to invite you to join us. If you are at all interested, all you have to do is send me an email. My email address is cliffliffravenscraft.com Put next level Mastermind in the subject line. Let me know that you're interested, we'll jump on a call and answer any questions you have and make sure it's a good fit for you. All right, until next time, I encourage you to go publish some content into your RSS feed and take everything you do to the next level. Podcast and some man.