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When I go into a Facebook group and we look at the questions around how do I grow my show? How do I grow this thing that I love my podcast? I see people pile on and I see people answering the questions to the best of their ability. But that question about how do I grow my show? Seems a little open ended and I think for the most part very hard to define because we're talking about many different things from the person asking the question and in good spirit trying to answer it to the best of our ability. We sometimes miss the conversation that's really happening around our podcast and how we can grow this thing that we love, our show or community, share our guests interviews and do all of that to help us our podcast be better than it ever was. And it's something that we're always kind of wrestling with. I'm here in Canada and I love podcasting. I love meeting great people and having them on my show and building a relationship and community around them. And when I talk to podcasters around growing their show, when they ask me that question, I come back with this simple question back to them. When you say you want to grow your show, what does that mean? Grow it in what way? Grow it in the number of people who listen to the show and watch your show, or is it growing the depth of the connection that you have with your audience? I'm talking today about beyond the empty seats and embracing your podcast family. As a podcaster, three key things I want to talk about. I'm going to share a quote with you today around an apple that I think is really going to help you refocus and ask better questions about how to grow your show based on a simple quote around an apple. I'm going to talk give you an example in the story from my podcast where I reached out through the show and highlighted a guest and what they did and response. And then I really want to kind of dive deeply into the audience versus community aspect of podcasting. And I'm glad you're here with me for this. So let's jump in. My name is Dave. I'm in Ontario, Canada. And podcasting for me is probably the best thing that I've ever stumbled into. And I love that not only did I find podcasting, podcasting found me. And in that beautiful connection between wanting to have a show and knowing that there's a show that wants me to be the host of it, it's a great relationship. And the people I've met through podcasting have changed My life have really re organized what's important for me. And when I go into these Facebook group rooms, the one thing that I really see is a lot of people struggling around growing their podcast. And like I mentioned at the beginning, growing your podcast can mean anything from getting more listeners to, you know, having more interactions and more engagement with your audience. It could be having your listeners listen to more of your episodes. It could be how you onboard a new listener when you have hundreds of episodes in your back catalog. It could be how to start your show from the beginning with no listeners, and how to grow this thing that you love. We want everyone to fall in love with our show. We wouldn't make it if we didn't want people to listen to it. We want people to hear great stories. We want people to connect with us, and we want to see this beautiful thing called podcasting grow, not just for us, but for the industry. We want more and more new listeners coming to podcasting every day. We want this thing to grow. And with all these great tools and resources out there to help us find guests and to be connected with great, inspiring stories, it's amazing how we can grow this little thing into something spectacular. There's a quote that I found, and I love it, and I use it quite often, and if you've been beside me in conversation or you've been on my screen as a guest or we've interacted to some degree, you and I have probably discussed this quote. It's all around an apple seed. Now, there's nothing spectacular about an apple seed. It's quite unassuming. But the quote basically goes, you can count the number of seeds in an apple, but you can't count the number of apples in a seed. Now, what does this mean? You can cut open an apple, you can pick out all the seeds and put them on the table in front of you, and you can add them up. But take any one of those single seeds from that apple and tell me how many apples are going to be produced from that one seed. You can't. The potential for apples from one seed is unlimited. Over the lifetime of that seed as it turns into a tree and produces fruit, you can't count that number. And what I find. When I have people in my world asking about, Dave, how do I grow my show? How do I grow my audience? I refer them back to the apple seed quote. You can count the number of seeds in an apple, but you can't count the number of apples in a seed. When somebody says to me, dave, I only have a Handful of listeners. And I feel like I'm failing at podcasting because I want this thing to grow. I want more people to be a part of my show. But I just. I get so distraught when I see 5 listens, 10 listens, and then I go into these Facebook groups and people have hundreds and thousands of listeners, and they seem to be just doing so well. And I humbly go back to my statistics and analytics and go, well, maybe I'm not cut out for this. Maybe I'm not good enough to be a podcaster because my audience numbers are so low, and it's such a struggle to get people to listen to the show and follow the show, and I want to grow it, but it's just not happening. So maybe podcasting isn't for me in that moment. My response to those questions around growing your show comes back to that apple seed. Pick up that seed, the unlimited potential. Now, you look at your stats and you see I have one listen on my last episode, and you're thinking, wow, one person listen to this podcast episode. Now can we just pause for a second and go, well, what if. What if that one person who listened to that specific episode, there was something in there that they heard from you or your guest or in the conversation in your show, something clicked for them where after listening or watching your podcast, they went home and treated their partner better. They went home and they decided that they were on the wrong path as they were parenting and they made a switch. And now their kids benefit from a new perspective that came from your show, from your conversation, from your guest on your show. They are now seeing life differently, and they're going to take that knowledge home with them. And that family benefits far beyond a listen of your show. That one listen could represent a life change that would not have happened if you had not done your show. That one seed could change the total trajectory of somebody's life. I talked to one gentleman, Mike, who was in a really bad place, and thankfully, he wasn't successful. But he tried to leave this place and leave this world. It didn't work. He came out to his truck the next day, and instead of the radio, came on, a podcast came on, and in that moment, he found his space in life. That podcaster recorded that episode months ago, had no concept of Mike in his pickup truck listening to that show, but created the episode that Mike would listen to in the future. And that episode was the exact thing Mike need to hear in that moment. And it changed his life. And now he changes lives because of what happened to him. And I'm telling you that as you, as a podcaster, we get so caught up in how many people listen to our show and if we're a success or not based on how many numbers we have represented by listeners, that I get a little sad when people tell me they're not successful as a podcaster because they don't have a massive audience. I'm not in the top 100, so I can't be a success. I see a lot of great podcasters who create for a very tiny audience, but a highly engaged audience. And in that engagement, there's some real transformative things happening in the background that the podcaster may never get vision to because it's just not something we can measure. I want you to imagine going to speak at a conference. You're invited as the guest speaker, they introduce you, and you walk up to the stage, you walk up to the podium, and you adjust the mic to the height of your. How tall you are. And you look out over what you expect to see as a packed room, every chair filled, people longing and excited to hear what you have to present on in this meeting and in this talk. But to your horror, you look out and you see more empty chairs than you see people. A room that you anticipated to be full and overflowing with excitement and. And just energy is sapped from you in that moment because you see that there are more empty chairs than there are people, and you're thinking, oh, oh, I'm so sorry, everyone. There's. There's. I was expecting more people, so I don't want to waste your time. There's probably better events and there's better talks happening right now that maybe you should go to, because I was expecting, like 20 people, 50 people, 100 people, and there's only five people here. I'm sorry for embarrass. I embarrassed. I am wasting your time. I'm going to dismiss you, and then you guys can go find something a little bit more engaging than this, because apparently there's nobody here. Imagine what that means to the audience to hear there's nobody here. And they're sitting there eager to connect with you because they're here for you and your topic. What does that mean, to dismiss them? I had an audience encounter with one of my listeners on one of my podcasts, and what I was noticing in my analytics was I had a new listener in Germany, and they didn't listen to every episode, only the more recent ones, and they listened to five in a row. I'm taking a guess, because there's only one listener in that specific city in Germany. So what I did at the beginning of my next episode is I just said, welcome to the show and glad to have you listening to the show. I just want to mention there's a listener in this city in Germany. I just, I see you in my stats and I see you're a new listener. I just want to say hi, and I would love to connect with you. Thank you for listening to the show. And then we went right in, just started talking, and at the end of that episode, I also came back and said, and again, just to that listener in Germany, I just want to say thank you for listening to the last five episodes. That's so kind of you. I would love to hear your voice and to connect with you. So thanks for listening. Now, I do that on all my different podcasts. I have many different shows I host, and all of a sudden I got this email, it came through my speak link that someone left me a voice message and I was excited. I go to that email and I press play. And what I hear is this smiling voice gleefully responding to a request to leave a message. And who is it? His name is Simit. And Simit is where? In that city in Germany. And he chuckles in his response as he says, dave, hi, my name is Simit. I live in that city in Germany. And yes, I've been listening to your show and what a joyful experience to hear you call me out on your podcast. I just want to say thank you for your show. It's inspiring to start my show, and I just wanted to say thank you. You can count the number of seeds in an apple, but you can't count the number of apples in a seed. I think that we as podcasters need to stop fixating on who's not listening to our show and start hyperfocusing on who is. To prioritize the accessibility of our show, to be available to everyone, everywhere, at all times, no matter what platform they choose. To foster meaningful interactions with the people who do come to our show, whether it be five people or 500, but to foster meaningful interactions and to deliver exceptional value to those that decide to press play on our episodes. One listener or viewer of our podcast, deeply influenced by our story, by the stories of our guests, by our podcast as a show, could ignite a ripple effect of inspiration and learning, of change that reaches far beyond a listener. And it's all because of your show. So when somebody says to me, dave, I want to grow my show, but I'm so disappointed on how, how many people are not listening to my podcast. I'm asking you today to refocus your attention on. On what it means to grow your show. Yes, again, I, I agree. The more people who listen to our show, the more people who will be helped. The more people we can reach, the more lives we can change. Completely understand. And that's exactly what I want for my show. But it's not my focus. My focus is those who do press play, those who do choose my podcast over all of the other great podcasts in the world, and how can I build relationship with them? So instead of saying, dave, I want to grow my show and leaving it at that, I want you to fill it in a little bit more the next time you ask this question. And I want you to say, dave, I want to grow the depth of my show. Great. That's something we can work on. So as a new listener comes to your podcast and you have 10 episodes, they start on episode 10, and they continue from 10 forward, they never go back. To grow the depth of your show simply means, I would love for you, as a new listener, joining in progress, to go back to the beginning and catch up on all of these great episodes. Now imagine you have 500 episodes and you send somebody, a new listener, back into your catalog, and they listen to 500 of your past episodes. That's growing your audience. That's growing the depth of your connection in your community. What about growing the depth of your connection with the listener beyond a number? And now you have the name of Simmit in Germany. To understand, the name of the person who listens to your show could actually replace this whole avatar idea that you had to create the show. You no longer need to leverage that as much, because now you actually have a name that you can say, I know who listens to my show by name. I know where they live, who they are. I've had a conversation with them. I've heard their voice, I've read their emails. The depth of your audience could be a growth opportunity. And if you're saying, but maybe I'm just, my audience isn't growing the way I want numerically. What if you don't have a growth problem, you have a retention problem. People come to your show, but they don't stay. What if you were able to keep people longer so that every time you have a new listener, your audience grows over time? But if you have five new listeners come in and five listeners leave, that number is going to stay the same all the time. But there's a transaction happening that you need to address. So when you say I want to grow my show, I want you to be very clear on what you mean by grow your show. As you go into Facebook groups, as you ask the experts, understand what you want to grow about your show beyond the number, and realize that Whether you have five listens or 500 listens, whether you have 10 people or 10,000, your job as a podcaster is to connect and to focus on the people you have instead of the empty seats representing the people who haven't found you yet. Those seats will fill up over time as you continue to show up, as you continue to give your podcast in an accessible way to everyone, as you foster meaningful interactions with your community and deliver exceptional content that people can't find anywhere else because it only can come from you. As you build that, understand that you can count the number of seeds in an apple, but you can't count the number of apples in a seed. It's not always about audience, it's about community beyond the empty seats. I need you to embrace your podcast this week and embrace your podcast family. And thank you for listening to this and thank you for participating in this podcast.