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Welcome to a Slob Chems Clean the Podcast. I am Dana K. White. I share my personal deslobification process as I figure out ways to keep my own home under control. I share the truth about cleaning and organizing strategies that actually work in real life for real people. People who don't love cleaning and organizing. Thanks for joining me today. This is podcast number 486 and I think I'm going to call it Function. Always needed in Every Space. Great practice in the kitchen. That's a long title, but hey, whatever. Yeah, function, function, function is always important. It is especially important in spaces where activities have to be done. Like spaces that are designed for activity. You know, the living room is designed for living. Living can mean different things. It can mean sitting down and resting. It can mean playing a board game. It can mean, you know, walking through and, I don't know, whatever. But a kitchen is a place to cook. That is its purpose. Its purpose is to prepare food. Whether or not you're preparing food from scratch or getting things out of the refrigerator and sticking it straight in the oven and eating it. All of these things our function. So the kitchen is all about function. So I'm answering specifically kitchen related questions today all around that idea. As we go into the holidays, this is a great time to think about the function of your kitchen and to experience the power of really doing things with function in mind. If you're listening to this After Christmas, it's not a Christmas related episode. It is something that, you know, people want to eat all the time. When my kids were little, I think that was one of the hardest things about, I mean, now you see it in memes all the time. But I remember that being one of the hardest things about being a mother was there were people who depended on me to eat multiple times every single day. That is my favorite thing about going to camp with the teenagers or whatever is somebody else is deciding the food. I am not the one having to decide even more than the fixing. Well, so it's nice to have someone else fix it. But you know, it's. This is a reality. It is a constant thing. I know that there is. I think she's still around her name, I think her name was Laura, but org Junkie. Like Organizing Junkie was her website and she hosted Menu Plan Monday for years. And maybe she still does, but she made the point because she was passionate about organizing that getting your meals organized has an effect through the rest of your, your house. And I completely agree with that. I think that that's a really good A really good point because it's something that happens every single day. And so having some kind of organization around that is incredibly helpful. I wasn't planning on advertising my meal planning course, but here it is a slobcamsclean.com makedinner happen. I have a very, very basic unfancy, like the least fancy course you will ever take. It's like $16 to how I pre cook my meats and proteins and use those over the course. It's two weeks worth of meals based on that to kind of get you used to this way of cooking. I also, you know, I have several sponsors that are me planning sponsors. I am a big, huge advocate of that. I think it is such a fantastic way to do that. But that's not what we're talking about today. What we're talking about today is the function of the space of the kitchen. So here's some questions. These were asked@askdanak white.com you can always go there and ask questions. They don't get answered in real time, but they might be answered on a future podcast or you YouTube live. Okay. Bakeware. I love to bake. I think this is the question asker talking, not me. Even though I there have been times in my life where I said I love to bake. I don't think I would say that right now, but anyway, bakeware. I love to bake. I think I must have every size, shape, type of cake pan and sheet pan ever made. I moved moved them from my kitchen to a spare bedroom closet and thought about putting them in totes to store them in my basement as well. The older I get 70, the less I use them. But I just know the minute I donate them, I'll be kicking myself because somebody will request that their special layer cake or cookie cake or roll cake or cookies. And I'll either have to buy another pan or turn down the request. Thoughts? Okay. Yeah. So it's all about function and there's several things at play in here. There is the fact that you didn't have the room in your actual kitchen and you moved them to the spare bedroom closet. Okay. You've thought about actually putting them in totes and putting them in the basement. I am not. There are people who would say, oh no, no, no, don't do that. I'm just gonna say if you're 70. Okay. And let's say that you have an open spare bedroom closet and this is the place where you want to keep this thing for this hobby. That sounds like it's a Big part of your identity, right? Like cooking these cakes. Baking these cakes is a big part of who you are and being able to do that. And special requests and things that people want, that absolutely plays into this. But function is the issue. So I like that you've already realized I don't have the room for these in my kitchen. If that closet is totally available, then sure. Where I would say, let's also consider function, though, is in the idea of putting them in totes and putting them in the basement. Once that happens, they are by definition so much less accessible. You know, I always say I teach the container concept, which is space is limited. I put the most important things in first. And when the space is full, that determines how much of something I can keep. The same thing goes here. But your unique interests, your unique hobbies, this thing that you use to show love to people in your life, these cooking of these different things, these baking. I always say cooking, but I know cooking, bake, whatever. You know what I mean? It plays into that. That is what determines what's most important to you. So there's not an arbitrary rule of you shouldn't have baking stuff in the closet in your guest room. Well, if you don't need that space for something else, if that is space that you need for winter coats and you live in Alaska and that's the only place you have for winter coats, then that fact of life determines I can't have all this baking stuff because I don't have space for both the winter coats that I need to survive and the baking stuff. But if I do have the space, okay, but then that space becomes the limit. And instead of it necessarily being a. Thinking of it as an overflow of the kitchen, instead, you designate this closet that you are able to designate if you. You are as. This is where I put my hobby stuff of baking. But it's a limited space. So if. If that space gets full and then the idea is, okay, then I'll put the overflow packed away in the. The basement. Then we get into the function of. Realistically, at the age of 70, I have no idea how easily accessible the basement is for you, but it's only going to get a little bit harder the longer that this goes on. Right? So let's talk about the function of that. Is realistically putting the stuff in the basement a kiss of death for that stuff? Like, is it actually going to get used if it goes down there? Do you have the space for that? Would you ever think to look for it there first? What I would recommend Is, is that because this is something that doesn't necessarily get used all the time, but does get used, that you let that hobby space of the closet be the limit and instead of thinking of it as all the things that could possibly ever be used, instead say, this is the space that I have for the bake, for my hobby of baking. That is a big part of my identity and how I show love. So I'm going to put the most important things in there first. And suddenly when you put the most important things in there first, it naturally sorts out what stays and what goes. Now, I am not a baking expert and everybody knows that. However, saying every size, every shape, every type of cake pan and sheet pan ever made, I'm just going to guess that one of each of those things might fit in the closet. But maybe you have more than one of those things. Maybe you have all the things you could need if you were to bake the things, bake the cakes for a 400 person wedding. But maybe you're at a point where you don't want to do 400 person weddings anymore. Maybe the function of your life right now is that yes, you'll bake a cake, but you're not going to do a catering order. And so then that becomes an issue of I don't need to be able to cook to bake six sheet cakes, but I'd like to be able to bake one sheet cake if that's needed. And maybe the one would fit in there. And then if you say every type of cake pan, well then that makes me imagine I only have what is in front of me, the words in front of me to go on. So I'm, I don't know everything right here, but I'm envisioning that you have multiple different types of rounds, cake pans, maybe different, made out of different materials, made, maybe made out of whatever. And you pick the one and you say, you know what, if somebody wants a round cake, then I'd like to be able to cook two layers at a time. If they want a four layer round cake, I don't need 12 round pans. I could do two because two would take me longer. But also you're not baking as often and as consistently. So maybe it's something that you do take a little more time to do. I could do two or I could tell them, hey, do you want a two layer cake? Would that be okay? Because that's all I have now, otherwise, you know, it'll take me longer to get it done. All of these things that I'm saying, though, are going to become clear to you as you embrace the reality of that cloud closet. Now, let's say that the closet isn't available, that you stuck it in there, but there's a ton of other stuff that has to be in there, and you really don't have any room in there for it. And now it's just a big mess, and that's not the option. Well, then the same thing could be said within your kitchen. You say, I still want to be able to bake. I'm not going to be able to bake every possible thing that could ever be imagined by someone. But I'm gonna say this space in my kitchen, I'm going to designate it for baking things. And it might be a whole lot smaller than that closet. And so you might not be able to do a sheet cake because you don't have a cabinet that big for it for that in there, even though you maybe do, because you already used to do these. But this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to pick the most important things that I could do the most variety with and let that container be the limit. And then the container being the limit that actually allows you to function both in your kitchen and your home is the thing that helps with this. What if these things happen in the future? Because you said, I just know, and you put in know in quotation marks that the minute I donate them, I'll be kicking myself because somebody will request that special layer cake or cookie cake or roll cake or cookies, and I'll either have to buy another pan or turn down the request. If the container is the deciding factor, then if you have to turn down the request or if you have to adjust the request, you say, you know what? I don't have my roll pan anymore. I don't actually know what a roll pan is. I don't have my roll pan anymore. But I could make you a bundt cake and it'd be very similar. Most people are going to say, that sounds great. They just pictured it the way that it was before. But you don't have that anymore. And it's not, oh, no, it's, my container is full. My container was full. I didn't have room for that, but I did have room for this, this, and this. And I could make you a version of what you're imagining, but in this format. That letting the container be the limit is incredibly powerful in all of these what ifs, because the what ifs don't matter. What matters is reality. That you're actually experiencing right now. And then you let that be your reason or your excuse or the thing that you blame. If those what ifs happen, you say, I loved those role cake, roll cake. I can't picture what a roll cake is. But anyway, isn't that the kind where you have the pumpkin loaf or pumpkin roll? I don't know. You let that be the excuse. You let that be the thing that lets you let it go. What kinds of things do you or people you have worked with keep in upper corner kitchen cabinets? They are awkward sized and the back area is hard to reach. Thank you. I love this question. This is all about function. I in my corner cabinet, I keep baking stuff, which we were just talking about baking stuff mostly because I don't do a lot of baking and therefore there's not that much stuff. I do have some lazy Susans in there. So the little round turny, roundy things that have the few baking items that I have and then the back part of that space is wasted, but it's not wasted because I just don't have anything there because it's not practical for me to get back there. And so I don't put anything back there. And this is really hard, this whole idea of wasted space. If I was one of those kinds of people, I would be like, well, that's just. Wasted space is a term made up by the people who want to sell you organizing products. But I mean, I would be right if I said that because knowing what I know now about the reality of I have a clutter threshold and there is an amount of stuff that I can easily keep under control and some organizing systems just don't work. And if my goal is how can I fit more into this space, then I'm going to have more stuff than I can handle. And there's no hope of me ever having it under control. What I know now is that I'm better off if I just have less stuff. So anytime where I'm thinking, oh, that's wasted space, it used to be, oh, well, then I should shove something back there. Until someday when I figure out the very best way to organize this space or the very best product or the very best, whatever, now I'm like, it's wasted space, okay? But it's not wasted because it's empty. Therefore I can see that there's nothing there. If I try to shove a bunch of stuff there, I can't see what's there. And I just have this vague feeling that I've got things, but I Don't know where they are, and I don't know how to access them. And if I was to access them, it would take forever to try to get all that stuff out of there, and it would be such a pain to put it back. So instead, I just don't look at it that way anymore. I say, okay, that space is impractical. It's hard for me to get to. So I just don't use that space. Does it mean that sometimes over time, things kind of get put in there or added, and then things get pushed a little bit toward the back? Yes. And then I declutter and I leave that space empty again, the key comes down to where would you look for it first, if you would look for an obscure item that maybe gets used once every year, once every two years, that. That you would actually look for in the back part of that, that you would actually be in the same. The correct mindset to clear everything out so that you can actually reach back there and get it out, then, okay, store it back there. But if you wouldn't look for something back there, and you also wouldn't, if it's something that gets used on a regular basis, when you're not going to be in the right mindset to carefully move the things in front of it and get to it and then carefully put those things that were in front of it back in front of the space where that. Where it was, then declutter to the point where the things that you actually need are going to be easily accessible in the reality of the space. That is something that actually is a good point that I just thought of. You know, here we are. I think this is coming out either on Thanksgiving or the day after Thanksgiving or week before Thanksgiving. I don't know. The thing about the holidays that I find is a lot of the things that I use one time a year, I can have them in my home if they fit. Because I do use them one time a year. Right. Which I don't justify things according to when I use it. I justify it according to where would I look for it and is there space for it there. But those things that get used once a year, I'm in a very different mindset when I'm making Thanksgiving dinner or Christmas dinner or, you know, I was going to say cooking for a Christmas party, except that often those are the times when I am in a little bit of a hurry when I'm like, aha, we got a Christmas party tonight. But that mindset that I have is different. Like when I cook For Thanksgiving or Christmas. I love those days because I generally have nothing else to do that day. I'm going to spend all day in the kitchen. So those items that I get out for that, I have a. I have a little strainer that I use when I make a big, huge pot of mashed potatoes. And I did a video on this, and people were like, why do you need a strainer for mashed potatoes? I'm like, well, because when I do it for Thanksgiving, I try to follow the recipe exactly. It's the pioneer woman recipe. And it's. You can't eat it all the time because it's got so much good stuff in it. Cream, cheese, butter, all that stuff. And I cut up all my potatoes, which takes forever because there's so many. And it's a huge batch. And I have the water boiling, and so the water's boiling, and I need to put those potatoes in there. And I lower them into the boiling water when they're in the strainer so that I'm not just, like, throwing them in there and then boiling water is splashing on me. Ask me how I know that that could happen. So I. I really just use that strainer for that occasionally. I'll use it for something else when I need it. But that's like the time when I make those potatoes, which might be for Easter as well. Easter, Thanksgiving, Christmas. I make those mashed potatoes, and I need that. Well, I am in a very different frame of mind when I'm making those mashed potatoes, because I don't make them on a busy night. I make them on a day where I've basically set the day aside to make those mashed potatoes and maybe the dressing and this other special recipe and a pie or whatever. I am in the mode where that day I am cooking special things, and that's it. That's all I'm doing. And so I am much more able to carefully open that drawer, move the couple of things that have to be moved for me to get that strainer out. It's a different mindset so that where would I look for this item first and in the kitchen, because we're talking about function. If it's something I'm using all the time on busy nights where I got to get dinner on the table, and I am just trying to get the thing done as quickly as I can get it done, then it needs to be something where I open up the cabinet and I can just quickly grab it. And I haven't had to move anything to do that. But if I would look for something that I use once a year or twice a year in a more inconvenient place. Then if I'm going to be in the frame of mind to be able to get it out of the inconvenient place without causing a crappa lunch in my kitchen, then I can do that. So it's all about that function. Other things I will say there. I do have a stair step, which I know they have these on Amazon. I think I got the first ones I ever got at Container Store. They probably have them at Walmart, but they're these stair step things and I do use that for my canned goods. So it's just a little plastic thing and it spreads out to cover the entire size of the cabinet and it makes the back of the cabinet have three short levels so that I can see the cans more easily and get to them more easily. I will tell you too, the top. I have an entire cabinet that I cleared off the top shelf and it's just been completely empty for four or five months now. It's wasted space. I don't care because I wouldn't look for anything up there. And so I just let it be empty. And. And strangely, this. There's this part of me, that part of me that enjoys being a little bit difficult when I see that empty space. And I'm like, huh, Wasted space. Awesome. I love wasted space because it's just empty, wasting space. Actually, this could be its own podcast and maybe it has been in the past. Wasted space. When space is actually wasted, it's generally because I've shoved so many things in there that now I'm too overwhelmed to remember what's in there or. Or to have the strength or the energy or the desire to dig through and find what I think might be in there. That's really wasted space. Our most visible space is our kitchen. This is the main door we use and the door visitors use. It seems like such a big project. I have tried starting with small sections and made some progress, but it is difficult because in a kitchen you do have to work in cabinets as well as on counters. I've been making good progress in other areas, but feel so discouraged every time I walk in there. Any advice to help me focus on seeing progress on anything? Great question. I love this question. Follow the visibility rule and here's what I'm going to say for the kitchen, what that means. Start with your surfaces first. And I completely understand that some of you are yelling at your phone or your car or whatever right now and saying, but I have to clear out the cabinets so I'll have places to put things. Focus on your surfaces first. And I don't believe that there are any rules about. And I know there are people who believe in these kinds of rules. Right. I don't consider there to be any rules of you should never have your toaster on the counter, you should never have your blender on the counter. If you're fine with it, that's fine. But the counter does need to be functional. So because I have focused on function, a lot of things that I used to keep out, I no longer keep out as a rule, like regularly, always out. Because I view the empty space where I would pull out a cutting board and chop. I was going to say onions and tomatoes. And we really don't chop onions and tomatoes because we don't like onions and tomatoes, but chop cucumbers or whatever. I view that space as already taken space because it needs to be open for me to be able to perform the function that I need to form in the kitchen. So that has naturally meant that a lot less stuff lives on the counters than used to. But it. But that's up to you, right? Declutter your counters first, with function being the goal and function being open space, which will also help a lot with this struggle that you're having of the kitchen being a mess and that being the first. First thing people see. Start with the surfaces, because that is the visibility rule, right? The kitchen is your visibility rule. Place that you're going to be because it's what people see. The surfaces are what people are going to see first. So start there and go through the five step decluttering process. Start with the trash. Just look for the trash on the countertops and get rid of that if there's not any. Great, there probably is if you just go, is there any obvious trash that I just haven't noticed until now when I'm purposefully looking for it? Look for trash. Is there anything easy? Is there anything that has drifted onto the kitchen cabinets? This happens all the time. And then it stays there for a while and your brain doesn't register that it's out of place because it's been there so long. So purposefully say, is there anything that's on the kitchen counters right now that belongs somewhere else in the house, but for whatever reason, it got placed on the kitchen counters? I'm going to go ahead and get that out. The next obvious donations. Is there anything that's on these kitchen counters that I could just stick in the donate box? Is There, the blender that I've never one time used. And I don't mean to convince yourself that it's okay to get rid of the blender. I'm saying, is it actually a duh, obvious donation to you? Just give yourself that moment of reality. This set of measuring cups that are supposed to be decorative, it's just not working. They just always look like I've got junk out on the counter. Okay, that kind of thing. I'm going to get rid of those because they're not ones I would actually use. Whatever. Go through those first three steps of the process. And remember those first three steps are decision free. They do not use any emotional energy. The beauty of that is that by the time you have removed the trash, the easy stuff and the obvious donations, at that point your counters already look better. Not that you're done, but you feel less overwhelmed and you've already made some progress, you've already built some momentum and you have a much better idea of what there actually is to deal with at this point. Go down your counters and ask item by item, if I needed this item, where would I look for it first? Some things in our house, our coffee maker has to live on the counter. It is just reality. We are never going to store that inside of a cabinet. My dishwasher tabs live on the countertop because that's where I want them to live. And that's fine. But purposefully going and saying, if I needed this item, where would it look for it? Where would I look for it first? Can make me trigger, oh, this is, this space is not functional because of this. And if you think, but it's always lived here, but I don't want it to live here. Okay, if this countertop were clearer, were as clear as I wanted it to be, where would I look for this first? If it wasn't here, because this countertop was clear and let's say that's your sugar jar, bin, sugar bin, whatever. And you're like, I really want to have less stuff up here. If the sugar bin was not here on the counter, where would I look for it first? Go with the instinct. Most likely it's going to be the cabinet above or below where you're standing right now. I would look for it in here where my coffee stuff is. You know, like the. I'm picturing my own kitchen. I'm sure you can tell. Open up that space, take it there now and get rid of something in order to make the space for that. Maybe it's the coffee that somebody gave you when they went on a trip overseas and brought you back coffee, and you had it one time, and you were like, wow, we like really dark coffee. But this is next level. Again, speaking from my own experience. Before, it was just coffee, and so it lived there. But when you have this mentality of, I don't want my kitchen counters to be clearer and I don't want my sugar bin to live on the kitchen counter, and I need a place to put it, and this is where I would look for it first. Then all of a sudden I realize, oh, well, this coffee that somebody brought me from another country, that's too dark for me, and we're actually not going to actually ever drink, can go. And it becomes a. If it's unopened, obvious donation or trash. And I know it's hard, but it's the facts of the space that are allowing me to make these hard decisions. Does that coffee have value? Of course it does. Can I send a picture of it to a friend and say, I know you like dark coffee, so do we, but this is next level. Do you want to have it? You come over and get it by tomorrow or I'm gonna throw it away. You know, whatever. You can do that if you want. But the function of this space is the thing that lets me make that decision. And so I go to put the sugar away, and instead of clearing out that whole cabinet first, I'm just putting the sugar away in the place where I would look for it first if it was not out on the counter. And all I have to do is get rid of something that deserves to be in this place where I would look for it first less than the sugar, because the sugar is important. I have to have the sugar. And the sugar needs a place to live, and it needs to live in the place where I would look for it first. So you clear the cabinets of anything that doesn't have to live there. That way, instead of thinking, I've got to clear out the cabinets first so I'll have places to put that, so I'm clearing the surface first. You're going to be making visible progress. You're going to start feeling better and feeling capable of doing this. It's going to immediately make a positive impact in the way that you want on the issue that you're wanting to tackle. The surfaces are getting better immediately because everything that comes off of that counter into a cabinet, something else is leaving. You're not just stuff shifting because you are displacing something by putting that item in there. If that space was already full. And then you do that all the way down the counter till you are left with only the things that really do need to live on the counter. And then you've made a huge visible impact. You have achieved what you wanted to achieve when you wanted to work on the kitchen, because that was your most visible area. And now people can come in and you feel all better about things. Now go cabinet by cabinet and use the no mess process on an individual shelf or an individual cabinet. Looking for trash. Easy stuff that you already know where it goes. This just goes somewhere else. Obvious donations. And then asking yourself, if I needed this item, where would I look for it first? Like go through individual cabinets or shelves, doing that, using the no mess process so that you're not creating a bigger mess. But you've already achieved that visible difference that you were wanting to achieve in your. Your kitchen. I think in the kitchen, I would say everywhere. Start with your visible surfaces first. Start with surfaces first. Dana, I was wondering what you thought about storing new kitchen items. Until I build my forever home. I do have the space for them, but I feel like it might be silly to store them for what might be three years. Thank you for all you do. Instead of thinking of it as if you have the space and you want to store them, great. If you have the space, but you feel a little bit. You said, I feel like it might be silly. If it's important to you and you have space, you're fine. If you would like to declutter them, go ahead and go through the process, because those first three steps will remove the things that don't need to be there. Whether you're in the home you're in now or whether you're in the home you're in in the future. Do that in your existing cabinets full of stuff that you are using currently every day. Go ahead and declutter that. Because if something doesn't need to be in that space in any kitchen, go ahead and get it out. Go ahead and consolidate and go through the whole process in those spaces that you're using, which is then going to free up even more space and make it even more functional in your kitchen. And then these things that you're kind of storing for the future, go through those and just determine are these things, where would I look for it first? Okay, I would look for it first in this area where I store things for a future house that we're going to have. Okay, well, I put those things in that space because that's where I would look for it first. But that space is limited. And as life continues over the next three years, I have no idea what phase of life you're in, because I don't have it here in front of me. But let's say that, you know, you have another child in a year and a half, okay? At this point, that second child's things might displace some of those things that are in the spot where you would look first for the things that you don't need now for a kitchen, but you might need in a future home, you know, and it's gonna. It's gonna work its way out. Go ahead and go through the decluttering process, because a lot of the things that those first three steps get out of your house, and I mean steps four and five as well, are the things that have no business being there, no matter where you live. Because what. What isn't helpful? And I know this from personal experience because this is how I got into my mess. I was always like, oh, I might need this in my next house. I might have room for this in my next house. And so I just kept it. What isn't helpful is having so much stuff that I feel overwhelmed. And then, therefore, I'm going to start out that next space already overwhelmed. Last question for this one. We just moved house, and our kitchen here is much smaller. We currently have a temporary pantry sitting in the living room to house extra food, which is super ugly and weird. What to do with extra consumables? I got carried away buying herbal tea, which I feel like I said I should say herbal tea because you said we just moved house. And I feel like if you say we just moved house, you would probably say herbal. I'm sure y' all will correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like the phrasing is not American there, which I love it. Okay, pasta. Or maybe you would say pasta like lasagna and things like bran, because we had space before. None of these I use much at all, but I could eat them. It would take me a long time to use them up. Do I keep my ugly pantry until I have eaten all this weird stuff? The same issue applies with bathroom consumables, okay? If you want to eat it up for the purpose of being able to get rid of that ugly temporary pantry, great. But decluttering it, either by donating it to a food pantry or even trashing the things that have been opened and can't be donated, decluttering it would be a lot faster, less miserable way to do that, because several of these things it just doesn't sound like you're excited about it. You were excited when you bought it, but you're not excited about it now. Maybe you tried the herbal tea and you didn't actually like it. You thought it was going to be great, and you didn't actually like it. This happens all the time. So this comes down to function. If you want to eat it so that you can free up that space and get that cabinet out, then the solution would be to eat it, to start drinking herbal herbal tea every afternoon, to start to bake a lasagna tonight, tomorrow night, to eat the bran in the mornings with your. With your herbal tea. But if you're not willing to do that, then the legitimate, viable option is for you to donate what you can and trash the rest or offer, you know, give it away, send it out a text. People who live nearby, hey, anybody want some herbal tea or lasagna? Because I am setting it on my porch. You can come pick it up if you want it. That is the thing that moves you forward. What moves you forward? Because as long as you're debating over this, nothing's actually happening. So saying this is what I'm going to do is great, but only if I actually do it. If I say I'm going to do it, because this is what I should do, this is what I need to do, but I'm not actually going to do it, then a much better thing to do is. Is the other thing that you'll actually do, even though it's not ideal. All right, I hope that was helpful. I hope that you have had a wonderful beginning of your holiday season. I know if you say herbal, then you probably didn't celebrate Thanksgiving the way we did here in the US But y' all know what I mean. And we're heading into the Christmas holiday time, and I hope that you can focus on your kitchen being functional, enjoy your family, enjoy what you're doing, enjoy what you're working on, and have it in your mind that every teeny tiny thing I do to make this space more functional, either by just going ahead and throwing it out or going ahead and using it, or going ahead and donating it, is going to make it so much easier to function in this space. All right, I will talk to y' all later.