Rush Fees - OR maybe have clients send flowers instead?

Summary

Podcast Editors Mastermind
Episode: Rush Fees – OR maybe have clients send flowers instead?
Hosts: Steve Stewart, Mark Deal
Guests: Angelina Guarola, Charles Commons
Date: February 11, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode explores the nuanced topic of "rush fees" and "late fees" for podcast editors. The panel—hosts Steve Stewart and Mark Deal, joined by podcast professionals Angelina Guarola and Charles Commons—delve into the pros and cons, industry best practices, communication strategies, and the delicate balance required to enforce these fees without harming client relationships. Along the way, they share their own business philosophies, humorous anecdotes, and offer actionable tips for podcast editors and service providers aiming to maintain professional standards and healthy working relationships.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

Differentiating Late Fees & Rush Fees

[02:38–04:42]

• Angelina prefers using “rush fee” over “late fee”, finding it more specific and less punitive for clients. It frames extra charges as compensation for compressed timelines, not a punishment:
  • “I usually only use the term rush fee because it is a little bit more specific to how it actually affects our workflow.” (C, 03:31)
• Charles notes that in the UK, “late fee” is generally associated with late invoice payments, not late file delivery—a cultural/legal nuance.
  • “In the UK we would sort of say a late fee is for a late payment of an invoice.” (D, 03:56)
• Mark stresses the importance of not making fees sound punitive in contracts so they can be upheld legally, and justifies them as compensation for administrative burden.
  • “If in the contract, you point like, hey, I’m charging this because of all the extra administratia... That’s just one personal piece of experience.” (B, 05:12)

Communicating and Enforcing Fees Without Alienating Clients

[06:35–10:11]

• Steve’s Approach: Offers the client a lighthearted “choice” between paying a rush fee or sending flowers as an apology—a strategy that adds humor and softens resistance.
  • “Makes people giggle like you guys just did. I found it really works well.” (A, 07:24)
• Charles and Angelina emphasize early and frequent mention of policies—in proposals, contracts, onboarding calls, client dashboards, and Slack—to minimize surprises and contentious conversations.
  • “There’s like five different touch points where they see the same information over and over.” (C, 11:15)
• Mark does not mention rush/late fees in proposals to ease clients in, but Charles does as a “conversation starter” and transparency tool:
  • “I use proposals as a way of... re-affirm what it is that I'm offering and also to invite them to ask any additional questions..." (D, 14:20)

Sensible Flexibility and Relationship Management

[15:52–20:56]

• Angelina gives upfront options: pay the rush fee and get the episode on time, skip a release, or release on a different day—empowering clients to choose their preferred consequence.
  • “Those are usually the three options that they get. And so they choose in advance what they would like the consequence to be if and when that happens.” (C, 17:38)
• Charles keeps interactions personal, even when considering automated tools like submission forms, as he values the relational aspect.
  • “I might lose from that would be the connection, like that relationship… I like that aspect.” (D, 20:00)
• Both agree that personal touches (voice notes, follow-ups) can keep relationships warm even with more formal systems in place.
  • “Sending a voicemail or even a short video is a really nice touch. It's great customer service. They know that not only do they literally see you, but they feel like they've been seen too.” (A, 21:34)

Guardrails on Enforcement & Avoiding Resentment

[23:21–27:53]

• None of the panelists want to profit off rush/late fees. They're positioned as boundaries, not revenue streams.
  • “I don't know if I'd feel comfortable wanting to make money off of rush and late fees… what you want is that really good relationship.” (D, 23:21)
• One or two “forgivenesses” might be extended for first offenses, but repeated abuse triggers a re-negotiation of terms.
  • “I would personally always on the first time, I'd make them aware…I'm not going to, on this occasion, consider this your little warning, your little telling off. Don't do it again.” (D, 24:55)
• Consistency is key; going back on terms invites resentment, erodes professionalism, and makes enforcement harder later.
  • “If you're constantly going back on what you said, that also creates some mistrust.” (C, 27:30)

The Pitfall: Do Rush Fees Encourage More Rushes?

[27:53–31:20]

• Steve describes that when he first implemented a rush fee, clients began submitting late more frequently, seeing the option as a license. Explicit language in contracts is crucial.
  • “It opened that door to the possibility. So that's something we've got to think about.” (A, 27:53)
• Both Steve and Charles revised their contracts to clarify that offering a rush fee does not guarantee automatic fast turnaround, but is contingent on availability.
  • “This doesn't say that I will turn it around... it gives me the ability to.” (A, 30:35)

Fee Calculations: Flat Rates vs. Percentage-Based

[35:23–38:29]

• The group discusses whether to use percentage-based or flat-rate rush fees, prompted by a listener question.
• Charles gives a real-world example: standard edit £150, rush edit (same day), £250—flat rate with intent to deter, not exploit.
  • “I pushed back straight away and I said, hey, yes, I can do this, no problem at all. You want it done this quick, it's gonna cost you 250.” (D, 36:27)
• Most guests use flat rates; none report making significant revenue off fees.

Preventing Late/Rush Requests & Building Better Client Habits

[39:56–45:41]

• Process transparency: clearly define “on-time” in contracts and in various communications.
• Different expectations and fees for retainer clients versus transaction-based clients.
• Reach out and check in if a client becomes repeatedly “rush-prone”—it may be a symptom of deeper issues in their business.
  • “Maybe reach out to them like, hey, you know, been happy to accommodate this and you know, you've done the rush fee. But I just want to check is everything okay?” (B, 41:22)
• Foster partnership, not a transactional mindset—being consistent, reliable, and clear with clients supports both professionalism and long-term satisfaction.
  • “The strength of that relationship is directly tied to the success of their show.” (C, 45:11)

Workflow & Automation Tips

[45:41–46:46]

• Remove resistance: Using shared file systems and being added as a team member on recording platforms (e.g., Riverside, Squadcast) reduces friction for client file submission and lead to more timely file delivery.
  • “That little piece of resistance I've always seen has helped get the files to me quicker.” (A, 45:41)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Humorous Boundaries:
  • “You can either pay this fee or you can send my way flowers with an apology letter saying, hey, sorry for making Steve work on the weekend.”
    — Steve Stewart [07:17]
• Enforcement Philosophy:
  • “I feel like the more that we can frame our language to be less punitive and more framing it as this is a natural consequence to the action that's happened.”
    — Angelina Guarola [05:51]
• On First Offenses:
  • “Consider this your little warning, your little telling off. Don't do it again.”
    — Charles Commons [24:55]
• Relational Service:
  • “Be friends with your clients, everyone. It's better that way. Life is good that way.”
    — Charles Commons [43:31]
• Agency & Boundaries:
  • “I am just as invested in the success of your show as you are. Maybe not just as, but I’m in your content all the time…I want them to be able to rely on my consistency."
    — Angelina Guarola [44:33]

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Important Timestamps

• [02:38] Definitions: Rush Fee vs. Late Fee
• [06:35] How to enforce fees without upsetting clients
• [11:15] Communicating policies early and often
• [17:38] Giving clients options for missed deadlines
• [23:21] Philosophy: Fees as boundary, not profit center
• [27:53] Do rush fee options backfire? Panel’s experience
• [30:35] Contract clause language on rush turnaround
• [36:27] Real-world rush fee calculation (Charles)
• [39:56] Preventing late/rush issues—structural advice
• [41:22] Checking in when patterns shift
• [45:41] Workflow hack: Share file access to ease on-time delivery

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Final Thoughts

The episode distills the art and science of implementing rush/late fees into a professional podcast editing business. The hosts and guests agree: clear communication, repeated up-front expectations, and relationship focus all trump inflexible or punitive approaches. Rush and late fees are necessary boundaries, but best used as part of healthy business practices—not as profit lines or booby traps. Ultimately, strong client-editor partnerships, transparency, and a dash of humor go much further in sustaining a satisfying, sustainable, and successful editing career.

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Find the guests:

• Charles Commons: vibrantsoundsmedia.com
• Angelina Guarola: (soon to be) wildwavepodcasting.com (redirect from old URL)

Further Resources:

• Podcast Editors Club (Facebook group)
• Podcast Editor Academy: podcasteditoracademy.com/newsletter

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the Podcast Editor Mastermind show. I am Steve. Baby, it's cold outside. Stuart. And with me, the real brains behind the podcast center, Academy Mark Deal.

[B]

Hey, everyone.

[A]

Today we're going to talk about late fees and rush fees. What are the pros and cons? How can we institute them without turning off the client? And at the end, we want to talk about what we can do as service providers to get the creators, the podcasters, to not have to deal with late fees and rush fees. Meaning how do we get them to turn their stuff in on time? With us today is Angelina Guarola. Angelina is a podcast producer, manager and strategist, offering full service launch and monthly management packages to creative businesses and brands. Isn't working with businesses fun, Angelina?

[C]

Oh, it very much is. It has its pros and cons every single day.

[A]

And she has a passion that I used to have, I still have, but I no longer have. Vinyl. How big is your vinyl collection?

[C]

Honestly, it's not as big as I'd want it to be because I'm still a renter, and having a big vinyl collection does not bode well for frequent moves.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, I know. Boy, they're heavy. They are so heavy.

[C]

I know you just went through your move a couple years back, so, you

[A]

know, sold them all, man. Heartbreaking, but it was good. All right. And also with us is Charles Commons. Charles is the host of the award winning It's All Cobblers to Me Podcast. I don't even know what that means. What is It's All Cobblers to me mean?

[D]

It's my football or soccer team, Steve. Northampton town known as the Cobblers because Northamptonshire is a shoemaking county in the uk. It's world famous for its shoes.

[A]

Okay. And you're also co run of the largest UK podcaster community, which I have heard of, although I'm not over there. Mic's Podcast Club. Tell me about that.

[D]

Yeah, Mike's Podcast Club. As we always try and get people to say, but people either go with Mick or they phonetically go with it. It doesn't matter. At the end of the day, it is a collective for independent podcasters. We come together once a month, mostly on Zoom, but we come together and literally talk through our problems. And if there's an issue that you faced with making your podcast that month, you. You can ask the community, and the community will then answer based on their own experiences. It's just a brilliant, brilliant way of getting podcasters to help each other to make better podcasts.

[A]

All right, but you're also in the post production side. And that's where we're going to be living in this conversation today. We're talking to our audience of podcast setters, producers, managers, directors, and we're talking today about late fees and rush fees.

[B]

Now, let's.

[A]

Is there a differentiation between what a late fee and a rush fee is? Do you guys have a late fee or rush fee? And how would you define that? Let's start with Angelina.

[C]

Yes and yes. Honestly, for my purposes, I only use the terminology rush fee because I find it to be more specific and understandable for clients because they understand that if they're paying a rush fee, it means that the window for us to complete the edit and whatever other deliverables go along with it is shorter and it's going to get out on time per their, like, regular release schedule. Late fee, I guess it could be the same thing. We can talk about that. But to me it sounds like it's more like a, like a punishment towards them and kind of that energy can create a different relationship between the two of you rather than a rush fee, which is like we're compensating the team accordingly to be able to get the work done on time for you. And I feel like that difference can kind of change the dynamic. So I usually only use the term rush fee because it's. It is a little bit more specific to how it actually affects our workflow and I find that they understand it a little bit more. There's obviously always some pushback and ways that we can communicate better, which I'm sure we'll get into, but that's how I see it.

[A]

Charles, do you have a different opinion on that or is that pretty much the same way you define it?

[D]

It's mostly the same, I think. I don't know how it works across the pond, but in the UK we would sort of say a late fee is for a late payment of an invoice. So we have it based at, you know, that there is a standardized sort of fee percentage worked out that the bank of England and that side of things sort of sets that you can obviously go and choose to use that or you can make up your own. But yeah, rush fee for me, exactly the same as what Angelina said. Late fee. Yeah. It's essentially me turning around and going, you've still not paid. If you don't hurry up, I'm going to add a bit more to that.

[A]

That's interesting. I think traditionally that is more what a late fee definition is. And I hadn't even thought about it.

[C]

That way, Honestly, I hadn't either. But now. Yeah, that makes sense. And that's a whole other thing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And, Mark, have you instituted rush fees or late fees with clients before?

[B]

I have both. And one thing that I'll point out, especially in certain contract laws, I'm not a lawyer. And even if I was, I'm not your lawyer, as a lot of the podcasting lawyers would say. But I have been to court once regarding late fees. It's key to, in the contract to make the late fees not seem punitive, essentially a punishment. But if you outline that, hey, it's a late fee, it's going to be more. And I'm charging a late fee because of all the administrative, all the extra steps I have to go to. For example, when we charge a late fee to go after, you know, late payment or collections, there's extra steps we got to do, right? We got to reference contracts, we got to send out emails and. And that sort of stuff. I found that late fees, if in the contract, you point like, hey, I'm charging this because of all the extra administratia that goes along with enforcing and collecting late fees based off the original fee. That's why we do this. That's just one personal piece of experience that, that I've witnessed firsthand that I would recommend people consider.

[C]

That's a really good way of putting it. I feel like the more that we can frame our language to be less punitive and more framing it as this is a natural consequence to the action that's happened. If you have not submitted by this time, if you haven't paid by this time, this is what happens. It's not necessarily. It is in my control the specifics of that as the business owner, but I am also beholden to the structure and workflow of my business. And so there is a natural consequence when this thing doesn't happen on time. And I think when you frame it to clients that way, they don't feel as resentful over it. They still can, but I think it's a more mature way of communicating that difference to them.

[A]

That's very well said. And I did pose this question or this topic to the Podcast Hours Club Facebook group to see if people had questions of their own they'd want us to address. And that's kind of where we're leading into is the one that Chad Pearsman asked, how do you actually enforce an additional fee or a rush fee or late fee without turning off the client? And I have a process in the contract that does this. I Give them two options. So it doesn't sound like this is the way. Even though I think you're better off saying, in the contract, this is what happens, this is the consequence of what happens. But I give them an option. The first option is this is the rush fee. It's this flat rate if we don't get this three business days before the episode's supposed to go out. And that's just audio, not video. But the second option is, okay, you have a choice. Then I'm giving them a choice to say, hey, if you're going to be late, you can either pay this fee or you can send my way flowers with an apology letter saying, hey, sorry for making Steve work on the weekend. That really softens the blow of the whole topic. Makes people giggle like you guys just did. Yeah, I found it really works well because it not only makes it sound like there's one way or the highway, but it also kind of puts a piece of humor on that. Charles, do you do anything in a contract or anything to say, here's what happens?

[D]

Yeah, it's in. I think it's in every proposal that I send. So even before we get to the contract state, basically I've just written one today actually, and it just has at the bottom that little reference to that. We're going to try and keep to these timetables, but I appreciate things can go wrong and happen. However, if there does come to a point where you need to give me something and then you only going to give me say 24 hours notice to get that back to you, then there will be an additional fee added on top in order for me to push away something else. And therefore it's about turning round and being able to say then hand on heart to the other clients, I'm really sorry. And you know, you might end up getting that, you know, that client might not like you the second one, and you might be really, really struggling at that point and turn around and just sort of go, oh yeah, I've maybe lost a bit of respect with a different client because of what's happened here and you don't want that. So I generally bring it up as early as possible. And then they always tend to turn around and just go, it's not going to happen, it's fine.

[B]

Yeah, you bring up a good point, Charles, and one that I've had to tell clients as well as the rush fee isn't so much to punish them and again, the same thing with regard to punishment as late fees, but really it's to respect all Clients, you know, if you've already committed to work and let's say you do have more than one client, hopefully we all do. You know, to respect all clients the same, I think is the right thing to do. And if one client doesn't really pick up on that, then, yeah, maybe they're not the right clients to work with. But that's one way of. I agree with you when I kind of phrase a lathe fee as like, hey, look, not a lefi. Excuse me, a rush fee. And it's like, I want to get this to you in the amount of time. And to Angela's point, my process is set up one way, but you're making me kind of throw some obstacles in there. So now I have to do some things for you and I may not be able to, or I have to do more things in order to accomplish everything for everybody on time. And because of that, there is this rush fee. So anyway, maybe that's a long winded way in saying I agree a rush fee is to respect of all clients, not at the expense of just one or a few, to honor just one or a few.

[C]

Very much so. And I think there's also another point in there, like how important it is to bring it up as early as possible, but also as often as possible. I've found that earlier in business when I did get more pushback from clients, it was because I was not being as forthcoming and as consistent about letting them know what the consequence is. And so now I have it. I don't have it in the proposal. I think I can put it in the proposal, but I have it in the contract, in the welcome packet in our kickoff call. I have it in their client dashboard and I have it in their Slack workspace. And so there's like five different touch points where they see the same information over and over. And so when something does happen and it does come up, they're not as blindsided by what the consequence is. And I think, yeah, one mistake that I made when I was earlier in business that maybe somebody who's listening might be making right now is that I have it in my contract. I stated it once in the onboarding, and it didn't become relevant until six months later. And then you have to have the hard conversation and you just kind of set yourself up to having more hard conversations, even though the policy was stated in there. If you don't restate it as often as you can, you have to make it so, like, stupid easy for them to know what the next step will be. If they do one thing or the other. So that, yeah, nobody's blindsided and you just have fewer of those uncomfortable conversations, they might still happen anyway. But that is something to kind of safeguard against it where you can say like, hey, you had all the information, I'm not at fault here as the service provider. And so you always have to kind of like take it all with a grain of salt, like, where are there times when I as a service provider can step up and make my systems better, which I'm sure we'll talk about soon. And when is it a case where like the client is just being incredibly difficult? And there's definitely both cases where that's true.

[B]

Yeah, you bring up a good point about managing those uncomfortable conversations and I'm sure we'll visit that shortly. But you did mention one thing that I didn't think about until you just mentioned it is late fees and rush fees mentioned in the proposal. Now, I do not mention late fees or rush fees in the proposal at all. I mean, obviously it's there in the contract, but not in the proposal. And I've got a reason for that. But before I get into that, does anybody else mention those in the actual proposal, not the contract, but the pre contract proposal?

[C]

No, but I just might.

[A]

I don't. I make the proposal as easy as possible.

[D]

I literally have it in there as a very small line so that literally they understand absolutely everything about what it's going to be to work with me. So I do a little fancy presentation for the proposal and there's only really one page within that PDF that is going to be massively important to that prospective client. The quote, how much is that going to cost you? And literally on the bottom of that, because that page is usually the one that's the most blank because it literally just has this is how much it is. And I might break it down depending on what it is that we're doing. But nine times out of 10 it might just be this is a per episode fee, or it might be a per season fee, or however we're working. And so literally having just a think is two sentences at the bottom, not in small print. It is in the same size font as everything else it's there. I use proposals as a way of, after we've had a discussion, whether that's over email or on a call, to then reaffirm what it is that I'm offering and also to invite them to ask any additional questions based on what we've talked about afterwards. So that's why I put it in there. So quite it. It ends up being a conversation starter where I am able to then say that this isn't personal and I put it in there. So you know about it straight away, right from the very beginning. I'm glad that you've asked the question about it. I want to have a good relationship with you, so we're going to respect each other if we work with each other. This is what I hope to expect from you guys, and this is what I will deliver to you in return. And it just starts that I think or I feel that relationship in a really positive way where I'm happy to take and answer their questions, no matter how awkward that conversation is. I think a bit like Angelina says, we don't like surprises at any point. So if you are six to eight months into a contract and it's the first time that we've actually had to come across this issue, then that can be a bit jarring. You imagine if it's you on the other side of it, you'd be like, oh, hang on a minute, what's this? And okay, it might be there in the T's and C's, it might be there way back when you first started, but we've had a brilliant relationship up until now.

[A]

What.

[D]

What gives? Why aren't you just giving me that little bit of an opportunity or something like that? So I. I like having that relationship so that therefore there's always a constant line of communication, which I'm sure we probably all like to have with our clients. Whereas maybe not too much like friends, but I like to be invited to things that happen because of the podcast that the client works on, you know.

[A]

Well, then let me ask you this, because, okay, so maybe the first time you let it go and the second time happens, but if you don't have that. Well, no, let me rephrase the question. Do you ask your client if they want to approve the rush fee each time it happens so that they're not surprised when they get the invoice?

[C]

I have started working it into my onboarding where I give them options. And so I'm still kind of trying to do this retroactively with the clients who didn't have this as a part of their onboarding. But every client who comes through, there is some type of questionnaire at the beginning where I can have all their information in one place. And now I've started asking, here are like, the three different potential consequences to this thing happening. So one of them is there's a rush fee and your episode goes out live at the time that it's supposed to. As long as it's still within this window. Like there's still a window where I'm like, it can't happen for me. I can't accommodate 24 hour turnarounds anymore. And so even if it was, you know, rush fee for 24 hours, that would still be outside of my window. I'm very, very clear about, like from this day to this day, this is your window. If you would like to pay a rush fee, it'll still go out on time. Or some people just don't want to pay any fees. They don't want to pay any fees and they would rather skip a week and just not have something go out and not pay a fee. To me, that doesn't make sense because they've already paid for the retainer in most cases and so they're still wasting that money. But I'm also very clear about that if it's a retainer relationship, you're paying for the time in my schedule, whether you use it or not. Like that's something that's also big that I have to communicate on the front end to kind of compliment the late fees. Making sense, the rush fees. And then the other option is like, I can release your episode in the same turnaround window just on a different day of the week, which is not ideal for me because then it changes around whose work I'm usually doing on what day. I don't love that either. So maybe I could come up with a better solution for that. But those are usually the three options that they get. And so they choose in advance what they would like the consequence to be if and when that happens.

[D]

I like that to start it off with a question of is your choices, which one do you want? And then it's up to the client. It empowers them to believe that, well, this is on us rather than on you, and therefore takes the pain away from us. As an editor, I like that. I don't know how well, I don't know how well it would work for me personally, I think because most of my purely editing clients will just send it through to me as and when that they've recorded and then say, I mean, most of them don't even ask, don't even give me a deadline in that initial email. I sometimes will email back and say, when do you need this by? Just in case, like, so if, for example, because we're coming towards the end of the month as we're recording now, I'm usually at My busiest at this sort of time because everybody wants either an episode to go out at the end of the month or the start of the new one. And so I have in the last couple of days been replying to my clients when they've sent work through saying, when do you need this back by? So that I can then start to prioritize what I'm going to do Now, I have had a couple that have said, could you get it back tomorrow? And I've kind of gone, do you really need it tomorrow? Come on now, let's be a little bit more sensible than this. And nine times out of 10, they're acting like my toddler does and just trying to push the boundaries and see how much they can get away with. So I tend to just sort of, again, have that relationship where I can be a bit jokey with them and, you know, be a bit like, are you sure you need it by then? Are you really, really that pressed for it? And they'll go, no, not really. Two days, three days, be fine.

[C]

Have you considered using, like, submission forms? That way they can either choose the date or you can write in something about what the turnaround time frame is. That way you're not just like replying over and over. It might help you standardize what your processes are because they might be pushing against you because maybe you haven't made that part super clear.

[D]

That's a good idea. I hadn't thought about doing that. The one thing that I would potentially think that I might lose from that would be the connection, like that relationship. All of my emails always start off with, and Steve's did for this recording, how are you? And a little bit of a chat sort of beforehand. I like that aspect of it. I think for me personally, while I completely see where a submission form works, I like at the moment where I'm at where I'm not massively over. I'm quite happy with the email side. But yeah, I mean, in fairness, most of the time my clients do say, hey, could you get this back to us next week? Is that okay? You know, in the initial email, it's just sometimes they will just send through the work and they'll just go, can you do this? And I'm like, yeah, next year. That's all right with you?

[C]

Yeah. I do have submission forms now for some types of clients. And then the retainers, they have a different process. It's kind of crazy, but I find that I can still maintain a good warm and personal relationship with them by like just shooting them message, like hey, got it. It's in my queue, excited to listen. And then I might send them a little like, voice note when I'm done, just like telling them what I thought of the episode. And it still keeps things very personable without also damaging my workflow because I have like automations that are set up with the submission form that will give me a due date on my calendar and that's really important for me or else I'll lose all the communication.

[A]

Yeah, take the voicemail or even a short video is a really nice touch. It's great customer service. They know that not only do they literally see you, but they feel like they've been seen too.

[C]

And I believe that transparency is also a really big part about client experience and customer service in general. Like what we were talking about earlier, putting the late fee terms in the proposal. I feel like some people could be scared that that might scare off potential clients, but in my head, my ideal clients respect transparency and they like knowing the information upfront. So that's a plus for me. I think I might add that to

[B]

my proposal as well as it frames the conversation. I don't necessarily put out there in the proposal, like, here's the late fees, here are the rush fees. But I do say, hey, here's your goal, here's what's in scope, and then here's out of scope. And out of scope will be things that one that I'd want to upsell but that they said that they do not want. So I'm like, all right, well, I'm going to put that as out of scope. So that way you see that I could do it, but you don't want it as well as in there. Any work done within less than certain timeframe. Because of course, when you have the discovery calls with clients, prospective clients, they're like, of course I'm going to give you all the files and things weeks in advance. We always plan out our stuff. We're never reactionary on everything because we're the best clients to work with. I'm like, great, that sounds awesome. I'm going to write the proposal that way. But out of scope is like anything. It's not within that timeframe. But I don't list out the exact fees and stuff. And maybe I should dial up the notch a little bit. But again, I don't make a lot of money off of rush fees. I mean, it's nice, it's a nice to have, but I don't make a lot of money off rush fees. Maybe, maybe my rush fees are Too severe.

[D]

I don't know if I'd feel comfortable wanting to make money off of rush and late fees because a significant portion. This is it. You sort of. What you want is that really good relationship. And therefore, if you're constantly. I think if I had, and this hasn't happened to me, but if I had a client that was constantly coming to me saying, we've just recorded, could you get this done for me now and then back to me in a couple of hours? That was constantly happening. I'd probably jump on a call with them and look to rehash the actual contract in the first place and say, well, look, you know, if you are going to need this, if this is the way that you're going to work, I can accommodate you on the most part. There are going to be times that I'm simply not going to be available within that short frame of time and that short notice. So, look, we're going to have to rework out your fee, your initial fee so that I can do it. And we're going to have to work out the actual, you know, turnaround time and put that in a contract so that both of us are aware again, it's just resetting the boundaries and, and saying that so it, it avoids you then ending up having, you know, that Rush fear. Like Steve said before, do you let them go on the first time and then how many times you let them get away with it before you do? I think I would personally always on the first time, I'd make them aware. I would normally charge you a rush fee or a late fee, depending on what we're talking about with it. I'm not going to, on this occasion, consider this your little warning, your little telling off. Don't do it again.

[A]

Otherwise you'll show me you're a team player.

[D]

Yeah.

[A]

You're part of the group there.

[B]

Definitely. Yeah. I wouldn't penalize somebody, whether we're two weeks into a contract or two years in the contract. The first time they hit across like a TNC thing. And if it's something that I can't accommodate, if I can't, I can't. Right. And I'm not going to be petty about it, but it's like, hey, like I'm going on vacation, you know, I've already got, you know, dinner plans with the family that arranged and what. Yeah, if I can, I can. But a lot of times you can, but you make it that. That teachable moment. But as you said, Charles, and again, at least in the US with contract law, when you do give them that kind of variance, off to the TNCs, if you don't go out and say, like, hey, this is a variance on what we mutually agreed on in our terms and conditions in this contract, but this one time we're going to do it. But going forward, keep in mind, section, whatever, whatever, this is what we agreed on. Because if you constantly do do something that is outside the contract, then a judge could say, like, well, you've got this contract, but you never enforce it because you always do this stuff. So obviously that clause means nothing. So when you do try to enforce it, you may hit pushback.

[C]

You know, that's something that's really complicated for me because my first couple of years in business when I was just like, I just call myself a freelancer, I was definitely people pleasing. And that's like one of my personal tendencies as a human is to like, like, avoid the conflict and just, okay, I can take the short end of the stick here and make the other person happy. And I ended up with a few clients that, you know, the relationship didn't feel good to me and I was constantly resentful. And so, like, there's always this balancing act. And I also feel like I could probably go into like a whole sociological analysis on like, how women specifically, especially in, like, the tech field, feel like they need to be accommodating of their clients, whether they're male or not. I'm trying to work through that within me because there are some clients who I have who are very, very communicative and, you know, appreciative and great to work with. And so I want to be respectful when life does happen. But at the same time, like, it's kind of like we said earlier, like, there is a consequence to something that happens. And if we're putting ourselves in the position to, you know, just take one for the team, that can breed resentment. And it also erodes like, your, your professionalism, your professionalism and your expectations as a service provider. And you can't continue to give good customer service and client experience if you're constantly going back on what you said. That also creates some mistrust. I'd say, like, you want, they, you want your clients to be able to trust that when something happens, the appropriate thing happens. After that, like, there has to be some consistency in your actions with them. Yeah, it's, it's always harder to change your behavior retroactively than it is to start fresh with a new client relationship.

[A]

That leads me to something I wanted to share, which is for the first five years of doing this full time, I. I did not have a rush fee, late fee, any kind of clause, or even charge people for it. And the reason was, and I did find this to be true when I opened that door, when I allowed people to pay a little extra and then be able to send me stuff late, I had people start sending me stuff late. It opened that door to the possibility. So that's something that we got to think about. Is there a way that you can kind of subvert that temptation? Oh, Steve can do it in 24 hours. He gives me the option of a rush fee. Have you guys experienced that yourselves? Charles is laughing.

[D]

I have, yeah. I did the retroactive thing with an existing client, and it was because. It wasn't even because they'd done anything. They hadn't started sending me stuff and asking for it to be done at really short notice. It was nothing like that. It was literally just the a case of I had onboarded a new client and I had made sure that all of my terms, conditions have been checked for the very first time by a legal professional. And they had said, make sure you put something in about, you know, this, what we're talking about. And so I did. They checked those. So the wording was absolutely fine. So I was just updating a few of my current clients with it, and that client literally replied to my updated contract saying, oh, this is great. So you can now start doing this within 24 hours. And I was like, that's not what it says. But I, being, you know, an overthinker as I am, I immediately started going, oh, no. Oh, shoot, what have I done? Oh, this is. This is dreadful. It turned out the client was almost taking the mick and having a bit of a laugh with me, as was our relationship, thankfully. But it, yeah, it opened me up to sort of just go, oh, hang on a minute. And I went back to the person that had checked over my T's and C's and everything and said to them, this is what happens with one person. Can you help me reword this to make sure that nobody believes that this is what's going to happen? And so, yeah, a couple of changes, couple of different words instead of what I'd written. And from there on, I was able to then point out and just go, no, that categorically is not what that says. That is a very much a. In a severe circumstance, this is what will happen and this is what it will mean to you.

[A]

Yeah, I revised that part of my contract. I added a little bit of a Clause or something saying, and the option of turning this around that quickly if, you know, if you send your files in late, does not. I should probably bring up my. The contract's available in the podcast Air Academy, so join the Academy to get templates for that. But in the contract, I had to rephrase. Something like this doesn't say that I will turn it around the amount of time it gives me the ability to. And I'll charge you a little bit more, and I do a flat rate, but if I can't do it, then you won't be charged late fee. So I'm pretty much giving myself an out. So if I can't deliver or decide not to deliver, then, you know, there's no harm, no file. Except that the episode doesn't come out on time. What their schedule was.

[D]

I think that's really important is the fact that just because it's there in your terms and conditions to say that you would charge a rush fee or a late fee, you don't have to do it. You could just push back and say no. And I've had to do that more times than I've ever actually charged a rush fee, where I have literally just had to say, I'm fully booked right now or I'm away, whatever, you know, the reason is. But I literally do not have capacity to do this work. So here, here's some options for you. I've got a great friend who is also an editor, will do a fantastic job for you. Let me pass it on to him. He'll invoice me or however it might work, and I'll invoice you, whatever it is, or can you wait until I'm back? Generally speaking, when you actually push back and you say, do you really need it now? In my experience, the clients don't. They think they do. And there's that. There's that thing of how your emergency is not my problem. And so therefore, by making that very clear to them. And I've had that where, you know, I've had somebody that was, you know, clearly had somebody higher up than them saying, you're missing a deadline. So they tried to push that onto me. And I had to say, well, I'm not even at my. I don't even have my laptop. I cannot do it physically for some reason that wasn't being heard. And I eventually had to sort of just say to him and go, look, dude, go back to your manager and tell him that it's not possible. Tell him when I can do it, and then see what Their response is, before you come back to me, because I guarantee it's not anywhere near as bad as what you're thinking right now. And lo and behold, he came back to me a little bit sheepishly. Could you do it by the end of the week, please? I was like, yeah, sure, Absolutely. Not a problem.

[C]

Yeah. The way that I try and prevent this is that a rush fee does not mean that up until the very end of the very last hours you can submit this and pay that rush fee. Like for me there's another window. So most of my clients are on like four business day turnaround, the retainer ones per episode clients are a little bit longer just because I'm not like carving out space for them every single week. And so for a retainer client, if they were to submit three or two days before deadline, I would still accept that with a rush fee, but if it's less than two days, I won't accept it. So for me, I have to be clear about what that window is like. It's not just unlimited. You can submit your rushed episode three hours before you need it back and it's going to be fine because it's not. There's simply the capacity doesn't exist. And I also try to be very proactive about letting my clients know when I'm going to be out of office weeks in advance if possible, day before I have the out of office on. And I'm not even out of office very often to begin with. But yeah, I think it's just the whole conversation about being as proactive with your communication as possible, being repetitive with your communication and also giving them examples. In my welcome packet, I literally have examples now. For example, we need everything to be done and submitted by Thursday, 5pm so that would mean by this time is when you can submit without a fee, by this time is when you could submit with a fee. And then I also have that question in my questionnaire now with onboarding to like ask them what their preference is, if they would like the episode released late, if they want to Skip a week, etc. So yeah, I don't. But I've also never had a client who's been like, okay, now I can just pay late fees. Like my, my clients are very fee averse. Yeah. So I've never had that situation. That would be funny to me if

[A]

you had somebody who needed a turnaround faster than normal. Do you charge a percentage or do you do a rush fee or I'm sorry, a higher price rush fee. Do you do any kind of variables there, because this is actually a question that Alejandro Ramirez put into the Facebook group. He's in favor of a rush fee being a fixed percentage, but what is a fair percentage? So he's basing the idea on a percentage. But is that time based? Is that based on the total amount of what you would normally charge? Do you guys do anything like that or is it flat rate only for you guys?

[D]

I increase the price, obviously, but I go with it. I think the best way for me to explain this is as an example with a real life client that I did have this happen. I normally was charging them £150 for their edit. They submitted it to me asking me to do it that day. Now I could do it that day. It wasn't actually a problem. It turned out that I'd come into my office and I'd gone, right, what am I going to work on? And I sort of went, oh, twiddle my thumbs a bit, read a book, I don't know what, what's going to do? And then all of a sudden this email came in and part of me actually went, oh, goody work. But because I didn't want it to, you know, end up being a thing that they continually started to do, I pushed back straight away and I said, hey, yes, I can do this, no problem at all. You want it done this quick, it's gonna cost you 250. I did that with the sole intention of pushing back and saying, you don't really need it doing this quick, do you? And this guy went, actually, yes, I do, yes, no problem, I will pay that. Not a problem. He clarified. He actually went, that's just on this occasion, right? That's not what the price is going to be from now on. And I was like, it will be that price if you keep doing this, yes, but not, yeah, if you get it in normally. And he went, yeah, yeah, I promise, I promise. And I went, yeah, no problem. And so he paid it. So, yeah, I, I added an extra hundred on top and got it back to him within three hours, nice and easily. Really. I mean, the one thing that, and I've done this before where I have pushed back and they have said, oh no, oh no, I'm not not paying that extra. And I say, well, no problem. Well, I can get it back to you within two or three days, not a problem. And they go, oh, all right then, yeah, no problem at all, that's fine. And I get it back to them. Even, like, I have this thing where I, my gratification comes from that email. When you've. When you've sent the edit back, the email comes back and it goes, thanks so much. You did that so quick. Thank you. That was brilliant. That's. I live for that. Sometimes I have to stop myself from doing it too early. When I've had, you know, when I've given pushback and said I was going to charge you extra, they say, no, no, no, just do it in a couple of. I might still get the work done and then just sort of schedule it in my to do list. Send that to the client in two days. It's hard.

[C]

Schedule send is a good feature.

[D]

It is. It is a great feature when it works.

[A]

I've been in the podcast industry for a long time. Podcasting since 2010, podcast editing professionally since 2016. And in that time, I've learned a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff. And I've also learned you can never learn enough. Everything keeps changing. Look at what AI and video is doing in the past couple years. The Podcast Editor Academy has a goal of helping you to migrate through all of these changes, as well as draw on my over 10 years of professional podcast editing experience and my more than 30 years of running small businesses. Wait, is that right? 30 years? No, wait, it's 35 years. More than 35 years of running small businesses. Get access to me and other resources in the Podcast Editor Academy. Register now for a $2.49 quarterly membership. Every week I send out a weekly challenge. Get some of that windshield University Zig Ziggler always talked about with our private podcast you can take on the road with you and of course, our monthly office hours where you can get together with other professionals in this industry where the real learning takes place. Join now podcasteditoracademy.com that's podcasteditoracademy.com. I wanted to pose this question to you all. I don't know how much impact we actually have, but I'll start with Mark. Do you have any suggestions on what we can do to prevent our clients from sending in files late and asking for rush jobs?

[B]

Well, I think a lot of the elements that we've talked about already on this episode one is in your contract state. What is a timely delivery of files and what would be considered a rush job and what is the impact of that rush job? In this case, it would be a fee. I think a number of people mentioned maybe charge different for folks that are retainer versus people that are transaction based. Also, is it something that you always charge? For example, maybe you don't have the capacity to implement a rush job. Maybe you are traveling, going on vacation, or perhaps going to a conference, as many of us often are, and you've communicated out to your clients like, hey, I will be unavailable. Steve, I know you do this. I will be unavailable during this time. That way they see that they cannot, you know, do the rush job as well as maybe, you know, Charles, you really kind of inspired this question that I'm now going to start asking. When we get more than a couple of rest jobs in a row, maybe we reach out and ask the client, hey, is everything okay? Are you, are things running well in your business? Because it's turned out that that was a symptom I found of something that was drastically negative happening within their business cycle. But I did not know that. And it was reflected based off of these rushed kind of jobs and false urgency type thing because they had bigger issues going on. So maybe that's another thing. If you get a couple of rush jobs close together or more than you'd see, maybe reach out to them like, hey, you know, been happy to accommodate this and you know, you've done the rush fee. But I just want to check is everything okay? You know, because I want to be this economical and efficient for you and maybe you find out things aren't okay or copacetic over there.

[D]

Yeah, and it gives that like that relationship again. That's what it comes back to for me constantly is I enjoy working with my clients. I enjoy finding out little bit extras about them. You know, that isn't about work necessarily. You know, when we jumped on, you know, to start this recording earlier, you asking about the weather, I know you were doing it to get me to talk and make sure the micros aren't working too hot and everything. But you know, I did that with one of my clients just this weekend. I'd been at a wedding and I joked about the fact that because I stayed over in a hotel, I was able to have the heating on and not worry about how much that was going to cost me because I paid for a hotel. It was, it was fine. Yet now I'm at home, the heating's not coming until October and I'm not paying any more money towards it. That relationship is so important for me that, yeah, I do keep, you know, on top of what I'm doing. I make sure that I let my clients know I'm going away on holiday at the end of the month. This is when I go, this is when I'll be back. If you've got anything for Me, either that you need doing just before that or over that period or for when I come back. And I make that usually in a little bold bit of font, because obviously if you want it on the Monday that I'm back, it's gonna need to be done before I've gone away, folks. So for me, it's just about consistently communicating with my clients and yeah, just, just enjoying it. I. I would hate to resent anyone because they were constantly giving me, you know, work late or wanting it done in a less than timely fashion. And I, I just. Be friends with your clients, everyone. It's better that way. Life is good that way.

[C]

Very much agree with that part of this entire conversation of like, building a good relationship with your clients. For me, I'm trying to move away from more of that transactional relationship where you pay me, I do something for you, you pay me again, I do something for you. I want to foster the type of relationship with my clients where we're in partnership with each other, and if one of us isn't doing our job, the podcast is the thing that suffers. And so when I have a client who might not be, like, fulfilling their end of the bargain, so to speak, they're still paying me a lot of money. And so I still want to show up and ask them what's going on and reiterate that this is a partnership, this is a team effort. And I am just as invested in the success of your show as you are. Maybe not just as, but I'm in your content all the time. I've spent so many hours editing your work, doing other stuff for you, like developing strategy with you. And so it's really important to me as well. Like on a personal level, like, I'm very fulfilled by my work. And so, you know, I may be very over communicative about what the boundaries are and what the consequences are. Not because I want to come across as rigid, but I want to come across as consistent. And I want them to be able to rely on my consistency like I want that. I want them to be able to rely on my services as well as what happens when XYZ circumstance comes up. All of that together does end up creating a relationship with your clients that is mutually beneficial and mutually trustworthy. And if you've done all that and you're still getting pushback and it's still not feeling right, that just might be a clue that it's not the best client relationship for you. And we've all had those situations where we've had to let people Go. Or we had to just invest less of ourselves in the strength of that relationship. Like, we're all learning and it's only like one step on the road to getting a roster full of clients who are dream clients. Like, that's our ultimate goal here. And those are always the clients that end up being the most successful. Like, the strength of that relationship is directly tied to the success of their show.

[A]

I could also mimic the relationship part and communication part, but a couple of tangible, or maybe that's not the right word, ways that I help my clients to be on time. Obviously the email is saying, hey, you know, we're getting close to deadline here, but setting up that shared file system, or better yet, now that a lot of clients are using systems like Riverside Squadcast saying, hey, why don't you just add me as a team member or give me the link to the recording so you don't have to download anything that saves you the time. I can get right into it, pull it down when I'm ready. That, that little piece of resistance I've always seen has helped get the files to me quicker. I don't know. That is. But, you know, sending an email is a lot faster than downloading files to their computer and then having to upload it to somewhere else. So that's. That's what I'll leave us here with. So I want to thank our panelists. Let's start with Charles. Charles Commons. You were the non employee of the week. What the heck is a Non Employee of the Week?

[D]

Well, you know, when. When you're in employment, then there might be an award every. Every week or so for somebody that's done really well. I'm in a fantastic community called Being Freelance, which you can be in wherever in the world. We've got lots of great Americans, Canadians, Australians involved in it. It's run by a chap called Steve Folland, who also runs the Being Freelance podcast. And he has done the Non Employee of the Week awards every week, more or less. Four, five, six, seven years, something like that now. And I think I was, I want to say week 38, I think I was awarded that. And yeah, it's just a lovely extra that Steve does in the community. And you get a wonderful mug, a ceramic trophy. I think it is on the shelf behind me.

[A]

I love that. That's funny.

[D]

Here it is for the video viewers. And then also, as is in my email signature, which is where you saw it. Steve, you are on a website as well, on a hall of fame, if you will. So, yeah, check out being freelance. It's a great podcast for anyone that's freelance. But yeah, the community is also there if you would like to join another one.

[A]

And of course you can find [e-mail] as well. And I'll have links to that in the show notes. Angelina, thanks for being here with us today. When's your next DJ gig?

[C]

My next DJ gig is on October 3rd, 10 days away.

[A]

Okay. Actually we're going to release this in December, so it happened months ago. I should probably not ask that type of a time based question. Interesting. This might not be an edit point. I'm going to leave that in.

[B]

It was great, everyone. You totally missed it.

[C]

I will say when this show does come out, I probably will have rebranded and so the URL in the show notes is gonna redirect you if you click on it.

[A]

Oh, so the intentional edit is not gonna be where your home base is. It's gonna be something else someday.

[C]

We are changing to Wildwave Podcasting.

[A]

Wild Way Podcasting. Great. I'll make sure to have an updated show notes link for Angelina so you can find her there as well. Thank you all for joining us on the Podcast Podcast Editor Mastermind show, Podcast editing news, Podcast editing events and Podcast editing tips. You can get all this information free by subscribing to the Podcast Editor Industry newsletter. Sign [e-mail] newsletter. That's podcasteditoracademy.com Newsletter.