← Podcasting Made Simple
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- [00:00]
A
Hey, Alex here. Before we get into today's episode, I want to share some really exciting news with you. We just launched a podcast network. If you go to podmatch.comnetwork, you can take a look at all the shows and categories that are involved. And if you'd like to have your show listed in the network, you can press the Join Network button at the top. I look forward to seeing your application, and I hope you enjoy some of the shows there. And now let's get into today's episode. You're listening to Podcasting Made Simple. Hey, everyone, Alex Sanfilipo here, host of Podcasting Made Simple. And I'm joined by my friend Alvin Brook, who is head of marketing@buzzsprout.com Albin, welcome. So glad you're here, man.
- [00:36]
B
Thanks, Alex. I appreciate you having me.
- [00:38]
A
Yeah, listen, last time we hung out, we were going to get air quotes here, quick lunch together, and I think we end up spending two hours sitting there together. Basically, what got us to leave was the fact it was about to storm. And so I'm hoping we can figure how to wrap up a conversation a little quicker than that. Although I had a blast, so. So we'll see what we can do today.
- [00:54]
B
All right, sounds good. We've got no. No rain pressure today.
- [00:58]
A
Hopefully not. Are you not using your outdoor studio today, man? What's going on?
- [01:01]
B
This is what. This would actually be like, a huge unlock for me if I could be outside working with a bunch of electrical stuff on my desk. That would be the setup.
- [01:10]
A
Next time we record together, I'd like to see that setup done. All right.
- [01:13]
B
All right, let's do it.
- [01:14]
A
All right, everybody. So what we're going to talk about today is the intro and outro of your podcast. And listen, this. This relates to both guest and host because both sides have some impact on how good the start and end of an episode is.
- [01:26]
B
And.
- [01:26]
A
And basically what we're looking to do is help build more engaging content. And there's a reason for this. Actually. I'm going to read two different reports that I pulled. This was an NPR report. They did this on thousands of shows, but they found that 35% of listeners drop off within the first five minutes of a podcast episode. And then bumper and Pacific Content did a report that showed 24% of people drop off when an episode begins wrapping up near the end of it. Not like the last few seconds, but, like, minutes. And the takeaway here is that, like, again, that's 35% at the start, 24% at the end. Like, that's a lot, right? When you really think about it, that is a lot. And so what we want to talk about today is how to start and end our episodes better because it's needed, right? And so I do want to give a call out to hosts real quick here before we get into it. And again, this will be valuable for both guests and host because everyone, everyone has a role to play in this. But host, I encourage you look at your own data. The way you do this is if like, like me, I use Buzzsprout. Whoever your hosting provider is, go to your hosting provider dashboard and see. See if you get more listens from Apple or from Spotify, depending on which one it is. Log into that specific dashboard and then look at your completion slash, consumption rate and listen. I know this sounds super techy and I'm me and Alvin were talking before Hit Record. I'm not the techie guy, but if you just go to any search engine or AI, you can ask how to find this information. What you're looking for is how many people are dropping off at the beginning and how many people are dropping off at the end. This will help you understand where you might have a quality issue and where you might be able to improve it to get people to actually stay around longer. And the reason this matters is because I did an episode about this. Actually, it was called the Rise of the Podcasting Algorithm. And if you go to podmatch.com ep367, you can listen to that episode. Go do that on your own time after this, of course. But I talked about how what's going to matter in the future for podcast episodes to get discovered is how long people stay listening, similar to how social media works. Right? How much time are you spending looking at that photo, watching that video, reading that post that determines who's going to see it. And so that's why this matters is you want to get this really right so that you can get recommended in the foreseeable future with your podcast episode. Again, guest, you want your episode to have really good retention so once again, the algorithm can start to, to be able to suggest it. So, Albin, I shared a lot there. You're apparently the guest on here today. So any gaps to fill in before we kind of get into it when
- [03:37]
B
you're looking at that data. So when you log into Apple Podcast Connect or the Spotify for Creators Dashboard, what I'm looking for is which episodes keep people, which ones have the little drop off. And then I go and listen to those intros to Figure out what was different. You can't compare your numbers to other podcasts, which is totally different audiences, totally different marketing streams you want to look at. How can I improve. And so my recommendation at the end of it is maybe you've taken notes from this conversation. You've got two or three things you want to try. Try a radically different intro and then go look versus your old intros or the new one and see does it seem like there's things that are different and then we're just going to iterate from there. But the. A good intro, I mean, it's a. It's a contract with the listeners. It's a message of why they should continue to listen. And I'm sure we'll talk about each of these elements, but people need to hear relatively quickly. Some reason. I got hooked by the title and the artwork and everything else that was there, and I clicked. And we need to very quickly convince them you're in the right place. This is worth clicking Play, plugging it into CarPlay, and then just locking in for an hour. So that intro is really critical.
- [05:02]
A
Yeah, that's really good advice, by the way. Man, I love the notion of what you just shared, which is basically be creative. Like, be willing to try something different to see what works. And I think at the end of the day, like, podcasting at its core is just. It's a creative endeavor as a host or as a guest, like, try something right, like get out there. And I, I like that. I think that really, for me, that's inspiring to hear. It kind of gives me the flexibility to actually want to do something different on my end. But I digress for now, real quick. High level, Like, I think it'd be good for us just to go through some things maybe that we, we just straight up know or not working. Like, yes, be creative, but like, hey, here's a few things that we know are not working. The one that I'll say, and I could be wrong on this, but from what I can see, really long, I guess just segments of music at the beginning of a podcast. Like, I was listening to one the other day and the first 45 seconds were a song being played. And it's like that on every episode, but no one says anything. There's nothing. And then after 45 seconds, it starts to me, I didn't show up to listen to music. I'm not trying to be offensive to anyone who might have this as your show. And listen, if you're the guest, this is the type of thing you want to look out for. Right? Like, you can't control this necessarily, but you can listen to a show before you go on to say, okay, that doesn't seem very engaging. Right? But to me, that's one of the things. Albin, I don't know if you have anything else that you've just seen that you're like, straight up, this doesn't seem to really work or be engaging anymore.
- [06:11]
B
I think music, if you're going to do it three to seven seconds. We're trying to be really tight. Music sets the tone of the show, but it's not what people are showing up for. I think that's really good. Another. I mean, if we're going to start with things we don't like, there's times where I use the intro to clear my own anxiety, and that is you jump in. Hey, I just want to let everyone know we recorded this on Tuesday. I'm releasing it on Friday, so you might even be listening to on a Saturday. And that means stuff has changed a little bit, I think. I don't know. We'll find out. By the way, the audio quality wasn't very good and so I had to cut it a bit. You'll probably hear that. Do you think the episode's good or not? If it's good, release it and you don't need to tell the whole story about the episode. If stuff changed and the episode's no longer valuable, or the audio is so bad it wasn't valuable then. I mean, you're either. I say just put it out there or don't, but starting the episode with a bunch of your own insecurities doesn't convince the listener. I want to stick around. It convinces the listener, hey, I know you already started this, but I'm just gonna plant the seed. There's a bunch of stuff that's wrong with it, so you probably don't even wanna listen anyway. Like, it's not gonna make the episode better. Makes the episode worse and makes the podcast worse. Because now they know you're not willing to kill a bad episode.
- [07:35]
A
That's a good point, actually. Just the. The date thing alone. I hear that a lot, like, episodes start off with, hey, it's Friday, June 22nd. And by the way, it's not when we're recording this, but it's just a date that came to my mind. But the point is, like, okay, well, if this is evergreen, like, I've probably never listened to a podcast a day. It's come out. Like I always call myself. I'm a two week behind type of guy. So, like, if you mention me in your podcast two weeks later, I'm like, hey, thank you so much. That's when I heard it. Right? And so the date, like, when it's supposed to be evergreen, like, why reference it and what value does it add to know when you hit record? And to your point, it's one of those things where you can kind of get some of your. Some of the butterflies out. And I get it. I still, I mean, I'm hundreds of episodes in. I still get nervous when I hit record. And that's why, like, even when Alb and I first started talking, I hit record minutes before we started because I need to start getting some of that out myself. Anyway, I think that's a. That's a really good point. Another one that I see happen a lot. This is kind of more on the guest side of things. It's when the host reads a super long guest bio, and typically that's provided by the guest. Like, man, your bio. Today I was like, hey, this is Albin, head of marketing for Bussprout.com like, that was your intro. I probably could have drawn that out five minutes because you've. You're extremely accomplished. But that'll just come out in the content. But when you start off a show that's basically reading somebody's resume, man, that my eyes glaze over. I'm like, my goodness. I don't. No offense, but I don't care about your 15 books. What are we talking about today? You know, like, right. I don't know.
- [08:53]
B
Yeah. Then you sometimes will open the door by asking the guest, anything else I missed? Which. What message you just send. You sent the message, I'm not fully prepared. I might not know your bio. And two, you're inviting the guest to tell you their life story. We all love our own life story, and so we would love to go and just like jump into a ton of detail about it. Most people, like, don't really want. Most of your audience doesn't really want to listen to the life story. So my recommendation is if we're doing a guest intro, we're shooting again for like 20, maybe 30 seconds max, give a couple points, they're relevant to the conversation. These are proof points. This is somebody worth listening to. Here's why I like them. And let's get into the episode quickly.
- [09:40]
A
Yeah, listen, guests rewrite your bio is the takeaway here. And we'll talk about that a little bit more later as well. And also when you get asked to fill in the Gaps, right? Of like, did I miss anything? Just keep it really brief. Even no is acceptable. Like, no, I'm just excited to be here. Like, that's totally acceptable because then you can get into the good stuff. So one mindset shift I have here that I had when I was taking notes for today, Albin, was this, that the intro and, and the outro and like the guest buy all that stuff, that's actually for us. It's not really for our listeners. And I think that's tough for people to hear because like the reality is like a very polished intro. People aren't necessarily interested in hearing that. Like they, they're there for whatever the title of the episode says. It's about like they're not there to listen to your 30 second jingle or anything like that. And it's okay. The podcast is ours as the guest. It's, it's, it's your legacy that you're leaving. Right. So it is partially us, but we need to keep that in mind. There's a reason all the streaming services, when you're watching a TV show, have a skip the intro button now, because that's not for you, that's for the producers and the actors, you know, like, that's not what you came for. And so for, for all of us, I think we just have to think about like, well, what's actually for the listener here. And with that said, it's, it's a good time to transition now, Alvin, into what actually works. So talking about intros, we'll start with talking about what works for podcast hosts and we'll get into podcast guests. There's so many different things out there, man. I went through six different random shows, well, I shouldn't say random. Some really well known shows to see like what they did and everyone does something different, which once again speaks to the creativity of it. But have you seen anything that seems like ideal in today's world or that's working really well on your end?
- [11:09]
B
I really love shows that start with a cold open. And the cold open, when done best is I'm going to go find like a few seconds of one of the best takeaways that raises a question in the listener's mind, like, oh, there's something good here that's enticing. And then we get that three second jingle or seven seconds show intro guest. And so you've already hear like, there's something really good here that I'm going to want to listen to before you're asked to commit the one to two minutes of intro and kind of like warming up to the guest. So I'm a big fan of the cold open.
- [11:50]
A
You know, I'm thinking cold open. Is that the same thing of like, like one of the shows I looked at was Diary of a CEO Stephen Barlett. Would you consider that that's not like a cold intro, that's like a teaser intro. Have you seen that before?
- [12:01]
B
Both formats work. So you can do the teaser, which a lot, a lot of the YouTube podcasts do this.
- [12:09]
A
Joe Rogan has a teaser then right is more of that.
- [12:12]
B
And they do like five little quick hits of like, oh, here's what's coming up in the episode. I think that has grown out of the world of YouTube that they know we've got to hook you and we've got to hook you quick. And so they show you five quick things. You go, oh, this seems cool. And you stick around. Cold open is probably closer to what you would get on SNL where you're watching TV and all of a sudden you're in a skit. And they have not said, hey, it's snl. Here's the cast. They haven't done the song, they're not introducing the musical guest. None of that. You're in a skit immediately. And so when you're in the skit immediately, you are like, oh, this is funny. I'm laughing. Oh, this is SNL. Now you're asked to watch this kind of boring 45 seconds of introducing everybody. You're actually willing to do it because you, you've remembered how funny the show can be.
- [13:04]
A
Well said, man. Thanks for kind of separating those two. In my mind, I'm still like working on the lingo here. Back to Diary CEO. I told my wife, I'm like, hey, if you watch the intro to one of these episodes, I'm like, you would probably get hooked. And she's like, no, I'm not really like that. I found a topic that she'd be interested in and she watched it and then it was like a three hour episode. And she was like, over the next week, I watched the three hour episode, you know, like. But I don't know if anyone does as good of a job as that Diary CEO team when it comes to actually building something that's like, wait, I gotta hear all these things that were just kind of referenced here, right? But at the same time to that cold open, I actually prefer that. I always joke about the no Agenda show with Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak. I always tell people, if you listen to One minute of that show. You'll listen to the whole hour and it's because they just open it up cold and it's typically just like these guys shooting the breeze, it seems like. But something about it is done so tactfully that you're like, I'm here to hang. Right? Like, I'm going to hang with these guys for a little bit.
- [13:55]
B
And you don't have to do that. That doesn't have to be recorded in the beginning. You can start by recording by starting off with, oh, hey, today I'm going to be with this guest. Here's the show. And you start the episode and then later on you notice, you know, there's this three segment clip that kind of stands alone and I really love it. So I'm gonna take that, move it to the front. And so there's something really good right off the bat. Again, I like to think of it as the intro is a contract with your listener. We've convinced them to listen because a friend sent them the episode. They saw the title and it sounds good. They saw more about the podcast, Something got them to click. And very quickly I want to tell them, if you listen to this whole episode, here's what you're going to get in the beginning. If you are this far in this episode right now, hopefully you got the contract. We will teach you everything we know about intros and outros. So by the end of this episode, you will feel comfortable, that you'll feel empowered to make your intros better so that retention stays high.
- [14:59]
A
That's good, man.
- [14:59]
B
And you want to have that in the beginning. So people go, okay, so when things slow down, I'm going to stick through it because I know that this is going to get paid off by the end.
- [15:09]
A
Then you better deliver on that promise, right?
- [15:11]
B
Yeah, you have to. Making promises is one thing. You do have to deliver on the promise, right?
- [15:17]
A
So what else have you guys tried with your podcast, which when I did the first version of the intro by mistake, I said I was the host of Buzzcast, which is actually your show. So sorry about that. But what have you guys tried there that you've seen work? Cause you all kind of open with bit. You guys do a cold open, basically, is what you do, right?
- [15:32]
B
We do a cold open, very short music, and then we do set in one sentence. Here's what the show is to remind people. So we'll say, welcome back to Buzzcast the show for everything you know, to know about podcasting from the people at Buzz Brow. And we're trying to tell you, who you are if you're in the audience, who we are, what we're trying to do with the show, and we move on. And so we don't. We don't want to give like this whole concept every time. I think in the past, we either skipped that segment, which I don't think was helpful, or we made that segment really long. Now, one sentence. What's the promise of this show? Why should people listen? And hopefully we're selecting the right audience.
- [16:19]
A
It's good, man. On my end, I just do like a. I think it's almost four seconds and it just says you're listening to Podcasting Made simple and that's it. And then just rolls right in. It's got like our little sound effect in the background. Just really simple. Because when I looked at the. The data, I saw that people were dropping off and this was going back a couple of years now, but it's. It's really held the retention well, the last points I want to make on this album. And then I'll. I'll give you a chance because you have a final thought before we keep on moving here. If you pre record your introduction or you do it after the interview is done with your guest, make sure that it's balanced with the rest of the episode. I've been noticing more and more that people have like that, that intro section and it's way louder than the episode or way quieter than the episode or the other thing is that the energy doesn't match it. So you're like really monotone during your intro and then you're really high energy during the episode. It's like, like it should feel like even if you're recording it several times, it should feel like the same thing from a volume standpoint, from an energy standpoint, I think to me, like, if, like if you sound different in your intro than you do in the actual episode, like, that kind of already puts me on edge a little bit as a listener, and maybe that's just a me thing, but I do know that very least the level should be the same, so I'm not having to turn it up and down when I'm trying to listen to your episode.
- [17:26]
B
All right, so today I listened to an episode that I was on and I was the guest and I went, man, the audio sounds different. I wonder if he re recorded his segments because he didn't like the way it sounded. And I think at least in the beginning he had. So I'm with you there. When you're the host and you're Introducing your guest. I would always do that during the recording, even if you don't use that version. So sometimes you'll get on as you're a guest and they'll go, oh, by the way, I always record it, so blah, blah, blah. I will have said XYZ or something like that. You don't have to explain all that. You could just record it there and kind of help set the tone for the interview a bit. If it's good, you use it. If it's not, you rerecord it. You don't have to explain. Typically, I would have done this earlier. And nobody, especially if it's an audio podcast, will feel weird if you pull up. I mean, you could write it down on a piece of paper. You can just hold it up in front of yourself and go, today I'm talking to Alex Sanfilippo, the founder and CEO of PodMatch. And it's not going to make them feel strange that you picked that up. So I always would just record it when you're doing the intro.
- [18:41]
A
Yeah, that's a good point. And I like that because it gives the guests also the freedom to be like, okay, I don't have to fill in any gaps because I know what you said about me, right? So instead of just being like, oh, well, I don't know what you're going to say. So I'll guess this is a good time to transition into the actual ideas for podcast guests. When it comes to an intro, first thing, I'll share, which I talked about earlier, but we've got to have better bios. Like, we've got to be able to shorten out our bio. And that's typically, like, I call it a bio. It's a short description of who you are. I even feel like mine's too long. Alvin. Like, I worked on. I keep on working on shortening it. It's less than 50 words now. I'll actually read real quick. I have it written down here, and this is what most hosts will read. But me reading it earlier, before we hit record, made me realize it still seems too long, but it's this. Alex Sanfilippo is a podcaster and the founder of podmatch.com a platform that automatically matches podcast hosting guests for interviews. Through PodMatch. In his podcast titled Podcasting Made Simple, Alex helps independent podcasters grow their influence and revenue so that they can better serve their listeners. And like that. That already feels like so much like, really, all you need to say is, hey, this is Alex Sanfilippo. He's the founder of podmatch.com and he helps podcast guests and hosts get connected to me. Like, just thinking out loud, I'm like, that sounds better. Because the rest of my experience is probably going to get drawn out during the episode anyway. And so again, my top tip when it comes to an intro for a podcast guest is shorten your bio and reinforce to host. Hey, all I want you to say is, is this. This short little blurb here, right? Like, I don't need three paragraphs or five minutes of intro. So that's my first tip. Alvin, over to you.
- [20:04]
B
I think that exact thing, a lot of times when you're writing something and you want it to be a bit more concise and to the point and figure out what is important here. Just practice it as if you were talking to a friend. And if I were to introduce you to somebody, I'd say, oh, it's my friend Alex sanfilippo. He's the CEO and founder of PodMatch. They are the best way to get guests and hosts connected, I wouldn't say. And through his. Through his podcast podcast, he made simple. He helps empower independent creators. All that would be, like, such a strange thing to say in an introduction to a person. And so I think we always improve our writing, we always improve our podcasts. If we're just imagining, like, this is real life. How do you talk in real life?
- [20:50]
A
Dude, that's. I actually never thought of it that way, but, yeah, how would you talk in real life? I think that, that, that really is the solution right there. Okay, I have a question for you specifically, Alvin, because I don't have an answer to this one, but whenever a host asks, hey, can you fill any gaps or can you tell the listeners more about yourself? Like, any of those type of things, man, I feel like I always fumble with that. Like, I don't know what to do. And it's one of those things that sometimes I go back and listen to the episodes and like, oh, I did a good job that time. Other times I'm like, man, why did I go on that tangent? Just depends on my mood that day. I don't know. What is your suggestion for a podcast guest that's being asked, is there any gaps or anything else that you want to share with the listeners before we start? Like, how do you answer that?
- [21:28]
B
Well, man, I think the only thing that you'd want to put there is if the host missed something critical about why you're on this podcast. Like, you don't need to tell your Life story. Don't tell them how many kids you have. Don't tell them your previous job. If you're on because you wrote a book, tell them and they forgot about the book. Then you could mention it. If you're on because you're an expert in podcasting, you could say you could bring one proof point in, but mostly it's not a great question. I think that honestly, if I was a host, I would recommend not asking that. Write the short bio that gives the proof point. Why is this person on here? And why should you keep listening and then move on? You don't need to tell their whole life story. And the guest does know that they know that you brought them on for one thing, not because you want to share their entire life story.
- [22:23]
A
Yeah, it's a good point. It reminds me of something one of my old speaker coaches used to tell me. He reminded me always, like, alex, you've already been given the stage. You don't need to convince people that you deserve to be there. And so, and I think the temptation is like to, to want to, to share your resume as a guest and to make sure people know, like, oh, I, I, wow, this person is amazing. They deserve to be here. If you're, if you're a guest and you're already there, you've already proven everything you need to prove to that audience because that audience trusts the host and the host put you there. And I think that that goes a really long way. So for you, you don't have to sell anything. Right. You're just there to add value, to serve, and to make it as engaging as possible, especially in those first five minutes. Right. We gotta avoid that 35% drop off. No, that's good.
- [23:02]
B
Should we transition over to outros?
- [23:04]
A
Yeah, man, for sure. So I also don't know how to do outros well, because a lot of people want to mention leaving a review of the podcast or liking subscribing all that stuff. And I just cut that out completely. I'll read my outro to you, the whole thing. So it has my little jingle and it just says, for more episodes, please visit podmatch.com episodes thank you so much for listening. That's it. And I cut out the rest of it. And I don't necessarily know if it's good advice to tell people not to ask for subscribers and follow and all that stuff. Right. But I just think most people have kind of tuned out at that point. So any thoughts on the outro side of things?
- [23:36]
B
I mean, people have definitely tuned out by that point, that's 100% true. It's very tempting to ask people to do everything, you know, like us on Facebook and join our private Discord channel and leave me a review. Those really help. Text a friend if you think they'd like the podcast. And if you go over to podmatch.com and you sign up with this promo code, you'll get 10% off and you can connect with me. And then people have fully glazed over and they will take zero action. But the thing they might do is if you give them a single action and a single call to action, you might say, hey, if you want more episodes, go to podmatch.com and listen. If you want them to contact you, say, tap the link in the show notes to send me a text. Give them the one thing you want them to do and give them a very clear way to do it. One of my favorite outros is a podcast that just says, think of somebody who'd like this show and text it. Text them. Text your group chats. That is the best way for you to help this podcast. And I'm like, yeah, that's really good. Especially these say text. So it tells people how to do it. It says, drop it in your group chat. I'm like, as soon as I heard that, I thought of all the group chats I'm in. I'm like, are any of these appropriate for this podcast? No. So I didn't do it. But for everybody that has a group chat that would be interested in this podcast, they now know exactly what the host wants them to do. You really dilute the chance that people take any action once you start asking for five.
- [25:09]
A
You know, I almost think that singular call to action, like, one for you, one for the guest. I think that that's like, that's also not just is it the best thing for. Not when people glaze over, but it also will get you the best results. Like just straight up. Like, as soon as you have two things now, you just split everybody, right? So, like, what's. What's the one thing? And I'm going to call another episode of this show. It's six steps for creating the best call to action as a podcast guest or host. It's podmatch.com ep 3, 4, 2. Go check that out on later on your own. But basically, we talked about the same thing that Alvin just mentioned here. It's just mentioning the one thing, and I find that has worked so much better for me personally. Right. The other thing that I'll mention here, beyond Just like, the call to action for the host, for the guests is. And I don't know, I mean, maybe this is crazy, but I almost think, like, ending abruptly so you catch people off guard is the best way to keep them from, like, beating you to hitting stop or next, Right? Like, if you get in so abruptly, they don't even have time to, like, shut it off. Like, that seems like the win, because then you have 100% completion. Right? Like, and I'm not saying you just drop off like, hey, guys, thanks for. And then it's off. Right? I'm not saying that. But you just don't want it to be long and drawn out and be like, man, thank you, everybody, so much. Again, it's February 27th. I really appreciate y' all spending time at 68 degrees outside, right? Like, just keeping it going, but instead just being like, hey, thank you so much. See ya. Right? And just being done.
- [26:23]
B
It's great advice for meetings. It's great advice for hanging out with friends. It's great advice for everything. You'd rather end it a little bit early than drag something out way too long. And everybody ends up thinking, like, yeah, that wasn't great. I wasn't left wanting more. I was left going, oh, my gosh, there's another seven minutes of this. I. I really want to get out of here. So it's true for sermons. It's true for everything. It's definitely true for podcasts.
- [26:51]
A
Yeah. And I think that the takeaway here for hosting guests is to think about how can you make that shorter. Right. Guests, when you're. When you're asked the question, hey, where can listeners find out more about you? Give them one answer, host, then just wrap it up. Don't try to. To drag that even longer. If the. If the meat of the episode's done, the value's been added, the promise has been delivered on, then just go ahead and end. Like, it's time to go ahead and end it. And doing that quicker will help you retain that 24% of people that start dropping off at that point. Yeah. Anyway, Albin, dude, this has been a lot of fun, man. I know we're getting at time here. And real quick, I just want to give everyone, like, a call to action to check out a little bit more about what Albin does. If you go to buzzcast buzzsprout.com buzzcast. Buzzsprout.com you can check out Albin's show, which is super good, by the way. If you're a podcast guest or host, which you are. If you're checking this out, it'll give you a little bit more insights into the industry and they've got a lot of content like this. I've learned so much from the show over the years. So Alvin, I appreciate what you do. And also man, just thanks for the wisdom day and spend this time with us. I really appreciate you.
- [27:43]
B
Thanks for having me on and thanks to everybody who listened to the end of this episode.
- [27:46]
A
Should we do like a really long drawn out outro now, dude, or what do you think? I'm just kidding. Thanks again dude. For more episodes, please visit podmatch.com episodes thank you so much for listening.