483: Permission to Learn

Summary

Podcast Summary

Podcast: A Slob Comes Clean
Host: Dana K. White
Episode: #483 – Permission to Learn
Date: November 6, 2025
Theme: Reality-Based Cleaning, Organizing, and Decluttering

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Episode Overview

In this episode, "Permission to Learn," Dana K. White explores the necessity—and liberating power—of granting yourself permission to learn through experience, especially regarding cleaning, organizing, and decluttering. Rather than expecting mastery or waiting until you feel fully prepared, Dana encourages listeners to start with what they know, embrace the uncertainty, and treat every step as a valuable learning process. Using personal anecdotes, analogies, and practical advice, she highlights how real progress comes from action and hands-on engagement, not just theory.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Value of Repetition in Learning

• Dana acknowledges and reassures listeners who hear similar themes in her episodes, emphasizing that reviewing concepts from multiple angles helps keep decluttering top-of-mind and can lead to new insights over time.
  • Quote: “I hear from so many of you who assure me that it is helpful to you to hear the same concepts talked about over and over from different angles and different situations.” (01:00)

2. The Power of Doing vs. Knowing

• Dana relates how understanding often comes not from studying or hearing about something but by physically engaging with it.
  • Story: She describes a situation with her property’s cow gate, where she had to improvise with a “cow panel” she didn’t know how to use until she just tried it.
  • Lesson: Learning comes when you “give yourself permission to say, I am going to go into this and say, I don’t know yet what I don’t know. And that is okay, because nobody knows everything.” (07:22)

3. Application to Decluttering

• Many listeners become stuck in “study” mode, consuming podcast after podcast without taking tangible steps.
  • Advice: “Take the thing that you have studied, which you have studied...and do it by giving yourself permission to learn through doing. Okay, pick up the cow panel. The decluttering equivalent would be grab a trash bag and start throwing away trash.” (13:58)
  • Process Note: Dana’s no-mess decluttering process always starts with trash—an emotion-free and quickly rewarding step.

4. Giving Yourself Permission to Fail

• Dana reframes failure as part of the learning process: “If my goal is to learn and I fail, I learned what didn’t work. So I actually succeeded...at my goal of learning.” (15:45)

5. Hands-on Learning & Confidence

• Direct, hands-on attempts reveal new information and build confidence in a way that theoretical preparation cannot.
  • Quote: “The best way to get yourself to do that is to say, I am doing this for the purpose of learning.” (15:00)
  • She relates this principle to learning how to lift heavier weights, describing gradual progress and unexpected capability: “I deadlifted £185 ... I would not have known that I could do that except that I got in there and tried it.” (19:44)

6. Self-Kindness and Moving Past Shame

• Dana reflects on how an attitude of permission-to-learn fosters greater kindness toward oneself.
  • Quote: “The more I learn, the more I am kind to myself about not already knowing things.” (21:05)
  • She emphasizes that frustration and shame about not already "getting it" are common in people struggling with clutter.

7. Universal Application of Learning by Doing

• Drawing analogies to school, recipes, and Harry Potter, Dana illustrates how hands-on practice is essential for true understanding—not just in decluttering, but in any skill or craft.
  • Quote: “Reading a recipe versus actually trying the recipe—the way you know how to cook the thing is actually trying the recipe...So I want you to take what you already know about how you have to go into the actual real life of doing something and apply that to decluttering.” (25:32)

8. Challenge to the Listener

• Dana invites listeners to start decluttering—even if imperfectly—for the explicit purpose of learning, applying her five-step process to a specific area: “I am going to follow the process exactly. Not because I'm saying it's perfect, but because I am going to learn if it works for me. It will.” (29:29)
• She encourages treating each attempt as an experiment where all outcomes add value.

9. Practical Example: Sentimental Items

• Regarding hesitancy around sentimental items, Dana urges trying the process as an experiment: “Try it for the purpose of learning whether or not the questions will work on that. Instead of saying, ‘Oh, I just couldn't possibly,’ try it—it does.” (31:58)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

| Time | Speaker | Quote | |---------|---------|-------| | 01:00 | Dana | “I hear from so many of you who assure me that it is helpful to you to hear the same concepts talked about over and over from different angles and different situations.” | | 07:22 | Dana | “I am going to go into this and say, I don’t know yet what I don’t know. And that is okay, because nobody knows everything.” | | 13:58 | Dana | “...grab a trash bag and start throwing away trash. You've heard me say that the first step of my no mess decluttering process is trash... but until you actually do it, you won't have fully learned it.” | | 15:45 | Dana | “If my goal is to learn and I fail, I learned what didn’t work. So I actually succeeded...at my goal of learning.” | | 19:44 | Dana | “I deadlifted £185 ... I would not have known that I could do that except that I got in there and tried it.” | | 21:05 | Dana | “The more I learn, the more I am kind to myself about not already knowing things.” | | 25:32 | Dana | “Reading a recipe versus actually trying the recipe—the way you know how to cook the thing is actually trying the recipe...” | | 29:29 | Dana | “I am going to follow the process exactly. Not because I'm saying it's perfect, but because I am going to learn if it works for me. It will.” | | 31:58 | Dana | “Try it for the purpose of learning whether or not the questions will work on that. Instead of saying, ‘Oh, I just couldn't possibly,’ try it—it does.” |

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:00–02:18: Introduction; value of repetition in learning; segue to personal anecdote
• 02:52–12:22: Gate/cows anecdote & permission to experiment/learn
• 12:22–19:44: Difference between knowing and doing; decluttering-specific advice; failure as learning
• 19:44–22:42: Lifting weights story; embracing hands-on learning and its emotional rewards
• 23:42–29:29: Book vs. practice learning analogies; challenge to start decluttering “for the purpose of learning”
• 29:29–End: Sentimental items; recap and final encouragement

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Final Thoughts & Takeaways

• Main Message: You don’t have to be an expert to start. Progress in decluttering (and life) comes from active participation and the willingness to experiment, make mistakes, and learn from them.
• Encouragement: If you find yourself endlessly preparing, studying, or waiting, shift your mindset—give yourself explicit permission to learn as you go.
• Actions for Listeners: Grab a trash bag, start at the entrance, and simply begin. Treat every step as a worthwhile experiment.

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Closing Note

Dana concludes with warmth and reassurance, acknowledging the struggle, celebrating small victories, and reminding listeners to be gentle and encouraging with themselves as learners—both in decluttering and in life.

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For further resources:
Dana mentions her five-step process and her book, "Decluttering at the Speed of Life," as well as resources found at aslobcomesclean.com.

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Summary Prepared For:
Listeners seeking actionable insights, encouragement, and a practical mindset shift for real-life decluttering and self-improvement.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to A Slob Comes Clean, the podcast. I am Dani K. White. I share my personal DES lobbification process as I figure out ways to keep my own home under control. I share the truth about cleaning and organizing strategies that actually work in real life for real people. People who don't love cleaning and organizing. Thanks for joining me today. This is podcast number 483 and I think I'm going to call it Permission to Learn. So I did try to look up to see if I've done another podcast called Permission to Learn, which, I mean, we're at podcast number 483 and I talk about decluttering week after week after week. And so I was pretty sure that I'd already done one on this because it's a topic I do talk about, but I didn't find it. Maybe I did. Whatever. I'm just going to talk about it some more because we can all use that. I hear from so many of many of you who assure me that it is helpful to you to hear the same concepts talked about over and over from different angles and different situations. And sometimes the same same angles and same situations because you're actively doing this thing and it keeps it top of mind and helps sometimes. It's. I mean, I. I had a video that came out a couple weeks ago where I talk about doing the thing now, like as part of the decluttering process. You know, instead of setting something aside like, oh, I need to order these special things to be able to complete this project. So I'm going to set it aside until later when I'm not decluttering, I'm ordering, but instead to say, oh, if I do this now, if I go ahead and order this item now, then I can continue with the process and I don't have to set it aside for a future time. And it's actually part of the decluttering process anyway. The reason I bring that up is somebody said, I have listened to all the things and it finally sunk in when you said this way about this specific situation, that doing the thing now is part of taking it there now. So I feel like I've already gotten on a tangent and we are maybe a minute in, I don't know, maybe two. 2 minutes and 18 seconds and I've already had a tangent.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[C]

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[A]

So let's talk about permission to learn. What do I mean by this? Well, I. I've been thinking about this. I. We've had a. Had an issue with our gate at our house that goes out into the pasture where our neighbor's cows graze. There's an entrance for them to get from our neighbor's land onto our land. And they graze on our land because that's part of our agricultural exemption, whatever for taxes and stuff. So they, they grazed on our land for many, many years before we bought the house. And we continued that relationship and made it official and everything legally, um, when we moved in because it's very helpful. We have 13 acres, so we have longhorn cows that graze on our land, which means we have to make sure that all of our gates are closed. Right. Which we're pretty good at. Um, but we did have one gate that somehow got a little bit wonky when I ran into it with our little side by side four wheeler. It's not a four wheeler, but you know, something like that. I kind of misjudged it when I went by the gate and I kind of knocked it a little bit and so the gate didn't close. Well. Well, my husband went out there and bungeed it and did all. Well, turns out that the cows somehow. There's this one cow, it's the same cow every time. Who. And it might be a bull, I don't know, but he or she gets out in that spot and it's because they figured it out once and they went, oh, I can get out from this spot. Well, then we've been doing all these different things to get this cow, this gate to be secure so that the cow doesn't get out. Because I personally am not great. Even though I have done it now many times at literally running down my country road chasing a cow to make sure that they are not in the road and they get back inside. Things I never thought that I would learn, but here I am learning it because this is my life. Anyway, this gate, I had tried lots of different things and then I saw, oh, there's a cow panel over here and cow fencing and Goat fencing and other kinds of fencing, they're all different things. I did not know. But a cow panel is a p. I think and I'm probably calling this the wrong thing, but in my understanding a cow panel is this kind of fencing that you use specifically for cows because that, that will keep them in. If it's going to be goats or whatever. It has to be like a smaller little squares in the, the wire of the, of the gate. How am I talking about decluttering? Anyway, But I saw this cow panel that had been in our house forever since we moved in. The people who we bought the house from had left it there. And I went over to get it and I thought, I wonder if there's a way I can finagle this onto this spot to make it more secure so that our lovely little. It's not like a full grown bowl. But anyway, he's. I call them teenager cows and they are the naughtiest for sure. Anyway, this. So that this teenager cow cannot, which I know a male is not a cow, but anyway cannot get out. And I went over and got it and I saw that it actually like sticks in the ground. Like, you know those, those garage sale signs or whatever, kind of the good signs where you can use your foot to push it down into the ground and the thing goes straight into the ground. It makes it super easy. And it was exactly what I needed it to be. And it had been sitting over there forever. But it wasn't until I said, you know what, I'm just going to see, I'm just going to see if I can do something with this cow panel. And I went over and got it that I realized, oh, that's how this one worked. I didn't even know they made cow panels that pushed down into the ground like that that were super easy to put into place. But it was only because I gave, I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know the best way to secure this gate, but I gave myself permission to say, I'm just going to go over and I'm going to see. I'm going to learn how to do this. I'm gonna learn if this is possible, if this cow panel would be helpful. And that was when I learned that, oh, this is amazingly helpful. And I will be going to tractor supply and I will be getting some more of those push down cow panels. I'll probably take a picture because I doubt I'll do a good job of explaining what it is because they'll be like, we don't Know what a cow panel is? Because that's not what anybody else calls it but you. Anyway, other things that I have learned since living here, I don't know how this is helpful, but anyway, I've learned cows don't eat weeds. Did y' all know that? I thought, oh, these cows are going to run on our land and we will never have to mow. And this is going to be great. Except that cows only eat grass. They don't eat weeds. Goats eat weeds, supposedly, but cows don't. And I was like, oh, well, that's kind of stinky because that means we still have to have somebody come in and mow the weeds, you know, and deal with the weeds. But my point is that there's so much to learn, and there are so many things when I think I fully understand a situation that I end up getting overwhelmed based only on what I think I understand. Where, when I give myself permission to learn and say, I am going to go into this and say, I don't know yet what I don't know. And that is okay, because nobody knows everything. And it is very easy to observe something from the outside and think you fully understand what's going on. But the only way to truly, truly learn is to get in there and live it, to do it, to try it, to pick up the cow panel. And by picking it up, realize, oh, this is actually super easy to install in the way that I need to. I just stick it in the ground, and it had rained, and so it was super easy to stick in the ground. Like, oh, now that I live where I see the grass and the weeds and the cows and the weeds growing every single day, now I know something that I didn't know before, but I thought I knew. I just had no question in my mind that cows ate anything green. They don't. So my point, decluttering related, is that I know so many of you because I hear from you. I just did a live Q and a on YouTube and multiple people had said, I know these things. How do I get started? Take the thing that you have studied, which you have studied, decluttering. Because you are listening to this podcast, it's possible it's the first episode you've ever listened to. Welcome. Most of you, though, have listened to a lot of my podcasts, or at least several of my podcasts. If you're listening to this one, many of you tell me you've listened to every single one. Because you go back to the one I did, like in 2013, which, I apologize, I did not know what I was doing. But you've listened to every single one. And that means that you know a lot of things about decluttering, but you still, if you're not able to get started, if you're still wondering, how do I actually do this thing, do it by giving yourself permission to learn through doing. Okay, pick up the cow panel. The decluttering equivalent would be grab a trash bag and start throwing away trash. You've heard me say that the first step of my no mess decluttering process is trash. You may have thought through that. You may have logically gone, I get it. I get why that's a easy decision, free emotion, free way to get started. That is. That sounds great. And yet you're still not starting because you're overwhelmed at the overall. So I can tell you, hey, there's value in throwing away trash. Even if that's all you do, there's value in taking a before picture, throwing away trash for five minutes, taking another picture and seeing the impact that you can make just through that one thing. But until you actually do it, you won't have fully learned it. Okay, there's taking that book learning. You know that academic learning, there's so much value in academic learning, right? If you've listened to every single podcast and you have not started decluttering yet, when you start decluttering, you're going to immediately go, that's what she was talking about. That's what she was talking about. You're going to be able to go quickly because you'll be able to get started. Maybe if you're not, if you go slowly, it's fine too, right? But this actually getting going, actually doing the thing, there's so much power and value in that. And the best way to get yourself to do that is to say, I am doing this for the purpose of learning. That means if I fail, I will still have achieved the purpose because I will have learned something by failing. So if my goal is to learn and I fail, I learned what didn't work. So I did learn. So I actually succeeded. And at my goal of learning, I think that made sense. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. The days being shorter truly does affect so many people in how they feel, and this can lead to isolation. It's more important than ever during this season to reach out and check in with our friends and loved ones to remind one another we're not alone. Give grandma a call, write a note to a friend thanking them for brightening your day. Grab lunch with someone you haven't connected with. Lately, I I still have a folder of notes that people have written me, some from as far back as junior high school, a friend who'd noticed I was having a bad day, notes from my parents, and just people who let me know they were thinking of me. These notes mean so much to me. If you or someone you know might benefit from connecting with a therapist during these darker days, consider Better help. 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That's Q-U I N C E.comclean to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com/clean here's some other things I've learned. I've learned there's a better way to declutter. I've learned that because I tried all the other ways. I tried the ways that people said were supposed to work and they did not work for me. I've tried other ways. That's how I developed my five Step no Mess decluttering process. That's in decluttering at the speed of life and organizing for the rest of us. That process was developed because I said I this isn't working, but I'm just going to keep trying things until I figure it out for you. You have the five step process and yet you still are not fully going to get it. Not going to understand it until you give yourself permission to learn it. Try it. Say I'm just going to see if it's true that starting with trash is the best way to get started. If you prove me wrong, which you won't, but if you prove me wrong, you'll have actually moved forward, which will be valuable to you. Okay. Some other things I've learned not decluttering related. I've learned there's a lot of power in increasing the weight of the weights that I lift consistently, constantly. I think I've mentioned here, right, that I've been working with a personal trainer for, oh, it's getting close to a year now and I it's like my favorite thing I've ever done exercise wise. And the thing that has surprised me the most is how basically every single week she makes me lift heavier and then heavier and then heavier. It's not tons heavier, but she makes me constantly go up and I'm like wait, what? Anytime where I've done this kind of Stuff on my own in the past, I just would stick with doing the same weight. I'd be like, oh, okay, this is the weight I can do. And then I would do that weight for months and months, and it was this big, huge decision to. To lift something heavier. And instead I'm like, oh, okay. But it wasn't until I got in there and I started working that I went, oh, I. I can actually lift heavier than I did, which I have to tell y', all, I. I deadlifted £185. And I don't really know if that's a big deal, but my husband and my son act like it is a big deal. And so, I mean, I am 51, right woman. And I'm kind of proud of myself. So it is a hex bar, which, if. If you know what I'm talking about, then you'll know what that is. If you don't, don't worry about it. But, like, I would not have known that I could do that except that I got in there and tried it. Here's the thing about learning. The more that I learn by giving myself permission to learn, the more I realize I have to learn, the more I actually get in there and do the thing. It shows me the value of learning and shows me I've got a lot more to continue learning. And I know that that sounds weird kind of to say, except that accepting that I don't have to be an expert from the beginning is so powerful in letting me actually make progress because I'm giving myself permission to learn. But the way that I learned that it was okay not to be an expert was by giving myself permission to learn at all and getting started and going, oh, there's value in doing this thing before I am an expert. The more that I learn, the more I'm kind to myself about not already knowing things. You know, a lot of the things that I teach, sometimes I have these moments where I go, this is so obvious. I can't believe I'm teaching this. This is embarrassing that I'm acting like this is some kind of a major revelation, because it was, for me, like, it was this big. Like, what containers are meant to serve as limits? Are you kidding me? I had no idea. But I hear from y', all, many of you, that you need to hear the things explained, right? And hearing the things explained helps you go, okay, that is so obvious. I didn't know it before, but the fact that someone is explaining it on a podcast that a lot of other people listen to, too, then validates the fact that, oh, okay, there's a lot of people that didn't know this. And the more that I give myself permission to learn, the more that I understand, oh, I've got so many things to learn, the more I am kind to myself about not already knowing things. Because when I don't have this mindset of listen, there's. It's valid to have to learn something. You know, I have permission to learn, and there's so much value in that. I can get really irritated with myself for not knowing something that I finally realize is actually pretty clear and obvious. And I think that that is one of the things that so many of us with clutter problems face is we look at our space and we go, how is this so hard? I mean, that was a huge, huge frustration for me. So I was like, I am a pretty decently intelligent person, and why is this hard? And I was. I would get so frustrated with myself, like, what is wrong with you, Dana, that you can't seem to do this? That this doesn't come naturally to you? When it seems like it comes naturally to every other person in the entire world. And instead, this permission to learn and going, oh, I can get a little bit better. And I get a little bit better by giving myself permission to learn. I'm like, you know what? It's okay. I didn't know that yet. It's okay that I didn't know that yet. I am constantly learning, which makes me a lot nicer person for myself to be around. It makes me talk more kindly to myself, like, hey, you didn't know that yet. It's okay. It also, I think, makes me a nicer person to be around other people. So that's all I'll say about that.

[B]

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[A]

You look the same.

[B]

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[A]

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[C]

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[A]

You are a learner. You're listening to a podcast about decluttering. But I will say, if you have listened to every single podcast and you're like, nope, I know so much about decluttering because I listened to the podcast. But you haven't actually done it. I'm going to say you haven't actually learned. So there's value in going ahead and doing this and saying that is the only way I'm really going to learn. There is not more to learn. Before you get started, if this is the only podcast you've ever listened to, if you will go to your place where guests enter the home, stand there as if you were a guest looking into your house and start throwing away trash, you will learn more by walking through your house, starting at your front door, throwing away trash. You're going to learn more in a different way than if you listened to every single one of the 483 podcasts, although it's probably about 481 because I think I've accidentally skipped a few here and there. You're going to learn more about that, more about decluttering, doing that than you will if you listen to every single podcast. First, because of the doing and saying, I don't know everything yet, but part of the learning is the doing for the purpose of learning. Experiencing is parting is part of the learning. I mean, like, that's what preschoolers do, right? I'm not comparing us to preschoolers. I'm just saying that's when learning was really fun. Like the hands on learning. Like, you hear about that. Like, you'll hear, okay, there's the book learning and then there's the getting in there into the lab and actually experiencing the things and doing, doing the things physically, like the hands on learning. We're gonna, you know, it's, it's one thing to tell kids about, you know, the three states of matter. Oh my goodness, why did I think that I was gonna start talking about science? I did not. Anyway, but the three states of matter, you know, we've got what, solid, liquid and gas. So we can explain those things to them. We can say, yes, something's solid. But then, you know, that same thing sometimes can be, you know, liquid, according to how much we've heated it. And then blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, gas and, you know, and you go into all that. But if you show a kid, which I don't know, because steam is not gas, is it? I don't know, whatever. But is it? Y' all will know, guarantee there's a bunch of science teachers listening right now going, dana, please stop talking about this. But if. If you show them, here's an ice cube. Ice cube. Here's an ice cube. It's solid. Feel this. See, it's hard. Okay, But I'm going to heat it. And now it's water. It's the same thing, but it's a different state of what? Okay. And then we're going to keep heating it. And then, you know, not with preschoolers right there, but. But we're going to keep heating. And you can see the steam go up. And so it's in three different forms. You know, like, that is where you go, oh, now I get it. Now I get it. I've read about it versus how I get it. So I'm reading the Order of the Phoenix right now. I'm rereading it. It's the sixth Harry Potter book. And it just helps my brain to like, because I enjoy it enough that I keep reading it, but I'm not, like, so caught up because I've read it before, so I don't have to, like, I don't ignore the rest of my life to keep reading it. Anyway, so I'm reading that and it's the one if you haven't read it. Oh, well. But it's probably not a spoiler, but there's Dolores Umbridge. She becomes one of their teachers at Hogwarts, and she's the worst ever. She is the absolute worst. I'm just saying it. Everybody knows it anyway. But, you know, she's newly a teacher there and she's horrible and she's really big on, you're just gonna learn theory. And the kids are like, what? We're not actually gonna learn how to do something. She's like, no, you're just gonna learn about it. You're gonna learn it from the books. And they're like, but we're going to be actually tested at the end of this year on how to do this thing. She's like, well, if you've studied hard enough, you'll probably be fine. And all the kids are sitting there going, no, we won't. We have to actually practice the thing. And so that made me think about this. But we all know, like, when you take a Step back. If you look at other situations in your life, you know that reading a recipe versus actually trying the recipe, the way you know how to cook the thing is actually trying the recipe. You already know this about other things. So I want you to take what you already know about how you have to go into the actual real life of doing something and apply that to decluttering. You probably have an area of expertise in your life that you know drives you crazy, that other people read about it or think about it or talk about it, but they don't actually know. Like, maybe you're a marathon runner and you're like, I know all the things about marathon running and I really know them because I actually run a marathon. That's me acting as you. I'm not saying I run a marathon and I won't ever. But you know how much it drives you bananas to hear people talk about something that they haven't actually done yet. And you're going, ah, well, here's how it really works, you know, and you just think, I wish they would give it a try because then they would understand. You've got something like that, crafting, sewing, whatever. People have assumptions, we all have assumptions about how things work. But the people who are actually doing the things, they can explain. This is really how this works. I get it. I know how to do this thing now. And so apply that same feeling that you have about other things, like, oh, if these people would just actually try it, then they would understand. If you have found yourself not able to get started on decluttering, apply that that you would give as advice to somebody in this other area to decluttering for yourself and say, I'm going to take it from knowing the process, hearing the process, doing a little bit here and a little bit there. And instead I am going to try it. I'm going to do some hands on learning. I'm going to take it from the textbook to real life. I'm going to see what happens even with this mentality that it is just for the purpose of learning. So I did a video. It's been probably a year or so ago that it came out, but with my husband and we had all these boxes that needed to be recycled and we were like, oh, there's a recycling place we've heard about that we can drive it to. Oh, we should. But we didn't know what it was going to be like. So I said, let's just do this as permission. Let's just give ourselves permission to learn. Let's just say we are going to go and I mean, he was going to go, it wasn't me. But we're just going to go and say, if we fail miserably, that's fine because we'll know things after we fail that we don't know now. Like, we're just going to learn what the process is like. And after doing that, it wasn't scary anymore, which then helped us not procrastinate on getting those things done. Because we're like, oh, it's no longer the unknown. You're taking it from the unknown to the known by actually doing that, doing the thing for the purpose of learning. Because practicing is part of learning. If you think about, you know, in school, a good teacher, they don't just say something one time. It is not fair to the students. For a teacher to mention something one time and expect the students to truly understand that thing. It requires practice. I can show you how to do long division. I mean, not me, because it would take me a while to remember how to do it. I'm pretty sure I could do it. But like, I can explain to you how to do long division, but until you practice doing long division, you're not truly going to understand it and know and know how to deal with the, the things that come along, the scenarios that come along. So what does this mean for decluttering? Try the process. If you find yourself like, oh, I'm finding, say I'm gonna go get Dana's five step process. I'm gonna read decluttering to be alive or reread it, get it from the library, whatever. Um, I'm going to get her printable at a slob comes clean.com 5f I V E. I'm going to read that and I'm going to go through and I'm going to say for the purpose of learning how this process works that I've heard about and I've gone, oh yeah, and I've used bits and pieces of here and there and it's been successful for me. I'm going to go through the process and say for this space right here, this cabinet full of things, this junk drawer, I am going to follow the process exactly. Not because I'm saying it's perfect, but because I am going to learn if it works for me, it will. I'm going to learn if this works. I'm going to learn how to do the process by doing it. And so you start with the trash and you fight the temptation to pull everything out of the space and you go through all the way to the end to where you are consolidating, like, items together, and then you are saying, this space is still not functional, so I'm going to remove my least favorite things until it's functional. You go through all of that with this mindset of learning being the thing that gets you to actually do it, Right? Like, that is the. The. The bump to get over. The. The thing to get started is to say, I'm going to do this for the purpose of learning. It takes so much pressure off, and it gives value to success, failure, all of that, because all of it is learning, and there's so much value in that. And the more I learn, the more confident I feel, but also the more I know that there is more to learn and that doing things with the mindset of learning is the way to get started. Okay, I hope that's been helpful. I feel like it's a little bit rambly, but it's one of those things I've been thinking about. Give yourself permission to learn that mindset shift will help you if you are like, oh, no, no. This is the thing that the. The five step process couldn't possibly work on. Oh, this is a highly sentimental ring of my grandmother's. So there's no way that the decluttering questions would work on that. Try it. Try it for the purpose of learning whether or not the questions will work on that. Instead of saying, oh, I just couldn't possibly try it, it does. Ask yourself, if I needed my grandmother's ring, where would I look for it first? Whatever pops into your head is the place that you would look first. If you were searching for your grandmother's ring that you knew you had. Go take it to that spot, see if there's room for it, get rid of something else if there's not room for it, or decide that, you know what, there isn't room for it, I'm not willing to get rid of something else for it. So it actually needs to go, like, go through that whole process and learn how it works and why it works and what to do along the way. Okay. Okay, I will talk to y' all next week. Bye.