← podcasts Archives - Dana K. White: A Slob Comes Clean
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- [00:00]
A
Y', all, the Take youe House Back course is on sale right now.
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If you want to make major changes in your home in the new year.
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A
Grab this course now. So I teach this course with dawn from the Minimal mom and Cass from Clutterbug. We have a lot of fun there. But most importantly, people take their houses back even after years of struggling. Tens of thousands of people have gone through this course and absolutely love it. To learn more and grab it while it's on sale, go to aslob comes clean.com take that's aslobcomesclean.com to get it while it's on sale for $94. Welcome to a Slob Chems Clean the Podcast. I am Dana K. White. I share my personal desalabification process as I figure out ways to keep my own home under control. I share the truth about cleaning and organizing strategies that actually work in real life for real people. Even people who don't love cleaning and organizing. Thanks for joining me today. This is podcast number 493 and I think I'm going to call it. Hold on while I look at my notes.
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I think I'm going to call it.
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Going Beyond Survival Mode.
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So in this conversation, my guest has.
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A newborn and is feeling very overwhelmed.
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B
You may not have a newborn.
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A
I am, let's see, almost 20 years past the newborn stage, which is a little wild to think how quickly that 20 years passed. But the same types of principles apply. Whatever the reason for you feeling overwhelmed, if you feel like you've been living in survival mode, I think this is gonna help you. And it's just, it's always so.
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I'm always so thankful to those of.
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My kindred spirits, my patreon people who are willing to share these sessions with.
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The world and I think we can.
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Learn a lot from each other and just putting the same strategies into different situations so that you can then see.
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How it applies there.
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So then you can see how it applies in your own situation. So hope you enjoy this conversation. Here you go.
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B
Elizabeth, thanks so much for joining me. I'm excited that you're here.
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C
Yeah, thanks for having me.
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B
So tell me a little bit about your unique life situation.
- [02:27]
C
Yeah, I'm married with three kids. I have a she'll turn six next month and a three year old and a three month old. I stay home with them but I also write books, picture books and working on another one long form book too. So very excited. Those are not. Neither one is released yet but they will be very soon.
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B
So that is so exciting. When is your children's book getting released?
- [02:54]
C
Probably next fall. We were hoping for this fall, but I think it's going to have to wait till next year, so.
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B
That's so exciting. My first children's book comes out in February.
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C
That's right.
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A
Yeah.
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It has been a whole new process.
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C
Yeah. I've never done this before, so I'm like, I don't know what else to say. Just. Yeah, it's very exciting.
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B
It is, it's exciting. I'm more excited about it than I've been about anything in a very long time. I'm like, you know, I just, I was so much fun. Right. And I see like so much value in it. And like these are the, this is what I didn't understand when I was a kid. So it's just so fun. That's really cool. I didn't realize you did that. That's awesome.
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C
Yeah.
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B
So tell me some things that are working well for you in your house.
- [03:40]
C
Well, one, one other thing about, if I can, about our unique situation. We do have housekeepers that come twice a month and, and I'm so grateful we have them, especially with like, I was going to cancel them before we found out we were pregnant and I was like, never mind. I need them still. So. Especially in like the pre. Baby and the postpartum time. But I do find, I don't really, I don't, I rely on them exclusively. I don't use them well as far as like support for me. Like, they're, they're what keeps our house running. And so I do want to get better at that, letting them fill in the gaps while I actually do the stuff that I need to do more. More than just the bare minimum. So that, but I guess like what, what is working well in our house most of the time is do the dishes. We can get the dishes done in the day and get them put in the dishwasher at the, at night time. And then with new school schedules this year, they're not getting put away first thing, but they are getting put away during the day and it's only taking us a little while to get them through each day. And five minute pickups are helping just be the thing that it's like if I can't do anything else, I can do five minutes.
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A
Right.
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B
Yeah. Those two things will change a home and keep a home out of disaster. Those, those two things done. And I, I, I was going to say consistently, but even done it all with the goal of eventually getting to consistency done.
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A
It all goes so far we Talk a lot on this podcast about making progress and only progress. Right? That's my goal when it comes to decluttering, but it's also my goal in everything, even food choices. Thrive Market is a great option for making it super, super easy and convenient to order great healthy snacks. It can be stressful reading through the teeny tiny print of the ingredient lists in the grocery store, trying to decipher what is actually in the foods that you're buying. Thrive Market has already screened over 1000 restricted ingredients for you, bringing you staple items from trusted brands. No guessing, no aisle squinting. We have some loved ones who have some very specific dietary needs, so it is so nice to know what is safe so that getting food for them isn't stressful. I loved making my first order with Thrive Market.
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I found several of the snacks that I really, really like that could be.
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Very hit or miss to find in my local grocery store. I was also really impressed at how reasonable the prices were. Join Thrive Market with my link thrive market.com slob for 30% off your first order plus a free $60 gift. That's thrive market.com slob so let's talk.
- [06:28]
B
About your, your housekeeper situation. So what is it that you don't feel like you're doing? So you're keeping dishes done, so they're not helping you catch up on dishes. The five minute pickups you're doing. So what is it like in that two days before they come?
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C
It's a lot of like, oh my gosh, we haven't tidied up. Like, so there's a whole lot of the night before. Um, we're doing like a random crazy tidy up. And every once in a while I will like, you know, they'll, they'll text me to confirm like the day before. And every once in a while I go ahead and just cancel. And I'm like, we have to do it next week because. And like, I think last, oh, last time, like the kids didn't pick up the upstairs and I was like, just don't clean the upstairs. Like, because I was like, there's no way that we have time to pick it up so that they can actually do their job without me making it take them longer. Because they are great. Like, if we leave stuff out, they will just make a neat pile somewhere for us. But it's a little, it's definitely chaotic before they come. And then, yeah, it's like we get maybe a week of like, oh, it's nice and tidy in here. And then like the next week while we're waiting for them again. It's like it's not nice and tidy in here.
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Yeah.
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Which all of that is normal to some degree.
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C
Right?
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Like that, that's, that's kind of the way it goes. But it sounds like the dishes and the five minute pickups are keeping the, the disaster status away. Yes, but you want to move beyond that.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Okay, so how much decluttering have you truly done? Because it sounds like the clutter threshold is potentially the issue, which for those people who are listening for the first time, your clutter threshold is the amount of stuff that you can easily keep under control. It does change with different stages of life. So if you've had, you know, you add a third child, well, then that may drive your clutter threshold lower, but you still got the same amount of stuff. So it's a matter of decluttering till you get to that point. Where do you feel like you are in regards to your clutter threshold?
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C
Yeah, we are, we are over it for sure. Because especially with the new baby, it's like now things are coming in a lot faster than I can get them out. And even the handful of times that I have put in place to sit down and like get stuff out, it's not ever been enough out yet. So.
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Yeah.
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Okay, so the things that they put in a neat little pile when they leave, what do you then do with that pile? Do you just kind of ignore the pile and go, everything else looks a lot better and so we're going to enjoy the everything else. Or, or, or do you deal with the pile?
- [09:28]
C
That's where that's the sticking point? Because I do. I tell myself every time I'm like, when they put the piles, then you need to deal with it. And it usually doesn't get dealt with for one reason or another, usually just stays there. And sometimes I think it's just because, like, yeah, it does. It looks so much better than I'm like, oh, everything is fine. Yeah, I don't mind the pile. Right. Like, I'm still. It's the clutter blindness is still, like, it just sticks so strong.
- [09:57]
B
Yeah. So when I think about that, I think, okay, the getting. The real issue of we need to have less stuff than we used to. And I know you know this, right? Like, I know this is not new to you, but it's the. I'm going to go even maybe a little more extreme than I would think that I need to go just to make it easier to put things away because there's less stuff that exists in My home. Just to make it easier that the pile. Even if things are out of place, even if we don't get where we want it to be, the pile will be smaller that they make because there is less stuff in the house. Would you say that the things in the piles stay in the piles for the two weeks or do they get used immediately?
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C
A lot of them stay. Some of them do get used, but. But most of them do stay.
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So they're not necessarily things that get used all the time. And that's the reason they were out. They were just kind of out at some point and then stayed out.
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C
And it didn't really have a home, so it just stayed in that spot until somebody else moved it. Yeah.
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So when you. Here, here's, here's the top thing I would do is, I mean, you're, you're kind of in survival mode. How young is your youngest?
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Three months.
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Okay.
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You're full on in survival mode right now, which is great. Right? Like, I mean, I always. People are like, oh, don't be in survival mode. I'm like, well, what's the alternative? I'm like, let's be thankful for surviving, but we want to make surviving as easy as possible. So knowing that a lot of that stuff just stays there and doesn't get used over the course of two weeks, like, so for me, I also have a somebody who cleans and she comes every two weeks. And it is incredibly helpful for my time passage awareness disorder that I know that she's coming every two weeks because in my mind that pile is pretty much brand new. But when all of a sudden it's the Wednesday before she's coming again, I have the realization that that pile has.
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Been there for 13 days.
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And so this realization of there are a lot of things there that do not get used consistently. So I'm going to grab your trash bag and go walk around to whatever pie. And here's the thing too is sometimes it can be a mentality of next time they come, this is what I'm going to do. Let's take that away. Not that you even said that. I'm just saying that's a natural thing for people like me to think a way for me to think. So instead of thinking, next time they come, this is what I'm going to do. Say I, I'm going to go right now, take a black trash bag and I'm going to walk to whatever is left of whatever piles there are from the last time that they came. Whether they came two days ago or they came 13 days ago or they came 27 days ago and you skipped the time in between. Like whatever it is, I'm going to go and I'm just going to walk to where those piles usually are in the rooms and, and I'm going to throw things away. And knowing how long it's been, like how long has it been since the last time they were there?
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C
Almost two weeks. Okay.
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A
Yeah.
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So knowing it's been two weeks is a, is a T pad, you know, fixer of your time passage awareness. Like it's been two weeks. So anything that's in these piles, even though the piles are a little morphed at this point, has been sitting here for two weeks and just, and not that we're going to go in and say if I haven't used it in this long, we don't do that. Right. But it is a mindset to go, go in and realize these things have been sitting here for two weeks and nobody has used it or needed it or anything. And so go in with the trash bag and just walk to the piles, each pile and throw away any trash. Even if there's not trash in a pile. Because, you know, but I know that a lot of times cleaners, if it's even maybe possibly not trash, they're not going to throw it away.
- [14:12]
C
Right? Yeah.
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B
You know, so. Because they can't, because that's, they just can't do that. So there are probably things in these piles that are trash. Especially when you're thinking I'm over my clutter threshold, I have a three month old, my life will just flat out be easier with less stuff. So I need to get rid of less stuff. The easiest way to get stuff out of my house is in the trash or recycling and not have to do a donate coordination at all, but just to be able to do the thing that I know is going to leave my house. So going around to the piles and not moving things around, but whatever you can see and access, do that. And you have a three month old, you may go to one pile, throw away one item and then the three month old starts crying. And that's all you could have done. But you've still done one little thing and that is one little bit of progress. And so then going to, around to the piles, when you have another moment or if you're able to keep going, walk around to the piles and see is there anything in here that I do already know what to do with this item. Do the easy stuff and reduce the pile if you can focus, if you have the time and the focus to focus in on one pile and get it all the way done.
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C
Great.
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B
But if that's not really working for you, just say, this is what I'm doing right now. I'm just going and walking around focusing on the piles from the cleaners and I'm doing the easy stuff. And then are there any obvious, you know, go through that and then like you said, it comes down to things that don't have a home. So the way you know how to give it a home. Right?
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C
Yeah.
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B
Which is.
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C
Yeah. And I, I do say I don't. I, I do struggle to get past like to do the question exactly the way it needs to be done of where would I look for it first? Instead of like. Because most of the time I'm like, where would I? And I was like, I don't, I don't know, I don't.
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B
Right.
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C
I think I usually skip to the. I probably wouldn't look for it. And so then I'm like, then I really get in a tizzy of like I'm answering them in the wrong order.
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Like, well, if, if, here's the thing. If, if doing that lets you let it go, let it go.
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C
Okay.
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Because that you're doing it right. As long as stuff is leaving the house or going to a home. If you're doing that and you're thinking, I don't know where I would look for it first, Would I look for it?
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No.
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Okay. But I can't get rid of it. Well, then that's why we have that question first. The reason I don't ask, would I know that I had it or would I ever occur to me I already had one first, is that that would mean like me going, but maybe I would. But maybe. Wait, what? You know, I've already proven to myself that I wouldn't go even go looking for it because I didn't have an answer to the first one. So. But whatever lets you let go of things is great. So let's talk about that question. Like, can you, Are there any piles in the room that you're in that you could grab something and we could talk through it?
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C
Yes. This is my husband's office. So it.
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We don't look something that you don't know where it goes.
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C
Yeah, this is. My mother in law gave us this and we never used it and she wanted to give it to her daughter who's having a baby next. So this one we just need to give back.
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B
Okay. So if your mother in law, does she come to your house, she probably.
- [17:23]
C
Won'T before this next baby is born. I think they're up visiting right now and we'll probably stay there.
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B
Okay. So is this something you're gonna have to mail?
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C
Possibly.
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B
Okay. If the situation came up of it's time to mail it, she's here, she needs it, where would you look for it first? Picture yourself in that situation. So we're not asking where it would be. So I don't know is not actually the answer to this question.
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A
Okay.
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C
Yeah.
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B
So it's if you needed this item, picture yourself, your mother in law being there and asking, hey, can I get that thing from you for, you know, the other grandbaby with not not needing to be confident that it's going to be there. Where's the first place where you would look?
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C
I've been looking for baby stuff on top of our safe lately. So that is.
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B
Yeah, so that's where you would look for it first. Baby stuff. And that's specifically baby stuff that's going to go to someone else.
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C
Just any baby stuff that I've needed I've been putting on top of the safe. So.
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B
Okay. Yeah, yeah. So. So then you would take it there now and then you would face the reality of that space and is there room for it there? Do you think there's room for it there? I know we're kind of stuck to.
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C
The zoom right here, but there I can make room. Yeah. If there, if there isn't, then I. I know I can make room.
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B
Okay. By getting rid of something else or rearranging.
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C
Rearranging and also getting rid of things. I think they're like, I've been using that space. It's been a come and go lately, so I know.
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B
Okay.
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C
There's. There's flow to it.
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B
Okay. What was the other item that you found?
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C
Picture. It's a USB stick of pictures.
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B
Okay.
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C
That's a good one. The kids got pictures done. Okay.
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B
And it's not easy. So you have no idea where it should go. So we're not going to worry about that. So what if you needed that USB stick, where would you look first? Like at no confidence. It's going to be there. You have no idea where it's going to be. It's your husband saying, hey, such and such is on sale and I want to get one of those pictures printed on a coffee mug. Where is that USB stick? And you're going, I have no idea. Look here.
- [19:51]
C
Yeah, that drawer over there.
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B
Okay. Yeah, go, go put it there now since, I mean, I know we're not on video. But is there room for it in the drawer?
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C
There's room for it because it's tiny.
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B
It's not.
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C
I don't know if it'll be easy to find next time, but it will.
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B
Be easy to find compared to. It's somewhere in the house, but I have no idea where because I didn't have a perfect place, and so I just let it sit there. And now who knows which pile it's at the bottom of.
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C
Right, Right. Because now it's like, I will go look in that place first, and so I can. It's okay. It'll be worth it to spend a little extra time looking. Yeah, yeah.
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B
I mean, it's where at this point in the process, we can't worry about perfection. Right. Like, it just needs to be in an actual real home. Right. Maybe I have visions of nooks and crannies and systems and, you know, little compartments. Wouldn't that be nice to have there? But I don't. So for now, I'm just sticking in the drawer because that drawer, that's. That's a real home.
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C
Yeah, that makes sense.
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B
Yeah. So. So that. That is what I would recommend is dealing with those piles, because those are the things that, you know, if. If you were to sit here and tell me, oh, okay, well, they come over, they make the pile, and every time I pick up the pile and I put it in a tub and I shove that tub, and that's. That's its own problem. Right. But that's not what we're dealing with here. But the piles kind of stay there.
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A
So.
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B
Okay, then that's visible clutter. That's stuff that does not have a real home. That stuff that isn't easily getting put away during the pickup and put away stuff. So you have enough going on. Just zero in on those piles as going through and really focusing on trash and obvious donations, because those are going to be your easiest ways to diminish those piles. And every time those piles are diminished, it's going to make this routine. That is a good thing, but keeps having this issue of the piles reappearing. Those piles will not be able to be as big because there will be less stuff.
- [22:15]
A
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- [24:19]
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A
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Okay, so a little about me.
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A
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- [26:21]
C
I tend to get overwhelmed at like declutter the visible spaces. Because it's like that's where the hardest stuff is, is in the visible spaces. So it's like just you, you said zone in on it and that stuck with me. It's like just, just do that like over and over and over. Just don't even worry about the other things until those piles start to actually stay disappeared.
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A
Right.
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C
Is that. Yeah.
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B
I mean, because you need something to focus on and those piles are visible.
- [26:53]
C
Yeah.
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B
So you know, you talked about the visible spaces and you'd put that in your notes ahead of this interview about those spaces continually getting recluttered.
- [27:06]
C
Yeah.
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B
Right. So you've already experienced the power of five minute pickups in general. What I would recommend on that is every time you see it and it drives you kind of that space again, because it is hard. Like visible spaces tend to get recluttered more quickly. But at the same time, that's not a reason to not continually declutter it. Because what I used to do is I'm like, well that, that, that's the whole reason I would incorrectly prioritize an invisible Space, you know, an obscure spot that nobody ever sees because maybe it'll stay decluttered. But it didn't actually give me any momentum in my home to have an invisible space improved. That wasn't actually improving our lives.
- [27:52]
A
Right.
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B
So I started working, prioritizing the visible spaces. So every time it drives you bonkers and you're able do a five minute pickup just on that. Like going back through it and noticing over time that the more often you do that, the more often you'll realize that it's trash and easy stuff is all it actually is. Like it's not back to being a decluttering project. It's just, you know what, I know some people call hot spots. You know, like this is a spot where things end up, things get dumped. But not dealing with it is what turns it. When it's just trash and easy stuff is what turns it into a decluttering project again.
- [28:40]
C
Yeah.
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B
So you know, going through, going through that stage of saying I'm gonna grab a grocery sack or whatever I have that I can just throw away trash. And especially in your current stage with a three month old, giving yourself permission to choose what you're gonna focus on and then really going hard on, if.
- [29:07]
A
It'S even maybe trash, then that means.
- [29:11]
B
I can do the very easiest thing to get it out of here and never have to see it or move it or touch it or anything.
- [29:16]
C
Yeah. And what I don't want to do is just like angry throw stuff away. Where it's like, this is the fifth time I've tripped over this toy car. It's going in the trash. Like I don't, especially when it's like my kids stuff. I don't like doing that.
- [29:33]
B
Right.
- [29:34]
C
But yes, I can like doing the visible spaces over and over again. Just focusing on doing it over and over again I think will be less. I won't trip over.
- [29:45]
B
Right. Think of it as a five minute pickup.
- [29:47]
C
Yeah.
- [29:48]
B
And. And let the reaction to oh my goodness, this train is out here. Again, we need to do a five minute pickup.
- [29:55]
C
Yeah.
- [29:56]
B
Again, we already did one. Well, there's stuff in the middle of the floor that I was going to trip on. So we're going to do another five minute pickup. We're going to do, you know, you can do many five minute pickups.
- [30:06]
C
Yeah.
- [30:07]
B
And there's just something about it that works really well for me and children to be able to be willing to do it when I know it's a five minute pickup as opposed to get this room cleaned up.
- [30:21]
C
Yeah.
- [30:21]
B
Especially if we're still at the point where not everything has a home and all that like a five minute pickup is so incredibly powerful. Okay, what were some other things you want to talk about?
- [30:32]
C
The kids toys. Like the thought of tackling that with them is just like we have to do it. It's getting bananas and I don't like it and they don't like it. But also it's like the thought of actually trying to get them to come with me and get rid of stuff I don't really like. I'm like again, I know the. Like you said in that. Permission to learn. I've learned the process. I know what to do. But it actually doing it like I don't, like, I don't think it'll work. Do we consolidate first? Do we use the container concept first? Things are all, especially the toys that have a million pieces. My kids like to take the million pieces and turn them into other games. And so they're just all over the house and so trying to like, I can't, like if we have a puzzle, I can't give away the puzzle because I. All of the pieces are everywhere. But where do I put this puzzle that we don't want anymore until we find all of the pieces or do we just throw it away? But it's a perfectly good puzzle, you know.
- [31:33]
B
So the first thing I would say because it sounds like you're very overwhelmed with the kids spaces, is to start with the trash. And because the container concept is going to come, the consolidating is going to come, all of that's going to happen. But the thought of those things is extra overwhelming to you because you're also looking at a space that still has trash in it.
- [32:00]
C
Yeah.
- [32:01]
B
And so the, the volume that you are looking at and assessing and that you're trying to play out how to make it actually happen. And I know the process, but I, I'm scared and I don't know if it's actually going to work. Can that possibly work on this? The process starts with the trash.
- [32:20]
A
Yeah.
- [32:21]
B
So start with the trash. With the kids if possible. You know them, you know what they respond well to. My kids loved it when I worked on it without them. And then they came home and it was great. But different kids are different. So. But, but it's always helpful to just be like, hey, we're gonna go in and we're gonna just throw away trash. That's all we're doing today. I'm not even asking you to make decisions about these toys because you know, we're not gonna analyze how many times I've tripped over this toy. That's not today's problem, you know.
- [32:54]
C
Right.
- [32:55]
B
This is. We're just gonna throw away trash. And that's maybe all we do today and maybe tomorrow that's all we do again. But over and over and over, in my own experience and from so many experience of the other kindred spirits and the people who send me emails, like when you go into your kid's room to do that, it's always shocking how much trash there is.
- [33:20]
A
Yeah.
- [33:21]
C
Especially with my crafty six year old.
- [33:23]
B
Right, right. And remember, it's their definition of trash to start. You know, that doesn't mean I can't say, hey, this, you know, this is a food wrapper that shouldn't have been in here or whatever. And so, you know, I'm, I'm saying this one's right. Of course I can say that. But like, as far as, oh no, I was going to use those cut up triangles of things that look like little bits and pieces to you. They look like trash to you. Okay, then we'll move on to the next thing. But like just to build that trust and to build that momentum of we're going to throw things away because it can be so shocking how much trash there was and how much of an impact and take those pictures, take the before picture and then let's just throw away trash for five minutes or let's throw away trash for, until we don't see any more trash and then take another picture and show them. Look at the impact that we made just throwing away trash. And I think that takes some of that pressure off of this. Just needing to know how it's all going to play out and what we're going to do and how we're going to deal with the things that I know we're going to have to deal with because I know there's some toys in there that are really important to my mother in law, but my kids don't ever play with. And then blah, blah, blah, and we're going to get into all that and you know, we're not going to even think about that stuff right now. But once the trash is gone and it looks visually better and you've already felt some success, then looking at this space is going to look completely different to you. You know, it's going to be like, okay, all right. But even still, you're still not going to go on straight to the container concept. You're going to go to the easy stuff. Is there anything in here that we already know where it goes. Do we. Do we have a place for, you know, their shoes? Okay, well, let's get the shoes and let's put those in the shoe place and let's. Okay, let's do the. I think. What. What do we already know what to do? Are there, you know, things that they found in the garage that they somehow decided to make this part of their creative play or whatever, and. And then those things ended up in here. Let's go ahead and get those things out. And then anything that's an obvious donation, which, as a mom, it can feel like they will never be ready to actually just get rid of things, but you never know. And so you try it. Also, with the momentum that they've gained from steps one and two, they may be going, well, this is kind of.
- [35:43]
A
This is.
- [35:43]
B
I like my room a lot better. Oh, yeah, no, I can get rid of that. I can get rid of that. You know, they're ready for that.
- [35:48]
C
And then.
- [35:48]
B
Then going into the. If I needed this item, where would I look for it first and make it. The slow process of actually taking it there now. The actual taking of it there now is going to speed up. Right. Like in the beginning, especially with kids, it can feel like, oh, this takes forever to do this. Takes forever to. Where would you look for this first? I would look for this first on, you know, that thing of, okay, but let's walk over there. Well, there's no room for it here. What are you willing to get rid of all that stuff that you do? It is harder and takes more time at the beginning, but then over time, when they realize, oh, oh, she's. I'm not going to be able to just take extra long until she gives up.
- [36:32]
C
Yeah.
- [36:33]
B
Because that's. That's a very normal child tactic.
- [36:36]
A
Right.
- [36:36]
B
Is that they are like, if I just kind of drag my feet a little bit, mom will get over this idea of decluttering and I can get back to not having to worry about this.
- [36:44]
A
Right.
- [36:45]
B
I mean, that's just human nature. And so. So the going ahead and taking the time and the ridiculous. What it feels like wasting of time to take it there now and get rid of something to make the space. Every time you do that, then they're like, oh, she really is going to do this. And then it starts to speed things up.
- [37:03]
C
Yeah.
- [37:04]
A
Down the line.
- [37:06]
B
And I mean, I can say all this. It's still not a fun process. It's still not. I mean, I was going to say it's still not enjoyable. It is. It's one of those things, like, with your kids that you go through this and they are truly learning. Like, you were. We were talking before we got on, and you just mentioned it, that you were just listening to the Permission to Learn podcast that came out in November of 2025. I don't know when this is going to come out, so who knows? But that came out in November 2025, and you were listening to that and thinking about that whole, like, okay, permission to learn. I know the process, but I've got to actually put it into place to really, truly learn it.
- [37:51]
C
Yeah.
- [37:52]
B
And doing this with your kids is them really learning this process.
- [37:59]
C
Yeah. And they have gotten really pretty good at doing the quick pick stuff up with us at, like. And my daughter especially loves, like, oh, are we cleaning up because the house cleaners are coming? Like, yeah, she's like. She loves to know that, like, when she comes home from school tomorrow, everything will be perfect. So then she really. She's really gotten good at it. So we do a. We do a great job of just pick stuff up and we have, like, big shelves for the toys. Just pick stuff up and put it on the shelf. It doesn't matter where it goes. And we have gotten good at the trash. And so that's super helpful to just be like, you know what? Let's just take some days to just do the trash. I don't think I'd let myself think of just doing one step and being okay with one step because it is so kind of chaotic. So, yeah, we'll do one step for now and just do that over and over again for a few days.
- [38:58]
B
Yeah. And if they get through that one step, okay, well, let's move to the next step then. But if all that mindset shift into knowing that if all I do is throw away trash, it is worth my time, because trash going in the trash can or the recycling bin is done, Completely done. And it's that procrastic clutter that's like, oh, that's not worth my time. Because it's not going to be noble enough or finished enough or whatever. And in the meantime, it sits there and it sitting there is the thing that's overwhelming you.
- [39:40]
C
Yeah, okay. Yeah, it is.
- [39:44]
B
Which you have a lot going on. You have enough going on to. Yeah.
- [39:52]
D
In a world where January is supposed to be boring, one staple of the holidays refuses to end the great deals at Verizon. The joy just keeps on coming, coming. Right now, you can save on four new phones and four lines. Critics agree it's the deal that Keeps on giving. Come into Verizon and save on four new phones and four lines on unlimited. Welcome. Additional terms applied seeverizon.com for details.
- [40:21]
A
Hey, it's Raj and Noah.
- [40:23]
E
And we're back with a new season of Am I Doing It Wrong? The show that explores the all too human anxieties we have about trying to get our lives right.
- [40:30]
F
Because we're still doing a lot of stuff wrong.
- [40:32]
E
But who isn't? That's why each week we're talking about the topics that we could all use a little helping hit with. Whether it's making new friends as an adult, managing our emotions, or even dreaming.
- [40:41]
F
We'Ll be talking to experts in their fields who are definitely doing things right, so the rest of us can be a bit wiser and a lot better equipped to handle whatever life throws at us.
- [40:50]
E
Subscribe now and listen to new episodes of Am I Doing It Wrong? Dropping every Thursday starting January 1st, wherever you get your podcasts.
- [40:57]
F
And for the first time ever, we're going to have full video episodes on YouTube. Because as long as there are things to get wrong, I we're going to be right here to help you do them better.
- [41:05]
C
Love you.
- [41:10]
B
So what's something else you want to talk about?
- [41:14]
C
We talked about the visible spaces.
- [41:16]
A
Wait, wait, wait.
- [41:16]
B
Let's go back to the puzzle pieces.
- [41:18]
C
Oh, yeah, please.
- [41:20]
B
Yeah, it's a very normal hang up. Here's what I would say. Do you have a donate spot in your house? No.
- [41:30]
C
Every time I try to make one, then I forget that it's there. And so then later I trip over something that I'm like, oh, we were supposed to donate that.
- [41:38]
B
Okay, so where would you look if you realize that. Do you have donation pickups in your neighborhood?
- [41:50]
C
Comes occasionally. Not. Not like regular. And we have places we can easily donate to it.
- [41:57]
B
Okay.
- [41:58]
C
It's just an area.
- [41:59]
B
Yeah, you.
- [42:00]
A
If.
- [42:01]
B
Let's. Who was it you said am something.
- [42:03]
C
Am vets come. Sometimes I think they're coming next.
- [42:06]
B
If you get a card or a text or something from AmVets, where would you look first for a partially filled donate box?
- [42:16]
C
The garage.
- [42:17]
B
Okay. Is there a certain spot in the garage?
- [42:19]
C
No.
- [42:20]
A
Okay. I.
- [42:22]
B
So ours is just like right there outside my door from the house into the garage because I want to be able to open the door, throw something in that box and. And go. So establishing that as. And I know it's hard because we like to put things. But you already said the garage, so say, okay, this is going to be the spot. This is the donate box. Depending on the size of the spot, it could be that you have one ongoing donate box and then in that same space, a smaller box for pieces so that as you find something, you go throw it in that box so that it's ready to donate. And then over time, when that box is full and you realize, okay, this is too much, like, I don't have it in my life right now with a three month old or whatever, you might realize, oh, several things in here now have all their pieces and those can go into the big donate box. But this donate box, you know, the. These items here that I found pieces for this thing. And it's now been six months and I still haven't found all the pieces. It's time for it to go. Like letting that be the container. Does that make sense?
- [43:39]
C
Yes, it does make sense.
- [43:41]
B
So that the. Where would I look for it first? Sticking it, going ahead and sticking in the donate box. What I do personally, okay. That I came to this point with my kids when my kids were little and we were dealing with exactly this was I just went ahead and put things in the donate box. If I found. Now a puzzle is a little bit different because you really can't do the puzzle without every single piece. But like I remember some spaceship that had these little pieces on it that were supposed. And I was like, okay, right now this one has one on here and I pretty sure it's supposed to have 12. Well, I'm just going to go ahead and stick it in the donate box. And then as I found those little pieces, I stuck them in the same donate box because I always had that donate box going on and then I just let it go. The puzzles, the issue is, you know, if you can have a place where you go ahead and you stick it where it is ready to go in the donate box and then other pieces are going to go in there. But also realizing it is not worth being over my clutter threshold to do this perfectly. I do not like having to throw away a perfectly good puzzle, except that it's not a perfectly good puzzle because it doesn't have all of its pieces.
- [44:54]
C
Right.
- [44:55]
B
And getting it out of the house is going to get you under your clutter threshold. And you being under your clutter threshold is going to eliminate the frustration of there being pieces everywhere, all over the house.
- [45:12]
C
Yes.
- [45:14]
B
So it's that I wish I could never throw away what would be a perfectly good puzzle.
- [45:23]
C
Yes.
- [45:23]
B
And yet my reality is that's what I need to do because I can't find all the pieces and I need These things out of my house because them being out of the house doesn't weigh on. They don't weigh on your mind anymore. They don't have to be dealt with. They aren't able to shift from one place to another.
- [45:43]
C
Yes. And I think one thing that's hard is, like, we've done that before where it's like, yes, we've, like, okay, we have this toy with 7,000 pieces. I know all 7,000 are in the house, but we only have 10. It's going to go away. And then over time, I find the other 6,000 pieces, and then I'm like, but we don't have this toy anymore, so now I just have to throw them away. And it just. It's hard to do that later on because it's like. Like, we could have given somebody this instead of throwing it away because we had all the pieces.
- [46:15]
B
But the reason that you couldn't find the 7,000 pieces was that your house was over your clutter threshold.
- [46:24]
C
Yeah. And I think, too, it's just. It's like, it. So, yeah, finding a little piece, the. You know, finding like five pieces one day, it's like. It's just a reminder of, like, wow, this is really out of hand. And so it's just. It's frustrating to find those because it's.
- [46:37]
B
Like, then throwing it away is so frustrating, and it feels. It's painful. But also, every time that pain happens, then you look differently at the next toy that has 7,000 pieces.
- [46:52]
C
Billy, we don't buy them ourselves.
- [46:57]
B
Oh, yeah.
- [46:58]
C
No, it's. It's other people, so. And that's what my older two have. Fall birthdays. So it's like, it's Halloween and birthday and Thanksgiving and birthday and Christmas. And so it's like, it's just a slew of things coming into our house that we don't really ask for for a couple of months in a row.
- [47:22]
B
Which is exactly when we're talking right now, which means it's all weighing on you even more.
- [47:28]
C
Yeah.
- [47:28]
B
So it's that this is the time where it's a little bit crazy. So I'm going to be a little bit crazier in my throwing out of things. Like, I'm just gonna. I'm just gonna do it because it has to be done.
- [47:41]
C
Yeah.
- [47:42]
B
Okay. So what else did you want to talk about? Have I solved all your problems?
- [47:46]
C
We're getting close. We're getting real close. I put laundry day on here. And the crazy thing is, so I just got to post in the Kindred spirits A picture of our dryer all taken apart. Because I was like, okay, I'm gonna talk to Dana soon. I'm like, we were way crazy behind on laundry. I was like, we're going to. It was on Friday. I was like, I'm gonna do laundry day. Like, I'm gonna do laundry day today, and it's okay if it takes all weekend. That's why I'm starting on Friday. And. And I knew that the dryer hadn't been, like, up to par, but I was like, it's. We, you know, like, vacuumed out the lint or whatever. I was like, it'll be fine. We'll. It'll work. Well, I opened the dryer from, like, the load that we'd already been working on before, and it was still wet. So I, like, run the dryer again. It wasn't getting hot. It was just cold. So we knew it was broken. So right now I was like, well, I can't really ask all my questions about laundry day because right now, things are hanging on clotheslines. But I'm getting better at folding right out of the dryer. It is hard. Like, it got really, really hard while I was pregnant because just standing in the laundry room was kind of impossible. So I'm getting better at folding right out of the dryer. And now I'm. It honestly being doing laundry day. Like, we've been working through it, like, since Friday. I'm like, I can only do one. Look, I don't have, I guess the. The myth of, like, I can do two at once because I can have one in the washer and one in the dryer. I can only do one at a time, basically, is what I'm finding with the clothesline, because it's like, I have to take it off the clothesline, and I fill up my basket with the clothesline stuff. I can't take the stuff out of the washer and put it in the basket to take it to the clothesline until I get the stuff. The dry stuff out of the basket. So that has been nice. I don't know. Maybe we should do that. Like, maybe we should just stick to clothesline version of laundry day.
- [49:42]
B
I mean, I know this sounds a little bit. But I hear what you're saying. You're like, oh, I know. That is the kind of things that I hear from people way more than I ever would have thought, which is things like, my dishwasher broke, and so I was forced into the getting things completely done to do. And then I realized, oh, they're actually Getting done now as opposed to before when it. You know, and they're like, I think I'm not.
- [50:11]
A
Do the.
- [50:11]
B
You know, it's. It's all about the routine, for sure.
- [50:14]
A
Go.
- [50:14]
B
Yeah, I'm sorry.
- [50:15]
C
No, that's all. Because it's like. It's just totally. I was. You know, I didn't really have a consistent laundry routine. It was kind of like, we did laundry when the piles got too full. Like, the. The kids have a laundry basket in the laundry room that they put all their clothes in. And it's like, once it's full, which. It's a big basket. I should have gotten smaller one. Then it's like, okay, now we do the laundry. But it. I just got to the. I was. We were just shoving it, you know, and so that's. That's the hard thing of, like, I. Every time I think, like, oh, maybe I'll do Monday, or maybe I'll do, like, I can't get a day to stick. So I. I'm in the mindset right now of, like, probably just weekend. Like, we may. We just decide, like, weekend is easier to keep in my brain. And. And we're still doing pea. Laundry for my toddler especially. So it's like, I have a separate bucket for that, and I try to get through that every two days, but it's never enough for the. A whole washer load. So that, like, I'm usually doing laundry every two days just to keep that up. And so it's like, today I do the darks and to. And two days later, I do the lights.
- [51:28]
B
And what I would say is, because you did that on Friday, do it again on Friday.
- [51:37]
C
Yeah.
- [51:38]
B
Say. Say, like, okay, I want to do this just to see what one week's worth of laundry is. Like, that is my thing. I'm learning this week. I'm learning what one week's worth of laundry is.
- [51:50]
C
Yeah.
- [51:51]
A
Yeah.
- [51:51]
C
Okay. Okay. And that is my intention. So we'll see. Like, especially. Especially. I had to take clothes off the doorway in the office here to come in to come talk to you.
- [52:03]
B
Oh, we had the same thing.
- [52:06]
A
And it's. We went.
- [52:08]
B
I don't know. We went a while. It was in our last house without our dryer, and stuff was hanging everywhere. Okay, so tell me, what do you love about being a kindred spirit?
- [52:22]
C
I like that when you. When you post a silly picture of your dryer in pieces, people are like, somebody sent me a gif of you. Go, girl. And I was like, it's like, yes. Like, that's Everybody understands what it's like to have a broken washing machine or a dryer. And they're.
- [52:38]
B
The struggle.
- [52:39]
C
Yes.
- [52:40]
B
The struggle of, oh, no, I was finally getting caught up and I was doing this and then this happens and blah, blah, blah. You know, it's just a community of people who are like, oh, we get, we get how frustrating that is.
- [52:51]
C
Yes, yeah, yes. And. And I haven't gotten to do the, the work along sessions in a long time, but those are always nice. I usually end up just doing my dishes or meal prepping one or the other. But it, it is so nice to just like, listen to people talk while you get stuff done. So. Yes.
- [53:10]
B
Yeah, those. We had a retreat, you know, beckoning October last month when we're talking, and it was so interesting how there were like three people there who passionately love the work alongs and then everybody else is like, wait, what are you talking about? You know, and so I'm like, you know, that's. It's, it's been really like, people who are using them love the work along sessions that you have every week. So. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for doing this. I really appreciate it. And enjoy that baby. Like, thanks.
- [53:45]
C
She's great. She's really great.
- [53:49]
A
All right. Isn't she the best?
- [53:51]
B
I.
- [53:53]
A
I do think fondly of the days when I had newborns, but I also, I don't miss them because I enjoyed this period so much too. I just. That was the best piece of advice I was ever given as a young.
- [54:10]
B
Mom, or even probably before I had.
- [54:12]
A
My first kid, was to not wish any time away. So I try to take that to heart and enjoy each stage for what it is. But yes, these are sweet days and I was so thankful for this conversation that we were able to have. All right. Oh, if you want to know more about being a kindred spirit, we talked about just such a fun group that it is.
- [54:32]
B
If you kind of want to up.
- [54:34]
A
Your game and have a community of people who speak this language the way that I do about decluttering using these terminology ologies, all of that, go to patreon.com aslob. Comes clean and you can find out more about joining us. Oh, by the way, there is a level at which you can get ad free podcasts. So just saying.
- [54:57]
B
All right, I will talk to you all later. Bye.