Carson Gross, computer science professor at Montana State and creator of htmx, joins the show to cut through the noise around AI and programming. He explains why the jump from high-level languages to LLMs is fundamentally different from past transitions, why junior developers who skip writing code risk being at the mercy of a stochastic system, and why systems architecture and managing code complexity are the skills that will matter most. A grounded, rational take on the future of software development jobs.

Resources

Yes,and...: https://htmx.org/essays/yes-and/

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Chapters

00:00 Introduction — Carson Gross and the "Yes, And…" Blog Post
01:45 Why Carson Felt Compelled to Write About AI and Coding
03:30 The Assembly-to-High-Level Analogy — and Why It Falls Apart
06:00 Juniors Must Write Code to Be Able to Read Code
08:15 The Sorcerer's Apprentice Trap
10:30 Could AI Actually Increase Demand for Programmers?
12:45 Why "SaaS Is Dead" Is Shortsighted
15:00 Systems Architecture as the High-Value Skill Going Forward
17:30 Essential vs Accidental Complexity — The No Silver Bullet Framework
20:00 How LLMs Break the Natural Feedback Loop of Bad Code
23:00 Will AI Change How We Think About Testing?
26:30 Abstraction, Paradigms, and Human-Readable Code
29:00 How Much Has AI Actually Boosted Carson's Own Productivity?
32:00 The Mental Health Cost of the AI Hype Cycle
35:30 Final Thoughts — Give Yourself (and Others) a Break

Special Guest: Carson Gross.