← Podcast Editors Mastermind
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- [00:02]
A
Welcome to the Podcast Editors Mastermind show. I am Steve. Go ahead. I dare you to listen to this at 2x speed. Stewart. Today I've got a fantastic panel. We're going to be talking about the best podcast app features that are out there. First, I want to introduce Mr. Martin Lindiskog, who is from overseas. I'm going to ask you a quick question on scale 1 to 10, how important it is to you that all the doors and windows are locked at night? 5a5. Middle of the road. All right. I like you, Jen Trepic. You're co founder of the Podcast Professionals Association. You also have a podcast salad with a side of fries. How important it is to you that music is playing when you're not able to listen to podcasts. Oh, like 2A2.
- [00:46]
B
I'm a TV in the background.
- [00:49]
A
Okay.
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B
More than music. All right.
- [00:52]
A
All right. Daniel J. Lewis from the Audacity to podcast. Also creator of Podgagement and a tool I used this Morning, which is podchapters.com. how important is it to you, Daniel, to receive notifications from clients on your smartphone?
- [01:06]
C
Oh, thank you. It depends that we're going to say that a lot. If it's a chat request, it is super important. Emails, less important chat request.
- [01:17]
A
Okay, I got to dig into this. What do you mean by a chat request?
- [01:20]
C
Like on Podgagement and Pod chapters, I have a live chat for support. When someone sends a chat message, I want that notification immediately so I can respond as quickly as possible.
- [01:30]
A
Okay, so you're like me. It's support, support for your clients. And that's random. Any time of the day.
- [01:34]
D
Great.
- [01:35]
A
Okay. Dave Jackson, School of Podcasting, also now part of podcage. What a fantastic deal that was, huh? Yeah.
- [01:41]
D
Very happy about that.
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A
Yep. Scale of 1 to 10, how important is it to you that your spam folder is checked before it gets emptied?
- [01:48]
D
Oh, about a two.
- [01:51]
C
A two.
- [01:52]
D
Because, yeah, I get so much spam that I can just go in. Not to the point, because probably right now, I'm not joking, I probably have a thousand things in my spam folder. And there's a part of me that goes, I should probably just go delete all spam. But I know there's maybe something in there, so I'll look at the first page. Kind of like Google. If you're not on the first page of my spam, I'm not gonna open it. But my inbox is just a complete disaster right now and it drives me crazy. It's a never ending battle. So I would say a 2. Cause most of my spam is actually spam.
- [02:29]
A
Okay. That's important to me because there's some kind of an email that's gonna be coming to me that they should probably look at, and then my email's always dropped in people's spam folders, and I just can't control that, so. All right, well, I appreciate you all being here today. We're gonna talk about the best podcast apps and mostly the features. And as we get started here, I want to know, what is the primary app that you're using to consume podcasts? Now, I know we're approaching this as service providers, but we listen to podcasts too, and I think it's a benefit for us to know how these apps work. Dave. Dave Jackson, what app do you use primarily?
- [02:59]
D
Podcast all day long.
- [03:01]
A
Love that podcast. Was that purchased by WordPress, I think, a couple years ago?
- [03:05]
C
Yeah.
- [03:06]
A
Yeah. Excellent. Okay, Daniel J. Lewis, which one do you use?
- [03:09]
C
I'm using Overcast. It just works so great. It doesn't have the podcasting 2.0 features, which I'd really love for it have. It looks like it might eventually, but I love it because it just works so well for what I want from a podcast app.
- [03:24]
A
Jen Trepic, what do you use primarily? Well, I guess you gave me two, and you have a reason for two. Give us the two that you use.
- [03:30]
B
All right. When I listen for myself, like the shows that I like to listen to, every week I'm on Spotify, shows that I'm listening to for business purposes, I'm using Apple.
- [03:41]
A
What do you mean by business purposes? Explain that.
- [03:43]
B
If it's a show that I'm listening to because one of my clients is interested in it, or we're doing research on the show to pitch it to be a guest, or, you know, there's some reason for it, but I don't necessarily want it in my regular rotation of the things that I'm gonna listen to every single week.
- [04:05]
A
Okay, so you got your personal. You know, here's my playlist of true crime podcasts. And I'm not gonna put that in Apple. I'm gonna put in Spotify. Martin, what app do you use for consuming Pod? Whether it's business or personal or both.
- [04:21]
E
TrueFans FM.
- [04:23]
A
TrueFans FM sounds like a website. Is it an app, though? It is an app.
- [04:27]
E
It is an app, and it's website also. And it's, you could say a digital town hall also, and, you know, platform over time. But you could have all kind of
- [04:36]
A
things, because I believe they Also do media hosting.
- [04:39]
E
Yes, I'm hosting one of my podcasts there.
- [04:43]
A
It's interesting that it's got all that stuff tied in there.
- [04:45]
C
Well, Steve. Yes, Steve, what do you use?
- [04:50]
A
Yes, well, I'm like you, Daniel. I use Overcast all day long. Now let me give you the results here as to what the surveyors said. We had about 27 respondents. That did include me, which I added mine at the very last minute because I'm like, oh, I should probably fill out the survey myself. We had six that used Overcast. That was by far the number one. Three that said they used Apple primarily as their consumption app. Pocket Cask come in third place, Podcast Guru, also in that spot. And Spotify, they were all pretty much equal as far as how many people use them as their primary app. Other ones that get a mention here is GoodPods, which GoodPods is a podcast app. It's also a website. Very, very feature rich on the website, I believe. I've never actually used it to consume podcasts. So this is another reason why I love the survey is somebody's bringing attention to some features that I might want it for. We'll talk about that in a bit, Podcast Addict. And then we had one single vote for the rest of these, which is Cast O Matic Podcast Republic, which I believe is Android only. I think Trufans. Martin, that was you. And then YouTube, somebody said YouTube app is what they use primarily for consuming podcasts. Now there's some explanation to that. Daniel, don't go off. We'll get to that in a minute. But if I were to survey these people and sort them by how many hours were consumed? This is kind of a weird. I mean, it's a small sample size, but the app that got the most consumption from the people that responded on average was Spotify. Seemed like they were listening on Spotify more than second place was overcast by slight margin. It beat it out. But overcasting, yeah. I'm wondering if the use of the apps and the usage of it, like Martin, you're very deep into using Trufans for a bunch of things. I already know this. And you use it for like 10 hours a week, which you know, when you got a full time job and maybe you got a family and other responsibilities, 10 hours is still a lot of consumption. So how do you squeeze that? I mean, what is it about Trupans that allows you to consume podcasts more or in a better way?
- [06:51]
E
On my screen, on my phone, I have all of these that you have mentioned, plus a couple of More that I've tested and used, like Fountain for example, But I could use that at the same time as I'm working and it's fascinating. I like apps, but I'm using very much the web browser in order to listen to podcasts. Now. I think Adam Curry said that Curry and the Keeper, plenty of females used web based podcast listening because they are doing other things at the same time. I'm a fan of hundreds of podcasts at the moment because I get these new tips and suggestions and some years ago I listened to maybe some of my own in order to see if it tested and working and a few other podcasts. But now I've been listening to all kinds of new podcasts because I get suggestions and tips and what so. So I like that. So that's why it could be 10 hours per week. Yeah.
- [07:53]
A
And you are using it with a business purpose in there. I like that. Now, Daniel, you, when you responded, I'm going to go tell everybody you had the, the world record of most hours listened, which I think you reported about 50 per week. But you don't actually listen for 50 hours a week.
- [08:11]
C
No, I confess, I am a pod speeder. I listen usually at 2.5x with smart speed. So that's reducing the silences. But I do that differently for different podcasts. Like for a comedy, I do not use smart speed. So I do still hear the comedic timing. It's just compressed. Everything is compressed. But I might still listen a little bit faster than normal just because I can listen faster than normal and there's so much good content that I want to consume. And that's why. Yeah, about 50 hours of content a week at least. Maybe even more. I might have a problem.
- [08:47]
B
And I thought my 2x made me impatient. I'm so impressed.
- [08:53]
A
Yeah, well, I definitely do 1.2 or more on almost everything, though there are some that I consume shorter. But the reason why I have these on 1.2 speed is I'm listening to a lot of shows about podcasting to stay in touch with the industry. Either the niche that I serve or by serving this niche of podcasting, I'm trying to consume as much as possible. And the number one response that we had from people who completed the survey, 51.9% said the adjusting the playback speed was a feature that they used in their app. Dave, how fast do you listen to podcasts?
- [09:29]
D
1.7.
- [09:31]
A
Oh, my gosh.
- [09:32]
D
Yeah, with trimming the silence as well. And I'm like you, I listen to a lot of podcasts about podcasting just to see what's going on and see if there's anything new or things like that. But yeah, 1.7.
- [09:47]
E
Yep. All right.
- [09:48]
A
48.1% said notifications of new episodes was also a feature. That was number two, which I thought was interesting. I don't want notifications of new episode releases. I'd rather they just show up. Martin, do you have anything to comment on that? Do you use that feature in True Fans?
- [10:03]
E
A little bit, but it could be so called stressful. Also because I had so many podcasts, I got lots of notification and even by email, so now I have only a few. But I want to comment on the previous one to joke a little bit. But it got me really thinking when Adam Curry said, what are you doing when you really listen to higher speed? It got me thinking when Adam said that. This need of speeding up things. So I have 1.0 the batch.
- [10:33]
A
Yeah, you might be 1.0. I'm going to listen at 1.2. And it's funny because I'll edit at 1.5, but it's mostly because I know the cadence and I know my clients, so I'm used to that. But it's just like reading. You can read at a different speed if you choose to. But if you can read faster than you used to, why not? You're still taking in all the information.
- [10:52]
E
That's a good skill.
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A
Yeah. Anyway, I thought that was interesting and that was fun.
- [10:55]
B
I have a thought on the notification piece. Okay, so I don't want the notification in my phone outside of the app, but when I open the app, I want it to be very clear what the new episodes are of the shows that I listen to every week. So the in app identification of new episodes, I think is critical.
- [11:18]
A
And how do you see that? And you're gonna do that in Spotify? Cause that's when you're listening for yourself. Is it just a green dot saying, hey, this is new, or how do you know?
- [11:25]
B
Yeah, I think it's a blue dot next to the show and they tend to be at the top of the page when I open the app. They're glitchy these days, so they're driving me nuts. But it tends to be at the top of the page and then there's a blue dot if there's a new episode that I haven't listened to yet.
- [11:48]
A
See, I think that's where the number six response was. 25.9% said smart playlists were important to them. And that's where you have it automatically just drop into a folder that is your. And with Overcast, I don't know if it's the same with Pocket Cast, but with Overcast you can create separate playlists. And I've got one playlist just for sermons. I've got one playlist just for the major stuff and I got one for the stuff that I listen to with my wife. And it's wonderful to be able to segregate this stuff. I think it's a very important both as a service provider knowing how that works and then encouraging my clients to get people to subscribe because that's going to make it drop into that folder automatically rather than hey, rate and review. That's such a waste of time in my mind. Dave, you were going to say something.
- [12:32]
D
Well, what I love about Pocketcast because usually an app is either a queue, meaning they come in and you add them to kind of the up next list or it'll be a smart list. And Pocket and I used to use Overcast and I love their smart playlist. Well, Pocket Cast has those and and they also have an up next feature. So that's kind of my first tier. Like if you're really one of my favorite podcasts, I can go into that podcast and say when it comes out, add it to my up next and then I can even say and put it at the top of the list or put it at the bottom and I can also tell it do I want it to be downloaded or streamed. So I basically now live in my up next because I've already kind of christened you as top tier podcast. And then if you I ever run out of up next then I'll go to my playlist and like oh, I want to listen about money or health or podcasts or whatever. So they're kind of have the best of both worlds.
- [13:24]
A
Yeah, it's funny that you said that you stream or download because 55% people said they actually download to their device which is going to take up storage space. And the other 40 whatever percent said that they just stream it so they can see, not see, but they don't take up that storage space on their device. But then if you look at. Well, you can't look at it. I've got the results here. The fourth most commonly mentioned feature that people use is the auto delete after played 44.4%. I think that's fantastic that my to do list is auto cleaning. Fantastic getting rid of that episode. Although I have found and maybe you guys can raise your hand or speak up. How many of you guys have had to go back to an episode because you missed something that you wanted to take a note of. Show notes, a link in the show notes or something like that.
- [14:09]
D
Well, that's in pocketcast. There's a history, so you can see what have you listened to in the past? And you're like, oh, there it is. Click, and you're right back to it. Yeah.
- [14:18]
A
And there's a feature that you use in PocketCast, Dave, that I don't know that exists anywhere else. Go ahead, tell us what that is.
- [14:23]
D
Yeah, it's the one that, when I found it, I swear I heard like, oh, it was like, amazing. And that is a bookmark feature. So I'll be listening to James Kridlin or whatever, and I'm like, oh, I want to talk about this on the show. And I will hit bookmark. And what's cool is I can see all the bookmarks for that show. I can see all the bookmarks for just that episode, or all the bookmarks I've made about every show ever. And what's great about that is I can go in and see those and then go, oh, I need to reach out to James and go, can I play this in my show and get all the approvals to play things? But I just love that fact because there are times when someone will say something, especially if you're doing podcast audits. This is where I was like, oh, this is the tool. Because now I'll be listening to something and I'm like, hey, you've got nine calls to action Bookmark. And then you can name the bookmark and you can even hit the microphone and just talk the bookmark, and it'll type it for you. The bookmark feature is the one that pulled me away from Overcast. I was like, oh, this is amazing.
- [15:24]
B
Love that.
- [15:24]
E
And in truefence, you could see the activity and you could do a note tab or writing a note for a specific episode and a specific time. And also this social graph that when the API, I think, is working on Twitter and BlueSky or whatnot, it will send out what you're listening to. And Sam Sati has said that they will have some kind of assistant. Two assistants, one called Kevin and one called Kelly, like Wired magazine with thousand true fans. So you could ask them in the future about things like, please bookmark this, or do you have any tips on a new podcast or whatnot.
- [16:08]
A
So there's something like that built into Trufans, a bookmark type feature.
- [16:12]
E
That's what you got me in the future.
- [16:13]
A
So, yeah, because normally I'm grabbing my phone, I'm hitting that side button and the home button at the same time to take the screenshot timestamp, and I'll just come to it later. I gotta drive.
- [16:23]
D
Yeah.
- [16:24]
A
Dave, you had something else you want to add?
- [16:25]
D
Well, just another feature that a lot of people may not know. Overcast, podcast guru, Pocket Cast and Podurama is another app that I used to use, allow you to upload files to the website version of the app and have it come down. So if somebody sends you a file, or I will often get somebody's newsletter copy paste, throw it into ChatGPT, download the audio file, and then upload it to Pocket Cast, because I don't want to read it. And then I will. I can just go into Pocket Cast and go, show me my files, and there it is. Or whatever the latest Google Notebook LM is spit out at you. It's an easy way to take files that aren't podcasts and still listen to them in the app.
- [17:08]
C
This is huge, I think, for producers as well, because even though I don't edit my own show, I have someone else editing my show for me. I always listen to my episode before it publishes. And in Overcast, you can upload to Overcast. I'm a premium subscriber, so I can upload to my Overcast app and listen then inside my podcast app the way I listen to any other episode, with the same speed adjustments and everything. So what that does for me, and I think for the producers should also think about this, is then it's allowing me to listen to the episode the way my audience is listening to it, or the same way I'm used to listening to other episodes. So I catch certain things better in certain cases like that, as well as I realize certain other things may not be as much of an issue to try and edit out or in, enhance or change the audio processing because of how it's consumed within the app. And just listening through earbuds while I'm doing chores instead of listening at my studio station through studio monitor, headphones or anything like that.
- [18:15]
A
Yeah, that might be one of the most important features of Overcast. And yes, it's the pro version that you get that with. Dave, you listed off a bunch of apps. I mean, are there other. You said there are other apps that have a feature where you can upload audio to it and it then plays in the app. Are there any that are free and it doesn't require a pro version like Overcast?
- [18:31]
D
I think almost all of them. I'M weird. If I really like your app and start using it, I will pay for it. Podurama, I think, has a free version, but they also have a lifetime version, which is what I bought. And the only reason I stopped using them is I had such a large smart playlist. They were kind of like, no, Moss, like, that's enough podcast.
- [18:51]
A
But your phone is full. Well, then we could do something like Jenna's doing and segregate listening to apps, not just in playlists, but through apps. You can take your. I need to review this stuff, throw it into one of these free apps that maybe aren't your power user type of apps, but just use that to do a quick review as you're walking down the street or driving somewhere. I think it's a wonderful use for that as service providers like we are. All right, let's go back to the survey results. I noticed that here's something Daniel liked. 4.81% said they utilize chapters inside of podcast apps. You know, I had never really used them until the last year.
- [19:32]
B
Same.
- [19:33]
A
Yeah, it just. It's gotten better, hasn't it, Jen?
- [19:35]
B
So much better.
- [19:36]
A
Yeah. Apple creates their own, but you can override it. Spotify creates their own. I think you can override it or you can correct it in Spotify itself, but even the other apps, I mean, Overcast is fantastic for chapters. Daniel, this is your area. I mean, why has Chapters become so great just as of late?
- [19:55]
C
Well, actually, before I answer that, I want to ask you a question, because this helps answer this question you're asking. How are you using Chapters when you say you use chapters? How, As a listener, how are you using Chapters?
- [20:09]
A
Most of the time it is to skip to that first meet part of the episode, but it's not. I'm going to say it used to be more that if I were to use a chapter, I'd want to find out where the conversation really started. But lately it has been to go back to a section at the beginning. Just re listen to that part.
- [20:27]
D
Yeah. Kind of like what Steve said. I almost count it as a strike button. If I'm listening to something and it's just not holding my attention, I'm like, all right, well, let's see what else you got next. And I'll start listening. And if you're not holding my attention, it's like, and at that point, I might give you one more skip. Or I'm just swipe left. All right, you know what? This episode wasn't for me, and I'll delete it. But my Favorite is I was listening to James and Sam on Pod News Weekly and they were interviewing somebody who was very, it was very European specific. Nothing wrong with that. It's just I'm not in Europe, so it didn't. And it was so cool to just go, oh, let's go to the next part. And it was great. And it continued on. So it's kind of a self editing tool in a way.
- [21:10]
C
So what I love the chapters for is the context that it provides. And this is what I encourage all podcasters to, to think about, and producers especially, is the extra context that you can provide the audience to enhance the experience. Like when you go to hear someone give a public presentation, whether that's a sermon, a lesson, something like that, and you have the notes that go along with the session, it's easier to follow along with what they're saying because you can easily review back to see, oh, what was number one again? Oh yeah, that's what it was. So you can easily just look back without having to listen back again. You can also see where things are going, so you can start making those connections in your mind and anticipating certain things and looking forward to aspects of it coming. And you also just have that immediate context. Because I don't know about anyone else, but I'll confess this, probably no one else does this, but there are times I listen to an episode and I get distracted and I am so sorry when I get distracted. It's really helpful if I can look at the chapter and be reminded, oh yeah, this is what we're talking about. Whether that is someone talking about a tool within their episode, a movie or point number five, or a particular news story, whatever it is, it's so often helpful just seeing that title. But Chapters can do more than that. They can do also an image and an optional link. So that provides then the call to action more handy for things. And I think that as more podcasters use chapters and in their episodes, that's going to help the audience to appreciate them more and I think maybe even start to ask for them. Because now that Apple podcasts and Spotify are automatically generating chapters, the audience is getting used to these things. So if they then listen to a podcast that doesn't have these, then it's going to be like a cheaper experience a little bit and doesn't present those calls to action immediately. And just think about the aspect of an audio podcast being able to show something in the moment that they're talking about. That thing is so great to use with chapters. And there's a Lot more that Chapters will do in the future. But that's why I love Chapters, both as a producer, as a podcaster, and as a listener. So that's three things, really.
- [23:28]
B
I just want to jump in on that because I think sort of what you're talking about and what Dave was sharing too, the Chapters have the potential to increase our listen through rates. If we hit a point where we've lost them for whatever reason, whether it's the distraction or there was a piece of this that they're like, well, that doesn't really apply to me or whatever. We have the opportunity to not lose them entirely.
- [23:50]
C
Yes.
- [23:51]
B
If they can see what else is happening. And then the other piece that you made me think of, Daniel, is that it's incredibly important as producers is that you encourage the creator to let you create the Chapters versus using the default. Because that's a lot of power to be giving away and a lot of lucrative assets to be giving away to default versus owning that real estate and what it could do for the show.
- [24:21]
D
Absolutely. Because you could put some keywords in there that when those then get imported into PodPage. Now you've got your keywords on your website. And I'm not sure at this point if Apple or Spotify are paying attention to the Chapters, but they should be. And if they ever do, it'd be cool if your keywords were in there.
- [24:41]
A
Another thing that I think was interesting, and I think it's because the podcast apps are paying attention, is transcripts. And I've been finding myself using transcripts more often, watching it, reading along at the time when I'm not driving and seeing the words that they're speaking. Now, I think that there is a cautionary tale to be said here as well, which is, as service providers, I'm doing this. I'm offering the opportunity to have the transcripts edited and uploaded and replace the ones that are in the apps, or at least the ones that will read the transcript. I don't know if we can overwrite those in Overcast yet. I think they do, but I had a client who had a guest and the guest, she was talking about how she bought a condo and the transcript put an M at the end of that word and it's like, okay, we can't let that go out. That has to be fixed. Now, that wasn't Apple podcasts, it wasn't Spotify. It was just this one app that I use. It's on my desktop. It's not the best, but we can't let mistakes like that get out there. Have you guys had any experiences with transcripts as far as going in and correcting them, adding them? Martin, what do you got?
- [25:49]
E
Yeah, that's what would be nice to delegate also to somebody who likes it and an expert on it. But I see that as a bilingual in a way, planning to create a podcast that will be both in Swedish and Danish and it will be interesting which transcript tool will be able to get that. But then I heard from somebody, it's a company called Klang AI that is. It's expert and it's built in Scandinavia. So I will test that out. So that could be an issue, of course. And of course spelling Lindeskog in other words, could be a challenge. But I heard, Daniel, that you have some tool with that that you could insert words that you often use and it will remember it and get better on it. But yeah, transcript you can't take for granted. But in a way we have done it. But it's lots of work behind the scenes. But I listen, for example with transcript on Apple when I listen to this Danish podcast and in order to understand, because Danish and Swedish are similar, but not exactly. And then I listen on slower speed in order to get it. And then I had the transcript. So I think it was it Dave that said that maybe it was this, that maybe Apple had, you know, a suit or how to say lawsuit hanging over them for accessibility.
- [27:11]
D
Oh, that was Sirius Satellite Radio.
- [27:14]
E
Yeah, so that could be a thing. Also that transcript have turned out. But I like it. But I know that I could do more with it. But also a great service because it's not so many, at least in Sweden. But think about it.
- [27:29]
C
I think I'll give you two tips here working with transcripts for your clients. One is really make sure you know the transcript tool that you're using if you're using one of these AI powered tools. And I built this into POD Chapters as well. And you can also use it through MacWhisper as a tool I've used that transcribes things locally on your Mac or other tools. But look for something where you can enter terms, proper nouns, repeated terms, anything like that, and think about all the proper nouns that were mentioned in the episode. So like when I transcribe my episodes of the Audacity to podcast inside of POD Chapters, I put in pod chapters podgagement, the audacity to podcast my own name podcasting 2.0. Like a lot of these terms that I know I'm frequently using, that helps guide the transcription engine to properly transcribe those things. It doesn't always guarantee it does it correctly, but especially if you've got something where it could be misheard or misspelled, put those in there. In your transcript tool. There might also be a find and replace that you could use. But then the second tip is even considering a manual find and replace on the transcript. Think about your proper nouns and, and the web addresses. You could even just search your transcript for slash, whether that's the word slash or the actual slash character or dot com or dot org. But then you start getting into all the different top level domains, but searching for web addresses. Like I frequently find that transcripts will transcribe the audacity to podcast as the space and then the domain is audacitytopodcast.com I still own that domain, so that's not an issue for me with ownability of that. But that's the little trick is when you're searching for those things, when you know what those proper nouns are, the web addresses, you can very quickly correct those because those might be some of the things that the transcripts would struggle the most with automatically generating and might be the most important to get correct in the transcript.
- [29:27]
A
Yeah, tackling in advance. A lot of the AI tools are doing that these days, which I'm very appreciative of because then it helps me to go and then to do that word check later and make sure that they're spelled right. It's easier to go back and see that it was right than to have to go in and correct it every time it's wrong. A few other things, other features that people were mentioning that weren't part of the checkbox survey. Cheryl Robinson said adjustable fast forward and reverse time settings. That's in overcast. You can adjust, Skip forward only 15 or 30 seconds or, you know, you can adjust that. Super comments. I know somebody who mentioned that here. What is super comments? Martin?
- [30:03]
E
Yeah, it is like a boostergram. Send donation, some amount of satoshis. So that's a super comment.
- [30:12]
A
All right, let's talk about that later on in the show. Here's some more charts. Nola Simon said charts. And I was wondering how utilizing charts in an app works, but then they're using GoodPods, so maybe they're talking about the website for discoverability. I think discoverability is important.
- [30:30]
C
I think there is a moment, and I've done this a couple times too, where you might actually catch up with all your podcast listening and you're just curious what else is out there? What kind of new content is out there to watch. Like how often might you be on Amazon Prime, Netflix, Hulu, Disney plus, whatever? And you've got your shows that you always watch, but you just feel like, I want something new, I want something different today. What else is out there that's good? I think that's where maybe the listeners might be interested in the charts.
- [31:00]
B
Well, it's interesting because each app, I think, is attempting their own solve to the discoverability issue that has been the top issue in the industry since the dawn of podcasts. So everybody's attempt at how they address it is somewhat helpful and somewhat frustrating.
- [31:21]
E
I have a comment there on this location that I get on Truefence nearby you, for example, in Sweden. So you see the flag and this podcast is produced in this country or talking about this place.
- [31:37]
A
A podcasting 2.0 feature that identifies a location so you can get some community out of there. I wonder how service providers would benefit
- [31:45]
E
from several people like James Kridlenard. You know, how many podcasts are out there in different countries? I could get stats how many are listening and how long they are listening. But how many podcasts anyway, you should know that. I know I could have a guess. But still, it's hard to find information about that and that could be interesting for a producer marketer. How big is the market in my area, potential market and whatnot?
- [32:18]
B
I mean, local podcasting has been a theme for years of, you know, how hyperlocal can you get to serve a specific community? And so that tag could be incredibly important for some shows.
- [32:30]
A
Yeah, that's interesting. All right. Other features, Apple Watch and easy to use in the car. A couple things that people had said were handy. I think that's very cool. You can cross Apple, I know, with Overcast and there's another one here somewhere too. I forget they said they can leave off in one place and go pick up a different device and pick up the same place. I think it's fantastic.
- [32:52]
D
I love that feature. I don't know how because I know podcast guru does that. I know Overcast does that in my travels. Pocketcast does it in a magical way that can be on my computer listening. Go into my kitchen and ask the woman from Amazon to open Pocket cast and she will pick up right where she left off. And then I can pick it up on my. I don't know how they're somehow syncing. Like I literally. I could hit stop, take four steps, grab my phone, hit play, and it's right where I left off.
- [33:24]
A
That is crazy.
- [33:25]
D
That's a fun because like Podcast guru has that, but it wasn't like there was some sort of delay to when it would sync, which I understand. Otherwise you got to be syncing every minute and that's really resource heavy. So I don't know how they're doing it. I just was like, well, maybe that's one of the advantages of being owned by WordPress. You got lots of servers somewhere doing that.
- [33:45]
A
A few other features. This one sound really techie to me. This is from Matthew Bliss. Backup subscriptions and status to an offline file, OPM file in Podcast Addict. Does anybody understand what that is?
- [33:58]
C
Yeah, it's the OPML file is basically a backup of all of your RSS feeds so that you can export all of your subscriptions or what you're following from one app and import it into another. It's a great feature in podcast apps. The unfortunate thing about that is that it doesn't include episode level information. So it's not going to know what episodes you've listened to or haven't listened to of a podcast. It's basically just a list of RSS feeds so that you can then take your subscriptions from one app to another. But you miss out on that syncing ability like Dave was mentioning with his single app.
- [34:39]
A
I think I did that when I moved from Apple Podcasts to Overcast. I think I did that.
- [34:43]
E
Martin, Is it available in Spotify?
- [34:49]
A
Moving on, We've been talking with some luminaries and some experts in the field of podcasting and podcast services about the best features in podcast apps. There was one respondent who said YouTube was their number one app for consuming podcasts. Now, before anybody jumps on this, because I know I've got my opinions, my very, very strong opinions, let me say what they responded with as far as what makes this app their app of choice. YouTube lets me not only listen to audio podcasts, but also listen to videos which are exclusively there as if they were podcasts. So basically saying, I've got YouTube Premium, I can turn off the screen and listen to anything on YouTube. That's what I read there. Tell me if I'm wrong. They also like adding things to watch later very quickly and easily because they're going to stumble across something and say, oh, this is 20 minutes, I only got 10, let's just save it for later or whatever. It's easy to make other playlists. I give that to them and remembers played position, which I think every podcast app is going to do. And has a sleep timer, which I don't know if I mentioned this, but Sleep Timer was one of the top 10 features that people were saying that they use it for. So we're all falling asleep to our devices. Anyone want to comment? On top of that, the YouTube app being used as a podcast app, it
- [36:15]
C
surprises me that the response was seemingly so favorable because aside from the whole definition of a podcast thing, which I have strong opinions on, if YouTube was a podcast app, it's a horrible one because like a lot of these things that we haven't talked about but we just take for granted in other podcast apps are not in YouTube as an app. Like the ability to quickly jump to an episode that you were already listening to. How do you find that in YouTube? If you were listening to something from a month ago, yes, when you jump back in, it remembers your playback position. But how do you jump back to that episode? And like that YouTube does not automatically hide things after you've watched it or listened to it. It just stays there distracting you. And with the distraction of YouTube, that's the other thing is as soon as you watch one video, it wants to take you on to another one. I remember one evening I was watching a YouTube video and I started just going down the rabbit hole of the YouTube video recommendations. And by the end of the evening, about five hours later, I knew how to build a nuclear bomb. That's YouTube.
- [37:30]
B
I end up with infinitely more questions to this person to understand the YouTube choice than about YouTube itself. Is it that you're spending a majority of your day at a computer where it's not? You couldn't be on your phone or with headphones in, but you could be listening to the computer? Or like I used to work at an office. I'd have a headset that was connected to the computer and the phone. I could listen to something on the computer versus having my personal headphones in connected to the phone. Like, there was a different acceptance of that kind of behavior. So like, is there something else that's keeping this person where YouTube is the preferred platform? I'd be curious how many of these shows they listen to first on a podcast app and then transition to YouTube.
- [38:24]
A
Well, I'm going to defend YouTube here because again, the comment was YouTube lets me not only listen to audio podcasts, but I also listen to videos. So they're using YouTube Premium or they have their screen on their computer or their phone all day long because you can't turn off the screen without it shutting off. So it's gotta be the pro version.
- [38:43]
B
That's where I think some of this choice is person specific versus App attributable.
- [38:51]
A
Yes. Yes. And then to answer those other objections is it sounds like you could use playlists a lot for this. To jump back to an episode you wanted to listen to again, and they're saying they use playlists a lot for this feature or save it for later. That could be there. We were talking about Smart Playlist. Smart Playlist was the number six most commonly checked off box on the survey. So that's.
- [39:14]
B
Do we know how old this person is also?
- [39:16]
A
No, I don't ask that kind of information.
- [39:18]
B
But there is sometimes, like, it's an interesting demographic shift in the app preferences.
- [39:25]
D
Yeah, right.
- [39:26]
A
Well, in a previous episode, we had Andrea Klunder on, and she was talking about how she's working with Neo Divergent kids in school, and all they do is YouTube. So I'm gonna say, if you want to grow an audience, you need to have a presence on YouTube.
- [39:41]
D
Well, I was surprised because I found a new show on YouTube and I really liked it. And I was like, oh, I wonder if she has a podcast. Well, she does, and it's just the audio version. And I put it into my whole thing and I went to listen to it and of course heard two pre rolls that I don't hear on YouTube because I'm a premium subscriber, and then I got to hear two mid rolls. And the other thing is, and I noticed this a lot about YouTubers, and you don't notice it when you're watching it on your TV. Is most audio on YouTube like a true YouTuber because, you know, the microphone's 10ft away and it's out of the shot, isn't very good. And I was surprised at listening to her in the car where she was battling tire noise. Her room noise really took over the audio. And I was like, you know what? This is a YouTube only kind of show for me. I'll just watch it in the living room. So that was one advantage of being. I was like, oh, this. This is very backwards for me. Usually I'm. I'm finding things on YouTube and then I'll listen to it. And this was one where I tried to do that, but the audio was so bad. And the number of, you know, she's getting her $3 CPM that I was like, well, I can't take the ads. And I went back to YouTube to listen to her.
- [40:55]
A
Interesting way to look at it. Well, I had somebody reach out to me who's like, hey, I'm just sending this out to people and trying to grow the audience. I've got a podcast. Here it is. It's on YouTube. And I came back, said, hey, I can't find it in a podcast app. Can you please tell me where I can get it? Oh, it's just on YouTube. And I'm like, okay, well, it's 80 minutes long. You want me to check it out? I'm already at my computer eight hours a day. I can't listen to it on my phone because if I turn off the screen, it goes away. And it doesn't take much to put in RSS feed or to get it out there. Oh, well, we don't want to spend any money on this. Okay, so you want me to pay 15 bucks, $15.99 a month for premium YouTube to check out your 80 minute episode to see if I like it before I subscribe to it. And I can only do it if I listen on the YouTube app. All right, that's my. Well, here, I'll give you my four rules. I'll give you my four rules for what a podcast is. Okay? And you can tell me where I'm wrong. It can be audio or video, but it has to meet these other restrictions as well. It has to be able to play with the screen off if I choose to, without having to pay for the right to be able to use that feature. It can play without the Internet being required at all times. Maybe off for a little bit or whatever, but at least part of the time I got to be able to be offline, especially where I live. And this is the key right here. The number one thing that I think that makes a podcast a podcast. And you'll find it in this definition from the ampicord that just came out is it needs to be available in more than one podcast directory. And if you call podcast YouTube a podcast directory, that's fine. It just can't only be in one place because you are taking away. What I feel is one of the key things in podcasting is, is you can consume it the way you want as a listener without having to pay for it. It doesn't mean it can't be on YouTube. It just means that there has to be another option for people who want to check it out and not restricting it to them. Otherwise, it's just it's an exclusive or it's a private podcast. That's different.
- [42:54]
C
What I really like about that way that you defined it is you cut out the technical jargon. Like you didn't mention rss. You just really focused on the benefits. Yes. Those benefits could also potentially apply to other types of media. So that's where the specificity diminishes a little bit. But what you did was you focused on the benefits that people can be like, yeah, that's what I want. Like, if we say rss, audiences aren't thinking, yes, I want rss, except the super nerds, but you focused on the benefits with that definition. And in general, that's what I think a lot of us need to do when we're talking to audiences or helping podcasters talk to their own audiences is focus on the benefits to the audience.
- [43:40]
B
To me, all of this, like, I was surprised you didn't mention RSS in your definition. But the piece of all of this then lends itself to the conversation. Like Daniel started to say of what is it that we're asking the listener to do? Your story is a great example of that. The monetization, the funding pieces are all great examples of that. Where we have to, again, as we're listening in whatever app it is, what is the listener experience of this? And the more aware we can be of that when we are producing, strategizing, marketing, whatever it is, the better off everything is going to be.
- [44:19]
A
Yeah. And I'll defend the person who wants to be video only, who wants to also call it a podcast, put it on YouTube. Absolutely. Biggest exposure area there. Lots of benefits for being found there. Spotify. They can upload their video to Spotify, even if it's just video on Spotify and they don't distribute it elsewhere. It's in Spotify. There's two places. But then Apple HLS gives us another opportunity. The technology behind that gives us another opportunity to share a video in another way in more than one place. And because of that technology, if we can find a media host that supports Apple HLS and the alternative enclosure, now, we can get video into other apps as well. We're talking about a dozen different places now. It's not just that it has to be RSS or it can't be video. It can be all the above. For ones who say it has to be a video, and I don't want it to be an audio somewhere in a podcast app like Overcast that doesn't play video.
- [45:21]
C
I'm not so sure that I want video in my podcast app anymore. And I say anymore, because I was watching video podcasts back in 2005, before YouTube came along. That's because this was all brand new to me. When I discovered podcasts, I was just eating it up. Audio and video shows and doing all of my listening through A computer at that time. Because smartphones didn't exist back then, I didn't have an ipod. Today though, I use my podcast app on my phone with my phone stored in my pocket or holster or something like that out of the way. I'm not looking at my phone. I want to be listening. If I want to watch something, I sit down at my computer or some people sit down at their tv. So I'm used to using a different app to watch something. So when it comes to overcast as well. And back when I was using Apple podcasts before I switched to overcast, it was during the iOS9 debacle. I think with some of the podcast app broke certain things back then. Even when I saw that there was a video podcast episode in my podcast app, I kept postponing consuming it because it was on my phone and I didn't want to watch something on my phone. Yeah, I could have switched to back then itunes on my computer to watch there, but it just wasn't as optimized of a video experience. So I'm fine as a consumer watching my videos separately from my audio, but if they could be in an app that I could consume the same app on my computer, that might be different for me.
- [47:02]
E
Yeah, I'm audio first and mainly. And I been thinking myself how could I add value using a video? Maybe it's I'm doing a tea ceremony at the same time I'm doing podcast or something like that. But I have an Easter egg to you. Have you listened lately to POD News Weekly Review And James is saying very clear, we are not a video podcast. And what pops up on TrueFans FM James face and then Sam's phase. So they are testing it and it's fun to see them and see their studio and. And whatnot. But it could be then a thing for the promoter, the marketer people working with this because it's adding an extra layer. I'm not a video grapher and it's an ad another. So I want to then you know, division of labor saying then you should talk to this person or whatnot. Because I've watched some podcasts that have both videos and audio, for example new media show and sometimes and it could be true fans, it could be other things that okay, it works for some time but then it takes so much resources and whatnot. But then I could toggle to the audio only. So that's neat. I could have a small screen, I could have a big screen. So I see opportunities with it also. But it's additional work But I'm interested to following along in in the future see what's going on. If you are found in Google search engine YouTube, why not? But again, it's extra work and a process and so on. But it will be interesting how this will pan out in the future.
- [48:48]
D
Yeah.
- [48:49]
E
Have you been thinking about that, about hosting? Because somebody has to pay, right? YouTube, so called. It's when you're uploading something to YouTube, you don't pay so much. I know, but the hosting company, podcast hosting company will do that. Right. And they have to then charge the customer. And that have been very different. I think between the different hosts they are thinking where should, where should we. What. What price tag should we put on it?
- [49:19]
C
One thought I have about all of this is kind of the why does this matter? Since you listening are most likely not a podcaster yourself or I'm going to make that assumption that may you do some podcasting on the side, but primarily you're producing for other podcasters. So why does this talk about podcast apps matter? I think it should matter to you because you need to know how your clients audiences are consuming your clients products, the podcast episodes that you're producing for them. Think about the things like how you can make that better for your clients, adding the chapters, the transcripts, the images, ensuring the titles look good in the podcast apps. So as we talk about the different podcast apps, what's out there, what the experiences are like, what the audiences enjoy about these things. Think about how can you tie this into what you offer to your client, potentially maybe even an upsell to your client that you can say, hey, a lot of people like chapters and transcripts. Would you like me to start doing that for you? Then you can start to offer more. Or maybe it's something that, where you're increasing the value of what you offer. I think that's why this should be relevant to you as we're talking about consumption apps to you as a generally a producer of podcasts.
- [50:32]
A
All right, I want to thank everybody for coming in and sharing some really great thoughts on what we need to know about these podcast apps. Because there's a lot of cool features out there. Not every app, it's like every podcast, they're all different. Not every app is the same. So let's first start with Martin Lindiskog, who is from where again?
- [50:51]
E
Gutenberg, Sweden.
- [50:52]
A
Oh my gosh, it's what, 10:30 at night for you right now?
- [50:56]
E
Yes.
- [50:56]
A
Oh my goodness. All right, so tell us about Sweden and then tell us real quick about what your Services are that you provide to podcasters and where they can find you.
- [51:03]
E
Want to know about Sweden?
- [51:06]
A
What's the. Do you have a bird representative? Like, we have states and every state has their own bird.
- [51:11]
E
We don't have a turkey. No, I don't know. That was a good question. I have to think about that and post on the socials.
- [51:19]
A
All right, then tell us now where people can find you and what services they might want from you.
- [51:24]
E
Yeah, they could find me at Tea Party Media.
- [51:29]
A
Is that T E a T?
- [51:30]
E
A party like the beverage and party like the event and media media? Yeah. And they could find me then on TrueFans FM, search for my name, Martin Lindeskog, as you pronounce it, or Lyceum, the school of Aristotle. So there you have it. And I, as a new media advisor, get pieces of advice regarding podcasting. Podcasting 2.0 inspired to start a podcast because I have a T shirt here. You will not see that now, but, hey, the messenger. Messenger, yes. You have a message out there that you want to put out there as you have a book inside you, so I could help you with that.
- [52:11]
A
And since he has a messenger T shirt, I feel like I have to go to Dave Jackson next because you were in the documentary the Messengers.
- [52:17]
D
I was. And then we did the ultimate meta thing where we did a podcast about the making of the movie. About a podcast. I'm like, I think that's like five layers meta deep.
- [52:28]
E
It's like Seinfeld coffee table book.
- [52:30]
D
Yeah. I'm Dave Jackson. I am the head of podcasting at PodPage. So if you need a pretty website for your podcast, check it out@podpage.com and if you need help planning, launching, or growing your show, check me out@schoolofpodcasting.com and
- [52:44]
A
for sure, I think PodPage is a great thing for the producers in my audience to be able to recommend to their clients, because I think everybody needs
- [52:51]
D
a website and we have an affiliate program, so even better.
- [52:57]
A
Yes, sign up for the affiliate program. Recommend Your clients use PodPage. It's the simplest way to go, in my opinion. We've had Brandon on in the Podcast Editor Academy before, so. And, boy, you've grown leaps and bounds since then. So thanks for being here.
- [53:11]
D
Let's go.
- [53:12]
A
Daniel J. Lewis.
- [53:13]
E
Next.
- [53:13]
A
Daniel, what's the biggest thing on your plate right now that you need us to go and check out?
- [53:18]
C
Well, for producers, check out POD chapters, because a lot of these things that we talked about helping you to generate the transcripts and the chapters for the episodes. And I've built several features into Pod Chapters specifically for people who edit multiple podcasts, completely separate episodes and different series to make that easier for you. And I also do podgagement tracks, ratings, reviews, rankings, search ranking, networking opportunities, and I host the Audacity to podcast another podcast about podcasting.
- [53:48]
A
And I'll give a little testimonial about Pod Chapters because I used it this morning. Podchapters generated the chapters for me. I sent them to my client. There were 14 chapters. I said here's what they suggested and they tweak it. He removed two, the first two and then changed the verbiage on one so the other 12 or 11 they thought were perfect.
- [54:11]
C
Nice.
- [54:12]
A
Saved us a lot of time. Yep. And we'll be able to overwrite those in Apple and a couple other places so it's going to go to all the places. Gentrepic Salad with a side of fries Is it seasoned fries? Potato fries? Sweet potato fries? What is it your favorite?
- [54:26]
B
Any fries that you like? My particular favorite is either a well done steak fry or sweet potato fries.
- [54:33]
A
Okay.
- [54:34]
B
With that said, my website is asaladwithaside of fries.com all social media. I am Entrepic J E N N T R E P E C K I work with creators on strategy and content. It's the thing that we don't like to admit is holding us back.
- [54:52]
A
I love that. That's a great call to action right there. I'll have links to all this stuff in the show notes at podcast editorsmastermindshow.com 131. Thank you all for being here and joining me on this episode.