← Podcast Playbook: Helping Coaches & Advisors Convert Podcast Content into Clients
Podcast Playbook: Helping Coaches & Advisors Convert Podcast Content into Clients
We’re Settling the Most Polarizing & Controversial Podcasting Decisions
00:35:49
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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to the business of podcasting. Today you're going to get both Kyle and I, which means you're in for a fun one. We're business partners, and most of the time we see eye to eye, but not today. Today, we are going to be enemies. We're going to be debating some of the most talked about topics in podcasting and taking a hard stance on each once and for all. Think video versus audio seasons versus consistently weekly shows or solo episodes versus guest interviews. We're going to be talking about these topics and we're going to be giving our opinions. But there's a catch. We don't get to choose what our opinion is. We're going to be pulling topics from a hat, and we're going to be given the stance that we need to take, even if it's the exact opposite in what we actually believe. So buckle up. This has got to be a fun one. Kyle. What's up, man? Hey.
- [00:55]
B
It's not often that I get behind a microphone.
- [00:58]
A
I know. Glad to get your voice on the show a little bit. And I thought we'd have a fun episode today where we're going to be debating some of the hottest topics in podcasting. And here's how the game is going to work. I have five topics in front of me right now, and each topic has two stances. And whoever is choosing the topic or whoever's choosing the card, one of those stances has got to be circled, and that is the stance you're going to argue first, and then I'm going to get a couple of minutes to argue the second stance, and then we'll flip roles and we'll jump into the next one. So how about you kick things off here? Like I said, I got five topics in front of us right now. I'll let you pick number one, two, three, four, or five.
- [01:35]
B
Let's just start at the top end with number one.
- [01:38]
A
All right, number one is interview versus solo formats. And your opinion is going to be you shouldn't be interviewing guests on your podcast. And my opinion is podcasters should always consider guest interviews as a format. So once again, this is interview versus solo format. And you're going to be talking about why you shouldn't be interviewing guests on your podcast. What's your stance on that?
- [02:02]
B
All right, well, my stance on a lot of these is going to be pretty nuanced. I will say it. But if you're making me draw a hard line in the sand, Scheduling and coordinating with guests is a headache, man. It always slows down scheduling and production work. So it's just something that is going to just require a lot of extra effort on your end to make sure that things go smoothly. I can't tell you how many times I've invited someone on the show and then they showed up late or they just didn't have a microphone and they were in a wind tunnel or something like that. Like all these factors that I feel like you have to be really good at communicating in pre production to really make an effective guests shine in the light. And I think a lot of that has to do with not even just getting the technical issues sorted out, but making sure that they understand your audience and the content that you're speaking to. I feel like it's a little harder to control the narrative and ensure that what they're saying actually supports your brand. If you're trying to build the thought leadership, a podcast about thought leadership to support your business, it's easier to do that as you being the expert directly.
- [03:16]
A
Oh, man, I forgot I wasn't supposed to be shaking my head in agreeance here. I totally disagree. I think every podcaster should consider guest interviews as a format, and I think the biggest and the most obvious reason is the collaboration in the opportunity to introduce your podcast to that guest audience. You know, a guest typically brings an audience with them, and if they're nice enough to share the podcast with their audience, let it be their social media accounts or email or whatever. You're going to get exposed to a new audience and you never know where those collaborations or initial relationships are going to take you down the road. You might be invited to be a guest on their show or to talk at their mastermind, et cetera. I think it's just such a good idea to be inviting guests on your show so you're building relationships and creating good content. I think the other big thing too is you can't always fill the needs of your audience. Sometimes your audience is struggling to solve an issue in their life, but you don't have the expertise, you don't have the personal experience, but you can go and find a guest in order to fill that need for your audience. And then finally, I think having a conversation with another person just makes the entire podcast episode more dynamic and engaging versus monologue. You know, it's way easier to listen to two people talk for 30, 45, 50 minutes versus a solo monologue topic for 20 minutes. So that's why I believe that podcasters should always consider guest interviews as they format.
- [04:45]
B
You know, I. I totally agree with a lot of that. I actually think that having a guest format is necessary. I think I'm jumping ship here, Kyle.
- [04:55]
A
Jumping ship.
- [04:56]
B
Stick to your gun. I think it's necessary because I do feel like one of the biggest benefits of being a podcast host is using as a networking engineering, just the collaborations and those relationships that get established. They're so invaluable.
- [05:12]
A
Well, I'll jump ship too. I said I'll jump ship too. And I love solo content. As a creator, it's so much easier to make than guest interviews. It might feel easier at first to do guest interviews, but once you get comfortable creating solo content, I can crank out a solo episode in two, maybe three hours, one day versus a guest interview. I need to find a person that fits the topic that I'm trying to cover. I need to pitch them, I need to hear back from them. Then I need to coordinate with their calendar. Then I need to research them and prepare for the interview itself. Then they come on. Hopefully there's not a reschedule issue or a technical issue that comes in and then, you know, on the back end, from a post production standpoint, it is so much harder to control guest audio and video quality, how, how they speak to where the conversation's going, the circular talk, the low energy answers. Like you said, I mean, it's just I could do probably three solos for every one guest interview. So as a creator, I love solo content, but this is not the point of the. The conversation here. I want to make sure that we take a hard stance on it. But I think you and I both
- [06:18]
B
agree that I'll do that going forward. I love bringing the nuance to it because I do feel like a lot of what goes wrong with the interview format is solvable. Having a guest on your show and starting with a 10 minute who are you? Tell me about yourself question is an automatic. No. No. There's just some things that you have to get right for both formats in order for them to work effectively for your show.
- [06:42]
A
Amen to that one. All right, can I pick number two?
- [06:45]
B
Sure thing.
- [06:46]
A
All right, I'm going to actually, I'm going to mix it up. I'll go number four, which is seasons versus weekly publishing. So this is maybe eight episodes. Then you might take a four week break and then you have a season two versus consistent episodes week over week over week. And I am going to be arguing. Dang it all podcasters should follow a seasonal format with breaks. And Kyle, you will be arguing. Weekly episodes are the only way to build a consistent audience. I'll start here First. All right, so I think all podcasters should follow a seasonal format because the seasonality approach naturally builds in breaks and helps you avoid burnouts. And so many podcasters, especially podcasters that are business owners, struggle with burning out on creating content. And if you can effectively plan your seasons, you know, you're gonna have a two or four or six week gap in between seasons. You're gonna allow yourself to reset, get refreshed again, and get excited about the next season. And with that in mind, yeah, you'll
- [07:48]
B
take a nice long six month hiatus. Chilling at the beach.
- [07:53]
A
God, Kyle, come on, let me argue my size. You know? You know, I have a strong opinion on this one, and I'm not arguing it right now. But yes, Also, I love the season approach because it gives you an opportunity to stop, pause, and look back on the season that you just did and then strategically plan for the next season forward. It also gives an interesting perspective for your listeners if you put together a cohesive series. Like, what would happen if our show had seasons? Like, would season one just be about growing your show and then season two be about how to create better content, and season three be how to integrate your podcast with your business that would give such a cohesive listening experience for someone that really wanted to dive deep into a topic over the next eight weeks. And then finally, I think as a creator, it's easier to batch, record, and market as a season approach. You don't have to be thinking about a what's gotta be next next week, but you can think about it in maybe an eight episode run. Like, how am I gonna approach these next eight episodes? How could I maybe effectively batch, record and edit those episodes? And then how can I market that as a whole season as like a collective group of eight episodes versus just one standalone episode at a time? I'll give you your floor now. So once again, you're gonna be arguing. Weekly episodes are the only way to build a consistent audience. What do you got for me?
- [09:15]
B
Oh, I mean, that word consistency right there is super important. It doesn't need to necessarily be a weekly publishing cadence. You know, it could be bi weekly, it could be monthly. But I do think sticking to some cadence there builds this audience habit. You know, listeners expect consistency, and when they have consistency, it's hard for them to forget about you. You know, you take a seasonal break, and three months from now, like, I'm no longer listening to your podcast and growing a true fan base. Like, I am ready to listen to the next episode every single week with some of my favorite shows and if they weren't to publish for three months, I would be kind of bummed as a fan of the show. And you never know if I'll move on and find a new show that I like even more. The algorithms as well probably reward consistency. I think they're definitely confusing conundrum and each one of them is different. I'm not pretending to be an expert by any means here, but I could argue that going with a weekly cadence is going to be a little bit more favorable in terms of, you know, charting and, and different things like that. And then, you know, just momentum, I feel like stays really high when you're consistently publishing. You talked about if you're taking a seasonal break, then you might be able to like, think about it in terms of like this season you're focusing on this, this next season you're focusing on that, and the season after you're focusing on something else. But I still feel like you can build out those same principles while also having the adaptability to react to things that are happening now and whatever market you're in by publishing on a weekly patents without having to like reset every season.
- [10:54]
A
Fair. It's gotta be hard to argue that one for me.
- [10:57]
B
All right, let's go to your jumping ship now.
- [11:00]
A
Dude, you knew I jumped ship as soon as I got that opinion there. But we can talk about that one at the end here. Let's move on to debate number three. What would you like number two? Number three or number five?
- [11:11]
B
Give me five right back.
- [11:14]
A
All right, here's. Here's the heavy one. Video first versus audio. All right, so you will be. You will be arguing podcasts should be audio only. Video is a waste of time. And I will be arguing you shouldn't be recording a podcast without video. So I'll let you kick this one out. Start this one. Podcast should only be audio only. Why do you think that is true?
- [11:38]
B
When was the last time that you listened to a podcast? Was it yesterday? Was it sometime this week?
- [11:45]
A
Yeah, this morning.
- [11:47]
B
When? What were you doing?
- [11:48]
A
I was running.
- [11:50]
B
Were you washing it while you were running?
- [11:51]
A
I wasn't.
- [11:54]
B
I wonder how many people actually consume video podcast. When audio podcasts are available, your listeners might consume your podcast still even if it's just an audio format. Point number two, it adds so much complexity, not even into the production process and like understanding how to use camera equipment, the time that goes into that, the cost that go into that, but also the post production process with editing. I don't know too many of our clients that are really Technical editors that good high quality video requires. Also, just being on camera is a very difficult. It requires a different subset of skills. It can honestly make you come off a little unnatural. You know those third set of eyes that are staring into your soul when a video camera, that flashing red light, it can really get some people. It really gets me back to the, the complexity too. I, I do feel like that added cost and time just is going to make so many subsequent decisions. And your podcast flounder a bit. I feel like we can quickly move on with promoting an episode if it's audio, through a newsletter or a blog or just a written post on social media. It doesn't necessarily have to be that you're just crushing on video content to push things out in the algorithm. There's a ton of huge audio shows that have never done video that have still grown organically through that.
- [13:27]
A
All right, So I firmly believe that you shouldn't be recording a podcast without video. And I think the big and the most obvious reason for that is that we are in a day, an age of video first content. And restricting yourself to audio only and not recording video really limits some of limits most of the opportunity for discoverability through short form content like reels and shorts and clips. You're really handcuffing yourself if you're not tapping into what most of the social media algorithms are pushing and now some of the long form players like YouTube and Spotify are pushing. So if you're not recording video, you're essentially eliminating the opportunity to pursue those avenues of growth and discoverability. I also firmly believe that audiences now expect video. Many people are looking for video and even if they're not always watching your podcast, on occasion they do want to, they do want to watch your podcast. As a coach, one of the biggest things that you're going to get from publishing video and allowing your audience to see you is you're going to build trust and connection faster. Your listeners are going to get the opportunity to see your face, your body language and your authenticity via video. So this is gonna allow you, like I said, to deepen the trust and the authority that you have with your audience. And finally, I'll put out like, why not? Like, we're on a platform right now that allows us to record both video and audio. Why not go ahead and record the video and use the video too?
- [15:04]
B
Yeah, I like what you said about that parasocial connection. I do feel like if you're trying to sell something to someone, having seen that person is really important.
- [15:16]
A
You know how I fall on this one too. Of course, this one is probably the most nuanced one on our list here because I think someone should be very intentional about audio only or video first podcasting. I do firmly believe most of the things that I said in my debate right there. And I do think you're probably handcuffing yourself or eliminating channels of discoverability. But I don't always think that's a bad approach, especially for newer podcasters that haven't quite mastered the audio format. Like you were saying, like, the biggest downside is the complexity and the cost that is going to be added to a video first podcast. The hardware that you're going to have to invest in to get quality video is going to be substantially higher than what you're going to need for just an audio only podcast. The complexity of the editing, if you're doing it on your own and not even editing file management. I know you and I know this firsthand, like upload download files. Having storage space for video files versus audio is just crazy. So I do think it's worth considering an audio only approach until you master being audio only and then maybe taking a step into video and, or potentially even just experimenting with video and seeing if you have returns. Because I know so many people who jump into video who are paying video editors who have software and hardware cost invested into video, and then I look at their YouTube channel and they have 20 views on their YouTube video. Not to say that, hey, who knows when a video might go viral and how much value even those 20 views are adding currently to their content. But is it worth four or five times the cost? That is something that I think somebody should consider before jumping straight into a video first podcast.
- [17:05]
B
Yeah, this is something that we'll probably record at a later day, but I feel like there's almost a podcaster's order of operations that's super important to work yourself down on the checklist and taking a step back and focusing on the content and really honing in how you're speaking to who you're speaking to is going to give you way more dividends and, and the short term than immediately launching with a podcast on video where you're overwhelmed and thinking so much of the technical issues that run up with that. And it kind of is a little distracting to a certain degree.
- [17:38]
A
Yeah, definitely. Why optimize for video if you haven't optimized the content first? And I think once again that's, yeah, the, the big debate there. And I know I, I counter argued myself, but I, I knew this One was going to be a big topic and our list here and something that I think is well worth thought on both sides. And like I said, very easy for me to probably argue either side of the coin, but this is a very different conversation depending on who the creator is.
- [18:02]
B
Yeah. And we have a small sample size of the shows that we work on with the largest show that we work on is an audio only show. So just to dispel that it's not possible to grow your show without video is clearly not true.
- [18:16]
A
Yeah, definitely. All right, I'm going to go ahead. We have number two or number three left on the table here. I'm going to go ahead and go number two, which is big guest or niche guest. So as a interview based show, should you be pitching for the biggest guest or should you be looking for some niche guest in your audience? And I am going to be arguing focus on your niche guest if you want your podcast to succeed. And Kyle, you'll be arguing go after big name guest if you want your podcast to succeed. So I'll kick things off here first with why I think you should have niche guest on your show. I recently ran a poll on LinkedIn and I asked whenever you give a new show a chance, why did you try that new show? And there were two of four answers there. One was there was a guest, a well known guest that you knew. And number two was the topic was relevant. And by far most people picked the topic was relevant for me versus I think of the four options there, there were two other things. I can't remember exactly what they were off the top of my head, but I think a big name guest or a well known name guest was number three out of those four choices. I do think leading with the content and relevancy of a topic is a much stronger approach than a big name guest. Back in 2019, 2020 when, when podcasting was becoming very popular and so many people were getting into the space from a podcast guesting standpoint and we got to listen to Brene Brown for the first time or the Rock for the first time. Like it was really cool to hear some of these guests talk. But now five, you know, fast forward five years later, these big name podcast guests are all over the place now. And I'm not showing up or going seeking out a show now for, for this big name guest. I'm showing up or finding show because I want to learn about something very specific or I need help solving a very specific problem. So if you focus on a niche guest that is very good at solving your ideal listeners problem. I think you're going to get way more ROI from your guest interviews than if you were just going for the biggest names in the space. I also believe that one of your arguments might be the reach that a big name guest might be able to provide your show. But I have found time after time after time, some of the biggest names when I have them on never share the show versus when I have a niche guest that maybe has a smaller audience, they are more willing to share, promote, and collaborate with me. So I find that the niche guests are probably the better collaborators overall, and they're the ones that are actually putting forward the effort to share and help promote the episode.
- [20:55]
B
I want to plant the white flag.
- [20:59]
A
Come on, Kyle, you got, you got some counter arguments.
- [21:02]
B
I'll never argue against going niche piece for your show, but my counter arguments would be, you know, bringing on a large name by association just creates authority. Tell me that Joe Rogan wants to go on, on this show and we don't have him on like one. 10 out of 10 times we're bringing them on, it doesn't even matter. And when done correctly, thinking about the communication with the guest and what they're looking for, because clearly they're coming on your show because it can be a win, win, win for, you know, the audience, for us and for them. So how do we position ourselves to make sure that we deliver on that value? So they do share or they're invested in the podcast. So I do think there is like a potential for more virality, you know, with the clips, if the guest says something nuanced or interesting. A lot more people would care about Joe Rogan saying something off kilter than some random Joe Schmo. Um, I do feel like the, the big guest are also. They're, they're big for a reason. They're probably very really good at content creation. They've grown an audience because they know how to speak to them. Like there should be something that they're able to deliver in terms of value for your podcast. And yeah, I would assume that it could bring in some major spikes and downloads if done correctly. That's about all I can argue with that.
- [22:25]
A
I think those are all fair arguments, man. I think even done right, you don't even need a big name guest to promote your episode. You can just double down on promoting that episode yourself and putting a well known face and a clip or, you know, using a well known guest name and the podcast title might drive just as much traffic as a niche guest that promotes to their own audience. So I, I think there's a fair leg to stand on. And yes, if Joe Rogan reached out to me and wanted to come on the show, I would invite him on the show no matter what he wanted to talk about.
- [23:00]
B
Sold yourself right there.
- [23:02]
A
All right, Kyle, I got the last debate topic for you right now, which honestly kind of goes hand in hand with what we might what we were just talking about here. And that's niche podcast versus broad topic podcast. And Kyle, your opinion on this is that every podcast should be niche, and my opinion on this is the best podcast abroad. So lay it on me. Why should every podcast be niche?
- [23:28]
B
So rather than guesting, we're talking about the content here. And I do feel like clarity wins attention. People stop and listen when they think like this is for me. Generalists are everywhere and specialists are remembered. If your content doesn't resonate immediately, it's forgettable and it will be ignored. And so with that, I think a lot of the algorithms do reward this specialization. It honestly creates like little clusters and demographics and it's easier for them to establish who you're speaking to and who they should push your content out to. One thing that I think you'll argue against this is that niching kind of funnels you into this permanent, undersized group of people you're serving. But I actually find that what I've seen with a lot of our shows that start with a niche audience, it's kind of like an on ramp, so like known for one thing. And then as you build authority, it starts to expand naturally and it's actually easier to grow over time because if you're speaking to everyone, then you're speaking to no one. And you just have to start somewhere when it comes to growing your content.
- [24:33]
A
I think those are fair points. But I think the best podcast are broad podcast. We were recently talking about Joe Rogan. What's Joe Rogan's niche? Does he have a niche like looking at the topics that he covers, the guests that he has on? He is so broad, even every episode itself has multiple niches and topics with inside of it. I mean, these three hour episodes can range from the how someone grew up and were raised all the way to political ideologies to crazy that he saw on the Internet. Like it is, it's all over the place, but people love it. And he's the number one podcaster for a reason. And these broad podcasts allow you to attract a wider listener base. And if I say my show is about a very specific or certain person and that person doesn't fit into that niche. Then I immediately eliminated someone potentially listening to my podcast because I niched too far in. So I think having a broader show is gotta give you a longer term potential for growth. I also think as a creator it doesn't box you into one theme. You don't burn yourself out talking about one specific topic. It allows you to follow trends, explore new ideas, keep things fresh on your podcast, even invite people on. That wouldn't necessarily fit into a niche podcast, but would you would be really excited to talk to and build a relationship with. And it makes sense because you have a broader podcast. A broader podcast and their topics fit into that broader podcast versus your niche podcast.
- [26:00]
B
I'm going to clip all these out by by the way, just for misinformation put out on our social media accounts. Justin truly believes that having a broad podcast is good for niche professional service providers.
- [26:16]
A
Please don't do that. Please don't do that. If anyone listens to this whole podcast in like small increments, they might totally misunderstand my approach. And coaching around podcasting, this one would was probably one of the harder ones for me to make a case for. I loved what you said about a niche podcast is an on ramp to maybe a broader podcast in the future. Like as you gain authority in one space or become an expert in one space, you can slowly expand like me and you. Being the podcast experts eventually might lead us to being the marketing experts and we'll be able to talk on a little bit further topics inside of our niche around content marketing. And then content marketing might grow into building or growing a successful business. Like there is this kind of natural expansion of your content as you become more well versed in in other areas and you've already gained a loyal set of listeners on one specific expertise and you and I see this all the time. It is just way easier to grow niche podcast than broad podcast, especially when you're starting out. There are very few things that I really agree with on on my counter arguments to why you should have a broad show. Unless you're truly podcasting to have fun and you don't want to box yourself in, you have a hobby around your podcast, then go for it. Make your podcast as broad as you want. But if you're a service based person provider, the more niche the better because you're going to start attracting what is got to be an ideal listener versus not attracting anybody.
- [27:40]
B
Yeah. And the idea of that is like while it might sound that at that stage you help people grow their business. You're serving a broad audience. You're actually serving an even more focused audience because you're not the person that helps people grow their businesses. You're the person that helps people grow their businesses through content marketing and podcasting especially. So you're incorporating your niche into serving that broader audience, which is actually even more niche.
- [28:09]
A
Yeah, definitely. All right, Kyle's we're wrapping up this debate. This was really fun. I like this, this format, so we might do some future ones. So of course, if you want to submit some more debate topics for Kyle and I, you can always email me@justinimplepodstudios.com or just leave a comment if you're on Spotify or YouTube right now. And we'll put it up for a round two debate here. But I'd love to close out the conversation and ask you which one of these topics was the hardest for you to argue? Like, which one did you probably disagree with the most that you had to make a case for?
- [28:45]
B
Yeah, next time we'll bring somebody on the show, a guest on the show. If we ever land Joe Rogan, this will be our concept. We'll have him be the judge of who wins the debate and add in their opinion and nuance to dude, honestly, I feel like I got the best role. I don't think I'm as quite as good of a debater as you are, but I do feel like I had some layoffs in there. The hardest one that I struggled with was interviewing versus soloing. I do feel like both can be incorporated into a podcast and both should be incorporated into a podcast. I wouldn't rely solely on one or the other. I feel like having a great interview and network based show is important for establishing yourself in your industry and collaborating and growing through other people's audience. But I do feel like you need to do solo episodes as a consultant or coach in order to really position yourself and your brand and speak directly more specifically to the problems that your audience, you know, is struggling with. And they want to get your opinions at the end of the day. And even if I were to do an interview based show, like, I would constantly be chiming in with my own opinions rather than just like letting the spotlight on my guest. And there's a certain way to go about that too. Like if you have an interview with someone, don't lead off with the question. Tell me about yourself. Get into the weeds right away. Start with a question that's like, they're going to know exactly who you're speaking to tee them up with an introduction that's like, this is what my podcast is for. Like, there's a certain way to go around that that works really, really well.
- [30:26]
A
Yeah. Looking back at the list, you did get the layups. I feel like I think our general approach and philosophy leaned more towards your opinions. I think probably the hardest one for me to argue that probably had the least amount of nuance that I could easily flip the script on was seasons versus weekly publishing. I was debating seasons. You know, I absolutely hate seasons. I think there is a way to take breaks around podcast content creation that still allow you to stay consistent. We're in the holiday seasons right now. As we're recording this, it's a great idea to be thinking about the last two weeks of the year and how could you add in maybe some. I don't want to call it. Actually, I will. I'll call it low effort content. But low effort content doesn't. Doesn't necessarily mean low value content either. It could be looking back at your back catalog one of your earlier episodes that gained a lot of traction with some of your early listeners in repurposing that as a podcast episode for one of those weeks, or recycling one of your podcast guest appearances, or doing a very short episode if you tend to do longer episodes. I think there's an opportunity for you to like, naturally build a break into your content creation process by being forward thinking that doesn't require you to take seasons. And I loved your counter argument whenever I said that seasons allow this, like, better listening experience for listeners. And you just turned around and said, well, you can pretty much do the seasons approach if you want. Like every single month, you can kind of flip the theme without you necessarily taking two, four, six weeks off. And the biggest reason why I think you shouldn't approach podcasting as seasons, as anytime you take a break from podcasting, you lose momentum not only with the algorithms, but with yourself. And I have seen so many podcasts, I've clicked on their feed. Season one, the very last episode is season one's concluding. We'll see you in season two. And that was two, three years ago. Yeah, that was like three years ago. And they never came back to it. They lost the momentum of creating content. And that's a really hard thing to get back on the train, especially if you're in growth mode with your podcast. Maybe you're not seeing the ROI early on. Like you just gotta consistently show up. You know, our biggest show within our client base right now is he didn't find traction until about what, two, maybe two and a half years into his podcasting journey. And he lost a lot of that traction too, because he wasn't consistent. Once he got consistent, within 12 months, 18 months, we started to see the growth. And then at that 18 month mark, or about two years in hockey stick, growth has been happening for him now. So I think consistency is, is probably the one that I wanted to argue for the most and in the season approach is there's very few times that I find it successful in the service based business provider space.
- [33:10]
B
Yeah, I feel like podcasting is a skill and with any skill that requires discipline and just continual improvement. And that's why, you know, showing up on a consistent basis is so important. I will say, though, I do feel that the argument against it is that a lot of people feel this pressure to push out episodes without necessarily thinking about how to promote the episodes. So if you've published an episode, you've only done half the work for the podcast. There's so much ROI that comes from promotion. So to take a step back and maybe slow down is something that I would totally suggest to a lot of people, especially early on, as they're still getting their systems in place with how to take a podcast episode from start to finish, not only just from the recording a production process, but how do I get that in front of our audience? Because as we know, I think podcasts are very hard to grow organically and there has to be some kind of marketing strategy behind how to take that podcast and get that in front of the right people.
- [34:15]
A
Very true. And look, there's some nuance in the season versus weekly publishing, which I thought would be one of the more clearer debates in this. And I think that's really the point that you and I are hoping to drive home in all of this, is that each one of these debates, each one of these sides does have nuance. And there's not always a black and white answer for a podcaster. I think it is worth taking a step back and understanding the pros and the cons of each approach and then intentionally deciding based on those pros and cons what you want to do. It's not about following a formula. There's no you have to be video or else you're not going to have a successful podcast or you got to only you only need to be pitching big name guests versus niche guest. We have seen all of these opinions and strategies work well if done right. So I think it is worth being deliberate about these decisions, tracking your results and not being afraid to pivot or try something new if it's not working for you. If you're 50 episodes into video first and you're just burning through money and you're not getting ROI from it, try three months of audio only and see if you still get the same ROI with way less effort, with way less money involved. With like, there are things that are worth trying and experimenting as a podcaster, because that's how you're gonna get better and perform over time. So I appreciate you guys listening to this episode. This one was a really fun one. I always a blast whenever I get to have Kyle on these calls too. So feel free. Reach out to us anytime. That's Kyle at SimplePod Studios or Justin at SimplePod Studios. Or go find us on on LinkedIn or Instagram. Thanks again for listening and we'll catch you guys in the next one.