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Host AMA: Spirituality

Podcrushed

Wed Oct 22 2025

Summary

Podcrushed – Host AMA: Spirituality

Hosts: Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, Sophie Ansari
Episode Date: October 22, 2025

Episode Overview

This Host AMA centers around spirituality and mysticism as requested by Podcrushed listeners. Penn, Nava, and Sophie, all practicing members of the Baha’i Faith, share their personal mystical experiences, reflect on how spirituality influences their lives, and discuss the big existential questions that have shaped their worldviews. There’s plenty of warmth, humor, thoughtfulness, and a few tongue-in-cheek moments as the hosts seek to be both relatable and real with their audience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening: Why Spirituality?

[00:22] Penn introduces the topic, prompted by repeated listener queries about the hosts’ faith and spiritual experiences.
- “We're gonna try to please everybody and offend everybody at the same time.” – Penn [02:44]
The trio promises to ground the conversation in both rational thought and personal anecdote, aiming to destigmatize spiritual dialogue.

2. What Is Mysticism?

[00:57] Penn shares a Hitchens quote about mysticism’s ambiguity, riffing on both the literal and figurative “mist” that surrounds spiritual experiences.
- Sophie pokes fun: “How does it begin with is? It begins with Ms. No.” [01:34]

3. Personal Mystical Experiences

A. Sophie’s Story: A Visit from Her Grandfather

[06:09–11:03]
- Sophie describes a late-night moment when, after getting ready for bed (with humorous admissions about her pajamas or lack thereof), she sees a vivid image of her deceased grandfather in her hallway.
  - She’s initially shocked and embarrassed: “My grandfather can't see me topless!” – Sophie [08:18]
  - The encounter brings comfort: “I just had this, yeah, this image of him… and it was as if I was allowed to see him. Just for a moment, to know that it was real.” [08:23–08:35]
  - She feels her grandfather's support, especially concerning building community in her new neighborhood, and continues to sense his presence in small, affirming flashes.

B. Penn’s Story: Chaos, Placebos, and a Moment of Clarity

[11:07–17:51]
- Penn recounts the night of his stepson’s ninth birthday sleepover—nine rowdy boys, one insomniac comedian, and Penn’s struggle to help everyone get to sleep.
- A clever placebo (chamomile tea passed off as melatonin) enables calm. Penn meditates in the room, allowing everyone to settle into sleep.
- As he leaves, Penn is struck by the stretched-out potential of humanity:
  - “It seemed as though the atoms were charged. My heart lifted. Humanity’s potential seemed to stretch out eons before me… Your life. A walking prayer.” [17:18–17:51]
- It's a subtle, powerful feeling of mystical connection through a simple, everyday act.

C. Nava’s Story: Saved by a Voice During a Riptide

[17:54–27:18]
- Nava narrates nearly drowning while swimming alone in Puerto Rico. She is suddenly swept far from shore and feels herself tiring dangerously.
- She hears an internal but external-feeling voice calmly guide her:
  - “Don’t panic. God is not gonna let you drown. Just do exactly as you’re told.” [20:50]
- The guidance instructs her to float rather than swim parallel—a counterintuitive move that ultimately saves her.
- After praying and trusting the voice, she’s “carried to shore,” overwhelmed by a feeling that “Baha’u’llah carried me.” [24:03]
- Later, seeing another swimmer almost drown underlines for Nava that her experience was not only mystical but confirmed by subsequent real-world events (the technique she used was later validated in a news story).

4. What Convinced You That God Exists?

[32:35–49:01]
- A listener asks, “What convinced you that God exists?” Penn challenges the premise:
  - “It’s not the word that I would use because I don’t think anyone is ever convinced… our experiences shape us over time.” [33:49]
- He describes growing up in an agnostic environment, feeling that devotion and “worship” are human tendencies, sometimes redirected toward artists, celebrities, or technology rather than something inherently noble or transcendent.
- His encounter with spirituality intensified after early career successes didn’t bring fulfillment. Travel, reading, and particularly a trip to Colombia with the Kogi tribe (and a fortuitous friendship with a Baha’i peer) set him on a deeper journey toward prayer and belief in a higher purpose.

Memorable Quote:

“I was actually assuming that my best guess was that the cultures of the past could give us something really ancient... But I couldn’t find that authentically… Eventually I was like, what do you mean? … He was always talking to me about the link between individual transformation and social transformation and that it being a mystical one, a spiritual one.” – Penn [42:03–43:56]

5. Rationality, Psychedelics, and the Limits of Experience

Penn details his exploration of psychedelics as a means to touch the transcendent. He discovers that while they can open doors, they’re not the ultimate answer.
- “The more I pursued psychedelics seriously, the more I realized that everyone who does that becomes incoherent.” – Penn [44:17]
The conversation veers into the distinctions between psychedelic and near-death experiences (NDEs), noting that NDEs more often leave people with calm and assurance, while psychedelics are unpredictable.

6. Spiritual Metaphors and the Nature of God

The hosts discuss metaphors for God and spiritual experience—energy, source, a “resource” that can’t be exhausted—contrasting that with the scarcity and anxiety of the physical world.
Sophie reflects on how God’s constant presence is a source of comfort, not fear:
- “You always have this capacity to tap into this, like, divine source, and it's like an illimitable resource that can never be exhausted… that's so empowering and so beautiful.” [50:07]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Penn on belief:
“It’s not a rational conclusion that there is no purpose to life and that there is no God. It’s just a philosophical assumption.” [01:46]
Sophie’s intimate ghost story punchline:
“My grandfather can't see me topless!” [08:18]
Nava, on hearing the guiding voice:
“It’s not like a male voice. It’s not like the voice of God… but it was like unbidden thoughts. Like, thoughts that aren't coming from me.” [21:31]
Penn, on art as early spiritual fulfillment:
“Music was like my religion in a way.” [36:36]
Sophie, reinterpreting the presence of God:
“I also believe that God is with us 24/7. But to me it's such a source of confidence and safety and security. You're never alone.” [49:47]

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Topic | Timestamp | | -------------------------------------- | -------------- | | Opening, Listener Prompt | 00:06–02:43 | | Defining Mysticism | 00:57–01:46 | | Sophie’s Mystical Experience | 06:09–11:03 | | Penn’s Birthday Sleepover Story | 11:07–17:51 | | Nava’s Riptide Miracle | 17:54–27:18 | | What Convince(d) You of God? | 32:35–49:01 | | Spiritual Metaphors & Discussing God | 49:01–51:26 |

Tone & Style

The hosts remain candid, irreverent, and playful even as they touch on profound questions:

Humor and self-deprecation (“Bottoms only? That was my nickname in college. No, I didn’t go to college. It’s a joke.” – Penn [07:16])
A gentle respect for differing worldviews and a desire to de-mystify mysticism for their largely secular (or spiritually curious) audience
Storytelling as a central device—anchoring philosophy in lived, awkward, and sometimes hilarious experience

Conclusion

This episode deftly mixes vulnerability, humor, and profound musing on the unseen dimensions of life. The hosts share mystical stories, contextualize them within their Baha’i faith, and open a dialogue about what spiritual experiences mean in a rational world. Their accounts serve as both an invitation and an affirmation: that the search for meaning, connection, and “walking prayer” is universal, sometimes ordinary, sometimes extraordinary, always deeply human.

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Transcript

Nava (0:02)

Lemonade.

Pen (0:06)

Welcome to Punk Crushed. Ooh, you better strap in for this one. Strap in with your invisible seat belts. We're going on an invisible journey.

Sophie (0:18)

That's true.

Unknown Female Speaker (possibly a co-host or guest) (0:19)

It's all stuff you can't see, can't touch.

Pen (0:22)

Yeah, we're going to be talking about at your request. Maybe not you, the literal listener who's listening, but our metaphorical audience. The people who comment. The people who comment and ask things have asked us a lot about our faith, that all three of us are Baha'. Is. Or, you know, there's people just talking about spiritual concepts. So we're gonna do a whole episode on that. Hello.

Sophie (0:49)

Oh, hello. Did we lose all of you?

Pen (0:51)

Are you still.

Unknown Female Speaker (possibly a co-host or guest) (0:53)

I thought pen actually cut out for a second.

Pen (0:57)

Let's start with mystical experiences. This is something that people have asked us. Just think for a moment. What does that word mean to you? Mysticism. Mystical. I once heard, I think Christopher Hitchens, you know, a renowned atheist and now dead, so he knows the answer one way or another. He actually now knows the answer. And I think he would like that joke. He, he, he once said, the problem with mysticism is that it begins with is and ends with a schism. I think like a schism, maybe. I didn't quite get that part. I'm not smiling.

Sophie (1:34)

How does it begin with is? It begins with Ms. No.

Pen (1:36)

Mist.

Sophie (1:37)

Oh, I thought you said.

Pen (1:38)

That's what I said, Mist. I muttered it begins with mist. Like things aren't clear. Evidently, like what I'm saying.

Sophie (1:44)

Yeah.

Pen (1:46)

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna talk about what you might call spirituality, dare I say sometimes religion lost everybody. But we're gonna constantly be appealing to our so called rational mind because, you know, the truth is, it's not a rational conclusion that there is no purpose to life and that there is no God. It's just a philosophical assumption. With the current scientific community is actually losing its. Its unanimity on. Some of the leading physicists are, are really interested in why we cannot explain what is called the hard problem of consciousness. This is something that everybody should think about at some point in time. You always do. Why are we here? What are we doing? We're just gonna go to an ad break and be right back and tell you the answer. No, we've lost our advertisers as well, because.

Pen (15:14)

And then. Yeah. And then so I put it in. But I don't and just give him the tea. And then, and then, and then he sips some and he's just, you know, having this really sweet little nine year old moment. And I'm like, do you feel a little bit better now? He's like, yeah, I think so. He's like, are you sleepy yet? And he's like, no. And I was like, okay, well how about if I sit in the room and meditate with, with you in the dark? Will you, will, will that, would that be okay? Will you just sort of lay there until you can fall asleep? And he's like, yeah. And so we go in, he gets in his sleeping bag, the other kids are like woken up a bit and I'm like, it's okay, we're just going to sit here and I'm going to meditate. It's okay. I'm just, I'm going to leave when he falls asleep and, and I do that. And so for maybe about 20 minutes I just sit in the dark with these three kids while they fall back asleep and they do. And I haven't done a great storytelling job of telling you how absolutely chaotic it was for like an hour and a half. But, but, but, but rest assured it was because there were nine, nine year olds. And then, so as, and at this point everybody's asleep, Domino's asleep, our dog was asleep. Like everybody was asleep. And it's past midnight and I got him down like all the nine year olds. And so I, I'm, I'm closing the door and going to, to our bedroom to go to sleep. And I look back at the door and Sophie's grandfather is standing there. No, no, I, I, I, no. And this is where, like this is where there's nothing I can really say which captures it, however, at the door and in my periphery I can see all, I can see both the rooms that the kids are sleeping in, in the rooms and then the, and then the two kids or three kids on the couch. So in my vision is kind of like the nine, nine year olds on, on my stepson's ninth birthday. And I just have this, and the number wasn't important, but I'm just saying it's there. I, I just had this sense like, wow, it's possible like this, like, like every, like it seemed as though the atoms were charged. My heart lifted. Humanity's potential seemed to stretch out eons before me. You know, everything and kind of nothing happened all at once. Like silence was so loud and powerful. I felt like my nervous system settled. You know, the, the, the Effects of meditation and prayer that people talk about that science has actually, you know, proven beyond any doubt now. I just felt it in that moment, you know, and when people. Your life. A walking prayer. I felt like that was a moment, you know, it was just. It was really, really powerful.

Sophie (18:44)

And so the following week, my dad and I went on a walk, and I hit my 10,000 steps before he did. So he kept going. And I was like, I'm just gonna swim. I didn't tell him. I was just, like, waiting for him. And then I decided to take a dip. And I did notice that there was no one in the water, but I thought it was, like, the hour. And I had heard that sort of in that story with that girl. She had shared that a girl had gone out, started to drown. A guy went in to get her, and he died, but she made it to shore. And that this is, like, a common phenomenon that the person that goes in for you dies and sometimes make it out. Yeah, that does. Like, Yeah. I don't know. Maybe there's no one to get you out. Like, you then get trapped in the. In the thing. So anyway, I get in the water. I am not, like, swimming very far out at all, but for a moment, I'm like, let me just float. It's, like, so pretty it's so calm. Close my eyes, start to float. And to me, I don't know how long it was. It felt like 30 seconds. But I just hear a voice very calmly, like, hey, Nava, you should open your eyes. So I open my eyes, and I am very far from the shore. Like, I cannot believe how far I am from the shore. A current had just pulled me, and I didn't sense it, and I'm like, oh, crap. Like, I'm kind of tired, too. I just went on this long walk, but I'm a pretty good swimmer, so I'll be fine. So I try to start to swim to shore, and I can't. Like, basically, I'm in this area where the waves. In Spanish they say, donda la te chupa, which is like, where the wave sucks you. But it's basically where the waves kind of form. And so I just keep getting sucked in by a wave. And it happens three times, and I start to, like, really lose energy. And I'm, like, not breathing well, and I'm like, oh, my God, I think I'm gonna drown. Like, it just hits me like, oh, I'm gonna drown. And I said. I say a little prayer in Arabic that my mom taught me. It's a protection prayer. And as soon as I finish saying the prayer, I have, like, very clear guidance. So the first thing that is that I feel communicated to me is, don't panic. God is not gonna let you drown. Just do exactly as you're told. So I'm like, okay. And then I think, well, I should swim parallel to shore, because I know that's how you get out of a riptide. And this voice in my head is like, do not swim parallel to shore. It will not help you, and you will die. Like, you will lose energy.

Sophie (21:31)

I don't know how to explain it. It's like, it doesn't happen often, but sometimes I've had a few moments in my life. This was the most clear. I just know that someone is communicating with me, something, someone, and it's not me. So that was like. It's not like a male voice. It's not like the voice of God. I don't know who it is, but it could be an ancestor. It could be the divine. I don't know. But it was like unbidden thoughts. Like, thoughts that aren't coming from me. I know that I'm not generating them. And so anyway, so this thought is like, don't do the parallel thing. But I do. In that moment, I'm like, this is a life and death moment. Like, if this is my imagination, I'm going to die by not swimming parallel. And if this is not my imagination, I'm going to die if I swim par in parallel, because that's what the voice is telling me. So I'm like, okay, like, I'm just gonna have faith that, like, this is God. And then the next thing is just float. Like, go very still, float, let the wave spit you out, and then swim to shore as fast as you can once it has spit you out. So I'm like, okay, this is like literally the opposite of what my body. My body is not telling me to float. My body is telling me to swim. Like, fight. I'm like, okay. So I float, and then the wave spits me out. And then as soon as I start to swim, it sucks me back up again. And so I do it again, and it happens again. And I know that I have one more shot. Like, I just know that somehow I'm like, if I don't make it out this third time, I am dead. Like, I don't have the energy to keep going. And also, I'm not so scared of death. So, like, that's okay. I'm sort of like, it's okay if I die. But I do have this thought. Like, poor Tommy. Like, my dad. My dad is not gonna know. Like, what if he doesn't find my body? You know, like, all of that is happening. Oh, the other thing I forgot to mention is that there was one man on the shore and I could have done. There's like, a drowning symbol that you can do, and it's well known in Puerto Rico because It's like beach culture. And I thought about doing it, but I remembered that that guy that had gone in died for the woman. And I was like, you know what? Like, I'm either gonna live or die, but I'm not gonna bring someone else into it. Cause it's too much guilt if that happened. So I decided.

Sophie (24:50)

Edit this down if it's too long, but a month later, my dad and I are walking our dog, Oliver. He's like a brand new puppy. We're walking him on the beach. I'm gonna skip some details, but it's. It's kind of mystical how we end up in the spot of the beach that we end up. Basically, we're, like, walking the dog, and we see a man in the ocean, in the middle of the ocean, and he's drinking the drowning symbol. And I'm like, oh, my God. I grabbed my dad's arm, and I'm like, oh, my God, that man is drowning. But the man is very tall, athletic, and he's standing, but he keeps getting knocked down by the wave, and nobody is paying attention, even though he's clearly doing the symbol with his two arms. And so I, like, start calling out. I'm like, that man is drowning. In Spanish. And there happened to be two policemen patrolling the beach because it's the pandemic. And they. You had to wear masks even on the beach. So they're enforcing that. And I'm like. And so the police stop. But, like, basically nobody thinks that he's actually drowning. And I'm. I look at my dad. I'm like, daddy, I know that he's drowning. That's the exact spot I was in. And the waves are knocking him out. And I think, like, maybe I should go in the water. But I'm like, I think I'll probably die, which I'm totally okay with. But it will be so traumatic for my dad to watch me die. And my dad is too old to die. So I'm like, what do we do? And I just say that prayer, that prayer in Arabic, the one that I had said when I was in the water. And my dad says it, too. We, like, hold hands, and we both say it. And as soon as we say it, the man starts floating. He just gets on his back and floats. And then the waves spits him out. And he starts to swim, but he doesn't make it. He drowns. And then, because there had been a little group form because I had been screaming, this man is drowning. These two men jump into the water. The police go and get sort of like a floaty thing. And they go and they get him and they bring him to shore. Like, they carry him to shore, and then they do CPR on him. And he survived. But I also was like, oh, like, God carried me to shore. Like, that man is tall, athletic. You don't make it. You've lost all of your energy. So I also felt like even to see someone else do it, it was like the final piece of confirmation that I needed that that experience was real. And then the final, final piece of confirmation is that my friend Carla came over the day before I was leaving for California. We were at the beach. This didn't scare me from swimming, by the way. And I was like, carla, you want to get in the water? And she was like, actually, you know, a lot of people have been drowning in this beach. Last week, three people died outside the Marriott. Like the, you know, the current pulled them. And she said, the. Which is the big newspaper in Puerto Rico. They published an article about what to do when. When you're drowning. And they said there's two things. One is a riptide and you swim parallel to shore. But the other is where Las Olas de Chupan. And if you swim parallel to shore, it won't work. You have to float and let the waves spit you out and then swim. And I was like, I just grabbed her arm.

Pen (39:00)

And. And I. And I bought it, read the first couple pages, wasn't interested, and then. And then wouldn't pick it up again for another few years. It's called Breaking Open the Head by Daniel Pinchbeck. I became he. He was one of many who, you know, believe there's. There's a. There's. There's something about consciousness that psychedelics are. Are communicating to us. I then kind of pursued the. The. The whole notion of, you know, Gaia, like the Earth being this sacred organism, which I also still believe. I mean, it's very much like a sacred organism, as all organisms are sacred, and it is this sort of living, breathing being. But I pray to something more transcendent than that now than just our planet. But that's what I was doing then, and I was exploring, you know, every indigenous culture that I could. That I. That I could at least find, which is to say, I don't know Google about or, like, you know, Wikipedia. And how accurate is that? I was just. Just doing what I could, you know, found. Oh, and then, you know what? And so then, actually, I met this author, this Daniel Pinchbeck, who I had since come to really revere in a way. He was, like, very influential. There are a few figures I could think of as influential. He's one of them, encouraging me to sort of believe in more than just the sort of atoms and material of the physical dimension of life. And, I mean, this is many years later at this point, but, like, I basically ran into him at a bar, and my friend fell into his lap, actually, because it was so crowded in this really obnoxious bar. Really. I won't shout out the name because it's probably still there and the people who run it, but it was this obnoxious hipster bar that, like, in all my years, somehow I could not. Never had an easy time getting into. And it's like, count. And they were really, really, really, really, really exclusive. They would turn so many people away. And I would so often get in with friends just so casually. But, like, at my height on Gossip Girl, it still was like, I'm like, this fumbling idiot, and I never was gonna, like, force my way in at all. But I just remember being like, that place is so pretentious. It's full of the hipsters of the hipster.