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Political Beats
Episode 135: Brad Birzer / Yes [Part 1]
02:58:05
Scot and Jeff discuss the first part of the band Yes's career (1969-1973) with Brad Birzer.
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- [00:00]
Scott Bertram
Foreign.
- [00:07]
Jeff Blair
Hello again everybody and welcome into another edition of Political Beats, a presentation of National Review. Find us on X at PoliticalBeats. We're also on Facebook as well. You can subscribe for new episodes through Apple podcasts and elsewhere. Nationalreview.com Click on the podcast tab there. Find all the fun NR audio, including political Beats. Listen and leave reviews where you can. We also direct you to our Patreon page, which is patreon.com politicalbeats support the show, help it stay ad free as it has been. We have entry level support for voting privileges and a few things here and there. Mid level for early access to all of our shows and higher audio quality and our upper level best friends who get early access, higher audio quality, monthly exclusive content, episodes, remastered shows, playlists and more. All of that@patreon.com politicalbeats now the part of the program where we thank some of our Patreon supporters specifically and individually. Our new members, Mehmet and David Dixon, thank you for your support and some of our longtime supporters going way back. Stephen Bailey, Kelly Corbett, Jonathan Ellsworth, Frank Landymore, Michael Dobler, Lex Meyers, Christopher Merkel, Jeffrey Kempenitch, Kenton Hoover, Matt McGinnis, Kevin Roth and Mark Lutz. Thank you all for helping us and supporting us over@patreon.com politicalbeats my name is Scott Bertram. Find me on xcott. Bertram, my tag team partner standing by as always, Jim. Jeff Blair. Jeff, how are you?
- [01:56]
Jim
I'm doing fine, Scott. I am sitting here tuning up these tightly coiled bass strings to a high gauge. I am making sure the drum risers have been double bolted, all the keyboard patches are set in place, and I have been warming up that countertenor voice. I'm gonna sing like a butterfly that's free to fly today.
- [02:15]
Jeff Blair
Fabulous. Our guest on today's program is a three timer. A three timer on the program. He is the Russell Amos Kirk Chair in American Studies at Hillsdale College, the lyricist for the progressive rock band the Bardic Depths, author of a biography of Rush, drummer Neil Cultural Repercussions, and the author of numerous other books including In Defense of Andrew Jackson Russell, American Conservative, and more. Brad Birzer returns once again. Brad, thanks so much for being here.
- [02:48]
Brad Birzer
Oh, thank you guys. I love talking to you and this is great. And especially we get to talk about things that really matter. That's wonderful.
- [02:55]
Jeff Blair
And before we talk about the band, we give you the opportunity just to allow you to introduce yourself and tell people about what you do. Perhaps here. And were you right too?
- [03:05]
Brad Birzer
Yeah, so I've actually been at Hillsdale now. It'll be 25 years this summer. So really my professional career has been here. And I'm a historian as well as a professor of American studies, so I've been doing that for a long time. I actually my music career, I don't play anything, but my listening to music goes all the way back to probably about 1975 or so. I was born in 1967. In fact, I was born just a few days after the Magical Mystery Tour album came out. And I have two older brothers, one who's eight years older and the other who's five years older. And they introduced me in the 1970s. They introduced me to yes and to Jethro Tull and to Kansas. And really the very first album that ever moved me, both in terms of its music as well as the art, was yes Songs, the 1973 triple album at the time, now double CD but triple album at the time that I just was enamored with, that was really my introduction to music. So coming up now on on more than 40 years, coming up on close to 50 years of me listening to music, but yes, songs in particular. So it's great.
- [05:09]
Jeff Blair
You'll have a kindred spirit talking about live albums later on in Jeff, the.
- [05:16]
Jim
Before we but before we get to that, I I just wanted to ask you, how did you get into yes in particular? Why are they the band that sang to you and what did they mean to you? And why do they matter? Because this is going to be a complicated argument that we're going to make over the next several hours, I think, especially when it gets to the lyrics.
- [05:37]
Brad Birzer
Yeah. You know, for me, again, it was I can see the stack of albums next to our stereo. My mom, 87, now lives in Kansas, doing great. But my mom was very encouraging of us listening to all kinds of music. So we had classical, we had jazz, we had progressive rock with normal rock as well. I remember BTO and some other groups that we had. And I was just so drawn to the COVID of yes songs. So it was really the art that got me at first. Jeffrey R. I love Roger Dean.
- [06:13]
Jeff Blair
So, yeah, Brett, if you want to say anything else here about why yes matters to you, why people should care about this music, we're about to spend multiple discussing between this Part one and Part two. This is one of the big white whales. This is one of the most requested episodes that we've had left hanging out there on Political Beats as we take a look at yes. So why should people care about this Music. And why do you love it?
- [06:41]
Brad Birzer
Well, I love the pastoral quality to it, and I love the classical emphasis that they bring to it, the symphonic emphasis that they bring. And I actually. I think we'll probably have some discussion about this. I generally like their lyrics, think their lyrics are basically tone poems in what they're trying to do. And I appreciate even John Anderson's voice, which I don't think I would normally be attracted to. But then again, I like Geddy Lee's voice, too, and I like Mark Hollis's voice. And none of them are great singers, but they have such range and depth. And I think one of the things that yes always does is they're just utterly earnest. And I could see people mocking him for as well. But I also think it's one of their great strengths. So I find them very inviting, very intellectual. I love Starship Troopers. I mean, there are a number of different things I love about them. I love their science fiction themes. I love their religious themes. I just. And maybe I'm reading too much into the lyrics, but they've always spoken to.
- [07:45]
Scott Bertram
Me out the window When I think about you I don't belong Should I be chasing so hard the truth of Spark. You going with all the going forward to listen your time. Take a.
- [08:38]
Unknown
Look.
- [08:38]
Jim
God. I think I should probably go second and you can go third because I'll do the little intro pit and I'll explain who these guys were. But also because I. I have a lot to say about my relationship to yes. And my relationship to yes is a curiously fraught one. It's unlike the relationship I've had to basically nearly any other band in my life, in the sense that I started off convinced, and basically mostly for ideological reasons, that I hated them. That this was, in fact, the opposite of what music was supposed to be. The worst music. The thing that you were supposed to make fun of. Another group I thought that fell into that category was the Grateful Dead. And, well, I guess we all know how that one turned out. So this tells you something about the stupid prejudices you acquire in childhood. Because what happened to me when I was a kid. Now, of course, what did I know of yes on the radio? I never knew Roundabout. Believe it or not, the only two songs of theirs that I knew were, of course, owner A Lonely Heart. It's the later period that we'll be talking about in our next episode. But any child of MTV knew that song from 90125. It's a great song. And I even, you know, even in my. In the depths of my ignorance, I still couldn't deny that I liked that track. And then the only thing I really knew from their early era was like, I've seen all good people. And I actually didn't quite clock. It was the same band at first. And of course, like a lot of other people, I had the same thought. I was like, isn't that a woman singing? I had no idea it was a man. Because John Anderson's counter tenor voice is unlike anything else you're going to hear on the radio or at that time or anytime.
- [10:29]
Scott Bertram
Cause it's time, it's time in time with your time and this news it is captured.
- [10:39]
Unknown
For the Queen to use.
- [10:57]
Jim
But then as I became kind of like a critic, a hipster, a kid who read about music criticism, boy, everyone hated yes. Rolling Stone hated yes. They started off liking them at. At the time. And then the retrospective criticisms, once punk rolled around and everyone's like, oh, this stuff was always garbage. And that was where I came in in terms of reading about the band and about Prague in general. Really was told to stay away from this stuff. It was the province of dorks and losers and people who thought they were just too smart and too cool for school. It was a great way to remain a virgin until you were 25. You know that. And D and D is a great combination, you know. And so, like, I started off with, like, a prejudice against them. I was very raucous. Beatles, who, Stones, Dylan, Velvet Underground, stuff like that. It wasn't until college that it finally broke down for me. And I've even talked about this story once before with Genesis. It was Genesis really, that did it first because they'd had such early purchase upon me mentally and emotionally, that once I finally was like, I gotta find out what the hell he is. I even liked Peter Gabriel solo. So I was like, well, let's just try the Prague stuff. I was like, oh, man, I really love this. They're my favorite band of all time. Yes came next. And it came next. I had a friend in sophomore year of college, Jeff Novich, lived down the hall from me. He was one of those guys did the Columbia house thing where you buy like, you know, a billion box sets or, you know, CDs for, like a penny. And so, like, he got a bunch of them and some of them he didn't like. He was a big tall fan, as it turns, a huge Jethro Tall fan. But he didn't care for yes. And so he actually let me. I let him copy my gold CD of Jethro Tull's living in the past and he let me have yes years, the boxed set. And that was my true first introduction.
- [12:40]
Jeff Blair
That's a great set band.
- [12:41]
Jim
It was a great way to get into it. And I still think it's a pretty well curated thing for what? The time, the place, the restrictions, the format and all that. It's a nice way to start. And it was a real rough ride because so much of this music was immediately beautiful to me. And it felt like it was like listening to Candy. When I listened to the early yes sound, the stuff that people dismissed as being like their pre formative era, I was like, I find nothing wrong with this. I love this. When it got into the High Prague stuff, I was like, I still see the value of this. Then it got a little bit gaseous with like, the Tales from the Topographic Oceans and Relayer era. But I just told myself, I'm gonna persist with this. And by the time I was done absorbing that set, I realized two things. First of all, I need to get the rest of the albums. Second of all, God help me, I'm a Yes. F.
- [13:32]
Scott Bertram
It's sa.
- [14:32]
Jim
That was a moment where I kind of won a victory over my own prejudices and realized that I don't really need to tell myself that something is cool or uncool. All I need to do is ask myself, what does it make me feel? This music I found remarkable. I found remarkable then for the same reason I find it remarkable now, which is that no other group has ever sounded like the band. Yes. And any of their faces, really, frankly. Which is even more remarkable when you think about it. Because given the band, you know, members that they cycled through throughout this career, it's going to be one long running story. We'll tell you. They always sounded like yes and no one else quite did. There are many, many groups that have been influenced by their harmonies, by their constructions, by Steve Howe's guitar figures, but nobody sounds like yes because there was a certain alchemy in the way the group came together, the way they recorded themselves, the way they presented themselves, that felt like I was beaming into an alien world. Years before, you know, Avatar, I had the Roger Dean album covers, you know, that Brad is referring to. And I had this almost inscrutable lyrical music. The lyrics by John Anderson, which we'll talk about during this show, they don't make a ton of sense. Sometimes they do, and then you can almost laugh at the fact that, oh, I can define, I can glean some meaning from this. That's almost like Being able to read a Sumerian text and understand what they're.
- [15:56]
Brad Birzer
Saying in its own language.
- [15:59]
Jim
As I said, I was joking with you guys earlier. HE SPEAKS NAVI I mean. I mean, all the lyrics to yes songs could be written in Navi. You know, it's the same kind of Roger Dean ish, sort of, you know, utopian, biological, kind of like organic, you know, peaceful thing. And it all is very hippie, dippy, trippy. And none of it matters because it might as well be like listening to somebody sing Italian or German in an opera. Yes. Music to me is sort of sui generis, and that no one sounds like them and, well, the way they sound is grand. It doesn't always work, but it works so often, and the conceits are so daring and so well executed that they actually did things as a progressive rock group that they're not my favorite prog rock group, but I. They did certain things better than anyone else has ever done and I think ever will do. And that's why they absolutely earn a place, you know, not only in the Rock and Roll hall of Fame, but who cares about that? But they earn a place on this show. And as just before we Roll tape, I said I could have done this episode when I was 19 years old. And I've been waiting quite.
- [17:23]
Scott Bertram
Yes. In the night sky Time flies West of the morning the dawn and the. You believe in your best situation I say yes.
- [17:48]
Unknown
At the moment I see you it's so good to be near you at the feeling you give me.
- [17:57]
Jeff Blair
Well, I'm the new one here. And I knew Yes. I knew more about the story of yes than I did about the music of yes. Much like both of you and Jeff specifically.
- [18:12]
Jim
Did you watch a Behind the Music episode? Did they do one for you?
- [18:15]
Jeff Blair
This is just one of those things you pick up in the reference books in the library about the different lineups. And now there's two Yeses, one on the west coast, and now they're going to combine and the Buggles are involved at some point and. Right. So all. I know you. I know that story actually fairly well. The music itself, not as much, other than Owner of a Lonely Heart. And then that core, I guess, trio of classic rock songs, Roundabout and Long Distance run around and seeing all good people.
- [18:50]
Jim
All good people.
- [18:51]
Jeff Blair
Those get played constantly. So I knew all of them, but other than that, not a lot. And so went into this pretty cold. And Jeff warned me, it's not a warning suggested you've got to spend even more time than you think with some of this music. So I approach this actually quite differently than I do normally, even for an artist that I don't know very well. I did not do a lot of research about these albums and about these songs and instead pretty much plowed my time into listening over and over. Usually I try to get 3 spins per album before we talk, and this was probably double that. I listened in the car driving back and forth from Chicago. I listened in the basement as I was on the exercise bike. I listened late at night and I listened early in the morning and I listened and I listened to the crazy.
- [19:52]
Jim
Work routines that podcasters have, like, this is our homework and we have to find a way. I'm on the treadmill. All right. I'm going to put on time and a word, you know, like, yeah, yes, this happens to us.
- [20:04]
Jeff Blair
So I, you know, I, I, I ingested all of it and I didn't take into account a lot of outside, say, noise or outside opinions. I just wanted to connect with the music itself. And I didn't pay attention greatly to the lyrics because the reputation of, of John Anderson as being somewhat nebulous, hard to grasp when it came to lyrics, preceded the. And so I knew that was going to be a losing battle in places too. I wanted to hear this stuff and it's difficult. I'm not. You guys both don't. I'm not the biggest Prague rock guy in the world. And so when you have a bunch of 11 minute and 18 minutes and, you know, 22 minute long songs placed in front of you, that does begin to get a little daunting. So I wanted to put my attention where it needed to be. So here's the good news. I really like it. I really liked it. I'm probably not as enthusiastic about those first two albums than Jeff will be, but that's okay. But once Steve Howe is on board and once that lineup begins to solidify, boy, that's outstanding music. And it's, it's outstanding in a different way than the other Prague bands that we've treated did on this show. It's not Genesis and it's not Rush and it's not King Crimson. You know, King Crimson is, is, can be spiky and oblong and very hard to get your arms around. You know, for, for someone who is not accustomed to this music from. Yes. Really, there's not a steep learning.
- [22:24]
Jim
It goes down easy, doesn't it? It's as simple. That's what I meant when I said it was like candy for my ears. Right. It just seems so like Easy to kind of put your arms around. I'm glad that you're making this point as someone new to them. So, yeah, I'm not alone.
- [22:36]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, absolutely. And, man, at some point, as I listened five or six times, I got, you know, excited about. Okay, I want to listen to this. I got to hear that one again. And there are bits and pieces in here that boy, I really liked a ton. And I don't want to sort of show my cards too early here, but then we get to Tales from Topographic Oceans. And I'll mention it here. We'll have much more to say about it later, but this is one of my sort of priors entering. This is. Jeff and I both read this book when we were kids. I looked it up, came out in 1991. It's called the World's Worst Rock and Roll Albums. And I. I had two entries from.
- [23:16]
Jim
Yes on this one. I was trying to jog my own memory. I know the one you're talking about, though.
- [23:20]
Jeff Blair
Yeah. Tales from Topographic Oceans was. I don't think it may have been number one. It was very high on the list. One, two, three. In terms, I think having fun with.
- [23:29]
Jim
Elvis on that was worse. Number one.
- [23:31]
Jeff Blair
That's right. That is.
- [23:32]
Jim
And this is like number two.
- [23:34]
Jeff Blair
Number two.
- [23:35]
Jim
That's.
- [23:35]
Jeff Blair
And so I. I.
- [23:36]
Jim
Metal Machine music rank was not as bad as this.
- [23:40]
Jeff Blair
And so I did enter with a little bit of a. A preconceived notion about Tales from Topographic Ocean Space. But even that. Well, I'll have more to say about that later. I guess I would end my opening statement by simply saying there's going to be a lot of opportunities, I think, as we run through these albums, for people to enter the yes world without a lot of. Without a lot of worries, without a lot of effort. This is, as Jeff pointed out, pretty easy to swallow music, even though it's Prague. And Yes. That it seems perhaps at times to be a little onerous to get your arms around. It's not. It's not. It's pretty easy.
- [24:23]
Jim
As Scott says, no opportunity necessary, no experience needed. This is a band that is a lot easier to get into than you might have thought. And I guess it is therefore incumbent upon me to sort of set the scene up. And, of course, who are yes? Where does the band yes come from? Well, you know the name yes, actually, it's a good name. And I thank God that they came up with that name because I don't think that yes would have really become the band that they were if they had remained Mabel Greer's. Toy Shop, which is the original name of the band that Chris Squire and guitarist Pete Banks were in. This would be like 67, 68. It's the London Club Gigi scene. Sergeant Peppers has come out. You still have to locate yourself in this time and place. So in London, in the world of England music at the time, like sergeant Pepper had come out, everybody's expectations were increased. Even the club gigging scene. The guys who play like, you know, sweaty gigs at the Marquee, like realize we have to do something different and more colorful with our sound. The old simple guitar, bass, drums thing ain't making it anymore, right? We. Everybody has progressed beyond that. And so they had this band and it slowly came together over time. One person would join. It started with Squire and Banks and then I think if guy named a drummer or some other band man called Bill Bruford joined. They met a singer who was like the janitor at a club or a bar named John Anderson. And this guy was funny because he was like a midget. He's like 5 foot 2 and he speaks in a very high, whispery, wafy fairy like voice. And as it turns out, he sings in one as well. This is going to kind of make Yeses sound quite singular in the early era. Then they find Tony K to play keyboards. And they realize after seeing King Crimson, the band that we just mentioned, playing in the gig scene again probably at the Marquee or something like that, in early 69, before they themselves had recorded in the Court of the Crimson King, they just realized, okay, competition just got a lot fiercer. And so we need to get a lot better at what it is we're doing. They retooled. There's some actually 1968 tapes out there. There's like one really bad fuzzy sounding one. And. And they're not the yes that they would be. When they finally retool and reemerge in 1969 under a new name. Name. The name yes. Apparently it's disputed where it came from. They. They realized Mabel Greer's Toy Shop wasn't making it. So they're like, what are you going to call ourselves? And somebody wanted to be say, well, we'll call it World. And then Pete Banks just said yes. Apparently he'd had the idea floating around for years. And there's like, yes, that's a great. That's a great idea. That's a great name. And that's the name of their debut album. It's self titled. It's just called yes. And in fact the COVID is pretty bad. It's just a, you know, black with a little thought bubble that says the words yes on it. But even though a lot of people are going to talk about how yes doesn't really take off until Steve how joins the band on a third album, I have a lot of time for this early era of yes because they represent what the band was when they were playing clubs. This is a young, hungry green band that does covers. But, by God, the covers that yes says during their earliest era are just some of the most fascinating and hilarious covers of all time. And we've done Episodes on our favorite covers. Yes has made those episodes. We've done Episodes where we find. I find reasons to shoehorn in the opening song of their career. And I guess this is where we start. We start with these five men. Pete Banks on guitar, Bill Bruford on drums, John Anderson on vocals, Chris Squire on bass. And we begin with Something's Coming. Coming. It's a Broadway cover from west side Story, of all things. The author of this is. Was Leonard Bernstein, who wrote it. I don't even remember. It's not a yes song, but it sounds like it could be a yes song. Because what they do, and this is going to be their approach for the rest of their entire career, really, is they will take a song, tear it apart at its roots, and reassemble it into something else. Something else that is only vaguely recognizable as that which it once was when they began with it.
- [28:40]
Unknown
Who knows there's something to any day I will know right away soon as.
- [28:49]
Scott Bertram
It shows you make cannonballing down the sky.
- [29:01]
Unknown
Who knows it's only just out of reach Down a block on a beach under a tree.
- [29:15]
Scott Bertram
Got a feeling there's a miracle you gotta come through Coming to me.
- [29:23]
Jim
Could it be?
- [29:24]
Unknown
Yes, it could. Something's coming, something good if I can wait.
- [29:33]
Jim
That, to me, makes a great band, a great cover band, and that's what made guests great in their earliest career. What do you guys just think about this first album? As clumsy as it is in so.
- [29:42]
Brad Birzer
Many ways, I. I really like it. I think it's great. It's not one that I go back to all the time. Certainly, I go back to the yes album and Fragile and Close to the Edge. I go back to T, actually more than I would go back to these first two albums, but it was great getting ready for this show. Going back, listening to those. I was really impressed with the bass. Playing Chris Squire on the first two albums, I think just sounds especially on the second album.
- [30:09]
Jim
He's the Dominant player on both of those. His bass that leads everything.
- [30:12]
Brad Birzer
Absolutely. And the interplay with Bruford's drums. And then I was also really impressed with Tony Key's keyboard playing on those first two albums. I, I guess I grew up being a Rick Wakeman fan. So I was always into Wakeman and I, unlike you guys, I didn't come to yes through 90125. So Tony Kay was back by then and Wakeman was out at that point. But I grew up with Wakeman and just on yes songs on the Six Wives of Henry vii. That for me was rock music, even though it was deep.
- [30:49]
Jim
The classical touch of Rick Wakeman is so different than the more kind of late 60s club based, sort of maybe bluesy R and B based B3 organ of Tony K. Tony K reminded me.
- [31:02]
Brad Birzer
A lot of Rick Wright, Pink Floyd at that same period. They have that same. Yeah, that organ, it's just beautiful, straightforward. And then it has such a psychedelic touch to it. And that's where I think, I guess, you know, they've definitely not reached their, their progressive phase yet. But there are elements of it. And I know, Jeff, you really like America and we'll get to that in a little bit. But you know, to me, you listen to something like America and what they do to it and, and that is almost the entire sound of a band. Phish. Phish seems to be. Have just taken what yes did with America and then just run with it as a jam band. And so that's again, when I'm listening to these early albums, it really is the bass and the organ that grabs me. I think John Anderson's songwriting is fine. I don't think it's great. I think it's fine. But I think it fits very nicely into that Psychedelic Air era.
- [33:10]
Jim
Well, it's interesting to think about who's doing the songwriting.
- [33:12]
Jeff Blair
Yes.
- [33:12]
Jim
Credits are almost always sort of collective. It's just the two to the band. But of course, like with most bands, the songwriters usually bring individual bits and pieces. Right. So like when Steve Howe joins, it becomes really obvious because there's just things that were clearly written by Steve Howell and not by anybody who had been in the band before. But here at this point, it's mostly Squier and Anderson. I mean, because those are the two writers. Bill Bruford was never a writer. That's why he made that joke. I get 5% for nothing. Just here's a little joke drone solo and I get paid for it. That's on Fragile. But here it's them and I have to say, like, there's some earnestness. By the way, this is the last time you'll even get like a John Anderson lyric that actually rationally scans. He's still trying to be understood here. So you get something like Harold Land, which is this anti war song. And I think people always make fun of it. It's the thing that opens side too, begins with a big Chris Squire bounce. Off to war we go marching herald land think World War I, right? I mean, surely this is the battle of, you know, like, you know, he. He went down, he was. He fought in the trenches and he survived. But, you know, there is no heart left in Harold Land. It's just so kind of goofy and on the nose. And you laugh at the lyrics that weren't for the fact that that melody is actually really good. The vocal arrangement is good. The whole. Doubting that he would Doubting that he would Doubting that he would. Right from the start, John Anderson knows what a weapon he has in his voice.
- [34:43]
Unknown
And with a wave of his hand Said goodbye to all that he paid his bills and stopped the milk Then put on his hat he tried to say his last farewells as quickly as he could Promising that he would return but doubting that he was.
- [35:24]
Scott Bertram
Doubted that.
- [35:35]
Unknown
In the Rain has on to all they love.
- [35:43]
Jim
I guess that's the other thing. You have to start just, you know, by considering the entirety of the band. Yes. You start with John Anderson's voice, right? It is singular. No one sounds like that. Everybody without any prior preparation heard that voice and thought, that's a woman. That's like Nancy Wilson of Heart, is it not? No, it's not. It's a dude. And he sings in what's known as counter tenor range. It's a range I used to have in my youth. Sadly enough I do not now. But I can still sing most yes songs because it's just a, you know, it's like a 1 in 100 thing where you have a placement that high in your natural range. Anderson was a freak of nature. I mean, he just sings and he has. He has the ability to sustain and keep power in that high range without burning his voice out. His voice still sounds okay these days. So yes, is is going to be built around so many individual contributions instrumentally and compositionally, but I think you really have to say, except for that one Buggles, period. It's based on John Anderson's voice.
- [36:46]
Unknown
Sunshine is creeping in and somewhere in a field a life begins an actor proud to rape the beginning of a shadow Shape of Things to come Let start to run Life has begun Life has come the mother flew too late and life within the earth was left to fade not really knowing how the world outside would take it when it came and life's the same for things we aim Are we to blame?
- [37:42]
Jim
That voice is. Especially during this. During the 70s. It's what's going to define these things. It's right here at the beginning. I think there's. Yes, it's a little bit primitive as an album. Right. You know, it opens with beyond and before, which is just an excuse for Chris Squire to demonstrate how awesome his bass amps are. But I really do love two things about it. Survival is the song everyone expects you to talk about. And if anyone wants to, they're. They're free to. I think it's an important track. It points the way forward. But it's not my favorite track on this record. My favorite track written by the band is actually the goofy clomping thing called Looking Around. It ends side one. It's big. It's just all Tony K, really. It's all organ, you know, and. And big, big happy major upbeat chords. And then that final ending where he goes looking around with my feet on that is a wonderful little anthemic chorus. The first time they wrote something. But of course, the best track on this record is the one they didn't write. And that's their cover of the Beatles. Every Little Thing is like a forgotten track on Beatles For Sale, which is like one of their more obscure, like, 1964 albums. When they were flagging in energy here, they turned it into the most comically ridiculous, ginormous, warmest, like, athletic rave up you have ever heard. This is Them at the Marquee Club. This is them on stage. Everybody is sweating. It's 105 degrees in there and everyone's going nuts. And Pete Banks is playing some truly furious soloing on that thing. And again, it's like six and a half minutes. I never need to hear the original Beatles version again because, frankly, just the opening minute and a half of guitar pyrotechnics on their cover of Every Little Thing is better than the entire original recording of that.
- [42:01]
Unknown
When I'm walking beside her People tell me I'm a kid Yes, I know I'm a lucky guy I remember the first time I was lonely without her can't stop thinking about her now Every little thing she does she does for me yeah and you know the thing.
- [42:36]
Scott Bertram
She does she does for me I.
- [42:41]
Jim
Have any thoughts on this one, Scott?
- [42:43]
Jeff Blair
I Like at the beginning of every Little Thing that you have the Day Tripper riff being teased.
- [42:49]
Jim
And they threw other songs in there, too. I mean, he did Norwegian Wood when they would play it live actually, too.
- [42:55]
Jeff Blair
You guys both have said most things that I had written down about this first album. You know, it. It's. This is an album that sounds of its time. It's. It's not futuristic, for lack of a better word. It's 1969. And yes, sounds like a band that's operating in 1969. Toy K's Organ sounds sounds like a guy playing organ on a band. In a band in 1969. And as much as Squire is a prominent part of this album, there's a ton of Tony Kay, too. His organ is powerful and melodic in a lot of places. Look it around. Jeff mentioned, I think it's the most accessible track on the record. That's one in which Kay has a really nice bluesy organ riff. And you mentioned Survival. I would say that that is probably my second favorite song on here. Squire's got a nice big bass moment at the start, which again leads into another K riff. And those two songs, I think, stand above the rest. And Every Little Thing you already mentioned is very fun, too. But there are also a lot of different styles here. There's some psychedelic stuff, at least leaning that way on the first two songs on the record. There's a very small, soft, very precious song, Sweetness Toward the End, which just sort of features Anderson's voice. And, you know, there's nothing necessarily wrong with it. I doubt having been introduced to all of this at one time. I'll be returning to this debut album all that often, but it's not embarrassing by any stretch. And you do see some of the seeds that would be sprouting on future records.
- [44:36]
Unknown
Yesterday's endings Will tomorrow Life Give you sun to put its strength into the.
- [44:49]
Scott Bertram
Season Survival Survival Live.
- [45:21]
Jim
A Long Time this is one of my favorite yes albums. I just. There's something about that, as you just say, it sounds like Tony K playing an organ in the late 60s. I'm here for that sound, that very kind of. Yes, it's a period sound, you're correct about that. But that's the period that I just desperately really wish go see concerts during. And I've never. Obviously I was born a decade too late for two decades too late for it, more than that. And so, yes, I'm very much into it. And that brings us, I guess, to the second album, same lineup. This is their follow up to the debut album which had middling success, as you might imagine. This is a band that. This. You know, even at the time, there wasn't much of a niche for this music. And what's the single? The single they released from it was Sweetness, which is not a very good song, in my opinion. It's just kind of like a gentle ballad. And it's probably one of the most forgettable things they've ever done. It's not even included on most compilations, Right. So the next thing they do is they say, well, we need to make a big splash. What's the way we can make our sound even bigger than it already is? Now, you might think the answer to that question is bring Steve Howe into the band. No, the answer was bring an orchestra into the band. And that gives us Time and A Word, their second album, and I think it's probably the most least loved album of their career. Just because the strings are really a mismatch on most of these songs. It doesn't even sound like they're overdubbed in time correctly. This is something that if you go listen to the song then, which is the second track on this album, it's actually a pretty good track. They played it live and it was. It burned pretty well when they played it live. It doesn't work on the. On the album. But these, like, answering strings that seem like a microsecond out of tune with the beat of the rest of the band, it all feels amateur in a way that. In an unfortunate way that puts me in mind of, like, From Genesis to Revelation by. By Genesis, which is a far more amateurish sounding band, to be fair. But it's just like, I don't know how you use strings that poorly.
- [47:33]
Unknown
Rules will be complicated Life will be consummated Hearts will be brought together soon in our minds forever.
- [47:53]
Scott Bertram
As long as we see there's only us who can change. It only has to rearrange it at the start.
- [48:12]
Jim
Now, the one exception to this, and I just want to mention this one before I let the rest of you guys talk about time and a Word for a moment, is that the first song on this album uses just. They pour out, they spill orchestra all over my early yes on the song. It's a Richie Havens cover called no Opportunity Necessary, no Experience Needed. And again, when I talk about the joy of early yes covers, this is a perfect, perfect example. I've heard Richie's original version. It's pretty good. It actually, it's. It tracks the melody pretty well. But what yes does to it is. Could be Considered obscene. Did it? If it were not to work so well. They throw on Hollywood strings, big crusty, you know, Tony K organ. And then it. Oh, it. It opens with the organ and then it goes into this giant, like, you know, repeating with the strings. And you think it's the corniest thing in the world. I. I swear to God I was listening to it for the first time because it's box set that. Yes, here's box set. And so like it was. Must have been 1999 or something like that. Sitting in my dorm room and laughing at myself thinking, I expect how the west is one to break out at any moment here. And that is exactly what happens on the song. It goes into that is. I don't know if it's actually how the west was one theme song. It's another one of those really famous Hollywood westerns. And why they made the same connection that I did is beyond me. But it's one of those moments where you kind of like click with a band immediately and you realize that they are on your same wavelength.
- [50:52]
Jeff Blair
Let me say a couple things before handing it off to Brad. The orchestra is an odd addition, but I think the songwriting is clearly better on the second album from the first album. I think there's a step up in a lot of places Then is a good song. I think Sweet Dreams is a good song. Prophet, Time and A Word. And Jeff had mentioned that there was a song. Can't remember which one you had pointed out on the first album. It's like the last time Anderson tried to be kind of literal with lyrics. But I think actually Harold Land. Yeah, Yeah. I think actually on here on Time of the Word, there are a couple places where he tries to be very in the moment. I mean, it kind of.
- [51:36]
Jim
Oh, you mean the title track. The title track where the answer to the quiz. I think it was Robert Chris Gal and his review said answer to title quiz is now and love. Yeah, because the time is now and.
- [51:46]
Jeff Blair
The word is love There's a time the time is now it's right for me There's a word the word is love it's right for me have you.
- [51:52]
Unknown
Heard of a time that will help us get it together again? I've been heard of the word that will stop us going wrong.
- [52:07]
Jim
When the.
- [52:07]
Scott Bertram
Time is near the word you hear.
- [52:12]
Unknown
When you get things in perspective Spread the news and help the world.
- [52:26]
Scott Bertram
All There's a time when the time is now it's right for me and the time is now There's a word and the word is longing it's right for me.
- [52:51]
Jeff Blair
But on there you have very late 60s lyrics. Love is the only answer, hate is the root of cancer. As long as we see there's only us who can change it, only us to rearrange it. And then on Sweet Dreams. Sweet Dreams can solve the future. And then later on you're gonna smile again, you're gonna laugh again, you're gonna love again. This is the most direct, I think Anderson is, at least in the stuff that I've heard. I don't think it's probably gonna get better later on in his lyrics. I mean it's the most sort of understanding, the most. The most transparent he is in his lyrics. And you know those, those songs I mentioned. I think those are the very good songs here. Sweet Dreams is just. There's no. I don't think there's any orchestra on that song. Which might be why it sort of stands out as one of the better ones. Just straight catchy pop with this circular guitar figure that pops up and then Dodk on the B.
- [53:47]
Scott Bertram
Anyhow, you're going to laugh again, you're going to smile again, you're going to laugh again. Sweet Dreams on the future Sweet Dreams divide the best. Sweet Dreams the soul future. Sweet Dreams.
- [54:27]
Jeff Blair
It's a really nice song. I like Time at a Word and actually both Time and A Word and Sweet Dreams are co written by David Foster who did a little guitar and little vocals on the record.
- [54:39]
Jim
A guy who was like a co member of an earlier John Anderson band. I think it was called the warriors or something like that. But yeah, just, you know, a friend of Anderson's.
- [54:46]
Jeff Blair
Time and A Word is just a very. It's a lovely, lovely melody and I don't think the orchestra gets in the way on that song. There's some nice accents towards the very end of the track. It's got just a very lovely, lovely melody. And you already mentioned then which. Which is not perfect. That's one where the organ, the orchestra don't. I don't say they clash. They don't really. Yeah, they're not in sync on that, on that song. But. But yeah, I would say the songwriting is better and I think there are some very nice tracks on top. Time at a Word I have to admit.
- [55:19]
Brad Birzer
And maybe I'm a little embarrassed about this. I really like this album and the strings don't bother me at all. But I will admit the first time I heard this album I wondered if the strings. I thought they were keyboards at first. I thought they were doing samples. I was really Impressed. I thought, my gosh, this is really high technology for the late 1960s. Until I realized it was actually real strings. So I was a little surprised by that. The COVID freaks me out of this. It is just blatantly pornographic and we're not at the Roger Dean stage yet at all. And yet it's got that kind of weird abstraction to the COVID that I find fascinating in the American cover, because this is like Blind Faith as well. Blind Faith had that kind of R rated cover too. It was past R. And the American cover, though, had Steve. Steve Howe on it. And that's really weird when you think about the album and what they were trying to do. Obviously how was. Was replacing Banks, but how it doesn't even show up on this album except for the. The picture. But I. I really like Then. I think Then is a great track. I love the Prophet and it reminds me a little bit of what Queen will do a little bit later, especially on a night at the opera A.
- [56:41]
Unknown
To man told a tale of yesterday Searching for the truth to life enough for just the way Finding pleasure from the s his ears didn't obey in his life A moment's pleasure never to.
- [57:05]
Scott Bertram
Delay he was lost and in his trust he found a new meaning Seeing.
- [57:20]
Unknown
Things in different lights his life was.
- [57:25]
Brad Birzer
Redeemed and I like Astral Traveler, which I think already hints at Starship Trooper in the lyrics and what he's trying to do with it. And I think Time and A Word is great. I will say this. This. When I've heard these versions live, like then live, I think they're much better than they appear on this album. I think they're really great tracks. And Time in a Word is good live as well. But overall, I. I really like this album and I appreciate what they obviously were trying to sound like the Moody Blues here with the orchestra. And it, it is very much a piece of its time. In fact, it's probably a year late for that, maybe, maybe two years late to have that kind of orchestra in it. But they'll try in the early 2000s with their album Magnification. And there, I think, more successful actually. And I agree, and it's very creative. But I'm not sure they could have done Magnification without having done Time and A Word earlier. I think it very much is a kind of logical sequel to it, even though it's. It's what, three decades later.
- [58:31]
Jim
You know, I've been listening to yes for, I mean, well over a quarter century now. And never, not once did I make the obvious connection that you just did, which is that this is their attempt to imitate the Moody's, the Moody Blues, who of course were having like, even.
- [58:45]
Jeff Blair
I wrote that down in my notes.
- [58:47]
Jim
They, you know, I mean, of course. And I know the Moody Blues too. So it's like I have no excuse. It's just, you know, sometimes you just don't connect obvious nodes in your mind. But yeah, clearly that is, you know, bringing the, you know, the days of Future Past kind of strings into that. And even the Moody's had moved on from that because they had started, you know, just letting Mike, you know, Mike Pinder, you know, with his Mellotron play it instead. And they I think realized that this was a dead end too. So what happens here is I think Peter Banks, who was their guitarist, the lead guitarist, and I thought, you know, did a fine job. You don't hear a lot of them on the second album. And the reason for that is he's probably already kind of fallen out with the rest of the band. Maybe they feel like that, that the corner that he would take them into is a dead end. So they fire him and they hey, I there a new guy. Actually don't know exactly how they found him. I don't know if it was out of the one ads or they'd run into him on the scene. But the guy they pick up is a guy who had had no real profile prior to this, who had really bad teeth prior to this though, and I think remained pretty spooky tooth for man, maybe even to the present moment. A self taught string bending genius by the name of Steve Howe. Steve Howe becomes not just the guitarist for yes. And boy, when you say guitarist, nobody got to play guitar other than him. Unless it was John Anderson dangling an acoustic guitar on stage. Steve Howe became the guitar show for yes. And there's a really good reason for that. Because this man was a self taught polymath, an autodidact when it came to the guitar. He wasn't just like he taught himself how to play, he taught himself how to play in multiple styles. How immediately brings a fluency to the sound of yes that had just not existed within the band before. The only person in fact in the group that, that he's probably more simpatico with with than most is Bill Bruford, their drummer, who's got a jazzer art, you know, at his core and, and likes subtlety and nuance. What, what Steve Howe could do is he could rock out with the best of them. He could also play you classical music he could play you honky tonk music, he could play you country and western music. And he loved doing all of these things, ideally, simultaneously. Simultaneously, if he could. And that is what is going to be the new element that enters into Yes's sound with their third record, the one that they. They feel like they have always acknowledged. They felt it was a rebirth for them as well, and they just called it the yes album.
- [61:56]
Scott Bertram
Smile upon your face Caesar's P, Morning glory city Human race on a sailing ship to nowhere Leaving any place if the sun had changed to winter Yours is no disgrace.
- [62:24]
Jim
Six songs on this, you know, four of them, probably from the radio. Yeah. I mean, at the very least, you know, at least two. You should probably know the whole record. It is the album that launched yes to mega stardom, first made their name in America, first made them household names anywhere else. And, you know, I guess at this late date, I'm a little bit tired of it, simply because it's just so overrepresented. But I'm not going to be the jerk who's going to tell you that the yes album isn't probably the place that you should start with the band. Yes. You guys want to take it from here?
- [62:59]
Brad Birzer
Yeah. I want to throw this in just really quickly as we transition from Peter Banks to Steve. How, obviously how is just amazing. And he's in. I agree with everything you said, Jeff, in terms of what a polymath he is, the kinds of things that he's doing, he's still, you know, yes is still. They just put out a new album in the fall a year ago, and I don't like the album that much. Mirror to the Sky, I think it's okay. But Steve Howe still sounds really good on it. And even if you don't like the album overall and wonder if it's still yes or not, Howe sounds amazing. But this is Peter Banks about his leaving. Yes. He says. And this is from an interview in 1991, he says, I was kicked out. One of the first of many, I might add. It was kind of brutal how it was handled. I was extremely unhappy about it, especially since Bill and I were sharing an apartment at the time. You imagine that's just rough. And Chris Squire was asked about it, and he said the motto of the band has always been, you'll see, perpetual change. That was his response to why Peter Banks was kicked out. But anyway, I just, I. I find this, this third album, again, what a weird cover. The COVID I just think posing with.
- [64:19]
Jim
Like, the top of a mannequin or Something. Yeah, Installation. It's very. Tony K's foot is in a cast for some reason. Like, none of it makes sense. And it's still works. It's all like dimly lit too.
- [64:31]
Brad Birzer
Yeah, dimly lit. And it's supposed to be a negative of a photo, but colorized. So, yeah, it's really weird. But. But the album is just incredible to the point where. So I. I grew up in Kansas and our radio station that we listened to was KICT 95T95. I still have just great memories of that station, the album rock radio station in the area. And they played Yours is no Disgrace, Starship Troopers. And I've seen All Good People so many times that I actually got a little burnout on the album because I've just heard it too many times. And coming back to it to get ready for this show, I was just reminded of how brilliant it is. I just. I think for me especially Starship Trooper is just incredible. I love the guitar work and I love the BAS work on it. I think Bruford's drumming is just fantastic. It's just a. It's a great, great song and it's a great science fiction song, obviously taken from Robert Heinlein. And I do think the lyrics have some coherence. I mean, it's clearly about someone who's lost in space at the time, but I think it's great trying to find his way home. I just think it's beautiful.
- [65:51]
Unknown
Possess to give or take away forever.
- [65:59]
Scott Bertram
All I know can be shown by your acceptance of the facts that show before you.
- [66:14]
Unknown
Take what I say in.
- [66:15]
Scott Bertram
A different way and it's easy to.
- [66:18]
Unknown
Say that this is all confusion.
- [66:24]
Scott Bertram
As.
- [66:25]
Unknown
I see you today in me I can also show with you and you.
- [66:31]
Scott Bertram
May follow.
- [66:45]
Brad Birzer
And I have a weird personal story, if you guys don't mind. I had my senior year of college, I had my wisdom teeth out, and I had them out in Kansas, and they were not closed up properly, so they got infected. When I was back at South Bend at Notre Dame for my senior year, and I had to go to a dentist on a Saturday morning and I didn't get any Novocaine, nothing. They just. They fixed all my teeth right there, but on the way. And I had to drive all the way across South Bend on the way there, I listened to the yes album. And so the whole time that they're performing this kind of surgery on my teeth, I have Yours as no Disgrace running through my head. And I have to say it was a great tonic for me at the time. So sorry for the weird story, did.
- [67:35]
Jim
You feel like a death defying, mutilated army gathering near?
- [67:39]
Brad Birzer
I did. See those lyrics mean crawling out of dirty holes.
- [67:42]
Jim
You're ragged, your morals disappeared.
- [67:45]
Brad Birzer
Absolutely. Yeah. So anyway, I love the album, Scott.
- [67:50]
Jim
I got about a billion things I could say about this one.
- [67:51]
Brad Birzer
What?
- [67:52]
Jim
You should go first.
- [67:53]
Jeff Blair
Well, it's here. Yes. Here's why I should go. Because Jeff said that he's a little burned out on it and Brad said, I've heard it a lot.
- [68:00]
Jim
I'm new to it though.
- [68:02]
Jeff Blair
I'm new to it. So let me bring the enthusiasm of a convert. This album kicks ass. This is awesome. This is great music. Music. And I was, I mean, much like Jeff, probably through Osmosis, heard some Rush through the years. I probably had heard Starship Trooper at some point. Maybe. Yours is no disgrace, but the only song that I really knew here is I've Seen All Good People. So everything else is essentially new to me. And Brad loves Starship Trooper. I talked to our friend John J. Miller. He said, oh yeah, Starship Trooper, that's my favorite yes song. And I'm the newbie, but I'm sorry, I like it. But of the four major pieces here, that's my least favorite of the four. Yours is no disgrace. I've seen All Good People and Perpetual Change. I like all three of those better than Starship Trooper, which is a fine song.
- [68:51]
Brad Birzer
Sure.
- [68:51]
Jeff Blair
But I like the other three even better.
- [68:53]
Jim
Choruses. For choruses.
- [68:54]
Jeff Blair
Yeah. So the first thing you notice when you hear the yes album is the sound is so different. It's pristine. That reverb and different sort of production ticks are gone. Everything is clean in your headphones or in your speakers as you listen and you hear each individual member very distinctly. Chris Squire's bass is turned up to like 11. It's very loud. It's very big in most of these songs. And then, you know.
- [69:30]
Jim
One of the people you can thank for that is Eddie Offered, who had previously been the engineer for yes. He'd worked with him on Time and A Word, I think, but by the time of this, he was basically their producer. And he kind of set the gold standard for sound. I mean, prog rock sound. That is where that. That absolutely present. It's almost to me defined. The sound of the classic rock radio is the sound that you hear on the yes album. The bass is just so jacked up. The organs burn, they're bright. Everything is set to 11.
- [70:01]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [70:01]
Jim
I guess maybe the one criticism there isn't a ton of subtlety on this record, but it doesn't need it.
- [70:06]
Jeff Blair
No. Well, okay. Yours is no Disgrace is great. And like I said, probably heard it six times at least in leading up to this. And I had another song that was going through my head and like, this thing has been borrowed somewhere else. And I finally figured it out this morning just in time for the show that, you know, Dun dun dun dun dun dun dun dun that was borrowed, I believe, by Mick Ralphs in Bad Company for Good Lovin Gone Bad. It's a very similar riff straight structure to it.
- [70:41]
Jim
I hear it now. I never thought again. Yeah, I hear it.
- [70:44]
Jeff Blair
And you know, to Jeff's point about the production, when you get about halfway through Yours Is no Disgrace and they bring back that opening salvo. It sounds like gunfire going off. The drums, the guitar, the organ, the bass. Everything is so clean and it just explodes. It sounds so good. And what I noticed immediately, too is what a difference Steve Howe makes in this band. Yours Is no Disgrace. He's playing three or four different styles. Styles. Sometimes in one portion of the song, you know, he's jazzy and he's bluesy. And he's also playing some country licks as well as you get toward the back end of the song. And then he sounds like Jimi Hendrix at times too, when you have that solo about. About 4:50 into the song, that sort of squawking guitar that he plays. That solo he plays.
- [71:33]
Unknown
Yours is no disgrace Yours is no disgrace.
- [72:02]
Scott Bertram
Tell me where you are Shining, flying purple I'll show you where you are.
- [72:26]
Jeff Blair
And of course, the very next song you get the Chet Atkins inspired finger picking on the clap. He brings an enormous amount of talent and texture to the band. I've seen All Good People. They covered a Stills song and they covered a Crosby song. So to me, this is their version of doing a csnny song. The acoustics, the harmonies, the recorders, simple bass drum at the start of it. And again you start to have. This is probably Eddie offer two things. Separation. The acoustics are in the left channel, the organs in the right channel. I love that little bit of care that's taken. I never caught that song before. Is presented. And what I also love about this song is, you know, the second half, the All Good people part. It's just 16 words repeated, right? But each pass conveys a slightly different emotion as they drop the key or change the inflection. And you hear how now playing just a kind of a blues rock progression with amazing soloing and even some, like, boogie woogie piano licks toward the Back end of that song too.
- [73:51]
Scott Bertram
I and.
- [74:14]
Jeff Blair
In Perpetual change Boy, I. I love that song. That's one of the great, great melodies. The, the, the. I think three times they bring back that same melody, you know, and there you are making it up.
- [74:27]
Jim
But you're sure just the chorus.
- [74:29]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, that's is I, I love, I love, love, love that is so appealing to me. And that part of a perpetual change where they. You have that sort of praggy guitar, organ, bass and then it starts to pan off to the left and the right channel gets replaced by a completely different full band arrangement. And so you're hearing two things happening at once as one replaces the other. Perpetual change I just love it. And again, it's an example of how just being so interesting playing the blues and that he plays a little jazzy and again those sort of countryish licks at the end. This is such a good album. I've really enjoyed heading Back to it multiple times every as we prepared for this episode. And to echo Jeff's point earlier, yeah, if you're looking for an entry point, the place to begin your. Yes. Journey, this is probably a really good place to do it.
- [75:49]
Unknown
As mist and sun are both the.
- [75:52]
Scott Bertram
Same.
- [75:56]
Unknown
We look on as pawns of their game they move to testify the.
- [76:05]
Scott Bertram
Day Inside out outside in Inside out outside in all of the way.
- [76:25]
Brad Birzer
I.
- [76:26]
Jim
Mean, I'm glad that we have have the perspective of somebody who's kind of fresh to this thing because look at how jaded Brad and I are. Like, oh, I've heard Starship Trooper and I've seen All Good People a hundred times. But no, this stuff is sort of the platonic ideal of what Prague music, at least commercially successful Prague music during its heyday was going to sound like. I mean, it was the addition of Steve Howe. The entire album is basically just a coming out party for him. There's like one track on this that doesn't feature the guitar as its primary selling point in one form or another. And that's a venture which, you know, coincidentally enough is the one track on the album that most people never talk about. It's okay, it's just a little jazzy piano number, but it's nothing very prepossessing. But then you just look at those interludes. Yours is no Disgrace is a song that I like, okay, on the album version, but after hearing yes songs, nobody I think ever cares about the album version again. But for me it was two tracks that just turned my head and one of them was on the box set and the other one Wasn't so the one that was on the box set. So, like, you remember, like I'm a kid, I'm 19 or 18. I'm listening to yes years. And, you know, it fades out with. Time is a word. It's time. Time is places. Time is right for me. The strings are going out. It fades into silence. And then all of a. And then it's John Anderson singing about Sister Bluebird flying high above. Starship Trooper is the yes song, I think, that truly rearranged my mind and actually made me have that uncomfortable confrontation with myself where I said, I really love this band. I have not heard a song that I think sounds this cool in a long time. And I. Even at the moment I heard it, I was like, well, these lyrics mean nothing. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It's these chord changes that mean something. The nobility, the sort of upward motion of the chord changes to Starship Trooper as it always seeks to ascend, to get off, to get, to stop being earthbound, to get to the stars as it goes up. And then it keeps going, rising, rising, rising. And then it goes to that long lyrical moment where Anderson sings, you know, speak to me of summer long winters longer. That whole something in time can remember the setting up of other roads to travel on in old accustomed ways. It all sounds like somebody's trying to mix Tolkien with science fiction. And on that level, I guess you could laugh at it, but the melody, the music, the instrumentality of it just sings.
- [79:38]
Unknown
Speak to me of summer long winter's longer than time Can I remember setting up above the roads to travel on in old accustomed ways I still remember the Tos by the water the proud sons and daughter that knew the knowledge of the land Spoke to me in sweet accustomed ways.
- [80:30]
Jim
Three part song it goes into that whole. Loneliness is a power that we possess to give or take away forever. The middle section, which is actually dates all the way back to the. The Pete Banks years used to be called for. And then it ends with that. It's all Steve Howe worm. It's just like one guitar sequence. It's like three chords and it just repeats and it repeats and it repeats one overdub after another, one overdub after another. And then that fiery explosion at the end with the guitar solo. Which also explains why it took forever for this to go into their live repertoire, because they didn't know how to do it with, you know, only one guitarist. But, my God, that. That song is the song that made yes as a band for me and that's why no matter how tired I get of the rest of this album, I'll never get tired of Starship Troopers. The other song I'll never get tired of is the one that I didn't find until I bought it. And that is Clap. You called it the Clap earlier, Brad. Fanboys would. Would beg to differ. It's not about venereal disease. The name of the song at the time was just called Clap. John Anderson muffed the stage introduction when he introduced it for like the first time. It's a live recording, which is what makes this hilarious. It's a live recording in the midst of this studio album and you wouldn't believe it was one man playing all of that. That is an acoustic solo guitar performance that sounds like three people playing together. Just shows you it's a show off. It's a showcase for Steve Howe's Virt. But what makes the Clap so impressive is that it isn't. Just look at how clever I am. Look at how, you know how much finesse I have with my chops. That's a song, that is a melodic song. It has verses, it has choruses, it has a. It has a thematic development and it just keeps unspooling itself into the end. It is such a well considered little instrumental. In fact, I consider it one of the greatest is we should do a Patreon episode on like greatest instrumentals.
- [83:07]
Jeff Blair
I see a light bulb going off. Yes.
- [83:09]
Jim
Put that one in your back pocket. This one makes the show for sure. It is one of the greatest instrumentals of all time. Not just because it's one man doing things with his fingers that no man ought to be able to do, but because it's on top of that just a well written song. That's why I love the yes album. Now, does anybody have anything left to say about this one? Do you want me to queue up more? Perpetual change.
- [84:42]
Brad Birzer
I just. Two things. Number one, if folks do go out and buy the yes album, I highly recommend they get the new Steven Wilson version. Stephen Wilson of Porcupine Tree has re engineered it, remastered. It sounds amazing in that version. So I. I would highly recommend that. The other thing.
- [85:04]
Jim
You know what the. The funny thing though is I am going to be the guy who disagrees with you. It's fun. I didn't. I didn't think it would come up, Brad. But here's the thing. Stephen Wilson. Stephen Wilson does these great remixes and usually he focuses on great Prague bands of the 70s. So he's done like, you know, Jethro Tall. He's done King Crimson. He's done Yes. I actually like most of his remixes. He's really sympathetic. He doesn't, like, amp it up. He doesn't ruin the dynamics or anything like that. But his yes. Remixes, almost uniquely for me, are unsatisfying because they're the only one of these groups where I'm just like, I don't think you can improve upon how that originally sounded. There was a chunkiness and a thickness to the sound of this album that I actually don't think benefits from being clarified the way that the remix does. I like it in its original form and I still think. Actually, I'd say the same thing for his remix of Close to the Edge and Fragile. Now, they're not bad, but I'm just saying, like, you aren't missing out if you just get the original versions of these records. Now, I'm sorry to interrupt, but what was the other.
- [86:08]
Brad Birzer
Oh, no, not at all, Jeff. Thanks for that. I also, I. I have a. A great quote here from Steve Howe in 1992. He said, they kept on insisting on calling it the Clap. I went through the roof. I just couldn't get away from the distasteful connotations of that title. Since it's one of my best P pieces. It's annoyed me a lot that it became known as the Clap. It had absolutely no reference to things like that. It's supposed to be about clapping along and enjoying. So anyway, I thought that was hilarious.
- [86:40]
Jim
I can just say it's the Clap because we're just going clapping. It's the song where you clap. I get it. I understand why he's prickly about it, but it just kind of amuses me to no end that all it took was one, like, muffed stage introduction that went onto the album for, like, entire generations of people to not. They've even tried to correct it. On the remixes, they edit out the part where John Anderson accidentally says the Clap. So this song is called Clap.
- [87:08]
Jeff Blair
That's great.
- [87:08]
Jim
Like, so Steve how really cares about this, but it's. Sorry, it's set in stone, Steve. I don't know what you. I can tell you. All right, well, that brings us to, you know, as. As Chris Squire's motto for yes is you'll see perpetual change. And that means that another person was. Was about to be jettisoned and that was Tony K on keyboards. I thought he did a fantastic job on these albums and I love that sound. Right. But there is no question that Tony Kay was not a guy who was going to be able to play in the same style as the man who took his place. None other than Mr. Rick Wakeman himself. Rick Wakeman, who I think we last had occasion to discuss back when we were doing our. Our David Bowie episodes. David Bowie Part one with David Linker. Right. And we were talking about Hunky Dory, which is just before this. He does that like early 1971. March of 71, I think is when he's doing the Hunky Dory with Bowie. And of course he splashes that album with some of the piano you're ever going to hear. And he was in a band called the Strobs. I think we're sort of a low key, you know, Prague group on the English scene at the time they brought him in. And just as adding Steve how immediately is apparent on the yes album, so too adding Rick Wakeman on keyboards becomes immediately apparent on 1972's Fragile.
- [89:17]
Unknown
Straight light Moving and removing Sharpness of the color sunshine Straight light Searching all.
- [89:26]
Scott Bertram
The meanings of the song. Word song, easy in the really fit you.
- [89:59]
Jim
Fragile, I think is. You know, it's funny I said the yes Al was probably your best intro. Fragile is probably the. Their most famous album, I think in terms of classic rock. There are at least two songs you will always hear on this record. And there's at least one further one that I do still hear even here on xrt. So it's become quite iconic for them. And again, this is one of those ones where I fear that overplaying it is in danger of ruining its reputation for me. Yes, snob. At this point I might as well just admit I'm a. Yes, snob. But again, Fragile is a fantastic record. And it begins with, I guess, Roundabout, which is the moment where Rick Wakeman first makes himself heard. Anybody want to talk about Fragile? Or maybe even just, you know, what they think the difference between Wakeman and his addition to the band means?
- [90:51]
Brad Birzer
I'd also say this, Jeff. It's not just Wakeman, it's now Roger Dean too, as the.
- [90:56]
Jim
Yes, yes, Roger Dean on the artwork that's so important.
- [91:00]
Brad Birzer
The COVID of the Earth with that ship, that weird organic ship, the old planing ship.
- [91:06]
Jim
Right, right.
- [91:07]
Brad Birzer
The fish. It's a gorgeous, gorgeous album. And even the interior art. And I've just got it on my CD right here. But even the interior art is just beautiful. And you've got the photos of the band that look okay, but next to that art, it's just incredible. And again, for me, long before I heard 90125 I heard fragile, and again, that's because I'm 56. And it's amazing to me as well. We haven't really talked about this, but this music is almost as old as I am. When we were talking about the yes album, it's worth remembering. It was recorded in 1970 and released in the late winter of 1971. That's 53 years ago. That's incredible. When we think about the production, the songwriting, everything that's going into it. And the fact that yes, at least in some incarnation, is still around is pretty stunning. Stunning as well. But I love Fragile Roundabout. I've never gotten tired of. Even though it was again, one of those songs that was played on T95 over and over again. Long Distance Runaround was played all the time as well, as was Heart of the Sunrise. These were three staples of my childhood listening to album Rock Radio. But I. I love the production of the album. How did you say his name? Jeff? It's Oford, Eddie. Offered.
- [92:31]
Jim
Is it offered? I don't know. I don't know if it's Oferd or.
- [92:33]
Brad Birzer
I say offered, I have no idea. But the fact that we have Heaven blending into south side of the sky, yeah, I think it's got the feel of Abbey Road for a bit of it, in the way that the song structure is put together and that we alternate between a band piece and then a solo piece and then a band piece. I just think the album is beautifully, beautifully put together and south side of the Sky. And I know you agree with me on this, Jeff, just because of our emails before, but to me, south side of the sky is. It's not as great as Close to the Edge, but it comes really, really close. And I had the privilege of seeing them play this live back in 2004 in Grand Rapids, and it was just stunning live. And it was this band lineup at the time that I saw and just absolutely, absolutely loved it. And they actually. They did it in between one of their more recent songs called Mind Drive. So they played Mind Drive. Yeah. And then they broke into south side of the sky and then they went back to Mind Drive. And I. I thought it was brilliant. I just. I absolutely loved it.
- [93:54]
Unknown
Mountain Sometimes Lost.
- [94:46]
Brad Birzer
But I also. And again, we may disagree on this, but I like the lyrics to this album as well. I don't know if Roundabout is actually about a roundabout, which of course in America at the time was unheard of. Now we have roundabouts everywhere. But, you know, back in 1972, there were no roundabouts. So I don't know what people thought about that at the time, but I think it's great. I love that the mountains stand in the sky. They stand there, right? I just. I think it's great. I love the whole thing around the lake.
- [95:21]
Jim
Mountains come out of the sky. They stand there. And of course, for me, that inevitably gets followed up by Mystery Science Theater 3000's Joel saying, Just say no to yes. Because that's the first time I'd ever heard that song. That was the one song on this record that's the big radio classic I wasn't familiar with until I got the box set. And everyone's like, well, wait, that's. Yes. His most famous song, Roundabout. Like, well, no, I. I just never heard it. Maybe it's the same way I never heard Rush. Like it would. It had been played, but I was simply zoning out at the time. And so I did not understand or appreciate it. And so for me, I guess I had that experience. I too, have not gotten tired of it because it wasn't ruined for me by overexposure on the radio at that point. And so, like, even though I know it's supposed to be their most famous song and I sound lame for saying it, Roundabout Rocks at Roundabout Rocks.
- [96:13]
Brad Birzer
Yeah.
- [96:17]
Unknown
I will remember you Just in the wedding we'll charge the view of distant.
- [96:26]
Scott Bertram
Atmosphere Call it morning driving through the.
- [96:32]
Unknown
Sound of Even in the valley.
- [96:36]
Scott Bertram
In an airplane around the lakes Come out of the sky.
- [96:49]
Unknown
We'Ll see you summers.
- [97:03]
Scott Bertram
Be there with you.
- [97:09]
Brad Birzer
I also, I. I don't want to dominate here at all, but I also. I love the Fish as Squire's bass playing is just astounding on that. And the fact that the trick for.
- [97:22]
Jim
This track, incidentally, is that, okay, so they. They were running short on time. They just replaced their keyboardist. So they had these group arranged pieces, the big tent poles of the record. And then the. The band members each came up with individual bits, right? And so we have. Heaven is. Is John Anderson's 5% for nothing is Bill Proofer. It's. Right. It's just like a weird drum solo. The one that Chris Squire does, though, is a little different. It's called the Fish. And everything you hear on that track, you might think, oh, those are guitars. There's a keyboard there. It's all bass, all of it, just different kinds of.
- [98:44]
Brad Birzer
And then the singing of the Latin.
- [98:49]
Jim
Chandelier, just great, you know, whatever.
- [98:53]
Jeff Blair
I mean, at least when I was listening a lot of times they would play Long distance, run around, and the Fish, they would just connect segue the two on the radio. And so that's, you know, I actually for a long time thought it was a single song and it's not. It's two different songs. Long Distance Run around and. And the Fish. This is another outstanding record. And to. To. Well, Jeff had mentioned Bowie because Wakeman plays on Bowie's record. And I had tweeted something when I was starting this album, which is when Roundabout begins. I'm never sure if it's Roundabout or David Bowie's fame because they both start with that same. Yeah, same thing.
- [99:35]
Jim
Yeah.
- [99:36]
Jeff Blair
Roundabout is fantastic. And Wakeman tradition brings with it a whole slew of different sounds because he plays different instruments. As I said, I didn't do a ton of research, but one of the things I saw was that Kay refused to sort of expand his palette of, you know, key based instruments. And Wakeman had no problems buying all sorts of different keyboards and organs and synths to play on a record like this. And his playing, I think, is more fluid, more elegant than Kay's perhaps. And you can see that in a lot of places throughout the record.
- [100:16]
Unknown
Run around long time waiting to feel.
- [100:23]
Scott Bertram
The sound.
- [100:27]
Unknown
I still remember that dream there I still remember the time you said goodbye when we really tell lies Legend in the sunshine.
- [100:55]
Jeff Blair
Roundabout's a great song, fantastic song. Again, an example of Squire's bass line just being such a central part of the band at a central part of this song. Just so heavy, a buzzsaw in places. And I love that really hard acoustic strumming in the left channel at the beginning of Roundabout. And then, yeah, Wakeman is so much more fluid and elegant in his playing on a song like this. And, and then late. Howe's got a great solo, Wakeman's got a great solo on the organ. And that's one of the most well known songs in the band's catalog. Long Distance Runaround is. Is again also a song that's been played over and over again. I, I like that tension. It is, you know, the verses are so tense, very taut. Hi hat from Bruford on the drums and sort of those stabbing lines of piano and that four note bass that do do do do do. You need that release when you get to sort of that chorus part where the bass becomes more lively and you have Howe's guitar sort of running all over the place. It's. It's a good juxtaposition of those two elements of the song that flows into the Fish, which is a fantastic song. And the other one that I'll mention, I'm sure Jeff has some thoughts. Heart of the Sunrise Man Frog bands can bring it. This is heavy, heavy, heavy stuff. Extreme dynamics, great structure, tremendous opening riff on guitar and organ. And I love Bruford's drums all over. Heart of the Sunrise, there's a part about seven minutes in instrumental section where it's really the rhythm, it's Squier and Bruford, the way they are swapping between that main, main heavy riff and then this other part that is sort of mood based. And they go back and forth and back and forth and it's just an incredible exhibition of how well they can command their instruments. And Anderson gets some great lines in Heart of the Sunrise 2 and really brings it home at the very end. Love comes to you Then after. And Short Distance and the very, very end. I feel lost in the city. Just a tremendous delivery of that line by Anderson. You get the main theme one more time at the end of Heart of the Sunrise, which is another triumphant. Yes. Tends to know how to end albums, and Heart of the Sunrise is no exception. Great way to end Fragile, which is, again, a fantastic album.
- [103:31]
Scott Bertram
Distance how can the wind with its arms all around me Distance how can the wind whistle me, me I feel lost in this city.
- [104:16]
Jim
We talk about knowing how to end an album. How does it end? It goes pause and then the door opens again. Tell the moondog, Tell the march Hair Tell the moondog, Tell the marcher which kind of gets to a point that I wanted to say, which is that Fragile is a really incredibly well sequenced album on an album that actually disguises some of its weaknesses with the brilliance of how it presents what it has. And so, you know how they have these, you know, these solo bets and they could seem a little bit disjunctive and not. Not of, you know, a piece with the rest of the band work. And yet it all works as a fl. Even though it doesn't have necessarily a logic, it has a dream logic to it. You know, that whole, like, you know, the we have heaven bit that Brad talked about. Tell the Moondog, tell the March Hare. And it's this soaring thing. You're going to heaven. You're going to heaven. It's like transcendence. It's Hare Krishna, Harry. Hare Krishna. But then you hear clomp, the door slams and then it goes to south side of the sky, which is the opposite. It's Yes's version of no Quarter by Led Zeppelin. And it's the way I think about it, and I think it's a far more so successful tune, you know, It's a song about a person essentially freezing to death. I think of, like, polar exploration, like the Arctic void, something really dark, grim midnight skies, you know, the. You know, the ends of the earth that you see on the COVID of that album. And that song, to me, has always been, you know, to me, the key moment on. On this record on Fragile, you know, just in terms of its sprawl, because it's an atmosphere piece. You have that almost. There's like a storm in the middle, thunderclouds, there's rain. And then you have this long Rick Wakeman piano says you're. Which is that Tim, to me, the spotlight moment he gets on this album, everything there, even though he didn't write it, it's an Anderson Squire song, but, my God, what he does in the middle there. And then they start singing, la la la la la la la la la la. Again, when I tell you that the most eloquent moments of Yes's discography sometimes don't have lyrics, this is exactly what I mean when I say it. Now, I know, Scott, you also mentioned Long Distance Run around, but I do want to say a little bit about that. I actually think of it. It's. It. It's far better just as its own song, without being connected to the Fish. Because to me, this is everything I love about yes as a quirky art rock band. This is a miniature. It's a cure, it's egg of a song. Everything about it is irregular. Everything. The rhythm, the melody, the key, the pitching. I use that song as an audition piece sometimes, just because, again, it's one of those things, if I can sing it, I've already proven something to you, which is that I can hit that range and you can't, you know, and you really got too far. I mean, you get. You get to the high notes there, you're hitting G's and A's and you know, you, You. You've passed your test. And I just don't know of any other group that made a song that sounds like Long Distance Distance Run Around. When I first heard it on that yes year's box set, they edited as well. There was no Fish. No, no, no. There was. They had the Fish on that one. It was the next one that. Where they had cut it out. But I just like it on its own terms because to me, it's everything about yes. They would do this later on on going for the one which we'll talk about in our next episode, where they can take all of their genius and compact it. Same reason I always love Herald the Barrel by Genesis, which is like you take suppers ready, you put it in a garbage compactor and then you get a two and a half, three song that has all of the oddity of one of those longer tunes. This to me, that's Long Distance Run around and that's. That to me is, you know, again, along with south side of the sky on the sprawling side, on the compact side, this is where the genius of that album is focused in a very fittingly. It's right around the center of the record.
- [110:13]
Unknown
Cold summer listening.
- [110:19]
Scott Bertram
Hot color melting the unmuted star I still remember the dream bear I still remember the time you said goodbye did we really tell lies Waiting on the sunshine? Did we really count to 100?
- [110:50]
Unknown
Looking for the sunshine.
- [110:54]
Jim
Do we have any thoughts on Fragile before I just take a moment to talk about the greatest Paul Simon cover ever.
- [111:01]
Jeff Blair
Go ahead.
- [111:02]
Jim
Just a moment. Just a moment. Okay, so folks, remember I talked earlier in the episode about how yes was such a great cover. Ben during their early phase. Well, one of the covers they had in their repertoire back during that Pete Banks, Tony K phase was Simon and Garfunkel tune off of Bookends, which we discussed not so terribly long ago. And of course I'm talking about America. We've all gone to look for America. Now, if you remember the Simon at Garfunkel tune, it's a very wispy, thoughtful folk song with a little jazz interlude and all of that. Yes. Have no time for any of that subtlety. They sandblast all of the nuance away. They turned this into a gigantic Prague showcase for chops. I've heard live versions of it that are 16 to 25 minutes long. This one is a judicious 10. 10 minutes long of Rick Wakeman, new into the band, but mostly Steve Howe, just going nuts trying to find as many excuses to fit solo spots and gloriously goofy, like, melodic ideas into what was supposed to be a very somber song about Paul Simon. You know, lost, searching for the meaning of America. Yes. Or Brits. They couldn't care less about that. They just want to have fun with the melody. I love this.
- [113:37]
Brad Birzer
That's why, and I had mentioned earlier, I. I still think all of Fish's sound comes from that song. I. I just think it's what makes them distinctive as a jam band.
- [113:48]
Jim
Make it a carnival. Exactly. You know, that's what that song sounds like. America sounds like a carnival. Just the way it begins. The Rick Wan playing that sort of like fairgrounds organ in the background. Nice Their take on America could only come from British people. It is definitely not the American take on America. That' I love it. I guess this brings us to Close to the Edge now. Now what happens here? For once we have continuity in the band lineup. Same, same guys, same gang here. And they are now going to try to top themselves. After done the yes album, then they've done Fragile. Now they want to do what has sort of become, I think, by 1972, sort of the. The prog rock Everest, which is, you know, you have to do a sidelong song. I mean, what kind of a prog rock band do you think you are if you haven't done a sidelong song? Soft Machine did it back in 19. They did four. They did. This is talk about a bad precedent. Soft Machine's third in 1970 was a double album with four tracks. Yes was going to pay attention to that theme for later, later albums, but for here they were probably looking more to groups like King Crimson, who owned Lizard, for example, had already put out a sidelong track. And so they come up with something they call Close to the Edge. This is an album that has only three songs on it. And I can talk about David Bowie takes me back to a comment I made about David Bowie, Station to Station, which in its generosity had a full six songs. I said, listen, if you have only six songs on an album, all six songs better count. You have very little margin for error. And so on an album with only three tracks, you have even less margin for error. Somehow, yes pulls it off. A lot of people would say Close to the Edge is the greatest achievement of their career. I don't know if I'm going to argue with them. I think it is as well. But what do you guys think about 1972's Close to the Edge?
- [118:12]
Brad Birzer
Well, I just. Right before we met today to do this show, I jotted down what, at least today would be my top five albums of all time. And in no order, I have the Underfall Yard by Big Big Train, Close to the Edge by Yes, Selling England by the Pound by Genesis, Moving Pictures by Rush, and Color Version Spring by Talk Talk. And so for me, Close to the Edge is pretty much perfect. I don't know if there's a flaw in the album at all. And one of the things, again, this is probably my age, but especially when I was in my 20s and my 30s, I tried so hard to decipher John Anderson's lyrics. I was obsessed with his lyrics and trying to figure out what they mean. And I still don't know exactly what they mean. And I'm probably more skeptical now in my 50s than I was in my 20s and 30s about all of this. But one of the things that I came up with in Close to the Edge is that there's a kind of almost reformational theme in terms of religion. And Anderson is the only original member of the band who was raised Catholic, Roman Catholic. Their family later converted to Church of England, and then Anderson became Methodist. And now I don't. He's. He definitely believes in God, but it's kind of a pantheism in whatever Anderson is. Is saying about God. But it's interesting to me that.
- [119:44]
Jim
I mean, that was already baked in when he converted to Methodism, if you ask me. But. Okay, that's. That's my obscure religious joke for the day.
- [119:50]
Brad Birzer
Thanks, Jeff. You know, you look at some of the lyrics and especially, you know, this idea in Close to the edge. Two million people barely satisfy 200 watch one woman cry too late the eyes of honesty can achieve how many millions do we deceive each day? I get up, I get down I get up, I get down and I've always thought of that especially because we have this reference to the word and holding it in my hand, I've always thought that was a reference in some way to Mary and to her description of what it was like to be at the crucifixion. And then if you jump into and you and I, you have this weird moment where you have the sad preacher nailed upon the colored door of time, the insane teacher to be there, reminded of the rhyme. And again, I think of someone like Martin Luther who nailed his theses on the cathedral door at Wittenberg. And it was because of that rhyme that Tetzel had the Dominican, about putting your. And I don't remember exactly how it goes, but you put your coin in the coffin offer and you get to heaven at that point. And then in Siberian Khatru, there's actually a mention of Luther in Time, right? River running right on over the outboard river Blue tail, tail fly Luther in time. So I'm always wondering, talk about Christian.
- [121:18]
Jim
Changers as well at the end of that, right?
- [121:20]
Brad Birzer
Yeah, absolutely. Christian changer called out savior Moongate climber Turnaround glider.
- [121:53]
Scott Bertram
As long.
- [122:28]
Brad Birzer
Maybe this is all nonsense, but it's always struck me that this was Anderson's way of kind of talking about at least Christian symbolism in. In an album.
- [122:40]
Jim
I mean, that's the thing. I. I've never known what it means when John Anderson's coins and crosses. Never know Their fruitless worth Cords are broke and loc inside the mother earth I don't know what it means. All I know is that when he gets to that line where he sings. Watching the world, Watching all of the world Watching us go by and you and I, you know, and you and I Climb over the sea to the valley and that's just a beautiful folk moment to me. A melody that just sings. It sings beyond what the words are. And in fact, the vagueness of the words, the indirection. I think maybe the one. The way we have to charitably understand John Anderson's lyrics is this is a guy who got really big in a hotel room and just thought, I'm gonna find the most backdoor way to write about my obsessions. Because that sounds cooler than just saying, you know, the world's in a tough place and I think we should all get.
- [124:10]
Scott Bertram
You.
- [124:11]
Unknown
And I reach out reasons to.
- [124:17]
Brad Birzer
Call.
- [124:27]
Jim
I actually don't mind it because of the sort of. Because it's almost so silly in his word choice, or so I guess, sort of, you know, aggressive, poetic and vague and it's attempted profundities that it allows it to mean anything to us. It allows it to mean anything to me. And again, I go back to the thing that I mentioned right at the start of the show. When I hear this album in particular, Close to the Edge, which I consider to be nearly perfect as well. I. I think of listening to an Italian opera, or I think listening to, you know, a German or Wagner or something like that. I don't know what the words mean. I can look at a text and study it and see what it's supposed to mean. But I react to the. I react to the melody. I react to the sound of the voice as another instrument in the ensemble. And I look at a song, the title track, Close to the Edge, you know, I think there's a lot of great Prague songs. And what a great, you know, single side. Prague songs in particular. You think, Thick as a brick. Hey, it's a single album. Prague song, if you think about it in that way. Supper's Ready. Not quite a single side song, but still pretty great. You got, you know, King Crimson tried it with Lizard. I don't love that one as much. I definitely love Moon and June by Soft Machine, but the greatest one ever made, in my opinion, that I've heard. Yet it remains close to the Edge. And it's just, for me, for such easily explainable reasons as well. Close to the Edge as a song, not just the album as a whole, because there's side two, but the song itself, which is all of side one, is a sonata in rock form. And it actually adheres to the classical format pretty faithfully. And it does. Does it in a way that doesn't even draw attention to itself. The song makes rational sense in your mind long before you have ever understood why it should or does make sense. In fact, it was so, like. Like, burdensome to put together. That's a song that was stitched together, maybe like, second for second from, like, various recordings the band made in the studio. Arguing over, like, which beat goes next, which chord change goes next, which section do we go into next? This is Bill Bruford's last run with the band. He was like, I'm done with this. I'm. He went and joined King Crimson, which was going to give him all sorts of other nightmares later on in life. It's hilarious. He's like, I'm not happy with my work situation. I'm going to go work with Robert Fripp. That's not a formula for, like, you know, a happy workplace situation. However, you know, he's done some great music with, obviously with Crimson as well, but he had enough of the difficulty of assembling Close to the Edge. It doesn't matter. The effort that they gave was enough because the result is a song in its format goes through four distinct sections, right? And they're all pretty clearly delineated. You have the. The total mass retain. You have the. What was the. I don't want to call it. What's the middle part? You know, there's a season. I get up, I get down Seasons of man Total mass retain. And you have, you know, four sections. And each of them makes sense, and none of them is easily graspable at first. This is when I told Scott said, you need to give more time to yes Than you think you do. I was thinking specifically of this song. So I guess I just want to ask, do you think this is as good a TR track as I do? And if you don't, what is it that I've been missing for the last 25 years?
- [128:07]
Unknown
All the color of the sky Passed around a moment Clothed in mornings Faster than we see Getting over all the time I had to worry Leaving all the changes Far from far behind we relieved the tension Only to find out the master's name dad.
- [128:33]
Scott Bertram
Down at the edge Round by the corner Close to the edge Just by the river Seasons will pass you by I get up, I get down now that it's all over and done now.
- [128:54]
Unknown
That you're fine now that you're home.
- [128:57]
Jeff Blair
Oh, I, I, I I think it's excellent, excellent. And it's really hard for me to love a track that's what's 18 and a half minutes long, whatever it might be. But I think to its credit, as Jeff points out, each of those sections are very clearly delineated. There's a wonderful structure to the song and I think it's the I Get Up, I Get down part where you're trans ported, right? We have this mood set by the Mellotron and we hear drip dripping water in the background.
- [129:39]
Jim
It's like you're in a subterranean cavern, right?
- [129:41]
Jeff Blair
And then there's a church organ. Then you get the organ and those two different vocal melodies, one by Anderson, one by Howe and Squire.
- [129:49]
Jim
How.
- [129:49]
Jeff Blair
And Squire in her white lace and Anderson does the I get up, I Get Down. It's just beautiful construction there. And then those vocals, those beautiful vocals segue directly to Wakeman's church organ, which is magnificent. And that builds to a climax. And in the last, what, four minutes or so, the Seasons of Man part, where the band thumbs back in and Wakeman is just doing crazy stuff on organ and keys, there's a great buildup, a great cathartic release in the end. Final time, you hear I Get Up, I Get down and the final, final vocals. I listened to it again multiple times. Those final vocals have almost a celestial reverb on them. Maybe to buttress Brad's point, there's just a wonderful sort of heavenly reverb on Anderson's vocals right at the very end of this song. It's so well done. Everyone has a spotlight. Squire's bass at the beginning of the song, the Seasoned Witch Could Call youl just swooping in and out. Everyone gets a chance to contribute and participate and it's, it's just so well put together. So, yes, I, I, I gave it a lot of time and ended up liking it quite a lot.
- [131:10]
Unknown
In charge of who is there in charge? The truth is written all along that.
- [131:29]
Scott Bertram
Page.
- [131:32]
Unknown
How old will I be before I come of age? I get up.
- [131:43]
Scott Bertram
I get down.
- [131:46]
Brad Birzer
I.
- [131:47]
Scott Bertram
Get up I.
- [132:18]
Jim
I mean, the thing is, first of all, there are two things to note about Close to the Edge. First of all is that that's probably Rick Wakeman's greatest piano solo, keyboard solo with the band, when he goes to the Wang wang, wang wang dang dadang dadang da dang da dang dang dang and then it breaks into Wakeman on the keys, just going for about six, seven Bars. It's magnificent. And it's. The thing is, for a moment it feels like jazz. It feels like it's jazz in the middle of Prague. When you don't associate yes. With either free structure and you don't associate Rick Wakeman with that style either. And then he pulls it off. He kind of manages to top himself. And you know, the other thing you don't associate yes. With reggae, because that's the point I need to make about this song Close to the Edge is that the fundamental structure of the rock parts of this song are reggae based. There is the offbeat emphasis on syncopation that is. Is absolutely. Although it has been completely classicized by Rick Wakeman's influence in the band's Prague, you know, front elections. That's totally a reggae beat on Close to the Edge. And nobody else seems to realize it.
- [133:36]
Scott Bertram
Between Close to the Edge.
- [134:21]
Jim
Again, talk about playing in different. Different modes. Because then, you know, the last song on the album, the one that we really haven't talked about nearly enough, is Siberian Katru, which is, by the way, the last song on this record. They would use it to open all of their shows from this point on for the next several years.
- [134:34]
Brad Birzer
Stravinsky.
- [134:35]
Jim
Why? Yeah, yeah, After. After the Firebird Suite. Right. Which we'll talk about in a second. But man, I'll tell you what. They've never. Actually. Nothing ever sounds quite as good as the album version of Siberian Catri just because of that opening guitar line that Steve how plays. That's the fiercest lick in his entire repertoire, in my opinion, where he just. He does a little fret slide, that chicka chicka. He's Prague, but he's so fluid. What we think of as like a more loose, unlimbered style of rock, that seeing his style fit into the yes sound is just so thrilling. And I think it is the. The secret key to what makes them singular during this era.
- [135:18]
Jeff Blair
That's a really fun song. It.
- [135:20]
Brad Birzer
It.
- [135:20]
Jeff Blair
And it really swings, especially that first part up to the. To the minute mark where you start to get into the main verse by Anderson again. Squire is just so prominent in the mix. There's great. There's great tension off and on through the song when you sort of have the bass guitar and the. Like a. Like a ticking clock in various places. There's a harpsichord solo in this song which works just brilliantly. And again, to say something nice about Steve Howe, there's a spot about four minutes in where he's playing, I think, against himself with both electric and pedal steel and Sort of swapping licks back and forth. It's just brilliant. And. And then you get to the very end where they get even more aggressive and more attacking. It's really one of the harder edged songs in the catalog and I completely understand why it would make sense as a leadoff track for live shows.
- [137:38]
Brad Birzer
Oh, just two quick things. Once again, the artwork for Close to the Edge at the COVID The album is just a blur because it's Close to the Edge, but. But the interior art follows the themes of Fragile and is absolutely gorgeous. And I also. I just want to bring up. This is what John Anderson said about his lyrics for Close to the Edge to the song. This is from a 1973 interview. He said there are several lines that relate to the church. Churchgoers are always fighting about who's better and who's richer and who's more hip. Now I have to just interject, this is me, Brad. I've never had that fight at church. So this is a new one to me. But he says, so at the end of the middle section, there's a swing.
- [138:22]
Jim
In London area church. Different expectations.
- [138:25]
Brad Birzer
He says at the end of the middle section, there's a majestic church organ. We destroy the church through the moog. So that's. That's Anderson's take from 1973.
- [138:38]
Jeff Blair
Hun it?
- [138:39]
Jim
Yeah, it's that wang, wang, wang, like the alarm bell ringing. And now you're back into the chaos of the end of the song. Yeah, but Speak. Yeah, but speaking of great live albums and great live introductions, which you're talking about. Siberian Counter. This brings us to one of. One of the last albums we'll be discussing today. And this one, I think will. There'll be a little bit of a fun two on one division here because I know Scott has never been a fan of live albums ever. So he's also never, up until this point at least, been a fan of yes. So I just can't think of anything that he would like less than a triple live album of yes songs. And that's what this record's called. Yes songs. There. This is the era where, you know, prog rock bands were famously releasing super indulgent three lp, two lp, four LP sets. Chicago. Oh, God, that Chicago live album, that's. That's a crime against nature. But. But this one, which has gone. I mentioned earlier, Scott, I thought this one also made the 50 worst albums list. I thought they included yes songs.
- [139:43]
Jeff Blair
I don't remember. I don't rem.
- [139:44]
Jim
It might have been like a little bit lower in the rankings. But I just always remember this one coming up with a toxic reputation when I was a kid. Like, oh, this is, you know, as. As bad as yes is. Could you imagine them going on for two and a half hours of prattling on with. And I. I just imagined endless self indulgence. Drums, solos, you know, dead air. I don't know what I imagined. I imagined the worst live album of all time. As it turns out. This very poorly recorded, by the way, to be fair. Triple album by yes, yes Songs, which is basically the greatest hits of their entire discography of the last three records. It's basically where I turn to first if I want to listen to yes these days. I know all the studio songs. But me being a live snob the way I am, I always love live music. I love the energy of this record. I love the excitement of it, I love the thoroughness of it. To be honest, I do not mind that one bit. And I just honestly like the fact that I want to hear every one of these tunes played in this live version more than I want to hear them on the original studio ones. Even though I came to this much later. Unlike Brad, who came to it first. But I know Brad, since you are a huge fan of it as well, I mean, why don't you tell us about. About the. The album that I think most people treat as the unnecessary part of the yes discography, but I think we both agree is pretty darn necessary.
- [142:05]
Brad Birzer
Well, I think it's hilarious. I am clearly that nerd geeky guy that you guys were making fun of earlier. I played Dungeons and Dragons. This was the first. I was too.
- [142:15]
Jim
I mean, come on.
- [142:16]
Brad Birzer
This was the first album that introduced me to rock music. And I used to just pour over Roger Dean's illustrations, which again continue the fragile and close to the edge themes. And I absolutely love them. And I loved, you know, came with a big booklet the three albums did and it had all the guys photographs and I just, I, as a kid I obsessed over it. So there's just no way I could be objective about this album at all. Because again, this, this to me is rock music. This is what I know from. From my earliest memories. This is it. And what I find now though going back to it and I guess, you know, I probably listened to it times that the recording doesn't bother me. I'm sure you're right, Jeff, that this.
- [143:04]
Jim
Is poorly got a nice little psychedelic period charm to it. Just like a lot of the music.
- [143:08]
Brad Birzer
That's right.
- [143:08]
Jim
I mean to me it's like Part of Yes's sound, you know.
- [143:11]
Brad Birzer
And roughly a decade ago, Progeny came out, which was.
- [143:16]
Jim
This is a box set. Remixes all the time.
- [143:19]
Brad Birzer
I bought all that. I've got all that. And I love that. And I realize that recording's better, but there's still a charm to yes songs. I mean, even the COVID the psychedelic cover of the Mushroom, it's just. It definitely fits it.
- [143:34]
Jim
Sudden disguise, what it's on about.
- [143:36]
Brad Birzer
No. And, you know, one thing we haven't talked about, even if John Anderson's lyrics don't make sense, there is a real liturgical quality to Yes's music. And this album, you can feel it's a secular kind of mass. They are definitely doing something religious, not. Not only opening with the Firebird Suite, but then in the way that they sequen their tracks so that you get on side one and you and I. And it ends with Roundabout. And then on side. Or this is on the. I'm sorry, on the CDs. And then disc two. Right. To start with I've Seen All Good People and end with Starship Trooper. These are just. This is incredible. And I think it really is kind of a secular mass in the way that they're exploring this. But one of the things I love. And even though the production may not be great, the fact that they could do all their vocal harmonies live and, you know, I can see doing that in the studio. But to sing All Good People, I've seen All Good People in the way that they do on this live album. I think that's just astounding. You know, I.
- [144:45]
Jim
Obviously what the Progeny box set really brings home. And it's good to see it. Is it like. Well, they sounded exactly. It wasn't like. I'm sure they. They tweaked. Yeah. Like, for example, on Yours is no Disgrace. They edited some of the intro solo out a bit, but they didn't really fix the vocals. That's how sound. I mean, they can pull that off every night.
- [145:26]
Scott Bertram
Down the lake.
- [145:41]
Brad Birzer
And that's part of what. Even when you jump up to 1090125, you know, and you've got Leave it on side two of that album, you know, it's. It's that vocal that, to me, is what made that. I know we'll talk about that in another. Other show, but that's what made that album. And I just think that. Yes. You know, Scott said earlier they sound a little bit like Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young. I think that's just. I think that's their real excellence. Is when they can sing like that.
- [146:11]
Jim
Scott, I know this is your favorite album of the entire show.
- [146:13]
Jeff Blair
Well, look, it's got. It's got a lot of things going against it. And the most prominent thing for me is the sound quality. I understand that you mean not the.
- [146:26]
Jim
Fact that it's live. I mean, because that's usually what you usually have going against it.
- [146:30]
Jeff Blair
Well, I don't necessarily enjoy live recordings that aren't incredibly well recorded. Right. And so that is one of the strikes that it has going against it. And you know, I'm not a big live music or live album fan. As we've talked about previously. I did not spend as much time with guest songs as the studio recordings. So I leave open the possibility that there's something that will jump out at me. But on the first glance, the first run through it was a bit of a difficult listen.
- [147:06]
Jim
Well, I mean, I get it. It does sound like it was recorded on a gym sock. Right. And there's just something about the mixing. You know, technology apparently made it difficult to fix at the time. That's why the remix is worth hear. I still like this on a murky, claustrophobic sound of the original record. And it's these performances that I just keep coming back to. You know, Brad's already mentioned some of them, but I have to talk for at least a little bit about. Well, it ends on Starship Trooper, which is like the first time they'd ever even played the song live because, remember I was telling you earlier, they didn't really know how to do it. They figured out how to do it with Rick Wakeman in the band because he, with his keyboards, could add all those extra guitar. He could fill in for what the guitar might be doing at the end of that song in a way that they, you, Tony Kay, wasn't going to be able to do. And so it sounds great on this record. It's the thing. But nothing compares to me to yours is no Disgrace, which is, you know, I've mentioned it a kind of hinted at it a couple times. Definitely one of my top five songs at the end of this show and it's in this performance. And why this performance? Yeah, the murk of it makes it just sound even better. It's like a stolen moment. It's like I'm seeing Bigfoot stride across the landscape and I just managed to whip my camera out to cover it and like, oh, it's not perfectly clear, but, oh, I know what it is. I saw and I know what it is I hear and I Hear Steve Howe and Rick Wakeman going to town on this ridiculously fun, kind of like barrel house, honky tonk frog rock intro before they get into Yours Is no Disgrace. Now here's the other thing to remember. Alan White is the new member of the band. Alan White on drums. I didn't mention him before, but Bill Bruford left and they brought in Alan White, who was not some nobody he'd already been playing with, like, you know, John Lennon. George Harrison had a slew of credits to his name, really competent drummer and obviously slotted it immediately. Well with yes man could technically do anything they asked of him. Turned out to be a pretty creative guy as well. All right, but this is his debut with the band and instead of playing it stiff the way that they used to play Yours Is no Disgrace. That cold opening, instead they turned it into a shuffle and chugging boogaloo. And that song just rockets. No wonder it was the encore. No wonder it's saved to the end of the show. It is one of the most exciting live performances I've heard by any artist at any time in my life. And I'm just really glad that, like my impression of it as a 19 year old kid, thought I was supposed to hate this album, said to myself, wait, no, that's actually one of the coolest things I've ever heard in my life. It still holds up. At age 43, I wasn't just a young youthful blush of enthusiasm. There's some real quality on this record.
- [150:58]
Brad Birzer
Yeah, I agree. Just to. To back up your point, Joe Jeff. In a 1995 interview, Chris Squire said, we had tried to play Starship Trooper a few times and it never ever worked live. Not until years later did it start to click. At the time we had put it on the yes album, we never played it live. It wasn't until close to the edge that it started to happen. Maybe it was because Alan White was in the band.
- [151:22]
Jim
So there you go and made it work.
- [151:25]
Brad Birzer
And of course, Alan White just passed away. Not, you know, within the last year, a couple years.
- [151:30]
Jim
Was it last year?
- [151:31]
Brad Birzer
Year, Yeah, I think so.
- [151:32]
Jim
I mean. And the first studio album he records with the band. Yes, is, I guess, how we're gonna end this show. And boy, will it be ever be a controversial ending. So this is one of the most famous, infamous albums of all time, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, I am talking about none other than Tals from Topographic Oceans. A studio album. A studio. Studio double album. A studio double album with four songs, one to a side. That's right. There's no bands on these grooves, my friend. You put the record stylus down and you just sit down for the next 25 minutes and then you flip the vinyl. Was it gonna work? I don't think it could have ever worked. All I know, though, empirically, for a fact, is that it didn't work, because the album we have doesn't. And this is the one that Scott mentioned. This is like number two, maybe of the worst albums of all time. And that book that we grew up with as a kid, I don't think it even remotely merits being rated that highly is a bad album or that low. I don't know how you want to characterize it. It's not that bad by any means. But there is no question in my mind that. That it is a failure. It is over ambitious, overweening. It tries to do too much. Its grasp is infinitely short of its reach because its reach apparently seems to be infinite. This is an album, again, infamously, that seems to have been based on a footnote from a book that John Anderson was reading in hotel rooms during the Close to the Edge tour. A Yogi para Hamsar I can't even, I think, remember the name of. It's like there's an elaborate footnote in the Ramayana by this yogi I was reading, and he was like, so I'm going to write this entire four song or album, double album, four song epic Tales from Topographic Oceans. Right from that moment, you know that you're in for a rough ride. And the primary criticism I will offer of this, just to start, is that there are some beautiful moments on this. And I think most fans, in their mind, reduce it to the two songs that began and ended. But even those beautiful songs are too long. These people needed an editor. And I think there are moments where you can actually hear them saying, we have to fill two more minutes of time. And that is the worst place to ever find yourself in as an artist, as a musician, because then you're making product to fill gaps in vinyl grooves. You're working to the format, rather work rather than working to the art. And Tales from Topographic Oceans fails to me because it is a prisoner of its format rather than the ideas that would have far better served it.
- [154:55]
Jeff Blair
So I'll say a few things because I think Brad likes it more than likely either of us. You're right. And what popped in my head not that long ago, we did the Kinks. And the same way that Ray was hemmed in by the themes he was developing on those albums and sort of discounting or disregarding some of the Davies songs because, well, it has to fit the narrative and perhaps missed out on some really good tracks that would have made those albums better. It's the same sort of thing with Tales from Topographic Oceans. They are. They, you know, they have to get to an album length track and that means you've got to find 20 to 22 minutes worth of music in each of these songs somehow. They are, you know, they are slaves to the format as opposed to the songs being first. And that's just clear in a number of. Number of places here. Oddly enough, there are some good ideas that I think aren't developed enough in various places. You think they take the good ideas and stretch them out. But there are some good ideas here that only last 45 seconds or 60 seconds in the midst of a really long song. I also would say that after listening to this, I don't think that the production is as sharp as it had been on previous albums. The, the, you know, the contributions of. Of each member, I don't hear them quite as vividly as I did on the previous couple. Couple of albums. And perhaps that's because this is such a creation of Anderson and Howe. Everyone else had to be brought in slowly to this concept. And Squire and White did eventually, but Wakeman didn't and he left eventually. And I think that's why his contributions are somewhat lessened throughout the album. There are a few places where he's Rick Wakeman. There's a solo in Revealing Signs of God, which is excellent right toward the end, but you don't get the same.
- [157:03]
Jim
Remember, this is the album where Rick Makman went down the hall to play on Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath instead of playing on the yes album because he was so bored with Tales from Topographic Oceans, he just wanted to rock out for a little bit.
- [157:15]
Jeff Blair
I would say though, when we talk about, you know, world's worst rock and roll albums, this is. This is largely bad in the confines. I don't say bad. It's just. It's just. It's not on the level of a truly horrible album. It's not. I think when people say this, they're thinking about, you know, it's become a symbol of the excess.
- [157:38]
Jim
It's aesthetic. Right. It's an aesthetic comment on self indulgence, not on the music itself.
- [157:44]
Jeff Blair
Right. Although I think that like the ancient and the drum solo on the album. Album, those are two parts where, if you're trying to remember reasons why you don't like Tales, it's probably those two moments. But the rest of it, you kind of meander through really good parts and parts that are longer than they should be and instrumental sections that go on too long and some lyrical sections that go on too long. But, you know, if you listen and look, you will find good things. I don't think the album itself is as good as what came before.
- [159:02]
Brad Birzer
Yeah, I. I'm not quite as negative as you guys. I'm not really positive either.
- [159:08]
Jim
I.
- [159:08]
Brad Birzer
It's one of those. Those albums. I'm very glad it exists and I think it's a brilliant failure. And I consciously, probably once a year go back to it and try to appreciate it. And it's one of those albums I've always wanted to like more than I actually like. And I think you're both right, it is. They should never have gone with the 20, 20 minute, 22 minute side on an album. There was one, there was a band that tried to do that with CD 78 minutes. The band.
- [159:42]
Jim
Oh, God, no, no. What a nightmare.
- [159:45]
Brad Birzer
It's actually. It's not bad. Transatlantic wrote a one. One song called the Whirlwind and of course.
- [159:52]
Jim
And it's 78 minutes long.
- [159:54]
Brad Birzer
Yeah. And of course it's basically 20 songs that have been stitched together. Right.
- [159:58]
Jim
So it makes kind of a thing.
- [160:00]
Brad Birzer
Yeah, right, right. And. But it actually. It works. But you got to wonder what was the motive behind that? You know, are you really just trying to. And. And that feels. I mean. Yes. It just feels like they're stretching it. And even their. Their producer, again, I don't know how to say his name. Eddie offered Oford. He in a 1995 interview said the album is horrific. And you know, if you're producer saying that about your album, that is not good. Right.
- [160:34]
Scott Bertram
Ra.
- [161:10]
Brad Birzer
He was bored with sounds. Like all of them were kind of bored with it. What I think is astounding is that they come back with Relay after this. And I think Relay is a blistering out. I think it's a wonderful album.
- [161:25]
Jim
Great way to open Part two, because we don't have to. We don't have to open on a down note.
- [161:29]
Brad Birzer
Right.
- [161:30]
Jim
That's why we decided to end on this.
- [161:31]
Brad Birzer
Think about something like Soundchaser on. On Relayer. It sounds very much like the Ancient, but it's better. And so I. I think that it was a good learning experience for the band. And I have to say of the four tracks, my favorite is the Ancient. But I think for exactly the reasons Scott. My. Maybe the opposite reason of Scott on this. I actually like the drums on It. I like what they're trying to do. And it sounds very. This is hilarious, right? Even in the notes on this, where John Anderson's explaining why they wrote this. He said, on the third movement, the ancient probes still further into the past beyond the point of remembering. Here, Steve's guitar is pivotal in sharpening reflection on the beauties and treasures of lost civilizations. Indian, Chinese, Central American, Atlantean.
- [163:31]
Jim
It's just.
- [163:32]
Brad Birzer
And I think that Anderson is clearly blurring history with myth here. And I think the album does the same thing. It's just blurring too many genres and it just doesn't quite work.
- [163:44]
Jim
But again, also, like, a billion Chinamen are out there asking, since when is our civilization lost, friend? It's like we are well aware of our history. Maybe you weren't, because that's. I always.
- [163:57]
Brad Birzer
That's a good point.
- [163:58]
Jim
Indian civilization isn't lost either, man. They're well aware of what they're up to. You just didn't know about it.
- [164:04]
Brad Birzer
Yeah, good point. Very good point. So, again, I. I'm glad it exists. But, you know, it's definitely. It's probably my. It's not my least favorite yes album. That would be. Open your eyes I think is the worst yes album, but this one obviously is pretty low in their repertoire.
- [164:22]
Jim
I mean, there are beautiful moments on it, though. Like, I still think of the revealing science of God. I love the opening. The album has such promise when it begins. Actually, believe it or not, the remaster even improved upon this. The. The rhino remaster adds, like, by like a minute or two of just sort of like water washing. Sound effects. Very action. Avatar, like, frankly, boy, James Cameron did totally rip Avatar off from Roger Dean album. He did. Like, I know that there was a lawsuit about this and Dean lost, but he was right. They totally stole the vibe from yes albums. It's so clear. And this one, most of all, Tales from topographic oceans. So it opens with that revealing science. Science of God. And again, you talk about John Anderson, sort of. He leads these sort of celestial masses. This is an incantatory chant. It literally, you know, dawn of lights. He gives you the rhythm and everyone joins in. And it actually feels like a religious service. But then it goes into that, I guess, almost the dance of the dawn. That's Steve. How that very beautiful bucolic melody where Anderson sings. You know, what happened to this song that we once knew so well, Since I would have waited all my life for this moment. Genuinely beautiful melodic idea. That is a great little song. But the problem is it's 20 minutes long.
- [166:09]
Scott Bertram
We want you so well.
- [166:41]
Jim
Similarly, at the end of the album Ritual, I think we should. I want to take a moment to point out Ritual new Somme du Soleil, which unfortunately, more pretentious nonsense. It's French for saying we are of the sun. Again, it's not the hippie dippy stuff will just repel a guy with the sensibilities that I was born with. But the song is just so beautiful. And this one, actually, I think is the one track on the album that earns 20 minutes of its length. Deck. It earns 28 minutes of its length. Because if you go to yes shows, which we'll talk about in our next episode, they add like that drum solo from the Ancient onto this and they play the whole thing for 28 minutes long. They have to split it over two sides of vinyl. And I'm here for that. Ritual was a beautiful song, well written and actually in that one case, well fleshed out a while.
- [167:31]
Scott Bertram
And then give you a call. Maybe I'll just say hello say maybe that soul as love is true Will help us through the night Till we're coming home again I die Seems like that seems like that as we try we come to you we receive all.
- [168:26]
Jim
It's just everything else that, you know, betrays the hand of, you know, I said you don't have an editor, you've already made your bones and you feel like you can do what you want to do, but you have unwittingly enslaved yourself to the format. And that's why you have, you know, I'd say, well, about, you know, 45 to 50 minutes of really great music on an album that unfortunately is like, what, 100 minutes long.
- [168:53]
Jeff Blair
I want to make a very quick point here. And it actually continues into part two, so it's. We can sort of conclude around this. But I think it's important to note or interesting to note that yes was really a good selling band. All of these records going back to the yes album, I think that reached 40 in the U.S. everything after the yes album is top 10. Tales from Topographic Oceans, top 10 album in the U.S. and as we start part two, those albums also are top 10 albums in the U.S. so this is not a. A King Crimson situation. As far as I remember, where those albums are not really selling in. In the U.S. necessarily. Americans loved yes and they bought all these albums, stadiums.
- [169:38]
Jim
I mean, like all the shows that we have of theirs are. They're playing at like Giant Stadium. They're playing like Giant East Row. Yeah, they had fans and I guess does that. Does that bring us to the end for this episode? I suppose it does.
- [169:53]
Jeff Blair
It does. We wrap up part one of our yes discussion, and we'll pick it up next time with Relayer in part two. And we'll discuss at the beginning of part two where we kind of will draw a line. We're not going to get through every album they've released, but a good number of them in the second part of their career.
- [170:13]
Jim
I just want everyone to know that the bulk of the show will be devoted to discussion of Anderson, Bruford, Wakeman, and Howe and Union, the two most important albums of their later era.
- [170:23]
Jeff Blair
This is the part of this show, though, where we tell you two albums you should own and the five songs you need to hear from this portion of yes's career. And we begin with our guest for this show, Brady, Brad Birzer, back for a third time on the program. Brad, your two albums people should own and five songs they need to hear.
- [170:42]
Jim
Yeah.
- [170:42]
Brad Birzer
So let me say thank you to you guys. I love doing this with both of you, with Jeff and Scott. It's just great. So thank you to you both. And I also. I don't want to diminish what I was saying about yes earlier. I really. My intellectual journey, wherever I'm at now, and we could judge that in a variety of different ways, but my intellectual journey was very much shaped by the lyrics of John Anderson. And so I know that my imagination, my love of fantasy, my love of science fiction, that a lot of that came from me trying to figure out John Anderson's lyrics. So as weird as they may be, I'm thankful for them. Very thankful. So just to sum up then, the two albums that I think are absolutely essential are Fragile and Close to the Edge. Just incredible. And the songs for me, in no particular order from yes, Close to the Edge, south side of the Sky, Roundabout, and you and I, and Starship Trooper.
- [171:44]
Jeff Blair
All right, my two albums are the yes album and Fragile. Those are two from the new listener of yes that I recommend, as you begin. And the five songs I would list. Yours is no Disgrace and Perpetual Change. From the yes album, I have Rapid Roundabout on my list, Close to the Edge, that entire first side of the Close to the Edge album, and the closing track to that album, too, Siberian Katru. Those are my five songs. Jeff, over to you.
- [172:19]
Jim
I have the weirdest list ever, and it was governed exclusively by my desire to achieve the widest spread possible. So my two albums are going to be Yes's debut album. That's right. Yes. From 1969. Get the version that has the bonus tracks. You'll get really cool alternates of every days off of the second record. Something's Coming. And also, really importantly, Dear Father, another song we didn't discuss then. The other one I'll mention is yes songs because it's basically the greatest hit set live and it's so wonderful. And I genuinely do think that these. These songs play equally as well live as they do in the studio. Now, with that said, my five songs, tracks that aren't covered by either of those two. So for the first song, I'll say no opportunity necessary. No experience needed. From Time and a word. Boy, it's just hilarious. The strings shouldn't work, but they do. The second will be from Fragile. It's the one song they didn't play for yes songs on Fragile. It's south side of the Sky. They never did it live. They, you know, they did it a couple times. I don't think it was ever taped. It's one of the greatest things they've ever done. And I think it's Wakeman's finest moment on the record. And as well, just on that piano bit. The third song I'll mention is America, because how could I not after having mentioned it on every other chance I've gotten on. On Political Beats? And yeah, it's also. It's kind of an album. It was given away to a compilation called the New Age of Atlantic back in 1972. It was never released as, you know, on an album or as a single. It was edited for a B side from Close to the Edge, which of course is present in its entirety on yes songs. Speaking of yes songs, I'm gonna cheat a little bit and just say, even though I'm recommending Yes songs to you, I will individually recommend Yours is no disgrace if you don't have the patience for the entire two cd, you know, triple album of them playing everything that you'd already heard prior to that. Please listen to them play that song live. It is one of the most exciting moments that you'll here in live rock from the 70s. And then finally, I'll end with ritual. New song Du Soleil. Yeah, actually, I'll pick a track from Tales. I don't think it's the worst album ever made or anything close. I think it's a noble failure. And this is the one that comes closest to succeeding. There's just some. So many beautiful and actually very valedictory moments. It. It very much feels like the sunset if. If you know, the revealing science of God was the dance of the dawn. This is the sunset for an album that doesn't hang together at all in its middle, but does know how to begin and end very well.
- [175:03]
Unknown
Going.
- [175:06]
Scott Bertram
Home.
- [175:28]
Unknown
Look with my love Sentences move dancing away with joy we receive our song Memories long hoping away the sound of silence.
- [175:45]
Scott Bertram
We love when we play.
- [175:58]
Jeff Blair
All right, there it is. The Political Beats. Look at yes Part one. Come back for yes Part two in a couple of weeks. We will be joined again by our guest, Brad Berser, the Russell Amos Kirk Chair in American Studies here at Hillsdale College, lyricist for the Prague rock band the Bardic Deaths. You can also find other books he's written like In Defense of Andrew Jackson Russell, American Conservative, and a biography of Rush drummer Neil Peart, Cultural Repercussions. Brad, thanks for joining us. Look forward to talking in Part two.
- [176:32]
Brad Birzer
It's been fantastic. Love talking to you guys.
- [176:34]
Jeff Blair
Thank you. Jeff. A few weeks here to perhaps bone up on yes, although as you said, you could have done this 25 years ago, so maybe you're fine together.
- [176:44]
Jim
My big thesis, arguing on behalf of open your eyes. I mean, we have work to do here.
- [176:49]
Jeff Blair
Find Jeff on xsoteric CD My name is Scott Bertram. I'm on X at Scott Bertram Reminder. Head over to patreon.com politicalbeats to support support the show. Help it stay ad free. Got our entry level, our mid level and our upper level support available to you there. Please join us at patreon.com politicalbeats subscribe to the feed for new episodes, Apple podcasts or elsewhere. Plus@nationalreview.com Find us on Facebook. We're on X Politicalbeats. Join the Conversation there. This has been a presentation of National Review Review. This is Political Beats.