446: ADHD & the No Mess Decluttering Process with Megs Crawford

Summary

Podcast Summary: Episode 446 – ADHD & the No Mess Decluttering Process with Megs Crawford

Introduction In Episode 446 of A Slob Comes Clean, host Dani K. White delves into the intersection of ADHD and decluttering with special guest Megs Crawford, an ADHD coach. Released on February 20, 2025, this episode explores how the No Mess Decluttering Process effectively caters to individuals with ADHD, offering practical insights and strategies to manage clutter in a way that aligns with the unique challenges posed by the disorder.

Guest Introduction: Megs Crawford Megs Crawford brings a wealth of personal and professional experience to the discussion. Diagnosed with ADHD three years prior, Meg transitioned from a corporate career and project management to become a professional organizer specializing in clients with ADHD. Her journey was inspired by her struggles with clutter and her realization that conventional organizing methods like Pinterest-perfect pantries were ineffective for those with ADHD. Meg emphasizes the importance of understanding how the ADHD brain operates to create tailored organizing solutions.

Understanding ADHD and Clutter The conversation begins with Meg explaining how ADHD impacts organizational habits:

• Hyperfocus and Procrastination: Meg describes the tendency of individuals with ADHD to hyperfocus on tasks to the detriment of other essential activities, such as eating or taking breaks. This often leads to procrastination, where tasks remain unfinished because the individual gets sidetracked by new stimuli.

  Dani K. White [02:07]: “We talk about the tendency to push through at the expense of everything else...”

• Dysregulation: Meg introduces the concept of dysregulation, where the ADHD brain is in a constant state of fight or flight, making sustained focus and emotional regulation challenging.

  Megs Crawford [14:21]: “A state of dysregulation is just when you're go, go, go...”

The No Mess Decluttering Process for ADHD Megs outlines why the No Mess Decluttering Process is particularly effective for those with ADHD:

• Follow the Breadcrumbs: ADHD minds tend to jump from one task to another, creating a trail of unfinished business. Meg advocates for putting items away immediately to prevent the accumulation of mental clutter.

  Megs Crawford [10:38]: “We follow the breadcrumbs...”

• Establishing Clear Homes for Items: By defining specific places for belongings, individuals can reduce the mental strain of remembering where things are, thus minimizing clutter-related anxiety.

  Megs Crawford [29:24]: “...your book from the rooftops is, if you are going to look for this item, where would you go first?”

Overcoming Challenges: Dysregulation and All-or-Nothing Mentality The episode delves into common obstacles faced by individuals with ADHD when decluttering:

• All-or-Nothing Mentality: Meg discusses the frustration of attempting to declutter everything at once, which often leads to burnout and abandonment of the process.

  Megs Crawford [18:27]: “...but that's really the expectation that you should go in with. But that is so overwhelming in itself.”

• Embracing Incremental Progress: Inspired by ideas from Atomic Habits, Meg emphasizes making small, manageable changes (1% improvements) that accumulate over time without overwhelming the individual.

  Megs Crawford [17:38]: “What we do with ADHD and what I lead my clients to do is start to establish some rules for yourself.”

Practical Tips and Strategies Megs offers actionable advice tailored for those with ADHD:

• Create Personalized Systems: Organizing doesn't have to follow conventional methods. Instead, it should make sense to the individual’s lifestyle and cognitive patterns.

  Megs Crawford [31:00]: “...organizing doesn't have to be where you think it should go. It gets to be what makes the most sense for you.”

• Use Visual Reminders: Keeping lists or visual cues, like Meg’s list of hobbies on her refrigerator, helps keep interests and priorities visible, aiding in managing clutter effectively.

  Megs Crawford [37:32]: “I keep a list of all the things I like to do on my refrigerator now...”

• Break Down Projects: Meg underscores the importance of dividing large projects into small, bite-sized tasks that can be completed in short time frames, reducing the feeling of being overwhelmed.

  Megs Crawford [38:53]: “...taking that large project and breaking it up into the smallest imaginable tasks possible.”

Personal Insights and Experiences Dani shares her personal journey with ADHD traits and how the No Mess Decluttering Process has been instrumental in managing her own home:

• Real-Life Application: Dani recounts her past attempts at intensive decluttering, which were unsustainable, leading to her eventual realization of the need for a more adaptable system.

  Dani K. White [02:37]: “I wasn't actually decluttering, but I was just getting everything, you know, great and perfect.”

• Embracing Flexibility: Both Dani and Meg highlight the importance of flexibility in the decluttering process, allowing for adjustments based on what works best for the individual.

Conclusion and Key Takeaways The episode wraps up with final thoughts on the synergy between ADHD and the No Mess Decluttering Process:

• Tailored Approaches are Essential: Understanding the unique ways in which ADHD affects organizational habits is crucial for developing effective decluttering strategies.
• Progress Over Perfection: Emphasizing small, consistent steps rather than seeking immediate perfection can lead to sustainable results.
• Support Systems: Utilizing professional help and community support can reinforce progress and provide accountability.

Megs Crawford [40:44]: “...there's nothing wrong with that.”

• Encouragement to Persist: Meg encourages listeners to experiment with the process multiple times, adjusting as necessary rather than giving up at the first sign of difficulty.

Megs Crawford [39:30]: “...maybe try it again. How many times did you try it before it didn't work for you?”

Final Thoughts Episode 446 offers valuable insights into managing clutter for individuals with ADHD, emphasizing the need for personalized, flexible approaches that respect the cognitive challenges unique to ADHD. With Megs Crawford's expertise and Dani K. White's relatable experiences, listeners are equipped with the knowledge and motivation to embark on their own decluttering journeys effectively.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Dani K. White [02:07]: “We talk about the tendency to push through at the expense of everything else...”
• Megs Crawford [10:38]: “We follow the breadcrumbs...”
• Megs Crawford [14:21]: “A state of dysregulation is just when you're go, go, go...”
• Megs Crawford [17:38]: “What we do with ADHD and what I lead my clients to do is start to establish some rules for yourself.”
• Megs Crawford [29:24]: “...your book from the rooftops is, if you are going to look for this item, where would you go first?”
• Megs Crawford [31:00]: “...organizing doesn't have to be where you think it should go. It gets to be what makes the most sense for you.”
• Megs Crawford [37:32]: “I keep a list of all the things I like to do on my refrigerator now...”
• Megs Crawford [38:53]: “...taking that large project and breaking it up into the smallest imaginable tasks possible.”
• Megs Crawford [40:44]: “...there's nothing wrong with that.”
• Megs Crawford [39:30]: “...maybe try it again. How many times did you try it before it didn't work for you?”

Resources Mentioned:

• Decluttering at the Speed of Life by Dani K. White
• Megs Crawford’s website: mindfulmegs.com
• Atomic Habits by James Clear

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of Episode 446, providing listeners with a clear understanding of how ADHD intersects with decluttering and the practical methodologies that can aid in creating a more organized and less overwhelming living space.

Transcript

[Dani K. White]

Hey, y'all. As you know, my new book, Jesus Doesn't Care about yout Messy House is out. It's available wherever books are sold. If you're in the Dallas area, I would love to meet you on Tuesday, February 25th at 6pm for a book discussion and signing at Interrabang Books, which is located at 5600 West Lovers Lane in Dallas. Please come. I would love to meet you. Welcome to A Slob Comes Clean, the podcast. I am Dani K. White. I share my personal deslobification process as I figure out ways to keep my own home under control. I share the truth about cleaning and organizing strategies that actually work in real life for real people. People who don't love cleaning and organizing. Thanks for joining me today. This is podcast number 446 and I am going to call it ADHD and the no Mess Decluttering Process with Meg's Crawford. Okay, so this is an interview that I did with an ADHD coach. She'd had me on her podcast to talk about the no Mess Decluttering process and how well it works with the people that she works with and the reasons why. She's a big fan of the process. And I was like, well, can you come on and talk about ADHD and why this no mess decluttering process is so, so effective for those who have adhd. And she was all about it. And so she came on and many of y'all have diagnosed me with adhd, thank you very much. I've never been officially diagnosed, but I do know, and I say with confidence, that this process works exceptionally well for those with adhd. Because you have told me that so many of you have. I mean, I get emails all the time that say this is the only process that's ever worked for me because I have adhd. So a couple of things that we talk about in this episode that have been rumbling around in my brain that also make me go, okay, maybe I do have some degree of these challenges, right? And that is one of them is the.

[Megan Crawford]

We talk about the. The tendency to push through at the.

[Dani K. White]

Expense of everything else, right? She talked about, you know, getting so in the zone on working something that we don't stop to eat, we don't stop to drink water. We, you know, are like, have to go to the bathroom and are like, still just holding it, holding. Cause I got to finish this project or whatever. And I'm like, yeah, I get that. Right. I also think that's one of the things that, you know, I talk a lot about my method of working on my house was to block everything else out and do nothing else for an entire weekend.

[Meg's Crawford]

And.

[Dani K. White]

And of course, I wasn't actually decluttering, but I was just getting everything, you know, great and perfect. And then I couldn't maintain that well. And then I had kids, and then it wasn't even possible for me to do that anymore. So as life continues to happen, it just made me go, oh, so that's a trait. Okay. The other one that was real interesting is she talks about this ability to pivot, which is a great thing. Right. But it's made me think about, you know, my husband and I. I would say this is one of our challenges in our communication is I'm always ready to pivot. I'm always ready to be like, okay.

[Megan Crawford]

Well, this is what we could do.

[Dani K. White]

Oh, you know what?

[Megan Crawford]

Actually, we could do this. No, actually we could do this.

[Dani K. White]

Right? And sometimes he's like, whoa, hold on. I was just thinking about this one thing. We can't just pivot. And he says it nicer than that. But I find myself being like, what is the big deal? Let's just change and do that. And I went, oh, this is one of those differences between us. And so I think it's really powerful to kind of understand some of these things and. And to hear it from Meg. So I think you're going to enjoy this interview that I did with Megs on ADHD and the no mess decluttering process. It's been about three years since we moved from our house in town to our country home. Finding the best way to arrange furniture has been a challenge. Within the last six months, I've rearranged both of our living areas completely. So I love the idea behind Cozy, a furniture company that brings adaptable, high quality furniture to everyday living spaces. Modern living made simple for you. So their pieces are built for real homes. Their furniture is designed to evolve alongside your lifestyle. The modular sofa collections let customers start small, maybe a love seat, and expand to large configurations like a sectional you can arrange and rearrange to suit your space and function. Furniture from Cozy is durable, able to be disassembled and reassembled multiple times without losing stability or sturdiness. It's perfect for families who move often or hope to grow into a bigger space. Transform your living space today with cozy. Visit cozy.com spelled C O Z E Y to start customizing your furniture. That's cozy.com welcome.

[Megan Crawford]

Thank you so much for coming on Megs. So I was on your podcast fairly recently and we were talking about adhd. We were talking about the no Mess process. And I love that you have a lot of experience with it and you have a lot of experience with adhd, because this is going to come as a complete shock to you, I'm sure, but a lot of my audience tells me that they have adhd. A lot of my audience actually tells me that I have adhd, but I have never been diagnosed. So tell us what your background and expertise is in the area of adhd.

[Meg's Crawford]

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for having me on. I'm honored to be a guest on your podcast. I was diagnosed with ADHD almost three years ago now. And at that point in time, I was working in the corporate world and I was working through my master's degree in project management. I just got my certification. That was the path I was going to climb the ladder in the corporate world. But for some reason, and now I know the path I'm on, it made sense to leave. And at one point I started working with a career coach and I wanted to do something so much more. Now, while I was getting my degree and also working through the corporate world, I was going through the process of decluttering my home and having a not so great time of it. But I have always been just a very messy person, which is why I related to your book so much. I'm like, oh, this woman is a genius. But I had been going through the process. So of course when I left the corporate world, I'm like, I'm going to be a professional organizer. That's what I wanted to do. And I had known a couple friends doing it. And then of course, the home edit was out. So my goal was to become a professional organizer, putting together Pinterest perfect pantries, you know, picture worthy spaces in your home that you could share with the world. I also decided to start a podcast around that time. You'll find we love to do all the things instead of just one thing. And I just found that as I started working with people and most of my clients tended to be people with adhd, that the Pinterest perfect pantries idea that I had was not going to work for people with adhd. Not at least at first. And when I first went into homes expecting that I would be able to organize for people, I quickly found out that without working one on one with people, then I would lose out on really helping people make a difference in their home. And so what I found for myself is that as far as the clutter goes, it's so incredibly overwhelming and we look at it as this one whole clutter. It's not like all of these individual items that we're going to take here and there and all of this other stuff, but ultimately it's this one big clutter. And it's hard to know where to start. And so the way that I got started in my journey with organizing is starting my podcast and interviewed literally anyone who would talk to me about ADHD and organizing. I probably read about 15 books leading up to my journey into organizing, yours being one of them, of course, being well versed in the Marie Kondo method and looking into the home edit all of these different versions of decluttering and letting go. And I am at the point where I'm at now. So I am a coach for women with ADHD who want to let go in their home. And it's really just about learning how your brain works so that you can work with it instead of against it. And I'll give you more specifics, but that's me in a nutshell, to start, right?

[Megan Crawford]

And I think that's fantastic. And I think that. I think that we all relate to that. Oh, this is something I'm into. How can I turn it into something more like, I feel like that is such a thing that we have in common. We want to expand it, make it bigger, do even more. So I love hearing your story of how you've done that. So when we talked before, we talked about the no mess process, right? From decluttering at the speed of life. So you talked about how it works really well with adhd. And the thing that I hear from people, I was just telling you before we started recording, but I get two different emails consistently from people, and some of them will say, and these are the fewer ones, honestly will say, I can't do the take it there now method because I have ADHD and I will get distracted and I'll never finish. Right? And then I get a lot more emails from people who say I have to do the take it there now method. It's the only one that works for me because I have adhd. And the difference between those two emails, honestly, is the people who've tried it, Right? But because I. I am not an ADHD expert, I don't. I know from what I've heard from people and what people tell me again and again and again. I have worked, I have a. And hopefully it's coming out really soon. We have a professional development course for mental health professionals who work with ADHD clients specifically about why this method works. So well, but I want to hear it from you. Like how does the take it there now why is that an effective method for those with adhd?

[Meg's Crawford]

Oh absolutely. So you know, if you set something down and you don't put it away, you have now procrastinated doing what you need to do. The thought of you coming back to that today to put it away non existent, it's not going to happen. Because what happens in our brain is we follow the breadcrumbs, right? So like I start in my kitchen and I start to fiddle around with the towels and I decide, oh, I need to start a load of laundry. And so I go to start a load of laundry and from there I notice that there's clean laundry. So I get a basket and I bring it to my room and I'm like, now's the time that I need to fold my laundry. Except that then I hear the dogs barking. So I go to what the dogs are barking at, so on and so on and so forth. So I'm following this trail of breadcrumbs. Now there's a lot of different things that could happen here. You could write it down, maybe you could set a reminder in your phone, but that's creating more work than just putting it away right now. So what I would say to the people who have ADHD and that method is seemingly not working for them right now, I would say a couple things. So first off, you know what's best for you in the moment. And it could be that they're not ready to challenge the status quo. And what I mean by that is we are inundated with so much information on social media, on YouTube, TikTok, so on and so forth with so many people out there saying that well, I have adhd, I can't do that. Well, I have adhd, that's the only thing that will work with for me. But what's wrong with that and the difficulty with that is that we are all still different, we're all still individual people where we have to figure out what works for us and we hate it when we're not good at something right away. So like trying a new technology or for example, organizing, I can't tell you how many times I organized a space and then I would fail and I would be like, why would I even bother trying this again? But I was so determined. And the truth is is that every time I went at it, I would build this foundation where I continued to learn more and more about what I needed to do to stay organized. Part of it was Just having less, which was key in my case. But we hate it when we're not good at something right away. It doesn't bring us the dopamine that we feel. In fact, it brings us like anxiety and yucky feelings because we don't like not being good at something right away. So if you're taking something and you get distracted by something else, that's okay because that happens sometimes. That's the nature of our brain. We have an interest based nervous system. And so we're going to follow the breadcrumbs where they lead us. But what we do with ADHD and what I lead my clients to do is start to establish some rules for yourself. If you are going to declutter your home or even just picking up or putting things away, put blinders on. You have those figurative blinders on like a horse would. And you're like, you look at the item and you're like, I'm going to take this item and I'm going to put it where it goes, right? And if it doesn't have a home, asking yourself that question, where would I go to look for this if I were trying to find it? And part of it is just trying to take a step back. But to that point as well, we get dysregulated very easily. And when we're in a state of dysregulation, it's hard to stop to ask ourselves those questions that we need to ask in order for things to have a home.

[Megan Crawford]

Can you explain what you mean by dysregulation?

[Meg's Crawford]

Yeah, absolutely. I'll give you an example in a story. So dysregulation, not being a doctor, but let me tell you how it looks like for me. My husband was gone the other weekend. He had this incredible event in Florida which meant that I was going to be home with the kids by myself. Now, on one hand, this is a great opportunity for me to relax with the kids and make some, some memories. But for some reason, I was so uncomfortable with him being gone and didn't take a step back to take care of myself, but instead immersed myself in a garage project. I was like, today is the day that, you know, we're just gonna move some things around, we're gonna get some more stuff out of the house. And I was probably in the garage for about four or five hours, working without taking a bathroom break, taking a drink of water, and I saw the car wash. And I was like, oh, I think now is the best time to wash the car. And in the back of my mind, My brain was like, don't do that right now, Megan. You are really tired. And that's exactly what I did. I went and washed the car. So of course now the garage is clean, the car is washed, but I am exhausted and I'm overwhelmed and I'm getting shorter with my kids and I'm not the best version of myself. So a state of dysregulation is just when you're go, go, go, go, go, constantly picking up the next breadcrumb and, and getting it done until you literally can't function anymore. That's part of why, I don't know if you've ever heard of this in the ADHD community. They're like, don't sit down, just don't sit down. And then you'll be able to get everything done. And I'm like, ah, yes, that can be true. Right? But that's a state of dysregulation that we're in. And if you're interested in more about the regulation aspect of things, I really highly recommend ADHD with Jennifer. She's a therapist out of Canada and she talks about regulation with adhd and I interviewed her on the podcast. It's fascinating stuff.

[Megan Crawford]

Well, and I, I see that as the all or nothing mentality. It's like, I can't stop. But the beauty to me, the reason I need to use the no mess process, only progress, is that I can. It allows me to stop at any moment. Because when I would try to push through and then fail, it felt like, okay, I gave it literally everything I have and, and I failed. And that just made it so hard to ever start again in the future to do, you know, to do any of that. So I think that, that the other thing you were talking about earlier, as far as that was it was just making me think about. It's really important to me to do the non committal experimentation, right? Like allowing myself to experiment, allowing myself to try. Which goes against that feeling of, oh, no, I'm not good at it. Right? Because I'm like, you know what? I'm just trying it. I'm just seeing if it works. I'm seeing if this is something that will work for me. And having that mentality gives me the permission to give it a shot. Right?

[Meg's Crawford]

Yeah, it's just giving ourselves permission to try it. But just a little bit, like, I think about, oh my gosh, Atomic Habits all the Time with James Clear. And some of that book truly resonated with me, some of it didn't. But one thing he said is talking about 1% changes every single day. And what's that 1% change that you can make to make a difference, but it doesn't feel like you're making a difference right now. But we do have that all or nothing mentality. People with ADHD know what the end result looks like. We just want that organized space. But the thing is, is that it can't be done in a weekend. It can't be done even in a month. And that's why so many of the programs out there are so long. Like I think you have a program for a year, isn't it?

[Megan Crawford]

Maybe I we have the take your house back course, which you have it, but people have been in it for years and. Yeah, but you have a year at a time.

[Meg's Crawford]

Yeah, yeah, it's fascinating, right? But that's, that's really the expectation that you should go in with. But that is so overwhelming in itself. Like first, I'm not good at this. Second I know I want to get it done this weekend. And third, you're telling me that it's going to take a year. Why would I even start? And so it's that kind of mentality that holds us back from making that progress and seeing just a little bit at a time versus doing it all at once.

[Dani K. White]

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[Megan Crawford]

Importance, you know, the. The goal that I encourage people to make is to have less, like, make this space better. Specifically those with adhd. How does an excess of stuff contribute to the struggles that they have, you know, due to the adhd? I don't know if that's the right way to say it or not.

[Meg's Crawford]

Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah. So ADHD stands for Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder. And so oftentimes the hyperactivity is happening up here. And so our brains work faster than normal, which means that we're thinking about one thing and then we're on to the next thing. And sometimes it's fun to kind of trace it back, like, how did I get there from there? There's so many different ways. And we bounce and we bounce and we bounce. Sometimes it's anxiety ridden, sometimes it's, you're going on a doom train down into, like, just beating yourself up for no darn reason. But that is what your brain looks like on the surface inside. When you think about your physical stuff. It's a representation of what's going on up here. It's a physical representation, which means that it's going to distract, it's going to overwhelm, and it's going to create shame in a way that doesn't support us. I gave a presentation the other day about how clutter can actually inspire. And I thought that was interesting. And I got to thinking about it more. I'm like, yeah, but at what level? Like, at what level is the clutter still inspiring versus taking away from, you know, who you are as a person? What I found for me is that the level of clutter I had distracted me. Everywhere I went, when I would make dinner, there was clutter that was beckoning me, saying, you need to do something about this. When I would put my kids to bed at night, there was clutter that was telling me, you need to do something about it. But it was something that was constantly on my mind and constantly being procrastinated. And so it just creates an additional level of overwhelm. I also believe that people with ADHD can be organized, but we've just never been taught in a way that works or our brains. We've just been taught that, hey, it's great to have less. Try it.

[Megan Crawford]

Well, I think, you know, one of the things I always tell people is that the people who are saying, I mean, there are a lot of people out there who will say, you can't function in clutter. And the reality is I can absolutely function in clutter. And that's part of my problem. Right. Like, is there are a lot of people who are like, before I can do this thing, I have to clear the clutter. And I occasionally wish that I was that way, except that the clutter never even occurs to me. I throw myself in, and I can function great inside of clutter until all of a sudden, I can't. And it hits this moment where, okay, now it's too much. Now I'm overwhelmed. And then that's why I had to come up with this process, was to work through that feeling of being overwhelmed because I would just be completely stopped from doing anything. So I had to figure out how to get started. Right. But I feel think it's that. That's part of the miscommunication from the people who are naturally organized to the person who is naturally. Lots of stuff, you know, is that we're talking about two different things. You know, like, yes, it is definitely helpful to have the clutter be gone, but it's the reason we don't understand where they're coming from is that we're not the same. We don't. We are able to go ahead and think and function with a bunch of stuff around.

[Meg's Crawford]

Yeah. I love to tell the story about angry cleaning. Have you ever angry cleaned before?

[Megan Crawford]

I mean, it's happened, but I'm not a huge angry cleaner. But I definitely. Yeah, I've cleaned it with a bad attitude, for sure.

[Meg's Crawford]

Yeah. So I used to be an angry cleaner. And there was. I think this was about a year and a half ago, I started to angry clean. I was down on the floor scrubbing the floorboards because I got to the point that I was so overwhelmed with the stuff that I just didn't know how to contain myself. And that's a state of dysregulation. Like, my nervous system was in fight or flight, and I was in fight. But I took a step back, and it was through all the work that I had been doing, and I took. I looked at everything on the counter, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. Like, we have no systems in place for any of this. We have no, like, regular routine where we clean up this or do this or do that. So, like, how could I possibly be angry at anyone else in this house, including myself? This is just the way that we've been living because we're following the breadcrumbs. We're living life kind of without a plan, the way that we were taught how. Now, in order for us to change things, we have to consciously make a change. We can't follow the breadcrumbs anymore. We've got to stop ourselves and start to learn new aspects about living and how to put things away. And putting things away by creating homes at the same time and understanding that it can't all be done at once, which, again, is so frustrating. But I do find that that's so fascinating because so many of my clients are like, I'm just so done being overwhelmed. But at that point, because you're so right, it is like we can function with clutter. It doesn't mean that we're not full of anxiety. It doesn't mean that it doesn't bother us. It's just that it's so easy to ignore it and put blinders on until someone's coming over, Right? And then you're like, ah, now I'm so aware of my clutter, I can't believe it. And then there's so much shame because how could we be living this life where we haven't done anything about it? Now someone's coming over, they're gonna see us. They're going to see who we really are. It's a state of chaos. And chaos stands for can't have anyone over syndrome, which is, yeah, something I suffered from for so long. And, yeah, it's fascinating.

[Megan Crawford]

What have you found from the five step process works the best with your clients?

[Meg's Crawford]

Oh, my gosh, I love the question. I talk about this on my podcast all the time. I literally, I am shouting, your book from the rooftops is, if you are going to look for this item, where would you go first? And I love the way that you describe it in your book and the way that you explain that it's two different parts of our brain. Right. The way that where you would go to look for something is totally different than where you would go to put it away. Because with can't have anyone over syndrome, if you're trying to get things ready for people to come over, you're not looking for homes for things. You're not decluttering, you're not being purposeful. You're just putting stuff away and trying to get it out of sight so that you can have clear countertops, so that you can create this illusion of what this house is. Right. But I love using this with my clients because it starts to help establish the homes for things. I talked to another ADHD decluttering coach. She has autism as well. She was telling me a story about her grandmother who bought these amazing pair of scissors for sewing, and they were so sharp, she didn't want anyone else to use them, so she hid them. And then she couldn't find them. So she searched high and low. She searched everywhere for these scissors. And then she went shopping to get herself a new pair of scissors and went to go hide them again and found the original pair of scissors. So it's just so fascinating the way that our brain works and we love to over complicate things.

[Megan Crawford]

Yeah.

[Meg's Crawford]

Instead of keeping it simple. And so that's the one question I, I even make. Some of my clients will try to give me an answer, and I can tell that they're just trying to give me an answer. So I'm like, you close your eyes. You close your eyes and I want you to think, you don't have this in your hand right now. Where are you going to go look for it? And it's fascinating how the answer changes. And I think what's really neat about this too, is that with adhd, organizing doesn't have to be where you think it should go. It gets to be what makes the most sense for you. Like, I have another client who keeps work clothes in the dining room in one of those, like, Tupperware things, because that made the most sense for getting ready in the morning because they didn't want to wake up their significant other upstairs. And it has created so much less stress for them to keep that in that space. But they know where everything is. It's just so neat how you get to decide what organizing means to you instead of looking at Pinterest. I mean, you can get ideas still, but.

[Megan Crawford]

Well, yeah, and I, I do think that there's so much of that comes from having not felt successful in this area in the past. And so you don't trust yourself. You know, that's what I hear from a lot of people, is they're like, but I, I don't know where I would look for it first. And I'm like, let's be clear. We're not saying where would it be, because that's what it. It feels like I should be asking. It's like, no, you really don't know. That's actually the answer we're going for.

[Dani K. White]

Is where is the first place where.

[Megan Crawford]

You would go looking for it at the beginning of what you assume is this long, you know, search for it. But it's that learning to trust ourselves, like, it becomes something that every time you do find something in the first place where you look for it, it's a bigger deal when you have struggled your whole life with Clutter. Right. Than it would be for somebody who's like, well, of course, you know, yeah, I put it away, so now it's there. No, I mean like actually finding things in the first place changes how you feel about your house, how you feel about your stuff, how you feel about yourself. And then the next time I'm more and more excited and it becomes easier and easier and easier. Even though it was always instinct, it was never a decision I had to figure out. But still trusting that instinct becomes quicker and easier for sure.

[Meg's Crawford]

Absolutely.

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[Meg's Crawford]

I think to that point too, the one, the one time it doesn't work because I have worked with a couple people in their, in their bigger homes, right, for longer periods of time is if we do have to switch things around, if we are trying to make more sense of the space and we're actually having to move things. And it's hilarious because I'll ask them that question. They'll, they'll be like, well, in the drawer that we just put all the cat food in. And I'm like that, you know, So I think I always say if you're.

[Megan Crawford]

Trying to clear out this space, you know, people will say, they love to say, well I would look for the screwdriver on my coffee table. And I'm like, okay, but that's not our goal, right? Like, our goal is for the coffee table to be clear. So if the coffee table is clear, then where would you look for it? First you have to take that space out of the equation. But I think that that gets easier. The less stuff that you have and the more that you've trusted yourself and you have an awareness of what you have and where it is, then you are at a point where you'll be able to switch things around more easily because there's just. You're not having to constantly try to remember all the things.

[Meg's Crawford]

Exactly to that point. I will say most of my clients have about 15 hobbies that I learned within the first couple sessions. And a lot of those hobbies aren't being done because they're in unclear spaces. They don't know where to go to get them. And if they were to get it out to use them, it's harder to put away because it doesn't really have a clearly defined home. And for our creative brains, where we love to do everything, what are those hobbies? What are those things? And, you know, coming back to like a vision, what is the vision for the space? What do you actually want in this space? And it helps to make those decisions to let go and to have less and just to make sense of it all.

[Megan Crawford]

Yeah. And also clear space to do the things. Because it's, you know, if I'm wanting to quilt, that actually requires a lot of empty space.

[Meg's Crawford]

Yeah.

[Megan Crawford]

Where nothing is being stored. Because if you think about if I'm making a queen size quilt, that's the amount of space that I need with nothing else in it so that I can work on this queen size. I'm not a quilter, so maybe you do it other ways. But in my mind, in my mind, that's what I imagine, you know, you do, but you need space to do art, to do projects, to do things.

[Meg's Crawford]

Yeah. And I will say, you know, something about the ADHD brain I find fascinating is our working memory. So, like, we know what we're doing in the moment and here and now. And I could pull things out of the archives of my brain, but there's some things that we're not reminded of on a regular basis. And so like our hobbies, for example, we forget what we're really excited about if it's not right in front of us. Right. It's like it's got to be out in front of us or it's not existent. And so I. I keep a list of all the things I like to do on my refrigerator now so that I'm like, oh, I know that I like to do this. Maybe I do have time for this.

[Megan Crawford]

Right.

[Meg's Crawford]

But it's creating different things like that that can help inspire you and, and remind you why you're letting go of the things that aren't as inspiring in the moment as well. But I find that working memory is so fascinating. Even with my clients who've been working with me for a long time will forget how much progress they've made. So coming back to the progress aspect, that's why we love the results right away, because it gives us that dopamine hit right away, but the progress, it's not as much and then we forget how far we've come. And so that's why I love, like working with you or any of your decluttering coaches, why I recommend it so much, because we can remind you of that. We help remind you how far you've come, the foundation that you've built, the things that you now know, because there will come a point where you hit a dip and you start to doubt yourself again. You don't believe that that's a real possibility to be decluttered in your home. And that's where we come in. We're like, yes, you can. We're living proof and we're guiding you through the process.

[Dani K. White]

Yeah, yeah.

[Megan Crawford]

Bringing them back to what they already know, reminding them and keeping them on track. I think that's such the, the power of this.

[Meg's Crawford]

So.

[Megan Crawford]

Well, thank you so much for this. Is there anything else that you wanted to say that you wanted to cover before we wrap up?

[Meg's Crawford]

Yeah, well, I, you know, I was thinking as we were talking, you wanted me to come on to talk about more of the ADHD terms. And one thing that I will say is when you think about the larger project, we have trouble with executive function. And executive function means taking that large project and breaking it up into the smallest imaginable tasks possible. Things that are bite sized, things that we can do in five, 10 or 15 minutes and focusing on that versus trying to do it all in a day. So that's what I love about your method as well. Because, you know, starting with the trash and saying, oh, well, if I just go through and gather all the trash, that's one thing that I've done and now I can check it off the list. And we love being able to check things off lists and say that I've done this, I and, and I'm capable of doing more, but that's one thing that I know I've done and then I can move on and get to the next level and to the next level. So I love the way that you have it spelled out and is a very clear process for people to follow. Because it's. It's just. It makes it easy. And I think that that's where a lot of people with ADHD get stuck, is that even if they do make progress, they get stuck because they're like, now what? I don't know what I did. And so now how do I go about this again? And so thank you for your method. Whether it's for a neurotypical brain or an ADHD brain or anyone out there, I think that it's so helpful. And for those who have said that, you know, it doesn't work for them, maybe try it again. How many times did you try it before it didn't work for you? You know, and from there, did you ask yourself, where did I go wrong and what didn't work for me? Have you evaluated that? Because those are the questions we need to be asking ourselves as we're going through this process. And everyone's going to be a little bit different, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Megan Crawford]

Yeah. Yeah. You have to figure out what does work for you. And the real only way to do that is actually taking the action and going through it. And most of the time when people say they're not saying it didn't work for them, they're saying it wouldn't work for them, they're predicting how it would go. And I am familiar with that because that is how I roll.

[Dani K. White]

Right.

[Megan Crawford]

Like, I wanted to have the plan that took me all the way from everything being out and disastrous to everything being perfection, and I wanted to know exactly how that plan was going to go. And I put so much time and mental energy into the plan without actually doing anything and used up all my energy just on the plan, and then it didn't get me anywhere. And then also when I would try that plan and it didn't go perfectly, then I would give up.

[Meg's Crawford]

Yeah.

[Megan Crawford]

Well, this has been fun. Tell people where they can find you.

[Meg's Crawford]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, my website is mindfulmegs.com and you can find my podcast there, too. It's organizing an ADHD brain. I'm on Apple Podcasts. Spotify. Yeah. And check me out there. You can find all my socials there as well. Thank you so much for having me on. I. I told you this before, but I'm like, I can't believe I'm on your podcast. I love you so much, and I'm so. I just admire you so much for all the work you've done.

[Megan Crawford]

Well, thank you. Thank you so much. And thank you for giving us the. The terms and the understanding of what it is that's going on in the brain that makes it a challenge. But also, now we understand what those challenges are so we can tackle them.

[Meg's Crawford]

Heck, yeah.

[Dani K. White]

Wasn't that fun?

[Meg's Crawford]

Yeah.

[Dani K. White]

You can find links to Meg in the show notes. And of course, the Nomes decluttering process is in great detail in Decluttering at the Speed of Life. And don't forget that my newest book is now out there for to read it or listen to it. And don't forget, if you would like.

[Megan Crawford]

To have somebody guide you through this.

[Dani K. White]

Process, I have decluttering [e-mail] those are all trained and certified decluttering coaches, trained and certified by me in the no Mess process. So go find them there.

[Meg's Crawford]

All right.

[Dani K. White]

I'll talk to you next week.

[Megan Crawford]

Bye.