[Rerun] Matthew McConaughey

Summary

Podcrushed [Rerun]: Matthew McConaughey

Date: September 24, 2025
Hosts: Penn Badgley, Nava Kavelin, Sophie Ansari
Guest: Matthew McConaughey

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Episode Overview

In this charming and candid episode, the Podcrushed team sits down with actor and author Matthew McConaughey for an unfiltered conversation about middle school, adolescence, heartbreak, and how those formative years shaped him into the person—and parent—he is today. With his trademark warmth, humor, and distinctive insight, McConaughey recalls stories from his own youth, explores the complexities of first love, navigating bullying, learning from his parents (especially his mythic father), and dives deep into values like honesty, resilience, delayed gratification, and standing firm in your own identity. The discussion moves fluidly from laugh-out-loud anecdotes to vulnerable reflections, all in the spirit of self-discovery.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Warm-up Banter & McConaughey’s “Charm”

• Mini Pickle Expert: The episode kicks off with McConaughey sharing, tongue-in-cheek, his top three attributes of a great pickle: firmness, coldness (“no one likes warm pickles”), and a satisfying crunch.

  “You gotta be cold. No one likes warm pickles. And... I’m a mini. I’m a mini kosher. I wanna hear that sound...not as stiff as a carrot, but close.”
  — Matthew McConaughey ([00:13])

• The hosts are all clearly swept away by McConaughey’s energy, noting how infectious and authentic he is—even over Zoom.

  “That man shines and, like, radiates...I don’t care how long it goes. I don’t care how long it goes.”
  — Penn Badgley ([03:28])

• Nava tries to play it cool, referencing a time she was "smitten" during a Rob Lowe interview, making a conscious effort not to fangirl, but admits,

  “I could not stop smiling the whole interview. My face hurt.”
  — Nava Kavelin ([02:59])

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Middle School Stories: Home, School, & Siblings

• At Age 12:

  • McConaughey was the youngest at home after his older brothers moved out. He took on more chores and responsibilities, living in Longview, Texas, with strict parents (mom especially), and little TV allowed.
  • He competed fiercely for best attendance, only missing days due to being genuinely incapacitated.

  “If you could breathe, that meant you had to go do some manual labor...You didn’t get to hang in bed.”
  — Matthew McConaughey ([07:18])

• On TV & Baseball:

  • His only real day off—wisdom teeth out—granted him rare TV time, and an epic 16-inning Cubs game sparked his lifelong love of baseball.

• Navigating School, Bullies, and a Crush:

  • As a 6th grader, he got the attention of an 8th-grade girl, prompting bullying from older boys, which he earned some respect for enduring (and with help from his older brother, who intervened directly).

  “He had pulled a Z28 and...got on the bus...‘Matthew, which ones is it?’...Never picked on me again.”
  — Matthew McConaughey ([09:50])

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Confidence, Family Lessons & First Loves

• Self-Confidence:

  • McConaughey credits his confidence to his “big, strong” family unit—an older brother, affirming mother (“You’re a catch”), and a father who stressed directness and respect.
  • He was a late bloomer physically, but felt buoyed by what he calls “earned” confidence—not bravado.

• First Love and Heartbreak ([16:09]):

  • First love struck in middle school. He recounts sweet but painful tales of being dumped soon after giving too many gifts, and later, saying “I love you” to a girlfriend who broke up the next day.
  • He candidly analyzes how these experiences fostered both caution (“gun shy”) and confusion about love’s reciprocity.

  “You probably felt that after these incidents, right?” — Penn
  “Yes, right...the ‘I love you,’...she opened up to me and said it first. Now I came back reciprocated, and we were supposed to meet in the middle and go higher...and she went. And so for her...was that a check? Got him to say ‘I love you.’ Okay, later, move on.”
  — Matthew McConaughey ([19:08])

  • He draws a distinction between skepticism (healthy) vs. cynicism (unhealthy), warning against the latter for both kids and adults.

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Masculinity, Role Models & Parenting

• Becoming a “Sir” and a Father:

  • Childhood lessons linked manhood to fatherhood, to being called “sir” (a respectful adult), carrying dignity and care for others.

  “From that day, I was like, oh, you become a father, you become a man. That’s the ultimate cool. That’s the ultimate respect.”
  — Matthew McConaughey ([23:21])

• Raising His Own Children:

  • As a dad, McConaughey strives to honor and update his parents’ approach: using “sir” and “ma’am” for respect, but also explaining why manners matter (not just tradition, but building relational “currency”).

  “You also do it because you’re going to get more of what you want in life if you do.”
  — Matthew McConaughey ([31:32])

  • On honesty:

    “My dad would rather us...admit you lie. Admit you lie...If we admit where we lie, the lies we tell ourselves, we become something much more valuable. We become good bullshitters. Now, I love a bullshitter over a liar.”
    ([34:00])

  • Discusses navigating the modern world, helping his kids sort out virtual relationships and reminders that even adults are impacted by online critique.

  • The key parenting goal, especially in the teen years: maintain access and open communication—even as kids seek independence.

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Delayed Gratification, Red Light Moments & Courage

• Greenlights metaphor: Red light moments (struggles, pain) can become “green light seeds”—opportunities for growth, courage, and wisdom.

  “When faced with the inevitable, get relative...the biggest red light in my life—my dad died...I got very courageous...I don’t have a safety net anymore.”
  — Matthew McConaughey ([42:18])

  • He emphasizes honoring painful moments by using them as springboards, not hiding from or shrinking in their aftermath.

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Writing & Creativity: Children’s Book, Poetry, and “Bullshitters”

• McConaughey describes how his book for children (“Just Because”) originated in a dream—a jingle about self-definition and resilience.

  “Just because they threw the dart don’t mean that it stuck. Just because I got some skills don’t mean there is no luck.”
  — Matthew McConaughey ([46:22])

• On poetic truth vs. factual truth:

  “Art, the image can tell more truth about the situation than the actual detailed factoid words...The facts are pretty dry sometimes. Where do you give a flower? Where do you throw a beer in there?”
  — Matthew McConaughey ([53:38])

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Intrusion vs. Invitation in Relationships

• McConaughey draws a vital distinction between being “intrusive” (pushing/forcing connection) and being an “invitation” (remaining centered, drawing others by your presence and confidence).

  “The most attractive people...never intrude, they never trespass...You become a magnet when you’re yourself and you have a place in a situation and you’re not trying to be first in line or interrupt...There's an eagerness to that that’s not as attractive.”
  — Matthew McConaughey ([58:44])

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Advice to His 12-Year-Old Self

• Don’t rush:
  • If he could go back, McConaughey would tell his 12-year-old self not to hurry to be older—every “first time” is precious and should be savored, not expedited.

  “Don’t be in such a rush to be thirteen. ...You’re going to run out of first times...And when we rush...we can become a little more callous, maybe lose a certain innocence.”
  — Matthew McConaughey ([65:13])

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Notable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On Pickles & Authenticity:

  “You gotta be cold. No one likes warm pickles. And I'm a mini kosher. I wanna hear that sound... Not as stiff as a carrot, but close.”
  — McConaughey ([00:13])

• On Enduring Heartbreak:

  “It was too much—the gifts...She broke up. I remember...sleepless nights...My mom...would come sit with us and go, let’s sit here in the pain for a minute. I know this sucks.”
  — McConaughey ([16:09])

• On Truth & ‘Bullshitting’:

  “If we admit where we lie, the lies we tell ourselves, we become...good bullshitters. Now I love a bullshitter over a liar.”
  — McConaughey ([34:00])

• On Courage After Loss:

  “My dad died...I was forced to get very courageous in my life...I don’t have a safety net anymore...You can go [shrinking] or you can go, let’s go.”
  — McConaughey ([42:18])

• On Parenting & Modern Pressure:

  “Do good reviews feel better [as a famous adult]? You damn right they do...Does a bad review affect me? Yes. Even me; I’m not immune. These are real. And you’re young, so I understand.”
  — McConaughey ([39:44])

• On Intrusive Love:

  “You become a magnet when you’re yourself...not trying to be first in line or interrupt...When we lose that partner relationship, it’s hard to get back to, but we have to...Let’s make sure we keep our friendship simple.”
  — McConaughey ([58:44])

• Final Advice to His 12-year-old Self:

  “Don’t be in such a rush to be thirteen...You’re going to run out of first times...Don’t rush because there’s only one first time, first kiss, first heartbreak. You’re gonna get ‘em for the first time. When we rush...we lose a certain innocence.”
  — McConaughey ([65:13])

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:13] — Matthew’s pickle philosophy
• [05:30] — Growing up at 12: chores, Texas, attendance
• [07:18] — School absences & baseball memory
• [09:50] — Being bullied, brother’s intervention
• [11:01] — Physical development, “late bloomer”
• [16:09] — First love and heartbreak; mother’s role
• [19:08] — Over-analyzing heartbreak, skepticism, and avoidance of cynicism
• [23:21] — Lessons in manhood: “sir,” fatherhood
• [31:32] — Parenting: updating his father’s lessons, instilling values
• [34:00] — Honesty vs. bullshitting; learning from mistakes
• [42:18] — Greenlights, red/red-light-to-green-light moments, loss of father
• [46:22] — Birth of his children’s book; poetry as conversation starter
• [49:02] — On meaning, lying, and artistic “truth”
• [58:44] — Intrusion vs. invitation in relationships
• [65:13] — Advice to his 12-year-old self

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Final Takeaway

This episode is a vibrant tapestry of humor, poignant wisdom, and signature McConaughey charm. Through tales of childhood scuffles and heartbreaks, honest reflections on fatherhood and fame, and creative musings about poetry and the art of “bullshitting,” McConaughey delivers powerful reminders to honor your story, hold onto your innocence, and “maintain access” to those you love. The conversation is rich, insightful, and, as the hosts intended, leaves listeners heartwarmed and self-reflective—with a craving, perhaps, for pickles.

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Transcript

[Nava]

Lemonade. It says Matthew is a storyteller, a tree house builder, and a pickle expert. What are the top three attributes of a great pickle? I just really want to know.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Great pickle. Firmness. Cold. I like them. You gotta be cold. No one likes warm pickles. And. And I'm. I'm a mini. I'm a mini kosher. That also sounds great. I wanna. I wanna hear that sound like a. Not as stiff as a carrot, but close.

[Penn]

Welcome to podcrust, where I'm Pen.

[Nava]

I'm Nava.

[Sophie]

And I'm Sophie.

[Penn]

And I think we could have been.

[Sophie]

Your middle school besties practicing our best. All right, all right, all right.

[Penn]

Welcome to PodCrushed. My name is Penn. I'm with my co hosts Sophie and Nava. We had Matthew McConaughey on today.

[Sophie]

All right, all right, all right.

[Penn]

That man shines and, like, radiates. What is. What is that?

[Nava]

I couldn't stop thinking about what it would have been like in person, partially because Sophie and David pranked me and told me he was coming in person. But I couldn't stop thinking about what it would have been like in person because the energy coming off of Matthew on Zoom. I was, like, blown away. I could barely handle his energy in the best way.

[Penn]

This man did not know who I was, had no idea who I was. That did not matter. By the end of the interview, he was digging in. He was digging just like when talked about pain. He gave us his all. And by the end, I'm just talking, like. I'm just like, yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I'm a bullshitter, too. Absolutely.

[Sophie]

It's infectious.

[Penn]

What in the hell? It made me want to move to the South. I've never wanted to. I can't remember when I lived in Virginia. I lived in Virginia for seven years. No recollections.

[Nava]

Yeah, I told you guys there's something great about Texas. I told you, it's Matthew McConaughey.

[Sophie]

No, it was amazing. When we told Nava, when David and I pranked her and told her that he was coming in person, I thought, successfully.

[Penn]

Like, how long did that last?

[Sophie]

It's just like, maybe. Maybe 30 seconds. I thought.

[Nava]

I believed it. I completely believed it. The reason it only lasted a few.

[Sophie]

Seconds was because she was so confident. She was like, oh, this kind of sucks. Like, this isn't a good prank.

[Penn]

Like, she just read Green Lights is why.

[Sophie]

Yeah, I thought she would be nervous, but she was like, oh, my God, I love him.

[Nava]

This is amazing.

[Sophie]

Okay, let's plan a TikTok.

[Nava]

I'm not planning a TikTok, so I have to tell her prank. No, it's great.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I like.

[Penn]

I like that the prank ended. So you didn't look bad.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You're like, oh, no. Sorry.

[Penn]

No. No TikTok.

[Sophie]

Because not doing extra work.

[Nava]

Okay. I have to say that the. There's an episode that's out Rob Lowe, and I've never gotten more dms and text messages from people who know me really well to be like, you were so smitten the whole time. Really funny. So this interview, I was like, do not be smitten in front of Matt. You need to be cool.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Like, you can't be trying to twirl your head.

[Nava]

I could not stop smiling. Yeah. But I couldn't stop smiling the whole interview. I was just like, My face hurt. I don't know if it was smitten with, like, romance. No. Romance.

[Penn]

I don't know.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I don't know.

[Penn]

I mean, maybe it's. Maybe it goes. Maybe. No, we're keep. We're keeping this because. Because you can't handle it. We're definitely keeping it.

[Nava]

Please watch.

[Penn]

I've never seen Nava turn red.

[Nava]

Please watch the video version of this banter.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Just.

[Penn]

What's happening? We're off the rails. For the first time ever, I feel like we're legitimately off the rails. And for that reason, I'm just. We are keeping this. I don't care how long it goes. I don't care how long it goes.

[Nava]

I was smitten with him as a human. That's what I was gonna say. I think I was just smitten with him as a person. Yeah.

[Sophie]

Well, good luck convincing anyone.

[Nava]

Apparently better.

[Penn]

No, that's. No, come on. I mean, no, that is probably the most. Look, we all have different qualities. He's the most charming human I can recall meeting.

[Nava]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

Yeah.

[Penn]

Who knows what that is?

[Nava]

It's true. Anyway, I hope you guys stick around and love it as much as we did.

[Penn]

And actually, as I said in the beginning of the interview, because of the strike, we just talk about life and some of his book a little bit, but really just about life. So it was nice.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Hey, it's me, Steve Burns. And I'm so glad you're here because.

[Penn]

You and I go way back, right?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. And look at us now, like, we're all grown up. We've got this new podcast where we.

[Penn]

Talk about all this grown up stuff, and there's special guests like Jamie Lee.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Curtis and Bill Nye, but for the most part, it's about you. I mean, it's always been about you. From Lemonada Media Alive with Steve burns.

[Penn]

Is coming September 17th.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Wherever you get your podcasts or you.

[Penn]

Can watch every episode on YouTube.

[Sophie]

I'm Jenna Fisher.

[Nava]

And I'm Angela Kinsey. And together we have the podcast Office Ladies. Just because we finished rewatching the Office does not mean we're going anywhere.

[Sophie]

Every Wednesday, we'll be sharing even more exclusive stories from the Office and our friendship with brand new guests. Plus, you can revisit all the Office Ladies rewatch episodes every Monday with new bonus tidbits before every episode.

[Nava]

So follow and listen to Office Ladies on the free Odysee app and wherever.

[Sophie]

You get your podcasts.

[Penn]

Let's just start at 12. Let's start at home and then go out from there. Your. Your life at home at 12.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Life at home at 12. So my hero, my brother Pat, 81, 88, 7. He's 19. He's just moved out of the house. I'm now the only child. My oldest brother Rooster's been out of the house. So my hero just moved out of the house. My dad was working a lot. I mean, my mom was doing most of the raising of me. It was clear what was expected. I mean, I just now took over all the yard duties, the weed eating and the mowing the lawn because Pat was gone. But. And we had just moved to Longview, Texas, which was a huge city to me, coming from Uvalde, 75,000 people. And we lived off in the country. I remember the days in the summer, as I wrote about in the book, were filled with daylight to sundown outside. My mom was big on. You couldn't watch. We weren't allowed much television. My mom's one liner was always, don't watch somebody. Do what you want to be doing. Get out there and go find out. Do it yourself. So the days, there's sort of a rule in our house. It was daylight. You had to be out at 12. I was well on my way. I was in second place behind a guy named Kelly Hearnsberger for best from best attendance since kindergarten. Wow. Right now, fast forward a minute. We got to the senior year. 18 years old. I had missed seven days since kindergarten. What? Kelly Hernsberger missed four.

[Nava]

Kelly.

[Penn]

So you were always. So this was something. Every year. You were perpetually in second place to this guy.

[Nava]

Wait, Matthew, I have to know what would cause you to miss a day? Seems like it would take a lot.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, well, for me. Look, you don't want to miss a day in my house.

[Nava]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Because if you could breathe. That meant you had to go do some manual labor, that you had to go do chores. You didn't get to hang in bed. And I will say this though, I remember it was a little after 12, but I got the wisdom teeth pulled, I believe. And I did get to stay at home. And for some reason I was allowed to have TCBY yogurt, which was a really special thing. Oh yeah, I had yogurt, I had me. I was on whatever the painkillers were for the tonsils. And we had just gotten cable television coming. I'd always been. We'd always been a three channel family. And when you could watch tv, it was a big deal in the house. I remember finding WGN Chicago station and the Chicago Cubs day game came on in, in Wrigley Field and It was a 16 inning, 2 to 1, pitchers due. And I got to sit there and eat my yogurt. I remember it lasts like five and a half hours. And that's when I kind of fell in love with baseball. I was like, this game's great because I was just, it was just me, my yogurt and a game on a day off from school and I had the house and your mess and whatever meds I was off to. So that's what it was like at.

[Nava]

Home.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You know, at school. What 12. Is that sixth grade?

[Nava]

Sixth or seventh?

[Penn]

Yeah, sixth.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Seventh at six. So seventh. I mean, you know, sixth is big because you're coming in, you're the youngster of the sixth, seventh, eighth graders. I did like a girl in the eighth grade who had been dating a guy who was in the eighth grade. They were the thing. But when they broke up, I did swoop in there and I remember that led to that, that guy and some of his friends working on me, picking on me on the bus ride home. But I also, because I stood up to it. I remember getting their respect because they were like, who's this kid think he is in sixth grade? You know, da da da da da. And the girl ended up saying yes. When Ash would go with me. And I remember we kind of hung out. So I kind of. It showed him up. But yet he still kind of was like, okay, well, he did it. But I remember, I remember this. It was a bus ride home and him and his buddies have been picking on me, you know, hard. The wadded up paper, bam. On the back of the head on the bus and stuff like this. And there was a bunch of them. And it wasn't, it wasn't about going and getting in a Fight or anything. It was just about putting up with it. I told my older brother who had come home from college. And the next day we're driving the bus and all of a sudden the bus driver pulls over on the side of the highway and I look out, it was my brother. He had pulled a Z28 and pulled, got out of the car, got on the bus, came back there, said, matthew, which ones is it? Which ones are they? And I pointed out Scott. Hey. My brother told him. He said, do you mess my little brother anymore? I'm messing with you. Then he went to the bus driver. I remember he said this. He must have got this from my dad. He goes, if you can't handle your, I'm gonna handle you.

[Nava]

Oh my gosh.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Never picked Tommy again. It was done. I was in. We were good. No more. No more wadded up paper balls to the back of the head for you.

[Penn]

To swoop in like that, though. I mean, you were, you. Cause the thing about this age is that kids, I have a 14 year old right now and I have a 3 year old, by the way. Kids at that age can be so different. Some of them can look like men, some of them are boys. You know, like, were you. I mean, for you to even do that, you must have been a little tall. You must have been. I mean, what was going on?

[Matthew McConaughey]

No, I mean, look, physically, I was a late bloomer.

[Penn]

Huh? Okay.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I mean, can we say the word peach fuzz on this?

[Sophie]

Yeah, yeah.

[Penn]

That's crossing a line.

[Matthew McConaughey]

That guy was the last one with that.

[Penn]

Yeah. Okay.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay. And I mean, I wasn't, you know, my, my, my, my, my inseam was always shorter than my waistline, so I wasn't long legged, I wasn't fast, I wasn't that tall. I remember I did have one pair of, I think Velcro capers had just come out, which gave me a little bit of confidence. So I had a clean pair of capers shoes that velcroed over. I had my, my two pair of JCPenney plane pockets. You couldn't have more than two pairs and you didn't get your. I remember mom saying, we will not, will not wash your jeans until they can stand up in the corner on their own. So.

[Nava]

Good.

[Matthew McConaughey]

So you wore the jeans quite a bit. I remember, I think the old roll them up at the bottom, fold over, taper roll up at the ankle in. That was cool. Which actually made my legs look shorter, but it was still cool. It felt cool at the time. No. So physically I wasn't I was, I was behind, but I mean, I was.

[Penn]

So, yeah. What was going on inside then? Because that's the. Is it. Would you call it confidence? Or would you. What would you call that?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Maybe I had confidence from having an older, older, older brother who had, you know, and taught me, and a dad who had taught me, you know, how to respectfully ask a girl to. If you, if you like him to go, what? Now, I couldn't do the same things at the 8th grade girl that I was dating could do. But then I also had mom on the other side, which gave us, me and my two brothers, a lot of confidence. I've always going, like, she always reminded us this and. And I think we'll hopefully talk about it later if we get around heartbreak. But she was always. My mom, to this day, has always been a big proponent of. Hey, you remember, you're. You're a catch. You're a catch. You respect yourself and you respect your own body. And you, you, you're the catch. Now, that doesn't hold up as well when you're sitting there asking, you're sweating and you're asking the girl to go with you. But maybe that did give me the confidence to do it in person instead of having a friend ask or write in the note. Right. You know, athletically, I just come out. I was just realizing that I wasn't big and I wasn't fast. Earlier in life, I was not fast. I was big. I was strong. I always had a big butt and big legs. So I had a really strong legs and butt. And none of the kids could tackle me in football in the backyard, I could just. They'd be hanging all off me and I was like, oh, that's what I'll do. I'll go play football because I'll be the big guy that can't go down. Well, all of a sudden, about 12, all the young kids started getting bigger than me and faster. And I remember playing linebacker and in the seventh grade and against Marshall, who was in. I was at Longview, it was a Marshall and I was playing linebacker. The offensive line on Marshalls just completely split. Our defensive line handed off to the running back, who was a twin, five foot ten and a half, 175 pounds, and he is a twin brother. And they both had beards. I remember seeing this bearded athlete come at me and I'm whatever, 5 foot 4, 1 1, 35, and I'm big eyes. And I remember seeing this beard. Well, I still got peach fuzz in other places where that, that it's supposed to grow in earlier, right? No, I'm not thinking beard. You know what I mean? I got blondes there, you know, on my legs and everywhere else. And I remember he came and ran up, and I was like, I'm not sidestepping him. And I hit him straight. And all of a sudden, next thing I remember is I came to and my teammates were picking me up, slapped me on the back. I had hit him straight up, and I had both of his shoes. He got out of my shoes, but I. I was 10 yard. He'd take me 10 yards down the field, but I had his shoes. But I slowed him down long enough for Corey, our big cornerback, to tackling 15 yards down the field. And it was a big. It was kind of a big rite of passage. I kind of blacked out for a minute, but I did hit him straight up.

[Sophie]

I remember that you mentioned being in sixth grade and being confident enough to ask out the girl who was in eighth grade, which seems like it says a lot about you in terms of how you felt around girls or how you felt around crushing an older girl. Well, just that sort of confidence we're talking about. And I wonder if you could tell. We ask everybody on our podcast to tell us about their first love and first heartbreak. And maybe that's in middle school. Maybe it happened later for you, but could you tell us?

[Matthew McConaughey]

No, it's middle school, you know, and this opens up that question. And I'm starting to go through. I think I'm on the cusp of it with my children. I've got 15, 13, and 10. So definitely with the 15 and 13, it's starting to happen.

[Penn]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You probably know it. Penn with 14. But this idea of love, that's a big word in my family. You didn't throw that word around to feel it and say it was a very, very big deal to me. And I did. I had a girlfriend. And this, this, this. I'm going to tell you the story of the first love and the heartbreak. And they're going to have a common denominator of the breakup. And they broke up with me. I went away on a. Like a field trip with a class to Madrid. And while, you know, you have an allowance, right? And what do you do with that allowance? You spend it all on something for your girlfriend that you love. Right. You don't forget everything else. They forget all the other people. They don't. They. They don't need a gift when I get back. But I got her this necklace, and then I got her this, like, crystal Trinket. And then I got like, something else and I came back and I unloaded these gifts on her. It was too much. It scared her. She broke up with me right after I'd given all these gifts. And. But you know that. But you know what it is? We've all felt it on the giving and the receiving side. It's like for whatever reason it was, it was too much the gifts. There was too many gifts. And she broke up. And I remember we crying and having sleepless nights and really having trouble getting out of bed in the morning. And I remember my mom coming back to my bed and telling me, look, I feel for you. As positive as my mom always was, she could always tell with those kids when we were really hurting and come back and sit with us and go, let's sit here in the pain for a minute. I know this sucks. I know this hurts. And to hear that. And then eventually get to now remember, you're a catch. She's going to notice what she lost and all of us then start building the confidence. But mom's always good about sitting. Let's sit in the pain right now. Your first heartbreak. That was the first one. The second one was later in middle school in the eighth grade, I met someone and it was going crazy. It was going. And she said to me, wrote me a note, and it said, I. And I was just, whoa, the feelings all the way to my fingertips. Out of my heart, I was, oh, my gosh. And two weeks later, oh, no. I said it to her. And the next day she broke up.

[Sophie]

Do you think it had to do with you sharing your feelings or coming on maybe what was too strong for her? What do you. What was it?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, it was that. But, you know, I mean, again, we're going to try and break down the. The. The science and math of love, which we know is a foolish idea thing to do anyway, because if anything, love's not really dignified. I mean, it doesn't. It doesn't. It's not fair. But the too many gifts were, I guess it was. It intimidated her. Or maybe there's that thing that we do. Young word. Oh, now I know I got you. Bye. Bye. You know, I felt that before on my side where I felt somebody give it us. Oh, well, now you just fully committed to me. Okay, had you felt that?

[Penn]

But you probably felt that after these incidents, right?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yes, right. And the I love you. She. Even though she said it first, soon as I said it, two weeks later, she broke up. And I remember that being a major heartbreak and made me very confused about, well, the. What's the love thing? What's the I love you mean? Yeah, you know, because she opened up to me and said it first, and now I came back reciprocated, and we were supposed to meet in the middle and go higher and become more full. And now she went. And so for her, you know, now I'm older, I look back and I go, that's probably how she was feeling. She was a beautiful and pretty and affluent and. And. And I was the only guy in town, you know, that she could date. And I think getting that. I don't know, I didn't study her history. Did she have a track record of getting guys in. As soon as you got him to say that word. But that. That would. That's what it felt like. That was the hinge that was like, okay, check. I felt like it was a check. Got him to say I love you. Okay, later, move on.

[Nava]

Did it make you more gun shy for, like, future relationships?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Probably. Probably. You know, and I've still to this day, you know, one of my favorite scenes, if y' all ever see it and you ever see the film adaptation. Yes.

[Penn]

It's one of my favorite movies. Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You know the scene where Nicholas Cage, his brother's talking to his brother. He plays both the characters and they're sitting the. The Chris Cooper characters and Meryl Streep are coming through the swamp down. Tell me about that girl Karen, man. They think they're about to die because you got to tell me about that girl Karen. Remember she said, you want to go to prom with me? And. And you said, yeah. And. And then all her friends lived there laughing because it was a joke. She never. She never wanted to go with you. She just wanted to dupe you. He's like, how'd you get over that so quick? And he goes, well, I loved her. He's like, I know what that she. She duped you. He goes, no, my love didn't depend on her loving me back. I unconditionally loved her. Go for it. And it was. It's a beautiful little scene. Love. Now, not one that in our youth, I think we can dare really understand. We can intellectualize it, but damn sure don't feel like that. Sure didn't feel like that to me then. It felt unfair. It felt I was scared of love. I was scared of the word. I was much more trepidation to use that word. And I backed off and looked at the people in my life that were my family and one friend that I could say, I love you. And I knew it was reciprocated no matter what. So I was very wary about when to ever. When to next say that word or share that.

[Penn]

Definitely, yeah. I mean, what we've found. So in the first season of this show, we actually had a lot of listeners submit stories. And what we got, what we found is that things like this can stick with people, maybe their whole lives. And I feel like you certainly can appreciate that. You seem to tap into the last, you know what, I don't know, decade or so, tapping into this idea that people are really in need of encouragement. You know what I mean? And I'm just wondering if. Because you have represented a certain kind of icon of masculinity. There's no doubt about it. I mean, I'm not making any estimations of how you feel on the inside, but that's, you know, that's really significant, and it's really interesting to me. And I think other people, like, what was the journey of, like, young Matthew McConaughey? Young. Young, like, boy becoming a man, you know, like what? Like, I don't know how long or short you can make that arc.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Let me tell you, one may go back just before middle school to say something was really written in my lineage, whether I chased it or not, which I didn't. Right. But. But I understood it. My dad was a big, yes, sir. Yes, ma', am, please and thank you. Sir is a man, and you had to do it. Look someone in the eye. And I remember one day meeting some more of his friends who were much taller than me and looking up and shaking their hand and going, nice to meet you, sir. Nice to meet you, sir. And the one thing that connected in my mind that day was the parking lot at Oak Forest Country Club. It was hot, sun was high, they had shades on. And I didn't. My eyes squinted as I looked at them. I remember going, oh, you know what? The one common denominator of everybody that my dad has had me say sir to is they're all fathers. And manhood meant being called to sir. And the one thing about being a man was, oh, they're all fathers. That's the one thing. They all are. So from that day, I was like, oh, you become a father, you become a man. That's it. That's the ultimate cool. That's the ultimate respect. That's when you become a sir. That's when you go from prince to king. Now, Obviously, whatever, I'm 10, 11, 12 years old. I'm not chasing, trying to be a father right away. But it was always, it got pressure tested my life throughout, in flings I had, in times where I thought I'd be single the rest of my life and times where I thought I was going to become a monk or whatever, it was always right there going, no, they don't. Don't. That's a diamond. That's a diamond. That's that, that's timeless truth right there for you, Matthew. And it never wavered. And so that's what I was always looking forward to facing. If one day I can become a father.

[Nava]

Stick around. We'll be right back.

[Penn]

All right, so let's just, let's just real talk, as they say, for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say. Now that, that, that dates me, doesn't it? But no real talk. How important is your health to you, you know, on like a 1 to 10. And I don't mean the, in the sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like, you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want to get sick when you have responsibilities. I know myself, I'm a householder. I have, I have two children and two more on the way. A spouse, a pet, you know, a job that sometimes has its demands. So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm, that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so honestly, I turn to Symbiotica, these, these, these, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I, I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with the three that I use. I use, I use the, the, what is it called? Liposomal vitamin C. And it tastes delicious. Like really, really good. Comes out in the packet. You put it right in your mouth. Some people don't do that. I do it. I think it tastes great. I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning. Really good for gut health. And although I don't need it, you know, anti aging. And then I also use the magnesium L Threonate, which is really good for, for, I think, mood and stress. I sometimes use it in the morning, sometimes use it at night. All three of these things taste incredible. Honestly, you don't even need to mix it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com podcrust for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com podcrUST for 20% off plus.

[Sophie]

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[Matthew McConaughey]

Of both, you know, and trying to ride, you know, trying to do that thing. I think that all of us try and do is just have a small ascension, be a little bit better dad than me. My dad would be a little bit better friend, be a little bit better husband, whatever those things, you know, because we learn, that's. That's what we get older for. That's. That's what we have hindsight for, the. That respect that sirs and ma', ams, we're still big on those in our household because the Old Testament way, if you're going to Go. Biblical is like, you do it because it's your elder and you better do it, show respect. Valid. Yes. But also the New Testament thing that I've added on to that is, look, guys, you also do it because you're going to get more what you want in life if you do, you know, swing the honey to the bees, to the honey. Look, you see, though? You see that? You see that person double take back at you and go, thank you, ma'. Am. Thank you, sir. For those matters that don't. Remember, that's that you're building currency in relationships with that respect. We don't use the word C A N T. Can't. That's something my dad taught me. Don't say can't. That was a bad as a cuss word. That was like taking the Lord's name in vain. You can go, I'm having trouble. Need some help? Fine. Because that's constructive. My dad was always like, that's constructive. Wow. Come to me, maybe I can help you. And if I can't help you, maybe I can find someone else who can help you. But don't say can't. I remember he'd show us how to do things when we'd say can't, and then. And then maybe days, week later, and you go, see, you were just having trouble. You'd be like, you're right. We don't. We're very. We're very delicate with the word hate. Which is another thing. That. That. That was my mom. My mom was a big sticker on that. You don't hate especially your loved ones. And I remember throwing that word out at my own birthday party about my brother. And I threw it out to try and sound like I was older because I'd heard the older kids say it. And when I said it, I knew. I. I knew I was like, oh, my. It was in Mom's. That was an ear range of Mom. I'm in. I'm in trouble. That was a dirty word about my brother. I felt guilty about it right away. And anyway, I remember getting in trouble in front of everybody at my own birthday.

[Nava]

Wow.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Anyway, that was embarrassing. You know, the big on. Big on being honest, not lying. I wrote about it in the book. But my, my, my. That especially was like, admit you lie. Admit you lie. And I talk about a lot. Then if you admit. We admit where we lie, the lies we tell ourselves, we become something much more valuable. We become good bullshitters. Now I love a bullshitter over a liar.

[Sophie]

I thought you were gonna say like an honest person.

[Penn]

Wait, wait, wait. I'm curious. What's the difference?

[Matthew McConaughey]

What's the difference? Because while I'm telling you the tall tale, I got a twinkle in mind. I just gave you a little bit of a wink that lets you know the liar sitting there going, no, I'm telling you the truth. I'm defending this. This is out. What now you're. That's lying. Come on, man. The little twinkle in the eye of, like, yes, the. The proverbial fish was only eight pounds, but go with me on this one. It was 12. That's fun. There. There. There's poetry in that. There's drama, there's leniency, There's. There's. Hey, let's jive. Let's get a vibe going here. That's something different than being a straight liar. Now, in our family, my dad would rather us. I'm going to tell that story in green lights about the pizza story. I got in trouble from him, not because I stole the damn pizzas, because I lied about and said I didn't. And like he told me, buddy, I've stolen plenty of pizzas, man. Number one, you either need to get. You need to talk to me about how to get away with it better or. And you know, what's the. Why'd you lie to me? And I remember seeing that look on his face when I got in trouble that I was. I talk about it in. In the. In the book. It was a very emotional moment because I feel like I'd let him down. I saw in his eyes a look like, am I. Where have I failed raising my son that he can't admit truth about stealing a damn pizza. Where did I fail as a father? Where he's got to feel like he's got a lie to me about that three to my face. And that was the pain that I felt of seeing the look on his face, like, what am I supposed to do? What am I supposed to do? And I always regretted that. And we talked to our kids, you know, about it. Now we're coming into those years where they're seeking their independence. There are those times where they'll say things to us and agree and maybe go off and do their own thing, make up their own mind. And so just having talks the other night about, look, there's. There's certain things I know you want to choose for yourself. Me and mom are not here to overprotect you or not here to tell you can't do that. You can do it. We're saying, hey, we've been there and know you're there and you're there in new places in ways that we haven't been. But discuss. This is a great term. My buddy Barton Ags in Austin, Texas, who's raised three, raised a few girls, moved out of the household. And he said this to me a few weeks ago, and I love this term. And I think y going to dig it. He was like, man, in these teen years, you can do one thing what? He goes, try and maintain, communicate. Yeah. Because all the stories I hear is that there's. That there. A lot of parents go through, boy, 15 to 19, zip it up, non grata. And then at 19, they come back one day and they go saying, I get it now. Thanks. You're going like. But you. It's not over that quick, man. Five years, you put me through hell. You know what I mean? So if you can maintain access, we're trying to do that now. And my parents were very old testament. You know, we. A lot of stuff. I've always said this. A lot of things I did not do as a kid that I should not have done. And I did not do them for fear of the punishment from my parents. So there, there's some validity in that fear base. At the same time, I wanna, I'm a little. I wanna lean a little more into the New Testament. I keep bringing up biblical analogies here, but I want to lean on. Lean a little more into the. Now let me show you why, if you choose to have the discipline not to do that, how it's going to serve you, how that choice, maybe that sacrifice today will give you a greater reward down the line. Now, as we all know, what's the hardest thing to teach kids? Delayed gratification. Yeah, I think they're living forever and today's the day and that's it. It's basically one of the hardest things to teach adults too. We don't like to project at all and like, make a sacrifice for a greater reward tomorrow. But boy, if I can get that where they can see like, I see, you know, we've talked to our daughter. Well, do you want to be the, you know, the, the. The girl that kisses the most guys early? Maybe most popular that year. But come eighth grade, words kind of gotten around, you know what I mean? Reputation. So to just. Again, just trying to lay out there, here's the possible consequences of your actions. Now, which one do you want to choose? And they're all trying nudes. You're trying to fit in. You go into middle school, you're trying to Fit in. What do you want to be? You want to be popular? Okay, well, let's talk about this. Popular for what? We all want to be relevant. But relevant for what is a pretty doggone question to ask ourselves and for how long term, you know, but it's hard to get children to project like, well, what's that going to mean in high school? What's that going to mean later in life? Because that's this the time to try things and fail. It's the time to stick your foot in your mouth. It's the time to ask so and so the problem when you think you're sure you got it and they say no, it's the time to be confused and come home and you know, and just we're trying to keep access. I mean, so a lot of those things are things that my father did put. Put on us and expect from us. I think Camilla and I are trying to do our best with going, realizing I don't want to be too. I don't want to be. I'm not going to be the old nostalgic parent who says the stories. Well, back when I. Man, their life has changed. It's different, it's similar, the same, but they have just so much more information coming out than we ever did, than I ever did. And you live in virtual, you have virtual relationships to talk about projection, you know, their days or the social media, their days are go well or don't go well, depending on thumbs up or thumbs down. And so we talk about, you know, what does that mean again? What, what's real and all that and what's not real. And I try to be honest with them. I go, look, I'm, I'm your dad. I'm, I've got mom, I've got family, I'm successful. Does a good review of a movie feel better to me than a bad review? You damn right it does. Does somebody writing something about me completely false, that shows up in some news feed even though I know it's completely false? Does it affect me and make me feel physiologically a little when I walk out there? Yes, it does. You would think I would be able to be immune to that. Well, no, even me, I'm not. These are real. And you're young, so I understand. Be open and accessible to share with us. Oh, this hurt. And let's talk about, let's admit it hurt and then talk about how much credence should we give it? You know, it's how much important import should we really give it? And let's Talk about it. So we're trying to maintain access, I guess, in ways that you might say are a little more lenient New Testament than my parents did, but based on a lot of the same exact values that my parents instilled in me and my brother Matthew.

[Nava]

I feel like we could talk to you for five hours. I have so many questions I want to ask you. But just while we're on this topic of do you have four more hours? Just while we're on the topic of delayed gratification. In your book Green Lights, you talk about sort of red light moments as opportunities for planting green light seeds. And I'm wondering what you've learned about, because I think in a red light moment there are like heavy feelings that can also keep you trapped or stuck. So what have you learned about sort of like moving through those emotions so that you can get to that green light season and also take advantage of the season that's present for seed planting?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, you know, it's sort of based off of the initial sort of equation I put at the beginning of the book is when faced with the inevitable, get relative. And as soon as we can be faced and we can admit and realize the inevitable, whatever happens in our life and get relative with now going forward, what's my decision making paradigm? I think the better now, biggest red light in my life. My dad died. I went through the pain, went through the morning. I still miss him. But the, the green light is I got very. I was forced to get very courageous in my life and to get courageous and finding my own identity and to put my ass on the line about what I stood for and what I stood against and, and look in the mirror and go, where you just been acting like what dad's been raising to be and where you've been really doing it. And I had to call myself out and I got very courageous, actually in his learning, his mortality, of him leaving. I was like, I don't have a safety net anymore. I don't have a crutch. And I can either go, whoa, or I can go, let's go. And I remember a sobriety of mental and spiritual sobriety coming with this, moving on where I went through. And I remember right now the world is flat. And I looked further and my peripheral vision was clear. And I was like, things that bother me and failures that bothered me before when I did sort of have 10% relying on if I really get in a pinch, he's got my back. Things that would bother me didn't bother me anymore. I just barged through things and exposed the mendacious things in my life that were like, that's not worth worrying over. And it was something about him leaving this life that did that, that made me go. Because you can go two ways. Loved one leaves life. You either shell up and go, oh, my gosh, I'm afraid to live, or you go, we got a one way ticket. We all got a one way ticket. What are we doing? Let's get up and go find out. And if. If I. If I trip and fall and screw up, f. So what? So I got, I. I tapped into that and that's when I started to take chances and seek opportunities and get much more courageous and started plant seeds that became green lights now, you know, more ethereal version of that. What I noticed later, and I would argue today to be true, is that to actually choose that and become more courageous to plant. Start planting green light seeds when you're faced with a red light is actually honoring the red light.

[Penn]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And I believe when I did that, I look back, I was like, oh, you're actually. You're honoring dad. Your dad. Matthew. If you'd have holed up and going, I had no, I'm not ready. That would not have been honoring. I'd throw myself in the ring in ways that I'd never done before without looking over my shoulder saying, hey, you got my back. Because he wasn't there to have my bag anymore. I felt like. And this is more of a recent realization about, like, oh, you're. That's. That's a way of honoring that red light in your life, putting it up on a pedestal, seeing it as painful, a harsh consequence, something you don't wish on anybody, but something you can damn sure rely on when it comes to somebody dying and then going, all right, I'm not. Shine a light on that and make this a diving board, a springboard.

[Sophie]

There's a story in the book about your seventh grade poetry competition that made me laugh out loud, mostly because your mom reminded me of my mom in that moment. But it did make me think about you as a writer. You talk throughout the book about your. I mean, it's comprised of a lot of your journal entries you've written since you were a teenager. And now you've written another book. You've written a book for children. Can you tell us a little bit about what inspired that?

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. So being a parent, depending on your parent, anybody else. Parents. You got parents?

[Sophie]

I'm pregnant. I'm going to have a baby soon.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Okay. So the prison, the lens you start looking through life through just changes. You're not shepherd at least a postman postwoman at least is one off choices you can make going I if I fail I'll get back up become no I've. I've making decisions for these dependents behind me. You know what I mean? And it's a different peripheral vision you get. So you start seeing life through that making choices through measuring consequences for your your young ones as well. That consumes my mind a lot and when something's on my mind a lot I have dreams about it. This was a dream I had and I woke up at 2:30 in the morning. I went and wrote it down. All I had was the jingle. Just because they threw the dart don't mean that it stuck. And just because I got some skills don't mean there is no luck. And I remember going in there it was a song, it was a. I woke up, I got this great Bob Dylan Diddy. And I was like, yeah, you know you're wailing doesn't mean that you're a crier. Just because I lied does not mean that I'm a liar. And it just. And so the hook was just because. And I had the beat and I just wrote from 2:30 to 6:30 in the morning, went back, got in bed, got up and looked out. I was like this is good. Wow. I was like this is fun. And I sent it to. And I was like I think this could be good for, for, for. For people young because. Because there's also a lot of verses that I that are not in this book that are for more even older people that are more, I don't know, a little more R rated that are funny for adults too. But I picked out these and I sent to my book age. He was like this could be. This would be great for a children's book. So I started sharing a bunch of the couplets with my own kids. They liked them. It started conversations that I wanted was hoping to have. They had different. Each one of them had different different take on each couplet in their own life. And when they asked me questions I had a different take than their mother had on the same couplet in their own life. So that's what I put together. It was a ditty, it was a song. And then really put it down and hopefully it's a great conversation starter between parents and youngsters.

[Nava]

Matthew, will there be an audiobook musical version of this?

[Matthew McConaughey]

I'll do the audiobook. I think I'll do it this week.

[Nava]

Amazing. Okay. I have A question about one of the couplets. Just because, I mean, it doesn't mean I'm not lying. Can you share more about that? That one really struck me.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah, well, that's the difference between a.

[Penn]

Bullshitter and a liar.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Right.

[Nava]

But in this case, the person means it. He's saying, just because I mean it doesn't mean I'm not lying.

[Penn]

Right, right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Well, this is a little goes into that. I think if you deconstruct. When is it the right time to lie, Talk about the little evident lies we talk about, you know, yes, go be honest. But if you can sit there and say something to the proverbial bad guy in the situation, that can preserve or buy you more time to preserve the good people or your family, whatever, relatively, that's a good time to, to tell fit, you know, and, and, and, and, and, and, and know you are. It's a little bit of that also, you know, that you've heard the little analogy. The grandfather and grandson, they're in the south, the tornadoes coming. The grandson drops on his knees and starts praying. It's like, get your ass scared. Prayer ain't stopping the damn tornado. We got to go to shelter. It's a little bit like, yeah, I know you told your strife to go pray for it. No, we got to take action. It leans into that a little bit. Just because I mean, it doesn't mean I'm not lying. You can mean something. It's a little bit like that. And just because I did it again doesn't mean I don't regret it. Sometimes we're like, I'll take the consequences, man. I, I'll do it again. And yep, guilty. Catch me. And that's the second time I did it. But I want that cookie so much. I'll take the damn consequences. Who took the last? That was me. Yes, I regret it because I regret what may happen to me. But it. The want, the need at the time overrode possible consequences. Sign me up. It's, it's a bit, it's a bit of that. Sometimes we just do it and we're like, I'll, I'll deal with the consequences. I'm fibbing, but I mean it. You know what I mean? It's, it's. And it ladles. It does ladle into. Sophie, what you're talking about a little of that story with the existential logic of my mother telling me, you know, this poem that she loved, his Anna Ashbury poem, if you understand that. Yes, I understand. Does it mean something, Matt? Yes, it means it to me. What does it mean? I tell her. She's like, well, there you go. Then it's yours.

[Sophie]

I'm like, well, he won the competition with that poem. I won. He had written. He had written his own poem and showed it to his mom, and she said, no, use this poem.

[Penn]

Wow.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And then it also leans into drama, poetry, symbolism, magic, reality. Sometimes, a lot of times, art. The image can tell more truth about the situation than the actual detailed factoid words about the exact mathematics of the situation. Does that mean that the art, the image is a lie? It's not really what happened. It's not factual. It's not, you know, baseline truth, facts. But you ask someone what they got from that and what they got from the. From the report, you know, and I understand a lot more from. From this. The longer. The longer machinations of what. What. What. What it says about life. So it's. It just. It just leans into that about, you know, I don't want to be such. I don't want to have to tell kids, and I don't think it's right best to tell kids. Hey, you have to. It has to be the. Because I've done it to myself. Lived in times where, like, it has to be the absolute single truth. You make sure. All of a sudden I was like, no fun to be around. I didn't have any of the BS we were talking about Pen. I didn't. I. I didn't see art and things. I couldn't make a poem, you know, make something rhyme. Because I was like, no, no, no, the facts. The facts should be just it. Well, they're pretty dry sometimes. So where do you give a flower? Where do you. Where do you. Where do you throw a beer in there? Where do you have some fun and break a sweat and go. I'm not sure. It's not as much about, you know, the reason I needed the rhyme. Thank you for the rhyme. Now. Now I can fly. Geez. All this reasoning, all this logic, especially with us passionate animals. I'm reminded every single day. Good. And I'm a big logic guy. Get off your logic eye horse. We are passionate animals. Logic is usually. Usually not the answer, especially in relationships.

[Sophie]

And we'll be right back.

[Nava]

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[Sophie]

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[Nava]

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[Matthew McConaughey]

Yeah. Well, the most attractive people I know in life, male and female, they never intrude, they never trespass. I just sent out a birthday wish to a 90 year old man, just turned 90 today, and I was telling him, one of my favorite things about you is you never trespass. They always hold sort of the constitutions here. They don't lean in. I just lost a buddy, John Chaney, at 78. And one of the most attractive things he just. People were attracted to him of all ages and sexes because he just always, he walked everywhere, he didn't run. He came into a situation, he held on all of a sudden and be the last one to speak up. And when he did, people were like, that's the idea. And it was part of it. He never got out of himself. My friend Jake Weber never does that, never leans in. And it is something very attractive. You become a magnet when you're yourself and you have a place in a situation and you're not trying to be first in line or interrupt or the first one to speak or hey, let me get in front of you. There's an eagerness to that that's not as attractive. Usually when it comes to relationships, I find I, I catch myself doing all the time. I'll be intrusive and I may be getting all the points across, but people aren't listening near as well. Because I've kind of wanted to have the right and best answer each time right away. And first that's a bit intrusive and it's a bit like, okay, but to sit back, have a listen, be present. And then all of a sudden someone goes, what's your opinion on that? And you give it. It means a lot. It's like I talk about, you know, to coaches all the time of young teams. There's the coaches that yell everything and there's the coaches that talk like this and coach. And on certain things at certain times you have to raise your voice. Well, youngsters listen a lot more to that second example because when the coach raises their voice, oh, this is an explanation, Mark. This means something in particular. The ones that's yelling all the time, they start to mute it out. They're like, I don't know what's more important than the last thing you're yelling everything. That's a bit intrusive. So, you know, it takes a certain confidence and presence to not be intrusive, to not trespass, to sit back and read the context of a room of someone else, to catch an eye, look I, I. When I first night I met Camila, I started off being intrusive. I started off waving, trying to get her attention. And I don't know to this day if she caught, if she caught my eye but chose to ignore it. But I'm glad she ignored it, because if she'd have caught my eye doing this, and I'd have followed through with, hey, we come over here. I don't know. That would have been my first boat right there. I was gonna be here now with her and the family, but evidently, if she did not catch my eye long enough for me to go, hey, can you hear my mom's voice at 12 in my ear going, yes. You don't wave this woman over to you across the room, boy, get your ass up and go introduce yourself. And I went, that's right. Now I was on the right track. Much less intrusive, much less lazy, much more respectful then to look in relationships with friends as well. You start off with great friendships when it's easy to say no. On a friendship where no's just as easy as yes, right? Hey, can you make it to this thing? No, I can't. I'm gonna. Cool. That's a great friendship. What happens? We start to get to know each other well enough. We start to, the next time out, we're like, hey, it's no big deal. You know, it's easy either way. I just want to let you know if, you know if you could. And that's why you so many words. But you and I were so good on yeah, no. And now we're starting to kind of explain ourselves. And now we start to go like, well, I, no, I'm not going to make it. I can't make it. Well, I can make it, but I don't want it. And all of a sudden we're explaining too much and the relationship's getting complicated. We're like, ah, can we go back to when it was just easy when, yeah, it was either yeah or no, and I wanted to, and you didn't put pressure on me and I didn't have expectations on you, and it was just a yes or no. We were cleaning cool man talk. So much less explain. So much less let each other down proverbially easier. So much less. And I wasn't let down when you said no because I didn't need you to say yes to, to filming those. You know, when we lose that partner relationship, it's hard to get back to, but we have to. I've been on many relationships that get that take that slippery slope and I've to come back and try and intervene. Go. Hey. Let's make sure we keep our friendship simple. Part of our friendships based on we don't have to talk every day, we don't have to talk every week, we don't have to talk every month. But every time I see you, we pick right back up and I don't feel like I owe you anything. You don't owe me nothing. And that's why we keep getting along so well. Because it's a free exchange. Those friendships. Some of those friendships are awesome, you know, but they're not intrusive and they slowly can become a little more intrusive. When you kind of letting someone know through your verb is to feel a little guilty if you tell me no on this and you know and you're starting to use too many adjectives and adverbs and flower up the language like we speak straight man. When do we get to, you know, it's, it's, it's some, some relationships are hard to maintain like that but very nice when they are.

[Penn]

That makes me think of. Because we're coming to a close here. It makes me think of how we speak to children and how we speak to our children. You know, that's kind of, that's the place in life where I'm finding maybe the most ability and the most courage to be simple, you know, and straightforward, to trust that. So that's a beautiful gift. But I'm just wondering about. So you've shared some about how you've been parenting but our final question of every episode is if you could go back to your 12 year old self, what would you say or do you know, the question is kind of growing with us because it's a simple question. And then I think there's levels to it because what I also like to think about is what would it take for your 12 year old you to listen? You know? So I'm just curious, what, what would you say or do?

[Matthew McConaughey]

I believe I'd say don't be in such a rush to be 13, which I was. And I can look back at my ambitions for being, you know, to be cool was success and happiness. To be older, be more like my older brother, to be a sir, a father like my father. These were, these were dreams and ambitions. And now I know that I can't completely say it because I would say that it served, that, that pursuit served me well. But I do remember, I tell my children that don't miss out on these, these years that you are right now. These, these are first times. You're going to run out of first times. Getting first times right now, man. And don't be in a rush because there's only one first time, first kiss, first. His first heartbreak. You're gonna get him for the first time. And when we rush, and I would say, I'm guilty of this, we can become, we can rush those first times and the second time and third time, we can become a little more callous. Maybe we can lose a certain innocence. And then if you rush it later in life, what adults do is they become cynics. They go from. You become obviously very young age, first heartbreak we talked about earlier, I love you, I love you back. I break up with you. I became skeptical. I didn't become cynical. But what happens in older life, I think one of the biggest diseases we have with adulthood is cynicism, skepticism. All right, that's knowledge, that's the context. Let's say, let me measure this. But not cynicism. But I would say don't rush to be 13 because it's coming. Trusting that it's coming. We all think we're going to miss, you know, that, that party tonight. God, I know we said be home at 9, but then the boys all went down for another part. That, that party tonight, that this is going to be the one. And if I miss tonight, I miss it all. Well, actually, you know what, they're a little older than you. Levi, you had a great day with them. Let them go do their young male things that are things that are a little older than you. And actually by you not being there, they're probably going to have a little more respect for you. By you not being that you said, hey, I enjoyed my lane today. I hang with my friends, surf to these things. But now you are, you are older guys, you're going to go off and there's going to be girls in a party and alcohol. Yeah, go ahead. They'll actually go because we get all, you know what we want to do, we want to overstay our welcome. We want to be. I always wanted to be the last one to leave everything. And that was version to me rushing to be 13 at 13, rushing to be 14, rushing to be 50. In many ways it served me well. But if I go back, I'd say don't rush to be 13 to my 12 year old self. Don't rush to be 13. It's coming regardless.

[Sophie]

I think that's excellent.

[Nava]

Matthew. This was so wonderful. I feel like it flew by.

[Matthew McConaughey]

It did yeah, it did fly by. It's fun to talk about this great life stuff.

[Nava]

Yeah.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Great stuff.

[Sophie]

Thank you for sharing.

[Nava]

Thank you for sharing. I just want to ask you something about your book cover. Sort of, if you have a couple more minutes. I was struck by your description, being that you're. It says Matthew is a storyteller, a treehouse builder, and a pickle expert. What are the top three attributes of a great pickle? I just really want to know.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Great pickle. Firmness. Cold. I like them. You got to be cold. No one likes warm pickles. And I'm a mini. I'm a mini coach.

[Nava]

That also looks great.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I wanna. I wanna hear that sound like a. Not as stiff as a carrot, but close. I'm not. You know, pickles just have so much going on.

[Penn]

You're right.

[Matthew McConaughey]

The cucumber. Yeah. I mean, what's a cucumber about? Besides taking up space in your salad? Has no taste. It's got identity. It comes out of the gate. You know what it is? It's. It may. It's weathered. It's got some scars on it. It's done its time. It really knows who it is. Cucumber's great. I don't know. Put them on your eye, they give you a little water. I think other than that just kind of take up room in your salad, but not the pickle. I love this.

[Penn]

I'm honestly salivating.

[Nava]

I know I want to pick. I'm gonna go eat a pickle.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I do love pickles.

[Penn]

Matthew, thank you so much for stopping by.

[Matthew McConaughey]

I appreciate. Anytime. Thanks. Thanks for taking the time to talk with. Hey, I know y' all said headphones, but I think we're pretty clear I haven't needed them in the past. Okay, if we're. Wait. Y' all got a little nervous? Yeah.

[Penn]

No.

[Matthew McConaughey]

You know what? That'll be a. Okay. Stitcher. I'm Hassan Minhaj, and I have been lying to you. I only pretended to be a comedian so I could trick important people into coming on my podcast. Hasan Minhaj doesn't know to ask them the tough questions that real journalists are way too afraid to ask. People like Senator Elizabeth Warren. Is America too dumb for democracy? Outrageous. Parenting expert Dr. Becky. How do you skip consequences without raising a psychopath?

[Nava]

That's a good question.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Listen to Hasan Minhaj doesn't know. From Lemonada Media. Wherever you get your podcasts, are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co host and happiness guinea pig is my sister, Elizabeth Craft.

[Nava]

That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer.

[Matthew McConaughey]

And producer in Hollywood.

[Nava]

Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits.

[Matthew McConaughey]

Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.