David Ansari (1:57)

That's so cute. Oh, my God.

Penn Badgley (1:59)

I love it.

David Ansari (2:00)

It was so fun. It was so fun. That was adorable. Wait, can you tell us your favorite prompt? Your favorite prompt that David did?

Sophie Ansari (2:07)

My favorite prompt that David did was you're a barista, and a famous person walks into the cafe, and you realize that it's someone you know. He was really. David was actually so good, which was really annoying. You know? I'm happy for him.

David Ansari (2:21)

Okay, I have to tell you guys a really cute Sophie David story really quickly, which is that I wrote the first script that I ever wrote, a pil which is actually how Penn and I came together. It's like the genesis of 9th mode. I shared it with Sophie and David and I sent it to them as, like, I wrote this script and I'd be curious to hear your thoughts because you're both, like, funny and cool. We had no podcast together. No idea that we'd ever worked together. And I remember that they wrote me, like, really quickly with really great notes, and they were like, we printed it out and we acted out all the parts, and then they sent me their feedback and I thought that that was so cute. And I still remember that. Wow, this is great.

Nava Kavilan (2:53)

Did you guys really do that?

Sophie Ansari (2:55)

Yeah, I remember the printed out pages. I remember being on our bed and, like, reading through it together.

David Ansari (3:00)

So cute.

Sophie Ansari (3:01)

Yeah.

Nava Kavilan (3:01)

That means, Sophie, that you have had, I think, about the same number of acting classes as our guest today. And that's going to shock people because we have Susan Sarandon.

David Ansari (3:13)

Wow.

Nava Kavilan (3:13)

And that's actually true. She never took any acting classes. But unlike Sophie, she's won, where she's been nominated for six Academy Awards.

David Ansari (3:21)

I like Sophie.

Sophie Ansari (3:22)

She can act and she's won at.

Nava Kavilan (3:24)

Least one of them. But, yeah, I don't. What do we need to say about. This is random. She also has, like, Emmy nominations. She has nine Golden Globe nominations. She is the star of Thelma and Louise and influenced so many of its iconic moments. She's a star of the Rocky Horror Picture Show, Dead Man Walking. Now you can see her in Nonna's, about a man who risks everything to honor his late mother by opening an Italian restaurant with actual Nonnas grandmothers as the chefs. Susan was so game to dig into her formative years. It was really, really a pleasure and an honor to speak with her today. Don't go anywhere, please. Please don't go anywhere. You're not gonna want to miss this. Stick around.

Megan (4:23)

Hi, I'm Megan, and I've got a new podcast I think you're going to love. It's called Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today. And through it all, I'm building a business of my own and getting all sorts of practical advice along the way that I'm so excited to share with you. Confessions of a Female Founder is out now. Listen wherever you get your podcast.

Penn Badgley (5:00)

Tired of the same old political shouting.

Sarah (5:02)

Matches and talking points, looking for thoughtful conversations that go beyond the headlines and help you understand issues that matter. I'm Sarah and I'm Beth.

Penn Badgley (5:10)

Together we host Pantsuit Politics, a podcast where we bring grace, nuance, and perspective to the news. Because democracy deserves more than hot takes.

Sarah (5:18)

Join us as we approach politics and current events with curiosity, empathy, and a commitment to understanding the bigger picture.

Penn Badgley (5:24)

If you want to stay informed without the anxiety, we're the show for you.

Sarah (5:27)

New episodes drop on Tuesdays and Fridays. Subscribe to Pantsuit Politics wherever you get your podcasts.

David Ansari (5:40)

Hello. Welcome.

Penn Badgley (5:42)

Hi, everybody. Hello.

Nava Kavilan (5:44)

Hello, Susan. Thank you so much for coming on. I know you had some choice. I know press is not a choice, so thank you so much. It's really an honor to meet you.

Penn Badgley (5:54)

You're the first person that's recognized that as someone goes through those same experiences. I understand.

Nava Kavilan (6:00)

Yeah. So if we can, we would just love to start at. At 12 for you, given that you have described yourself as falling into acting quite by accident, or at least you have said that. I don't want to hold you to it, but I've heard that. Did you nonetheless, I try to repeat.

Penn Badgley (6:15)

My stories the same.

Nava Kavilan (6:17)

Yeah. Did you nonetheless see the world somewhat as an artist at this age, or how did you see the world? Do you think?

Penn Badgley (6:25)

I have to set the story with. I'm the eldest of nine children.

Nava Kavilan (6:31)

Right.

Penn Badgley (6:32)

In a little tract house in New Jersey with no nanny and parents who. One was raised institutionally and the other one's parents died. These two people found their way together and had nine children and were cattle. So at 12, I was in a school. Yeah. Because you don't start. How old are you when you go? That's middle school. So high school. Older, right? Yeah. So I was still in St. Francis of Assisi, which was obviously Catholic grade school, populated by maybe 20 families, all of whom had a minimum of seven children and some had 16 and 18 children.

Nava Kavilan (7:17)

Wow.

Penn Badgley (7:19)

So I was at home. I was not someone who. I see my kids, you know, taking off in little gangs and doing sleepovers and all that stuff. That was definitely not. I didn't know that I was missing out on anything. This was just my life to take care of, folding the diapers and taking care of the kids, you know, My mom was fairly overwhelmed, and I played with dolls very late. I was very shy, very in my head already with this innate demand for justice. I believe that they might. There was a possibility that they might, you know, come alive at midnight. So I rotated their dresses to make sure not one doll got the best dress. And I read a lot, and I was very quiet. So it didn't really even occur to Me, I don't think we went out much as a family. We went camping. It didn't. Nothing really. I was the Blessed Virgin in third grade in my classroom for the, you know, whatever. And I was really terrified the communists were going to come over and hang us upside down on crosses, because that's what I was told. So I prayed a lot. I had an experience where, you know, I was very religious during the, you know, cap. The boys and the girls were separated, but I would go to church to pray sometimes in the afternoons during our break. And that's when everyone's making out in the confessionals. And I was. I was not. I was way behind on any social skills or anything. And I had a. A pair of rosary beads that I slept with. Who? One night I looked down and they were glowing. And that's when I realized I did not want the Blessed Virgin or any other saint to ever visit me. I was terrified until I found out that my Aunt Betty had given me Glow in the Dark.

David Ansari (9:28)

Oh my gosh.

Penn Badgley (9:31)

So that was a traumatizing experience. But I was not, you know, I was just quiet and questioning and praying. Then I went to Public High School1,500 in my class. Not my class, middle class, to working people, kids. That's where I met the first Jewish people I ever knew who were strangely, not the least apologetic for killing Christ. And this is where I had completely gave up the Catholic Lord's Prayer to do the Episcopal. The other one, just without even asking. I just didn't want to stand out. So whatever dreams I had of being a martyr and standing for my faith or whatever, no, I just rolled right over with everybody else. And I had never seen girls that were this tough. People had knives, people had guns. And I was bused in. And I remember the first time I heard someone say a fucking bag of potato chips. And I was thinking, how can a bag of potato chips be fucking, you know, could not even. We weren't allowed to say, shut up, fart. We weren't allowed to. You know, my mom, who was in institutions by nuns, thought that, you know, we should have white gloves on in our lower middle class house going. I mean, so that formed a lot of my experience. And it was in Junior as when I was a junior, that I was cast in a play, the first play that I ever did. And I thought it was fun. I don't remember really thinking about it too much. It was a kind of stupid play called My Sister Eileen. And I was one of the two leads, but. And my dad had been a Band singer with the big bands. And so he came out of. When he came back from the war, he gave up his career because he was now having a lot of children. But he became active in the early days of television. And actually, one of the first jobs I had was in a studio that he designed. It was a soap opera on the Upper west side. But I ended up just with the ambition of getting out of New Jersey and, you know, going somewhere. I was accepted at a college at Emerson in. In Boston. My parents were overwhelmed with everything else. There were no guidance counsel. Nobody in my school went to college. So, of course, they didn't send in the paperwork. They didn't send. I lost my place in this. In the. At school. And the gal who was my drama teacher and junior, as a junior, had left the school to get her master's, and she heard that I was no longer going to go to college, and she was getting her master's at Catholic University in D.C. which happened to be four blocks from where my grandparents lived. So she actually said to the drama department, can you let this girl come?

David Ansari (12:55)

Wow, wow.

Penn Badgley (12:56)

Can you get her a job? Cause she has no money and she can live off campus, so you don't have to deal with that. And that's how I got into Catholic U. Where I didn't really do anything. I didn't have the right kind of voice that they liked. They were very Shakespearean, which is where I met Chris Sarandon, who was now a grad student. I was 17. He was a graduate student, and he played the lead in every Shakespearean play and introduced me to black and white, my film and poetry, and basically saved my life. And then after I graduated, he went to the Longmorph Theater to do a play. And he was seen by someone there. And she said, why don't you come in and read for me? So when he finished the play, he needed someone as a scene partner. And I did one scene with him from the Hostage, and they said, why don't you come back, too? Now take it. I've never had an acting class at this point. Well, I've never had an acting class. He goes away to do stuff in the summer. I still don't really do anything. And we go back to New York, and this woman handled Sylvester Stallone, Perry King, myself and Chris Sarandon. She sends me up. And the first job I went up on after I'd been in New York for five days, turned out to be a film called Joe. And they'd been looking for. First of all, it was a Company that had never done anything but porno. This was their first non porno film starring Suzanne Sarandon, to improv. I had no idea what that was, but I somehow did it. And they said, wait a minute. And then they came back and they said, all right, we'd like you to do this. And I called her and she said, just do not sign anything. We don't know what's going on. Just come back. And that film, which isn't. Was directed by John Albertson. He wasn't even in the directors union at that point. And it was starring. I won't say who it was, but a male actor. I was playing someone my age who was a wealthy young girl who was going with a bad boy. And the guy who was playing the working class guy who meets my father after I've run away was really crazy. And on his wardrobe fitting in Bloomingdale's, he peed on the escalator. So realized that this was gonna be maybe interesting, but probably also problematic. And that's where so he went. And now I've just blanked on. His name became Joe and brought his. Peter Boyle came from Second City in Chicago and brought with him a character that was this hard hat guy, this kind of, you know, now MAGA kind of guy who meets the father in a bar. And right when they were editing and they go on a rampage trying to find these hippie people that now, remember, this is like 1970, are shooting and doing things too. And he inadvertently kills his own daughter, the father. While they were editing the film, there was an incident on Wall street where all these hard hats beat up a bunch of hippie kids.

David Ansari (16:29)

Oh.

Penn Badgley (16:30)

And so they had the sense to re edit it around him instead of this, you know, family bullshit kind of thing. And they called it Joe. And it became a huge sleeper. They likened it to Easy Rider, which also was a terrifying dystopian kind of, you know, the year before or something. And that became a huge hit. And that's how I fell into the business. And then I, you know, got another job with Sophia Loren. And I just thought this was hilarious. And I had to pay off my school debt, so I was like, okay. And meanwhile, Chris immediately got in a musical called the Rothschilds. So we'd been in New York a week and both of us were working, and I just thought it was so much fun. And then after. And I got on a soap opera where I was the girl that everything happened to. So I had to learn to deal with cameras. And then I did a Broadway play. I don't know how, but I did it. And after about 10 years, I thought, I guess this is what I do, you know, this is amazing, you know, and. And so I just was very lucky. And I think part of my success was due to the fact that I wasn't taking it too seriously and I kind of was relaxed and you know, granted, no one put me up for like the Godfather or anything I wasn't doing. Wasn't getting really extraordinary chances at things, but it was enough for me. And I thought, this is really fun, you know, so that's kind of always been my, you know, is this project going to be fun? Are there good people? Is it somewhere I want to be? Maybe I get paid. That would be good too. Maybe it's someone that's not a first time director that actually knows what they're doing. And so I bounced between those kind of low and independent things, some of which turn out like the Rocky Horror show to be quite extraordinary. Other ones that you'd ever see, and big films like Thelma and Louise or whatever, kind of between the two of them. And that's it.

Nava Kavilan (18:39)

You just gave us the most concise and interesting summary of somebody's adolescence into their professional era. Yeah, I think the most of any guest. It was so, so. Cause there's also so much that you've done. There's also like just an incredible career you have to speak to. I do want to just go to one, but we'll like put a pin in that. We'll come right back. We do just have a classic kind of pod crushed thing that I do think it's formative for everybody if you're willing to share first love and. Or first heartbreak.

Penn Badgley (19:15)

You know, I went to my high school reunion and I said, why did nobody ask me out? And they said, you were praying. We knew that you weren't gonna put out. That's how.

Sophie Ansari (19:27)

Wow.

Penn Badgley (19:28)

You know, I'm talking about amongst the girls with the white lipstick and the sweaters on backwards with the buttons down the back and lots of hair and everything. And I guess I did was kind of the class clown in a way, you know, So I didn't really have a crush in high school. I kind of dated toward my senior year. But nobody that really felt that stole my heart. Oh, wait a minute. Richie Davis. All right, this is the west side Story of New Jersey. So Richie Davis was our best athlete at Edison High School. He was the quarterback, he was the best basketball player. He was great at track. He was black. Now, I never understood that in the north you could still be racist, you know. My idea at that time was that that was what happened in the south, but that the north was cool. Except the north was only cool if you didn't step out of line. He was kind of shy, very handsome. Now I had to verify this. When I went to my first reunion, which is the only one I went to, he was not there. But I asked the other guys that had been on the basketball team, you know, these, all these other guys if this was just some romantic fantasy I had or if it had actually happened. He started walking me to classes that went on for just a few days. Clearly there was a heart, you know, quite an attraction on my part. And then everybody stepped in and just made sure that did not happen. His friends, the team, everybody was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, no way. So when I went to my reunion, I said, was that true? Did that happen? And they said, I'm ashamed to say, but yes, that did happen. And I've learned a lot since then. And now I, you know, coach an integrated basketball team or I whatever. But yeah, that did happen. So that was the only. But it didn't get. We didn't have cell phones. There was no way of, like I was on the, a 40 minute trip on the bus to get back to, to where my house was because it was a strange gerrymandering of the, the boundaries for who went to what school. And I was actually much closer to a different school. But I got on this bus every morning for like 45 minutes to go where most of the kids lived. So I wasn't, I had to go home after school, I didn't have a car and you know, take the bus again. So you didn't. There was no hanging around, so I didn't really have a boyfriend. And then when I was in college, Chris Sarandon was the first guy I was ever with. And he was so kind and he was so knowledgeable. Especially, you know, he's a graduate student. I'm 17. I mean, he, I just thought he knew everything. And at that time he actually did. And so that, you know, was someone who I felt safe with. And we were together. I mean, we had to get married because I was in the Catholic university. So before my. And all this time I'm living with my grandparents, God bless them, who had never had anyone live with them before. And my grandfather played opera 24 7. They didn't really understand also, by the way, I'm working a number of jobs, so I'm not really around as much as they wanted me to be around. I would try to be there eating Sunday dinner and going to mass, whatever. But by my, my senior year, I was like, I, I gotta, I gotta this. I gotta get out of here. Yeah. And in order to live off campus, I had to be married to him. So we decided to get married, but to renew every year to decide if we really wanted to be together. And so we had known each other for 11 years, and after seven years of. Of marriage, we gracefully split. But he was, you know, really so instrumental to my feelings of safety and also emotional safety and everything. So that was really sad. I felt really guilty when we split, but it was, I felt necessary at the time. You know, it's one of those things. We just. You know how that happens. Yeah.

David Ansari (24:16)

Stick around. We'll be right back.

Julia Louis-Dreyfus (24:21)

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Sophie Ansari (25:35)

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David Ansari (29:33)

Susan, you mentioned living with your grandparents. And you're in this new film, Nonas, you're in this, this beautiful set that we can see right now. And sort of one of the prevalent themes is like a, a lovely warm meal prepared by Anonna. And I'm curious if you have a meal or a food that you prepare for your kids or that was prepared for you that makes you feel very nostalgic.

Penn Badgley (29:54)

Well, my mom, my. Oh. See, if you're raised in foster care and then live with nuns and an orphanage, you don't learn to cook. So, you know, and then you have one child after the next and the next, and you've never even held a baby. She was not making big meals, you know, nobody. We were Spam, Campbell's soup, tuna fish casserole made with Campbell soup tuna. You know, we were this, the usual kind of that stuff. But I definitely. Well, I was vegetarian for about eight years, and when I divorced, I wanted meat, so. And then for my kids, I mean, I was very much about. I used to walk down to soho to get clean vegetables. You know, before it was so easy to get organic. I definitely, my daughter had everything that was organic. And so I definitely learned to cook. Chris Sarandon, his mom Greek, taught me a few avo, lemon, no soup, and a few other things that were very comforting. And I think with my family, I love not only having big families, but having tables that have tons of friends. And, you know, I gravitate towards chaos. That's probably just my conditioning. But so I think most of the stuff that I made was in the Italian realm because I really love pasta myself. I'M definitely bread spitch for sure.

David Ansari (31:35)

I never heard that. That's great.

Penn Badgley (31:37)

That would make a good T shirt. Actually.

David Ansari (31:39)

I was just gonna say. Yeah, that's. You've got a patent that. Yeah, yeah.

Penn Badgley (31:46)

So we made big Thanksgivings. My dad actually would cook more than my mom on the big meals. And then you know, 15 minutes in there'd be some kind of flare up and he'd leave the table in a huff. And when we were growing up and we had the big meal on Christmas or Thanksgiving, they never figured out we moved to a little bigger house and there was a dining room and then the kitchen had a table and they never figured out to make two plates of each thing. So someone would always be walking the turkey over to the other table, bringing the dressing back to the other table. You know, it was a constant give and take between these two rooms until my dad blew up and left the meal after he'd been slaving all day. And he would always make. Well, we went to church, he was an atheist. And we would come back and he would have a mustache on one of the younger kids and say Cafe Philippe or something. And we would have pancakes all ready and he would do a whole thing. Or if he was making burgers for a birthday, he would somehow manage to not stamp them, brand them with who has ever initials. So he was a rather. He could make an event and those big meals were his. But I think for me it was. I did a lot of baking, but once I was by myself or, you know, if I was living by myself, I didn't tend to make huge meals anymore. I guess the self love thing hadn't kicked in. I wasn't like having a glass of wine in my kitchen for four hours myself. A meal. I never, never got to that phase.

Sophie Ansari (33:27)

I have to ask you about Stepmom because it's, I think one of my favorite films and as a whole family, my nuclear family, that's one we would watch all the time. And I find it so moving. And I just found out, I heard you say that some of the things that you did as a mother in that film came from your own experience as a mom. Like the quilt, the famous quilt. Which is.

Penn Badgley (33:50)

So yeah, I produced it. So the first thing I did was a big rewrite and, and I had to fire the, the original director because I, I was like, do some of these scenes have to go tell me which scenes are absolutely have to stay in as far as you're concerned. And they were every scene I wanted to cut. So I got It. Chris Columbus came in and I was. And I wanted him because I knew that he would be good with kids, and I wanted those kids to feel safe. And I'm still in touch with both of them. The little boy looks exactly the same, except stretched out. Aw New York acting now. And I see him regularly. And Jenna I've seen. So we were close, and Ed was really fabulous, but I had a friend whose wife had died, leaving him with two small children, and. And it was a slow death. And so I. I talked to him about the fears that the kids had. I talked to the kids. Liam's dad had passed when he was quite small, what they would want to hear. I talked to a number of people and I came up with the, you know, the idea of the photographs and the, you know, the things that the cape and, you know, also singing. Because I was like, what would she do after finding out that her cancer's back? And came up while I had to lose so much weight. So I was always walking in my trailer and I wanted to lose it before Christmas, so. Because we were going away to Morocco and I wanted to be able to eat. So the nice thing about being the producer is you can schedule your death. So we did a people with a Christmas break so I could eat while we were gone. And I was on and Ain't no Mountain High Enough came on, and I was like, yeah, that's. I wanted something that the kids could act to. And I thought of Midnight Train to Georgia. And then I listened to the lyrics and I was like, no, that's not good. That's not good. Yeah, Perk up a cancer scene. No, that's not good. So I chose that. And Chris was totally down. And so, yeah, it was all your fears, because I don't know if you have all have kids, but when I had my first child, which was very late because I never even thought about doing that, having already felt like I did that. Everyone says, oh, life comes in, but I really found death came in. I had never thought about death. I had never thought about how long I needed to live or being safe in a house where you're by yourself. Where are the windows? Where are the doors? What's up? There's a fire. And so doing that film and dealing with this question really moved me and really gave me a chance to learn something and isolate something and, you know. Yeah. Does that answer any?

Sophie Ansari (36:56)

That was beautiful. Yes. No. Thank you for telling us about it.

Nava Kavilan (36:59)

So tying something here to, you know, the idea of a Nona. Actually, there's a Beautiful line from the film when one of the characters, one of the nonnas, I suppose you say she's estranged from her four children, and so she's essentially Nonna without a family. And she says, I was a strong mother. I raised them to be strong, just like my mother. And then she pauses and says, I would love them differently now. And you already have spoken about your parents, I think, in a way that shows an immense amount of, like, love and admiration and respect. So. But I just thought, like, what. What kind of love do you feel that you got from your parents, specifically during adolescence, or what, you know, you felt you didn't. And how has your experience with motherhood impacted the way you remember them?

Penn Badgley (37:48)

My parents were not really. They didn't have the tool set to deal with. They did the best they could. My mom was really smart, really beautiful, and really didn't get a chance to blossom till she was in her 60s. And I think there's a lot of women of that generation without birth control who were very bitter in their lives because they didn't feel their lives were theirs. They didn't make the kind. They didn't have the autonomy that we have. I know that all the mistakes that I've made were mine. I didn't feel my life was done to me, and my mom definitely felt her life was done to her and things were taken from her. So she said to me, I never had that much fun with my kids as you do, because I'm a sloppy mom. You know, I really. I don't care. I mean, I don't care if my house is impeccable. You know, if I have to defrost the refrigerator. I'd rather play with my kids and find some other time to do that. And we were fortunate enough to have a space and to have money. I dragged my kids everywhere when I shot until they could present a really good. A really good argument, like when they were teenagers. And then they were so happy to have me go, actually. But before that, I tried to do pretty much all my big films during the summers, and I took them with me to New Orleans for Dead Men. I mean, like. And I would find a way to educate them there. I would, you know, do an actual syllabus of places they could learn, whatever. And I picked schools that allowed that to happen so that they weren't. But then at a certain point, you know, I remember when we did Dead Men Walking, the ducks were hatching in third grade, and we were gonna be leaving, and we planned the whole schedule so Eva could be There when the ducks hatched. And then it changed and she had to come to New Orleans. So then I got ducks that were hatched. We had all these ducks in the tub when the lightning hit and the flood came and whatever. And I just. I mean, I think now they appreciate it. They didn't complain really that much. But one of the biggest gifts I've given my kids, I think, is flexibility and a bigger eye towards the world of kinds of people. Their bubble was really big. And in New York, that's a pretty easy thing to achieve, too. Your kids are in schools with different language kids and different kinds of families and everything. But being able to take them to the south, being able to take them to, you know, Australia, whatever, I think that they. It exposed them to and allowed them to be comfortable with different kinds of people. There wasn't a fear of the other as much as some of the kids that are really sheltered. In a way. I wish I had been even less pushy about education. They all went to college. I wanted them all to go to college. Eva was doing film with all these kids that had. She took her high school, whatever it is that you get out of school just because everybody else did it. And then she was going to college, everybody else was just working. So, you know, she was really a misfit in a lot of ways. And the other kids all went to school, too. And I think now that that pause to be out of the house and be safe and to possibly be exposed to some interesting thinking people is a real gift, if you can do it. But the early part of education, I think, sucks in this country. I think that you don't spend your time finding people's strengths. You're plugging them into a system that's been around, even the private, supposedly progressive schools, too much of, you know, homework, books and shit like that. I wish in a way that they had been even exposed to a more interesting formative year. I mean, as teachers, you know, I think it's pretty much over if your curiosity is killed by the time you go into high school. Because. Because you're in a crummy middle school. And middle school, by the way, seems to be the weakest of all the areas. I gotta say.

David Ansari (42:22)

It is, yeah.

Penn Badgley (42:23)

People that have been there for 20 years, these great women and guys, and then you get some of the expert high school. But the middle school, every single one of my kids, I felt that there was a real lack of enthusiastic, interesting teachers in middle school. And even though they graduated with languages from high school and they have Some sense of history and everything. I would have liked even more hands on, more interesting, more creative. And not the arts, but just necessarily. But when I say creative, just looking at science and everything in a more creative way. So I'm glad that I kind of punched holes in that by ripping them from their secure schools and taking them on the road. And the crews are always so nice. You know, they're always. When we were doing Lorenzo's Oil, we were in St. Louis. Or no, we were in where. What's his name? Anyway, it doesn't matter. But it was an amazing Halloween. Everybody got expert makeup on the kids. They were all like gangs of kids hanging out. And so I'm really grateful for this as my job because they've seen women doing jobs that you would think are just men's jobs. There's all kinds of people. So I think it's been a really great thing. Unfortunately, now they're all in the business in one way or another. So I was hoping it would kind of make it less romanticized, but it didn't. At the end of the day, they all ended up doing something connected to. To acting or film or. Or writing or whatever.

David Ansari (44:11)

Yeah.

Sophie Ansari (44:14)

And we'll be right back.

Reshma Saujani (44:20)

Hey, I'm Reshma Sajani, founder of Girls who Code and Moms First. I consider myself a pretty successful adult woman. So why is it that in midlife, as I'm about to turn 50, I feel so stuck? Join me as I try to find the answer on my so called midlife from Lemonada Media. I talk to experts and extraordinary guests about divorce, exercise, menopause, sex, drugs, and more to understand what we're going through and how to make the most of it. Listen wherever you get your podcasts.

Hasan Minhaj (44:49)

I'm Hasan Minhaj and I have been lying to you. I only pretended to be a comedian so I could trick important people into coming on my podcast. Hasan Minhaj doesn't know to ask them the tough questions that real journalists are are way too afraid to ask. People like Senator Elizabeth Warren. Is America too dumb for democracy?

Megan (45:08)

Outrageous.

Hasan Minhaj (45:09)

Parenting expert Dr. Becky. How do you skip consequences without raising a psychopath?

Penn Badgley (45:14)

That's a good question.

Hasan Minhaj (45:15)

Listen to Hasan Minhaj doesn't know from Lemonada Media. Wherever you get your podcasts.

Julia Louis-Dreyfus (45:23)

Hi there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus. This fall, my podcast Wiser Than Me is back for season three with even more wisdom straight from some legendary old ladies. These chickadees have a lot to teach us. Every word is a lesson in living unapologetically and focusing on the stuff that really matters from Lemonada Media Wiser Than Me Season three out now. Find it wherever you get your podcast. Subscribe to Lemonada Premium in the Apple Podcasts app and listen to every episode of season three A.D. free.

Sophie Ansari (46:05)

There's this scene in Nonna's where your character takes all, all of the Nonna's and talks about beauty and says, you know beauty. Feeling beautiful is not so much about how you look, but it's about how you feel. It's being feeling seen, feeling heard, feeling confident and strong. And I'm curious, I'd love to know either you can answer this about your adolescence or about how you feel now, but I'm curious, given that definition, when you feel the most beautiful.

Penn Badgley (46:36)

I didn't see my. I saw myself. Well, I certainly didn't think I was beautiful growing up. I mean if you saw pictures of me, I look like an ostrich with these big eyes, like skinny little thing. It's pretty unattractive actually. And I was in my school uniform and I wasn't allowed to wear stockings even in high school. So I, you know, I had a limited. But when I got in college too, I don't think so when I, I mean later I, I went into the business thinking of myself more as a character actor because I wasn't the really beautiful lead of the film. A lot of times I was the second woman who. And usually it was the way I got the part was they couldn't find somebody that could do it or nobody wanted to do it. And the main parts, the big films that I got were mostly because for whatever reason the people were on the A list, turned it down. Bull Durham. I wasn't on the list. I had to fly myself from Italy where I was living, you know, because no one would read. The people they wanted, refused to read. So that was a break for me. Thelma Louise, I know they offered to do a few other people who, you know, the script was kind of needed some work and I don't know, they just thank you very much but so that's how I got that one. So it's never been really my self image that I was beautiful. Early on in my career I was asked to do Playboy. And when I looked and I had no problem with it except all the gals just always looked so like a piece of meat, you know, I thought, what. How do they manage to take these pictures? And everyone loses their personality, Everyone. And so I started looking at nude pictures a lot and talking to different photographers. And every year they would approach me about it and looking at the women that I admired and some of them were foreign actresses, you know, they're trying to like the Greek, famous Greek actress Melena McCrory or, you know, and they weren't perfect women. And I thought, what makes them seem and bankrupt? You know, they weren't like. And Margaret, sexy, beautiful. What made them so charismatic? And it was because they all had something that seemed like they were saying yes to life. You know, there was some quality that they were gay, but also that they'd been hurt. But yeah, but okay, they're still saying yes. And they could age that way in Europe, you know. Oh, God. You know the famous French actress Moreau, you know, Jean Moreau, same thing. Met her later in life. What was it about these people that just were so vital and welcomed you in? And I thought, it's just they're saying yes to life, you know, that's what it is. It's so appealing. And they're not worried about if they're perfect and they're not worrying about if they're, you know, which is easy to come to when you're 22, as you hit 50, 60. I'm almost 80. I'm 79 years old. So, you know, it's shocking. You find that the light that you have inside, which was really tested with no makeup, playing Sister Helen. That was scary. That it's going to come from years of loving, really everything, you know. Yeah.

David Ansari (50:11)

Susan, I don't. I hope this isn't shallow, but I think that word vital is just right because when you first came on screen on Nona's, I actually gasped. I was just like, she looks so incredible.

Penn Badgley (50:23)

I googled your age.

David Ansari (50:24)

I was like, how is this possible? She looks amazing. But I think it's that vitality and that spirit really comes through.

Penn Badgley (50:32)

Thank you.

Nava Kavilan (50:34)

If you could go back to 12 year old Susan, what would you say or do, if anything?

Penn Badgley (50:42)

I'd say, hang on.

Sophie Ansari (50:45)

That'S perfect.

Nava Kavilan (50:47)

Susan, I have to say, you're an incredibly warm and open book and your career is astounding. Your confidence and humility at the same time is an inspiration and it was a real pleasure to have you on.

Penn Badgley (51:09)

Thank you.

Sophie Ansari (51:14)

You can watch Nonna's on Netflix now and you can keep up with Susan Sarandon online at susansurandon. Podcrust is hosted by Penn Badgley, Nava Kavilan and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clip Agency. Special thanks to the folks at La Monada. And as always, you can listen to podcrust ad free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye.

Penn Badgley (51:43)

I always tell my kids when they're about to go into some family situation that they don't really want to go to for some reason, I say just think of it as a sitcom. It'll be amusing, won't be upsetting. Just that's such advice. Imagine you're in a sitcom.

David Ansari (51:58)

That's a great reframe.

Megan (52:01)

Hi, I'm Megan and I've got a new podcast I think you're going to love. It's called Confessions of a Female Founder, a show where I chat with female entrepreneurs and friends about the sleepless nights, the lessons learned, and the laser focus that got them to where they are today. And through it all, I'm building a business of my own and getting all sorts of practical advice along the way that I'm so excited to share with you. You Confessions of a Female Founder is out now. Hear new episodes each week ad free on Amazon Music. You can also ask Alexa Alexa, play Confessions of a Female Founder with Megan on Amazon Music and she will.

Sarah (52:42)

Want more from your favorite Lemonada Media podcast while supporting the shows that help make life suck less. Subscribe to Lemonada Premium today. As a subscriber, you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like never before heard interviews, behind the scenes moments, bonus episodes, and so much more. It's easy to sign up no matter what podcast app you use on Apple. You can just click the Lemonada logo in the Apple podcast app and hit subscribe. For all other podcast apps, head to Lemonada supportingcast FM to subscribe. That's Lemonada supportingcast FM.