486 - Video Is Not the Future of Podcasting and Why Audio Still Wins

Summary

Podcast Answer Man – Episode 486

"Video Is Not the Future of Podcasting and Why Audio Still Wins"
Host: Cliff Ravenscraft
Date: February 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

• Theme:
  Cliff Ravenscraft refutes the growing belief in the podcasting industry that “video podcasting is no longer optional,” particularly in light of Apple’s move to natively support video in its Podcasts app. He argues passionately for the continued primacy of audio-only and audio-first podcasting, sharing technical, strategic, and personal perspectives as both a long-time creator and consumer.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Clarifying Definitions: Audio Only vs. Audio First vs. Video First

[05:15 – 14:30]

• Audio Only:

  • No camera involved; just microphones recording a conversation or monologue.
  • “It's me and you having a conversation. I'm not performing.” (Cliff, 06:03)

• Audio First:

  • Video may be recorded, but the content is crafted primarily for audio listeners.
  • Accommodates audio audience by audibly describing visuals.
  • “The audio first content creator… knows most of the audience are gonna be listening on their commute to work or while working out at the gym…” (Cliff, 10:11)

• Video First:

  • Production, editing, and delivery are optimized for video viewers.
  • Often uses techniques that compromise audio quality.
  • Directs watchers to visual cues or on-screen elements, marginalizing audio-only listeners.

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2. Why Cliff Prefers Audio-Only and Audio-First as a Consumer

[14:30 – 32:00]

• Accessible Listening Time:

  • More opportunities to consume audio (e.g., commuting, exercising, chores) than video in daily life.
  • “There's a lot more time people have to consume audio compared to consuming video content.” (Cliff, 16:01)

• Screen Time Is Premium & Competitive:

  • Video podcasts compete with other visual media and activities during screen time.
  • “I'd almost always rather watch a fully produced video on YouTube… or just read a book.” (Cliff, 18:55)

• Frustrations With Video-First Podcasts:

  • If a podcast transitions to video-first, Cliff unsubscribes from the audio feed due to missing visual context.
  • He wants video and audio feeds managed through standard podcasting infrastructure (RSS), not walled platforms like Spotify or YouTube.
  • “If they for some reason did not have a video podcast feed that was subscribable with RSS… I would simply unsubscribe.” (Cliff, 25:52)

• On “Exclusive” Video Podcasts:

  • Cliff refuses to subscribe to shows like Diary of a CEO or Joe Rogan because the video content isn’t available via RSS in his app of choice.
  • “There is intrinsically more information available to the video consumer... If that's available, I don't want to not be able to experience that.” (Cliff, 28:37)

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3. Why Cliff Prefers Audio-Only and Audio-First as a Creator

[32:01 – 42:13]

• Less Technical Complexity:

  • Video production introduces many more points of failure.
  • “Less things break. If you've been into video production, I need to say nothing more.” (Cliff, 32:40)

• Personal Comfort and Authenticity:

  • No need to worry about appearance, background, or performing for a camera.
  • "When I speak into a microphone, I feel like it's me having a casual conversation with a friend." (Cliff, 34:37)

• Audio Quality and Editing:

  • Audio can be produced to a high standard easily, rivaling major productions.
  • Video would require “an entire team of people and very expensive equipment.”

• Better Retention and Engagement:

  • Audio podcasts retain listeners longer; more listeners stay through to the end compared to video.
  • Audio-only subscribers are generally more engaged.

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4. Apple’s Video Podcast Announcement and the Growing Complexity

[42:14 – 48:27]

• Apple Podcast HLS Integration:

  • Apple introduces HLS (HTTP Live Streaming) for video podcasts—yet another proprietary system alongside YouTube, Spotify, and traditional RSS video feeds.
  • “Video is a mess. It is super complicated… far too complicated for the average person.” (Cliff, 43:08)

• Ownership Concerns:

  • Apple now mandates video files be hosted on “approved hosts” and requires API integration, threatening podcast independence.
  • “It’s got to be on a special sanctioned… host that has access and has been granted the ability to interface with Apple’s API. This, in my opinion, is of a concern.” (Cliff, 33:07)

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5. Discussion With MacBreak Weekly Clips: Industry Perspectives

[31:54 – 47:17]

Cliff plays and comments on multiple clips from MacBreak Weekly (hosted by Leo Laporte and panelists) discussing Apple’s move.

A. Feature Redundancy & Listener Behavior

[31:54] Leo Laporte:
"Apple Podcasts is launching a feature that will allow you to start a podcast in audio and then switch to video… Just download the video like everybody else does and listen to it until you want a picture and then you look."

• Cliff notes this is how he’s consumed video podcasts for years using RSS.

B. Closed Ecosystem & Complicated Publishing

[32:50] Dave Hamilton:
"In order to have them in the same feed, you would have to not put your video in the RSS. You would have to put your video on… an approved host that could then stream it to Apple using HLS."

• Cliff: Apple’s new method restricts open distribution and adds friction for creators.

C. Divergent Standards:

[34:11] Jason Snell:
Discusses "alternate enclosure" support for multiple media versions in a single RSS feed, a standard Apple is ignoring in favor of HLS.

D. Workflow Conflicts & Quality Issues

[38:27 - 40:34] Jason Snell:
"There's an assumption that your audio and video versions are identical… but our workflow… has a really nice audio version… and our video version… is not the same edit."
"I don't record podcasts where I make reference to things that are on screen, because I know that a large percentage of the people cannot see what is on the screen. So it's a bad idea."

• Cliff highlights the industry pressure to treat audio as a secondary afterthought, which he contests.

E. Platform Control and Content Ownership

[43:28] Dave Hamilton:
"…The audio in your RSS feed is ignored the moment you upload a video to Spotify."

• Cliff: This undermines creator control and audience connection.

[44:21] Leo Laporte:
"This is very proprietary. That's a non-starter as far as I'm concerned. It's really important that podcasting be RSS… That's an open format."

• Cliff agrees that true podcasting’s foundation is open RSS and that “it works.”

F. Ad Platform Monetization as Motivation

[46:55 - 47:17] Jason Snell:
"Apple will actually skim some money off the top of your dynamically inserted ads."

• Cliff concludes that Apple’s real motive may simply be revenue from ad insertions enabled by HLS and centralized delivery systems.

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6. Listener Feedback & Community Sentiment

[49:30 – 56:00]

• Cliff shares reactions from a Facebook post on video podcasting “not being optional”—almost all favor audio or audio-first.

  • Quote:
    “This is like saying there was no need for radio once television was invented. People will always love audio.” (Dan Bruno, as quoted by Cliff)
  • Quote:
    “Video will not work for scripted or casts with heavy production.” (Richard V., as quoted by Cliff)

• The narrative that “everything goes video” is driven by a vocal minority; vast numbers still prefer audio-only podcasting.

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Memorable Quotes

• Cliff Ravenscraft:

  • “Video is not an evolution from audio content. If anything, it’s an expansion. And that expansion is always optional.” (~58:30)
  • “If you have felt this pressure and you’ve bought into the pressure to create video content, and you love it, I think it’s a great thing… But… audio only podcasting is still a viable and valuable method of creating content.” (~52:15)

• Leo Laporte [MacBreak Weekly]:

  • “It’s really important that podcasting be RSS… That’s an open format. You can’t be spied on. No company owns it. It just works.” (44:21)

• Jason Snell [MacBreak Weekly]:

  • “There's this prevailing narrative that the audio version is just the video with the picture turned off. And I actually don't believe that and don't agree with that.” (39:48)

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Key Timestamps

• 05:15 – 14:30 – Definitions: Audio-only, Audio-first, Video-first
• 14:30 – 32:00 – Cliff’s preference and rationale as a consumer
• 32:01 – 42:13 – Cliff’s preference and rationale as a creator
• 42:14 – 48:27 – Apple’s HLS announcement & ecosystem complexity
• 31:54 – 47:17 – MacBreak Weekly discussion, industry analysis, content ownership
• 49:30 – 56:00 – Listener feedback from the community
• 58:30 – Closing arguments and encouragement for audio creators

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Final Thoughts

• Cliff encourages burned-out or overwhelmed creators to consider going back to audio-first or audio-only models instead of succumbing to industry “video first” pressure.
• He underscores the importance of open standards (RSS), true ownership, and audience-focused content creation.
• The episode concludes with a call to connect with like-minded creators and join supportive communities (e.g., Mastermind group).

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For those daunted by the push toward video podcasting, Cliff’s message is clear:
Audio-only is still powerful, valuable, and “enough.”

Transcript

[A]

The other day I was browsing through Facebook and I came across a post that said video podcasting is no longer optional. Apple podcasts bringing native video this spring is a big signal the ecosystem is moving toward video first podcasting. It's not just YouTube anymore. Now, along with Spotify, Apple is full, fully coming on board. If you're not recording high quality video already, now might be the time you need to rethink your workflow. I call baloney and I'm gonna talk about that on this episode of the podcast, Answerman. Well, hello my friend, and welcome back to another episode of the podcast, Answer Man. My name is Cliff Ravenscra and this is the podcast devoted to helping you take your message, your business and your life to the next level. That's right, my friend. It doesn't matter if you are brand new to this content creating world or if you've been creating content for many years. There is something that we can all do to take everything we do in life to that next level. And one of the things that I continue to do to take things to the next level is champion the format for audio only podcasting to help defend those who prefer that audio only content, or at the very least audio first content. It needs a bit of defense today because there is a public narrative that is catching fire and a lot of people are being burned by it. In this episode I am going to speak about Apple Podcasts announcing their HLS video integration and how that moves people even further away from owning their content via an RSS feed, being able to take their audience anywhere they want to go. I'm going to share with you about how video is complicating everything because YouTube does it one way, Spotify does it another way, and now Apple pilot podcasts yet another. And there's even a different way of. Well, there's a two other ways to do it with RSS feeds. I'm going to explain all of that in this episode. But to kick this off, I want to share with you three very important definitions when it comes to content creation. I'll then share with you why I, as a content consumer prefer an audio only podcast or at least audio first and and also why I prefer audio only or audio first content when it comes to being a content creator myself. So first let's talk about these three definitions. The first one is audio only production. This is a production where no camera is involved at all. I'm sitting here in my studio right now speaking directly into this microphone and, and I'm talking to you. It's me and you having a conversation. I'm not performing and I'll get into all of that other stuff, but there's just no camera involved. Audio is the only way this conversation is being captured. Another example of audio only content is where maybe myself and my wife, who do a lot of podcasts, co hosted together in the same studio space and there's no camera involved. We're each speaking into a microphone and it's being captured in audio and it's the only way this content will be distributed. Now, I will even go so far as to say that sometimes I will have a podcast interview or even a co hosted podcast episode where I have my guest or my co host join me via via Zoom. The two of us might have a video camera on so that we can see each other as if to replace being in that same physical space, but where the actual video of that Zoom call is either number one, not even being recorded, although that would be crazy not to have it as a backup. But anyway, but where there's no intention ever that that video will ever be seen by anyone. The only, only thing that is actually going to be used in the production of this content, this conversation, is the audio only that is audio only content. The second definition is audio first content. Now this is where you may actually have one or more cameras involved in the recording of your content. For example, if I'm in studio by myself, I may have one or two cameras trained on me, I might have a co host in the same physical space with me and we may have a two or three camera set up where yes, the video version of that conversation, that piece of content is going to go out to the world. Maybe it'll exist on YouTube, maybe it'll even exist out there, subscribable via podcast feeds. But where the primary focus is where we're communicating first and foremost to those who will be listening only via audio, the audio first content creator has this mentality that most of the audience are gonna be listening on their commute to work or while they're working out at the gym or the various other places where it makes sense to consume this in audio format. And you'll know that content creator has an audio first mentality. Whenever a guest might bring up something that they can show on camera and the content creator says, hey, for those who are listening to this in audio only, I just want to explain to you what my guest here has just held up and they describe it in detail so that person doesn't feel any compulsion whatsoever to go look for that to see what they've missed in the video portion that is available to others, that is audio first content. And then the third definition that is important in this discussion is video first content. Obviously there are cameras involved. Not only that, there are all sorts of things that are designed to capture the attention and keep the attention of the person consuming the video content. Some hallmarks that are typically seen is that oftentimes these content creators don't want microphones blocking the mouths of their guests or the hosts or co hosts of the show. And oftentimes that means they'll use shotgun mics that are out of the angle of the camera, they'll use lapel mics, they'll use all sorts of other mic techniques that typically will look better on video but produces a sub par a less than optimal audio recording. But for these content creators, these video first content creators, they think about the video audience first and they're not as concerned about giving the best audio experience to the audio listener. Because this is not an audio first content creator. This is a video first content creator. Other hallmarks of a video first content creator is that they are oftentimes putting words up on the screen. They'll put screenshots up on the screen, they'll show full blown slides, B roll footage, and hold up all sorts of objects and say things like, hey, for those of you who are only listening to this via audio, you'll definitely want to go check out the video version of this because this is incredible. You're totally missing out. I'm exaggerating just a little bit, but this is the mental of somebody who creates content first and foremost for those who are consuming video. So those are the three definitions. You've got audio only, audio first and then video first. Now I want to share with you why I as a content consumer prefer audio only, or at least, at the very least, audio first content. The first reason is that when it comes to time for me to consume content, I have a lot more time to consume audio content than I do screen time to consume content. For example, there are still millions of people every single day driving to and from work. And, and I think a lot of people forget about the commute. In fact, I'm somebody who works from home, but I still oftentimes have that commute to and from the gym. That's 25 minutes there, 25 minutes back. There are people who are taking their dogs for a walk, going on road trips, getting ready in the morning, fixing and having their lunch by themselves, and then doing the dishes afterwards, working on a house project. Maybe you're building something in the garage, you're cleaning up a space in your home. There's a lot of time out there for you to consume audio content where watching something on a screen just isn't a fit. There's a lot more time that people have to consume audio compared to consuming video content. That's not to say that I sometimes don't have screen time, but when I do the second reason I prefer audio only or audio first content is because when I do have screen time that there's much more competition for my attention. I'd almost always rather watch a fully produced full length video on YouTube on some sort of topic that I care deeply about, where the visual elements of the video drastically add to the enjoyment and the value of the content I'm watching. Heck, these days I might even prefer scrolling TikTok and having the algorithm feed me what it knows or the topics that I'm interested in and seeing video first content delivered to me not pretending to be a podcast, but being the kind of content that's short form video, not trying to get me to some other platform to see their long form, but actually delivering true value in two to three minutes or less. This is a great platform and if I have screen time, I'm probably going to go over there. Or if I have my ebook with me. Which by the way, I have the most perfect e book these days that goes in my pocket anywhere. If you haven't heard about it, it's the XTE Ink ebook reader. It's only 4.3 inches. It fits in my pocket in the palm of my hand. Anyway, this is not a podcast episode or about that, but boy do I love my ebooks. But what I'm getting at though is that if I have screen time available, I'd almost rather just pull out my ebook and read a couple more pages or another chapter or two in my favorite book that I'm reading right now. Or if I have screen time and I'm in front of a good size screen, I'd almost prefer to work most of the time because I love the work that I'm doing. So this second reason why I prefer audio only or audio first content is because when I do have screen time available, there's almost an infinite number of other things that I prefer to do than to consume a podcast in that moment. The third reason is because I simply do not like to listen to the audio only version of a podcast that has a video element to it. I'll give you a perfect example. I have two podcasts that I've been listening to for nearly 20 years. Both of them are from Leo Laporte, this Week in Tech and MacBreak Weekly. And for the very first few years, they were an audio only podcast. Then they moved to an audio first podcast and somewhere around middle mid to late 2008, both of their shows transitioned into a video first podcast. Now, if I hadn't already fallen in love with the content and had a relationship with the hosts of the show, I probably would have never subscribed to these podcasts had I found them when they were video first content. But because I did, at least one thing they did right was when they moved to video first, they actually created a separate podcast feed where I could subscribe to and receive the full video version of the media file that is video delivered via RSS feed. So in any podcast app of my choice that supports video playback of video files, those video files get downloaded directly into my phone. And I don't have to rely on any other third party app showing me all these other algorithms and things like that. I can literally manage the content the way that I prefer to do so. And ever since Mac Break Weekly and this Week in Tech had moved to a video first production, I unsubscribed from their audio podcast feeds, never to listen to it from the audio feed ever again. And I'm only subscribed to the video podcast feedback. And what I do is I pull out my phone, start the playback, I will then close the app, turn off my phone, stick it in my pocket or sit it on the counter or whatever. And then I start my day. I get ready for the day, getting dressed or whatever, listening to it in the background or while I'm fixing my breakfast or doing the dishes or all of these things that I do. And, and because it is a video first production, there are often times when they're like, oh, did you see Apple's latest ad? Hey, let's throw it up here on the screen and have commentary on it. And I'm like, oh, well, let me go see what they're doing. And so I have to pull it out of my pocket or I have to go search my phone down. Where did I what counter is it on? And I have to go and back it up, back it up and open the app so that the video is playing so I get to see what it is. Because I really enjoy their content and I want the fullest. I want to experience everything that they have to offer in that show and I want to be able to do it via a subscribed podcast link. Now, here's what I will tell you. As much as I love this Week in Tech and as much as I love MacBreak weekly, if they for some reason did not have a video podcast feed that was subscribable with RSS where I could download that, I'm not gonna use the YouTube app to watch this. I'm not gonna use the spot to listen to podcasts or view podcasts. If I can't use my podcast app of choice to consume that video first content and have the option to just shut it off and listen to the audio in the background and then open it up and just watch the bits and pieces where they're referring to something that I would like to see. Then if that wasn't available to me, I would simply unsubscribe. I'm not gonna listen to the audio only feed of any show that has content where video is available because it's inevitable. Even in many audio first productions, there are those occasional slips where they're like, we're sitting here walking through this town and man, we see this beautiful scenery in front of us. For those of you who are listening on the audio, I wish you could see this. Of course, for those of you watching in video, you see this, don't you? And it's beautiful. And again, I hear it. It happens. I simply do not like the idea of having an audio only podcast feed in podcast directories and then having your video somewhere else so that you know, if you mention something there. I'd just rather not consume your show. I'd just rather not, even if it only happens every now and then. Another reason why there are some video podcasts out there that have an audio version in the podcast directories, but the video is only over on YouTube. For example, Diary of a CEO. The reason why I won't go and subscribe to the audio version of that podcast is because there is intrinsically more information available to the video consumer of that content than there is to the audio listener. You see Diary of a CEO, even though it's a conversation, it's an interview, and even though there's not B roll footage, although they're starting to include a little bit of that here and there. But even if you think there's no additional video elements introduced outside of the conversation, there are things that are communicated in body language. And when that video exists and it's somebody that I'm genuinely interested, it's like some A list celebrity guest, which are really the only episodes of Diary of a CEO or Joe Rogan or Lex Friedman, you know, a three hour conversation is just ridiculous on an ongoing, regular basis anyway. But that's my own opinion. Who's got time for that? Obviously a lot of people, right? But the thing is, if it's an amazing guest that I want to know more about, and there's an entire video production crew and multiple camera angles, and even though it is only that conversation, the reality is if the ability to see their facial expressions when a question was asked or to see their body language when they said that phrase, if that's available, I don't want to not be able to experience that. And so again, if you have a video version of your podcast and there's an audio version in the podcast directories, but the video version is not available via the podcast directory of my choice, via an RSS feed, then I'm not even going to subscribe to your show. I do not subscribe to the Diary of a CEO. I don't subscribe to Joe Rogan. I don't subscribe to any of those podcasts. And the reason why is because if they have a guest that's gonna peak my curiosity, somebody's probably going to talk about it. They're probably gonna put a clip on short form media, and I'll go watch that one episode, add it to my YouTube watch later playlist, and do you know what I do that? I probably consume about one out of every eight or nine of those episodes of those video podcasts that I add to my Watch later. And eventually my Watch later playlist gets so big I just start deleting them. And I never did watch them. Why? Because there's a lot of other things that I'd rather do. I'm just not into video podcasts. So those are the reasons why I prefer audio first and even audio only content as a consumer. But there are many reasons why I prefer creating content as audio only, or at least audio first. Number one, less technical challenges, less things break. And if you've been into video production, I need to say nothing more. You just get it. If you haven't and you're thinking about trying it, you'll understand very soon. Number two, I don't have to concern myself with how I look. Oh my goodness. I should have trimmed my nose hairs before I recorded that entire one hour piece of content. Oh my gosh. I had Chipotle for lunch and I forgot to go in and floss afterwards. Oh my gosh, there's a piece of cilantro right there. During that Entire live stream, that entire interview. Ah, man. I don't have to think about things like, oh my gosh, let me go style my hair. Let me make sure my beard looks just right. When I sit down to record a piece of content, I don't have to go put on a dress shirt because I'm typically wearing a T shirt because I'm a solopreneur and I've chosen that. I love the freedom of having casual dress day every single day of the year. I love that I don't have to stare into the eye of a camera and pretend to be making eye contact with you. I love that I can sit here behind a microphone and just know that you're out there listening. I'm not performing. For me, when I speak into a microphone, I feel like it's me having a casual conversation with a friend. When I'm looking into a camera, I feel like I'm a presenter in front of a small crowd. Whether I'm teaching a workshop or speaking from a stage, there's a performance that seems to be turned on whenever I start looking into that camera. As a content creator, I don't have to do anything with video editing to maintain your interest. I can keep everything going by the enthusiasm, the tone of my voice, the story elements that I'm bringing into the conversation. I don't have to switch every few seconds. I don't have to zoom in, zoom out, switch between this camera angle and that camera angle. I don't have to bring in B roll footage. I don't have to put any graphics on the screen, none of that stuff. I sit here, I hit the record button, I I talk into this microphone, and if anything, I do some very deep edits to cut out some of the mistakes that I've made along the way. Maybe run an audio process to make sure this thing sounds absolutely pristine audio quality and deliver it to you. It is so easy for me as a content creator to create audio quality that rivals any production out there. Whereas with a video piece of content, I'd have to hire an entire team of people and they'd have to spend a lot of time and I'd have to have very expensive equipment to rival the best content out there. Also, the stats don't lie. Retention graphs are available now to podcasters. For example, the retention graph of a video on YouTube will show that the video, the vast majority of the audience, drops off within a first few minutes of your average piece of video content. However, with the same content but in audio form, especially if your content is High quality audio, high quality production, and also audio first. And it's even better. The retention graphs are even better for audio only content, where no video was ever produced out there and released to be a part of the audience. The retention graphs of an audio podcast. An overwhelming majority of every person who hits play listens to the end. Now, don't get me wrong, there are outliers out there. There are a lot of people with very boring podcasts and their content is not all that great. And yeah, their retention graphs don't show those things. But those of us who have been creating audio only content, and we've been it for decades now, we could show you some of our retention graphs. You'd be shocked at how many of our audience are hitting play and make it all the way to the very end of the episode. Especially for those of us who aren't filling our content up with inserted advertisements. And then audio only subscribers are far more engaged with your content than video subscribers. It's not uncommon for a YouTube channel, for example, to have a hundred thousand subscribers and see several of their videos over the last several weeks where it's got 5.3 thousand views. Whereas if you have an audio podcast with 15,000 subscribers, nearly every single episode produced by that podcaster, they will have at least 15,000 downloads within 30 days of publishing each episode. There are so many reasons why, as a content creator, I advocate for audio only. I advocate for audio first. And so finally, I can now address the opening of this podcast episode. Apple Podcasts just dropped an announcement and said, hey, we're switching things up and we are supporting video versions of podcasts in our directory and here's how we're doing it. And to complicate things, they're doing it different than YouTube, they're doing it different than Spotify, and also they're doing it different than independent content creators and industry experts doing it the old fashioned way, or with the new RSS standards, where you could have multiple media enclosures to choose from in a single RSS feed entry. Little geeky, little technical. But here's what I will tell you. Video is a mess. It is super complicated. It can be done. It's rather simple for those who know what's going on, but it is far too complicated for the average person. And it's getting to the place where if you are serious about doing a video version of your podcast and you want that video to be in podcast directories, you're going to need to support all of the different methods you'll need to create the video version and upload it to Spotify so that Spotify can deliver it to your Spotify subscribers. And by the way, those audio subscribers who are subscribed to the RSS feed where the audio files in there. Guess what? They do not even hear those audio files anymore because they're only going to now play the audio from that video on Spotify. This will make more sense when I play some clips from some other people talking about this. So if that, if I lost you there, stick with me. I promise you. This is just a complicated mess of different standards. There are going to be at least four or five different ways to distribute your video version of your podcast to those who would want to consume the video version of your podcast. And guess what? You're going to need to support all of them. You're going to need to push it out in all of the different ways. At some point, you're just going to need to hire a team to manage all of this for you. Like I said, the complexity of video, it has always been high. It's always been a hassle for a lot of people. And it's only getting more complicated now that Apple is jumping into the ring with its own proprietary way of delivering video versions of your podcast. Let me give you a super overly simplified explanation of Apple's announcement. Apple announced that they're going to start supporting video delivery of podcasts via what they call hls. This is a special proprietary streaming method of delivering video content that Apple created. And by the way, Apple has supported video podcasts in their podcast app ever since podcasting was first introduced into the Apple ecosystem, all the way back to the earliest days of the very first support for podcasts. In itunes, video podcasts were a thing. Video files delivered via an RSS Media enclosure has always been supported, but now they want to bring a different type of support available, such that when somebody is consuming a podcast in the Apple Podcasts app and there happens to be a video version and an audio version, they want to be able to create an experience where the user can seamlessly go between the two. Which why they can't just subscribe to the video RSS feed and start watching the video and then close the app of choice and listen to the audio play in the background. I don't understand. I've been doing it for almost 20 years now, but now Apple says that's. No, that's not how we're gonna do it. We're gonna actually do this via the kind of the same experience that you're getting from Spotify. We're gonna bring that over here to Apple, but we're gonna do it a different way. We're gonna do it via hls. And I gotta tell you, I think one of the reasons why they're doing it this way is because if you're gonna dynamically insert ads into your podcast, I think this is a way for them to get a piece of that pie. Now, I told you that one of my favorite podcasts is Mac Break Weekly, hosted by Leo laporte and a panel of other technology experts and Apple enthusiasts. And three of the four people who were on this podcast panel this week are podcasters themselves. And since this was an Apple related announcement, they had a conversation about this. And I'm going to play several different clips from this week's episode of Mac Break Weekly and I'm going to then give you commentary on each of them. Here's clip number one.

[B]

This is the story. Apple Podcasts is launching a feature that will allow you to start a podcast in audio and then switch to video. You get both two forms in one, right?

[C]

Spotify has this feature now.

[B]

Yeah, Spotify and YouTube both have that feature. I mean, I think we have that feature. Just download the video like everybody else does and listen to it until you want a picture and then you look okay.

[A]

Obviously I resonate with that because like I said, I've been listening to this podcast for 20 years and ever since they went to a video podcast RSS feed. This is exactly how I have consumed this podcast. I listen to it in audio in my pocket or on the phone laying on a counter. And anytime they say something where they reference to something that I want to see in the video, I just go open up the app and I see it. I've had this forever. Here's clip number two.

[D]

In order to have them in the same feed, you would have to not put your video in the rss. You would have to put your video on the server of a host that could then stream it to Apple using hls. And it's one of the four blessed hosts.

[A]

Okay, so the commentary here is that the way HLS is working is that you are not going to put your video file on any web server or any media hosting platform. It's got to be on a special sanctioned or approved or authorized host that has access and has been granted the ability to interface with Apple's API. This, in my opinion, is of a concern. Here's clip number three.

[D]

My point is there doesn't need to be a provider. Leo is a great. You're like this is a perfect example. Why wouldn't Apple let you. They're letting you do the video feed as it is, and even making that better, like the experience of consuming it better. They're letting you do your audio feed, obviously. Why wouldn't they let you take the enclosure tag that you use for your video feed and put it in your audio feed as an alternate enclosure and

[A]

use both of those?

[C]

So the, the change here is that they're supporting streaming for the first time instead of it being streaming hls, which, which they used. They, they've always supported video podcasting, right? But not the podcast actually has support. Not together.

[A]

So the two people that were featured in that clip are Dave Hamilton, who happens to be a guest on the show, and Jason Snell, a regular panelist on MacBreak Weekly. And what Dave Hamilton was talking about is something called an alternate enclosure. Now this is something with an updated version of podcast feeds, which by the way, is not supported by all podcast apps out there, which is why I've not personally been a fan of it. But there is a method of allowing apps to integrate with content creators who have both an audio version of their show and a video version of their show. And instead of having to have two separate podcast feeds available in directories, one for audio and one for video, they could have a single feed and anybody could choose to say, you know what, if you're an audio only app, go ahead and, and pull from the MP3 enclosure. But if you're app supports video and the person who is consuming the content wants that, whenever they're requesting the video, pull from this video file that's in the alternate enclosure. Again, it's not supported by everyone, but it is supported by some. Ironically though, Apple chose not to support that functionality that was created by those in the industry who saw a need for this. And so while it is supported by some, it's not supported by Apple. They're doing it a different way. It's not supported by Spotify. They chose to do it a different way. And now, like I said, we're just adding additional ways that you have to make your video content available. Here's the next clip.

[C]

I think the bigger news here is not the togetherness. I think it's the fact that it's using HLS to stream. So when you switch over to video. So it's going to use a modern streaming format embedded by Apple to support this stuff, and I think that's great. I suspect now that it's been announced that there are probably some specs out There. I don't think this is Apple playing Keep Away. I think there's probably a spec for what you need to have offered on an HLS server and a spec for what you need to put in your RSS to indicate that the video feed is available at a streaming server and that anybody can support this. I will point out that. But it's not hosting the video. Just like the audio spot, Spotify hosts the video themselves. Whereas Apple is continuing its tradition of saying, we don't actually want to pay to host your media. You do that and then talk to us later.

[A]

My only reason for bringing this clip in, just for those of you who are not aware, but the way that Spotify works, from what I hear from everybody who's using that functionality of the video audio, the way that I understand it, is that if you have an audio podcast, but there's a video version, and you want to take advantage of Spotify's way of allowing the user to switch interchangeably between the two formats, you not only have to upload your audio podcast to your podcast host and let it deliver out to everyone, but you also need to go and then upload your video to YouTube. You also have to go and upload your video directly to Spotify's servers. And I don't know, there's just a part of me that just doesn't trust the content that I'm producing for my subscribers. Living on a server that is owned and operated and controlled by Spotify, it just seems to be taking more and more away from the RSS feed and the ownership. And if you don't understand the importance of ownership of your content, I encourage you to go back to the last episode of Podcast Answer man, before this one. Episode number 485, an in depth, thoughtful defense of why RSS still matters. All right, here's the next clip.

[B]

You do a lot of video, Jason, are you going to adopt this? Are you going to do it?

[C]

I have to look into it for upgrade. We do a YouTube version of the show. We tried to offer that on Spotify and we pulled it out. And the reason is, and I imagine this will be true of Apple as well, that there is an assumption that your audio and video versions are identical and so you can toggle between them and just turn the video on and off. And that's actually not true with our workflow, we have an audio editor who makes a really, really nice audio version that we prefer, and then our video version is, you know, we cut the cutout parts and all of that. But Our video editor is not the same person and they're not making the same edits and they're not doing a detailed audio edit because it would cost a lot more money to do that for a relatively small audience. And this premise at Spotify and I assume at Apple is that your audio and video versions are the same, which would require us not just to flip a switch, but to completely change our post production. And you basically need somebody who's capable of using a video editor to do audio editing, which is. I know people like that.

[B]

We did.

[C]

It can be done.

[B]

We did it. It's not great. Our editors went kicking and screaming. Right, John Ashley, you read it now. Basically edit the video and then export an audio track.

[A]

Yeah, you do everything. I just, I edit. Yeah, I edit both.

[B]

You do it all in premiere and the audio track would be the same.

[C]

Yep, yep. Yeah. So we don't do that. So that's the hold up for us. The idea that they. I think a lot of this is premised on the idea that all the audio version of your podcast is, is the audio track from the video version, which I think says something about how podcasting has been going lately. That everybody's sort of starting to think that the video version is, is, is primary and that the audio version is just video with the picture turned off. And I actually don't believe that and don't agree with that. And so, I mean, we'll see. I may be forced to change my opinion, but it's the same reason why I don't, I don't record podcasts where I make reference to things that are on screen, because I know that a large percentage of the people cannot see what is on the screen. So it's a bad idea.

[A]

Two key important things brought up in this clip. Number one, there's some sort of assumption with all of these podcast hosting platforms, podcast directory platforms that want to integrate and push video functionality on all of these people. The big thing is that there is this major assumption that the video content is exactly the same as the audio content. And I love what Jason Snell just expressed in his own personal workflow, the way he's doing it. Yes, there is a video element of this. Yes, we do stream this live. Yes, we do put a video version of this out to people. But I hire a guy who goes in and just does some quick little things. But we know that the vast majority of the people who listen to this podcast are audio only listeners. And we go through and do a deep dive on this. We do very high end production work on the audio version. And those are two different people that we hire. And there's something to be said about the fact that when I've attempted to enter into the create a video version of my audio podcasts, back in the day when I was tempted to jump into all of this stuff, I'm like, oh my gosh, the audio quality on my video recording is not as high as my locally captured audio on my high end audio device. And so what I was doing is I was forcing myself to go in and process the audio recording and match it to the video recording. And the problem I was having back then is that the video that I was recording was capturing at 4800 sample rates and my audio recorder is captured at 44, 100 sample rate. And as a result of that, there was drift in the audio. They weren't syncing up just right and the lip sync was off and I had to resample audio. And every time I'm resampling something, it was just a terrible experience. And also the second thing that was brought up there was this idea, this prevailing narrative that all of a sudden somehow we're all going to agree at some point in the future, we're all going to be forced to agree that a podcast is video first content and that RSS feeds really are a thing of the past. And I call baloney on both of those things. But with each of these video announcements, first with Spotify, now with Apple, I'm seeing more and more of this content being delivered that isn't happening within the RSS feed. Here's another clip to illustrate what I'm talking about.

[D]

But what Spotify currently anyway does is as soon as you upload the video version, the audio from that is your audio. The audio in your RSS feed.

[B]

That's where the audio comes from.

[D]

Yeah. The audio in your RSS feed is ignored the moment you upload a video to Spotify.

[A]

That just sounds crazy to me. The audio in your RSS feed is ignored completely the minute you upload your video to Spotify. It just seems to me like there is this conditioning that's happening from these big content players. They want to condition us to stop thinking of our podcast as being something that we own and distribute through our own RSS feeds. This is a very dangerous road. I really like what Leo laporte says in this next clip.

[B]

So Darren has posted is looking at the tech specs. So there are some tech specs. Apple says to use new HLS capabilities. You can't simply drop a video file onto your own web server and link an RSS feed instead. You must generate a unique API key within your Apple Podcast Connect account and provide it to an approved hosting partner. The host then manages the complex HLS file chunking and playlist generation, sending that data directly to Apple via the API. So this is very proprietary. That's a non starter as far as I'm concerned. You know, to me it's really important that podcasting be rss.

[A]

Agree, right?

[B]

Because that's an open format. You can't be spied on. You can't. I mean no company owns just. It works.

[A]

And that's the whole thing. It works. There is no need for hls. There was no need for Spotify to give us this switch back and forth in between thing and ignoring your RSS audio embedded file. This obsession with video is just blowing my mind. And it's one of the reasons why Podcast Answer man is back to be an advocate for the value of audio first content and also an advocate for something like this, an audio only experience. There is one more clip and I think this also may be a part of it. I think that it may not be this concerted effort to take away our RSS feed and the ownership of our relationship directly with our audience. Although that's what's at stake here. I think their motive is how can they get their piece of the pie when it comes to all of these content creators who are doing dynamic ad insertion. You see, when the video of your content is on Spotify servers, then Spotify gets to insert the ads. And with Apple, even though they're not going to be hosting your files, if you listen to this next clip, you'll hear that they are actually working to where they will get a cut of the ad revenue from dynamically inserted ads.

[B]

Many podcasts, including ours, have direct ad

[D]

insertion that you can do with hls. That's one of the things Apple made a big deal about.

[B]

Yeah, and I noticed that all of these companies do direct ad insertions, right?

[C]

And Apple take a percentage of it. Apple will actually skim some money off the top of your of your dynamically inserted ads.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I think that's probably where the motivation is coming from, is like, hey, let us take care of delivering the video side of this. Let's push this. Let's make this UI of our app promote so heavily the video angle and really compel a lot of content creators who are doing audio only. Let's really amp up the fire and make them feel this pressure to create a video side of it. And then, by the way, we'll be the gatekeeper of how that is handled. And if they actually decide to monetize that ad stream, wow, we can get a piece of the pie. And that's what I think is going on here. But here's what I want to point out though. I started this off by saying that I recently came across this article, this post, if you will, on a Facebook group, and it said video podcasting is no longer optional. That's the narrative that's out there, but it is optional. In fact, audio only podcasting is still a viable and valuable method of creating content. And if you have felt this pressure and you've bought into the pressure to create video content and you love it, I think it's a great thing. If you're a video first content creator and you put out a video version of your file where the mp4 or mov file is enclosed in a media enclosure and you put out a podcast feed that has the video delivered via rss, I think that's amazing. But if you have a video first podcast and the video is hosted over there on YouTube, or it might be available on Spotify, or it might be available via HLS over here in a different delivery distribution method that you'll also have to figure out in Apple Podcasts, but where anyone else who only has the standard RSS feed of your podcast, but they're not a Spotify user, they're not an Apple podcast user, but Your audio only MP3 extracted content from the video in Audio only is delivered out there. I'm telling you that is not nearly as valuable as you might think. By the way, for those who are out there who have given up on podcasting because you felt the pressure to add video, you went and invested all of this time, effort and energy, you hired teams of people to produce this for you. It added thousands of dollars to your budget on a monthly basis to keep up with all of these things that they told you you need to do to be seen as credible in the content creation space. I'm telling you, you could come back. Your audience is still out there. They still want to hear from you. They may not have the same discovery mechanism of an algorithm, but is feeding an algorithm for people who are not truly your ideal audience? Is that what you wanted in the first place? Anyway, I will tell you that the comments on that post are a lot of fun. Ron Desi said, I listen to a lot of podcasts and have never watched or wanted to watch a video podcast. But that's just me, apparently, except for that it got 26 likes and 6 replies of people saying, yeah, me too. Dan Bruno said, this is like saying that there was no need for radio once television was invented. People will always love audio, by the way. Lots of hearts, lots of likes and comments on that one as well. In agreement with what Diane said there, Ryan says. Ryan Green he says, Yep, it's not a coincidence that Netflix just scooped up a bunch of video podcasts for their network. At some point we should start calling them what they are, TV talk shows. John Keefer says, I have neither the current budget nor the space to do a video podcast. Well, I'm happy with largely being audio for the time being. Richard V. I can't pronounce his last name, says video will not work for scripted or casts with heavy production. Lane Robinson says that video podcasts via RSS have been a thing for a very long time. And that's the point we're saying is like, why do we need to change things? It doesn't make sense. Million Quinteros says Hot Take Video is not real podcasting. True podcasting is audio only. If you do video, you're a YouTuber or a video creator. I'm old school that way. Now, I will tell you I completely disagree with that statement. I'm all for video podcasting, but a podcast is defined as a media file, episodic media file that is delivered via an RSS feed. And as I said, I subscribe to this Week in Tech and MacBreak Weekly, both video podcasts. And so I am not one who says that if it's video, your a video creator. No, there are video podcasts out there and so that's the only one I disagree with so far. But here's the thing. If you think that everyone out there agrees with this narrative that everything's going to video, I'm telling you, you are hearing an incredibly vocal minority of people. There are millions upon millions upon millions of podcast consumers of both audio and video podcasts that see no need to change the delivery mechanism that has always existed for podcast content via immediate enclosure in an RSS feed. And, and also there's no absolute need for you to create a video first piece of content for you to remain credible. There is a ton of value and as I shared before, there's a lot of people who are a lot like me who prefer as a consumer of content when it comes to podcasts who prefer audio. I'm not saying I don't like video podcasts. Two of my favorite shows that I've been listening to for 20 years. They are video podcasts, but that's the key. They are video podcasts, and I don't need them delivered via HLS to a specific app in Apple. I don't need to go to Spotify to have it come off of the Spotify servers. No, the hosts of the podcasts that are video podcasts that I consume, they are delivered from the server of choice, from the podcast host who produced them. And nobody can stand in the way between that podcast host and me, the audience of that show. And even though I do enjoy a good video podcast here and there and have for 20 years, I still prefer audio. And I've not subscribed to a single video podcast in over 15 years. I hope this episode encourages some of you who have given up on content creation because you were so overwhelmed by all of the pressure to do video, and then it just felt like it wasn't worth it anymore. I hope this is an encouragement to some of you who are spending thousands of dollars or investing countless hours creating these video versions and you're getting burned out and about ready to give up. What if you just turned off the camera? Or if you had the camera on while you were interviewing somebody? What if you just decided to not release the video version? What would happen? In my opinion, it would be much better than you just giving up altogether. And I've seen way too much of that, and that's why I created this episode. It's not that I don't like video podcasts. I do. It's just that I and several million other people in this world prefer audio first, at the very least. And if you could give us audio only, ah, there's something magic with it. To summarize everything in one statement, I would simply say this video is not an evolution from audio content. If anything, it's an expansion. And that expansion is always optional. Before I wrap this up, I want to speak directly to one specific person who might be listening right now. If you are an entrepreneur and care deeply about serving people well, and you've been creating content for a long time, maybe years, and lately it feels a little bit more heavy than it used to. If you're feeling like you're losing your passion for serving others through the content that you create, if you feel like you've been carrying the load all alone, the decisions and the uncertainty and this pressure to keep up with with all of the things that are expected of us, if any part of this episode resonated with you, especially the part about pressure and complexity, and feeling like the work just keeps expanding while your energy keeps getting divided. I want you to hear this clearly. You do not have to do any of this alone. One of the biggest shifts in my own entrepreneurial journey came when I stopped trying to white knuckle every season of my business and life on my own. And I chose to do life alongside other Service first entrepreneurs and content creators who were committed to unceasing personal and professional growth, integrity and long term thinking, staying focused on what truly matters. I'm talking about a Mastermind group. A place where every single person in this small group shares your own experience of what you're going after, the things you're looking to create in this world. They're also facing the same kind of decisions you face on a regular basis and where each and every one of us bring all of our education, our experience, our areas of expertise, all of the things that we have of value, we bring it to the table to serve each and every person in the group. We are committed to the success of each person in the Mastermind. If you're somebody who has built something that's real, you have cared deeply about the people that you serve and you're feeling the weight of doing everything on your own, I would love to have a conversation with you. This would be a chance to explore what it would be like for you and I to do life together over this next year, along with other service first entrepreneurs and content creators who are devoted to your success. If that resonates with you, all you have to do is email me. My email address is cliffravenscraft.com and just tell me you want to have a conversation about the Mastermind group. We've got a few open seats for the year ahead and we would love to have you join us. Email me today. Cliffravenscraft.com until next time. I encourage you to take everything you do with your audio production to the next level podcast and some man.