← Podcast Editors Mastermind
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- [00:01]
A
Hello and welcome. I am Steve. It's a new dawn, It's a new day. It's a new episode of the podcast at our Mastermind show. And I'm feeling good, Stuart. And with me today, I have two new guests to the show. I want to welcome Pat Fenner. Pat Fenner is a podcast production services specialist. She's also a Podcast Center Academy member. She helps small business owners and creatives spread their message and grow their business through podcasting. Welcome, Pat.
- [00:24]
B
Well, thank you. It's good to be here.
- [00:26]
A
I'm so glad to have you here.
- [00:27]
B
Oh, I'm glad to be here, Steve.
- [00:28]
A
We also have a new guest to the show today, Mr. Mark AI Deal. Mark, why don't you introduce yourself to the audience?
- [00:35]
C
Hey, everyone, I'm Mark Deal. I am the co founder of Podcast Editor Academy. And Steve, this is actually not my first time being a guest on this show. I was a guest on long, long ago, I think a couple times before you took over.
- [00:49]
A
That's right before we got to start hosting the show, when the original yetis came and said, hey, we might let you guys have the show. And we're like, absolutely, we'd love it. We'd love it.
- [00:59]
C
So now I get to feel some of that previous yeti love being INV back on the show. So yay me.
- [01:05]
A
What we're going to talk about today is something that you guys did rather strategically and skillfully, I might add, to be able to prove your value to the industry. You guys actually started a podcast together. Habitat Heart Hammer and Home. It's a podcast about what? Why don't you describe it and then tell us how you came up with the idea and why you started it.
- [01:28]
B
Yeah, well, I really got to know Mark. Last podfest, like 25, we started talking about just what do we do and what projects we're interested in. And he mentioned he would like to do something like this to do a documentary style show. And I thought, wow, that would be really great. I listened to a lot of documentaries and stuff. I like documentaries. He said this would be a great proof of concept to sell to a business. And we decided to start out by doing it for a nonprofit. It's kind of giving back kind of thing. And, well, initially there was a nonprofit that I knew of that was in a networking group that I'm a member of, and it was a school. And we started talking to them and it looked like down the road they were going to have to close the school. So Mark and I were like, oh, okay, so now how are we going to pivot. And he mentioned Habitat because he's very involved in Habitat locally. Well, that to me was like a sign from the heavens because I was involved in Habitat. Habitat is what brought me to Georgia.
- [02:28]
A
And this is Habitat for Humanity, where you build structures and buildings for people.
- [02:31]
B
Yes, I'm sorry, Habitat for Humanity. And if you do Habitat, then you just start calling it Habitat. But yes, it's that Habitat for Humanity. I worked with them, I volunteered with them, I went overseas, my family went overseas with them 30 years ago, 35 years ago, and kind of lost track as time goes on. And when Mark said Habitat, I was like, yes, let's do it. I mean, I didn't even have to think about it. And then we realized that both of us are very into story and the stories behind businesses, people's stories, how storytelling is what grabs us, what we hook on as human beings. And decided to do a story about the affiliate that he's involved with locally, the East Cobb affiliate.
- [03:17]
A
You two are located near each other. So you could actually get together and do this in person, right?
- [03:21]
B
We could.
- [03:22]
A
To work on some of this together.
- [03:23]
B
I think we met once or twice initially in person, but, you know, you still have to drive and everything. So we used the miracle of zoom and all those for the most part.
- [03:34]
C
Definitely. Because Atlanta is a big area. Atlanta is an hour away from Atlanta at any given time.
- [03:40]
B
That's so true.
- [03:42]
C
Especially considering strategic times of day, but, yeah, relatively close.
- [03:45]
B
Yeah.
- [03:46]
A
And this is a serialized documentary style podcast. It's not your typical interview people and ask them questions, but you actually are structuring the narrative here, which is a lot more difficult than I assume. This is just an audio only podcast. You didn't quite take the leap to try and create a video out of it.
- [04:03]
C
That's right, Steve. It started with the concept. We wanted to do a serialized documentary style podcast. One where each episode leads into the next, where each episode is a part of the whole story, where after you finish one episode, you just really gotta go into the next. It has a beginning, a middle and an end. And all that highly level concept was come up with, originally designed. And then we were trying to find a good partner for it. And as Pat mentioned, she had won the school idea. And when that didn't work out, then we pivoted to Habitat for Humanity. And as Pat mentioned, she has lots of background in that and I have lots of involvement in recent years with Habitat for Humanity. So it was a pretty low putt. I already knew a lot of the key stakeholders and through the show, got to meet a lot of other stakeholders up the, the Habitat for Humanity chain of command, as it were. So that was also another good benefit.
- [05:01]
B
Yeah.
- [05:03]
A
And this is a service that you believe you guys can provide as something in your company, in your businesses, as a producer, a director type thing.
- [05:13]
C
Yeah, and not just that. I think it's a service that any editor, director, producer could add to their services. And also, I'm sure we'll get to that in the show. There's elements of it that you can use for your existing episodic content and your existing episodic clients. And I think there's a lot of good reasons why you could turn this SaaS, what we call storytelling as a service, not software as a service. This SaaS as storytelling as a service, as part of your professional podcast services.
- [05:43]
A
Well, that's what I want to know more about. How does this help a podcast editor, producer, director? If you're doing a podcast, you're a podcaster or you're sitting at that hat on, but then if you take the hat off and you go into the production side, it's a different hat, different skill sets, different services, obviously. How does that impact our audience here? Mark?
- [06:00]
C
Yeah, and I'm glad you directed that to me because I've thought a lot about this. And in fact, it was that strategic thinking that got me into wanting to actually do this. Doing a serialized documentary is not easy. In fact, it turned out to be even harder than we thought, even leveraging a lot of AI tools. That being said, I thought it was a higher level of service and in some ways there's things that you couldn't realistically offer. Steve, at the top of the show, you asked, is this audio only? Is there any video format? Yeah, yeah, this is audio only. Much like a lot of the other serialized documentary dramas. Back in the day of serial, when that became popular than a lot of other ones, you had. A lot of documentary style filmmakers flocked to podcasting because the audio format made the production easier, but they still produce really good stories. And that's what we wanted to do with this storytelling as a service, is come up with an audio only serialized drama style show. And because of that, even if a podcast editor is offering episodic style services, including video, I think this is something that you can add or offer at a much higher price point. And even if clients choose not to do the audio only, scripted style outline format, storyboarded, 6, 8, 10, 12 episode type serialized story arc, then I think it'll still be a good price anchor for their current offerings. And there's some skills with this storytelling as a service that I think you can incorporate in your episodic style content production.
- [07:36]
B
Yeah. And I think because of the elements that we included in this, it just lends itself to a higher price point. But the product sounds very different. As a matter of fact, I was over at my daughter and son in law's one afternoon and I was editing and I had my earphones off because I was in the back room. I just wanted to hear how it felt in the room. And my son in law taps on the door and he leans in and he said, is that you? And I said, yeah. He said, oh my goodness, that sounds like npr because he listens to a lot, a lot of documentaries on npr. And so it has a very different sound than just a podcast.
- [08:11]
A
I'd be interested to find out, and I'll ask Pat first, what are some of the skills that you felt challenged by the things that you had to start doing that you had never done in the past to make this type of a storytelling as a service type of product?
- [08:25]
B
That's a really interesting question because I love the idea and the concept of telling a story, whether it's through the podcast or through the whole arc or whatever. But once we started interviewing people and then having to take these clips and make them part of the story and listen to, well, this section moves it along. But this is not good for this. There's a lot of analysis and thought that has to go through it. When Mark was doing, he did most of the initial interviews and then I would come back and edit them and pull things out. But even with the use of AI to keep things on point to keep the story moving forward, that really was a skill that I needed to develop over time.
- [09:05]
A
And how about you, Mark? And I know you use a lot of AI, so what new AI tools did you use?
- [09:09]
C
I did. And really it comes down to how much can I trust AI and not just how to. To groom it, as well as, you know, my own internal digital record keeping. So when AI goes off the rails, to pull it back onto the rails. But initially I thought this would be pretty easy. You know, just open up ChatGPT. I'm sure everyone here and everyone listening or watching is familiar with ChatGPT. I thought, hey, give it the big idea and let ChatGPT do all the work. And that's where it started. In fact, I created my own custom GPT to do a documentary style show that I wanted and loaded it up with all the Transcripts of interviews after it gave me ideas on some of the key stakeholder roles that I should interview for different pieces and I would go find the names, it would give me questions and everything. That being said, it did go off the rails. The one thing I found is don't rely too heavily on AI. And also using a custom GPT or one ChatGPT chat session does not work out well, especially with the amount of text and content that we're talking about, because it could only store about, I think, 100,000 words. It all boils it down to mathematical tokens. Right. And it will quickly cap out, especially if you're feeding it, hey, I did an hour interview here, an hour interview there. So I've learned it's best to make a product. So a project within ChatGPT and then underneath of it have different chats on, hey, here's how we're going to do episode one, here's how we're going to do episode two. Let's do another chat for the overall story arc and what have you. And of course I found out that you can't use a custom GPT within a GPT project. And again, I could go on more and more about things, but really it came down to I can't always trust the output of ChatGPT or any AI right now.
- [11:05]
A
Is that true? I mean, I don't think we found one that's that reliable.
- [11:07]
C
Oh, really? AI? Any AI ever? I honestly, I hope that everyone keeps a critical thinking mind when using AI, whether it's today, in 2026, whether it's a few years from now, in 2030. I hope that as humans, we can keep a little bit of our critical thinking skills so we can fact check and gut check the outputs of some of these AI models.
- [11:28]
B
Yeah. And to that point too, with AI, I mean, even when I was editing, each episode was its own story as well. And then that story fed into the bigger one. Well, one of the scripts that we had referred to a specific quote. Well, like the next page, it used the exact same quote and it didn't even realize it was doing that. So one of the lessons I learned from that is no matter what it spits out, read it, then read it again and then have someone else read it. Like, it's so easy. I didn't see it the first time I read through it. And then as I'm sitting here editing and reading my lines, I'm like, I just said this.
- [12:02]
C
Yeah. Later on we put up some guardrails once we knew that that's another way it can fall off the track. So we put up some guardrails and some self checks within GPT to make sure it doesn't do that. But yeah, there's lots of. Lots of little issues that crept up.
- [12:15]
B
Yep.
- [12:15]
A
So if we hand this over to the audience members here who are looking at ways to help their clients be that creative, be that person who can follow an outline, follow a storyline and be able to use it, but they're relying on the service providers like you and me to be able to help them, guide them, direct them. You're saying AI helped to congregate and to collect a lot of that, the ideas, maybe to streamline it a bit. What are the other benefits that you found from doing all that work that an editor can use or a producer can use?
- [12:50]
C
I'll go ahead and take that one. I think first and foremost, you sell the story, you sell the concept, and the story becomes what the stakeholders, or at least the person paying the bills is the story that they believe about themselves, whether it's true or not. You know, as podcast editors, we try to make people sound the best they possibly could. We try to make them sound as good and concise as they do in their head, even though once they turn onto the mic, it's a whole Umrah craziness. Right. Much like the flub I just did there. You know, that's part of our role as a podcast editor now. When you lead with a story, first you sell that ideal vision about themselves and what they do within the community. Perhaps the hero that they are or perhaps the guy that they are, because their own community is the hero in their journey. You can kind of see where I'm going with that as far as the storyboarding. So it's storytelling and selling the story as a service makes it real easy. Because then it's not so much they are against you or me or whomever is producing it, it's all about congregating around the story. So let's all make decisions around the story, not so much about nitpicking the producer. It also, I believe, will allow producers and editors to stand out in a very crowded field of other people that are just doing polished episodes now. That's the norm. You have to cut out amorals, you have to level, you have to make clear audio. That's no longer a differentiator. That's the standard. So in order to set yourself above, that's when you start bringing in storytelling, whether it's a serialized documentary story arc, like what we're talking about, or maybe some elements of that into an actual episodic style podcast that has many seasons, or maybe it runs on and on and on. You know, sell the story, sell the concept, focus on story, and then let the story be the guide for both you and your client.
- [14:44]
B
And I think that having that buy in early with this conversation with your client early also establishes you as a professional. So it kind of helps them to back off and realize, okay, this guy knows what he's talking about. This lady knows her stuff. And so you've sold the story. That gives you a lot of freedom, creative freedom. At the back end, they're not wondering what's going on. What are you doing? What are you cutting? What are you using? It's like, okay, this is the story. We both agreed on that. And then I'll let Mark. I'll let Pat craft it. So that's what's produced.
- [15:14]
A
And with these types of projects, you can see a definite end. The story ends at some point, and then you can come up with another idea or topic or story. I'm thinking about shows that I listen to, like Freakonomics, the Economics of Everyday Things. These guys come up with singular ideas for each episode. Sometimes they can make it into multiple episodes. You're talking about making this a whole, like, serial. The podcast was a couple seasons, obviously, but they were defined beginning and ends. How do you know when something needs to be cut out or needs to be extended or the shows, you know, come to an end? How do you know that?
- [15:50]
C
Well, for me, the story has to have an end. So that's part of the whole drafting out the big picture of a serialized story arc. Like, what is the ending of that story? And then it goes to the client's resources. Do you want to get to the end in 6, 8, 10, 12 episodes? Or maybe it's another number altogether. And then from there, you can kind of craft out how deep you can go into each one of those. But I do want to point out, Steve, that although we're talking about a story that encompasses multiple episodes, each episode also had a job. So each episode was a mini story. Now, we didn't use the whole hero journey in each episode. That was the broader piece. But each episode was like a sub story. It's like when you watch a Marvel superhero movie in the cinema, and they're going into, like, the background of this character and what's happening off to the side there. Each one of those are little mini stories that have a conflict, a resolution, and a little intricate piece, something that was important. That's the way I see the episodes. The episodes should stand alone on their own, but also really piece well together in an overall story arc.
- [16:56]
B
And also I'd say, though, in terms of how do you know? Sometimes you don't. For example, when Mark and I did the initial story arc, the initial storyboard, we thought we would be doing eight episodes. And it made sense to us. Everything worked out that way as we started collecting interviews and started actually after we did the first episode, realized, I'm not sure if this is gonna go eight. We were able to. The quality and the content of the interviews really lent itself to less than that. And we decided we didn't wanna just have filler episodes. We thought of a couple of things we could do as like a filler episode. And then we thought, you know, that's kind of a little insulting to the listener. Cause people, you know. And it also doesn't move the story along. It doesn't. So to tighten it up, we realized we had six good shows with a good rather than eight with a couple not so great.
- [17:46]
C
We could have ended at the same point that we did with eight episodes. But ultimately we ended up being resource locked towards at the end. In order to do the show with the resources that we had available to us, we had to basically scope it down to 6, still get to that end point, but do it in six episodes. Vice 8. I mean, that being said, we did release a bonus and the feedback on that bonus episode has been very positive. But originally that was not the idea to do it that way. Right.
- [18:15]
A
I love that you recognize that it didn't need to go eight and you made the decision to cut it back just because it sounds like the six episodes became more potent or more important because of it. And then the bonus one, I guess you didn't have to really follow the storyline so strictly. I don't know what the bonus episode was about, but it doesn't sound like it had to be tied into the first six. So that gave you a little bit of freedom to have a little more fun, right?
- [18:39]
C
Exactly. Yeah. The bonus episode had the same feeling, in fact, maybe a little bit more feeling than the overall story of the six episodes before. But for someone to listen to the bonus episode, maybe they would enjoy it, maybe not. But they probably wouldn't get as much enjoyment out of it as somebody who had gone through all six episodes. So think of it. To use my superhero analogy, again, think of it as like a good post credit scene.
- [19:05]
B
Right? Well, and ideally it would encourage them to go back and Listen to the whole thing. Cause they, you know, they'd know I'm missing something here. So that's at least the theory, the hope.
- [19:15]
A
Would they. I know this is more on the type of question about the specific show, but did they need to listen to episode one, then two, then three? You said they were kind of standalone, but did they need to go through each in order?
- [19:27]
C
They don't need to, because each episode focused on a different story, a different aspect of the story, and showcase and highlighted different stakeholders. And those stakeholders, just like in typical podcast production and promotion, you know, if you do an interview with somebody like, hey, promote that episode. For example, we did one on corporate partners, and we focused a lot on corporate partnerships and one or two specific companies in that episode. And I think anyone in that company or anyone outside that company, in that industry or possible employees or maybe people that want to hire those other folks from that. That company, they could listen to that episode and get the idea and impact of what these people and what these companies did for Habitat for Humanity without knowing the whole, you know, the housing crisis and, you know, some of the homeowner stories and some of the volunteer stories and crew leader stories. I think that gives it a little bit more depth. But I think every episode, you could dive in and listen to, and it would still be good. You just won't get the whole full big picture.
- [20:32]
B
And on the flip side, we did leave little breadcrumbs at the end. Our calls to action were kind of like, hey, tune in next time. This is the next episode. We'll be mentioning this or something. So, I mean, that had nothing to do with the content, you know, yes, you could listen to it, but it hopefully encouraged people to keep moving along in the story.
- [20:49]
A
Yeah. Which is what we should all encourage our clients to be doing anyway. Even if it's just an interview episode, if they've got the opportunity, tease about the upcoming episodes, get them to come back for sure.
- [20:58]
B
Absolutely. Yeah.
- [20:59]
C
One of the things we didn't do is at the beginning of every episode beyond episode one, and we didn't say, hey, go back to listen to episode one or recap of episode one. We made this very bingeable. But one of the things that we did do on the album art for each episode, the episode storyboard art, there's a little number up there. 1, 2, 3. And of course, you set up the RSS feed so it does the oldest episode first. So if somebody subscribes and plays, it starts from episode one and not the bonus episode, which is the last One that we dropped. So those little, little things right there were respectful of the people that were binging it and also respectful of the people that just dropped in on one episode to really hear what was going on with that particular aspect of the story.
- [21:42]
A
And were the episodes released one at a time or did you just drop them all like a big Netflix dump
- [21:47]
C
one at a time with a two week separation in between? Two weeks, yeah, we kind of milked it out. Yeah, two weeks, exactly. But again, and this is something else I think is great with offering storytelling as a service, especially if you do it with a few strategic partners. It should be something that'. Evergreen. It should be as Popular now in 2026. You know, we did the final episode right at the end of, of last year, 2025. But I think the story will be relevant in 2026. In 2036, I think it will continue to. To stand up and stand on its own. Which is another reason why I think, with all the thought that goes into it, to make sure that's an engaging, evergreen content. I think podcast producers and editors can charge a lot more for this because you're talking about a, you know, a 6, 8, 10, 12 episode project. High price point. But then you are delivered a show that is not just good now, but should be good months from now and hopefully even years from now.
- [22:47]
B
And Steve, one of the things we did that I really thought was fun, it took us longer to get ramped up before we were able to drop that first episode. We got stakeholder involvement. And this kind of helps with that. We released, what was it, two early episodes that disappeared once the first episode officially came out. And what they were, were just like Mark and I talking about, you know, who we're talking to and what's coming up. And it was very kind of behind the scenes, ish. And we said that Mark would say on, on the episode, you know, once episode one comes out, this is going to disappear. So download it, you know, subscribe now, blah, blah, blah. But it was fun putting them out.
- [23:24]
C
Yeah, that's a good point. It did take us longer to get out of the gate with that first episode. But to be respectful of the clients, like, all right, let's do a little bit of teaser, let's do a little bit of setup and also let them know where we're at with the project. Because I was getting a lot of emails like, hey, you know, how are things coming along? You know, what else do you need? And I wish I recognized the additional resources that we could have used to have Like a really deep eight episodes. Because of that, we like, all right, we set up the feed and we pushed out some early pre episodes that expired. Right. So once episode one came out, you know, somebody else goes to the feed, you can't find those early episodes. It kept stakeholders engaged and excited for the project, which, as we all know, can be. Can be key.
- [24:12]
A
Yeah, I've been in the podcast industry for a long time. Podcasting since 2010, podcast editing professionally since 2016. And in that time, I've learned a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff. And I've also learned you can never learn enough. Everything keeps changing. Look at what AI and video is doing in the past couple years. The Podcast Editor Academy has a goal of helping you to migrate through all of these changes as well. Draw in my over 10 years of professional podcast editing experience and my more than 30 years of running small businesses. Wait, is that right? 30 years? No, wait, it's 35 years. More than 35 years of running small businesses. Get access to me and other resources in the Podcast Editor Academy. Register now for a $249 quarterly membership. Every week I send out a weekly challenge. Get some of that windshield University Zig Ziggler always talked about with our private podcast you can take on the road with you and of course, our monthly office hours where you can get together with other professionals in this industry where the real learning takes place. Join now. Podcasteditoracademy.com that's podcasteditoracademy.com. You said a couple times if you had more resources in the world of podcasting, most of the time, more resources means time and money. What are you talking about? Some other types of resources that you could draw upon.
- [25:34]
C
Money and then more access to more people.
- [25:37]
A
More people.
- [25:37]
C
Okay, yeah, both of those. It wasn't so much time because, I mean, if you give me the people and the money, the time will respect that. Thank you very much. But with the way things were going, we were basically pretty tapped out with the resources that we had. And instead of having to go back and then pause the project, that was another reason why we did the two week momentum, because we're like, all right, well, now we're going to get going and I don't want to stop this train from going. And it probably would have meant a pause. To your point, Steve, more time to ramp up and integrate some of those resources. It's just a lesson learned, right?
- [26:11]
A
You guys did do a presentation at PodFest about this, about doing the show together and creating that. And plus, Mark you set up the Ask an Editor booth so you got to be able to hang out and talk with other editors. Pat, you were at the editor's booth there too. For the people who are listening right now who didn't get to attend the PodFest Talk Like Me, I didn't get
- [26:27]
C
to see it either.
- [26:28]
A
Was there a question or piece of feedback that you received that you think would be especially valuable for our audience, the professional podcast editor, producers, directors, managers that we didn't talk about yet today?
- [26:40]
B
Well, I talked to two people in the hall afterwards, which was really interesting because they were not editors. They had their own shows. They didn't work for clients, but they came because they saw the title storytelling in it, and they were intrigued by this. Both of them told me in different ways that they got stuff, they pulled information from it that they thought that they could use for their own shows. You know, even aside not selling anything, but they felt like it would kind of uplevel the quality of their own shows. And one of them said, you know, really something I never thought of before about what are the stories behind whatever, if it's a client, if it's your own show, who are the people? What's involved in this? And she said she just felt like it was going to give her a lot more depth. That was kind of neat, Steve.
- [27:26]
C
I did actually have an opportunity to dive deeper, and this was a surprise to me because it was the day after we were watching one of the NFL playoff games on the 30 foot screen at the sports bar in the middle of the resort that PodFest is at. There's another conference there as well, but it's a very big area, and I'm sitting next to a couple people, and one person I talked to, I was like, you know, do you attend any good sessions? And she said, some are good, some are bad. And I mentioned my session and she lit up. She didn't realize it was me that, you know, I spoke with Pat and delivered that session, but she said it was one of the better ones. And. And I asked her that question that you asked me, Steve, like, what did you get out of it? What did you take out of it? And for her, her show was very tactical, was very, very hands on, was very step by step oriented, was very matter of fact. And from that she learned how to incorporate story into not just the show itself, but into each episode so that the story becomes the highlight of it, not so much the tactical actions about it. Because in this day and age, information is kind of a commodity, whether you use AI or watch a YouTube tutorial or a Google search or whatever the information is out there. But it's really the story that motivates you to learn that information or how to use that information or how it could be abused or some of the pitfalls and things to avoid. That's where stories come in. And that's something that she said she was going to take away from that, and she was thinking about how to pivot from there. Then we talked about maybe like, take a break and think about it and tell people you're going to take a break. But season two is coming, and then season two would be that new format.
- [29:08]
A
Mark, I know you're using resources that are very AI centric, and then you had a background and experience with Habitat for Humanity. What were some other inspirations that drove you to want to try to do this serialized documentary type of show?
- [29:24]
C
Obviously, AI and different AI things. There's a few resources that weren't AI that really helped me to put things together and really gave me the vision. Of course, there's the big story arc. That's the hero journey. We've all heard about Star Wars Episode 4, the whole hero journey there. There's also the book Storybrand, which takes that old story format from, I think it was 1979, 1980, whenever Star wars first came out, and expanded on why the hero journey really worked. So that was the start of the overall story. Like, hey, how do we use the conflict, internal conflict, external conflict, the philosophical challenges, and bringing in the guide, who the hero is and what are the pitfalls and coming up with a resolution. I use that as the overall story arc. But then for each episode, I've seen lots of ads online about these storyteller tactic cards, and in those have like little mini ways to tell a story. So I used storyteller tactics for each episode so that each episode was like a little mini story that fit into that overall arc, that big arc. So those two resources alone helped me to design the overall show as well as each episode.
- [30:45]
A
And how about you, Pat? Was there something like that you were able to draw upon that helped you to be able to function in this new type of a role?
- [30:52]
B
I guess I got a lot more focused in terms of editing, you know, in terms of putting all that together. That's not really a resource. I don't know if it was definitely a mind skill broadening or skill deepening experience, but I think the story brand is something I relate to and try to incorporate a lot anyway, so I was really on board with Mark when he brought that up to use as a tool, I was very familiar with it, and we could work together real well with that.
- [31:21]
A
So you were stretched and challenged in the editing point to be able to
- [31:25]
C
do more and differently.
- [31:26]
A
And I'm sure it took a lot more patience to try and produce an episode because it takes a lot longer.
- [31:32]
B
Well, it does, and I didn't really expect that in the beginning. A good takeaway for me from this project, Steve, was that content's important, of course, and what Mark said about information is out there, but connection is really what makes podcasting so unique and really what makes this concept of what we're doing unique. Because you're not just talking about or getting information about Habitat for Humanity, about the housing crisis, about the families you're connecting with, the people involved in that. And that could be said, that could be applied to, really, any podcast that you work on.
- [32:13]
A
I think it's a beautiful way to end well.
- [32:15]
B
Thank you.
- [32:15]
A
So, Pat, I'm going to say thank you for being here. Can you tell our listeners if they're looking for some help on that or want to know a little bit more how they can reach out and get ahold of you?
- [32:24]
B
Yeah, my website is PatFenner Me, and you can take a look there. I have a contact page there. That's the easiest way to get through to me using the contact page, because I get them. And, yeah, I talk about not only podcast editing, but support for women who've been through Gray or Silver divorces. My Two Passions right now.
- [32:45]
A
Sounds like another narrative type show that needs to be developed out of that.
- [32:48]
B
Oh, yes. Yes.
- [32:50]
A
And, Mark, AI Deal. Thank you for being a guest on the show again.
- [32:54]
C
Thank you, Steve. Thank you for having me. It's great to be a return guest. And if people want to find out more about me, you can find me inside of Podcast Editor Academy.
- [33:03]
B
That's right.
- [33:04]
A
And I believe we have one more surprise for people.
- [33:10]
C
So one of the things I want to offer for the listeners of this show is something that we did on every episode of the show, Habitat Heart, Hammer, and Home. First off, find it on your local podcast player and give it a listen and tell us what you think of the work that Pat and I did. One of the things that we did with each episode is we did a musical recap. And of course, we leveraged heavily on AI, a couple of AI tools in order to produce those songs. And as a bonus to our listeners, we're going to produce a song for this episode that we'll play at the end of our interview.
- [33:44]
B
Enjoy it.
- [33:44]
A
Excellent. Well, I will make sure that we have links to Hart, Hammer and Home and of course, Pat and Mark's websites and how you can find them in the show notes. Stick around for this special AI bonus track. This one's for the editors.
- [34:00]
D
Started with a vision Steve brought the scene pattern Mark came through, kept the mission clean Talked about storytelling not just routine but building deeper work that don't fit the machine it ain't just audio, it's story you sell Shape a narrative vogue let the moment dwell from habitat builds to daku style spells turn your edits to go Let the pride and compel Strategic structured passion in the mix six episode all glean sharp like a flick they trim the fat no filler tricks let your work hit hard that's how they value sticks Level up the craft, take it to the heights not just clean sound bring a story to life Narrative driven cut sharper than a knife now you're not just editing and you're changing lives Sell the concept, charge what it's worth Bring the fire with the flow elevate your turf Podcast pros time to show your dirt this historic tennis service rebirth they use AI but never lean too hard still had to listen deep every word got starred Mark rain systems broke the deck down in shards Pat bought the heart, gave the voices to God each Peppermini story still tied to the arc with breadcrumb trails and emotional spark Drop them every two weeks let the brand leave a mark now they binge the whole thing Podcast turned on lessons from the field you can do it too if you're just cutting arms you're missing the view Add structure of motion your editing group now your business ain't cheap it's premium through Level up the craft take it to the heights not just clean sound bring a story to life Narrative driven cut sharper than a knife now you're not just editing you're changing lives Sell the concept, charge what it's worth Bring the fire with the flow elevate your turf Hot case post time to show your girth this is story tennis service rebirth Think evergreen, think depth and range push past the norm time to read your range you ain't touching is the tech you can shift the game when you leave with story you build the name add a story y add a cinematic weight get clients to see that you're shaping fate they charge like a boss know what to break cause what you deliver that's next level great so if you're in this field trying to rise above add purpose passion grit and love Push the standard show them what you're made of. This is storytelling the service Build what you're proud of Level up the crowd Take it to the heights not just clean sound Bring the stuff story to life Narrative driven cut sharper than the knife now you're not just editing, you're changing lives Sell the concept charge what is worth Bring a fire with the flow Elevate your turf Hot case pro Time to show your girth this is storage in the service Rebirth.
- [36:39]
A
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