499: Adjusting to Smaller Space & Larger Struggles

Summary

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Podcast Summary: "Adjusting to Smaller Space & Larger Struggles"

A Slob Comes Clean Podcast #499
Host: Dana K. White
Guest: "B" (Patreon community member)

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Episode Overview

Theme & Purpose:
In this heartfelt and reality-based episode, Dana K. White has an honest conversation with a Patreon community member who shares her experiences downsizing her living space due to significant life changes—health struggles, caregiving for her husband, and the emotional journey of decluttering. The discussion focuses on letting go of the all-or-nothing mindset, the realities of living with disability, the importance of functional over minimalist spaces, and celebrating small wins in decluttering and organizing.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Guest Background & Current Situation

• At age 68, "B" has lost her home and undergone life-changing spinal surgery, with her husband in poor health and needing full-time care due to memory loss.
  "[We] find ourselves…in a tiny elderly apartment, like income-based, lots of dignity I feel I’ve lost. And so the identity, clutter and all of that is a real thing." (02:40, B)

• The move has meant losing a beloved community and adapting to a much smaller, restrictive living space, leading to questions of identity and overwhelm.

2. The Challenge of Letting Go & All-Or-Nothing Thinking

• "B" struggles with attaching value to possessions after loss and trauma, experiencing the "all or nothing" trap:

  "I’m such an all or nothing person, which is part of my problem… and I’m kind of paralyzed." (05:51, B)

• Dana reframes this thoroughly:

  "Anything is better than nothing. That you have started by doing the dishes…oh, it’s actually worth it to do this teeny, tiny thing." (06:08, 07:06, A)

3. Functionalism Over Minimalism

• Dana guides "B" to shift from focusing on being “a minimalist” to being a “functionalist”:

  "Instead of thinking of it as minimalism as being the goal...think of it as functionalism. Yes, I want to be a functionalist. That is my goal." (29:12, A)

• The discussion highlights making the home work for current needs rather than adhering to an aesthetic or unrealistic standard.

4. The Power of Small Successes & Practical Tips

• Celebrating Wins: Doing the dishes regularly became a symbol of progress:

  "The fact that you did the dishes is a big deal. I mean, you’ve been through a lot.” (05:02, A) "As you do that, it becomes almost more of an issue…if you find yourself stuck… the ideal would be to go, okay, I’m going to pull out the trash." (16:48, A)

• Embracing Reality: Accepting physical limitations and current space as legitimate constraints.

• Container Concept: Let the size of the home and storage define what stays:

  “The container is the ultimate reality acceptance. And it totally changes all the angst feelings…” (52:56, A)

• Incremental Steps: Open a bin and just LOOK; throwing out even one thing counts as progress.

5. Navigating Identity, Nostalgia, and Guilt

• Identity Clutter: Letting go of things from a previous life (entertaining, crafting):

  "You know from experience how much space is needed for that...let go of this thing...so that I have the space to do the thing that will make me me right now." (29:47, A)

• Dealing with Loss: Acknowledging emotional weight, but also learning that small steps lead to real change.

• Guilt About Letting Go: Avoiding shame when donating or discarding precious items:

  "The shame and the guilt, the money spent...I can't get that back. But I've been so hanging on to the identity..." (35:27, B)

6. Community, Shame, and Support

• Guest praises the value of Dana’s Patreon and community, especially “work alongs” (virtual body-doubling):

  "It's been a lifeline...invaluable to know that other people struggle. I guess I felt so unique...I tend to focus on what isn't working..." (59:48, B) "It is hard. And that sticking with it, that not being all or nothing. The community and my church family, that would be there for me..." (47:15, B)

• Dana repeatedly emphasizes shame-free progress:

  "No shame, no shame." (44:31, A)

7. Practical Decluttering Strategies in a Smaller, Functional Space

• Accepting current capabilities—no step-stools, keep frequently used things accessible.

• Use physical space as the ultimate decider of “how much” can stay:

  "The shelf is the container to determine…you don’t have anything that’s sitting on the floor…open for as much movement as possible to be easy." (53:21, A)

• Focus on what current life allows, not what was possible in the past:

  "What could I do in this space, this situation, that lets me be me, but in a version that actually works for my current situation?" (32:26, A)

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• "Facing reality… I have to face my reality. I'm really looking for a kick in the pants, maybe, and guidance and at the same time, compassion..." (04:02, B)
• "[The] container concept helps with that—this is my current situation, I don't have room for this identity...If I'm also trying to hold on to the stuff..." (32:26, A)
• "If I do this, just like doing the dishes, this small thing of opening this bin and looking for trash is going to make an impact." (55:55, A)
• "I'm not a minimalist. I don't want to be a minimalist...but I'm not. You resonate with me. I'm not a minimalist." (25:32, B)
• "Pick the best things. You know, you can’t keep all the paint brushes and all the glue and all the paint." (58:41, B)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:40 – Guest shares her personal backstory and current situation.
• 05:51 – Describing the “all or nothing” mindset and feeling paralyzed.
• 13:12 – On paying for a storage unit and feeling pressure to get rid of it all.
• 16:33 – The power and humor in "bin" successes (“Been successful. B I n. Been successful.”).
• 20:49 – Creating homes for items in a new, smaller living space.
• 29:12 – Dana introduces the concept of functionalism versus minimalism.
• 32:26 – Prioritizing activities and creative pursuits that fit current life.
• 39:38 – Navigating emotional attachment to items such as dishes and heirlooms.
• 44:31 – The trap of making piles and the futility in traditional decluttering systems for some people.
• 47:15 – Reminding oneself of grace, the importance of community support.
• 52:56 – The “container” as a tool for physical and emotional boundaries.
• 55:55 – Letting action lead to clarity rather than waiting for perfect understanding.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

For Listeners: This episode is an honest, compassionate exploration of what it’s really like to declutter and adapt to a vastly different, downsized life while dealing with loss, disability, and caregiving. Dana and her guest offer practical, manageable strategies—celebrating small wins, respecting functional needs, and finding emotional support in community. The message is clear: Progress is possible, even (and especially) in the smallest of steps.

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Recommended for:

• Those facing clutter due to life transitions, trauma, illness, or downsizing
• Listeners who need practical—not Pinterest-perfect—strategies
• Anyone seeking grace, encouragement, and “real people” solutions in organizing

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“I want to be a functionalist. That is my goal.” — Dana K. White (29:12)

“Every teeny, tiny bit… it’s been a lifeline.” — B (59:47)

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to a Slob Chems Clean the Podcast. I am Dani K. White. I share my personal deslobification process as I figure out ways to keep my own home under control. I share the truth about cleaning and organizing strategies that actually work in real life for real people, people who don't love cleaning and organizing. Thank you for joining me today. This is podcast number 499. So send in your questions if you have questions for my husband because he will be joining me on next week's podcast. I think if I can remember to get that recorded anyway, you know, when I can't just do it on my time and I'm like, oh, that's right, I gotta do this when he's available. Sometimes adds a layer of complication. So send those questions in. Don't forget too that Winnie the Walrus, Winnie's pile of pillows is out there in the world. It's been really fun to. You know, the thing about a children's book is that you can read it in like 15 or 20 minutes. And so it's been fun to see the reviews come in so quickly. So we've got, I think when I'm recording this, we have like 17, five star reviews and I'm so thankful for that. I've even heard from one of the reviews and I don't know if it's the same person, but somebody had also emailed me and said, uh, I read this with my kids and then they immediately were like, hey, let's do this in my room too. Uh, let's get rid of some toys. And so that's like a huge win. That's basically the goal. So anyway, look up Winnie's pile of pillows. You can always just look up Dana K. White wherever you like to buy books and find that. But in this podcast, I'm going to call it adjusting to smaller space and bigger struggles. So I'm talking with one of my Patreon members here and she's been through a lot and she's a loving caregiver, but that's a lot of stress. And they've moved into a much smaller space than what they had before. So we're talking a lot about identity, clutter and, you know, functionalism in her. Her real situation that she's actually in right now and how small successes are the answer. They're the way to focus on the small things to be done, is how you end up getting where you want to be. So I hope you enjoy this. Here is our conversation. Thank you so much for being willing to come onto the podcast. I appreciate your time and your willingness to share. Tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell me, what is your current unique life situation?

[B]

Well, we lost our home. I'm 68 years old. I had some surgery that threw me for a loop. And then my husband really tanked, you know, heart cancer, lots of stuff. And so that was in 2017. And it's been a whirlwind, you know, but now we find ourselves back in the Northeast. We rented from my son who was in the army for a while and his marriage broke up and we had to leave that. So I had a community there that took me a lot of courage to build, and I had one up here. So we're back up here. Coming on two years in a tiny elderly apartment, like income based, lots of dignity. I feel I've lost. And so the identity, clutter and all of that is a real thing. And my disabilities from chronic pain and then being my husband's 100% caregiver, like everything because his memory is gone. It's short term. It's a result of all the medical stuff. And so I'm, as you can imagine, overwhelmed.

[A]

Absolutely. You are. Yes.

[B]

And I need courage and just I know the five steps I love. Jesus doesn't care about your messy house. I had a friend panic when she read that title. She wants to encourage me. She's like, it was really great. I find that I'm just really having a hard time. Nothing sticks. Everything is precious because we've lost so much. I really can't do the things I used to do, and I have to face my reality. So I. I'm really looking for a kick in the pants, maybe, and guidance and at the same time, compassion, which is what I love about Patreon and the community. When I get to catch the. Especially those one hour better that I find that so helpful. Because even whatever I can do, it's the doing. I mean, I had to do the dishes today. I just had to, because Dana told me to, you know.

[A]

Okay, well, I, I shared with you beforehand that my notes got mixed up and so I didn't have any idea what you're about to say. So I just want to tell you that I am sorry that you've been through all that. That is, that is a lot. And the fact that you're here, the fact that you did the dishes is a big deal. I mean, you've been through a lot.

[B]

And so I was doing the dishes before and Dana got me to do the dishes on a regular basis. And so, yeah, that is a progress that maybe another person couldn't fathom. But.

[A]

Well, so let's talk about that because let's talk about what is working for you. Like, what is the impact that you have seen seen from doing the dishes?

[B]

That anything is better than nothing. That I'm such an all or nothing person, which is part of my problem. I just take it to the nth degree with either despair or, you know, and I'm kind of. I'm paralyzed.

[A]

I think it's powerful that you said that doing the dishes has shown you anything is better than nothing. Has that been able to carry out to anything else?

[B]

I feel like it's starting to. I feel like it's been a journey of, yeah, this really has to change. And yeah, I really am desperate. Well, I just listened to a podcast that was suggested to me. It was really good. I wrote it down. I can't think of it. But Jennifer, I think, oh, 429. Fighting the temptation to overthink. Raise my hand. That's me. And a slow coming to terms with it has to happen. I'm living with a time crunch. I don't know how long my husband has or I don't want this time in my life to get wasted, you know, so able to live and enjoy it.

[A]

Exactly. The dishes have gotten. You have. You have already started. I guess that's my point. It's like, you know, when we first started talking, you were saying, I'm going to have to. I'm going to have to. I think you acknowledging that you have started by doing the dishes and by your mindset about the all or nothing starting to change, not just from reading about it, but from seeing, oh, it's actually worth it to do this teeny, tiny thing. So tell me something else that is working well for you at this point.

[B]

Facing reality. And I have a hard time with my body not being. I had spinal surgery that went very bad. So that's how I got disabled, which then my husband's on a whole other level. So I don't have the physical ability to donate and do all this stuff because that's my, you know, fantasy self. At least I did find a neighbor here that I said I had a lot of craft supplies and doing those necessary things without feeling like I'm giving up on life. I have put things in the car that I really like and I keep thinking of great things to do with them and I should go get them back and make them and you know, but I feel like it is really needs to be a hard, fast Life will go on. I can find something I want to do and go re buy supplies if I have to. Like, I'm. I'm trying to remind myself of all those things. I get a lot of strength from hearing other people. I think it's unique that the take it there now. There's no there there because I haven't been here before because it's not my home and I had lots of storage and I actually could. Even though I'm naturally messy and I leave cabinet doors open and drawers and things, I could really whip it together and I was a great entertainer and.

[A]

Okay, so here I'm going to say something. When you were telling me earlier that you are all or nothing, I. One of the things I meant to say was I'll bet you were all about some pretty awesome things when you were able to. And what you just said about I was a great entertainer. I could absolutely do that. So a lot of what you're dealing with is the fact that life has changed drastically. Significantly.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And. But. But I love that you just said you are facing reality little by little. So have you been able to get some of those things out of the house?

[B]

And just. I think it's really. I think even making this appointment with you, which took great deal of courage, kind of kicked my butt in a way that, that okay, you are serious and. And you do need to get these things done. And there was a phrase that the ticking clock. Now other people have ticking clocks for other reasons, but that just stuck out at me. I. I feel like there is a ticking clock and I'm either gonna get better or not. And I have thrown out some things. I did the paper. The overwhelm is real. And things like paperwork. Oh, no, I'm creative. I'm a creative. So things like that are like. But I have taken steps. I have thrown trash. I have tiny, tiny. But you know, finding one box and throwing out some things and learning that some. That I can throw out a lot more. I think I need to believe that the woman who threw out six inches of photographs, you know, that was funny. It's like, oh, yeah, you can actually get rid of photographs and books and craft supplies and, and, and you know, my. My fantasy self, the clothes that I don't fit in anymore. I've lost £100 twice in my life and I'm back to square one. And so I can let that just. I'm. I'm an Eeyore Eoret.

[A]

Well, I think, I think my point is you have some positives. You have done some things, you have gotten some things out. You have found a neighbor who could have some craft stuff. You have started doing the dishes. And I think shifting the mindset onto that is something success. Of course, there's so much more to do. But counting that those things that you've done already as success, that now puts you in a position to continue making success is more powerful than focusing on the distant point where you want to be. That feels so completely unattainable.

[B]

Yeah. That's the wo is me e part of me.

[A]

Right. And so what I want you to do is really zero in on. It is a big deal that you've been doing the dishes. It is a big deal that you've gotten some things out. Especially considering the incredibly legitimate challenges that you have been facing.

[C]

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[A]

So let's talk about some of your situations that you wanted to discuss.

[B]

Facing the truth that most of the stuff. And I am paying $132 a month unlimited income for a storage unit.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But some of my son's stuff is in there. It's got to stop. Finding the courage and permission to simply throw it all away. And I'm insecure about is that what I have to do? Because I am so all or nothing. I feel like I need a lot of guidance as to, you know, that

[A]

is not what you have to do. Okay, I. I will say that is not what you have to do. So I actually have a video coming out. I don't know when this podcast is going to come out, but as we're speaking right now, I have a video coming out on Thursday where I talk about this specifically, because this is the mentality and this is also what sometimes others who mean well will tell you is you haven't looked in that storage unit in the two years since you've been in your house.

[B]

Well, I did bring a bunch of crates here, and that's created a horrible problem.

[A]

But I'm just saying, like, this is the type of thing that they would say is you haven't looked in There, you haven't needed anything, you're fine. It's best to just let it all go. And if you can, of course, that's what's best. But the all or nothing mentality is that if I don't think I can do all, then I'm going to do nothing. And that is the problem. And so it does not have to be all or nothing. So instead you just said, I've brought some crates here. Thinking about, there's a lot of layers here. You've got your much smaller home than what you used to have. That home is a container. It is what it is the time that you have left that you don't know how much time that is, but it's very important to you to prioritize that time. Is this, is this is where you're living? As far as you know, this is where you're living.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

At this point and could potentially be, you know, for long term or for, you know, the. All of it. I mean, you just don't know. And so making this the most functional and comfortable place that it can be, as opposed to all or nothing. We're not talking about keep it all or get rid of it all. We're just saying, how do I get this place to be functional? And then Also the, the $132 is on your situation is money that you would like to not be spending on that. Okay. But what you can do is what's right in front of you. Okay. Because there is logistics involved with the storage unit. You also said some of your son stuff is in there. So that's another logistical issue that comes with, if I was ever to get that, then what will we do with his stuff? Or would he have, you know, all that kind of stuff?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So. So instead to say, okay, all, all I can do is what I can do. So one of those bins that you brought home from there, the goal being to get rid of the bin. So either as I, as I look in there, I'm first, I'm just going to say all I'm doing right now is looking. That's it. And like we talked about before, I'm going to count that as success, because that is officially what I need to do. I need to look, I'm going to see if there's any trash that I can get rid of. If there's not, I've still been successful because of the trash. So that whole, like, making the goal better and less, I think, is. Have you embraced that?

[B]

At this point, I'm having those first little wins. I have a good slogan. Been successful. B I n. Been successful.

[A]

I love it. I love it. So, so. But the as you do that, it becomes almost more of an issue. Like if you find yourself stuck and you're like, the ideal would be to go, okay, I'm going to pull out the trash. All right? I'm going to pull out anything that I do know where it goes. I'm going to pull out anything that's an obvious don. But even with that, it's this. Every single thing either has to go. Everything that comes out of this bin either has to go to a real home, which I'm going to take it there now and it's going to displace something else because everything is full. Right. Is that what you were telling me?

[B]

Yeah, it's that I came here needing shoulder surgery.

[A]

Oh my goodness. Yeah, exactly.

[B]

It took a good year. I mean, months. I could move, but what a nightmare. So the first year here was like, yeah, so we're going on the second year. I did look in the bins. I've had some practice over this week and it felt so good to throw out trash and not condemning myself to like, why? Why did you say? Well, because you had a home to decorate. Because.

[A]

And all of that is valid, but also it's not necessary to know why.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And instead to say, I'm going to stick to the fact based questions that don't require the why. If something requires a why so that I'm going to need some sort of maybe mental health professional help or something for it, which I am not, then I'm going to skip over that. Right. But it's, it's like going in and saying, this bin is in the way.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

This bin is making my life harder. This bin has to go. So I'm going to look in this bin and every single thing in it is either going to go to a home where it displaces something else, meaning something else is going to have to leave to make the room for it in that home. And that thing is going to have to go in the trash or the donate box or it's going to go in the trash or the donate box. Like those. That's it. Those are the only options for this

[B]

bin, I think spaces. But because they've never been anything because this environment.

[A]

Okay, so being in a new. Absolutely. Yeah. No, I, I get this question a lot because when I moved to my house, I didn't know where anything was. I mean, you kind of sometimes have a general idea like, with your kitchen, because you know how you kind of function while you're cooking. But other than that, when it's just things, you're like, where do I look for. Where would I look for the scores from the musicals that I directed 20 years ago? There's no logical place, but we don't worry about logic, Right? So instead. And it's a little bit weird in the beginning, but it is legitimately me standing there going, if I needed this in this house, if I was standing here and this house was under control and I needed this music, where would I look for it first? And for me, the answer was on a shelf in this. A shelf in my dog's room. I mean, I know it's not technically my dog's room, but it's, you know, that's where the dogs are. So that's what we call it. But, like, that's the place. Is that a right or wrong place? It's right, because that's where I say I would look for it, period. And so it's not a matter of knowing where something would be. And that distinction is really important, that this question is not me asking myself, where would it be? I don't know where it would be in this house. It's literally. I know I have it. I have no idea where it is. Where is the first place where I would look?

[B]

I am creating homes. That's where I'm at.

[A]

That's how you create the phone, the home.

[B]

I'm creating a home out of.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yes. And giving your real home with the goal. But. But all of that going into it with the mindset that this bin has to leave my house. And so, because my house is already overwhelming to me, because function has to, like. Like, I'm assuming that the caregiving is a very physical job, and you have your own physical struggles.

[B]

That's why things slide so much. And I get overwhelmed, mostly. I mean, I. I cook. I still. I love. We used to cook together. I'm a major cook.

[A]

But I do want to say, like, anything highly physical like that needs empty space.

[B]

Amen.

[A]

Like, to be able to get around the side of the bed, to be able to get around the chair. So. Because one day you might have one shoulder that's hurting, and so you kind of need to try from the other different angle than what you usually do. But, like, all of those physical things are making all of that harder, and that has to be priority. So it's. So the point is that when you go into that bin, you know that almost everything in it is going to go to trash or donation, almost everything. But you're giving yourself permission that if you run across something that can't go into trash or donation, then you ask yourself, where would I look for it first? And then you take it there now and you face the reality of that space. Sometimes facing the reality of that space may make you go, yeah, no, I don't actually need this. So sometimes the okay, well then I have to take it there now makes you realize, I don't want to take it there now. I'm going to stick it and donate or, you know, all of these things or something else will leave. But with thinking of like all the space around the bed, all the space around the recliner where, you know, he sits, I'm assuming. Right. Like I'm just picturing now and it

[B]

lifts them up and it sits him down.

[A]

Yes, exactly. But all of that space around that is already taken space empty. Like its function that it needs is taking space. So if there's physical stuff there, that stuff needs to leave that space because that space is already taken by the function that it needs. Because, I mean, you know how it is when you are, when you do finally clear, like when the kitchen, you know, when you, when the dishes are all done and you're able to walk in and just start cooking, like, doesn't your body just go, yes, that was so easy. I didn't register before how hard it was to have to shift and move so many things and finagle so much stuff, breathe.

[B]

And also I tend to do prep work, say, and I will freeze, you know, so even components, you know, chopping garlic and onions and blah, blah, blah, and pre sauteing and that's one day. And then maybe I'll freeze that and Ziploc. Then another day I'm working out systems. It is clear around the bed in his recliner, kind of that he can, he needs to be safe.

[A]

Yes. And so then start to expand those clear spaces. Yeah, like anything that, like think about how important it is that that's clear and think, life would be even easier if even more space was clear and even more space was clear because I wouldn't have all these things. So as you do a bin and you say, I'm going to count this as success if all I do is open it up and look inside, I'm going to count this as success. If I throw anything in the trash, I'm going to count this as success. If anything goes to a real home and doesn't just get set aside because as long as it gets set aside, that's when not, that's when it's not real progress. And that's the thing that is self

[B]

defeating and it does build on itself. And I can see that it felt really good to throw some things away that were pretty easy because I think I have been digesting your methods for a while. Quite a while. But that balance of losing me, that's the snag, you know?

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think that that's, that's the reason why we don't say all or nothing.

[B]

Well, that's why you resonate with me. I, I love the people you collaborate with and I do, you know, watch them, but I'm not. You resonate with me. I'm not a minimalist. I don't want to be a minimalist. I, you know, I think I, I find it really frustrating because I can't paint walls when I had all faux finishes in my home and I can't hang plants from the ceiling, which I absolutely would have a jungle if I could do that. And I think that's. I need to learn not to focus on what isn't. You know what I'm saying?

[A]

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[C]

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[B]

Yep.

[C]

Even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1NA member FDIC.

[A]

So instead of thinking of yourself as a, instead of thinking of it as minimalism as being the goal, because that's not your goal, think of it as functionalism. Yes, I want to be a functionalist. That is my goal.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So that means I want to be able to. To do creative things.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You want to have plants.

[B]

Yes, I wanna. It gives me so much pleasure and even my husband, he just loves that about me and what was us and

[A]

you know, you know from experience how much space is needed for that. So if you have that mindset of what do I want? I want this room to have the space for him to be safe and for me to be able. And I want to be able to have plants, which means the plants are going to displace some other stuff. And it might be some other identity stuff. But when you think of it as I'm letting go of this thing that I don't do anymore. Because doing that, because letting that go is going to let me do the thing that will make me me right now. Like, so it's not. Because I think so many times we have this idea that when. When you look. When you look at decluttering in the traditional way, you know, of. Do you love it, get rid of it if it's not serving you and blah blah, blah. It just feels like the only way to get rid of something is to hate it or to say it's not good or. Or to admit that I'm never or is to change who I am and not be a creative person anymore sober.

[B]

I'm giving up on everything.

[A]

Well, that's what it feels like. And you're not going to do that because that's not your personality. But instead to say, no, I'm going to get rid of these things so that I have the space to do the thing that I desperately want to do. Like, so plants are important to you. What is something else that. That you could do currently in your stage of life that you really want to do that you probably already have the supplies for anything?

[B]

Well, I mean, I want to perfect sourdough. I wasn't going to put up a tree. It's there in a box. Not opened new because I got actually also robbed with coming back here from North Carolina during COVID and I. Long story short, I realized soon after that this moving company, a bunch of stuff was gone. Oh no. Like furniture, my, like sleep sofa, like all of our Christmas stuff, you know, so you see how things become more precious than they should be. But I don't want to be all or nothing. And because I have my hand in so many things, like I can't. I had every supply for everything. And I can relate to you that way. You know, I mean, if. If you needed it, you had it. You know, all your costumes and so.

[A]

So focusing on the doing. Focusing on the doing because. Because I'm guessing that, you know, life feels very small right now, that it feels like you're kind of stuck in one spot because you are caregiving 100% of the time, which means you don't have the freedom to do a lot of the things that maybe you could do before, but this is also exactly where you want to be, right? Is helping him. So that becomes an issue of what could I do in this space, this situation that lets me be me, but in a version that actually works for my current situation. And then those things get priority, which means a lot of the other stuff letting go. Because I Think it's that identity stuff is. Is a huge issue, but the container concept helps with that is this is my current situation. I don't have room for this identity that I'm currently living in to be what I want it to be. If I'm also trying to hold on to the stuff.

[B]

Well, picky in things. For instance, I consume a lot of. I got some junk furniture that was given to me because my beautiful antiques and stuff, which I already let go of a ton of, mostly yard saling and you know, making over and doing cool stuff. I have some beautiful papers and I would love to chalk, paint and decoupage and I could put a plastic liner on the floor and actually do that. It would make a piece of junk because I love since a teenager my. My physical environment to be groovy. You know, I mean, I had beads in the doorway and you know, I haven't changed much, you know, the old hippie. But I. I think that would be like so rewarding and it wouldn't be tiny bits of a gazillion supplies. I have everything I need. There is a little storage closet that each apartment gets. So. Oh, I've got the paints and the brushes and the foot, you know, unopened. A lot of it.

[A]

So. So the idea would be get rid stuff to open up the space to be able to do that thing that you already have the supplies for.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That you could actually do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And. And so thinking of that as open space, a clear table, a clear surface with nothing stored on it, with nothing stored around it for the purpose of functioning and being able to do the thing.

[B]

I need to get rid of a ton of small things, you know, the little handmade things that I would fill my home with and give for gifts.

[A]

And a lot of that stuff is like super in right now. And so if you donate it, I

[B]

know somebody would love it.

[A]

They're going to be so thrilled to find that at the thrift store. And so. So, you know, and that's the beauty of donating, is the speed at which you can get spaces cleared out. You know, is. Is by donating and trashing.

[B]

Not that, oh, I'm giving up. I think that's a really good focus because I know how excited I have been over the years when I find that one of a kind or, you know, these things were expensive. And I think the shame and the guilt, the money spent, as you say, it's. I can't get that back. But I've been so hanging on to the identity of. Well, you could still do that. You know, don't give up on that. Well, no, I can't. I can't do it all well.

[A]

And I think too the whole identity thing that you. You've brought up multiple times. I think I'm getting the vibe that your identity is that you are interested and interesting.

[B]

Well, at least one. I'm interested in things.

[A]

But. But I do like that that that is a big part of your identity is the actual. Is the creativity of it. But the physical stuff in the smaller space along with the trauma that you've

[B]

endured, limited really physical ability that I need to face just on my own,

[A]

that that is keeping you from actually doing the thing. So. So the clearing of the space is the purpose of it is ultimately to give you and your creativity space to be creative and. And it's that backfire that happens. Right. Like I'm keeping these things because I identify as creative and yet because I'm keeping so many of them and not embracing reality, then it's keeping me from being creative.

[B]

Yes. Ding, ding, ding.

[A]

Okay, good. Solve that problem. So tell me something else you want to talk about.

[B]

We talked about the limited function and how that overwhelm envelops me so that I can't move forward and that breaking through that I need. I know that doing. I can take the experience of doing the dishes and say, well Susie, you're. I was waking up every day and feeling like I was digging a hole deeper and deeper because that was always overflowing with dishes. And I have come with a system that you're better off pre prepping for meals in stages, freezing things, doing things so that you're still creative in your cooking. Because I think that's why my husband married me all those years ago. It was a bad that I wouldn't know how to baked bread this hippie girl. So he took me home and I to his parents who are away and I baked bread. And I think that was it, you know, so I mean pleasure. I still have an audience with him that he's really appreciative and you know, being foodies and I got to keep that up. So I know that. But also I think the system and the doing the dishes has shown me that there is progress on that front and that is a part of my creativity. But I also used to love a beautiful table and I have a hutch with all these cool dishes. And even though I've gotten rid of oodles and buckets and rooms of stuff that last holding on, you know what? I'm not going to get to set a table with soup terrines and linen and, you know, I can't even have candles here because they don't trust the old people, you know, you know, finding the courage. I think it will build on itself.

[A]

Well, and it will build. And also, don't start with the soup tureen. Start with the bin that you've been maneuvering around and start with the easy stuff inside of that bin.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because you might. You might find out that you get to keep the soup train just to look at the soup terrain. Or you might get to the point where you're like, yeah, I'm ready to get rid of that soup terrine.

[B]

I mean, I dehydrated oranges, and I could make a cool centerpiece out of that, and I could. I mean, you know, you have lots of ideas, right?

[A]

Absolutely, absolutely. But that's. That's my point is don't start with the soup terrine because. Because there are other things to get rid of before you get to the soup tureen. And the. The power of the small progress through the doing the dishes is a reminder that it will be worth it to do those small things.

[B]

Just hearing you say that, even though I've heard it many times, I keep going back to reverting, to looking at the hole when I need to look in the bin. And, you know, those dishes are all beautifully in a hutch that needs to go. And I really want my son and his wife to take it because they want it, but they just moved and their plate's full. But it's okay. Why don't I ignore that and stop obsessing? What idea? You know, and I incrementally and honestly, I even think this upcoming conversation with you kind of lit a fire to progress, to actually take the step to focus. And I need to quit when I need to quit, my back really hurts and I need to lay down, and I'm on pain medicine, and it is the reality of my life. But picking a couple of things and having the courage, taking pleasure out of donating and doing something for someone else, I think would be really nice.

[A]

Yeah. Well, and also just the doing it in a way that acknowledges that your back may start hurting. And so I'm going to do this in a way where I can stop when I need to stop, and I can honor the fact that this is my current situation, you know, and as long as the stuff is in the hutch, I totally understand that it's driving you bonkers because you're. You already know you want your son to take it and he's already said he wants it and and so that that kind of thing like oh, that would free up so much space and yet it's already in the hutch. So let's focus on a bin because we know a bin needs to go right? Yeah, there's nothing better than a home cooked meal. Our lives look a little different now that we're empty nesters and I love it. Hellofresh makes it so easy to put out delicious, satisfying recipes even when it's just the two of us. I really love how HelloFresh sends everything that I need to my doorstep so that all Bob or I have to do is pull the bag out for that night's meal and get to cooking. It makes it so easy for whoever's home first to cook that night. HelloFresh helps you beat the winter blues with recipes and cuisines from around the world. Choose from seafood, antibiotic and hormone free chicken and their new grass fed steak ribeyes and you can add seasonal produce like pears, apples and asparagus to your meals. There's so many meals to choose from like Tex Mex Chicken Enchilada bowls and Cajun Shrimp and bacon Sandos. They are delicious and I found so many more meals that totally fit what we like to eat. Dinner never tasted better and nothing hits home like home cooking. Go to hellofresh.com slob10fm to get 10 free meals plus a free Zwilling knife $144.99 value on your third box offer valid while supplies last. Free meals apply as discount on first box. New subscribers only. Varies by plan. That's hellofresh.com slob10fm

[C]

with no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1NA member FDIC.

[A]

So what was the other thing you wanted to talk about?

[B]

Well, I wish I could go back and look at all the one hour better things, even if it was just the people that were in it. Because honestly I miss them sometimes because of appointments and stuff. I try to write it on my calendar, that sort of thing. Because we're also super isolated and that's kind of a body doubling.

[A]

And you're talking about the work alongs right? Once a week.

[B]

Well just even consuming your, your books. I mean I, I know the five step method. How do I ever still make piles? I mean, you know, I mean shame on me.

[A]

No shame, no shame.

[B]

But I know better. I'm like what did you just do? Dana said, you know you're not supposed to do that and it does exactly what you say it's gonna do. It doesn't work and it makes a bigger mess. And I think just this reinforcing and reinforcing and that's why reading also other people's posts.

[A]

Do you watch my YouTube videos?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Okay. Okay. So there's the one hour betters there. I. I will say you know we encourage you in the group which I know you said you're not techie but you know we encourage the group members to start to, to do their own work alongs right. Is that we have the one a week and then say that. So you might even just say anybody want to host a work along? I don't know how to do it. And obviously there will be times where there's nobody available to do that. But I think you might be surprised at at there being others who would say absolutely I'll get on zoom.

[B]

Here's the link because been putting my picture on there because I have so much shame. I'm a mess. I don't want anyone to see me. I don't want see it. I'm so self defeating and that's why capitalizing on the wins. And I know that this is a non judgmental group and it's funny you just. It's very difficult to get away from the shame.

[A]

It is, it is but because people

[B]

don't understand in this place with your community but the very few like we stopped going to church in January. It's not close anymore. Well, wasn't close. We had a great community when we went down south for three years. But we're back here and we're back to where we used to go and they're wonderful and. But I'm far away and you know I, I lose touch with so many people. I have a dear friend, but she's even older than me. She's in better physical shape. But you know that help and that embarrassment when people don't struggle with your struggles. And that's the kind of person that's going to help me the most. Not saying those things. Things I, I read which I lost for a month. Jesus doesn't care about your messy house. I lost the book for a month.

[A]

But you found it again.

[B]

In progress. I love it. I lifted something up on a bureau and I'm. That's where it went.

[A]

So funny.

[B]

It's just so important to remind myself that Grace. Yep, it is hard. And that sticking with it, that. That not being all or nothing. The community and my church family, that would be there for me if. I mean, I just. I've lost touch. I can't leave my husband very much, and he just can't get himself out after this last hospitalization as much as he wants to. You know, it'll be three in the morning, and he's been up, and I'm going, I want to go. And he's such a people person. So it's just what it is. And I have to live in the reality of that.

[A]

Well, and I think that's. That's what's hard, is it is a legitimately difficult situation. So what physical things are adding to the difficulty of that situation?

[B]

I think I'm having a hard time. I have places where I could put things. Now I'm gonna have to step on a step stool and a ladder, and I have lots of drawers that can be making those decisions.

[A]

Well, I think. I think rule out the stepstool. I mean, like, say, okay, I'm. I'm not gonna do things that require a step stool because the reality is we've had enough issues, and I don't need to be stepping on a step stool. And it can be frustrating. Right. When you've had so much stuff and you see an empty shelf that potentially you could put something on it if you could get on a step stool. But instead, that shelf is a non. It's just not. It's not an option. And so I'm not going to view that as part of my container. Because for safety, you're taking care of your husband. He can't get up there. You need to make sure that you don't get injured. And so we take that out, which means that the container just shrank. But at the same time, embracing the container is where the freedom is. It's not in having a bigger container. It's in that accepting of the reality, which you've done a lot of. You've really talked a lot about embracing your reality and getting to that point. I think that saying, I'm going to embrace the space, like, I'm going to embrace the space. I'm going to really look at this physical space and just say, I'm Going to accept how much of it I've got. I'm going to accept that that top shelf is not accessible to me. And so it's not an option. And going with that, I think is going to bring that freedom that you're looking for and remove a lot of that angst from the process, the clarity

[B]

of what to keep.

[A]

Because you have, you've been saying it's a lot of. You have a lot of different things. You have to accept the reality of which is really hard and which people are in therapy for years, go going through all of that. Right. But this physical stuff, say, okay, what is one category of stuff that I have name for me? One category of things that you already know. I've got way more stuff than I have seen space for that. Like what's a category of things?

[B]

Okay, I've got lots of cards I've collected over the years. That was the thing that I did was encouraging. And of course I have to have all the supplies that could possibly ever be needed for anything.

[A]

Okay, so where would you look first for those cards?

[B]

I have a crate that I have them in a little antiquey wooden crate.

[A]

And you have space for that crate?

[B]

Well, I think I have too much.

[A]

Okay. I think have more stuff than will fit in that crate.

[B]

Not for cards and letters. But I'm. That's the kind of thing where I say stop stalking. Well, I have stopped stocking up and I feel bad because they cost money and they're neat and that's a way of writing. You know, I used to be really good and people would tell me what encouragement it was and writing to them. Like this 90 year old woman that's a friend from church, she can't get out anymore and. But I know I can't handle that volume anymore of stuff.

[A]

Okay, so do you. Where would you look for them first? Where you would find them if that, if that bin was no longer there?

[B]

Well, there's, there's shelves in the bedroom that I'm trying to outfit now and make sense of what deserves to be there. What am I gonna use?

[A]

Okay, so what I would say is, is take, okay, you have this bigger thing of cards and you know, you need to have less and find a small bin or a box. It could just be a box. Any kind of thing. Yeah, a small thing that's significantly smaller than the. What you have a midnail and practice with that. Go through those and say, you know, just instinctually, I mean, enjoy them as you're looking at them, but instinctually, this one's worthy of the smaller box. This one's not. It's going to go and donate. This one's worthy of the smaller box, this one's not. And I think practicing that something very specific is going to give you that experience of oh, the container is the ultimate reality acceptance. And it totally changes all the angst feelings that I have. Like I think practicing those cards into a very small container make an impact

[B]

that so much sense. I and it's so ridiculous. I didn't really think of it that way.

[A]

It's not ridiculous. This is, this is how I have a job. Right?

[B]

It's the. Yeah, I'm so all or nothing that doesn't occur. Do something sensible like that all containers have to be smaller because the smaller

[A]

containers are then going to fit on the shelf and then the shelf is the container to determine. So that that way you don't have anything that's sitting on the floor because you need floor space to be open for as much movement as possible to be easy.

[B]

Because looming large is the storage unit. I need to kind of. I know that there are some things I'm going to want to keep and I know that in this little storage closet in the building.

[A]

But listen, if you got this space to where you had open floor space and you didn't have any bins here and everything that was in this, this smaller place than you used to live in, but this reality that you're living in now and if everything actually had a put away home, then picture bringing a bin from your storage unit and having all this open space to be able to have a donate box here, a trash bag here and the vast majority of it go in there. And how simple and easy that would be, just, just like it's so simple and easy to cook in a kitchen that has open space and doesn't have a bunch of stuff to have to shift around and move around.

[B]

It will start to make more sense as I do it.

[A]

I think it absolutely will. But that's also in the future. And I think, I think for you the key is going to be the really saying what can I do right now with the way I feel today with the space that I have with every. What can I do right now that is gonna have to be done anyway if I ever get this space to where I want it to be? So you know where you're going. You want open functional space where you can do plants and make sourdough. Those are the things and those are going to be your creative pursuits. I mean obviously it can change and you can do whatever you want to do. Right. But I'm going to zero in on. I want to function, to be able to do these things that make me feel like me in the midst of this situation that is so outside my comfort zone. And then doing very small things, counting everything as success, because if I had to, if I would have to do it anyway to ever be able to have the freedom and space to do sourdough and plants, then I might, as you know, I can do that now and I can count that as success because it's moved me forward.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Anything else you want to talk about?

[B]

I just have scrambled eggs for brains, and it's getting that stuff solidify, you know?

[A]

Well, it. But here's the thing, actually, it doesn't. It's not necessary for it to be solidified in your brain. The only thing in your brain needs to be, I'm going to open up this box and look inside. And this is very normal for those of us who are highly creative is we want to play it all out in our brain before we start. And that's the. All or nothing is the. Well, I can't figure out how it would all play out. And so I'm gonna not do anything until I get that figured out. But I'm never going to figure that out until I've done something and I've had the experience to know how things will go. So instead, say, I am only going to focus on this for right now because if I do this, just like doing the dishes, this small thing of opening this bin and looking for trash is going to make an impact. And a little something is better than nothing.

[B]

So when I have such a plethora of glues and bits and bobs and so.

[A]

So that comes down to the container concept as well. It comes down to, you know, you're probably going to free up a bin where you go, this is the. This is the size of bin that I, in my current situation, could lift and bring from the storage closet into the table. This is the size. So this is the limit to crafting supplies that I can have. So, yes, I've got a thousand glues. If you really have a thousand glues, some of them are dried up, right? So, But.

[B]

But because I went and made the mistake of looking for hope in those endeavors because so much I went and resupplied myself.

[A]

So instead you say, this is the size of. This is the space that I have for craft stuff that's actually functional for me. And when you acknowledge just that physical space, it's going to be like, well, I've got to have paper and glue and paint and brushes in there, which means I can't have all the glues and I can't have all the paper, and I can't have all the paint, and I can't have all of the brushes. And so then it's going to naturally sort out, well, these are the three best brushes. And then here's that other one that's a little bit different size and style that I like. Okay. So that deserves space. The paper. Okay. I mean, like, all of that physical space is going to help you. It's going to help make so many of that. Those decisions. And so until you're in that moment of looking at that physical space with the physical stuff in your hand, there's really not any point in thinking through how it's going to work out.

[B]

I think that's really good because it sounds ridiculous, but I. I thought I had to give up on ever doing X or Y or Z. And so I have so many more supplies than what I need to get started that it doesn't even occur to me because, oh, my goodness, I've spent this money and it's all good, right? It's all good. Okay. You can't. You don't have the space. So reiterating what you're saying is making sense to me, even though I feel like there's been a mental block with that, that, well, I'm either gonna do this thing or I'm not gonna do this thing thing without really realizing. Pick the best things. You know, you can't keep all the paint brushes and all the glue and all the paint.

[A]

I'm excited for you. I'm excited to keep sharing in the group and share what's been helpful because we cheer on every little last bit of progress.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Every teeny, tiny bit.

[B]

I really appreciate it. It's. It's been a lifeline, I think, and it's invaluable to know that other people struggle. And I guess I felt so unique because it's just a weird situation, you know, I now very hampered physically, and then I have this whole thing, and I tend to focus on what isn't working and what's terrible and awful and loss and it's just digging a hole for myself. Yeah.

[A]

Well, I'm glad that you did this. I'm glad that you were willing and

[B]

came on here, and I'm just very appreciative. You have no idea.

[A]

Well, I. I appreciate every listener, and I appreciate. I. It's Truly a. Surprises me again and again honor in my life that. That I can actually be helpful to people on this subject. That, you know, is my own personal struggle. But. But I think that. That being open and honest about my struggles is so much more fun than.

[B]

Yeah. And enjoying watching you be interviewed.

[A]

Well, you've. You've shared. I usually ask people what's their favorite thing about being a kindred spirit, but you've kind of shared that if you had anything else to share or not.

[B]

But I have the not feeling alone.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The camaraderie. And I don't think it can be overstated that having the group and having that one hour, which I think it's a structure. Like the five minute pickup is a structure that really benefits me. Even if I do a little. It gives me a time. And I really think it's powerful to. That I'm not alone. Yeah. Even if I'm not, my picture's not on there and I'm listening or I'm just talking a little. I actually just. It was great. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. I find that it's. It's. It's funny because I feel like of the interviews that of these strategy sessions that I've done over the last week or so, everybody is mentioning the work alongs as being their favorite, favorite thing. And that's something we've started in the last. Within the last year.

[B]

I didn't know that.

[A]

Yeah. So they. I love that. I love that people are. Are seeing the value in that because

[B]

have Candace and Linda know that even though people that don't maybe chime up and I have a big mouth, I can talk, but I've been so depressed that even in these moments, just doing something along with the group has really helped. So I want them to know and you to know that you're helping people.

[A]

Thank you. Well, thank you. I have enjoyed this so much. I've really enjoyed our time and I appreciate you. And thank you.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Okay. I hope you loved that conversation. I really, um. I really enjoyed this time that we had together. If you would like to know more about being a Patreon member, you can go to patreon p a t r e o n.com aslabchemsclean and find out more there. I will talk to you all next week. All right, bye.