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- [00:00]
A
Well, I guess this is an important episode. Welcome to episode number 500 of podcast answer Man. You know, this show has a significant history for me. It has definitely represented multiple seasons of my life, personally and professionally. I look back at the archives of what has been produced in this show, and I recognize that it is a substantial body of work. Over the past two decades, I have served an incredible community of creators, and it has given me the opportunity to be involved in thousands of conversations about what it means to share your voice with the world. But podcasting has changed a lot. Well, okay, the core essence of podcasting is still the same as what I fell in love with more than 20 years ago, but the podcasting space has changed a lot. And of course, there's lots of commentary out there. Everybody has an opinion on what's going on in the podcasting space. Of course, there are those who have skin in the game who say podcasting is growing as an industry. And of course, you've probably heard some people suggest that the listenership or viewership for those of you who like video, is shrinking. Ironically, those are some of the same people who say that podcasting is over saturated. I heard somebody talk about how podcasting is being disrupted by AI or replaced by YouTube. And unfortunately, I feel like so many people out there have just come to the conclusion that creating a podcast, consistently showing up, is simply just not worth the effort like it once was. And I get it. Some of the people that I've talked to, they have seen the numbers, the decrease. Heck, there were several months during the pandemic where most podcast consumers stopped listening to podcasts and were on clubhouse 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Okay, maybe that's a little bit over the top, but there were several of us, and I do mean by several of us, 10, tens of thousands of us who were on Clubhouse approximately four to eight hours a day. And I know some who exceeded eight hours a day. And that really cut into podcast consumption. It cut into the habit of listening to multiple shows hours upon hours every week. And during that same time frame, there was TikTok that was growing in popularity with its algorithm tuned to drip your dopamine on an ongoing, consistent basis if you would just scroll for the next four to six hours of your life without even being consciously aware that it's happening. And all of that did break the habit for tens of thousands and maybe hundreds of thousands of the most loyal and dedicated podcast listeners. Now, not all of them had gone away from podcasting, and I would say most of them probably had not gone away from podcasting. I think many of them, like myself, returned to their first love of audio content. But I know in my own world, my own experience is that I consume about 20 to 25% of the amount of content in audio through podcasting that I once did. That 75% of my other time, effort and energy does get consumed by other media. I like TikTok personally and I also do like YouTube long form content. Not podcasts per se, but other content. And just the fact that there are so many other ways to interact in communities with other people, there's just a lot of competition for time and, and so podcasting. Many people, including myself since the pandemic, have noticed that a single episode may not be reaching the same number of people that it once was. But for me, podcasting has never been about the numbers. It might sound crazy, but there's not a I've done over 55 podcasts, shows over 5,000 podcast episodes, and I've never been concerned about, quote unquote, growing my audience. Some of my favorite podcasts I've produced. I've produced hundreds of podcast episodes for for an audience of approximately 1,000 to 2,000 people. I produced an audio journal podcast that had 392 episodes for 65 subscribers. And so you might be asking, well Cliff, if you don't do it to grow your audience so that you can reach more people, then what the heck are you doing over there? Why have you published 500 episodes of podcast Answerman? And for me, the reason is because it helps me build trust. I consider podcasting to be a trust engine. You see, I intentionally create content that is longer in format. I typically average an hour in length. Lately I've been releasing some shorter episodes. Has a lot to do with some extensive travel and conference speaking and other things that have been going on in my world and trying to squeeze in some episodes before the deadline for which I've committed to. But you know, for me it's about showing up consistently so that people have the opportunity to hear how I process things, to hear the process of how I discern what I discern, how do I respond to what's going on in the world, into what's going on in life, in business, to get a feel for how much I care about the things that I care about, to get a feeling of how I teach and also how I wrestle with the stuff I deal with in life. It's not about creating all of this practical information. Here's five steps to how you can do this, which is, let me show you. I've got all of the answers. I've figured all of this out. Let me share it with you in list format. There's nothing wrong that if you do that, that's fine. But that's not my approach. Most of the time, I've done a handful of those episodes. There's nothing wrong with it. But most of the time, I'm not here to share with you a list of practical things or to wow you with my polished production value. I mean, this is my 500th episode. I didn't even put an audio jingle in front of this thing. I'm here because I know that there are people listening. There are people who are downloading this episode, and they're out there hearing my voice now. You are hearing my voice now. In fact, you may have been hearing my voice every week ever since I've brought back this show, and you've not once thought to reach out and tell me that you're listening, but here you are listening to my voice right now, and maybe you listened to my voice last week and maybe the week before that and the week before that, and there's no need. There's no pressure for you to reach out and let me know. There's certainly not your responsibility. There's no expectation that you're somehow required to let content creators know that you're consuming their content. I see the number of downloads there are. Of course, that doesn't mean there's that many people listening, but I know that there's a high percentage of those people who are actively listening, but I don't know who they all are. The interesting thing is, though, is that it's resonating with some people enough for them to actually reach out and say, cliff, I am so thrilled that you've brought back Podcast Answer Man. You know, I listened to you. I probably found Podcast Answer man back in 2010 or 2011, and they'll just pick a date back in that time frame when they first discovered me. And then when you kind of transitioned over to just the Cliff Ravenscraft show, I kind of lost touch for a while. And it was an email you sent a couple months back when you said, why Podcast Answer man is back. And it's like that email subject line caught my attention. No offense, but I hadn't really read a lot of your emails since then. I still been on your list and your emails come through. But when I saw Podcast Answer man is back and why, I immediately read that email and I clicked and I saw that you published a new episode of podcasting. And I've been listening ever since you've been back. And then they go on to tell me about how they were impacted by this thing that I said, this thing that I said, this thing that I said. And you know what they say next? I'm ready to work with you. I want to be in a mastermind group with you. I would love to enter into a coaching relationship with you. You have been speaking directly to my heart. It's like you've been reading my journal. It's like my wife has been feeding you the conversations that I've been having with her. Every single episode. Just, it's like, wow, you've got a direct line into exactly what's going on in my world. And I love how you share just authentically. I love the episode where you are sitting at the end of the bed in the Airbnb and you're running right up against the deadline and you just shared that experience and I finally had to reach out. And you know what? I get those kind of conversations or those conversations happen on an ongoing, consistent basis. And it's been happening for 20 years. What's going on here? How is this a trust engine? How is audio podcasting any different than all of the other forms of content? Well, a couple of things. People are out there discovering me through various different means. Maybe you discovered me because you saw me speak at Social Media Marketing World just a few weeks ago in Anaheim, California. It was the first time you'd ever heard of me. You came to my 90 minute workshop on the limited series format podcast and then you saw my email address as cliffodcastanswerman.com and then you said, you know what, let me check out this podcast, answerman.com and you listened to an episode and then you started to subscribe and you've been listening ever since. And you may be three, seven or 48 episodes away from finally reaching out to me and saying, hey Cliff, I'd to love like to talk to you. It could be that you're going to be about 230 episodes before you reach out and talk to me. However, there are some of you who are listening to me today who are going to reach out within the next seven days and many more within the next 30 days, and many more than that in the next 90 days, and so on and so on and so on. Why? Why will you reach out? Because you'd never heard my name before you found me in some space? Maybe. Maybe you read John Lee Dumas book Uncommon Path to Uncommon or the Common Path to Uncommon Success. Maybe you read one of Pat Flynn's books, maybe you've read some of these other books from people that I've had the privilege of working with over the years and they may mention me by name and you go look me up and you signed up for my mailing list and maybe one of my emails sent you to the podcast and you've been listening ever since. And here's what I can tell you. I can send out emails till I'm blue in the face. I can send out YouTube videos out into the algorithm world. I can send out social media posts that you may or may not ever see based upon, even though that you're following me or connected or you're a friend or a follower. It's just whatever the whim is of the algorithm, whether or not you see me. But if you actually finally somehow make your way to my podcast in your podcast app of choice and you hit subscribe, or I think they call it follow on so many of these things today. But anyway, you subscribe to this show, every time I publish an episode, here I am talking to you just like this, and you're still listening 15 minutes into this episode. And chances are, if you're listening to me now, I have no idea, as I'm recording this 500th episode, how long this episode is going to be. But my guess is that if you're listening to me now, you will still be listening to me at the end of this episode. And also if you listen to me all the way through to the end of this episode, my guess is, if I decide to consistently keep my commitment to showing up and releasing a new episode every Friday at 12:01am next week, when the new episode is delivered, you'll be listening to my voice again. And through all of this time, if I share with you how I process what's going on in my world, the things that I'm discerning, the things that I'm, how I respond to the situations of what everyone is saying out there. If you genuinely experience how much I care about communicating your voice, your message, your experience, your expertise, your thought leadership to the world through an audio podcast. When you hear how I frame podcasting, the tool, the way to perceive the numbers and all of the other stuff, when you hear, it's like, wow, I really resonate with that. I'll give you a perfect example. I was talking to somebody about download numbers not too long ago and I said, you know, if I were to produce my podcast and there were only Three downloads per episode. And if it were the right three people who I'm meant to speak to, if they were my ideal client avatar, or exactly the type of person I'm looking to reach with my show, if they were the only three, I'd be thrilled to show up every week for that audience. You know, there was a time where my friend and mentor Michael Hyatt listen to podcast Answerman every single week. And this is back in the day when my episodes were about an hour to an hour and a half and he never missed an episode and listened every single week. And I heard him as a guest on Eric Fisher's podcast and he said this. What are some of the go to podcasts that you can suggest for listeners out there?
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B
Well, let me just look at my list here. I'm going to pull up. I use Downcast as the app on my iPhone. I can tell you that I listen to Cliffs every week. And I've told Cliff this on the phone before, but the reason I like his is not as much for the podcast information, which is terrific, but I just find him so inspirational.
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A
And you're referring to Podcast Answer man, right?
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B
Podcast Answer man, okay. I just, I love that.
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A
And if that were the only time I heard it, I'm like, oh my gosh, that's amazing. But then I have an opportunity for Michael to come on my own show. And we were having a conversation here in the podcast Answerman, and he said this.
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B
Well, I've told you before, this is why I listen to your podcast. It's not because I need more technical information on podcasting. I just listen to you because I like the way that you think about life, how you approach the problems you're trying to solve, and just your voice so you could be talking about anything and I'd be interested.
- [19:42]
A
Now the reason why I share those clips from Michael Hyatt is because Michael Hyatt and Dan Miller are two of the most influential and impactful people in my life when it comes to my own business journey. Now they're right up there with a handful of other wonderful people. But between those two individuals, Dan Miller and Michael Hyatt, which, by the way, Michael Hyatt was introduced to me by Dan Miller. But between these two individuals, I was introduced to tens of thousands of new clients over the course of more than a decade, absolutely transforming my life. Michael Hyatt ended up writing a book called how to Get Noticed in a Noisy World. And it became a New York Times best selling book. And then he invited me, by the way, Because I talked about my desire to become a professional paid keynote speaker. He heard me state that as one of my goals in Podcast Answerman. And when he hosted his very first Platform conference, he invited me to speak at that event and every subsequent event that he hosted for Platform from that point forward. It is mind blowing how much one person, and by the way, Michael Hyatt's not the only one, Dan Miller, I miss him dearly. He passed a few years ago. Also listened to my podcast every single week. And what I will tell you is that there had been millions of dollars in revenue that came into my business from two listeners to my show. You see, podcasting is a trust engine because it gives people access to who you are as a human, how you think, how you process. It gives people the opportunity to get a glimpse into the countless hours of experience that you've poured into your craft. It becomes evident with every word you speak, the level of expertise that you carry in your communication about your subject matter. But most importantly, if you can pull it off, if you can be authentic and real and transparent and genuine in a way that resonates with your audience, there is no other platform out there that is going to give people the ability to let your voice speak directly into their ear canals in a very intimate way on a consistent, ongoing basis like a podcast can offer. So I really don't have any skin in the game on whether or not the podcasting industry is growing or if it's shrinking. I know that my audience numbers post pandemic are nowhere near what they were pre pandemic, but what I do know is that you are hearing my voice right now. And if you were the only one hearing my voice, it would be worth it. I also know that this week I had a conversation with somebody who I recently made a proposal for a full one year coaching arrangement. And in our conversation he's like, cliff, I have been really thinking about what you said last week in your episode when you said, and he went on and on, and he said word for word what I said. And I'm like, wow. Sometimes I'm still amazed that so many people are out there. They're listening, and not just listening, but they're pondering what I've said. They're not only pondering, they're integrating what I'm saying. They're being influenced by what I've said. And that's powerful. And I'll never take that for granted. And the great news is, if I were to create a podcast and it had zero downloads per episode, I'D still produce it. You might be thinking, okay, why? Well, first of all, there's something valuable for me personally as an audible processor, an audio processor. I learn a lot by sharing my experience, by speaking out loud sometimes. I often learn what I think about things when I actually talk about what I'm thinking about. But not only that. The reality is that this particular episode will be listened to for the first time by somebody who is listening to this in 2027. I'm recording this on Thursday, June 4, 2026. There's going to be somebody who's listening to this episode in 2032. There may be people who listen to this episode after I'm gone. I have no idea. But what I do know is that for as long as I live, the archives of this show will continue to be there. And whether I ever make any decision to go out and try to market this thing, I do know that there are tools that are coming out and tools that already exist with AI and things like that that can instantly go in and look at all all of the archives of the things that I said and can pull all of that together and find ways to repackage and redo things with this and maybe market and share clips of audios linking back to the full length episodes in a way that currently is not possible. And to know that there are 500 episodes as of this episode for that to be done to means that there's a substantial body of work that I can rely on. So my question for you is, are you thinking about Podcast as your content creation engine that's going to help you grow your audience? There's nothing wrong with that, but can I invite you to consider creating your next episode with one ideal person in mind? And can I convince you that it might be worth it, that if that was the only person who listened to the episode you create next, it might have been worth it? You never know who's going to put you in in front of an audience of hundreds of thousands of people. You never know who is in your audience listening that is going to connect you to somebody who's going to connect you to somebody who is going to connect you to somebody who has an audience of hundreds of thousands of people to put you in front of. Don't get caught up in the numbers. Don't get caught up in the arguments for discoverability and algorithms. Don't concern yourself with how many more people you could get if you just went ahead and bit the bullet and bought all of the video gear and hired entire production team to Film and edit and share and clip and all the stuff. Put your voice out into the world. Audio podcasts still have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people who know what they are. And if you are on stages, you write books, you post on social media, you got email newsletters, you got an infinite number of ways. People used to ask me, cliff, how do you grow your audience? And I said, one conversation at a time. I used to have a slide where I'd show a picture of a selfie with me and a guy sitting in first class right next to me on an airplane. I said, here's my latest subscriber. I sat down on the plane and he says, work or travel? I said, well, work or pleasure? That's what it was. And I said, well, it depends. It's hard for me to distinguish between the two. He goes, me too. And we got to chatting. He told me a little bit about his world. I told him a little bit about my world. He goes, what's a podcast? Now, this is back before podcasting was a big thing. He's like, what's a podcast? I said, well, it's this, this, this, this goes, huh? I said, well, what kind of phone do you have? He says, I've got an Android phone. I said, hey, do you have the Google Play Store? Yeah. So when we land and you got a connection again, this is before we had all the access to Internet, like on the planes. He's like, I said, when you get land, I will help you install an app and show you how you can subscribe to my show. And sure enough, when we landed, before we disembarked from the plane, I downloaded an app for him and he subscribed to my podcast and that became my new listener. And you know what? I'm totally fine with adding one new listener each week or three new listeners a month. It is not about audience growth. It's about building trust with those who have already found you. That's why I'm still here producing this podcast, 500 episodes in, and I thank you for listening all the way to the end. Hey, if you are out there and this message resonated with you, if there's anything that I've said in the last several episodes that have resonated with you and you've not emailed me in a while to let me know that you're out there, I'd love to hear from you. Tell me what's going on in your world. What are you most excited about? My email address is still the same. Cliff at Cliffreavenscraft Com. Until next time, I encourage you to take everything you do to the next level podcast and some man.