475: Container Concept and Creativity

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

A Slob Comes Clean with Dana K. White
Episode 475: Container Concept and Creativity
Release Date: September 11, 2025

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Overview

This episode dives deep into Dana K. White’s core organizing concept—the Container Concept—strategies for decluttering specific spaces, and overcoming psychological and practical barriers that make tidying up challenging. Answering listener questions submitted to her site, Dana addresses everything from cable storage and kids’ bedrooms to the realities of decluttering in limited spaces and dealing with resistant family members. From practical advice to her signature encouragement, Dana keeps the focus on real-life solutions for real people.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Container Concept vs. Clutter Threshold

• Dana clarifies the difference between the Container Concept (the physical space available for an item) and the clutter threshold (your personal ability to keep an area under control based on how items are stored).
• Folding or wrapping items (like cables or linens) helps with clutter threshold, but the physical boundary—the container—is what ultimately determines how much you can keep.
• Notable Quote:

  "The Container Concept is where we declutter the excess that doesn't fit in the space. But the clutter threshold also matters." —Dana [03:26]

• Advice:
  • Designate bins or containers for tricky items (e.g., cords). When the container is full, remove duplicates or items you know you don't use.
  • Whether you consistently wrap/tie up cables is secondary—what matters is keeping only what fits and what you can realistically maintain.

Important Segment:

[04:22] – Explanation and practical application of the container concept for cords, linens, and other “sticky” items.

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2. Overcoming Decluttering Paralysis

• Listener asks about feeling frozen at the 'last bits' of decluttering, especially when about to convert a playroom into an office.
• Dana encourages using her No Mess Decluttering Process:
  • Step 1: Trash—Start by finding and removing trash.
  • Step 2: Easy Stuff—Anything you already know where it goes.
  • Step 3: Obvious Donations—Items easy to donate without agonizing.
  • Step 4: One-at-a-time Decision—Ask, "If I needed this, where would I look for it first?"
• Redefining the identity of a room (e.g., “This is no longer a playroom, it’s an office”) makes decluttering decisions easier and less emotional.
• Notable Quote:

  "The vast majority of the things in this space are going to be trash or obvious donations. Almost everything." —Dana [13:46]

• Advice:
  • Don’t pull everything out at once. Work item by item to avoid overwhelm and chaos.
  • Celebrate your progress so far!
  • Only tackle one big project at a time.

Important Segment:

[08:00–17:50] – Step-by-step walkthrough for specific decluttering projects and how to emotionally navigate major room reassignments.

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3. Helping Kids with Clutter

• Listener story: 11-year-old daughter wanted to “pull everything onto the bed” to clean.
• Dana warns that this strategy usually makes a bigger mess and leaves no place to sleep; instead, start with visible trash and deal with one item at a time.
• For under-the-bed clutter:
  • Begin with the trash you can reach without unloading everything.
  • Gradually pull out accessible items and deal with each, asking, "Where would I look for this first?"
• Parenting Insight:

  "Somehow, there’s always trash under the bed, right?" —Dana [24:57]

Important Segment:

[23:24–27:05] – Coaching children through the decluttering process step by step.

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4. The “Where Would You Look First?” Question & Resistant Family Members

• Some partners or kids get frustrated with being asked “Where would you look for this first?”
• Tips for Reducing Conflict:
  • Begin by decluttering your own items.
  • Use the non-confrontational steps first: trash, easy stuff, obvious donations.
  • Make it clear there’s no “wrong” answer to, “Where would you look for it first?”
  • With kids, accept their answers—even if you disagree—to keep trust and reduce tension.
• Notable Quote:

  "You're not quizzing them on where things go. If you already know, just say, 'Take this there.' But, if not, it's okay to ask them." —Dana [30:19]

Important Segment:

[27:05–32:17] – Navigating resistance and making collaborative decisions with family.

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5. Decluttering in Tiny Spaces & After Major Life Changes

• Listener: Single mom, formerly homeless, now overwhelmed with stuff in a small apartment.
• Dana emphasizes the importance of embracing physical limitations, not abstract “usefulness.”
• Advice:
  • Don’t try to decide if an item is “good” or “useful.” Instead, let the space available (your container) make the hard decisions.
  • Keep the best of the duplicates or similar items; let go of the least necessary until everything fits in your real, functional space.
• Notable Quote:

  "Out of all these good and useful things, I need to get rid of the least good and useful." —Dana [40:14]

Important Segment:

[33:24–41:22] – How the container concept helps clarify what to keep and what to release, especially for those with new starts or small homes.

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6. Practical Barrier: Getting Stuff Out Without a Car or With Limited Trash

• Listener faces limits on trash (30 liters/week for a family of six) and no car for donations.
• Advice:
  • Ask neighbors how they manage extra waste—others may have helpful hacks or know of local services.
  • If allowed, save up “tip” money to hire a pickup or similar service.
  • Compress trash and fill every available inch to maximize weekly disposal.
  • Don’t be embarrassed—people with tidy homes have learned local workarounds and are often willing to share advice.
• Notable Quote:

  "People whose homes are under control consistently know how to get rid of stuff. They just do." —Dana [41:10]

Important Segment:

[41:22–end] – Creative problem-solving for decluttering logistical hurdles.

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Notable Quotes

| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|---------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:26 | Dana | “The Container Concept is where we declutter the excess that doesn't fit in the space. But the clutter threshold also matters.” | | 07:04 | Dana | “If you find over time that even though you did that [wrapped cables] now you are throwing items in there at random times ... then you need to get rid of some to make it work for your actual life. And that's your clutter threshold.” | | 13:46 | Dana | "The vast majority of the things in this space are going to be trash or obvious donations. Almost everything." | | 24:57 | Dana | “Somehow, there’s always trash under the bed, right?” | | 30:19 | Dana | "You're not quizzing them on where things go... If you already know, just say, 'Take this there.' But if not, it's okay to ask them." | | 40:14 | Dana | "Out of all these good and useful things, I need to get rid of the least good and useful." | | 41:10 | Dana | "People whose homes are under control consistently know how to get rid of stuff. They just do." |

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Episode Flow & Timestamps

• [00:00] – Introduction, episode framing, listener questions
• [04:08–07:38] – Applying container concept to tricky items
• [08:00–17:50] – Overcoming decluttering paralysis, changing a room’s function
• [23:24–27:05] – Coaching kids through decluttering, special advice for under-bed clutter
• [27:05–32:17] – Handling resistance from family members
• [33:24–41:22] – Decluttering after trauma or in small spaces
• [41:22–end] – Creative solutions for getting rid of stuff when logistics are hard

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Tone & Style

Dana’s advice remains warm, practical, and infused with real-life honesty. She acknowledges emotions and resistance, provides reassurance, and emphasizes actionable, step-by-step strategies throughout.

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Summary Takeaways

• Use the Container Concept as a reality-based decision tool—your space is the limit, not your desire or the theoretical usefulness of an item.
• When stuck, follow Dana’s No Mess Decluttering Process: trash, easy stuff, obvious donations, one-item-at-a-time logic.
• Involve family by focusing first on your own stuff and making decluttering a collaborative, non-judgmental process.
• For special situations (kids’ rooms, small homes, lack of transport), adapt the process but don’t skip the basics: start easy, embrace physical limits, and ask for help when stuck.

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Transcript

[A]

Hey y'. All, if you are in the Dallas area, I'll be in Waxahachie, Texas on September 20th teaching an in person decluttering workshop hosted by Ellis County Realtor Jane Askew. Jane is bringing me into her community for this live event because we all know decluttering goes right along with moving or even being able to think about moving. Tickets are not expensive and they cover the cost of your lunch. Find out more and grab a ticket at a slob comes clean.com jane that's aslobcomesclean.com jane welcome to a Slob Comes Clean, the Podcast. I am Dana K. White. I share my personal deslobification process as I figure out ways to keep my own home under control. I share the truth about cleaning and organizing strategies that actually work in real life for real people. People who love. Wait, did I just say that? People who don't love cleaning and organizing. And for people who love it too. You are all welcome here. I am always amazed when I hear from people who are like, I love cleaning and organizing and I listen to your podcast. But anyway, that's just one of those reminders that I do not use a pre recorded version of that. It is really me saying it every time. So this is podcast number 475 I think, and I am going to be answering some questions that were asked over@askdanyk white.com and this is not, you know, over the summer I did replays of just the audio of Q&As from YouTube videos. That's not what this is. This is me just answering it for the podcast. And so this is podcast energy that we're getting this time, right? All right. I don't know what I'm going to call it. I know I usually say, and I think I'm going to call it, I think I'm going to call it container concept and creativity. Yeah, we'll see. All right, first question. How do you apply the container concept for certain items that some people would tie, slash fold and others would let loose, such as cables and linens, towels, cloths, clothing, bedding? I'd answer, where would I look first for my charging cables, But I'm not sure if I need to factor in the container concept before, before I tie fold the item or after. I know for some of those items I'm willing to store and leave it loose like a few specific cables, but for others, like my clothes, I need to fold it to keep it under control in my storage system. Thank you for your insight as always. I am very serious about adding healthy habits like eating my greens into my daily routine. Live It Up Super Greens has been helping me so much. Live It Up Super Super Greens is an all natural blend of over 20 superfoods formulated with organic vegetables, probiotics, digestive enzymes and naturally derived ingredient. Just mix one scoop into water, milk or a smoothie. I added it to my smoothie this morning, but the wild berry flavor also makes it easy to just mix it into water. There's nothing faster or easier than that. One small habit can have a ripple effect. 96% of people who take Super Greens daily say it helps increase their daily intake of vegetables and helps them them feel healthier. And because it's free from sugar, dairy, gluten and anything artificial, you can feel good about taking it every day. Live it up is offering you 15 off your first order, including subscriptions with code SLOB. Plus shipping's always free. Head to letsliveitup.com slob and use code SLOB for 15 off your first Super Greens order. These statements have not been evaluated by the fda. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease. Okay, this is a great question. And this is one of those questions that demonstrates how, yes, clutter threshold is the way that we declutter down to what fits physically in the space. Did I say clutter threshold? No, container concept. See, I just gave it away, right? Container concept is where we declutter the excess that doesn't fit in the space. But clutter threshold also matters.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

How you fold your clothes has to do with clutter threshold. Whether or not you roll up and tie each of your cables has to do with clutter threshold.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

The container concept is key because however you do it, the space that you have is the space that you have. Okay, so I have a bin for all of my cords and electronic little pieces and doodads, right? I have a bin for that that we know anytime we run across a cord, we know that it goes into that bin. Why? Because we've asked where we would look for it first. We know we don't have to ask that anymore because now it's in easy. We have made that established decision according to where we would look for it first. That is where these things live. They live in this bin. So anytime I run across one, I don't have to think about it. I don't have to analyze it. I take it to that bin. Okay? That bin, however, is a container. And so when that ben ben bin starts to get full, then I have to Remove either the least favorites or the duplicates or whatever I can remove until I only have what will fit functionally in that space.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I can't keep as many cords because I can't keep them. I'm just not always going to, you know, roll them up and tie them. I don't feel like roll them up is the right way. How did she say it? Tie, fold, whatever. But I'm not going to do that. Not because I don't want to do that. Not because I don't think that it's much more helpful to do that. Not that I don't wish I would have done that when I go in and I find that some of the cords have gotten tangled, but just because in reality, I can't do that. Now, here's the thing. If you are working on this bin and you want to fold them up, great, do it. Even if you're not somebody who is always going to fold them up. If, if that is helpful for you to. What is it? Is it round them or fold? You know what I mean? Wrap them. Wrap them. That's right. Wrap them and tie them. If you do that, that's great. And you're going to be so grateful for that and you're going to be so thankful for the work that you did. It's going to be a worthwhile, focused, decluttering project on in this space.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

However, if you find over time that even though you did that now you are throwing items in there at random times. And because it is so full of even the wrapped and tied ones, that now that you throw in the non wrapped and tied ones, now that you throw those in, then it's outside the boundaries of the container, then you need to get rid of some to make it work for your actual life. And that's your clutter threshold.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

So it's not a matter of saying, oh, I'm never going to keep it wrapped and tied. I'm never going to keep every last thing wrapped and tied. And so there's no point in me wrapping and tying and that, you know, creating more space. But it's that balance between, like, yes, I have to get rid of what doesn't fit. If wrapping and tying it makes it fit better. And I want to take this focus time to do that, great. It's going to really benefit me in the future. But also, as I continue to live in this space, if I find that I'm throwing things in there without wrapping and tying them, it's not a matter of I'm going to Throw it in there. And then, oh, one of these days I need to get in there and rewrap and retie. Oh, my goodness. I need to do instead. It's a. You know what? Hey, this has to have enough space in it to function the way that we actually live. Which means, honestly, I. I can get rid of things again. Duplicates things that I'm like, you know what? Actually, this is for a. This has a brand name on the plug part that I know. We haven't had anything with that brand name in 20 years. You know, like, that will reveal itself. The things that can go to make it actually function for how you actually function in your real life. Right. Because function is what matters. Next question. I feel frozen and don't know where to start. I have been working in layers over the past two to three years and have done a significant amount of decluttering. This is me stopping and saying, congratulations. That's amazing. I'm excited for you. Okay, so celebrate what you've done. I'm at the point where I need to finish decluttering so I can move forward with other projects, such as changing my girl's old playroom into an office for myself and redoing our bathrooms. I just feel frozen and I don't know how to decide what to tackle first. The thought of making more of a mess to get to where I want to go as where, as well as making decisions about the final bits of clutter stuff, is overwhelming to me. Any suggestions to help me move my mind forward and make a decision are welcome. Yes. First of all, like I said, you have done a significant amount of decluttering. Amazing, right? Like, celebrate that you have done that. Now take what you have learned using the no mess decluttering process. Now, I don't actually know because sometimes people leave a question the first time they've ever heard of me. Right. And so you may have done a significant amount of decluttering over the years. Not using my method. Right. Or if you have really zero in on following the no mess process and go into, like, your girl's old playroom that you want to turn into an office. So go into this space using the tools of the no mess process, whether you have used them in the past. And so now it's, here's the problem. It feels whether you've used them in the past or whether you're, you know, using them for the first time. But it feels often like, okay, I've been decluttering and decluttering and decluttering, and yet this is a Different project. I am going to be changing my girl's old playroom into an office. So, well, this is different. So even though, yes, the no mess decluttering process has worked for me in the other ways, this one's different. This isn't. This isn't the same thing, right? Like, this is completely redoing this room. It's actually more important for you to go hard on the process in this situation of changing your girl's old playroom into an office. So you go into the space and it is an, an old playroom. So it has, you know, perhaps some toys still or it's set up in a way that, you know, whatever, go in there and identify this room for what it is going to be. It's going to be an office that is going to be its primary identity is. It's. It's going to be an office for me. And now I am going to declutter this room with that understanding that I am not just having less toys, I'm actually eliminating the girl's old playroom from the house. There is no longer going to be a playroom in my house. This room is going to completely change identity. So as you go into this room now, everything looks different. Every single item that is for a girl's playroom. It can no longer live in this space because this space has a new identity. Yes, I have to clean out the room to get to that identity. But I'm not going to clean out that room by pulling everything out and put it in the hallway and then making it an office and then deciding instead. Because you said, like, it stresses me out. I feel frozen because I think, oh no, it's going to cause so much chaos. Use the no mess process and it won't cause the chaos. So you go into the girls room, girls playroom, knowing it is no longer going to be that. It's going to be an office. And you look for trash and things that if you were just decluttering a playroom, those things wouldn't be trash. But when you are completely eliminating the playroom, things might be trash that weren't trash before. Right? Like, oh, the girls, you know, used to play with these broken dishes. But now that it's, it's not going to be a playroom anymore, those things don't get to exist in my house. So now they're trash. And then you go with, is there anything that's drifted in here that actually does have a home somewhere else? Those are easy stuff. And you take that out. Then you go with the Duh donation. Somebody on YouTube was like, why did you say duh donations anymore? And I'm like, well, it's because people are always like, did you, what did you say? I'm like, duh, you know, duh. Where I feel like the word obvious. I've started saying obvious donations. It's more like, I don't have to explain myself, but duh, obvious donations, get those out. The vast majority of the things in this space are going to be trash or obvious donations. Almost everything. So you go into it knowing, I am emptying this room if we don't have a need for a playroom anymore. And I don't know if your girls, I don't know where, where they are in age, right? Because I only have this one question in front of me. But this room is not going to exist. So the vast majority of stuff needs to go to trash or donations. And when you get to things that are not obvious donations and are not obvious trash and are not easy, you already knew where to put them. Then you pick things up one item at a time, the same way you would in a decluttering project. And you ask yourself, if I needed this item, where would I look for it? First, taking this room out of the equation because this room, as it is, as a girls playroom, no longer exists. Still making me very sad to talk about. But so, so there's going to be emotions, right, that you experience in there. But it remember, these are only the things that you don't know where they go and they don't go to in this room anymore. And so then you ask yourself, if I needed this item, where would I look for it? First? A lot of things are going to reveal themselves through asking that question. They're going to reveal themselves as trash or donations because you're going to have that realization. It's going to get easier and easier the more things that you go through and ask yourself that question. It is going to be obvious and easy after you ask that question because you'll realize, oh, oh, that's right, there's, you know, what if this room doesn't exist, this thing doesn't get to live in my house. But there will be things that you're like, no, this was a sentimental item, or this is an item that my girls still do actually play with and all that. And so you ask yourself, where would I look for this? First? It can't. The answer can't be in this room. So if your answer is in this room, then you say, okay, well, with this room not being A playroom anymore, then where would I look for it first?

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then you go to that space and it. The take it there now is so important because it makes you face reality. Yes. You take it there now so that whenever you get distracted, you've only made progress, but it's also to face reality. And that's especially key in this situation because this space where this item used to be is completely going away. You take it to that place where you would look for it, you know, which might be top of the girl's closet in your guest room if the girls have moved out and grown up. Or if, you know, maybe it's the top of your closet, if it's something sentimental to you and not show to them, but you take it to there, to that space and you see, is there something, Is there room for it? And if there's not room for it, what am I willing to get rid of in order to make the room for it? That's how you move your whole house forward without making a bigger mess. Is something is going to be trash or donation that will leave the house completely in order to make this. Give a real home to this item that's not in the old playroom.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But also going there, facing the reality of that space also helps you see, oh, there's no room for this item. I really love it. It's going to hurt to let it go. I'm not going to enjoy it. I might cry a little bit. But the truth is it doesn't deserve space in my house over these other things that actually, you know, fit with our current life. Right. That's how, like, use the process, but use the process in the course of what it is that you're doing.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And then you get into, okay, the furniture that's in this room, the furniture, does it fit in the identity of this room being an office or not? Okay, well, then this furniture may need to go. Getting rid of furniture can be a huge hassle, but it's going to be worth it, right? The other thing you said, redoing the bathroom. Here's the thing too, is like, oh, there's so many things I want to do and I want to change this into my office and I want to redo the bathrooms. You can only do one thing at a time, so use the no mess method. Go with the most important thing first. I would say changing. If it was just me and you cared about my opinion, I would say the changing the. The playroom into an office is something that can be done without construction, potentially and probably involves a lot of decluttering and getting things out of the house. So that's what I would focus on. As you do the bathrooms. Let's say you're going to redo your bathrooms, declutter hard in those bathrooms. Because any kind of remodeling, even if it's just paint and tile, it just sends your world completely upside down, right? So really zero in on that, on decluttering those spaces down to the absolute most basics. So that when it's time to do the actual remodeling and you have to pack things into boxes to take into your other bathroom, if you have another bathroom or live out of those boxes, and then you're just using this, whatever, you know what I mean? You're only taking the absolute essentials and not anything else because you've already decluttered that. So I hope that was helpful. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Who's your go to person for advice and support? Your best friend, Your hairdresser? Even a random stranger in line at the grocery store might offer great life advice. But not everyone is a therapist. When you're looking for help about relationships, anxiety or depression, they may not have all the right answers. Instead, get guidance from a licensed therapist online with better help. So I love talking to my friends and my husband, but honestly, this is one of my favorite parts of working with a therapist. Our time together is specifically purposefully designed around finding solutions and strategies. For me, it's more than just a venting session or a conversation. It's purposeful. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, serving over 5 million people globally for over 10 years. They have an average rating of 4.9 out of 5 for a live session based on over 1.7 million client reviews. And it's convenient. I've done sessions with my therapist from my car while I was between errands. As the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with Better Help our listeners get 10% off their first month at betterhelp.com clean that's better h lp.com clean Weeknights can feel like a blur of takeout menus and last minute grocery runs. But Prep Dish can fix that. Their weekly meal planning service sends me seasonal menus every week with a full grocery list and instructions so I can prep everything ahead of time. And now they've teamed up with Instacart, the grocery list becomes an online cart already filled for you. Just click adjust anything you need and check out. Groceries can be ordered in under three minutes like magic. I love this new feature so much. If you don't like scallions, just remove the scallions. Perfect. I love Prep Dish because I get to make everything from scratch in the midst of a busy time. The instructions for what to do during prep time and then how to cook the meal fresh on the day we eat it and take the thinking out of it. But let me do what I love doing and the meals really are so good. 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I Was so thankful to have your tips to remind her that her strategy will only make a bigger mess and leave her with a bed she can't sleep on when bedtime comes and encouraged her instead to start with looking for trash etc or touch one thing and deal with it immediately. This was a light bulb moment for her, so thank you. Now, how do we deal with decluttering under the bed where you can't as easily see what is there? I know the steps will work, but appreciate any thoughts on tackling this storage clutter. Thank you for reshaping the way I think about storage and organization, which now includes decluttering before anything else. Yeah, it's hard because no, you can't see everything under the bed. It's also kind of bleh to get under the bed and get things right. And yet it's the same process. So this would be a great time for you to help her. Right. Is to hold the trash bag for her so that she can get down there and just say, let's do the same thing. Let's start with the trash somehow. There's always trash under the bed, right? So let's start with the trash. Is there anything that you can see without pulling everything out? So there's going to be trash. Like let's say the bed is up against the wall and so things have kind of just drifted and been shoved under the bed. Then as you work on this space, okay, just get out the trash that you can see and access without pulling things out.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like what trash can you get to without having to pull something out in order to be able to get to it? Get that trash out and then look for easy stuff. Is there anything that you can see that you can grab that you already know where that item goes? That's easy for you and you do that. Okay. Is there anything you can see under the bed and get to without pulling everything out? That would be a obvious donation. A donation, Right. Get those out. All right. And then as she's gotten everything that she can see and access out of there, that, that was easy. Trash or an obvious donation. Then you pull out something and you know, pull it out from under the bed and ask yourself, if I needed this item, where would I look for it first? And you go through that and. And then you get all those things. As you do that, you're going to be like, oh, there was a piece of trash behind that and I'm gonna put that in the trash bag. Oh, there was an something easy. Actually that was next to this item that I Didn't see before. And now that I've gotten this item out, I see it and I'm gonna do that. So you're gonna be doing that, but you're doing it by creeping through the storage space. Okay, next question. How I love slash don't love at all this one. But anyway, how do you work with family members who get mad when you ask where they'd look for something first? My husband and both kids, 9 and 6, hate this question, okay? So that's all I know, right? And I'm a mom and a wife and I occasionally get on my family's nerves and like, it's just part of living with people, right? Like it's part of the people that you live with. There is. There are layers and experiences and history behind every last word or look that you put out there into the world, right? And so what I would say is, you know, and it can be very different, like, you know, your spouse versus your kids. Those are two different situations. With the kids, you're the mom and so, you know, you have a little more like you have authority there, right? Where with the spouse, your partners, and you're working together and they may not want to be told what to do by you and blah, blah, blah. And they also know your own stuff. So the first thing I'm going to say is just like any answer that I ever give to any question about family members and all that, you have to start with your own stuff, okay? And the re. And. And I get that you're. Maybe you have done all of your own stuff, but a lot of times the reaction to anything about decluttering that family members have is based on feeling. A lot of times it has to do with the fact that they're like, okay, why are you asking me this question when there's all this other stuff here that's not even mine, right? Like, or there's all this other stuff that's yours. So focus on your own stuff first. But this is a great question to ask people, but acknowledge there might be some history or frustration or the way you used to declutter. And they can tell you asking the question is you gearing up to declutter. And they're basing their reaction on the way it used to be where things people got frustrated and all this. So with the kids, what I would say is find an opportunity to work through their space. Starting with the very first step of the process with trash, then doing the easy stuff, then doing the. The obvious donations, right? Getting those out, because that's going to help them. Those are all decision free things that they don't have to answer any questions about. It's simply just, do you see any trash? And remember, you have to trust, not trust, but go with their answer. Instead of being like, hello, how do you not think that this is trash? We're not going to have those conversations. It's just, okay, is there, do you see any obvious trash? And you're thinking, I cannot believe you don't see that. That is trash. Okay, is this trash? No. Okay. And then you move to the next thing. Do you see anything here that you already know what to do with it? Okay, we go through that and then you work your way up. The trust that you build in those in taking their answer on those first three decision free steps is going to take you far as you get to this question. But it also comes down to like letting them know that there's not a wrong answer. Because most likely their reaction to this is that they are hearing it the way a lot of times some of y' all hear it. That I have to clarify again and again, right? Like I am not asking you where would this be? But so many people will say, oh, you know, your first question of where would this be? And I'm like, no, no, that's not the question. In fact, that's completely not at all the question. The question is where would you look for it first? And I am acknowledging and accepting and not shaming you for the fact that you have no idea. I'm asking this. And it's perfectly fine to have no idea where this item would be. But like if you didn't know where it was, where would you look first? Even if you were sure it wasn't going to be there, where would you look first? You know, and so it's like really giving them permission and, and teaching them through both your reaction and your clarification that there is not a wrong answer here. Okay, but, but it's, you know, I mean, as a mom, I get it. You know, like I always talk about with the five minute pickup, your kids are going to pretend that they have no idea where anything goes in the house. And that can be maddening. As a mother, it really truly is. But you're not quizzing them on where things go because if, if you already know where something goes, then it is easy and you can just say, hey, you know, take this to the, that, you know, that cup next to the. I was going to say phone, but do we have phones anymore? You know, or the phone charging station. How about that that kept next to the phone charging station. That's where these go. So go take it there. Right? That is not a quiz, because that was easy. But if they think that they're being quizzed and they don't know the answer, that's where that frustration can come in. So make sure that it's clear that this is how we're going to establish and identify the place. Say, you know, we're going to put this in the place that you would look for it first, you know, so I don't know where it would go. I want this to be for you. And then you ask them that, but it's probably because they think they're being quizzed.

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[A]

Okay, now this is one where I just want to start from the beginning and say, take my answer for what it is, which is an answer from someone who is not a mental health professional. Okay, so coaching, which is more what I do for y' all here and what my decluttering coaches are trained by me to do, you know, leading people through my method. Coaching deals with the present and the future. So I'm going to answer this question as best I can for ideas for you to take or leave, you know, what will work for you for the present and the future. But going into the past is where you need to work with a mental health professional. And so if my answers are answers that you're like, oh, yeah, okay, that will help me then go ahead. If you find that, that you're like, oh, I don't Know, I think it's because it could very well be related into some things, you know, from your past. That's where you would need to work with a mental health professional. Okay. All right. Here's the question. Short blurb about my background and where I'm coming from. I've been clean and sober a little after 10 years of drug abuse and homelessness. First of all, congratulations. That's awesome. That's amazing. I am a single mom of a two year old. Here's the question part. When I first got sober, all I had was one duffel bag of stuff to my name. I live in a pretty small one bedroom apartment with my daughter and there's just so much stuff that I'm drowning in it. I know your two questions and I have used them quite a bit, but how do I figure out how to get things out that are A, still good, B, useful in this current season and. And see, not necessarily something I have too much of. People who know me tell me that I am a hoarder, but I am able to let most things go as they are no longer needed or useful. Okay. Great question. Other thing I want to say here is people who know you telling you're a hoarder. I mean, I feel like a lot of people throw that word around that have no idea what they're talking about. So I wouldn't worry about what they're saying. Again, it would probably be something to talk with a mental health professional about, you know, if. If that is an issue and if the things that I say make you go, I can't, you know, then take it or leave it. It's great. But you might need to work with someone else. Okay. Really zero in on the container that is your space.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I found in my own process that asking myself questions like, is this item good? Is this item useful? Is this. I. Do I have too much of this item or whatever? Those, those questions didn't help me. I can I think of everything as useful.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And I don't think that's your issue. But the reason that I came up with this specific strategy is that I couldn't decide that something was bad when I actually felt like it was good.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And you said you feel like you're drowning in your space and that. And it's completely too much stuff. So really embracing the reality of your space. And you said you started out with a duffel bag full of stuff. I know. Like I. When we moved not to this house, but to the house that we lived in before that, I remember it was probably 400 square feet bigger than the house that we'd had before. We looked at some really big houses. I remember thinking, I'm going to have to get so much stuff because I'm going to have so much space. And so most likely the thought when you compare the duffel bag to the one bedroom apartment, most likely that's why all this stuff came in, because it felt like this is so much space. Well, now you're in a situation where you're drowning in the clutter, right? Because there's so much. So the first thing to do is really zero in on the process.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Don't worry about the things that are hard for you yet. Start with the trash. And I know that it's always feels like there's no trash. There's always trash. The other thing too is looking for trash. Even if there wasn't any, which there always is, but even if there wasn't any trash. Looking for trash is going to help you start looking at individual items instead of the overall mass of stuff that you need to get done. So you look at look for trash and throw away trash. Look for anything that is easy, that you do know where it goes and take it to that space. If you get to that space and that space space is a mess and there's no room for it there, if you know that this item goes there, then remove something that is either trash or an obvious duh, easy for you to get rid of donation in order to make room for this item that you already know goes there. Because that's what happens when we just keep bringing stuff in without a realization and acknowledgement of the limits of the space space. Then the space itself gets so full that even when I do want to put things away, there's no room to put it there.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

And so getting rid of any trash or obvious donations first and getting those things actually out of your house, that's going to help so much. But as you find something that you do know where it goes and you get there, you have to make the space, space for this item by get rid, getting rid of something. If you realize I can't get rid of anything to make the space for it, then this item is not actually as important as I thought it was to me.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

But you go through all of that and then you ask yourself the question, if I needed this item, where would I look for it first? Those are my two decluttering questions. You take it to that home, you again, if there's no room in that home, I have to get Rid of something to make the space for it. I'm not going to completely work on this decluttering project because I still want to work in the space where I was originally working. But I am going to get rid of something that creates the space that I need for this item so I don't leave this space where I would look for it any worse than it was. And then you really embrace the realities of your space.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Identifying this is the bedroom. That means it has to serve the purpose of being where we are going to sleep. It's potential. It's possible that that's also where your daughter's toys are stored.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But we have to have sleeping be the number one thing. We need to be able to sleep. We need to be able to get up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night without tripping. We need to embrace the realities of this space. And so everything in here feels good and useful to me. And yet there's more stuff than will fit in this space and us be able to do and function and do the things that we need to do. So instead of thinking of it as is this thing good or useful? Say, out of all these good and useful things, I need to get rid of the least good and useful. They're still good and useful, but the least good and useful. Until I only have what will fit in this space and we have the open space around us to be able to function. My daughter has the room on the floor to play. We have the room for our beds, around our beds to be able to get to where we need to get to. Okay, so really zero in on the container concept and let that make those hard decisions. Because we can keep anything, but we can't keep any everything.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So everything that does stay in your home is taking up space that means something else can't stay in the home. Okay, let's see. And then the last one. Any tips when the holdup is actually getting things out of the house? I live in Europe without a car and am limited to 30 liters of trash per week for my family of six. Feeling stuck? Yeah, it's tough. I mean, I don't live in Europe. Right. And so I would love to hear in the comments over on the site, a slob comes. Then you go to podcasts and then go to this specific one. I would love to hear what you do. Right. I don't know if you have the ability to hire a. I know some people in some places call it a tip. We would call it a dumpster. Dumpster. Is actually a proper noun. Did you know that? All of my editors are always like, remember, this is a proper noun. So it's a brand name, but a dumpster, a tip. Something can be really hard and really frustrating. But if that's a possibility, that would be one way to get a lot of stuff out of there. As far as, you know, if donations are the issue, then, you know, maybe getting creative on, you know, posting on social media or asking friends or, you know, asking around to see, are there any donation places around here that will come and pick things up, since you don't have a car. But the other thing, too, and I know this is not what you want to hear, but I know for us, we. When we start to go, oh, my goodness, we've got some things building up, or whatever, trash, I'm like, let's make sure we use every last inch of every bit of space in our trash as we possibly can. And so we really zero in on that for a while until we get all of that out of there. It might mean, um, I'm not sure if it's 30 liters would be space, not weight. Right. But it might be really, really smashing down every thing that you have to be able to fit as much into that space as possible. But I think my real answer is to, first of all, ask people around you, how are you getting rid of extra trash when you need to? I know for me, when my house was a total disaster, I was embarrassed to ask questions like that because I felt like it was letting people know this thing I was hiding about myself, right. That I struggled so much in my home. But the truth is, people whose homes are under control know how to get rid of more stuff. They have figured out the ways. They have found the hacks. They have found the local places that will come pick things up. They know what to do to be able to get rid of some extra trash and, you know, whatever, and they won't think it's weird. Now, sometimes if it's people who actually know you in your real life and they know that this is your struggle, that can be extra hard. But asking around on how, you know, how can I get rid of more? Because people whose homes are under control consistently know how to get rid of stuff. They just do. So. All right, I hope this was helpful, and it's fun to be back on the podcast, and I will talk to you all later. Bye. Hey, y'. All. If you are in the Dallas area, I'll be in Waxahachie, Texas, on September 20th teaching an in person decluttering workshop hosted by Ellis County Realtor Jane Askew. Jane is bringing me into her community for this live event because we all know decluttering goes right along with moving or even being able to think about moving. Tickets are not expensive and they cover the cost of your lunch. Find out more and grab a ticket. And at ASLOB comes clean.com jane that's aslobcomesclean.com jane.