Dana K. White (0:00)

Did y'all know that I train and certify decluttering coaches? I'm excited to announce that 11 of my coaches are teaching 6 week live decluttering workshops starting in February. The curriculum is based on the strategies in my book Decluttering at the speed of Life. And these classes are a fantastic opportunity to learn in a live situation with class discussions and an instructor who can answer your questions. Go to declutteringcoaches.com/class to find a $50 workshop that works for you. That's decluttering coaches.com class. Welcome to a Slob Comes Clean, the podcast. I am Dana K. White. I share my personal DES lobbification process as I figure out ways to keep my own home under control. I share the truth about cleaning and organizing strategies that actually work in real life for real people. These people who don't love cleaning and organizing. Thanks for joining me today. This is podcast number 442 and I think I'm going to call it how to be a Maximalist. How to be a Maximalist? Yeah, it's a term that I've started seeing. So I think it's a fun thing to talk about. Okay, but before I do y'all, my newest book is coming out on February 11th. I have been working on this book for five years. So if you've been around for the last five years and you've heard me talking about working on a book, it's this one in the middle of that I wrote Organizing for the rest of us. But yeah, this is it. It's called Hap. I'm sorry. No, it doesn't. It's called Jesus doesn't care about your messy house. Yeah, you heard that right. It is the spiritual side of things and it's really important to me and I want you to know about it. So my goal is to remove the shame, specifically any spiritual shame over this specific issue. And you know, my other books have no spiritual content in them. And y'all know me, I'm kind of like just blunt. And so you know this one is about Jesus because it's in the title, right? So if you get that wherever books are sold, you can go to a slob chemsclean.com Jesus and that is where you can get some pre order bonuses which includes a five day devotional. The first couple chapters. I believe it's a chapter sampler and that you could immediately download. They're all digital. It's not going to come with the book. It'll be like immediate that you get there and you get invited to a Q and A after it comes out. And just to be clear, I'm going to do three different Q&As. One is for people who are like, I am all in. Yes. Got it. One is for people who are like, huh? Okay, I'm a little skeptical. Okay. And then one is for those of you who are like, yeah, no, no. The subject matter. So anyway, just want you to know you're all welcome if you choose to read it. And those Q and A invitations will be sent out after the book comes out. Cause the idea would be that you would pre order it, read it, and then we can have the conversation after that. This episode is brought to you by Soundcore from Anchor. There's nothing better than a good night's sleep. But when family members are up late, when I am trying to settle down and drift off, I'm so thankful for my new Soundcore Sleep A20 earbuds. I'm a side sleeper and they're designed for that. Like, they're flat and don't stick out beyond my ear so I can wear them with no pressure or discomfort. When my best friend and I travel together, she brings her sound machine. But Anker's Sleep A20 earbuds function as my private sound machine. I like the sound of rain just low enough that it lulls me to sleep and keeps me asleep. And of course, I love that Soundcore A20 earbuds are rechargeable with a long battery life. Get the sleep you deserve with soundcore sleep a20@soundcore.com that's s o u n d c o r e dot com. Use code sleep at checkout to get $30 off s l e dash e p in all caps. Tonight, every night, grab your pair and sleep away. All right, let's get into the maximalist conversation. I love this word maximalist, since it's made up. Anyway. I kind of want to say maximumist, but whatever. It's a term that I'm seeing. I've seen it in some memes or articles floating around, but also, I had just kind of noticed it. Have you noticed that the grandma aesthetic is. Is somehow like, becoming a thing again? Right? And like, kitsch is really exciting. I don't know how, but somehow the algorithm capital A there, right? The algorithm has decided that I like to see thrift stores trips. I don't know if everybody sees thrift store trips, which is a hard thing to say, but I have been seeing a lot. And so people will go into thrift stores and just say, hey, you know, isn't this adorable? This little trinket, this, whatever that is a lot of the same stuff that I have decluttered over the years. So I don't know if everybody's getting those or if it's just me. And I'm sure it's me because then I watch them and all that. But, you know, it's. It's a lot of this stuff that at one point was considered by whoever gets to say it out loud. You know, that stuff is not in style anymore. And now people are like, it is too. It's in style, Right? Okay, so the reason we're talking about this is I gotta protect y'all, okay? Because I know the excitement that some of y'all are feeling when you hear or see or get the vibe that maximum or maximalism is the trend now. Right? It's possible that some of you listening are thinking, I waited out minimalism, and now I. My time has come because I am ready to be a maximalist. So we're going to talk about how to be a maximalist, okay? I just want to be clear. I've never encouraged you to be a minimalist. I know that a lot of times, people. I feel like it's a little bit less now. Maybe it was when I first started on YouTube. And I'm sure it has to do with the fact that, you know, I kind of got back onto YouTube after working with dawn from Minimal Mom. You know that I had minimalists following me, but, like, the number of times that people would say things that showed, they just would referred to me as a minimalist or assumed I was a minimalist, and I was like, well, I don't guess you haven't really watched my channel, have you? I guess you haven't really read my books or anything because I am not a minimalist. And I think minimalism is awesome. If it helps you. If it helps you to think of yourself as a minimalist or to have the goal of hitting this minimalism thing, then of course that's what you should do. If that is beneficial to you, then that's what you should do. I do always say that because there are a lot of people like me who are all or nothing kind of girls. We're 880's here. If you don't know what that is, that's the character from Oklahoma, the musical that sings all or nothing, which is not talking about stuff, I'll tell you that. Anyway, we tend to be all or nothing, right? Like, so my experience with minimalism and not like some official big experience, but in my experience, I would have a lot of times where I would be laying in my bed at night thinking about how much I couldn't stand my, you know, mess and my messy house. And I would think, okay, I've. I've finally made the decision that I needed to make. Okay, this is it. This is it. I have decided I am going to get rid of all my stuff. You know what? I don't need it. I don't. And I would talk myself through that, and I would have this big internal conversation sometimes out loud. Sorry, Bob. But I would have this big moment of, this is it. I'm going to change. I'm going to get rid of all my stuff, and I'm just going to have the bare minimum. And then I would take that energy, and I would go stand in front of a messy space, which was all of the spaces in my house, right? And I would think, okay, I'm just going to do it. I'm going to get rid of everything but the absolute essentials. And then I'd be like, oh, I can't get rid of that. Well, but I love that again. And I would just shut down, and I wouldn't do anything because I was trying to swing so extreme on the. I don't like my house completely out of control. So what's the answer? It's the complete and total opposite. You know what the answer is? Better. Less. Throw away the trash. You know, start with the trash. I mean, like, that's the reason I've never pushed minimalism. It is incredibly helpful for some of y'all. And the thing is, the reason that I work well with minimalists is that to be a minimalist, you have to declutter. And what I do is teach people how to declutter. Right. But I have never pushed that term. And also, I think that swinging from minimalism to maximalism, I am not saying that people are no longer minimalists, okay? Like, there's a lot of people who are going to forever be minimalist. But I. I do think it's a reaction. I do think it's a fashion and aesthetic thing that we're talking about, you know, is that there are people who want the cozy, more stuff, surfaces with displays kind of an aesthetic, as opposed to the sleek and empty aesthetic. Right? And so. So it's an aesthetic thing, y'all. I. I think I've told y'all this story before. Stop me if I've told you before. I'm just kidding. Y'all can actually Talk to me, because this is a podcast. I remember when I sold Tupperware. I've talked about that, right? I sold Tupperware. I graduated in December from college and didn't start teaching until the next. I guess I started in July. So for six months I was substitute teaching. And I had had a friend who was out of college and married, and she had started selling Tupperware my last semester in college. And I had had a Tupperware party with her and all my college friends because that is me. I am. That's me. I just thought it was a hoot to have a Tupperware party. And I was like, this sounds so fun. And so I became a Tupperware lady the month that I was not month. I became a Tupperware lady after I graduated from college, right? And I remember the lady who I looked up because I, you know, went to college out of state. And so then I came home and I looked up a Tupperware person. I was like, I just called her and said, I want to sell Tupperware. And I don't think she usually had people. She usually had to convince people to sell Tupperware. Not, you know, just somebody calling her saying they wanted to sell. Anyway, I loved leading the parties. I loved being at the front and being cute and funny. I thought I was cute. At least I knew I was funny. But, you know, making people laugh on, you know, selling the stuff. And I had so much fun, except I didn't like the actual, like, salesy part of it. So it was very. And then I got to where I felt like every time I called anybody about anything, they thought I was trying to get them. They assumed that I was going to try to get them to have a Tupperware party. And so then I felt like they didn't want me to call them. And so then I. That rejection I couldn't handle, right? So that's when I quit. But I remember the first. I think it was like my intro party or whatever, where this. This person who was my person above me was like, teaching me how to do the thing. And she had it. And she said, talking about Pantone, I think that is Pantone colors and what the Pantone colors were for that year. And they were these bright jewel tones, like, you know, your blues and your oranges and, you know, anyway, all these bright colors that were. And I remember so specifically because I thought what. Because those were not the colors that had been popular. It was like a complete departure from. This would have been the very beginning of 97 some of y'all know this stuff. I don't. But I don't remember what the colors were that were popular before that. But the. This was a huge difference in what's popular, right? And I don't know how all that works. I don't know who gets to decide that. But the reality is things go in and out of fashion. And the minimalist and maximalist thing, it's an aesthetic, is what we're talking about here, okay? Now, minimalists, do not get mad at me. I do know minimalism is a lifestyle designed to make your life better. But what we're talking. Or make your life easier to handle and not have to manage stuff. I get that. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying what we're talking about today in this context is the aesthetic of maximalism and minimalism, okay? Bell bottoms come back in and out of style. I mean, I remember, you know, I was born in 74. I remember being horrified in what, mid-80s or something about bell bottoms. Like, bell bottoms. Oh, my goodness. And then I remember when they came back, and I was like, I didn't. I didn't think that would ever come back because we were just so against bell bottoms. Like, who would ever wear that? And they came back. And then I remember when skinny jeans came back. I remember multiple times skinny jeans have come in. Like, I specifically remember the first time I saw somebody wear Capri, and I was like, what is she wearing? And then it becomes the norm, and then the thing that's not Capris becomes strange, you know? And so all these things come in and out of style. Because I'm 50, y'all. I'm 50 years old, and so I've seen a thing or two in my life, right? So this is. It's a. It's a trend, right? So. So here's the deal. I just want you to know that whatever the trends are, whether it's minimalism or maximalism, whether it's flowers or geometric shapes, please don't ever let that come back in. Anyway, whatever it is, the strategies and the principles that you've been learning here on the Slob Chems Clean podcast and in Decluttering at the Speed of Life, my book, they all still apply. Like, nothing changes in what you've learned about decluttering if you go from a minimalist aesthetic to a maximalist aesthetic, because it's never been about the aesthetics. One of my favorite words is aesthetics, so I'm going to keep on using the word aesthetics. I sure hope it's okay for me to keep saying aesthetics, which means the look of things, right? Okay. A clogged drain is no fun and also pretty gross. I've pulled a lot of hair out of drains over the years when I notice they aren't draining. Hair and gunk can build up so quickly, causing a problem before I know it's a problem. That's why I was glad to learn about Tub Shroom, patented drain protection for all the drains in your home. I'm a big fan of tools that prevent messes and hassles, and that's what TubShroom products do. They catch the hair before it goes down the drain. Tub Shroom has been a best seller for over five years now, being used in homes everywhere. 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Maximalism can go obviously too far and can be overwhelming, right? So in the same way that I never encourage you to just look at your stuff and say arbitrarily, I'm going to get rid of all of my pillows and all of my whatever because I can survive without them in the same way. It's not going to be an arbitrary thing to say. It's maximalism. Now I'm going to buy every single pillow that comes across my path. I'm going to do. Because you all know what, that's what I used to do. And guess what? I couldn't handle it. My house was out of control. I was not okay with it because of that. Right? Because that is how I lived. I just gathered, gathered, gathered, gathered. So it's not the aesthetics. The issue is your clutter threshold. So whether you prefer the minimalist or the maximalist, even if you go for maximalist, the defining thing is your clutter threshold. Your clutter threshold is the amount of stuff that you can easily keep under control. It's whatever the stuff we're talking about, whether it's pillows or books or. Oh, I said books, you know, or, or bottles of ketchup or tea kettles or plates or knives or whatever, or pictures on the. Whatever you can keep under control. That's your clutter threshold. The only way to find your clutter threshold is to declutter. That hasn't changed. If your house is consistently getting out of control, then you have more stuff than you can handle. The fact that clutter is defined by me, because I wrote the books as the amount of stuff or clutter is anything that consistently gets out of control that stays the same. Because the maximalist aesthetic is not talking about piles, Right? And that's the problem is when I was bringing all these things into my home because I liked them, they were cozy, they were cute, all that. They were mismatchy and fun, and I could just picture what they were going to look like. The reality was they didn't look like that in my house. The thing that I had envisioned as I was bringing these things in was not what happened in my house. It was consistently out of control. I brought in so much stuff that it was more than I could handle. Okay. And this is a good time to talk about too. You know, clutter is anything that consistently gets out of control in your home. Your clutter threshold is the amount of stuff that you can handle. That means if you go into someone's house and their house has a collection of clown figurines covering every surface, that is not necessarily clutter. If they can handle having clown figurines on every surface and they are not toppling over, they're not keeping them from being able to cook dinner in their house and sit on their couch with a friend. You know, all these things. If they can do all of that, even if you don't like the amount of stuff, it's not clutter unless it's consistently out of control. Okay? So so many times when people hear clutter threshold, they think I'm talking about a preference. Like, what drives me crazy? Yeah, like so and so stuff that drives me crazy. And I'm like, well, okay, but if it's not your stuff and your space in your house, then okay, like, what's it now? Obviously, it can be a frustration when you live with someone else who has a very different clutter threshold. Right. Or a different preference for stuff. But people assume that clutter threshold is pre. Not. It's what you can handle. So whether you're going with a minimalist aesthetic or a maximalist aesthetic, I'm going to say it as many times as I can. It's about the clutter threshold, what you can handle. Okay? Right. It's not clutter unless it's getting out of control, unless it is keeping you from being able to live your life within your space. Right. Okay. So. So things to consider, though, are, okay, I want more stuff on there. And that was part of what I had to realize. I did want the cute and quirky. You know, my friend, one of my college roommates, and I've written about this in one of the books. I know, but I remember going to her house, and I loved her house, and there was so much stuff in her house. But she comes from a family of people who are constantly tweaking and making it look very artistic. So they would have interesting, quirky things artistically arranged. I would bring in all these cool, quirky things, and it's not in me to constantly tweak and arrange and rearrange. Right. And so that is the clutter threshold, right, for me is I need to have less stuff so that I can maintain it, because I am not the type to go in and arrange and rearrange when it gets moved a little bit. Or do you tweak it? Do you maintain it? Am I going to want to dust it? All that kind of stuff, Right? Like, that is the reality there. So what are the things to focus on that don't change with minimalism being in style or maximalism being in style? And I'm. By the way, I am not saying that minimalism is out and maximalism is in. I'm not saying that at all. Right. I'm just saying the reason I'm talking about this is I have started to hear this word, and I know how so many of us are right as we go. Oh, good, I can stop. I can stop decluttering now. No, no, no, no. You didn't declutter because you wanted the aesthetic of minimalism. I mean, maybe you did, but you decluttered because your house was holding you back from doing what you wanted to do. Right? And so all these things still apply. So it is still whether we are going with a minimalist aesthetic or a maximalist esthetic, it's still about where you would look for something first. It is. Where you would look for that item first is where it needs to go. No matter what your house is like, no matter what your esthetic, no matter whether you have a cozy grandma couch or you have a sleek IKEA couch. Right? Like, it doesn't. That has nothing to do with whether or not you should put things in the place where you would look for it first, because the place where you would look for it first gives you a place to have it as its home and means that you're going to find it in the first place, where you look for it, which is always the goal. No matter what your aesthetic, Right. It is still about starting with trash. Whether you have a minimalist aesthetic or a maximalist aesthetic, whatever you prefer. A maximalist home still doesn't need to have trash in it, right? Like the trash needs to go. Because when I'm talking about trash, you know, I'm talking about actual, real, not stuff we're deciding is trash because we're a minimalist. No, no, I'm talking about actual trash. Right. And so it doesn't mean, okay, good, I don't have to do anything anymore because that's when the trash builds up, right? And so if we go with, you know, we're still going to start with trash and maybe we don't get it down to the complete bare surface because you are going with more of a cozy stuff covering it surface. But stuff covering it does not mean trash, right? It is still about, duh, donations. Because donations were always obvious donations that all it took was a moment of focus to make you realize, I don't want this in my house. Maximalism is still about only having what you can handle, what you really want in your house, what actually has a place. And so obvious things that are like donatable. Obviously this can go. It still needs to go. Whether you're minimalist or you're maximalist, right? It's still about doing the easy stuff first. It is that is still the most effective way to get anything done, especially to get anything done in your house, in your home, is to do the easy stuff first. It's cold outside, so this time of year is indoor time. 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Go to pretty litter.com slob to save 20% on your first order and get a free cat toy. That's prettylitter.com slob to save 20 percent on your first order and get a FREE cat toy. Prettylitter.com slo terms and conditions apply. See site for details. Here's another one. Whether minimalist or maximalist, it's still about taking it there now. It never had anything to do with whether minimalism was your goal to take it there now. Taking it there now prevents me from having piles of things that are not supposed to be in this space. In this space. It prevents me from having surfaces that are not even the place that I'm decluttering now, covered in clutter. The piles of things in the hallway, the piles of things on the floor, on the dining room table, on the counter, all of that. It's still about taking it there now so that I don't create a bigger mess. Because a mess is a mess is a mess, no matter what your aesthetic, Right? So taking it there now works for either situation. I don't get to say, oh, good, I don't have to do that anymore because I'm a maximalist. No, no, no. If you wouldn't look for it first here, then it needs to go to the place where you would look for it first. Go take it there now, and then you're done with that item. And that is probably even. Well, it's always. But it's probably even more important with the maximalism, because if you do have more things on display, it is easier for a thing set aside temporarily, you know, to not be noticed and to just kind of attract more stuff and more stuff and more stuff, right? Like, the reason we take it there now is if we set it aside in a pile, it's a pile. Piles attract more things on the pile. So if it's already stuff and it was artistically arranged, but now it's stuff plus, you know, an empty Kleenex box that I set aside because I was going to throw it away later, or it's stuff plus a fishing reel, you know, which is the part without the rod, right? But a fishing reel that I was going to take out to the fishing stuff at the garage, you know, and I'm just going to set it there for right now because it has more stuff on there, you know, artistically arranged then if I'm not, you know, consciously focused on this space, the fishing reel and blah, blah, and it turns into a pile of stuff, right? So it's even more important to do the take it there now. Although it's always important, right? It's still about embracing the reality of the space where I would look for it first. If I get to that space and there's no room for it, Maximalism doesn't mean. Okay, well, now I don't have to worry about my drawers closing anymore. Now I can just put stuff on top of the drawer and not actually close the drawer. That's not maximalism. Okay, Maximalism might be that, you know what? I do want more cozy sweaters than just the one or two that I had gotten it down to as a minimalist. Okay? But the drawer still needs to close, right? So if I get there and there's no space for this item that I say I would look for here first, I have to make a decision. Does this item really deserve to be in my home, or is there something I'm willing to get rid of in order to create the space? So it's still the same concept, because that's what we do. If you could take something to the place where you would look for it first and there's stuff there and it's its own mess and there's no room, then you remove something, ideally trash, which doesn't need to be in a minimalist home or a maximalist home, or an obvious donation, which doesn't need to be in a minimalist home or a maximalist home. I'm going to remove that in order to create the space. So it's still the same thing. I gotta face the reality of that space, even though the aesthetic may be different than it was before. Okay? It's still about one in one outing if there is enough room for something, right? It's still about. If I get a new pair of shoes because my old ones were too old for me to wear anymore, then I need to get rid of the ones that I'm not going to wear anymore, right? Like, because I replaced them. If I have used the shoe storage space and I get a new pair of shoes, I still have to one in, out, one and one out. I still have to create space for that new pair of shoes by getting rid of an old pair of shoes or something else that's the size of those. That new pair of shoes, right? It's still about my drawers needing to close. It's still about the container. It's possible that with a minimalist aesthetic, you liked having four books and then the rest of it open space. Great. But if you're like, oh, I'm going to go with the maximalist aesthetic, the tendency for someone like me is, I'm gonna buy all the. Oh, somebody is selling a full set on Facebook. Look at all those. Beautiful. Okay, I'm gonna buy all those. There's somebody else buying them too. I'm gonna buy all those. Oh, my goodness. My mom said she wanted to give me all. Okay. And then, hey, friends, if you have any really pretty books, blah, blah, blah. Because I'm going for the maximalist aesthetic. And then every. All those books end up at your house because, you know, you do it all at once. Because that was me. I bring all those books in and they don't fit on the shelf, then there's no hope of my home being under control. Right. If I can't get them on there. So maybe now the. The shelf is actually full of books. Great. That was always the way it could be. Okay. The only reason you might have gone less is because you needed that for it to be accessible and all that. But it still has to be. It still needs to fit within the container. That's the container concept. Because if I try to keep more stuff, then I have space. There is no hope of my house ever being under control. Right. And so therefore, I still have to embrace the container. Got it. I would love to hear from y'all how you feel about this trend. My reason that I bring this up is that I know we as we are. Okay. And I'm never saying that you're like me, Right. But I am saying there's a lot of people listening who think the same way that I do, because I hear that from you all the time. Right. So I'm just kind of giving you. Here's my perspective. I know how I am if back when. And I was completely overwhelmed in my home and trying to figure it out and struggling and not making any progress. If I would have heard this. Oh, maximalism is the thing now instead of minimiz. Minimalism, I can totally see myself going, oh, good, great. But the issue was never that I wasn't a minimalist. It was that I didn't understand the realities of how my brain works, that I have a low clutter threshold and I can't handle as much stuff as I had in my house. I simply can't manage that much stuff. I can't do it. It was never about how it looked because it didn't look good in any way. It was about the fact that it was making me bananas because it couldn't Handle all that stuff, right? And I can see myself starting to buy more and more thinking, oh, good, the maximalist aesthetic is in. Maybe once I get the right stuff, you know, someday I'll actually have all the things to put up and make it have that look that I want, right? Like, because that was my thing. I didn't like the way my house looked, right? And I liked the idea of these really cool displays of all this quirky stuff. And because my house was out of control and wasn't, I would try to decorate, but then it would turn into piles, right? And I would think, okay, well, I don't like the way my house, oh, this is a cute thing. I'm going to get that thing and bring it in, and maybe that thing will be the thing that completes it and makes it look, right? Okay, well, maybe that thing and then maybe that thing and then shouldn't I have all the things so that once I do actually get it to where I want it, I'll have all the things I need to choose from? Blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada, right? And it didn't work. The thing I needed to do was to declutter. Minimalism has never been my goal. Right. What I have realized is I just gotta go with the realities of the space. The container concept. I have to go with the realities of what I can handle. The thing that has gotten my house to where I want it to be is acceptance of reality about my space and my stuff. And as I got to that point, I've realized that is nothing to do with decor or style. Whatever the style is, however it changes, those things still stay true. Okay? Okay. I hope this was helpful. Just a reminder. Go pre order my book and then go grab your pre order bonuses, which you can download right now@aslobchemsclean.com. jesus. All right, I will talk to y'all next week. Bye.