← podcasts Archives - Dana K. White: A Slob Comes Clean
podcasts Archives - Dana K. White: A Slob Comes Clean
452: How to Be Convinced to Declutter
00:40:07
Getting started is the hardest part. So how do you actually take that first step? How can you move from understanding how to declutter to actually decluttering? My books Want to be a patron of the show? Find out how at Patreon.
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- [00:00]
Dani K. White
Hey, y'all.
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Unknown Author
I wanted to be sure you know that my fourth book is now available wherever books are sold. This is the book where I tackle the spiritual side of my desalabification process. My first three books don't have any spiritual content. They're full of the strategies that will take you from overwhelmed in your home to knowing exactly what to do to get your house under control. But this new book, Jesus Doesn't Care about yout Messy House, deals with the shame that so many of us feel over our messiness. My goal is to help you find freedom from that shame so you can move forward. Go to aslobcomes clean.com book book to find links to all my books in all of their formats.
- [00:35]
Dani K. White
Welcome to A Slob Comes Clean, the podcast. I am Dani K. White. I share my personal DES lobification process as I figure out ways to keep my own home under control. I share the truth about cleaning and organizing strategies that actually work in real life for real people. People who don't love cleaning and organizing. Thanks for joining me today. This is podcast number 452, and I think I'm going to call it how to Be Convinced to Declutter. Now, before you get too excited, let's just kind of analyze that title real quick. Okay, I'm saying how to be convinced, meaning the person who is the person I am talking to is the person who wants to be convinced the person I'm talking to. So that's who my invisible intended audience is as I say these words into this podcast. Okay, is I am talking to the person who wants to be convinced to be. Wants to be convinced to declutter. I know that a lot of you probably got excited when you saw this title and you were like, she's finally going to tell us how to convince other people to declutter. We'll talk about that at the end. But spoiler, I'm not going to change the thing I've always said, which is we can't control other people. But there are things that I have observed in my own home, you have observed in your homes and you've told me, and I know from my own experience seem to affect other people in changing their view of stuff. But there is not a way that I'm going to give you to say magic words that are going to make someone go, I'm ready to declutter. Okay? And yet all of this has value. Okay, and we'll talk at the end about how what we're talking about right now today does affect those other People who you want to be convinced to declutter. Okay? So anyway, I'm talking to you, the person who wants to be convinced to declutter. Person who wants to declutter. But if you are in a situation, which I know a lot of you are because you tell me these stories, if you're in a situation where someone wants to declutter and asks for advice, these are the things that you need to keep in mind. Because you know my methods, you understand the power of the no mess decluttering process. Okay, but. So these are things to keep in mind.
- [03:10]
Capital One Bank Guy
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks. Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply. See capitalone.com bank capital one, NA member, FDIC.
- [03:39]
Dani K. White
Okay, so merriam webster.com. that's a dictionary. Okay. Do you remember her? Anyway, it's probably a man's name. I don't know. Anyway, whatever. Merriam Webster. Who? Whomever that was. The meaning of convince, according to Miriam Webster's dictionary, the meaning of convince is to bring parentheses, as by argument and parentheses to belief, consent, or a course of action. Okay? To bring to belief, consent, or a course of action. Like, to bring myself to this point where I'm actually doing the thing. This is the tipping point, okay? This is the point where perhaps if you've been listening to my podcast for 451 episodes and today is your 452nd episode to listen to, or if you've listened to five, or this is your first one, or whatever, and you are ready to declutter. You want to declutter. You have an interest in it. Maybe it's just I'm overwhelmed in my home. I don't know. Or I'm at rock bottom. I mean, I hear from so many of you, so many of you who went into the podcast app and just typed in words and found me. Okay, so I get it. But whatever brought you here right now, the goal in this, how to be convinced to declutter, is how to get yourself to the point where you tip over into action. Okay? You move into actual movement and doing of the thing, because I know how it is. I also tend to be the researcher who wants all the information and I want to figure it out. And one of the things I see That I saw, that I realized was part of my own problem in my dislabification process, but that I see, and a lot of others is, okay, I. I get it. I get it. But I really want to know exactly how it's all going to go, how it's going to turn out from this starting point right now to the very end when everything is done. And I. I want to know the time that it's going to take. I want to know the actions I'm going to need to take. I'm doing that. And instead, the actual hardest thing is that very first step. Okay. And yet I don't believe it's helpful for me to end at, you got to take that first step. That's true. Okay. That's a, you know, inspirational statement that you'll see some version of all over the Internet is, you know, the hardest step to take is the first one. Great, true. But what is the first step? And then how do I actually make myself move my foot and do that? Like, what brings me to the point of moving my foot to take the first step? Okay, so this is the tipping point where we tip over from learning about something and hearing about it and nodding our heads and going, yes, that makes sense. To actually start doing the thing. Okay. I. I picture it as the roller coaster that goes, you know, on the. The older ones especially, but all of them, I guess, really. But it's that click, click, click, click, click when you're going straight up. I actually remember the Judge Roy scream at Six Flags when I. It was first roller coaster I ever rode. And that click, click, click, click, click going up where you feel like you're. I mean, now I look back and I think, wow, that's not even that big of a roller coaster. But you know what I mean? Like, it felt like we were just going straight into the sky, and it's building that anticipation. It's necessary. I had to go, click, click, click, click, click. But when you go over the top and then all of a sudden you're going super fast where the momentum happens. That tipping point, that's what I'm picturing, okay, Is when we tip over and we start really rolling, we start really doing the thing. Because the click, click, click is not the exciting part of the roller coaster. It's not the roller coaster. It's the thing to get started, okay? Then we get the momentum, then we actually do that. I do want to be clear that I. I struggle with this, okay? I really struggle on all kinds of things, of thinking that the answer to Getting started is going to be hitting rock bottom. Like, like I think, well, I'm just need, you know, someday I'm going to hit rock bottom and I'll have to do something. There are very few things where that has actually been true and I can't, I have had to accept and I still struggle with it. Okay, So I just want to be clear. I'm not like completely on the other side on this. The things I've really made changes on in my life were things where I, I stopped waiting for rock bottom because I, I want it anyway. I don't know, I feel like you'll know what I mean. Right? But, but that, that rock bot looking for rock bottom is not the goal. Not that we don't hit hit rock bottom sometimes in certain things, but I don't want that to be my goal and I, I have to resist that because I do think I'm like, well, someday I'll hit that and then I won't be able to change. I mean I won't be able to help but change and blah blah. But I'm very thankful for the things that I do change before. Before I hit rock bottom. Right. So the, and if we're thinking of like these visuals of the tipping point going up, up, up, up, up, tipping point where then we go over that thing and we are on the roller coaster and we've got the momentum and the fun and the wind blowing through our hair and things are actually happening and blah blah, blah and all the like. That's a very different visual picture than rock bottom, right? Because rock bottom is not going to have any kind of immediate momentum because rock bottom is going to require climbing out. And when I picture that, I picture something where it's difficult to climb out, right? So that click, click, click, click, click and then hitting the tipping point. Much preferable, right? Very, very definitely preferable. Okay. So things that convince. How to be convinced to declutter. Knowing that there is an actual strategy, okay, Removing the ambiguity of I've got too much stuff, I need to get rid of my stuff. You know, there are people who, and I know this as someone who writes books about decluttering and at random situations and parties where I. People ask me what I do for a living and somehow I can't avoid the question enough and they end up finding, I write about decluttering. Like people will say things like, well, is that just like get rid of your stuff because you need to get rid of your stuff. Like as if. Okay, that, that's it, that's all, yeah, the people who struggle. It's just that nobody's ever told them that. Nobody's ever said, oh, just get rid of your stuff. Okay, well, I guess I didn't need to write 60,000 words in a book about it. Right. Like, I. I understand when it's something that's not difficult for you, you don't have to think so hard about it. Right. And so I understand why people would have that idea. But for the person who struggles, if the person who doesn't struggle, who they think, well, they don't struggle. And so they should be the one who is able to tell me what to do. And they're saying, I will just, you know, get rid of your stuff. That's not a strategy. Yes, it is what needs to be done, but it's not a strategy. It doesn't actually help me get rid of my stuff. It doesn't help me make any decisions. So knowing that one way to be convinced, to declutter, to move to the point of course of action, is understanding that there is a legitimate strategy. I love the stories from y'all of the people in your home or in your lives who start using the terms that you're using. Like, oh, okay, somebody just wish I had it in front of me. But just recently, I can't remember if it was an email or a comment or something, but someone was telling me about their young child who was like, oh, this room is messy. Well, let's start with the trash. Okay, let's. And, like, went through the whole process and it picked it up. That's because you're verbalizing as you're going, but which is kind of one of the things we're going to talk about at the end when you actually want other people to be able to do this. Like, talk about what you're doing, not in a lecture way, but like, okay, I'm going to start with the trash. All right. You know, okay. No, I. I've just got to. I'm going to look and see if there's any obvious donations I can go ahead and get out without, you know, going through any decluttering questions. Yeah, I mean, like, just the verbalization of those things might be the thing that helps somebody understand, oh, there's a real strategy to what she's doing. Because here's the thing. If we' only observed the people to whom this stuff comes naturally who are able to say, just get rid of your stuff that you don't need. Okay. But if we've observed them doing it, and because it's easy for them. They don't need a step by step strategy. It can look like there's no actual strategy here. They just somehow know what should go and what should stay and then it feels like, well, I can't, I don't know what should go and what should stay and so therefore I can't do this thing. So even just knowing that there is a real step by step strategy is incredibly powerful in bringing to the point of a course. You know, bringing to a course of action, bringing to the point where you can actually start knowing what the process is. If you happen to be new here and this is your very favorite, very favorite, very first podcast that you've ever listened to from me. Just know that I have a step by step process. Okay? It's in my books. Decluttering at the Speed of life is in great detail applied to all the different things and all the mindset shifts and everything you need in that one book. But the short version, the five steps, like with pictures and stuff, isn't organizing for the rest of us. I also have videos and podcasts where I go through it, but I'm just saying there is a five step process. My five step, no mess decluttering process. If you want to get a printable of the five steps that's super cute, go to A Slob Comes Clean.com 5F I V E. You can sign up for my free newsletter and you can get a copy of that. Okay? So you can have the five steps. And that's another reason why I tell people printing it out is so valuable. Printing it out is valuable to just to remind yourself that there are steps. I do not have to make this up. As I go along. There are actual steps. And when I start to feel confused or I just am stuck and I, I can go back and look at the steps. Okay, I can either go back to step one, the trash, or I can go, where was I on the steps. All right, I'm going to do this thing. So knowing that there are steps and I don't need to make it up, that is something that convinces moves to a course of action. Okay, brings us to the point of this course of action.
- [15:01]
Unknown Author
This episode is brought to you by ecovacs, the global leader in robotic vacuum and mop innovation. Doing my daily 5 minute pickups consistently makes other housekeeping tasks so much easier. It helps me keep surfaces like my kitchen island clear so I can wipe them down and floor is clear to make tasks like vacuuming and mopping easier. This is especially important when you use one of those robot type vacuum mopping systems. Wait, a robot vacuum that can mop? Yes. The Deebot X8 Pro Omni from Ecovacs is a robotic vacuum and mop that features the OSMO Roller, an awesome mopping technology. I have hard floors throughout my entire downstairs, so I love the thought of a robot that mops those floors. The new OSMO Roller mopping technology prevents cross contamination of filth and bacteria as it continuously washes itself as it mops your floors. Finally, a mop that truly cleans, leaving your floors impeccably clean on a roll. The all new OSMO Roller Mop is now available in Deebot X8 Pro Omni. Learn more ecovaxx8.com Roller that's ecovaxx8.com roller.
- [16:15]
Capital One Bank Guy
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks Capital One Bank Guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply See CapitalOne.com Bank Capital One.
- [16:39]
Sleep Number Representative
NA Member FDIC they say opposites attract. That's why the Sleep Number Smart bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm, but they want soft Sleep Number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm. Sleep Number does that too. Why choose a Sleep Number Smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. Sleep Number Smart beds start at $999. Price is higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Exclusively at a Sleep Number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.
- [17:18]
Dani K. White
Another thing that will convince someone you to declutter. How to be convinced to declutter is minimizing the commitment of starting. That is one of those things that I have thought a lot about lately. It's just, you know, I have different things that randomly roll through my brain all the time. But one of the things I've thought about a lot lately is this. The reality of I am willing to start because it's not a huge commitment to start because starting is the hardest part. That's what we're talking about here, right? Like how do I make myself actually start understanding that it is not a commitment to tear my house apart. It is not a this is going to take me five days. This is going to take me all day. This is going to take me the entire summer, whatever. It is not that kind of a commitment to start decluttering. When I'm following the no mess decluttering process, when I'm using my five step process that guarantees progress and only progress, and never piles spread everywhere, never things sorted out. I mean, we've all seen the memes. Y'all send them to me all the time, right? Where are reels or tiktoks? I don't know, makes me sound old when I go tiktoks, right? But the, the things, you know, where it's like, oh, I got motivated to declutter and now my energy is gone and I'm regretting whatever, you know, like, and, and you see the person just like sitting there in the midst of this room that's just completely torn apart, that room being torn apart. Whether or not when you have done that before, you thought of it as a commitment that you were making, that's actually what it was. And having failed at that in the past, having regretted having done that, that was me. That's the reason I made up this process that turned into the five step no mess decluttering method. Because I was scared to start decluttering because of what had always happened in the past, which was pull everything out of the space or make all these little piles of everything sorted and life would happen, I would get distracted and then my house was in worse shape than it was before when all this stuff was shoved into a corner or a cabinet. Right. Like, so that, that reality of the commitment, it was my fear of committing to this project that was the thing that made it so hard to actually take action and do it. So minimizing that commitment of starting allows me to get started. Knowing you can quit at any time is the thing that makes it possible to get started for so many of us. Okay. Along with this idea of commitment phobia that a lot of us have, right? Is really, I was going to say commit to, but really embrace the idea of non committal experimentation. Give yourself the chance or permission, or take my permission, whatever it means to try it, like to experiment and say, does this method work or not? Because for the person, like I was talking at the beginning about those of us who we're not trying to be like bragging here, but we're like really smart, y'all. We're like, we tend to. And I'm not just saying that we tend to be very intelligent people. And sometimes that's a big part of the problem is because we're like, okay, how Is it that I, as an intelligent person, am really, really bad at this thing and cannot seem to figure it out, Right. I think it's sometimes because we're. Well, not sometimes so many times it's that we're overthinking. We are overthinking and we are trying to know what's going to happen and how it's all going to go. So instead to say, you know what, I am going to experiment, I am going to try this method or whatever you want to do, right? But I'm going to, I'm going to do this with. It's not a huge commitment because if I'm trying this method, then I'm not going to put myself in a situation where I've committed to spending the entire day working on this. Instead I, I know I'm only going to make progress, right? But even with that process, the thing to convince you may be saying and telling yourself, I'm just going to experiment. I'm just going to try this method out. I'm going to see like I. If you struggle with take it there now, which is, you know, the key to the no mess decluttering process. If you struggle with that issue and you resist it, give yourself permission to experiment and say, I am not committing. I am not. I'm not saying I believe Dana yet, okay? And, and the people who also all say it works, right? I want to be convinced that I can declutter, right? I want to be convinced to the point where I'll do the decluttering, but I just don't believe it. Okay? So say I'm gonna try it. I'm going to do this for this one small space for five minutes, right? I'm going to throw away trash. And then anything that I come across in that five minutes, I am going to go ahead and take it there now. I am not committing to always taking it there now. I am not saying that I think take it there now is correct because in my mind, logically I have worked it out that no, that couldn't possibly probably be the best way. But I am going to non committally experiment with this strategy to see you're gonna find out that I'm right. But anyway, but that's not the point because even if, even if you're just doing it to prove me wrong, even if you do prove me wrong, then at least you know you're not going to prove me wrong. But like, at least you're gonna know, right? And, and tell yourself, I'm gonna prove her wrong. Great. You Know, my goal is not to get you to do things my way. My goal is to help you be able to get to that tipping point, right? Like to get to that point where you're moved into action. So, so many times for me, I, I still say these things out loud to myself on a regular basis. Things about, you know what, I am just going to experiment. This is a non committal experimentation. I am not saying that I believe in this way. I saying, and I'm not talking about decluttering process, but with lots of things, right? Like I'm not saying I'm going to do it this way forever, but I'm going to try it this one time just to see, just to see what all the hype is about and see if, if there's any possible way. There's literally no way I can tell you that it's not going to work, but I'm going to try it anyway. That non committal experimentation gets me moving. And even on things where I find out that it wasn't the best way, which is not take it there now because take it there now is the best way. But if even on those other things that I find that out, at least I now know right where when I am don't know yet. I'm still trying to work it all out in my brain of is this way or this way or this way or this way. I'm like, you know, I'm going to try one of the ways, I'm going to pick a way, I'm going to try it, I'm gonna do that. So non committal experimentation is powerful, okay? In convincing to actually declutter, convincing to, to move into the state of action, okay? Visual progress, visual progress is so powerful, okay? That can come from the non committal experimentation. That's why I always recommend, you know, take a picture, set a timer for five minutes, follow the five step process, whatever you can do in five minutes, take another picture. That visual progress is powerful. But also this is the reason why I follow the visibility rule. I start every time I start in the most visible spaces in my home. Because by starting in the visible spaces in my home, I convince myself to keep decluttering. I mean, you know, I inspire myself to declutter more sooner because I'm like, oh my word, that looks so much better. And oh my word, I can do this thing. But also it's convincing me, it's moving me into more action when I see the impact of the thing that I have done, okay? Visual progress so powerful. Visual progress is also really, really powerful. I know I wasn't going to talk about it to the end, but in convincing other people to declutter, not in a way of like, you've got to do this thing. That's what we think of with convincing. I'm talking about how do we get somebody to that tipping point? It goes so far when they see the progress. I mean, this is my own story. This is. So many of your stories is we work on our. I worked on my own stuff and neutral stuff first. So many of you worked on your own stuff. So the other people in your house see the impact of what you're doing, okay. And they see, oh, this is making a difference. And when they see that without first seeing the super stressful what you used to do, which was pulling everything out of the space, I have come to believe that a lot of the resistance that so many of us or people face when wanting other people in their home to declutter comes from the fact that they think decluttering requires things to be bananas first. That it has to have that chaotic middle step of everything being pulled out. And so if you do a fantastic job, if you are like, I am the person who can pull everything out and finish it and, you know, it's amazing and all that, and yet the people in your house just dig their heels in when you try to get them to declutter. Maybe try the no mess method just to show the. Show them that there's a different way. Even though this method works for you, you know, if the pull everything out method works for you, maybe. I mean, I just. Having kids and having kids who are now young adults and who tell me the great things I did and the not great things that I did. The kids are so wonderfully honest anyway. But I really think that part of the digging in of the heels is related to. I don't want to go through that super stressful time because the clutter doesn't bother them as much anyway. And it's like I. Even though maybe they would like to have things different and decluttered, but they're like, well, I've seen, I've watched what it looks like to get to this point, and I'd rather not have to go through that. It would it. You know, and I think that's honestly many times what they're resisting. Not in every situation. Okay. But in a lot of situations, I think they're resisting what they think you mean when they say it's time to declutter, can we please declutter? I think that they are resisting that total chaos step. So the no mess process eliminates that total chaos step. Okay? And. And that's why it's so powerful. Okay. But doing this in a visual space so that they see the changes happening without the chaos happening, that is. Is really, really powerful. Okay. So powerful for you in convincing yourself to declutter, because that's actually the point at this time, but also, you know, for other people to see it.
- [29:50]
Capital One Bank Guy
Banking with Capital One helps you keep more money in your wallet with no fees or minimums on checking accounts and no overdraft fees. Just ask the Capital One bank guy. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. He'd also tell you that this podcast is his favorite podcast too. Ah, really? Thanks. Capital One bank guy. What's in your wallet? Term supply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC.
- [30:17]
Sleep Number Representative
They say opposites attract. That's why the Sleep Number Smart bed is the best bed for couples. You can each choose what's right for you whenever you like. You like a bed that feels firm, but they want soft. Sleep Number does that. You want to sleep cooler while they like to feel warm. Sleep Number does that too. Why choose a Sleep Number Smart bed so you can choose your ideal comfort on either side. Sleep Number Smart beds start at $999. Price is higher in Alaska and Hawaii. Exclusively at a Sleep Number store near you. See store or sleepnumber.com for details.
- [30:53]
Dani K. White
Experiencing the ease of maintaining a space when the kitchen counters are not being used for storage, filled with stuff and it becomes easier to wipe them down, becomes easier to walk through a room without tripping or bumping or having to turn sideways. Like, those are all things that I was doing without realizing I was having. You know, doing things that were harder, making it harder for myself. And when clutter is gone, then maintaining and doing the things that need to be done in that space, whether they had to do with the stuff that was there or not, is just so much easier. That is the thing that convinced me to keep decluttering. I mean, like, yes, I got rid of things, but the more it made it easier to live in my home, the more I absolutely changed how I thought about stuff. I was like, oh, easy to live in here, easy to get out what I need or keep these things. You know what? I'd much rather make it easy to live in my space. Right? Experiencing being able to find things. That's huge, y'all. That's. That's a big deal. Experiencing that which, as you work on your own stuff and neutral stuff. And then, you know, even though you may be the person who gets asked all the questions like, where's the this, where's the that? The fact that you actually know where it is and where to go get it or where to tell them to go find it, that kind of stuff is going to build that credibility and build the confidence that, okay, this is worth doing, this is actually worth doing because it's making life less stressful. I also think another big thing on being convinced to declutter is, and remember this is you. Okay? But this also bleeds out into other people. But is knowing that declutter doesn't mean getting rid of everything. You can keep anything, but you can't keep everything. I've talked about this so much, right? And I talk about the container concept and how that changed everything because I viewed the space as making the hard decisions, not me. I didn't have to assess the value of every item, but the reality was if something was important to me, of course I could keep it. I just had to give it space by getting rid of something less important. That mindset shift gave me so, so much freedom because I knew that I could declutter and it was not going to mean getting rid of everything that I loved so many times. The resistance to declutter, the reason I'm not ready to get started is I'm like, if I get started that I have to get rid of all my everything that is important to me, when that is just simply not true. And knowing that decluttering is not identifying what's the right stuff to have and the wrong stuff to have, that is not what it is. Now, when you just see a 30 second reel or a meme on the Internet or whatever, it can come across, you know, where it's saying no woman over 50 should have these three things in her closet or whatever, which those kinds of things drive me bonkers. But that implies that there are right things to have in your house and wrong things to have in your house. Well, y'all know me at all, you know, I don't like to be told what to do. So that's not helpful for me. Like, that's going to make me dig my heels in. So one of the things that moves me to that tipping point is this acknowledgment that, oh, I can keep anything I want, I can't keep everything. But if something is important to me, even if I can't explain why I can keep it as long as I make space for it, by getting rid of something else if there's not space for it. Okay, so. So that is huge in being able to move forward. Those are the main things. I know that I, I kind of was going to wait until the end to talk about how this can affect other people, but here we go. Yes. Knowing that these are the things that will convince someone to declutter. Okay. That decluttering is worth it by seeing the visual progress, experiencing how much is easier it is to live in a space with less stuff, by seeing that it's not. It does not have to be dramatic. It's not going to be this angsty thing where the whole house is torn apart, all of that. If you will follow these methods that don't have the middle chaotic step and don't have all the angst and all that, then that's what they're going to be seeing. And that is going to be their understanding of how decluttering can go. Now, it's not going to be immediate because as you're decluttering without making a bigger mess, they may not realize that you're decluttering. Right? Like, they may not realize that's what you're doing because they've equated decluttering with tearing the whole house apart. But they're, you know, they're looking at it differently. So it may take time, but do things in a visible space. Do things in a way where it does not, you know, create the chaos. And therefore you're going to. That's what they're going to be seeing. Right. Check your language on. Are you implying or saying or treating this situation like there is right stuff to have and wrong stuff to have? Because if you are even on your own things, okay, they're hearing that and they don't want you to start judging their stuff and whether it's right or wrong to have. But change the language around that. Change it to. Is there space for it? Is there space for this item versus oh, there's no reason we should have this in our home. Because that's what. That's what mamas and wives tend to say a lot is there's no reason to have. And husbands do, but there's no reason to have this thing. Right? Like, that is only going to produce an argument. That's only going to produce resistance on the part of the person who you're wishing would be convinced to declutter. Okay, That's. I think everything I have to say about that. I do want to just be clear that mindsets are helpful. Like, I talk A lot about shifting mindsets around, decluttering along with that. You know, there are a lot of people who like to know, you know, why do you have all this stuff? And maybe if I understood why this was something that I held on to and blah, blah, blah, that that would be helpful for me. If anything that's helpful for you, be great, you know. But one of the reasons I talk about mindset shifts and those being important, but mindset shifts are not the thing that convinces you to declutter or that moves you into actual action. What moves you into actual action is strategy. Those mindset shifts are going to help you as you go through the process. Like as you're. If you have the mindset shift that, you know what, I'm gonna let stuff flow through my house and acknowledge that if this is a really cool container for coffee, but we buy one of those every month, then it's a mindset shift for me to go, you know what, there's going to be another one coming in. I don't have to keep every single one just because it's a cool, you know, like, that's a good mindset shift. But then the, the actual strategy is I'm going to look for trash because I've had that mindset shift. I now see these coffee containers as trash where maybe before I saw them as treasure. Right? So, but having this strategy of I'm going to start with trash and get those out. Now that I've had that mindset shift, it's so much easier. So, so like the strategy is everything. Like, it's very, very powerful and important to have the step by step strategy. Okay. All right. Well, this has been fun. I do want to remind you that my new book is out and if you have read it, I would so greatly appreciate it if you would leave a review wherever you read it. If you haven't read it yet, go grab it or see if your library has it or ask them to order it. You can go to a slobcamsclean.com jesus to find out more about it. It is a spiritually focused book. My first three books do not have any spiritual content because they are just the strategies and the mindset changes and all that. But I wanted to address the spiritual side of things. And so this book is Jesus doesn't care about your messy house and it's my heart in a book. So I would love for you to read it and I would love for you to leave a review. Okay. All right. This has been fun and I will talk to y'all later. Bye.