Nava Kavlan (1:52)

But like, Joker in Spain. Like, I still am not connected.

Penn Badgley (1:56)

Yeah, I know it doesn't really. So I had a beard and I was like, well, I'm gonna have to shave. I didn't want to shave fully. I thought, this'll also be like a little bit of a disguise. A little bit of a I will be le Joker. Cause I also. I really. So maybe it's because I just didn't want to look like one of these guys who, like, loves the Joker. Well, you don't have to become like a bro thing. Yeah. You know, like, to adults, the Joker now has this completely different lore than it has for a child. And I realized that when my child asked me to be the Joker, I was like, oh, I don't like the Joker. I don't want to do that. I don't want to be that and all. So it was one of the very.

Lili Reinhart (2:38)

Few times I shaved a tear.

Nava Kavlan (2:39)

Sorry.

Penn Badgley (2:40)

Yeah. So I shaved it into a goatee and did. So he could see the little bit of the face makeup. And what I've always known about myself, which is why I've never done this before, is that if I shave a goatee, mustache combo, I look undeniably like a conquistador. Just undeniably. I don't know. I have. I wish.

Nava Kavlan (3:03)

I'm ready to catch Cristo Al Colon just coming out sailing to the Newark.

Penn Badgley (3:07)

It's uncanny. It's really uncanny. Like what? For those who are watching, you can just like, why does it look on my face? Just there's nothing else it looks like.

Nava Kavlan (3:19)

Yeah, well, it's amazing. Thank you for that. Let's just get right into our guest today.

Penn Badgley (3:24)

So today we have an actor you probably know, but also she's becoming a prolific producer in her own right. We have Lili Reinhart, probably best known for her breakout role as Betty Cooper on Riverdale. More recently for films like Hustlers and Chemical Hearts. Lily is known not just for her on screen talent, but also for her openness. She's spoken candidly about mental health and body image, the realities of growing up in the public eye. She has some very exciting projects that are in the pipeline. A few of them are the very best people. Forbidden Fruits and Fake Wedding, all stuff we get into. She's also got something that you may have heard of, a piece of ip, a book that's been turned into a film called the Love Hypothesis. And that's probably going to be a very big thing. So again, she's becoming a real producer here. Her production company's called Small Victory. This episode was a huge one. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

Sophie Ansari (4:24)

As we head into the cozy season where the days are shorter and the nights are colder. I love taking the opportunity to slow down and do something that's just for me, which is rare as a mom. So it's really important that I do it. I figured why not get a head start on this year's New Year's resolution with Rosetta Stone learning a new language from the comfort of my home in my PJs, my favorite thing to wear. Sounds like a win win to me, honestly. Rosetta Stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive methods help you naturally absorb and retain a new language from your computer or your phone, whenever it fits your schedule. I have been running into a lot of Spanish speakers recently. I mean, I was running into a lot of Spanish speakers in la and now I'm in Texas and I'm still running into a lot of Spanish speakers. And I always, you know, people kind of expect me to speak Spanish sometimes. I get that quite a bit. Like, oh, did your mom speak to you in Spanish? People aren't quite sure if I'm Latino or not. And so it is really my goal to be able to just like, seamlessly answer, yeah, I speak Spanish and to have it be the most normal thing in the world.

Lili Reinhart (5:37)

I.

Nava Kavlan (5:38)

That's.

Sophie Ansari (5:38)

There's nothing I want more than that, honestly. It's on the top of my priority list. The issue for me with having the courage to speak in a language that I'm learning is feeling like I don't have the accent down and so not feeling confident enough to just, like, go with it. That's why I love this feature on Rosetta Stone called True Accent. It's a speech recognition feature that provides real time feedback on your accent. That's always been the hardest part of learning a new language. I feel like it's tricky to just, like, nail it. You think you've got it, but you actually don't. And so I love that about Rosetta Stone. Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential. Now. PodCrush listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50 off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit RosettaStone.com PodCrush to get started and claim your 50 off today. Don't miss out. Go to RosettaStone.com PodCrushed and start learning today.

Penn Badgley (6:39)

The folks at Ollie know how special your relationship is with your dog. While your kids may grow up and head off to school, your dog stays right by your side. Just peeing right on your ankles, you know, is waiting for that next walk. Wants that belly scratch or meal time. Frankly, they just. They just have needs that don't end. Am I right? I want the absolute best for my dog. As much as I might make jokes about I resent his neediness, the truth is he's a lovely, lovely little guy. And I gotta tell you, he recently went through a bout of sickness where there was a little bit of concern he's getting older. And I was reminded just how sweet he is. One thing that has given me real confidence going through his bout was that I've switched to Ollie food. And this is no lie here. He eats Ali and only Ollie. He's extremely picky he's hardly eaten any other foods before for very long. He keeps coming back. I think it's probably because Ollie offers fresh protein packed meals that are made with real human grade ingredients. I have not tried it, but I don't need to. I can tell my dog's personal favorite. I think, I mean, of course he hasn't told me, but I. But from what I can tell, I think he loves the beef with sweet potatoes. Maybe the turkey with cranberries is a close second. He also loves the, he loves the chicken. I gotta say, he kinda loves them all, which is so rare for him. I mean it's actually, I think the only food that he's ever consistently come back for more than a period of like, you know, a month or two. He's a husky. He's extremely, he's got this like this idiosyncratic personality. He's like just controlled chaos. He's got too much intelligence and personality, too much judgment, too particular of a palate. And yet, no lie, he loves Ollie. And I love Ollie just as much because they make it easy for mealtime. Each meal is perfectly portioned and comes in mess free packaging. There's even a scoop for easy serving and a storage container so any extra doesn't stink up your fridge. Your dog's well being starts with their food and that's why Ollie delivers fresh human grade food that your dog will love. Head to ollie.com podcrushed tell them all about your dog and use code podcrushed to get 60% off your welcome kit when you. Plus they offer a happiness guarantee on the first box. So if you're not completely satisfied, you'll get your money back. That's o l l I-e.com podcrushed and enter code podcrush to get 60% off your first box. We start at 12 years old with everybody without fail. Kind of like Jennifer Hudson starts with a spirit tunnel. No matter who you are.

Lili Reinhart (9:26)

Oh no.

Penn Badgley (9:27)

For you it sounds like maybe at 10 years old you already had really convinced your mom at least to make this shift. So give us a snapshot of you at 12. Not only we do want to hear what daily life is like because I think that kind of gives some of the most insight. But also, how was this very budding artist starting to see the world?

Lili Reinhart (9:50)

12 was actually such a transformative year for me. I think it was the year that I booked my first ever legitimate thing. I booked a PBS pilot and. Pbs and yes, a pilot meaning a series. Yes. And it didn't get picked up. And it's. It's very okay that it didn't. But it was my first. You know, I grew up in Cleveland, so my mom and I were basically kind of going off of whatever Cleveland had to offer at the time, which was not that much. It was basically, if you wanted to be an actor, you signed with, like, a modeling agency and then hoped that it sort of branched into something bigger.

Penn Badgley (10:40)

I feel like it's that way in every satellite city. Like, rather, every city is a satellite city to la. Seattle was the same way for me.

Lili Reinhart (10:50)

Yeah. And so, I mean, I knew I wanted to be an actor. I was a theatrical kid, and I did community theater. And then so I joined, like, this modeling, and I somehow booked a pilot. And that sort of gave, I think, my parents and me this boost of confidence that I could somehow keep going. Because I think who's to say at that age or that time, especially for my parents, who had no idea about anything. No one in my family was an actor, so they just didn't have a North Star guiding them or anyone to really turn to. To ask question. So we were all just kind of crossing our fingers. And then I kind of just kept booking little things from there until I was 14, when I. My mom would drive me from Ohio to New York for open casting calls that she found on actorsaccess.com how long is that drive? Eight hours.

Penn Badgley (11:57)

Okay.

Lili Reinhart (11:57)

And she was doing it by herself. Cause I couldn't drive. And my. We would use my dad's frequent flyer miles if we wanted to fly, which we didn't, but we would use his hotel points to stay outside the city because it was cheaper. And then would drive into the city for a. For, like, we would do however many we could in a day. And my mom was, like, sitting in the waiting room with me once. And for some reason, David Schwimmer was there.

Nava Kavlan (12:27)

Oh, my gosh.

Lili Reinhart (12:28)

And I just remember her being like. And I was. I was. I think I was 14 or 13 at the time. And I. I wasn't familiar with friends yet. And she was like, that's David Schwimmer from France. And I was like, first of all, you can't say that when the man is three feet away.

Penn Badgley (12:48)

Like, I even knew that in a stage whisper.

Lili Reinhart (12:50)

Mom. No. I even knew at that age. I was like, you can't be doing all that. But I had no idea who he was at the time. But looking back, I was like, okay, cool. Not sure why we were in the same casting hallway auditioning for the same Thing, but it's fine.

Penn Badgley (13:07)

You guys are kind of the same type. I don't know. I see it.

Lili Reinhart (13:10)

We're in the same.

Penn Badgley (13:10)

Yeah, but what is your memory of, like, if you just. What's your first kind of gut feeling when you. Because I also can look back to 12, 13, 14 and remember what it was like going to auditions, being in a waiting room. But I was in la. You're in New York. That's a very, very, very different vibe. You know, LA can be intimidating, may because of. It's where it happens, but it's nowhere near as just physically grandiose as New York City.

Lili Reinhart (13:36)

It was. I mean, my mom was in her blue minivan and we're driving this. She's driving the streets of New York, like going, ah, you know, I don't know where I'm going. It's scary. And at that time you had MapQuest, so the directions were printed out and it was telling us how to get from this audition to this next place. And then parking the car, which is.

Penn Badgley (14:02)

Yeah, I was actually thinking parking would be a nightmare. Just a real ordeal for you story in New York.

Nava Kavlan (14:08)

Yeah.

Lili Reinhart (14:09)

I mean, you're just finding a parking garage and crossing your fingers and it's like $30 and it's just a lot. And I forget what your question was. I got caught up in the parking lot.

Penn Badgley (14:21)

Well, no, so that's part of it though, just how that, how that could feel. Because I would imagine again, just in the like $35 for a half an hour parking extravaganza. Like, I would think that it would feel like a gauntlet every time. Like every time you're like, I'm crossing Mordor to get to the ring. Like it really does. It's. It's not. It's already such a pressurized situation for such a young person. You know what I mean? I'm just curious. Did you, did you. Did you take it with maybe a surprising amount of ease because you weren't even aware of what was happening or were you like super anxious or somewhere in between?

Lili Reinhart (14:56)

I think I, at that point, it hadn't caused me existential dread yet.

Penn Badgley (15:04)

Okay.

Lili Reinhart (15:04)

It eventually did. And now, like, if I get an audition, it fills me with horror because I just hate auditions. I think from 12 to 19, I experienced 2,000 nos. And so I had a very formative time in my life. I'm dealing with this in therapy currently. Like, I grew up in an environment where I was as a child and a teenager trying to pursue my dream, being told no on a very Consistent basis. And yes, I would get little wins here and there, but they were never breakthrough anything. You know, it was like, oh my God, I booked Law and Order and not such a feat, but it was also incredibly isolating. Um, because then I would go back to school and sort of feel like everyone hated me because I was doing something different from them. And I already hated school and felt kind of like an outcast because I was really pursuing this very out of the box dream from everyone else around me. And it just felt increasingly isolating as time went on and I think like psychologically quite damaging actually as, as a kid and a teen and I think in New York at that time and even self tapes, they were exc to me. I was like, it was my, I don't want to say ignorant, but it was my, it was my optimism that I had at the time of oh my God, anything I do that I'm taping in my basement in Cleveland, Ohio is going to send me away to LA. Which is, I think when I was 12 sort of became my end goal. I wanted to end up in la and I had done an acting camp in LA and that made me kind of fall in love with the city and it was super expensive. So I felt kind of guilty to be pursuing this dream that my parents somehow just kind of had to like, they just believed in me. I think they just saw how passionate I was and they were sort of saying, okay, let's try it. And then every step of the way they were getting encouragement from people who were saying, no, your daughter's talented, this is what she should be doing. And then you're. They're also kind of blowing smoke up your ass because you're paying a thousand dollars for them to like give you a boot camp. So it's like who's to say if they actually believed in you? But I think slowly over time, due to the rejection, the moment I would get an audition, it's like my heart would sink and it would cause me a lot, a lot, a lot of anxiety. And I think I still carry that with me today. And luckily I really don't. I don't have to audition for most things anymore, which I'm super, thank God, because I'm clearly not very good at them. And they just fuel me with. I'm like, I'm never gonna give my best performance on a self tape. And it feels kind of, I don't know, Auditions are kind of evil. It's like you're, you're. It's just so much pressure. My Boyfriend, on the other hand, loves them, like has the best time of his life shooting an audition. And I'm like, we just, I don't get that. We just could not be more, yeah, different. They hang over my head. They're like a dark cloud hanging over my head. And I would always, lesson learned. But when I was 16 and I was like really getting a lot of auditions, I hadn't, you know, I had done Law and Order. What else had I done? I did like a guest role on a Fox show that was canceled. So I had done things and things were kind of like, it wasn't out of the realm of possibility that these things I was auditioning for would. I could book them, but I just wasn't. That's when it started when I was 16, I think to really become. So it felt like a pressure cooker because I knew I wanted to move to LA when I was 18, but it was sort of like the proof is in the pudding. And I wasn't booking a lot, so it was sort of, how am I supposed to kind of sacrifice my whole life? Which I decided at 12 I was going to be an actor. Didn't really, didn't want to go to college, didn't want to pursue anything else. So is this not working? Is it not working because I'm not good or because I'm not in LA or what? I don't know why. And I, I mean, I think my anxiety was really sabotaging me a lot because I looked at auditions as something to get over with as quickly as possible. Like the second I got an audition I was sort of like, mom, let's do it, let's get it out of the way. And she, she's the one who would tape with me and it would be sometimes a two hour long process because I was so hard on myself and my team really pushed me. My team, I had a great team from a really young age and they were really like, they would have me re tape a lot of auditions because they knew I was talented, but they knew auditions really scared me. So sometimes I had to like loosen up a little bit. And I think if I went back and watched an audition tape I did when I was a teen, I'd be like, oh yeah, that was like. I didn't give any thought, real thought into that. I just sort of wanted to get it out of the way. And so I think now at least I try to approach auditions when they do come in as I really try to take my time with them. I do still have the feeling of let's get this over with. But as I'm taping it, I really try to just one say, I don't want to re tape this. So let's really.

Penn Badgley (20:36)

There we go. There's the motivation.

Lili Reinhart (20:39)

Let's put a lot of. That's a great motivation. I'm like, ah, okay, I don't have to do this again if I do it well. But also, I really learned. I feel like I'm just babbling. Is that cool? Yeah.

Penn Badgley (20:51)

Yes.

Lili Reinhart (20:52)

So then I transitioned to. Then when I. I was 16, I went out to LA by myself one year for pilot season, which kind of doesn't really exist.

Penn Badgley (21:02)

By yourself anymore.

Lili Reinhart (21:03)

By myself. We found not like a babysitter, but someone who I knew through a mutual acting coach who was willing to let me sleep in her studio apartment with her. And looking back, sounds a little risky, but it. But it was actually fine. And I was there for, I think, maybe six weeks, and I was auditioning and I got like five auditions or something, and I was just. I remember I watched. I watched Grasshop Girl for the first time when I was 16.

Penn Badgley (21:37)

And was it like descending on a cloud or. Wow, this is confirming. This is what I want to.

Lili Reinhart (21:47)

And I also, at the same time, when I finished that, I think watched Breaking Bad for the first time, and.

Penn Badgley (21:54)

I was like, you were like, this is like, this isn't gonna win any Emmys.

Lili Reinhart (21:59)

Right. And then weirdly, when I went back home is when I booked something that was a reoccurring guest star on a show called Surviving Jack that was on Fox, and it had, I think, only eight episodes. And it's so weird in hindsight. Like, our finale episode got 4 million or something live viewers, which today is a lot. Yeah, yeah. But like, back then in 2013, I don't know, it was like, not good enough. Canceled.

Nava Kavlan (22:38)

That's crazy.

Lili Reinhart (22:38)

But I was a re. But I was reoccurring on that. And so I just took whatever small paycheck I was getting and put it back into the Studio City guest house that I was living in, also with sort of like a chaperone person who we had to pay to stay with me because both my parents, like, I have siblings and my dad works, and no one from my family could be with me. So it was a strange time in my life.

Penn Badgley (23:04)

I'm so familiar. There's so many configurations, you know, that's familiar to me. Can I ask where in Studio City that. Do you remember where it was?

Lili Reinhart (23:13)

I don't even know. I think it was by. I remember Driving by. Is that what it's called? Amencies. Is that the frozen yogurt place?

Penn Badgley (23:21)

I know what you're talking about.

Lili Reinhart (23:23)

And I think it was on the cusp of Valley Village. And sometimes I think I'm driving through that area and it's like sparking a memory deep inside me. And I remember, like, hearing. Hearing Lord Lorde's album for the first time. Not V Lord, not the Lord, but Lord.

Penn Badgley (23:40)

I remember hearing Lord speaking.

Lili Reinhart (23:44)

No, I heard Lor and I actually couldn't believe. I was like, this girl's the same age as me and she's, like, so successful. And I think I was pretty jealous of Lorde at that time. But I enjoyed them, but I enjoyed the music.

Nava Kavlan (24:03)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (24:04)

So throughout this period, you know, I mean, you obviously showed a lot of will and perseverance and vision where you're like. I mean, you may not have felt it at the time. You might even. I would, you know, I would understand if, like, feelings of stress, anxiety, fear could overwhelm that. And you remember it as those kinds of ways. But at the end of the day, like, it takes a lot of. Not everybody does that, you know, not everybody does it. And you did convince your parents that you wanted to do this, and they were ultimately supportive. I'm curious, like, through and feeling that anxiety of coming to either LA or New York and auditioning. So familiar to me. So I really feel you. I guess what I want to pull out a bit is like, the thread of where you did have this spark of what you loved and how. Where was that throughout this period? Where were you getting fed? You know, like, were there places?

Lili Reinhart (25:06)

It's a weird feeling because I really loved theater growing up because that was my only avenue to act. I couldn't just go be in acting, so I was in theater. And that being around, like, minded people, I think was incredibly helpful to me to see that there were other young people who were creative and wanted to spend four hours after school dancing and singing. And that was sort of like, wow, there are people like me. Because I just felt that. I didn't feel that at school. And I felt I wasn't bullied, but I felt very much like an outsider. And I never had this, like, a huge group of friends. I sort of had. My friends were all quite individual of each other. So it was a little bit hard for me to just go fit into a group. And I think, one, I had social anxiety, but two, I just kind of always have been that person. I've never really felt part of a huge group where it's like, oh, on a Friday night, I know what I'm doing. I'm with this group of people and we're doing this. It was always very separated, and I think that isolation made me really retreat into my theater world, but also just my dreams. And I was so, like. You ask where it comes from. I feel like I genuinely thought it was just written in the stars that I was gonna be an actor. And I think it was hard to explain to my grandmother, who never left the town she grew up in saying, no, Grandma, I'm not going to college because I want to be an actor. And trying to kind of explain that to someone who just is sort of like, okay, good luck. And she never once doubted me or. Or. Or said it in, like, a condescending tone. But I really think I had just this feeling inside me that I genuinely can't do anything else. And when I would try to hold down a job which I could, like, I was a sales associate at Pier 1 Imports, which doesn't exist anymore because I worked there as a sales associate. And I just.

Penn Badgley (27:25)

When you say associate, what do you mean? Like, not a sales associate? Does that mean you were. You were on the floor?

Lili Reinhart (27:31)

Yeah, I guess that's just what they call. Yeah, I don't know. That was the title. And I just. I always felt like I just was meant to be an actor. And every other little job that I had was just to get me to the other job. And I'm sure, you know, I'm sure a lot of people feel that way. And so, I mean, I moved to LA a few months after I turned 18, and I was there for six months, and it was horrifyingly miserable. And I was. Had to move a few times because I just couldn't find the right place or I had a weird roommate or something bizarre. And I was living in a shared home with, like, seven people and had my own little room, but I shared a bathroom and could just hear. Hear people shitting all day long next to me in my room. It was really kind of nice all day long.

Penn Badgley (28:22)

Sounds like they had ibs. I don't know.

Lili Reinhart (28:24)

No, it was. It was really unlocked. Yeah, it was a lot.

Penn Badgley (28:29)

It's a lot.

Lili Reinhart (28:30)

It was a lot of people. There were two bathrooms in the house, but my room was connected. It was like a Jack and Jill. It was connected.

Penn Badgley (28:36)

Oh, right. So you were.

Lili Reinhart (28:37)

To the bathroom. Okay.

Nava Kavlan (28:38)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (28:38)

That is unfortunate.

Lili Reinhart (28:39)

So I. I played a lot of white noise when I was home and from my la. My laptop. A lot of you didn't want the.

Penn Badgley (28:47)

Brown noise, did you?

Lili Reinhart (28:48)

I didn't. I did not. And, and I, I mean, I moved home after six months. I. I remember hyperventilating to my mom over Skype, not Zoom at the time. And, Or I guess, I don't know, it was FaceTime, a thing. I don't know. But I. We were Skyping and I was, I said, I just need to come home. This is not. I was like, looking at applying for a job at Universal City Walk, and it caused me so much anxiety just to the effort that it was gonna take just to sustain life in la. And then that job would take me away from being able to actually pursue what I was there to pursue. I just. The vortex, I mean, it is. And I moved home and thank God my parents opened me with locomotive. I mean, I was 18. They were like, come back, it's fine. And I went back and I went back to Pier 1 and saved up almost nothing. And then when I, just a few months after I turned 19, moved back to LA, and then like a month later, I booked Trivia.

Penn Badgley (29:59)

Oh, wow.

Sophie Ansari (30:04)

And we'll be right back. As we head into the cozy season where the days are shorter and the nights are colder, I love taking the opportunity to slow down and do something that's just for me, which is rare as a mom. So it's really important that I do it. I figured, why not get a head start on this year's New Year's resolution with Rosetta Stone. Learning a new language from the comfort of my home in my PJs, my favorite thing to wear. Sounds like a win win to me, honestly. Rosetta Stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive methods help you naturally absorb and retain a new language from your computer or your phone whenever it fits your schedule. I have been running into a lot of Spanish speakers recently. I mean, I was running into a lot of Spanish speakers in la, and now I'm in Texas and I'm still running into a lot of Spanish speakers. And, and I always, you know, people kind of expect me to speak Spanish sometimes I get that quite a bit, like, oh, did your mom speak to you in Spanish? People aren't quite sure if I'm Latino or not. And so it is really my goal to be able to just like, seamlessly answer, yeah, I speak Spanish. And to have it be the most normal thing in the world. There's nothing I want more than that, Honestly. It's on the top of my priority list. The issue for me with with having the courage to speak in a language that I'm learning is feeling like I don't have the accent down and so not feeling confident enough to just like go with it. That's why I love this feature on Rosetta Stone called True Accent. It's a speech recognition feature that provides real time feedback on your accent. That's always been the hardest part of learning a new language. I feel like it's tricky to just like nail it. You think you've got it, but but you actually don't. And so I love that about Rosetta Stone. Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential. Now. PodCrush listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit rosettastone.com podcrush to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to rosettastone.com PodCrush and start learning today.

Nava Kavlan (32:24)

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Penn Badgley (35:48)

We want to stay on Pier 1.

Nava Kavlan (35:49)

Yeah. We just really want to know what it was like to work at Pier 1. We have a couple classic questions we ask every guest. So one is if you can share about a first seminal, whether it happened when you were 12 or 15 or 19, like a first seminal infatuation. Like someone that you know was the first person you had like intense feelings for and then a first big, like heartbreak when you were young.

Lili Reinhart (36:10)

I don't even know. I feel like I was the type of person who, when I worked with someone, I got a crush on them. So when I started working More seriously at 15 and 16, I would get a crush on whoever was on set with me. Okay. And then there just so happened to be a Narcissist that I worked with when I was 16.

Penn Badgley (36:32)

You worked as a narcissist in.

Nava Kavlan (36:33)

In Hollywood?

Lili Reinhart (36:34)

Yes. Can you believe it?

Penn Badgley (36:37)

Oh, my goodness.

Lili Reinhart (36:38)

And then about 3,000 times after that, it happened again. Yeah, I'm just so lucky. I'm just like, really attract narcissist. It's kind of insane. And we could talk about that later. So. Yeah, I mean, I feel like I. I had these, like, set crushes when I was 15 and 16. And then my first heartbreak, I mean. Oh, I was. This memory just popped into my head. I remember. I think I was in fifth grade, so I would have been, like, 10. And this girl at my school, like, you know, at 10, whatever this means, flirted or something with this guy I had a crush on. And I remember, like, looking in the mirror at myself, pretending I was talking to her. And I don't think I ever did this ever again in my life. And I was talking in the mirror, and I was like, hey, pretending I was talking to her. And I was like, I can't believe you did that. You're such a bad friend. And then down the hall, my dad goes, lily. Because I didn't know that anyone was home. And my dad was like, are you okay? I'm like, yeah, I'm fine. I'm just talking to myself, talking to this girl that I hate so that I think I never. Never really did that again. But I think I was pretty upset at this girl in fifth grade. Or no, I think it was fourth grade, so even younger and more kind of sad, but cute. Not bitching this girl out because I was like, what? How old? But I was really upset with her, and I was talking to her through myself in the mirro, what I would say. And my dad heard the whole thing. Yeah.

Nava Kavlan (38:31)

That's very charming. Yeah, that's really endearing.

Lili Reinhart (38:34)

Thanks.

Nava Kavlan (38:36)

The other question we ask, if you have a memory that still makes you kind of, like, cringe a little bit, like an awkward or embarrassing memory from.

Lili Reinhart (38:45)

Middle school or high school, I think I. This is stupid. But I was in choir, and I was sitting next to my best friend in, like, the choir class, and I made a sound, and the chair made, like, a horrendous fart noise.

Penn Badgley (39:05)

Oh, God. Yeah.

Lili Reinhart (39:06)

And so. And I'm in the back of the class, and everybody turned, and I literally had to be like, it was the chair. And of course.

Penn Badgley (39:13)

Did they believe you?

Nava Kavlan (39:14)

No one believes you.

Lili Reinhart (39:15)

Absolutely not. And no one said anything about it. But I remember, I like. Like that feeling of when I'm like, holy hell, my Whole face is red. And all of these 50 kids in this class thinks, think I just ripped one on my chair in choir. I remember that being an embarrassing moment. And then my best friend was like, had tears coming out of her eyes, crying, laughing. Which also probably didn't help my case. Made me look very guilty. But I do remember that I have.

Penn Badgley (39:45)

One like that where I sneezed into my arm, like. And you're saying it like you don't believe me.

Lili Reinhart (39:51)

Oh, no. I think I was like, predicting what was gonna happen. I was like, oh, I know where this is going.

Penn Badgley (39:56)

No, no, I know, but it is amazing. Like, the fear of farting, of all things. Well, because I sneezed into my arm in, I believe, math or science class and it just made the most classic sounding giant fart noise. And the whole class laughed and I just said, no, I. I sneezed and I was sneezing.

Nava Kavlan (40:17)

I was.

Penn Badgley (40:19)

I remember feeling like I was the injustice of it. I just really felt like. But this wasn't a fart, right?

Lili Reinhart (40:28)

I felt. And everyone should know.

Penn Badgley (40:29)

I shouldn't be embarrassed. I know this is a perfect out, you know, I just.

Lili Reinhart (40:36)

I felt the same way. And there's no defending yourself when you're like around 50 school children. They just won't listen.

Penn Badgley (40:44)

So let's get back to that. This critical transition phase you have, like after. Well, not after, but coming of age is technically speaking, having just written a book about. Is technically, like 10 to 19. That's how we refer to adolescence. At least it's based on some kind of, I don't know, medical, neurological, blah, blah, blah. So if you move back to LA at 19, you are technically speaking, although of not done growing. Of course you're not done learning. Of course you still feel like a child, but in some ways you never feel older than when you're 19 and 20 years old. Just a snapshot of you moving back to LA and that period of time before you get the audition for Riverdale and what that audition was like because of how much you don't like auditions.

Lili Reinhart (41:35)

Yeah, well, I had auditioned for Riverdale like a month before at my house with my mom. I put in a tape for Betty, my. The character, and didn't hear anything. Was like, okay, well then get it. Fine. Like everything else. Moving on. And then I. I moved to la, which was always the plan. I knew I was never. When I moved back home at 18, I knew I was coming back. Like I had friends there that I'd made keep things for me. I was like, can you Keep my mirror that I bought for my room, whatever. Just like hold on to things for me if you can. And I moved back and I stayed in my friend's studio apartment. I either slept in her bed with her or stayed on an air mattress. And that was for a few weeks. And I was at the time looking for a place to live. I was looking in Hollywood at, you know, something that seemed egregiously unaffordable to me. Like a thousand dollars a month for a studio felt, felt impossible. But I kind of moved back with the knowing that I was going to have to get a job. And I kind of had accepted that. And it was hard because it just gave me anxiety to be putting attention and time into a job. I was like, why don't I have, you know, these funds that I can just live off of? Well, I just wasn't blessed that way. And I was. I signed a lease on an apartment, which was incredibly scary because at the time I just had no idea how I was going to pay for it. I had a little bit of money saved up, but not a lot, which is why I knew I needed to get a job. And my parents co signed, you know, and I was kind of just trying to start this life for myself. And my manager called and said they still haven't found their girl for, for, for this project, Riverdale. You can go in, in person now that you're in LA and see how it goes. And I did and it went really well. And then I had like four callbacks and one of them was like the big final test, which was really scary and intimidating. But I had done tests before for a few other things, so I was kind of familiar with it. And then I found out, I think later that night I, the, the same day that I tested that I, that I booked it and I didn't know what that meant at the time. I felt like, holy hell, I just have a job is kind of just how it felt and like it feel. It felt like instant validation that, yes, okay, I did the right thing by moving back to la. But I didn't know what, I didn't know what it would become or what it would, would turn into or that it would be seven years or what my life would look like in Vancouver. I had never been.

Penn Badgley (44:37)

Oh, right, right, Canada.

Lili Reinhart (44:38)

I don't think at that point I had ever left the country. So I think it was just like, I felt like a baby. I felt like a, like a real baby.

Nava Kavlan (44:50)

Lily, who did you do your first chemistry tests with?

Lili Reinhart (44:53)

I. I think I Booked it on my. On my own. I didn't. I didn't. I didn't read with anybody. I did, like, there was three scenes, and I tested in front of. You know, it's like a dark room. Everyone, it said, almost like a theater. It's set up like a theater. I walk in, there's like, a spotlight on me, and there's people sitting in these chairs, and it's really dark, and it's like a fever dream. You're like, oh, I'm out outside my body right now.

Penn Badgley (45:18)

The Warner Brothers lot.

Lili Reinhart (45:19)

Yeah, it must have been. Yeah. Because it was a WB show, and, you know, all of us, not. Not everyone who was cast, but, like, there were, like, five of us in. In this conference room, and someone had headphones in, and someone's, like, staring out the window, and, you know, we're all just, like, in our own little worlds. And. And. And then I went in and. And read, and then. And then they brought me back once I was cast to read with kj, who booked Archie and then Madelaine, who booked Cheryl. So I didn't chemistry read with any Veronica's, which is kind of surprising. But we were moving very quickly. We didn't have time. Like, it was sort of like the pilots shooting next week, and we need to cast people. Yeah.

Penn Badgley (46:08)

Was there a sense of how big it was gonna become? Because, I mean, I. You know, having been a part of a few of these kinds of things myself, I know how that works, and I know how that feeling can be there. But then I remember hearing about this and being interested in being like, the Archie Bunker comics, like, that's gonna. That becomes real and dark and sexy. I was like, that is of all concepts, is this the. And, you know, I mean. Cause clearly there was a buzz around it. So I'm curious how, like, just what perception was of that before it had hit the streets, you know, I mean, I'm just curious. Everybody was talking about that.

Lili Reinhart (46:49)

No, it was. I mean, I didn't know Archie comics. Like, I wasn't familiar with the Betty and Veronica of it all, and it was sort of like no one was even talking about Archie. They were just like, who's the Betty and Veronica? And I. But I got so many comics and read all of them, and I. I thought ignorantly, when I was sent the pilot, when it said, based off of the famous comic books, Archie comics, I was like, oh, it's about superheroes. Because for me, comic books meant superheroes. And I remember read the pilot and going, these people don't have superpowers and.

Penn Badgley (47:25)

Then weirdly, surely they're going to become mutants at some point, right?

Lili Reinhart (47:28)

Well, in season five, we do have superpowers, but. So it did happen eventually. But no, it was kind of. It was kind of beautiful in the way that it happened. We shot the pilot and then you go home and cross your fingers and hope it gets picked up. And we did. And then we moved to Vancouver and we shot. The first season was 13 episodes. And it was. Was kind of beautiful and nice because it was. We shot it all without any outside perception. We were able to shoot all 13 episodes with none of them airing at the same time. So it really felt like we had no idea. We were just having the time of our lives, or I was. At least I was a working actor and I was loving the show and I loved the character and I loved my co stars and it felt like a dream. And it was sort of just this crazy experience. We shot all 13 episodes, none of them were airing. And then I think we waited, I don't know, a couple months until the show came out, and then we kind of just had to see. And then I think we were picked up relatively quickly for a season two. But I think we. And I've had experiences where you're shooting something and people go, I think this is really special. But then I think everyone says that, that. Or at least I've learned that a lot of people say that and sometimes it's just really not true at all. But I think when I was 19, turning 20, shooting the show, I did believe it. I felt like this was a really fun show that I think people will be able to just binge, which. I don't even know if we were using that word at the time.

Penn Badgley (49:09)

Yeah, I can't remember. I think we were going to air on. Did this ever. Was this always streaming or was it ever.

Lili Reinhart (49:15)

This was.

Penn Badgley (49:16)

It was. Okay.

Lili Reinhart (49:17)

Yeah. It aired weekly on the CW and then after. And then it would air weekly on like Netflix France or something. But then the whole season it would go.

Penn Badgley (49:27)

Right. That was when you were still in that transition phase.

Lili Reinhart (49:29)

The show really didn't take off until it went on American Netflix, which was a week after our season one finale aired. And then when that happened, it was, I think, sort of the big shift in our lives. Like we weren't getting recognized everywhere we went, but we started to feel the impact of being on just like a culturally talked about television show. Yeah.

Penn Badgley (49:55)

Yeah.

Lili Reinhart (49:56)

Wow.

Julia Louis-Dreyfus (49:56)

Lily.

Nava Kavlan (49:56)

Obviously the show ran for seven seasons. I'm curious if you have a favorite storyline One that stands out to you. That was really fun to act and if you can share a behind the scenes memory that's still like really precious to you.

Lili Reinhart (50:12)

I mean a favorite. I think like I haven't watched the show since it would be weird if I had.

Nava Kavlan (50:18)

I think I just watch it every week.

Lili Reinhart (50:22)

I watch it all the time. No, I mean I think like the beginning seasons are very, are very precious to me. One because I think we look like babies to me. That was 10 years ago. I think the season one feels like this like little perfect thing. And so I think whatever happened in season one feels very close and near and dear to my heart because it was all done without outside perception. We were so baby eyed and like taking all of it in and we weren't. No one knew who we were and we didn't have any pressure really. And so it felt really special in that sense. So it's not really a particular storyline. I think it's just more the energy that I felt Shooting season one felt just really, really special. And like it doesn't really ever feel like a season one again. Once you go past that, that makes sense. And then I think just I have memories of having lunches in my trailer with my co stars. I think we, we were all picked up out of our lives. None of us lived in Vancouver, the, you know, the series. We moved there and had to sort of rely on each other. And I became really close with Mache and Amic who played my mom in the show. And during COVID when we had to go back to shoot and we had to quarantine for two weeks and then we couldn't leave the country while we were shooting, she and I just would have these dinners and movie nights together at her apartment or mine. And that felt really special. It was sort of like, like the, the circumstances of the show being in Canada. None of us were from Canada. And then also shooting during COVID at some points where you couldn't leave sort of London.

Penn Badgley (52:17)

What season was Covid?

Lili Reinhart (52:19)

5.

Penn Badgley (52:20)

Okay.

Lili Reinhart (52:21)

Okay. I think. Yeah. So we were really deep in there. But that's when I feel like we all just really had to like band together. And there was no flying home for a long, for a long weekend. It was this is where you are until you go home for Christmas party break. And then every time I would go home for something I would get Covid and not be able to leave my house. So my, my like breaks at, at home in LA were just me being incredibly ill, which was kind of ironic in Story of my Life A little bit.

Nava Kavlan (52:56)

Stick around, we'll be right back.

Julia Louis-Dreyfus (53:02)

Well, hi everybody. It's Julia Louis Dreyfus from the Wiser Than Me podcast. And I'm not going to talk about food waste this time. I'm going to talk about food resources. All that uneaten food rotting in the landfill, it could be enriching our soil or feeding our chickens because it's still food. And the easiest and frankly, way coolest way to put all its nutrients to work is with the Mill food recycler. It looks like an art house garbage can. You can just toss your scraps in it like a garbage can. But it is definitely not a garbage can. I mean, it's true. I'm pretty obsessed with this thing. I even invested in this thing. But I'm not alone. Any mill owner just might corner you at a party and rhapsodize about how it's completely odorless and it's fully automated and how you can keep filling it for weeks. But the clincher is that you can depend on it for years. Mill is a serious machine. Think about a dishwasher, not a toaster. It's built by hand in North America and it's engineered by the guy who did your iPhone. But you have to kind of live with Mill to understand all the love. That's why they offer a risk free trial. Go to mil.comyther for an exclusive offer.

Penn Badgley (54:30)

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Penn Badgley (58:01)

We're going to talk about other Projects. But. But I. I want to. I wanted to. I want to ask you about Helen Harper. I wonder. I know for me, when I'm working on a project that is. Maybe it's just a film or maybe it's just. It's a particular kind of show where, you know, those technical aspects, they start to melt away because there's a. There's a different environment on set because, you know, the work is so engaging and intimate and personal. I have a feeling that the juxtaposition of, say, you know, a different director for people who aren't aware about how the whole behind the scenes works. You know, you usually have a different director on every episode of a television show. These days in streaming, it's a bit different. Maybe they'll. But more or less directors come and go, you know, and it can feel very technical, utilitarian. You in Helen Harper, this is what, eight. Eight episodes?

Lili Reinhart (59:01)

Eight episodes, yeah, eight episodes.

Penn Badgley (59:03)

Written, created, written and directed by one guy who plays your brother. His name in real life is Cooper Raif.

Lili Reinhart (59:09)

Is it Rafe Rife. Yeah, Rife. Yeah.

Penn Badgley (59:11)

So he plays Hal, you play Harper. It seems like it's really meaningful to you. And I just want to say that having made a lot of television over my. Over the course of my career watching, I was able to watch three episodes. I wished I'd been able to watch more because I really love it.

Lili Reinhart (59:27)

Thank you.

Penn Badgley (59:28)

I just kept thinking to myself, in the best way possible, I was like, how did they get this made? This is not like a television show. This is really not like a television show.

Lili Reinhart (59:36)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (59:37)

And again, I couldn't mean that. And that's the best compliment coming from me.

Lili Reinhart (59:40)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (59:40)

I was like, how? Like, I get that you had, you know, once you get it made, okay, it's tough to find a distributor. Fine. But I literally was like, how did they even get this made? How did anybody pay for this? This does not feel like a TV show. It feels like a series length independent film from like 2004, which was a real golden age of independent film. So please, as much as you're willing to. To go into it, I would really love to hear how you came onto it and what the whole experience was like.

Lili Reinhart (60:07)

Yeah, I was sent it in 2022. So this was before I was about to film the last season of Riverdale and I met with Cooper and he was kind of secretive about it a little bit, keeping his cards close to his chest in a way because it was such an important project to him. And Also, it's a 300 page document so I think it's a bit daunting to ask someone because no one even reads a six page short story, let alone a 300 page script. But I had watched Cha Cha Real Smooth his. His other film at Apple and I really loved it and I loved his style of his tone of filmmaking. So I mean, I read it kind of instantly and because I loved it so much and I've said it a hundred times, it's the. Was the best thing I had ever read and I. And at that time there wasn't really a talk of, I mean, Cooper was extremely optimistic and was saying, you know, we're going to find an independ independent financier to help us shoot the show. And no one makes television this way. Like there's no independent television where you shoot an entire series and then hope it gets sold. But you know, I was on board, Mark Ruffalo was on board. And so Lionsgate tv, we had a few people read it and a few offers, which is insane. And then we went with the Lionsgate TV and so we shot it independently in la. I think it was over the course of two and a half months. So we shot it two years ago. So it kind of feels, I mean, because it took forever to sell it, which is why it was sort of a really heartbreaking, devastating. I say that, I don't. I mean it sounds dramatic, but it was a really incredible time, incredibly hard time for me last year and Cooper, where we thought this show that we felt is extremely special and emotional and what people want, maybe they don't know that they want it, but they want a show that they can connect to emotionally that maybe reflects rather than something.

Penn Badgley (62:24)

That can't actually happen.

Lili Reinhart (62:26)

Correct. And I think it felt so special and we felt so proud of it. And we, at this one point, we're trying to sell it and we sent it to everyone and they would watch it and go, this is incredible.

Penn Badgley (62:45)

Not for our platform, which is why we.

Lili Reinhart (62:48)

Which is why we can't have it. So I think it's more of just this weird perception that a lot of studios or streamers have that people don't want to take their time with things like, and I understand TV and movies are made today with the understanding that people are also going to be on their phones when they're watching it. That's just sort of a general understanding, I think that now people have, which is unfortunate and I can't even complain about it because I do it too. But this show is just like not one to watch while you're on your phone. And I think that scares people. And so it took a very filmmaker driven streamer like Mubi to buy the show. And you know, even being on a. And we were offered to be on another streamer, but they basically said, we'll put you on our streamer, we just won't promote it or give you any money or do anything with it. And we were like, okay, we're gonna keep looking. But even, you know, being on a streamer, it's still incredibly hard to get people to watch independent television. One, because they don't know what it is, and two, because they don't really know it exists because we don't have the money with which to mass promote it. And it's been sort of, we've gotten, you know, we're thankful to be on a streamer. But truly last year I almost, I mean, I wanted to quit. I really didn't want to do this anymore. I think like the industry and I have a production company like I, this is, I do this and I act and I produce and I EP and I develop for years things that I care about. And it seems like the things that I always care about the most are the things that one, never get made or two take six years and then one person at the top goes, goes, nah, not our mandate anymore. Not what we're looking for anymore. And same with Helen Harper. I think it's an incredibly emotional, beautiful show. And you know, I usually don't do this, but I do look at, you know, the letterbox reviews and I see how touched people are by it because they see their lives and their relationships reflected back to them. And I think, wow, if only streamers gave shows like this a chance to live and survive. I think it's kind of sad to have, you know, for everyone, a show, a movie comes out and the whole world goes, oh my God, this was atrocious. This was terrible. The writing was AI, the acting was bad. And it's like, well, but you, I mean, you watched it, you gave them your view. It's true. And you went and you bought the ticket or whatever. So guess what they're gonna keep doing. Exactly. And they're not gonna think that they need to support independent TV and film. But this show was really a miracle that it's even exists. And it's a miracle that it's on a streamer and it's a miracle when someone watches it because of how small it is. But I'm thankful it's out there whether anything happens to it or not. And I actually, a year ago, email old Richard Gad, who did Baby Reindeer. And I. And I said I got his email, which was kind of creepy of me and I never do that. But I was like, I just want to say. And this was in the heart of us trying to sell our show. I said, I just want to say I'm really so astounded and inspired by the fact that you were able to tell your story, because I think it's real. It's not, you know, trying to sell that show in an American market. I don't think ever would have. Maybe, like, maybe not never, but would have been very hard to sell. But. But he did it and he did it outside of the US But I just really wanted to thank him. From one just artist or producer, someone who's trying to live in this industry, one to another, say really in awe of how you were able, you were able to make your show. And I hope that we get to the, you know, that we get to do the same and we get kind of the same, same appreciation for it that you're getting for Baby Reindeer, you.

Nava Kavlan (67:14)

Know, as I was just say, I watched the finale this morning actually, and I kept thinking, this doesn't feel American. Like, which is sad because what I was really thinking is like, this feels too smart to be an American show. Like, it's too soft and it feels more like cinema verite. And the performances are so authentic. Like, it's just not stuff that, that I'm used to seeing on tv. I only have seen it in independent films and in stuff outside the U.S. so, yeah, everything you're saying, like really you can feel it as you watch it, that it's different and it's special and it's not what we think American audiences want.

Lili Reinhart (67:49)

Everybody just was there for the art of it all. And I think that's why Indy is so special usually because you're not there for the money and you're there because you want to make art. So we were all just very tapped in. I think we all had the same goal, which was we're here to bring this script to life. Life that we really care about. And we're here to. Everyone was just very tapped in. It wasn't. It wasn't. No one was just dilly dallying. Yeah, like it says there's a stupid word, but like we were all just there. No one was. We didn't have trailers. Like, no one was going off to a trailer, which I think adds so much time to a work day, by the way. It really does when you have to wait for people to come back and forth from a trailer. There wasn't that in this. We were literally. If we're shooting in a house. Aaliyah, who plays Jesse, my girlfriend in the show, she and I were sitting in a bedroom together, either talking or having our headphones in, getting ready to cry. Because that's, like, all we do in the show, which is great, but, like, we were just right there. It was kind of immediate access to your actors. And even when Mark and I are in a scene together, Betty's like 10ft away, like, just there, ready to reset and to re. Jump in. And it just felt very. People who were very present for the project. And I think that's what. That's what helped in terms of actually getting it. Getting through the shoot, because you had no time and no money. So it just took a lot of dedication from every single person. But we were. But we were there and willing to do it, even. Even though it was incredibly challenging.

Nava Kavlan (69:23)

Lily, you are, you know, you have this, like, incredible experience. Your performance is stunning. Just want to congratulate your on that. Doing this, like, small indie, don't know if it's going to get sold. And now with your production company, you landed one of the hottest pieces of IP I can think of with the Love Hypothesis. It's so highly anticipated. And I'm curious, does that introduce its own kind of anxiety to, like, bring to life something that has, like, such a dedicated fan base?

Lili Reinhart (69:51)

Sort of. What.

Nava Kavlan (69:51)

How was the experience on set? Was that ever on your mind? Did you have to, like, cast that aside? How did you land it? It just.

Lili Reinhart (69:57)

Anything you can share, I guess I kind of. I kind of realized at a certain point, I was like, oh, I've. I literally have done this with an even bigger ip, which is Archie comics.

Nava Kavlan (70:08)

Yeah, that's true.

Lili Reinhart (70:09)

At this point in my life, I really try to not listen to the background noise of people's opinions. And I didn't used to be that way. But I, you know, if I see something about myself, I. I'm the first person to scroll. Sometimes if it's funny, I'll, like, comment or, like, joke around with someone in a comment section. But usually if it's, you know, someone's opinion, like when the casting announcement came out, some people really did not like that I was playing Olive, who's the lead character in the book, and that's fine. And I knew that that was going to happen, obviously. But I don't seek out that to people talking about me. I don't want to see it. And I think. Think it's. It's not necessarily. I think if I, you know, I have my idea of who the character is, and other people are going to have a different idea of who she is when they read the book. But what I. It's my job. Like, I can't. There's so many opinions and so many people who want a very specific thing from a character that's like, from ip, and no one's ever going to get exactly what they want. And so if I'm happy and the director's happy and my. And, you know, that's what matters. And I don't. I don't think I make movies for the general public's approval. I think I make films because I want to be a part of it. And it's, I think, the only thing I can really do with my life. So that's why I'm. I'm doing it. But also, I have to care about the character, so I want to play her in a way that. That I want to play her. And some people won't like it, and that's fine. But I stand behind. I stand behind it. And I think. Yeah, I was also kind of taken aback having done, you know, something with IP before and seeing how, you know, the scale of Riverdale. But, like, this almost kind of blew me away. I didn't realize how many fans of the Love Hypothesis there were, but. But there are. And I'm sure they will be very opinionated when the movie comes out, but again, I'm just. I'm just not looking for it. I'm like, fine, say I don't care. Say what you're gonna say then. Because I. Because guess what? The movie's already made. Not gonna go back. And I can't wait.

Nava Kavlan (72:29)

I'm excited to see it.

Lili Reinhart (72:30)

And also. Yeah, okay. Thank you. Thank you. I. I am.

Nava Kavlan (72:34)

I read the book, and I was really excited when I heard you were cast. It's like, oh, she's gonna elevate. I was very excited to hear that.

Lili Reinhart (72:40)

Yeah, thanks.

Penn Badgley (72:41)

It sounds like a lot of what you're doing now is you're in an exciting new phase. I don't even want to say chapter, because chapters sound kind of small. I feel like you've really shifted towards. You're looking towards the future. You have a lot of things that you're developing, producing during the pipeline to be released. Not only do you have Forbidden Fruits, but you know, you have with your production company. Well, I'm not sure which is yours. And which are just things you're working on. But, I mean, it sounds like you.

Lili Reinhart (73:10)

Confusing.

Sophie Ansari (73:11)

Right?

Penn Badgley (73:12)

But it's cool because what you have is. You have a number of things that are, like, about to come out in the next year, it sounds like. Right. You have the very best people.

Lili Reinhart (73:18)

Yes.

Penn Badgley (73:19)

You have forbidden fruits and you have fake wedding. I mean, take your pick. Take your pick to talk about whatever you really like that is going to come out well.

Nava Kavlan (73:28)

Forbidden fruits also just have to shout out, victoria Pedretti is a friend of the pod, Friend of fame.

Penn Badgley (73:32)

That's right.

Nava Kavlan (73:33)

We love her.

Penn Badgley (73:33)

That's right.

Lili Reinhart (73:34)

Yeah.

Penn Badgley (73:36)

I know literally nothing about it. I don't know a single thing about it. So you could maybe. Why don't you introduce that concept to us?

Lili Reinhart (73:42)

Well, we're. That's scheduled, I think, to come out. I don't know if I'm allowed to say this. We'll just say 2026. We'll say 2026. It's coming out. And that we shot this year in March in Toronto. And yeah, I shot with Victoria and it was lovely. And Lola Tung from Summer I Turned Pretty and Alexandra Shipp and directed by Meredith Alloway. And. And it is a project that I was attached to for two years before we shot. And again, it's like, you know, one of my favorite things that I was so stoked to shoot. I had to wait two years to shoot it, which is like, you know, whatever. Thank God it got made. I just am happy when things get made that deserve to get made. How do I explain it?

Nava Kavlan (74:26)

It is about.

Lili Reinhart (74:27)

It all takes place in a mall and it's about a girl group of girls who work at a shop in the mall and they have sort of a witchy cult that they've formed there. And it's very. Diablo Cody is a producer on it. So if you want to think of, like, in the vein of a Jennifer's Body type of humor, that's what it is. Like, it's. It's a. It's a horror comedy. But Meredith has been saying, you know, as we've been screening it and testing it, but it's coming off as very funny. And like, in a great way, it means, like, the humor that we're using is, like, really hitting with the audience, which is great. But I think we didn't know how funny it was going to be until we were there doing it. I haven't seen it yet, so I guess there's not that much more I can say about it. But yeah, and then I did the very best people which is sort of a political thriller comedy. It was just kind of hard to.

Penn Badgley (75:27)

That last genre that surprised me. You said political thriller, thriller. I thought, I get it. Comedy, huh?

Lili Reinhart (75:32)

Yeah. Well, think that's cool. Think like Coen Brothers.

Penn Badgley (75:36)

Okay, okay, okay.

Lili Reinhart (75:37)

That helps.

Penn Badgley (75:37)

That helps.

Lili Reinhart (75:38)

So that was sort of like a comp. And. And I play this year. I went from, like, the craziest 180s of characters I've ever done, but I love that, and that's what I want to keep doing. I really. I think people will be very surprised. Seeing Forbidden Fruits and then seeing the Very Best people and then seeing the Love Hypothesis. I shot all three of those back to back this year, and they were complete turns from one character to the next. And I think that's what's fun about it. And I. And I did the very best people because it scared the shit out of me in terms of the character being so outrageously different from me and having an accent and, like, that's intimidating. And. But that shot in New York, which was great. I never really get to. I hadn't shot in New York since Hustle Wrestlers. So, yeah, I mean, I think at this point, and I do call it a chapter, but, like, it really. You know, when Riverdale ended, I was like, okay, I'm really entering a new phase of my career where I finally get to sort of support and pursue indie film, because I love indies and I. And I. It's usually what I am drawn to as a viewer. So to be able to, like, put a lot of my time into actually being in one was really exciting for me. But I think I just hope to continue doing that. I really. Some. You know, you have to think of it as a. How can I keep my career alive and, you know, stay in the zeitgeist of things and keep the needle moving in my career? But also, I would like to have fun, and I think that's really important. And sometimes people forget that. It's like, it's easy to say yes to a screw to a project because it pays well or whatever, but I'm the one who has to go shoot it for two months of my life and dedicate, you know, move my life and be away from my partner and not be at my house. And I think I really look at things through the lens of, am I going to have a good time on this? And I think that is something that right now I feel like I have the privilege of being picky because I. Because I want to enjoy myself.

Nava Kavlan (77:45)

Pen, should we go to our finale question?

Penn Badgley (77:47)

I Think so. I think so Hard left turn back to 12 years old. If you could go back to 12 year old Lily, what would you you say or do, if anything?

Lili Reinhart (77:58)

Well, I think I would probably validate the worry that I had and that I lived with constantly. Like from that age on, I think I have lived in a state of worry big time about how it's going to happen, how it's going to work, what do I need to do and kind of this constant hustle and ambition and I think I'd probably like envisioning what I looked like when I was 12. Okay, I got her. I'm like, it will work out. And you can enjoy being a kid along the way because I think I genuinely really sacrificed a lot of just childlike, I don't wanna say wonder, but like being carefree as a kid, I, I grew up very quickly and not that because anyone told me to, but because I kind of took it upon myself of, oh, I need to be a grownup to make my dreams come true. And I still think, I think I sacrificed a lot of like innocence and just being a kid because I was so ambitious and goal oriented at such a young age. And I think I just would have said, I mean, it's kind of like stereotypical but just like be a freaking kid. Go be 12 for a second and.

Nava Kavlan (79:12)

Don'T, you know, we don't get that answer often actually. So that's really refreshing.

Lili Reinhart (79:17)

Well, that's good. Yeah, I think that's, that's definitely, that's what I would say.

Nava Kavlan (79:24)

You can catch Lily Reinhart in Riverdale or Helen Harper out now on Mubi and you can follow her online at.

Lili Reinhart (79:29)

Lily Reinhardt.

Sophie Ansari (79:35)

Podcast is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavin and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to Laminata Premium yet, now's the first perfect time because guess what? You can listen completely ad free. Plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content. Like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film into the Wild had on him. The conversation was so moving and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to lemonadapremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's lemonadapremium.com. don't miss out. And as always, you can listen to podcrust ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all.

Lili Reinhart (80:19)

Bye.

Sophie Ansari (80:23)

You know, when you're just going about your busy day and a voice asks you something like why do people have crushes?

Lili Reinhart (80:30)

Or do dogs know their dogs?

Sophie Ansari (80:32)

The Brains On Podcast is here to help. Every episode answers tough questions with funny skits, cool facts, and more. It's a science show for kids of all ages. Whether you grew up with jfk, MK tv, tlc, or tmz, brainson is for you.

Lili Reinhart (80:47)

Listening may induce uncontrollable laughter and turn backseat squabbles into harmonious car trips. Find Brains On Wherever you get your podcasts.