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Podcast Answer Man
491 - He Built a Podcast Network From Scratch. What 15 Years of Podcasting Taught Him
00:59:06
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- [00:00]
A
In December 2025, I made the decision to bring back my podcast Answer man brand to celebrate my 20th anniversary in podcasting. And one of the things that I did during that season was to invite some folks that I worked with well over a decade ago. Today, I'm going to share with you a conversation that I had at that time with Jason Cabasi. We did a live stream sharing his story online. You see, I've had the privilege of helping Jason get started with his podcasting journey back in 2011. And since then, he's produced more than a thousand podcast episodes, and he's built an entire podcast network around television shows that he genuinely loves. In this episode, you're going to hear his story, but I think it's important for you. As you listen, I want you to hear the patterns beneath the story. What does it actually take to sustain a podcast over 10 to 15 years? What decisions do you hear him making as he shares his journey? What do you do when things get difficult, especially when it comes to growth and monetization? And what do you do when all of the original excitement, that early honeymoon period after all of that has worn off? How do you stay engaged in the game? There's a lot here that will directly apply to what you are creating today. I am super excited to talk with Jason Cavazi. He and I worked together for four weeks in May of 2011, helping him get launched into the podcasting world. And today he has produced well over a thousand podcast episodes. But not only that, he's launched his own very successful podcast network. And that's what we're going to talk about today. Jason Kabasi, great to have you on here. Welcome, my friend.
- [02:18]
B
Hello. Great to talk to you. It has been a long time and I. I'm excited for everything that's going on with you right now.
- [02:25]
A
Well, I'm excited about what's going on with you. And I happen to know, I think the Walking Dead was that your biggest show that you've done.
- [02:34]
B
That's what got us started. Yeah. And it was the biggest.
- [02:37]
A
Let's get into that. Let's start with your biggest show. How did you get into doing a fan podcast related to the Walking Dead? And then we'll go into how it changed your life.
- [02:51]
B
So back in back, actually a few years before the Walking Dead was ever a thing, my friend Karen and I used to love the show Lost. I know you've heard of that show. And we. That was right around the time. I mean, I feel like Lost was really the show that got TV podcasting going because there was so much theorizing to be done and speculating, and. And so I went looking for a podcast to listen to. I found a couple. I never found yours. I didn't even see it. I know I would have listened to it if I had, but there were a few, you know, so I. Maybe I just clicked on the first one I found, but it was the Jay and Jack podcast. I'm sure, you know of them.
- [03:37]
A
Oh, Jay and Jack were great.
- [03:39]
B
Yeah, they were great. And. And so, you know, we really got into it, Me and my friend Karen, who used to go watch zombie movies together. We. Well, I guess I just jumped ahead of myself a little bit. But we. We were very much into Lost and the J and Jack podcast, and then we thought, man, that would be fun. We should do something like that ourselves sometime. But we didn't know for what. But we used to go watch horror movies together. And I loved the Walking Dead comic, and I always wanted it to be a show. And so when I found out it was, she was the first one I called, and I was like, we should do this. We should do it. And she goes, yeah. And so we did. And we started about six now, see, July, August, September, October. Three or four months before the show even premiered. We didn't know if it was going to be any good, you know, and we just started talking about rumors and little bits of news. We started reviewing some Frank Darabont movies because he was the original showrunner. And. And it was really fun. I remember being really nervous the first time we sat down at the mic together, but once it was over, the first podcast, feeling like, I think that was good. We got some good chemistry going on here, and it was really fun. And so we just kept on going with it until the show premiered. And then I remember watching the. The pilot, and it was fantastic. And I was relieved that it was actually good, this thing that we'd been already dedicating so much time to. And so we just went from there, and, you know, that's. That's how we got the start.
- [05:12]
A
I love that story. And what really stands out to me is the fact that you were already a massive fan of the story, the background, the community, the comic of the Walking Dead, which, by the way, I just learned something new. I haven't ever watched a single episode of the Walking Dead, but I did not even know that it was based on a comic series. So that's awesome. But I'm thrilled that you found something that you were already invested in as a fan. And as a result of that, and the fact that you said that you also had hoped, like, this should be a show one day, and then when it came about, it's like, okay, I'm definitely interested. And it reminded me of the Bionic Woman. Do you remember when the Bionic Woman, the new version, came out in, like, 2008, somewhere around there. 2007, 2008.
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B
I have a vague recollection of that, but I can't even remember who starred in it.
- [06:10]
A
Yeah. So, yeah, neither do a lot of people. But the fun thing is, as you know, Stephanie and I got started podcasting about the TV show Lost, and then we branched out and did the Grey's Anatomy fan podcast, and we did the Desperate Housewives fan podcast. And all of these shows were already in production when we started them. Right. Still was able to reach a massive audience. It was fun, but we're like, hey, it'd be nice to start some podcasts and be in on the ground floor. There were two. One was a show with Nathan Fillion, and we're like, how can a show with Nathan Fillion fail? There's just no way. Because obviously Firefly was still on everybody's mind at the time. And he had a show called Drive. I don't know if you remember that. And so we started the Drive fan podcast, and we knew that, you know, retro everything coming back, and the Bionic Woman. So we started the Drive fan podcast and the Bionic Woman fan podcast. Both shows. We started them. And our first episode, covering the first episode, the first podcast episode, covering the first television episode of each of those shows was the last episode we did for those podcasts, because they were terrible.
- [07:34]
B
Oh, yeah. And the network, good to be real about it, because it takes so much work, and you don't want to put that much work into something that you're not into. Like, I also podcasted on the show Fear the Walking Dead, which was the spinoff, and it started getting really, really bad towards the end. And I was just feeling like, oh, my God, we're just ripping this to shreds every time. And kind of fun. But also, that's not really what we're all about, you know? But the listeners kept saying, you should keep podcasting about it. We don't care if you don't like it. And so I said, all right, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna put it behind my Patreon paywall, call it Fear of the Walking Dead Roundtable rants. I will put way less time and energy into it, and I'll give you guys what you want in our own private little space. And so we did that for the last, like, two or three seasons.
- [08:22]
A
Oh, I love that idea. That's awesome. But, yeah, I'm thrilled for you that the Walking Dead ended up being. And the runaway hit that it was. But it also opened up some opportunities. I know you got some really cool things that came out of that. So tell me what some of the most exciting things that came up for you.
- [08:44]
B
So much came out of that. But the most exciting, I mean, we reached out right away in our sort of naivete, sort of beginner mindset and said, let's see if we can get any of the actors on. And I remember writing to Steven Yun's publicist, and he just said, yeah, okay. What time? Like what? Okay. I guess they were sort of new at what they were doing, too, so they were just saying yes to anybody who reached out for interviews. Right. So we ended up interviewing most of the cast over the course of the series, and that was a lot of fun. And then I put it out there. I. I said I had two intentions when I started. One is I wanted to try to get to interview some of the cast. And two is I love to be a zombie on the show. I just said that on the podcast. Right. Who knows if it's actually going to what I'd love to happen. And then I became friends with one of the listeners who lived in Georgia, where the series was filmed, and I just so happened to be going out that way for vacation with my wife. And my friend said, hey, they're doing a big call for a bunch of zombies for this one episode, and I think I can get you in. And so I looked at my wife and, like, do you mind if I just go away for a couple of days? And she said, okay. So I ended up spending four days on set filming as a zombie,
- [10:03]
A
one
- [10:03]
B
of the key episodes.
- [10:04]
A
That is so amazing. I love it. So what episode of the show is it? Can we see you in that episode?
- [10:12]
B
Yeah. So people who know the Walking Dead know that season two is about Herschel's farm. And in the season finale, 100 zombies storm the farm. And every time they would ask for volunteers, I would raise my hand. So if you look close, you can see me all over that episode. But there's one shot in particular where the lead character, Rick, and his son Carl, are climbing down the ladder of this RV right next to this barn. And there's a fence separating them and the zombies, but they're all reaching over, trying to grab them. And I was the one right next to Rick, and I could have totally grabbed him if I wanted to, but then I would have gotten fired. So anyway, then it was funny because on AMC's website after that, all summer long, they had the ad for the Walking Dead, and you could see Rick and me and then the AMC logo over all the other zombies. So it's just me and the lead character. That is so cool, man. That was a peak experience of my life. That whole thing really was. All because of podcasting.
- [11:19]
A
All because of podcasting. What a phrase that is. There are so many amazing things that can happen all because of podcasting. I love that story. I love the fact that you had the naivete to just reach out and say, listen, I want to interview the people on this show. Whereas some people would just think, there's just no way that anybody's going to give me this opportunity. Why even bother? And you never know unless you ask.
- [11:46]
B
That's right. And I always found a good mindset to have, and it was easier for me to have this mindset back then when it was just a hobby, is, who cares if it doesn't happen? It's worth a shot. And it's like throwing pebbles in a pond. Just see what happens. And I was surprised at how much came of that attitude.
- [12:06]
A
I love it. Okay, so the next place I want to go, Jason, is what was your first podcast you ever launched?
- [12:14]
B
That was it. It was the Walking Dead cast.
- [12:16]
A
Okay, so that was your first. Your first show is like the major show that got you on television, got you interviews with the cast. Nearly everybody in the cast that you'd want to talk to of your favorite television show from your favorite series of comics from years ago, just right out of the gate. That is incredible. But it's not your only show. So what else have you done? What did it spawn, if you will?
- [12:51]
B
I wonder if this is the place to mention. I'll say one more thing that the Walking Dead cast spawned was more podcasts started coming up about the Walking Dead. I think there were about 60 at the peak. And when new ones would come out, I would listen. And a couple of. Sometimes I would be like, wow, these guys are really good. And I early on decided not to freak out about that and think of everybody as competition, but instead to think of, like, collaborators. And so I would just reach out and say, hey, I do a Walking Dead podcast, too. I listen to your stuff. It was great. And sometimes that would lead to working together on things. And one pair of podcasters in particular, started what they called the Walker Stalker Podcast. And I did that with them and I helped them figure out how to get their own interviews. And they ended up putting on a convention for the Walking Dead, the premier Walking Dead convention, Walker Stalker Con. And it went on for years. And they asked me and my co host to come out and do the Panel Q&As. And so I ended up working with them for six or seven years. And so then I met, you know, all the cast. I'd hang out with them sometimes and just be up on stage doing Q and A's. That convention, if anybody knows, it kind of went down the tubes at the end. But while it was great, it was just a ton of fun. That's okay for me to mention that.
- [14:15]
A
No, it's. It's a dude. Mention anything you want in this interview because I'm eager to hear from your experience. I love that and what that really points out to you. Speak to the mindset of a content creator when maybe you're the first or an early person to a particular niche. And today that's a little bit more challenging than before. Although when in the entertainment fan podcasts, there's always new movie series coming out, there's always new television shows that are coming out. And so you may be that first. And I will tell you that Stephanie and I were not the first Lost podcasters. Jay and Jack were out there before us. Ryan and Jen Ozawa with the Transmission podcast were out there before us. There was a couple of other shows out there, and we were welcomed with open arms by everyone. It was incredible. In fact, we had Jay and Jack got together with Ryan and Jen and one other, and they created what was called the Lost Podcast Network. And that was basically one of them. Started up a Blogger account that was then owned by Google at the time Google had purchased it. So they just had a username login. And of course, Blogger blogs had an RSS feed. And then we used feedburner to take that feed and Media enclosed those files that were linked in it. So what we did is I was invited once we started podcasting to join the Lost Podcast Network. So by our third episode, we're a part of a network that's been around for an entire season before we got started in podcasting. So this network already had a massive audience. And when we were invited with the login credentials to go in and publish our third episode, just put our show notes in there as a blog post link to the MP3 file. Our third episode was downloaded by 27,000 people. It's like, what? And it's that kind of not seeing everybody as competition, but cooperation and, you know, the rising tide raises all boats kind of philosophy. I like that.
- [16:34]
B
Yeah. Not only did it feel better, but it did lead to more success. Absolutely. You know, I did the same thing with. If you've heard of the Bald Move Network, they have a bunch of TV fan podcasts. They're very successful. And when they started their walking podcast, I reached out to them, and then we ended up collaborating on a podcast on a different show later and, you know, just being friends and inviting each other to things and things like that. So opportunities opened up.
- [17:04]
A
That is awesome. All right, so you mentioned back when I was doing this as a hobby, it was easy for me to kind of just like, it's okay if that doesn't happen. So that leads me to think that podcasting made a transition from a hobby to something more full time at some point. Tell us a little bit about that journey.
- [17:22]
B
Yeah, I was working at a soul sucking job. You might know a little something about that too. And as podcasting became more fun and more lucrative because I started doing some sponsorships, I decided to just get rid of that and do it full time. And I was, you know, sort of building it up first, just testing out to see if I thought it would be a good idea. I started a Patreon. I decided I should probably have a network because I mistakenly thought the Walking Dead would end at some point. Apparently it never will, but so I wanted something to outlive that. Right. So I started the Podcastica Network and we had a show on Game of Thrones and another show that my friends did on comic books. And those three were kind of the three beginner starting podcasts for our network. But, you know, we've had like something like 30, 35 podcasts since then, and I'm on maybe a little less than half of those, I would say. So I've been doing that since, I think, 2014. So it's been a little over 10 years that I've just been doing podcasting as a job.
- [18:37]
A
I love that. Has there been a time where you're like, man, I wish this was still just a hobby?
- [18:46]
B
No, I think so, yeah. The thing about podcasting is, so when we started the Walking Dead cast, I was 39 and I'm 54 now, so it's been 15 freaking years. And before that, in all my 39 years, I never had a job that I felt like, oh, my God, this is my calling. You know, or I just love everything about this, even when it's hard. And that's how I feel about podcasting. I mean, sure, there's some things that I like better than others, but it's just I still have joy when I do it. You know, even to this day, I still, I've actually come to like the editing, which I didn't like so much at first, so now I really love it. I mean, the hardest part is it's not making as much money as I would like.
- [19:39]
A
Well, speaking of. Yeah, speaking about that, how has the income generation happened for you? You talked about sponsors, you talked about Patreon. Feel free to be as cagey with details as you want to be or as open and authentic and transparent with details. It's up to you completely.
- [19:57]
B
Yeah. I mean, it's two fronts, advertising and crowdfunding. And I was with a group called Midroll for a while there and doing a lot of ad reads that we would do ourselves. These days it's more dynamically inserted pre done ads. I'm with a group called podglomerate now. So I just put in spots where the ads go and then they get the ads for us and I can choose which categories I'd like for them to include or not. And then on the crowdfunding side, I have Patreon. And that has also been amazing. Like, one of the things that we did with Patreon is like, okay, I need some perks. Let me try a Facebook group. Maybe that'll be cool. And it ended up being a real community of friends who have meetups every year where they pick a different part of the country and rent an Airbnb and get together, you know, or we have, we got each other through Covid. We had like multiple nights, game nights per week for a while there. Just that really saved a lot of people just to have that social. And so there's been, it's been like way beyond my wildest dreams. And the, the network is really filled with those people, like the ones who would call in and have really insightful stuff to say or just be really fun. I'd invite them to guest and then if it went well, I'd ask them if they wanted to do more. And so that's really how the network has built out, just with listeners who became hosts. I forgot your question. Oh, it was about the money, but you get the idea. It's mostly the crowdfunding and the advertising. Yeah.
- [21:42]
A
So when you started the Facebook group as one of the perks was that before Patreon included Discuss or Discord servers as a part of something that was automatically baked into their system.
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B
Yeah, it was. Yeah. And I've been offering Discord now. And Facebook recently got rid of group connected chats after I'd spent a long time building all of that out. And so then I was like, okay, we have this Discord sitting over here that I offered, but it haven't put much into it. It hasn't been that. And I really started advertising it more to people. So it's been getting more and more active lately because I'd like to have something that I have a little bit more control over. But I also feel like, you know, at first, when I first started doing this, I wanted to control it. Like, wait, you guys are having a chat over here that I'm not a part of? What's going on with that? And now I'm just like, no, no, no. Just let it evolve and be what it wants to be and try to meet people where they are and just kind of shepherd it rather than trying to confine it or, you know, control it too much. Does that. I mean, how do you feel about that? Have you ever had experience with those kind of feelings?
- [23:00]
A
Yeah, absolutely, I have. So when I started building our community for our GSPN network, the generally speaking production network, back in the day, I was using PHP BB boards off of our hosted servers. So it was just the old school bulletin board.
- [23:18]
B
Yeah, those are cool.
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A
Yeah. Online forums were the thing. I mean, heck, we modeled ours based upon what the official Lost television show was doing. So they had their own PHP BB board the fuselage. The fuselage, yes.
- [23:33]
B
Yeah.
- [23:34]
A
Yes. So we had our own GSPN version of the fuselage, and that's what we were using. Because Facebook groups weren't a thing yet, and Patreon wasn't a thing yet. But I would imagine that I would have some of those same kind of concerns that I would be weighing through. Do I want to move this over to a Facebook group and how much control do I have over this? The kinds of questions that you're saying, those are questions I've had with other things that I've created. I have. The reason why I was asking you is, I was thinking, man, it seems to me that if you didn't already have a perk, that is a Facebook group, that a Discord seems to be a plug and play solution that works fairly well with some other content creators that are there. That's why I'm just curious.
- [24:25]
B
Sure. I mean, things to think about for me, as far as all that goes is my audience is closer to my age. I think they're a little younger, but they're, you know, mid-30s to 40s. Yeah, 40s and 30s. And I think they're more comfortable with Facebook. They're already there so it's easy to just click over and see what's going on in the. We call it that head community. And I think when I did start promoting Discord more they're like, we have to download an app. Yes, that work, you know, but once people get into it, I think they have fun with it.
- [25:00]
A
Yeah, that's. You're bringing up the, the right things to consider for sure. And there. I don't think there is a right or a wr answer to what you offer there. There are pros and pros and setbacks to any of these platforms. But yeah, the fact is that down I can tell you right now, to this day, I'm an incredibly technically literate person. I mean I could figure out how to do practically anything I wanted to do technology wise. To this day, I am subscribed to to actually I have joined somewhere between 7 to 10 Slack channels since Slack was first introduced, but I have logged in exactly zero times to any of those channels to ever read or interact or engage on a Slack channel. I don't know what it is. It's just an extra app that just. I guess what I'm. I'd say to the point you were making, there hasn't been a Slack channel community that was important enough for me to go in and log in and check out what's going on there.
- [26:16]
B
Yeah. And I feel like, I don't know, I should do a poll or something. But the people, some of the people anyway, who are more active on our Discord are the people who are just really disenchanted with Facebook. I know that for sure. And they want. They were glad when I started promoting it more. But I think there are just some people who are like, all right, I don't really want to download an app, but I love this community and Jason keeps saying that there's chat going on there, so I'm going to go check it out and see what's up.
- [26:46]
A
Yeah.
- [26:48]
B
And some of them stick around.
- [26:50]
A
So when you have other shows that are hosted by other people in your network, how are you handling the scenario where. What. How do people get paid? Do the other hosts of other shows, are they getting paid? Are they getting a shared revenue source or anything? How are you handling that?
- [27:09]
B
Actually, it's mostly volunteer and I tend to give them Something at the end of the year, depending on how much I've made, how much we've made. So it's really a labor of love for most people that do it.
- [27:24]
A
Yeah. You know, when I started Generally Speaking Podcast Network, it was myself and my wife. So we were the hosts of most of the shows. But then I launched, there was no show on our network where myself or my wife were not one of the co hosts. So we each had our own solo hosted show or shows we each had, we did our own co hosted shows for a lot of entertainment shows and other various genres. But my wife had a show that had a co host that was at one point called Full Time Mom. Then they came back a couple years later and they started a new show called Authentic Life Radio. And so she had a co host there, but same thing. Her friend who co hosted with her knew that this is how we're earning an income, a living, and she was just happy to be on this show, to, to have a voice and to be of encouragement to a community. So she totally understood that this is just a volunteer scenario. Then I had a podcast called Help. I got a Mac with Chris biting and he and I talked. I'm like, listen, this is how I'm trying to learn, earn an income. And even the network was not even enough to pay our bills. So for us, we were, I was doing podcast coaching and consulting on the side and he's like, cliff, that's no big deal. I love sharing this. And what's fun is over the course of the years that he was my co host for that show, he upgraded his professional career path three different times, getting promoted to a new position in a new company, each time with a significant pay increase directly as the result of being a co host on the show. And then the same happened, same kind of things happened with Eric Fisher for Social Media Serenity. And there was Andy Traub with Business Tech Weekly. And so those guys all were volunteers. Never once did they ask for it to be paid. We made sure they understood that it wasn't a paying position when they came on as co hosts. And yet I also made sure, I want to know, how is this a win for you? And all of them will tell you so many wins that came into their life as a result of that exposure to those audiences.
- [29:50]
B
Yeah, I mean, I, yeah, it's good. You have to be super clear of what's being offered. And a lot of the times hosts on my network have asked me, can I do a show? And I always, from the start, have when it was just me and Karen have said, okay, there's two things I want this to be. It has to be fun. If it's not fun anymore, then especially when it's a hobby. Right. There's no point in doing it if it's not fun. And I want it to be good. So we got to put enough into it that it's going to be good. It's not just some throwaway thing where we don't try. So anyway, that's kind of what I say to all the hosts too. And I tell them, if you're not having fun anymore, there's no problem if you decide you don't want to do it. I ask hosts if they start a season of a show, if they would just try to finish the season out and then if they don't feel like coming back for the next season, no problem at all.
- [30:47]
A
Yeah. So have you done any shows for like the modern day successes like Severance or there's Pluribus is out now. Any have what, what's your. Have you dabbled in any of those fields with your network?
- [31:04]
B
Absolutely, yeah. One recent success for us, I was really shocked. It was the White Lotus and I got my wife involved, you know, kind of took after you a little bit. It was me and her and another host and we. During last year there was kind of a gap because of the whole writers and actors strike. So there wasn't a lot of new interesting content coming out. So we just went back, started from the beginning with White Lotus and covered the first two seasons. So we were ready when season season three came out. And then that, that podcast just got a lot more downloads than we were getting on a lot of other things. So that was really fun. Now she's doing her own podcast with another host on the show Heated Rivalry that's out on HBO right now about hot romance with hockey pro hockey players. But Pluribus I love so much. I mean, so Karen, my original co host, she kind of got burned out on the Walking Dead towards the end and she decided she didn't want to do it anymore. So I found another co host and she's been, you know, aside from a few guesting things, been gone for recent years, but she's. Her batteries are recharged so she wanted to come back in and cover Pluribus with me. And I was so, so happy for that. So are a lot of our listeners who just loved her and loved hearing us together. So anyway, we've been back covering that show and we're really loving it. So much. We're huge Vince Gilligan fans, and, you know, I had high expectations and hopes for that show, but it's really been great. Are you digging it?
- [32:31]
A
Oh, gosh, I love it. And I am. After we're finished with this conversation today, I'm going to go look up your Pluribus podcast, because I am. I can't listen to their bonus episodes because they're phoned in and usually they're not key people in the production at the level of what's there in studio recording in the main episodes. But there's just such joy as this podcast coach in the world. When I start a major television production, and the very first splash screen is after you watch this episode, listen to the official podcast for this production. I'm like, I love that. Ah, it's so great.
- [33:20]
B
Vince Gilligan has a history of that. They had the official Breaking Bad podcast and Better Call Saul, and now they're doing Pluribus. And one thing I like about what they're doing is they tend to cover the production details and not analysis of character and story quite as much. So they're kind of complementary. That's what I always say when we talk about their podcast is like, yeah, you should listen to that. But we're different. So we. We cover some bases that they. I think Vince Gilligan just doesn't want to tell people what to think. He wants them to come to it themselves, you know?
- [33:52]
A
Yeah. And I like that.
- [33:54]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [33:55]
A
And I love the production. There have been. There have been three different times where I watched the episode and then I listened to how it was made, and I'm like, I'm gonna go watch that episode again and pick up on details that I missed the first time. And, ah, it is such a wonderful show.
- [34:13]
B
So recently I decided to try a different tactic. I have a bunch of podcasts that are dedicated to that show, and I one day just thought, wow, I have all these podcasts, especially with the TV landscape these days, where they just do a few episodes and then they're gone for, like, maybe two years. I have all these podcasts that are dormant most of the time, and it's hard to build up an audience. So I decided to start a single podcast. It's called Wax Episodic, where I just cover different shows that I love. Pick. Pick really good shows and bring in different hosts that I think would be great for those. And so we started with Alien Earth earlier this year, which I thought was fantastic. And then we went back and did the first season of Fallout, which I Love. So we could be ready for Fallout Season 2, which is playing right now. And then that's where we're doing Pluribus and we're doing it. Welcome to Derry. It's got a bit of a horror flavor right now. I might want to change that a little bit and do some other types of things, but that's a new thing that I've been doing. Instead of separate podcasts, trying to do a single one where I keep the
- [35:18]
A
audience going, what about Stranger Things? Did you get involved with that?
- [35:23]
B
Yeah, so I have. We have a podcast called Strange Indeed that has different hosts and that's their baby. And I'll go on there and guest every once in a while. But they. In between seasons, which is a long time with that show. They've just done other Netflix shows like Black Mirror and just different Netflix shows
- [35:46]
A
in that feed or.
- [35:48]
B
Yeah.
- [35:49]
A
Really? How does that work?
- [35:50]
B
Indeed. I mean, they have their audience that love them, you know, and that follow along. And a lot of times with all our shows, we hear that people watch shows that they wouldn't have otherwise because we're podcasting on it, which is kind of fun. One thing that I think we all. All of us podcasters hate about Netflix is that they release the seasons all at once. Yeah. So. And we're doing weekly, you know, because we want to really dive into each episode and unpack it. So over there on Strange Indeed with Rima and Paik, they are always behind the listeners who binge the whole thing, and they force themselves not to watch ahead. And it's. I think they probably lose a lot of listeners along the way who just binged it, and then they're. They don't have time for the podcast. But there are the loyalists who stick with it. But I really. I did a couple of shows like that where they came out all at once, and I didn't like that aspect of it. So now I really try to stick to the ones that come out weekly. And I hope if Netflix actually does go through with this purchase of Warner Brothers and hbo, that they don't make HBO do that or start releasing all the shows all at once, you know? Yeah, I know some people like that as. As consumers, but as podcasters, it's much better weekly and personally meet. Like, if a show that I really like comes out all at once. Yeah, I'll probably watch a couple at my episodes or more at once, but I think you can have a greater appreciation of it if you have to take some time to think about it in between.
- [37:23]
A
So just an Inside Baseball kind of thing. Have you thought about creating a feed for Stranger Things that only has Stranger Things episodes in it? And the reason why I say that is because they're maybe. I mean, Stranger Things is a phenomenon. Right. And so there are people who are. By the way, my wife and I binge watched the first four seasons, like two and a half weeks before we finished the four seasons. Right before episode one through four dropped of season five. So there are people who are like us, and then there are going to be people who start watching this show even after it's finished. And I would imagine that the archives of your show could be incredibly valuable to somebody who wants to go back and they're listening to season one, episode one, and then listen to your podcast about season one, episode one, or podcast episodes about that and go through. But if there's all of those other shows and other stuff that's in there, I just wonder if you had thought about the idea of having a pure feedback only for people who later come to this particular brand of show. And every episode in the archives is just that.
- [38:48]
B
Yeah, I mean, we keep going kind of back and forth about, you know, what I was talking about a minute ago, whether to have a single podcast for a single show or to put multiple shows in one. And I had thought about. I asked Rima, the host of Strange Indeed, if she thought we should just break all the shows that they cover out into their own separate podcasts. But I don't know if we ever thought about doing both. Having the Strange Indeed feed with all those shows and then a separate Stranger Things feed. Yeah, that might be a good idea,
- [39:21]
A
just for the archives. You know, you've got the audience that are subscribed to the 1. I would not do anything to change that, but just duplicate the feed. You could just import the RSS into another podcast plan and then delete all of the episodes that are not homogeneous to that particular show.
- [39:45]
B
Yeah, and maybe I should actually, like I said, I started wax episodic. It has Alien Earth, it welcome to Derry, Pluribus and Fallout. And I should consider doing that with this, too. I mean, we're what, 35 episodes in, so it's not a super long feed. But that's going to be an issue going forward when these shows start.
- [40:03]
A
What it does is it makes this content evergreen, especially since these shows are on demand and can be streamed and people can join in even after the production of the show has ended.
- [40:15]
B
I mean, even on the Walking Dead, we get listeners often coming in saying, hey, I just found You a couple months ago, and I binged through all your Walking Dead stuff. Eleven seasons worth. Really? Wow. Thank you.
- [40:28]
A
So check this out. I'm looking here. There were two, if you go to Lost podcast, there were 261 episodes of the Lost podcast. The last episode that was produced was the finale part two. So that was June 12, 2010. That podcast still gets hundreds of new downloads every month today.
- [40:57]
B
That's great.
- [40:59]
A
And what is that 15 and a half years later?
- [41:04]
B
That's another show. That was a great pick to do. Oh, it's such a classic.
- [41:09]
A
You talk. I mean, we always talk about the TV show. Lost changed our life forever. And of course, podcasting along with it. That was right place, right time for everything. It's amazing.
- [41:26]
B
It changed tv. Yeah, it's a big deal.
- [41:29]
A
So, Jason, what has been, would you say your biggest joy with podcasting over all of these years? And what would you say has been your biggest challenge or frustration?
- [41:46]
B
Biggest joy has just been getting to have these experiences of connection. And I don't know why, but the word juiciness is coming into my mind because when I'm in the middle of a podcast and I take a ton of notes, but we go off script, it's not really a script, but we just discover something in the moment, whether it's something funny or interesting or whatever. And that's like the key to why I think I've been able to keep doing this is because I just love those moments. And with the network really being built out, so I've had a chance to podcast with a lot of different people and get to know them and connect with them and appreciate their differences in their own unique perspectives. Just that there's a lot to love about podcasting, but that's the one probably that stands out the most. Just great moments.
- [42:42]
A
What about your biggest challenge over the years?
- [42:46]
B
I, I, Some of these people I don't like. No, I'm just kidding. Getting rid of them. No, it's been, it's been the money. It really has. Like, I, yeah, I just, I'm not a good marketer, you know, I, I'm good at making podcasts, but I'm not so great at promoting them. And so that's probably been where the biggest area of improvement for me. And I'm doing well enough with it to keep doing it, but it's, you know, it always feels like a struggle.
- [43:23]
A
Gotcha. Well, you know, I'm just getting ready to publish this Friday, episode 478 of podcast answer Man. In it, I'm Going to share Stephen Bartlett's tips for how to grow your podcast. He created a podcast episode a while back called how I made $1.2 million a year with this podcast. And he shares and he says at the beginning of it, and by the way, I'm gonna share with you how any of you could do this as well, following these six or seven simple tips. And my episode is basically sharing what he said and how I call baloney on that. However, I do share at the end 10 tips on how you can expand your audience to grow your get in front of a new audience pretty consistently. So I'll make sure to send you a link to that Jason after it publishes podcastanswerman.com episode 478.
- [44:28]
B
I mean, yeah, back in the day when you were doing that show before I subscribed and listened to listen and got so many great tips from you and so much inspiration, you know, I. You were a key figure early on in my podcasting and I'm excited that you're gonna be back and the landscape has changed. So I'm curious to see, you know, what you're gonna say about how things are different now and all your tips and everything. So that's great. Great to hear.
- [44:58]
A
I love it. Are you doing any video with the shows that you're creating?
- [45:06]
B
We record on Zoom and I have the video, but I'm trying to figure out how I can put that into my workflow and be able to do it with the time that I have. I have two kids and it's, you know, already podcasting is taking up a lot of time. I think I over edit. That's one lesson I did not learn from you. I get in there and really tinker with it, and I've gotten a lot faster over the years, but I want to because I know that these days a lot of podcasters that are really successful have a YouTube presence.
- [45:43]
A
Well, I'll definitely have you listen to episode 478. Little teaser there. Podcastanswerman.com 478 if anybody's interested. Of course, that won't be live until the Friday after we're recording this, but yeah, I don't think that video is the answer for everyone, but there's certainly some things if you ever want to. Happy to brainstorm with you on what Stephanie and I did back in the day. You say that you're already doing the recordings of these on Zoom? Yeah, it doesn't hurt to just do the recordings of those live streamed so you could actually let your community know that we record this podcast unedited, live, in front of an audience. And then all of a sudden, if you wanted to, you could bring in people's comments from the audience if you want to. It's good to have a moderator, by the way, or two or three, you could take in live callers if you wanted to do that, and you. And they could be included into the recording and all that stuff. And then technically speaking, you have a live audience. You're recording the actual show with no much more, with actually no additional time required than having the zoom call without an audience. Maybe an extra 10 minutes on the front end, an extra 10 minutes on the back end, but really nothing more than that. And then you have your recordings and you may or may not include that audience live participation in there. And you can still do the edits and that alone streamed live on YouTube, Facebook, LinkedIn X platform. You might be surprised at how well that would do.
- [47:34]
B
That is not a bad idea. I mean one of the reasons. So I figured with YouTube I would never even dream of doing as thorough and edit as I do to my audio, but maybe I could just trim the beginning and end and stick it up there every once in a while. There's parts in there where we say something and I'm like, nah, I don't think I'd want that going out to the public. But I think if we were live streaming it, that would not come out right.
- [48:01]
A
Yeah, if you know you're streaming live to an audience that you will be very self selective. You'll self filter what you need to filter there.
- [48:09]
B
Yeah, like personal details or whatever like that.
- [48:12]
A
Right. And so you and I are doing this interview right here. Wait, this is live?
- [48:17]
B
No, just kidding.
- [48:19]
A
No, it doesn't say livestream right in between us at all. But here's.
- [48:23]
B
I can't read. I forgot to tell you that.
- [48:25]
A
There you go. But the fun thing is that this interview, when I invited you to this interview, I invited you to a live show interview where I'm doing a series called where are they Now People? I helped launch a podcast more than a decade ago. What are they doing in the world of podcasting today? Where has podcasting taking them? And then if you look at that invitation, you'll notice it says and I may include a portion or the entire part of our interview in one or more of my podcasts. And so the way I see this is that this will exist in its own form as a live stream, unedited. But if I do choose to put this. And more than likely there will be a place where I would put this and it's called the what are you creating Podcast. And so it'll be a. Because it's my only interview format show that I have and it's basically talking to people who are creating things in the world that they love. And we talk about what is it that you are creating. And for you the answer will be a podcast network about television shows that I love. And so this would be a great fit for that. But if I put this in there, I have one of two options. I could just take the entire conversation from beginning to end and just drop the mp3 file in or and what I likely will do is go through and just check to see if there's any logical edit points that need to be made. And the more edited, more tightened production will go out into the podcast feed. Whereas I will do nothing to change what happened on the live stream. And that's how I handled. We were doing live streams of the lost podcast and those other entertainment shows way back in the day. Even before we had the live stream for YouTube. We were using Ustream TV and all sorts of other weird stuff that was available back in the day.
- [50:28]
B
This has turned into a coaching session. It's great. My question for you is my schedule's all over the place because I have one of my co hosts is in Scotland and you know, it's just people have different availabilities. Do you? Do you. I think I know the answer to this, but do you think something like that could work if I'm not so regular about when they go up.
- [50:52]
A
So here's as a coach, here's one of my philosophies. The most important story you will ever hear is the story you tell yourself about yourself. So you can make up your own narrative about what things means. So if your schedule was I can be consistent at the same place, the same time every single week. That certainly has its benefits and it's probably going to give you the most amount of people who will consistently show up and put it as a recurring reminder on the their calendar. But given the fact that that's probably the highest truth that there is. The reality is is that I could make an argument on how what you just said could work to your benefit. And that is it's nobody really knows when the show is going to go live, which means that is an incentive to sign up for your patreon so that they will be notified when you choose the date and time of the next live stream. The only people who get notified are our patreon subscribers now anybody can join us if you happen to see that we're live. But at least you know, we all, because our co host situation is different countries, schedules, all this other stuff, it changes from week to week and so we always know at least 24 or 48 hours in advance. And as soon as it's on the schedule, we immediately notify all of our Patreon supporters. See Perks.
- [52:25]
B
That's great.
- [52:26]
A
I love it. Hey, before we wrap up, is there anything else that you would want to share to somebody out there who is thinking about starting a podcast?
- [52:38]
B
I would say go for it. First of all, I mean, that's such a broad thing that you know the different reasons why somebody might want to do it. But for me, it's essential for me that I care about whatever it is I decide to podcast on enough to really want to talk about it. And that pulls me through all the stuff that's a little more of a something to overcome potentially, like learning the tech or just figuring it all out. I mean, the excitement of actually doing it pulls me through all of that. So if you feel excited to do it, then, yeah, it's so much fun. Try it. You know, do that thing that I said at the beginning where, hey, who knows how things this is going to go. Let me just try it and find out. And also I would say, and probably everyone says this and you may have already heard it, but don't worry about it being perfect. Just worry about, you know, the feelings around it. You know, how, how much fun is it to think about doing it and, you know, have a talk with somebody and. And over time, I've really refined things and shaking things up occasionally when things feel stale. So it changes over time. It doesn't come out fully formed the first time you do it. It's. You learn by doing as you go. So that's another thing. You know, I know some people think, okay, I'm going to do the podcast, but I just have to get everything all straight before I ever start. And I would say, no, just get the bare minimum that you need to do it and go for it.
- [54:32]
A
I love that. That's great advice. You know, the first 30 or so episodes of the Lost podcast would make me cringe to play it out loud and have other people listen to it with me in the room. But you know what? I put them out there. And like I said, by the third episode, I'm sitting there talking to 27,000 people around the world. And we were, I mean, totally. It was terrible. I Mean, it was terrible audio quality. It was.
- [55:02]
B
Yeah.
- [55:03]
A
And I wasn't the best host either. I did.
- [55:06]
B
I bet you started off pretty good.
- [55:08]
A
I challenge you to listen.
- [55:11]
B
Really? I don't know. Audio quality is the thing when I go back, and I don't. We're doing a rewatch of the Walking Dead right now, so we went back to the first episode, and with full knowledge of the series and just going one by one. We've been on that for, like, two years. And I have not gone back to listen to my early ones, in part because I don't want to color my current opinions, but also I'm a little bit nervous to hear what I sounded like back then. But occasionally I will pull one up, and mostly it's the audio quality that gets me. It sounds like I'm in a cave or something.
- [55:45]
A
Yeah, well, in 2005, we didn't have a lot to be compared to, and quite frankly, if you were even remotely close to your microphone, you sounded better than 90% of all podcasts that were in existence back in the day. So it's great stuff. All right.
- [56:01]
B
When we have guests on, they tend to go like this and just talk over here. And I'm like, just see how much better it sounds when you actually get close.
- [56:08]
A
You know, that's why I say, if you got a guest or a co host, never let that person sit there and talk with you in a podcast episode without them having headphones on, where they're monitoring their own voice because they need to hear when and they turn their head. That it just did that. And it's like, oh, wait a second. When I talk over here, the volume of my voice changes. It's like, yes, it does.
- [56:30]
B
Stay on the mic.
- [56:33]
A
Ah, fun stuff. Jason, thank you so much for sharing your story. It is a joy to know that you're still out there crushing it, that it's still providing a living for you.
- [56:44]
B
Well, I mean, thanks so much for inviting me to talk about this. I'm honored. I saw that, yeah. You were going to be the podcast answer man again, and I'm happy to be a part of this new launch.
- [56:56]
A
Awesome. Thank you, Jason. Oh, by the way, podcastica.com, right? Is that where you want them to go?
- [57:01]
B
That's it.
- [57:02]
A
All right, before you go, if you are building something meaningful as a business and you are using content and your voice to share your message with the world, and you'd like to surround yourself with other people who are thinking at a high level about their work and their life and their next season of growth, I would love to invite you into the Next Level Mastermind. This is something that I created in 2017 because I saw so many people out there who had made the big leap into self employment but then found themselves isolated and struggling on their own to figure out what it is that they didn't know that they needed to know to create a successful business. I have two different groups of the Next Level Mastermind depending on where you are in your journey. I have a group for those who are, like myself, established entrepreneurs. You have already validated your products and services. You've already shown up in the world and have people that have paid for your services who have lots of praise. They say great things about the results and the transformation they get from experiencing the work you do in the world. If you are an established entrepreneur, I've got a group for you. Then there are those who are out there trying to find their way in the online business world. If you are not making at least $10,000 a month every single month, consistently without fail. I have a group for aspiring and early stage entrepreneurs. I personally facilitate each of these groups. I am in every meeting and I would love to do life with you. If you are interested, email me today. Cliffravenscraft.com until next time my friends. We encourage you to take your message, your voice and whatever business pursuits you may have to the Next Level. Podcast and some man.