Sophie Ansari (1:56)

Not James.

Penn Badgley (1:58)

Not James. We'll call him not James.

Sophie Ansari (2:01)

That should be his name on the podcast. Not James.

Nava Kavlin (2:02)

But just to clarify, Penn said, God bless all dogs, all men, the author, but no bitches.

Penn Badgley (2:09)

I love that. That's funny. Okay, that's funny. We'll keep this all just for that.

Nava Kavlin (2:13)

Okay, cool.

Penn Badgley (2:15)

Let's just get to our guests. We don't need to draw any themes.

Nava Kavlin (2:18)

Or meaning out of that.

Penn Badgley (2:19)

I saw a book that I don't like that I wish my child wouldn't read. Now he's gonn. I have to read it to him. Let's get to our guest. Our guest today is Amber Childers, who you may already know and love as Candace on A sweet little show we know around here by the name of you. My show you. My old show you. She was iconic in that role. She has also been in other, I would say equally iconic and award winning films like the Master, the Paul Thomas Anderson masterpiece. You know, people tend to hold up, like, there's Netflix's you and Paul Thomas Anderson's the Master, and then there's everything else. I think that's generally like when you study cinema. That's a TV show.

Sophie Ansari (3:02)

Seymour Hoffman.

Penn Badgley (3:04)

Yeah, those are the two pillars. So, you know, she's worked with the best of the best. Oh, but she also was in the series Aquarius and she was also in Ray Donovan. Outside of film and tv, Amber is a fellow podcaster. She's got a show called Happily Ever Amber and that has its second season exploring everything from family to brain health to sex and spirituality. Amber and I, we had a lot to catch up on. It was a joy to have her back. You're gonna like this one. We'll be right back.

Nava Kavlin (3:41)

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Amber Childers (5:36)

Old girl who chewed through a rope to escape a serial killer. I used my front teeth to saw on the rope in my mouth.

Sophie Ansari (5:45)

He's been convicted of murdering two young.

Amber Childers (5:47)

Women but suspected of many more. Maybe there's another one in that area. And now new leads that could solve these cold cases.

Penn Badgley (5:57)

They could be a victim now. We have no idea.

Sophie Ansari (6:00)

He killed Stolen Voices of Dole Valley.

Amber Childers (6:04)

Breaks the silence on August 19th. Follow us now so you don't miss an episode.

Penn Badgley (6:13)

I just, in doing a little bit of the research, I was reminded how, how transparent and reflective you are now. You know, how open you are. And I have a feeling that you've been doing a lot of reflecting on this period of life for yourself. And so I just, just give us a snapshot of Amber at 12. What was she doing every day? How was she seeing the world? And then of course, because you were very much a budding performing artist, how was her relationship to the arts and stuff?

Amber Childers (6:51)

I was so awkward and maybe people didn't perceive me as awkward, but I just felt so awkward inside. I feel like I didn't really have like, I didn't have like a friend group in the sense that I kind of hung out with a bunch of different groups. Like, we were very segregated, right? We were like, you had the jocks, you had the emos. And I was just kind of like there. Amber was like bouncing around from like. And. Which was beautiful because I was friends with everybody. But there, there weren't a lot of artists I was acting at that point. So people, I feel like kind of, I don't want to say they treated me differently, but they just, I, we just couldn't connect in the same way as I could. I didn't grow up with a lot of artists. There weren't a lot of actors in my middle school. And it's funny actually, I just remember this thought just now. I think in seventh grade I got voted most likely to be famous and most gullible.

Penn Badgley (7:51)

Really gullible. That could be a bad mix.

Amber Childers (7:56)

And it's so true. I laugh now and I' oh, that. Oh, sorry. Am I allowed to cuss on here?

Penn Badgley (8:01)

Yeah, it's fine.

Amber Childers (8:02)

Yeah, sorry. Yeah, I was really gullible.

Sophie Ansari (8:07)

How does that manifest now? Being gullible? I feel when you said that, I'm like, I'm gullible too, but I'm wondering how it manifests for you.

Amber Childers (8:17)

Probably choosing really bad men. Being gullible is not a negative thing. You just, I want to trust everybody, but unfortunately you can't trust everybody. And you have to develop this intuition, which now I very much have. And that goes later into, I stopped drinking. And I think that's something that's really helped me dial in on understanding, okay, what is my nervous system telling me? How am I feeling in this moment right now? But when I was in middle school, I was just like, I love the idea of escaping. And for me escaping was, was being an actor. Like, I felt so awkward in my own skin and like, I just didn't know. Like I wasn't super, super smart and I wasn't super athletic. I was somewhere like in, in between. But one thing that I knew that I loved more than anyone in the entire middle schools were I loved acting. I love performing. Because, you know, as we know, like, you're able to step into the shoes of someone else and not be yourself. And that feels really good when you're really insecure in sixth, seventh, eighth grade, which you already are so insecure at that age. And having daughters now, it's like, like I want them to be so confident. And my 11 year old is super confident and she's an amazing dancer. And like, she will, I mean, she will roast you and she'll be funny and like, where my 15 year old is more like, I have a Scorpio and an Aquarius baby and they're like so their signs and I'm a cancer. And I'm like, my turn, literally. Wait, what'd you think?

Penn Badgley (10:02)

I said right there in the middle.

Amber Childers (10:03)

Yeah. Yeah. So today was Riley's last day of fifth grade. And I have this thing where I always give her a kiss and I will always give her a kiss until she starts driving. And then I'll just give her a kiss and like let her leave and go in her car. But I, I said, okay, look at me. And she's like, mom, don't, please, not with the speeches. I said, I am so proud of you. You work so. Mom, please, the speeches, the lectures. I just can't. I just can't. And like, I wanted to take it so personal because I just wanted to let her know how proud of Her, I was for, like, you know, she. She worked hard this year, and she. It was. There was a lot of girl drama, and I was just wanting to show her how much I loved her, but she was not having it, so I was like, oh, okay. But I've arrived at that age. And, yeah, it's just a weird time to be, like, a parent and to see, like, we were prank calling people on a. Like a landline right now. These kids are like, hosting Zoom videos and like, FaceTime, playing all these games, and I'm like, I don't even know how to parent this child, like, in this phase of life, you know, because.

Penn Badgley (11:20)

I'm not sure anybody does, really. It's. I mean, it's. It's. It's. There are those of us who are learning, but, oh, my goodness, it's not easy.

Nava Kavlin (11:29)

You know, you. You had brought on. I don't want to take us too, too far off topic, but you had brought on Dr. Eliza Pressman to. To an episode of your show, and she gave a metaphor for parenting that I'd never thought about, even though it obvious, which is that the day your baby is born, you're born as a parent, at least your firstborn. So of course there's going to be a period where you're a toddler as a parent where you're, like, wobbling and stuff. And imagine where, like, you've never gone through, like, you. You're the first generation of parents to ever in history go through parenting kids through what they're going through right now. Like, this has never happened before. So there's no, like, historical. There's no, like, epigenetical knowledge of how to do this. Like, that's crazy. You guys are really pioneers in figuring out how to parent kids through this.

Penn Badgley (12:11)

You know, just about. Pioneers. It's just grisly. It's just grizzly out there at first.

Nava Kavlin (12:16)

There's gonna be lots of mistakes, you know? Cause nobody knows how to do it.

Amber Childers (12:20)

I'm so glad that you mentioned that, because I've actually never heard that before. And it actually makes me feel so much better. Cause a lot of the time I'm like, I gotta go take a nap. Like, I need to put myself in a timeout because I don't know what the fuck I'm doing right now, you know? And it's true. It's really hard. But it's also because I'm learning to reparent myself, right? There's so much of my childhood that maybe I didn't get or I wanted or I didn't understand. And now at this phase of my life I'm like, oh, Amber. The 36 year old Amber gets to reparent, the 12 year old Amber and give her what she needed.

Penn Badgley (12:58)

Did your parents ever give you any kind of anything close to that? Those speeches you're giving yours now, you know what I mean? Like, did they demonstrate their pride in you in ways that you could feel?

Amber Childers (13:10)

So my parents are obviously from a different generation and it was like slap on the back, make us proud. Tough love. I grew up in a very, very tough love kind of family. And I know that that has served me well in some aspects of my life. Like learning to be resilient in an industry as an artist that is not always going to be in your favor. And you're going to have years where you don't work and you're going to have years are on cloud nine. And that builds grit. And I think that that's what my parents definitely showed me. The other part of the nurturing, the loving part. I mean they loved, they loved us in the best way they, they knew how. And I think that's something beautiful is when you become a parent you realize, oh my God, my parents went through so much. And so there's like that whole, you know, aspect of, of forgiveness and nurturing and whatnot. But my parents are like tough ranchers. Like they're in Nebraska, they're like wrestling cattle. Like they're doing the whole thing. So like, very different household. Very different.

Penn Badgley (14:21)

That's right. So, so you, so did you grow? Where were you born? Just, you were born kind of in that Midwest thing, weren't you?

Amber Childers (14:30)

So I was born in Arizona, in Cottonwood, Arizona. That's right. That's right. And then when I was five, I moved out to a place called Marietta, California, which is near Temecula. That's where people. It's like wine country.

Penn Badgley (14:42)

Right. And that's why. That's when you were close ish. Where you were close ish to LA and Hollywood. That made it feasible when you were 8, 9, 10, 11, 12.

Amber Childers (14:53)

Yeah, it was like an hour and a half drive. Now it's probably like two and a half hours. But yeah, and I'm so grateful that my parents were super supportive of this. I'm shocked actually, knowing them now, I'm like, how would you even let me, you know, shocked that you even let me say, hey, I want to be an actor. And they were like, okay. Because I grew up playing golf and basketball. We were total boys. Like, my dad wanted Boys, he got girls. And he was like, I'm going to make these. You know, we were tomboys like, through and through, so.

Penn Badgley (15:22)

And you really were talented, right?

Amber Childers (15:25)

We. What?

Penn Badgley (15:25)

You were, you were really talented as an athlete. Like, you were really.

Amber Childers (15:28)

Yeah, yeah, I was. I'm super competitive. So we. I grew up playing basketball. I traveled and then I played golf. Played golf like all over the country. Grew up with Rickie Fowler. Grew up with like a bunch of like really great guys that like, end up doing really well in the golf space. But yeah, it was, it was great. And then I ended up, my senior year of high school, I booked a soap opera in New York. And so I graduated high school three months early, took all my exams, moved to New York, started my job on All My Children, flew back to walk to get my graduation or to get my diploma.

Nava Kavlin (16:07)

Oh, God.

Amber Childers (16:08)

And then flew back and started working. So.

Sophie Ansari (16:10)

Wow.

Nava Kavlin (16:10)

I can't imagine doing those things at 17, 18. It would be so intimidating.

Amber Childers (16:15)

So intimidating. I don't know. I just want it out so badly. I just wanted freedom. I wanted, you know, like everything that you crave at 17. You're like, I've been under restraints from my parents. I grew up in a Mormon household. So it was like, you know, we were, my parents were strict. We didn't, you know, they. And, and I'm grateful they were because, you know, kids were doing a lot of not great things like in high school and middle school.

Sophie Ansari (16:39)

So, yeah, you describe, I mean, I read somewhere that you found an ad at 8 years old for a talent agency in a newspaper which to me paints you as such a go getter. And then what you just described of like, you know, taking all your exams early, like, I don't even think about myself at 17. Like, logistically I would have been like, it's too complicated to figure this out.

Nava Kavlin (17:05)

I'll wait.

Sophie Ansari (17:06)

I just feel like there's so much ambition there. And even seeing like your, what you post online, like your, your fitness, like, I feel like that ambition carries through. But I'm curious, going back to middle school, if there's other ways that you saw that ambition and like go getter attitude come through, or was it really with theater?

Amber Childers (17:28)

Mostly it was only with acting. It was weird. And I think now, like, now having a better understanding of what ADD is, it's like you, I didn't get bad grades. I got good grades. But I also knew that my parents said as soon as your grades slipped, we weren't taking you to auditions. That was kind of like the exchange and so my motivation of getting good grades was I could go audition. And I. I worked really hard to make sure because school didn't come super easy for me. I hated, like, sitting there and listening, and I get so tired. And, like, you know, we all go to school for, like, the social aspect, but for me, I was like, any chance that I got to get out of school early to drive up to L. A to audition, it was like, there was no. It was. There was no plan B in life for me. I think at a very. It's like. It's also a curse, and it could also be a blessing. But, like, once I fell in love with acting, I was like, tunnel vision. That was what I was going to do. No one was stopping me.

Penn Badgley (18:28)

And then you, like, got to a point where you were getting a scholarship, and you also made, like, the all star softball team. So it sounds to me like you were spending a lot of time playing sports, too. Is that right?

Amber Childers (18:40)

Yeah. I mean, sports were our life. I traveled for basketball, too, so we would. And I played basketball and golf in high school, and I just loved. I love basketball. Like, I don't know if you guys have seen my. I'm, like, a huge basketball fan. I don't know what it is. I just. I love going to the Staples Center. I love watching it. It's just. And maybe because the. The ball is, like, constantly moving, and my brain is like that. I find that very stimulating.

Penn Badgley (19:08)

True. It's very, very fast.

Amber Childers (19:10)

Very, very fast. But, yeah, I. I worked really hard, and I love sports. Sports have taught me so much more about life than sometimes going through the experience. Like, for. For instance, I had a coach, Coach Ruth. He was the boys basketball coach, but he was also my English teacher. He always said, if you are on time, you're late, and if you're early, you're on time. And that philosophy has stuck with me. So, like, if I'm like, you early to this zoom.

Nava Kavlin (19:46)

Yeah, we can attest to that.

Amber Childers (19:48)

Thank you. Thank you. I don't. And maybe I can listen up a little bit about it, but really, my daughter's 25 minutes early for school every day for two reasons. When I live, like, three minutes from her school, I think it's really important to teach her those lessons, like, just to instill those lessons in her, like, get to get there early. And two, I want her to get. I know this sounds really probably nerdy and scientific weird, but I want her to get sunlight in her eyes, like, and be outside with her friends before she sits down.

Penn Badgley (20:24)

And so, like, that's good.

Amber Childers (20:26)

Yeah. It's something that I learned on another podcast.

Penn Badgley (20:30)

It's funny to say. I think it might be weird and nerdy to say, I want my child to be outdoors in 2025. I want her to see the light of day before she has to look at a teacher or a screen.

Amber Childers (20:43)

I know, but some people might think it's so strange, but there's these little. I'm also big into meditation, like, nighttime meditation. And Riley sleeps with me for the last, like, eight months. And some people are like, what the hell are you doing? And I'm like, I need. We need each other, and we actually meditate. And I'm instilling these, like, that's awesome. Little. Like, whether I'm using an app, whether I'm putting on, like, Native American flute music, like, we just. That's our. That's our bonding together. And I think those are healthy habits that you could teach your kids early on in life to, because who knows where this world is going, but, like, how to regulate your system.

Nava Kavlin (21:23)

Amber, I'm curious.

Amber Childers (21:24)

You.

Nava Kavlin (21:25)

You just were talking about meditate, sort of a meditating practice, and you mentioned growing up Mormon. It sounds like you left the church. And I'm curious, kind of if anything from Mormonism has stayed with you or any kind of, like, spiritual practice, kind of. Where are you at with that right now?

Amber Childers (21:42)

That's a deep question.

Nava Kavlin (21:43)

Yeah, it's a loaded question.

Amber Childers (21:45)

I realize, you know, I learned a lot of great things from the Mormon Church. I think that it kept me out of trouble, a lot of values. But there's also things that I'm, like, I could have lived without. I think prayer has definitely come back around. During my sobriety, I kind of lost my way because I was like, why would God do this to me? Or why. Why are all these bad things happening? It's like the typical question of, like, if there was a God, none of this would be happening. So I became really spiritual in. In the sense of, like, understanding the universe. And, like, I would find spirituality in, like, the trees and the wind and the. In Mother Nature. And then I just took it slowly, and I. I slowly started, like, praying and being like, okay, like, are you there? And, like, even if I was mad, I would still pray. And, like, I would still be very angry with God sometimes, but I was still doing the practice of learning, having to have a relationship with a higher power. It's worked for me. And not, like, it gives me faith in something that's bigger than myself. And I feel like where I'm at in my life. I don't want to be in charge of my life anymore. I want to be able to take action and do the things, take steps towards the things that I want to accomplish. But I know it's not going to happen in my timing. Ever has happened in my timing. Like, I heard this joke recently that's like, if you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans. And it's true. Like, I don't. There's something very. It's like when you think about that, you could just like breathe, like, oh, God, it's not in my hands. Okay. I'm still gonna be a good person. I'm gonna still like, help other people when I can. It's not about me. It's not self pity. It's just like one day at a time and we're gonna like, just conquer this. And journaling. I actually started journaling and it's amazing what comes out of here and onto paper. You're like, oh, wow. So it's been a year of re parenting, rediscovering and understanding, like how I want to live my life moving forward.

Nava Kavlin (24:07)

I love that. I love that. Also starting with nature, because we have this belief in the Baha' I faith that nature is an expression of the will of God, not like the only expression, but an expression. I don't know exactly what that means, but when I contemplate on, like, when I think about that, sometimes I'll think about like, okay, so that means there's like metaphors in nature that teach us about God. Like, if you think about like the diversity in nature, then that must teach us that, like, our Creator loves diversity. So we shouldn't be like, so hateful of things that are different. Like, we shouldn't be so afraid of that. And you know, obviously, like so many more lessons, but I think that that's like a beautiful way to start that connection. Yeah. And I love what you were saying about like continuing the relationship even when you're angry, because every relationship has its highs and lows. So why wouldn't your relationship with God also have its highs?

Amber Childers (24:49)

I want a divorce. Yeah.

Nava Kavlin (24:52)

But, you know, you got to stick through it.

Amber Childers (24:54)

Yeah. Yeah. It's. It's. It's hard. And I, like, I find. I'm not joking. Like, one of the things that I love to do is I go out after when I wake up, Riley, for school, I go sit outside and I watch the birds and I listen to the birds and I watch. I have one particular squirrel. His name's Alvin. My kids Think I'm nuts. Okay.

Nava Kavlin (25:14)

You can tell it's what it is.

Amber Childers (25:16)

Yes. And I could tell by the way.

Nava Kavlin (25:18)

She made him a sweater.

Amber Childers (25:19)

And he. Yeah, right. And he jumps and, like, this squirrel is hysterical. Like, he keeps me so entertained. But, like, I find beauty in that. I find God in that. And I'm like, if you go and look at a flower and, like, the most beautiful pink flower, to me, I say, there's no way that this color in this flower happened by accident. Like, there's something here, and it doesn't have to be. It's a God of your understanding. Right? So for me, I'm like, there's a creator that, like, makes mint, and the mint smells so good and is so good for you. There's lavender that you could rub in between your fingers. And when you smell it, it just does something to my nervous system that's, like.

Nava Kavlin (26:15)

That's really moving, Amber. That made me emotional.

Amber Childers (26:19)

Yeah. Thank you, Pe.

Penn Badgley (26:28)

Do you have a first crush or first love or first heartbreak that was particularly formative for you?

Amber Childers (26:38)

Mm. I would say this guy named Lance, and he was actually Mormon, and he was my first kiss, and it was on a rooftop and it was raining.

Nava Kavlin (26:56)

Oh, my gosh.

Amber Childers (26:57)

Wow. Classic.

Sophie Ansari (26:59)

That is.

Penn Badgley (27:00)

So you were in Spider Man?

Amber Childers (27:02)

Pretty much, yeah. Yeah, I lived. I lived that. And I think he broke my heart.

Nava Kavlin (27:12)

Lance?

Amber Childers (27:13)

Yeah. Yeah. Shame on Lance. I think he tried to follow me on Instagram like, seven or eight years ago, and I'm like, yeah, of course they all back.

Sophie Ansari (27:25)

How did he break your heart?

Amber Childers (27:27)

I think that, you know, it was a love triangle. You know how it goes. There's always, like, a girl that has, like, bigger boobs. I was super flat chested. Like, I didn't have any boobs in high school, and it was not nice. My parents were also really intimidating. So, like, and my dad always had, like, a. A cop haircut, even though he wasn't a cop. So people always assumed that, like, you know, my dad worked for the sheriff's department or something. And so I think it was just a little bit of, like, my parents intimidating boys. And my dad would be like the classic, like, what's your intention with my daughter? I'm like, dude, we're in middle school. Come on. But we stayed really good family friends for a long time. And, you know, it's so funny, like, thinking about those emotions, like, when someone breaks their heart at that age, it's the world is it just. Your world is over. Like, you don't want to go to school, you want to change your name, you want to change your hair color. Like, you want to, like, just leave the country. So ultimately, that's what Lance did. Lance broke my heart.

Sophie Ansari (28:48)

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Penn Badgley (31:30)

All right, so let's just, let's just real talk, as they say, for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say. Now that, that dates me, doesn't it? But no real talk. How important is your health to you? You know, on like a 1 to 10. And I don't mean the, in the sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like, you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want to get sick when you have responsibilities. I know myself. I'm a householder. I have, I have two children and two more on the way. A spouse, a pet, you know, a job that sometimes has its demands. So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm, that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so honestly, I turn to Symbiotica, these, these, these, these physical vitamins in these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I, I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with the three that I use. I use, I use the, the, what is it called? Liposomal vitamin C and it tastes delicious, like really, really good. Comes out in a packet. You put it right in your mouth. Some people don't do that. I do it. I think it tastes great. I use the liposomal glutathione as well.

Amber Childers (32:55)

Morning.

Penn Badgley (32:56)

Really good for gut health. And although I don't need it, you know, anti aging. And then I also use the magnesium L Threonate, which is really good for, I think, mood and stress. I sometimes use it in the morning, sometimes use it at night. All three of these things taste incredible. Honestly, you don't even need to mix it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com podcrust for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com podcrushed for 20% off. Off plus free shipping.

Nava Kavlin (33:31)

Okay, we have one other classic question, which is can you remember a particularly embarrassing or awkward moment from middle school or high school?

Amber Childers (33:41)

Oh, gosh, that's A hard one for me. I don't. I would. I don't know if I have one.

Sophie Ansari (33:49)

Not even on, like, your. On your. Any of your sports teams or. I feel like that for some reason.

Amber Childers (33:54)

I mean, I think a lot of the girls.

Penn Badgley (33:57)

She was phenomenal. She wasn't having awkward moments. She got a scholarship.

Sophie Ansari (34:00)

Like, I was sports kids because I suck.

Amber Childers (34:05)

I think a lot of the girls, during especially high school, were starting to really experiment with one another. Like, all the girls were like, oh, maybe I'm a lesbian. And I. I remember I was not. I very much into men, but some of my best friends were, like, always trying to slip in and just give a hug or a kiss. That was just a little too uncomfortable. And I'm like, bro, hands off. I know we play a contact sport, but there's boundaries here. So I think that would probably be the most embarrassing thing. And they were.

Penn Badgley (34:45)

I mean, so just to be clear, though, the most embarrassing thing in high school for you was that you were straight?

Sophie Ansari (34:49)

Yeah. No, that is actually very relatable.

Amber Childers (34:55)

I don't know. I just. I think, like, I know I had a couple, like, really bad face plants, like, playing flag football.

Sophie Ansari (35:05)

Yeah.

Amber Childers (35:06)

Tripping on your face. And any of those little things that, like, now as adults, we would look back and be like, that was hysterical. We just exaggerate everything. All of the emotions in middle school and high school are like, we're just so dramatic. At least I was so dramatic. I don't know. And maybe that's why I'm an actor. I just put it all into my work.

Sophie Ansari (35:25)

No, I think so. I. Last night, I was at a dinner for my husband's family, and he has some cousins who are like, one of his cousins, I think is. I think she's in eighth grade, and she was just belting. She has a pretty good voice, but she was just going around the house singing super loud, like, we're all doing other things. And you could tell she was, like, looking to see if anyone's gonna say anything to her. Like, she's waiting for someone to be like, wow, you have an amazing voice. And I was like, that is so classically middle school and that age. And I was like, I'm sure I did things like that, but I wouldn't. My body, my mind protected me from remembering them in that way, But I don't think it's just you. I think that age group is just.

Amber Childers (36:09)

Dramatic and, oh, 100% for me, I was on. I wanted to be a singer before I got into acting, and I would Stand on our coffee table and, like, have a guitar and put Shania Twain in, like, this massive TV that we had. Like, the old school, like, not the flat screen, like, the big ones. And I would sing and I would make everyone come into the. I was like, there's a concert. And sometimes I would pass out tickets. And I was like, there's a concert at five o' clock tonight. And so, like, I literally would just torture the fuck out of my family for hours. I'm like, no, we're doing a whole thing. This is not a one song and done. This is, like, a whole set that we're doing. So cute. Yeah. I was performing at a very, very.

Penn Badgley (36:48)

Young age, so give us just that a snapshot of that transition that you made. It sounds like, towards the. Was it towards the end of high school that you. That you, you know, you were about to accept the scholarship to go to school for golf, and you got this role on All My Children. Is that right?

Nava Kavlin (37:07)

How did you book it?

Amber Childers (37:09)

So I had booked a role when I was much younger for All My Children. And my family was like, we're not uprooting our family, moving to New York. So I just kept auditioning, and then another role came about to play Colby Chandler on All My Children. And I remember I flew back to New York to do the screen test, and. And for whatever reason, like, I knew, like, you just. Sometimes you just know. You just know. It's knowing. I was like, watch. I'm gonna book this. Watch. And I had already signed papers, like, I'd already accepted the scholarship to go play. And then when I booked in, my parents were like, I can't believe they said this. This is so wild to me. They were like, well, you're gonna be 18 this summer. You kind of like, we'll let you do what? Make this choice yourself. And so I was like, all right, peace. I'm out. So I called the coach. I was like, listen, thank you so much for the opportunity, but I just, you know, my heart has always been in acting. I love the game of golf, but I know I could play it until I'm 80 years old. I don't know if I'll get another opportunity like this to experience not only, like, my dream, but living in a city where, you know, there's just so much different walks of life and culture. And, like, it was more. I feel like my soul was, like, craving that at that point. So I respectfully and gratefully, like, gave my scholarship back to the university and I graduated early. I went to all my Teachers. I was like, hey, guys, guess what? I booked a role. And they were all so supportive. I was like, I need to take all my finals early. And at this point, I didn't even care if I failed them. I was like, I'm done. And I passed. I graduated with a diploma, and then I came back. I walked, and I flew back to New York and started working since I was 17, which is wild to me.

Penn Badgley (39:08)

So sports was never even. You didn't want it at all as a plan B? You were really just kind of waiting. It sounds like you were waiting until an opportunity came through with acting.

Amber Childers (39:19)

Yeah, yeah, I was. I was. And now, like, now looking at the business and where we are, there's like, no, there's not much waiting, right? I mean, we all. We've all are in the business in various forms, but now you. That formula doesn't necessarily work. You actually have to, like, you know, go out and sometimes create the work for yourself. But I'm. I'm so grateful that I had that. That drive. And still to this day, I love what I do. I love what I do. It's, like the funnest job in the world. And if I. I always treat, like, every job like it's my last job and I'll never book again because there's. There's that possibility. And so. But, you know, knock on marble. I've. You know, I've had a great career, and I'm so grateful that I get to show up every day and do what I love. Then I did Dickie Roberts, former child star with David Spade, and then All My Children came. Gosh, what did I do? I did a Stephen Frears movie. I did We Are what We Are with Julie Gardner. Gardner. And how did you book the Master?

Nava Kavlin (40:32)

That's like an incredible. An incredible.

Amber Childers (40:35)

I auditioned, and it was just one of those ones where I was like, I love period pieces. That's like my favorite. I love doing period. If I could do, like, a period piece for the rest of my life, I would. It's just fun, right? You just. The way, you know, you set playlist, and you really dive into the history of that time, and it's really transformative and beautiful. And the way you speak and the way you present yourself in the scene, it's just. It's. For me, it's something that I've always craved. I did Aquarius with Sarah Gamble, who created you. That was the first project. I worked with her on that. And I love the 60s. Oh, my God. I played Susan Atkins, who was a Complete crazy person.

Penn Badgley (41:21)

To put it mildly. I mean, she's one of the most infamous acolytes of Charles Manson. That's a big role. And that was a big. I mean, I feel like. Especially because it led into you. I don't know exactly the process you went through to play Candace, but it sounds like Sarah already knew you and just wanted to bring you in for that.

Amber Childers (41:44)

Yeah. Initially, I had completely forgot about that audition. So wait, I wanted to go back to your question about the master. I had auditioned, and that was probably the longest, most stressful process I had heard through the business. Like, Paul takes his time. There's this, you know, you just go in and be yourself. And I went in and I remember auditioning with him on a couch, and it was my scene with Joaquin Phoenix, and it ended up being like a full frontal nudity scene, which is wild to me. And I just. Paul's amazing. He's such a. Like, great. He wasn't intimidating. He made the audition super comfortable. And like. And then it was like two months. So every time a manager and agent would check in, they're like, casting would say, like, oh, you're. You know, your picture's on the wall with another actor and we're just deciding which is like, that's so.

Nava Kavlin (42:46)

Yeah.

Sophie Ansari (42:46)

So intense.

Nava Kavlin (42:47)

That's a mind fuck.

Amber Childers (42:48)

Yeah. Yes. And I'll never forget when I booked it, I was in La Quinta, like, just having a weekend with my kids, and they're like, you booked it? And I was sitting outside and I was like, this is just insane. And, like, I didn't realize at the time how important that movie was going to be for my career. And, you know, even. Even so, I actually ran into Rami Malik the other day and. Which I haven't seen him in years. And we just. It was the funnest job I had ever worked on. But it was also so terrifying because everyone was saying, like, Paul will fire you at any time. Like, any time, and he will recast you. It doesn't matter how many days he's into the shoot. Like, you better show up and suit up and be the best damn actor you could be. And so for me, I was, like, terrified of this. And there's like, famous stories in Hollywood of this, but the nicest guy, he's like the best director. I learned so much. Like, Amy Adams was my stepmom and Philip Seymour Hoffman, which I'm so thankful that I got the opportunity. Opportunity to work with him was. And that's my goal as an actor, always to work with people that are. Or surround myself with people that are better than me. Because I want to learn. I would never want to feel like when I walk on set that I know what I'm doing. I want to have confidence in the preparation of the scenes and knowing where I'm going with my character. But I love learning. And learning is the best place to be. Especially on set when you have all these amazing actors that have done incredible work. And I'm like, I don't feel worthy to be here. Like, there's a little imposter syndrome, you know, at that point, I'm just curious.

Sophie Ansari (44:39)

What your process was like then to get onto you, which you were in with Pen, of course.

Amber Childers (44:44)

Yeah. So I remember I was actually going to do. I was doing a voiceover job and I had kind of forgot about the audition. But, like, didn't know 100%. Cause I didn't have the materials with me. And I remember my agent calling me and they're like, hey, are you gonna go in and read for you? And I was like, sure, sure, yeah. Like, do you think that they have extra sides? Like, they're. Oh, I miss going into rooms and auditioning, Pen. I don't know. Do you?

Penn Badgley (45:15)

Well, I haven't auditioned in a very long time because I've been, like, on. I've been on this show.

Amber Childers (45:21)

Yeah, of course. But, like, back in the day, though.

Penn Badgley (45:24)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I totally agree with you. Earlier you said something about, you know, people who are just getting into the business now. I have no idea what kind of advice I would try to meaningfully give anybody. Because, you know, decades ago, it was. There was just. Yeah. Like, you had a chance because you could go into a room and you could be there, and the people who were casting you could see you and feel you and really hear you. And they were, you know. And like, it was often awful and kind of humiliating and painful. I really do hate auditioning. It's my least favorite part of the whole business. But there's also something strangely, as you bring it up. Yeah. It's like, I almost miss it. Almost.

Sophie Ansari (46:07)

Is that not a thing anymore? Like, now you start, the process starts on Zoom. There's no more. It doesn't start.

Penn Badgley (46:13)

You send tapes in.

Amber Childers (46:14)

You send tapes in. Yeah. And. And that, you know, that started during the pandemic. And I think everyone was kind of like, okay, this is only temporary. And now it's something, I mean, I do hear randomly. Like, oh, I went in audition, which is like a one off. But now. And I also too. I hated auditioning. It was like. But it was the adrenaline that I think now that, like, I crave. I crave the being connected and working with some of these amazing casting directors that I've known since I was 8 years old. David Rapaport, like, he's like, I'll never forget when you came in for Gossip Girl. Like, he says he has a better memory of me than when I was that age. It's the history that you have with these people. And there's also.

Nava Kavlin (47:02)

Sorry to cut you off, but I won't say who, but there's a particular actress right now who someone leaked her audition tape. It's very current for something that hasn't been cast yet. I don't know who leaked it, but people are being really snarky about it.

Amber Childers (47:14)

It.

Nava Kavlin (47:14)

And like, some, like, pop. Some, like, magazine, like usa, but it wasn't USA Today. But one of those, like, left, like, a really snarky comment, like, so and so traumatizing audition. And it's like, this is so rude and mean. And, like, this should have been private. This should have never been leaked. And also, like, you guys, as a publication have no right to weigh in on this and, like, be snarky about it. And actually, people in the comments were, like, tearing the publication down, like, saying, like, you have no right to do this to this actress. But I was just thinking, like, that's so awful that that could happen. Like, at least in the past, a bad audition would have stayed private. And, like, just between the actor and the casting directors, like, that's also something that can happen now, which sucks.

Amber Childers (47:53)

Yeah, it's a different. It's a different beast. Like, yesterday, I threw myself on tape with me recording the other lines, which I haven't done that in a long time because I usually go into a place at least to have someone to actually feel like it's an audition. But it was a Quintus Narutino movie, and I was like, I wanted to get this in, like, right away. Like, I was like, I want to be the first one in for them to see this. So it just. The world is different. Auditioning, the processes is different, but also change is really important. And I'm hoping, like, our business is going through a huge shift and change, and I think it's just the world and the economy, and hopefully it will, like, simmer down, you know, because there's a lot of starving artists. And it's not just actors. It's everybody behind the camera that is that. That are struggling right now. And I Just hope for the sake of. Of their families and their children and to be able to continue to do what they love. Because, like myself, this is all I've known, right. This is. This is my livelihood. This is what I love to do and wake up every day, and if I don't do it, that. That's a part of me that dies.

Nava Kavlin (49:05)

So you forgot the script and then you had to get the size.

Amber Childers (49:08)

Oh, yes.

Nava Kavlin (49:09)

Yeah, yeah. So keep walking us through.

Amber Childers (49:11)

Sorry. Back to that story. I have squirrel brain. So I went in and I saw Sarah and David and, oh, my God, this is bringing up so many memories. And I think this was, like, one of the scene. My audition scene. I'm trying to think of what it was, but it just felt. It just. I just felt like I walked into this character, and I think, like, sometimes you're really stretching your. Your ability as an actor when you. You're like, I don't. I'm not really connecting to this character. I always connected to Candace. I love this, like. And I think it was through a lot of difficult and hard times that I went through in my 20s that I was able to channel this, you know, Candace character and make her come alive. And. And I booked it.

Penn Badgley (49:56)

How much did you know about the character, how she fit into the show, and what was going to happen to her? At the outset.

Amber Childers (50:10)

I didn't know a lot, which I think is a blessing. I think sometimes when you go in blind and you're starting to create a character from your own understanding, and it's nice that you have the writers and the creators and the studios knowing where it's going to go. I just wanted to come, and I remember reading the book on the plane to New York because I hadn't read the book yet. And they're like, try to read it. And I saw it was like a crash course on the, you know, on the plane ride. I think, over time, you know, because we. Candace, when she first came in, it was like, you know, hearing about her. Right. And hearing. But not having a good understanding of what happened to her or believing possibly, you know, what Jo was saying happened to her. And then in the second season, you really see, like, her side of the story. Right. And I love that. I loved how they developed this character. And then you get completely blindsided, obviously, by the death of her.

Penn Badgley (51:17)

Do you recall how different she is from Candice in the book? I don't really. I know that there's a lot of differences. I don't remember if there. Does he mention much about Candace in The book.

Nava Kavlin (51:27)

In the book, she stays dead. Right. Like, there's no. She doesn't get killed by love. So she's not the one who.

Penn Badgley (51:32)

Well, that's definitely true. Yeah.

Amber Childers (51:34)

Yeah.

Nava Kavlin (51:35)

So she. It's amazing. Cause Candice is part of, like, two. I mean, you. Has pulled off some pretty epic plot twists, but I feel like bringing back Candace and exposing love as a murderer are two of the greatest, and you're part of both of them is really cool. And I'm curious. I'm particularly curious what it was like for you to film the scene where Victoria kills you. What was it like to prep for it? What was it like to shoot it? And sort of to keep that secret and the fan reaction, sort of that whole process for you?

Amber Childers (52:05)

It was exciting, except for I knew I wasn't coming back. Yeah, I gotta go find another job now.

Sophie Ansari (52:13)

I mean, sometimes they find a way.

Penn Badgley (52:15)

Yeah.

Amber Childers (52:17)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (52:18)

You already died once.

Amber Childers (52:22)

I remember it was in the storage unit, and I'm super claustrophobic, and that storage unit was, like, not fun to film in. So I was able definitely to bring a lot of that energy into the scene. But Victoria is so freaking good. And, like, it was. I think it was like the perfect storm in a way. I remember it, like, so that, if I remember correctly, I'm, like, running around the corner, and then she, like, comes out and stabs me with a knife. I've never been. Well, I definitely know. I personally have never been stabbed, but I don't think I've ever played a character that's ever been stabbed before. A lot of sticky blood that I remember.

Penn Badgley (53:06)

Doesn't she slice you with something she's grabbed out of the garbage?

Amber Childers (53:10)

Yeah, she, like, stabs me with, like, maybe a broken bottle or something.

Sophie Ansari (53:13)

I don't think it is a broken bottle. Right, right, right.

Amber Childers (53:15)

It's been so many years since I've actually seen that scene, but I'm glad, Sophie, you, you know.

Nava Kavlin (53:24)

Stick around. We'll be right back.

Sophie Ansari (53:29)

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Amber Childers (58:36)

Yeah.

Sophie Ansari (58:36)

So we really do love him. We have like, we've loved him at many ages.

Amber Childers (58:40)

But was he a good student?

Nava Kavlin (58:42)

He was a great student. He was a total nerd and his name was Nick back then and he was like really into theater. He was the sweetest. He was the sweetest kid.

Amber Childers (58:51)

Yeah. I love James.

Nava Kavlin (58:53)

Yeah, he's the best.

Amber Childers (58:54)

Yeah.

Sophie Ansari (58:55)

Oh yeah. I was gonna ask like, do you have any specific memories or stories from your scenes with him?

Amber Childers (59:02)

I mean I just remember how fun set was. Right. Like when you have a good Cast and it's. You enjoy waking up and, like, you get to go to work with your friends and play, and that's like. And he was so funny, and he was always making us. Do you remember that pen?

Penn Badgley (59:22)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amber Childers (59:23)

We were always laughing about. He's just the way his mannerisms are and, like, the things that come out of his mouth and, like, the whole dynamic, it's. I mean, it's like a really cast of characters, like, how they cast everybody so distinctly and how it comes together as, like, this beautiful piece of art. It's really a talent. And I actually haven't seen James in many years, but he. I think about him, and I just smile because he has such a great smile and a great laugh.

Penn Badgley (59:57)

He does.

Nava Kavlin (59:58)

So you obviously explores obsession and control, which has flavors of some of the things that you were going through in your private life. And I'm curious if you ever had to kind of detach mentally to protect your own mental health as you were playing that character.

Amber Childers (60:12)

I think I do it now more than probably what I did before. I think that's something that I always do because, you know, I do tend to play really dark, demented characters in some way, and. And so there's a lot you can't. You can never approach a character thinking, like, oh, this character is a piece of shit. Like, I. For me, I have to find empathy in some sort of backstory, right. In order for me to fully show up as this person, and I have to detach myself as Amber from. From this character. And I think something that, like, I always do, that I've always worked with my acting coach, was that you have to protect yourself. Like, energy, kind of like what we were talking about before, energy is. Is. Is very real. And I always, you know, doing like, darker scenes or things that are, like, really evil or even, like, sexual things. Like, I have to put that white light around me and protect myself so I don't go home and. And bring that energy into my. My house. So, yeah, I think, you know, I never regret anything that's happened to me in my personal life again. Like, I went through a lot of my twenties and. And not knowing up until this point in my life where I've actually done the work, realizing, because I kind of numbed myself out and, like, oh, it was okay, and made excuses for a lot of really bad behavior. Like, I've lived that now. So now I get to bring that healed trauma with me to bring it into my art. And I think that's what makes makes artists great. Is like, we could show up and use our lived experiences, but also finding a way to not make us, like, turn those experiences and reliving those. Yeah, like, that's like a. That's a huge balance and challenge. And you have to be very mindful how you show up in your day to day work and how you, you know, again when you leave set, when you enter set. So, I mean, I know Pen probably has more interesting things to say about that kind of, like, behavior because you've played Joe.

Penn Badgley (62:30)

I don't know. I mean, I don't even know by the end, to be honest. I mean, so we were working together in seasons one and two. I mean, by like four and five, I mean, I think I was struggling to remember to, like, take it seriously enough to ground it. You know what I mean? I was not ever troubled bringing it home. I'm like, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay. I actually have to make this real for a second. Okay. You know, because, like. Yeah. I mean, strangely, by the. We actually had Lee Tolan Krieger, who directed the. He directed the first episode. And I don't remember, was Candace in the first episode or was. Did she come in. I know she came in throughout later, but, like, she wasn't. There were no flashes in the first. In the pilot, right?

Amber Childers (63:18)

No.

Penn Badgley (63:18)

Okay, so then. So then I don't think you've earned. I don't think you've met Lee, at least not on this show. We had him on Pod Crushed. And one thing we were talking about was how much in the last episode, we were just laughing. He, like, he and I in particular, we were just like, laughing so much and we thought, like, should we be having this much fun while bringing this thing home in such an. And, you know, I don't know if you've seen the finale, but it's like, it's a. It's a. It's a pretty grisly ending. It's a pretty intense, pretty, like, long and arduous thing. But we managed to make it very fun somehow. And I think that's important. I don't know.

Amber Childers (63:57)

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, it's hard. It's really, It's. That actually reminds me, I was doing a CPR charity, like, class yesterday, and we were like, having to learn how to, like, give CPR and how you don't do mouth to mouth and heart attack versus cardiac arrest. And like, we were laughing through this entire thing. I'm like, this feels so wrong to be laughing because if this was a real life situation, like, nobody would be laughing Right now, but I don't know. But you learned something, and you guys had a great final season that people absolutely love. So you did something right.

Penn Badgley (64:30)

Yeah, I mean, I think it's like. I think probably. Who was it that came up? Was it Elizabeth Moss who was talking about this on our show? She was talking about how, like, you know, a show like Handmaid's Tale, she's often having a lot of fun because it's also tortured that if you're. I mean, I feel similarly. I've not heard a whole lot of other actors say this, but, like, if you're doing something really dark and twisted, you kind of have to keep everything light. Otherwise, it's just an insufferable experience, you know?

Amber Childers (65:00)

It is. I remember the movie that I did, We Are what We Are, it was about cannibalism, and we filmed it in upstate New York.

Penn Badgley (65:05)

Wow.

Amber Childers (65:05)

There was a lot of jokes at that dinner table that we were, like, keeping things real light. And it's true. So, like, I could definitely attest to what you just said. It's like, you know, it's kind of like when people say you have to. You have to, like, really enjoy some and, like, find comedy in the darker, darker parts of life. And people don't like that because they think, oh, if you go to a funeral, you have to be serious. Like, no, at my funeral, I want fucking dj and I want people to be celebrating and, like, sharing stories, and it's going to be like a fun celebration. It's like, people handle grief very differently. But I think, you know, back to your point, it's. Yeah, find humor. Like, we're just. We're playing, right? We're playing. That's what we do for a job. We go on set and we play. It's not serious.

Sophie Ansari (65:56)

So we were talking about. About play and about joy and bringing, like, lightness to a set that might otherwise be quite dark. And I actually had a question about motherhood for you. You know, you became a mother quite young at 21. And I think people talk a lot about, or at least I see a lot in the media about, like, the challenges of becoming a mother young. But I'm curious if you could tell us about some of the unseen joys of becoming a mother young.

Amber Childers (66:28)

Well, I could definitely say now that I am living very much like Gilmore Girls with my sophomore. You know, like, I. And I actually just watched the show again with my 11 year old. Yeah, I mean, there's. There's pros and cons. Like, when I was a young mom, I was also learning about myself, so I probably wasn't so rigid or. I don't want to say strict, but, like, we would have. Have fun. Like, we would. We would. It was. She was like my. London was like my little best friend. And, like, we. People would be like, oh, you guys are sisters. I'm like, nope, this is my. I'm a mom. This is my daughter. And, like, you know, I was just so young, and I was so proud. And I always knew that. Well, I didn't know I always wanted to be a mom. I really wasn't thinking in that. I wasn't sure if motherhood was something that I wanted until it happened to me. And I was like, I. As soon as I got pregnant, I was like, nope, this is it. I'm going to be a mom. And I'm so proud. And I love babies. Like, I love babies so much. If you. Anyone that knows me, they're like, don't have your baby around Amber. She'll, like, take your baby and never give your baby back. But we would dress up. We would. I mean, we went everywhere. I took London, like, she was on set with me when I was. I think when the first time she was, like, two and a half months old, I did a movie in Michigan, and she was just like my little buddy. And. And it's challenging, right, because you really don't know what you're doing. But really, do you know what you're doing Even now? If I had another baby at 36. No. Because the world's changed. If you see all the parenting books and all the things that I have around my house, people would probably laugh at me. But knowledge is power. And I think having an open mind about where you are, as long as you're growing, right? As long as you're growing as. As a human and evolving and becoming a better version of yourself, and even if that is 1%, then that's a win. And motherhood, very like being a young mom. I had Riley when I was 20, like, 4, 25. I just knew that I wanted to give London a sibling for me, you know, like, probably should. I had another baby. I don't know. I don't know exactly in that moment where my head was, but I definitely knew that there's power in sisterhood. And I grew up with two sisters, and I wanted that. So it was something that was just about having London be able to have a sibling. God forbid I was not here one day that she could walk through life with. Sweet.

Nava Kavlin (69:15)

That's really sweet.

Penn Badgley (69:16)

Well, I think that actually dovetails nicely with our our final classic question. If you could go back to 12 year old Amber, what would you say or do?

Amber Childers (69:26)

If anything, it's funny that motions. Pause for a second. I would definitely tell her I love her because I think at that age it's really hard. And we're so critical of ourselves at that age. Like we find any way. And now looking back, I wish I would have paused. I wish I would have looked myself in the eyes in the mirror. Which, by the way, like, if you've ever done that, it's so vulnerable to do as an adult and just say, like, I'm so proud of you. And like, never ever give up. Ever give up. And don't let anyone tell you otherwise because you are just perfect the way you are. Because I felt so lost inside. So I think that's what I would say. Not to be all mushy and weird.

Penn Badgley (70:20)

No, no, no.

Sophie Ansari (70:21)

We asked you to go there.

Amber Childers (70:23)

That was my kids in my head going, mom.

Penn Badgley (70:27)

That was your inner and 12 year old.

Amber Childers (70:29)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's funny. My kids are. They're brutal, man.

Nava Kavlin (70:39)

Amber, thank you so much.

Penn Badgley (70:40)

Yeah, thanks.

Nava Kavlin (70:41)

Thanks for coming on. It was so wonderful to have you.

Amber Childers (70:43)

You. Yeah, thanks for having me.

Nava Kavlin (70:47)

You can listen to Happily Ever Amber wherever you listen to your podcast. And you can follow Amber with a Y online at Amber Childers Underscore Official.

Sophie Ansari (70:59)

Podfresh is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavlin and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to La Monada Premium yet, now's the perfect time because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film into the Wild had on him. The conversation was so moving and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonade premium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com. don't miss out. And as always, you can listen to podcrust ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all.

Amber Childers (71:43)

Bye. Hey, it's Lena.

Nava Kavlin (71:49)

Waithe Legacy Talk is my love letter.

Amber Childers (71:51)

To black storytellers, artists who've changed the.

Nava Kavlin (71:53)

Game and paved the way for so.

Amber Childers (71:55)

Many of us this season. I'm sitting down with icons like Phylicia Rashad, Loretta Devine, Ava DuVernay and more. We're talking about their journeys, their creative process, and the legacies they're building every single day. Come be a part of the conversation. Season two drops July 29th listen to Legacy Talk wherever you get your podcast or Watch us on YouTube.