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Episode 141: Mary Chastain / Stone Temple Pilots
02:48:06
Scot and Jeff discuss Stone Temple Pilots with Mary Chastain.
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- [00:07]
Scott Bertram
Hello again everybody and welcome into another edition of Political Beats, a presentation of National Review. You can find us on X at PoliticalBeats. We're also on Facebook and you can subscribe to our feed for new episodes through Apple Podcasts. Google Podcast doesn't exist anymore, but we're also on tunein and elsewhere. You can also find us at nationalreview.com, click on podcasts and you'll see all the fine NRO audio including this show right here. We also direct you to our Patreon account which is patreon.com politicalbeats support us help the show stay ad free as it has been entry level support. Also some voting privileges there mid level for early access to shows and you get them at a higher audio quality and that our upper level best friends get early access, higher audio quality monthly exclusive content content shows, remastered episodes, playlists and even more than that if you join us@patreon.com politicalbeats now the part of the program where we thank some of our supporters personally, individually. Former guest Scott Immergut. Thanks for being along for the ride. Mandy Thompson, David Wendell, Brian Myrick, Mark Propp, Darren Henney, Trung Doan, Gene Rooney, Adam Anderson, Bill Cunningham, Sugar Mouse and James Cantwell. Thank you for supporting us@patreon.com politicalbeats and making the show possible. My name is Scott Bertram. You can find me on xcott Bertram, my tag team partner standing by as always, Jeff Blair. Jeff, how are you?
- [01:50]
Jeff Blair
I'm doing great, Scott. First snows are falling over here in Chicago and I'm smelling like a rose that somebody gave me on my birthday deathbed.
- [01:59]
Scott Bertram
I'm just tired of people saying we're just second and third rate imitators of better podcasts. That's what drives me crazy.
- [02:06]
Jeff Blair
I think we have our own unique charms.
- [02:08]
Scott Bertram
Jeff is on X at Esoteric CD and our guest for today's program is a writer editor at Legal Insurrection, legalinsurrection.com A Sun Times contributor to the Hill, the Washington examiner, Reason and Fee and you can find her on Twitter on x as well. Chastain81 Mary Chastain is with us today. Mary, thanks so much for joining us.
- [02:33]
Mary Chastain
Thank you so much for having me.
- [02:35]
Scott Bertram
I'm honored and I meant to look this up but I failed to do so. So I apologize in advance. This is a show that was brokered by a listener because we put out a call on a recent show. We'd love to do Stone Temple Pilots and I can't find a guest and someone Said ask Mary. And I did. And she was more than willing to come on. We very much appreciate it. And before we get to our ban today, Mary, give people an idea about what you do over at Legal Insurrection and what they should know about your work.
- [03:02]
Mary Chastain
I write about politics and law. I cover all verticals to, you know, culture, Hollywood, anything. Basically anything.
- [03:18]
Scott Bertram
And as anyone who follows you on X knows, a big time music fan, which is why we are pleased to have Ameri with us today to talk, talk about Stone Temple Pilots. And we begin the episode as we do others, giving the floor back to Mary. Tell us how you got into Stone Temple Pilots, why people should check them out, and what they should like about Stone Temple Pilots. Why does the music mean so much?
- [03:45]
Mary Chastain
You know, I was thinking about it. I honestly cannot remember how I got into them. It had to have been, you know, just listening to the radio in Chicago, you know, Q101. Yeah, I can't remember. I honestly cannot remember, like, the exact moment. It had to have been during core, though.
- [04:08]
Jeff Blair
1992 or thereabouts. 92. 93. Yeah. I think it was that way for most of us.
- [04:15]
Mary Chastain
Yeah. And I loved them. I just absolutely fell in love, not just because of Scott Weiland's voice, but also because of the band itself. I love, you know, the bass guitar and the music just blew me away.
- [04:38]
Unknown
You told the L.
- [05:19]
Mary Chastain
I think Dean Daleo is an underrated guitarist. Robert's definitely an underrated bass player. The way that they use, you know, their pedals and amps, you know, allowing them to experiment in different sounds, they don't get enough respect to me, especially Robert, you know, being a bit. Being a bass person. I actually played bass guitar, you know, on the side. Never in a band or anything, but you could tell that Robert was definitely influenced by James Jamerson, who I think is probably the best bass player ever. And for those who don't know him, he's an uncredited bassist on most of Motown's biggest hits.
- [06:12]
Scott Bertram
Go. Go online, go to YouTube and look for the isolated bass track from Bernadette from the Four Tops.
- [06:18]
Jeff Blair
That's.
- [06:19]
Scott Bertram
That's James Jamerson. And that will blow your mind.
- [06:24]
Mary Chastain
Yep, he is. I mean, I. He influenced me a lot, too. I. I love listening to him, and I love that we have the technology now to go and listen to, like, isolated vocals, bass, drums, guitar, to really hear anybody's talent. Like, I love listening to Whitney Houston isolated, you know, vocals, and Lane Staley isolated vocals. I love that we have that. You know, you can hear his. You can hear the jazz and the blues and the hard rock in his playing. And then, of course, you know, the drummer, he does more than. Yeah, yeah, crutz. He does more than just keep a beat. Also. He, you know, he. He contributed a lot of writing to most. To a lot of STP songs. So they're just very talented. And of course, they're Scott Weiland.
- [07:26]
Scott Bertram
Jeff.
- [07:26]
Jeff Blair
Was he a handsome. Was he an elegant bachelor to you back in the day, Mary? Oh, my God, a handsome lad. Is that. Is that what you're telling us?
- [07:34]
Mary Chastain
Yes. One of the things that I talk about with my best friend Michelle, you can find her on Twitter at, you know, gultgirl. I. Whenever we talk about it, you know, we always say, eddie's hot. He was a great showman and he's hot. Great singer and he's hot.
- [07:54]
Jeff Blair
And he's hot. Yeah, right?
- [07:56]
Scott Bertram
Yes.
- [07:58]
Mary Chastain
And his dancing ability, I mean, he was just. Just not his looks, but the way he presented himself on stage was just. Could get any woman swooning.
- [08:46]
Unknown
Feeling like a hand of luster chain. So do you laugh or does it cry? Reply.
- [09:10]
Scott Bertram
I am incredibly pleased and really happy that Mary's with us today to talk Stone Temple Pilots. It's been a band I've wanted to cover for a long time, and I don't want to. Okay. This will be the only time ever that Stone Temple Pilots have been compared to hall and Oates. But way back when, I think that was our first episode on Political Beats, where Jeff and I went into a show saying, we've got to do something here because Holland Oates, Darrell hall and John Oates have the reputation of being sort of lightweight 80s pop masters, and the music was a little better than that. Deeper than that, deserve more respect than that. And we've done a few episodes like that over the years, and I'd say this is in that series that began with Daryl hall and John Oateson continues, which we find they continue quickly with.
- [09:55]
Jeff Blair
The Monkeys first, then onwards for exactly some of these, we have projects where, like, hey, listen, this band, you know, it was one popular thing to you, but there were a lot more than that. And this is, yes, a continuation of the series.
- [10:09]
Scott Bertram
And I think that for many, and not most, but for many people, when you think about Stone Temple Pilots, you think about maybe Scott Weiland and his drug use and arrests and unfortunate early death. You think about the core, that first album, and the comparisons to Pearl Jam and Eddie Vedder's vocals and Scott Weiland's vocals on that first album. And if you summarize Stone Temple Pilots in one sentence. I think for some, if not many, it comes down to, as I sort of obliquely referenced, second, third rate grunge band, Pearl Jam imitators, wannabes. They don't have credibility. They weren't real. They're posers. And as we'll talk about during the course of the show today, I think that is so, so far away from the truth of what this band was. The quality of the music they produced, the legacy they left, the influence they had on many other artists. There is a big story here about Stone Temple Pilots that we're going to tell today and I'm really excited to do so. Mary already told you the members of this band. It's a four piece band. Two brothers, Scott Weinland, Eric Kretz on drums. And I'm so glad she pointed out Robert DiLeo already because he's the bassist. And man, does he fire off some great bass lines over the course of the career. But he's also, I think if you added up all the songs, he's almost certainly the band's primary songwriter. Oh yeah, not the majority maybe, but close to that. And that's unusual, right? To have the bassist be the main songwriter in a band plays a key role. Dean is a very underrated guitarist and very underrated guy when it comes to melody and even riffs. Eric Kretz is better than, as Mary said, just a timekeeper. And Scott Wyndele to something in and of itself we can discuss. But visually too, it's a striking band, which I think is part of what makes it what it is. Scott Wineland early on, the fluorescent yellow hair or the red hair and the very loose, limber, like thin white Duke. David Bowie moves on stage. You had Robert who played his bass very. His bass would hang very low, which is very striking in videos and on television. Dienick also was this thin guy who was sort of very straight and upright when he played. And it was a visually striking band as well. I certainly knew Plush.
- [12:58]
Unknown
These, Elastica, would you even care? And I feel it and I feel it where you going for tomorrow? Where you go where the master found.
- [13:34]
Scott Bertram
And actually Plush was probably the first grunge song that actually grabbed my attention. I wasn't terribly into that first Pearl Jam or Nirvana.
- [13:44]
Jeff Blair
They didn't do it for you.
- [13:45]
Scott Bertram
I mean, like, didn't love it.
- [13:46]
Jeff Blair
Smells like Ted's spirit.
- [13:47]
Scott Bertram
I know I came to. I came to like it and I came to respect it and love it. But when I was 11 or 12, when those albums broke I wasn't, I wasn't all over it, but plush, plush grabbed me. And Purple, Purple is one of the first albums of my teenage years because this is the era where Jeff and I, I think I speak for both of us. We're very into classic rock and going back into the catalogs of bands. And so Purple was one of the albums that brought me back into the present day of rock music and I really enjoyed that. It wasn't until years later that I fully appreciated the rest of the band's work, including tiny music and other songs. But I've said for a while now and we get. Well, I think Stone Temple Pilots perhaps were the best singles band of that era. The songs they released that made it to radio stand up so well and all have very unique parts, very unique riffs and take a while to leave your head once they're in. They were great, great songs. It sounded great popping out of the speakers. This is going to be a great story and I can't wait to tell it. But Jeff's going to tell us first.
- [14:58]
Jeff Blair
Okay, so it's so funny, Scott, because your story of like encountering Stone Topple Pilots is very close to mine, but not quite the same as mine because I think, you know, when we started exploring classic rock came at different phases. Mine was very much like my high school years were, just. That was where I was lost. But when I was growing up, of course I got all the Nirvana. We had the complete discography of Nirvana in my house between me and my brother. Right. Pearl Jam, obviously we've told this story many times, Garden. All of the grunge stuff and yeah, those first two Stone Temple Pilots albums. Those first two albums. And then I think Purple comes out in 1994 and then that's when I go fall down the rabbit hole. And then I become almost like, like bizarrely hermetic and I'm not listening to anything on the radio for five, six years except Radiohead, basically. And it was lucky for me that Stone Temple Pilots hit before then because I was aware of the same reputational issues that you mentioned, mentioned when you. Yeah, they're knockoffs of Pearl Jam. They're kind of second rate, third rate grunge imitators and all that stuff. I heard people reading, you know, talking about it in the neighborhood because, you know, kids argued about music. And I also read it in like Rolling Stone and the like. I was never truly infected by it myself, however, because all those, you know, arguments happened after I'd already left the scene. So all I was left with were memories of those albums. And those albums have always aged well in my mind.
- [16:33]
Unknown
Believe it. She really got. I'll find a way to someday. I find a way to someday. Father's always SM and your mom's at church on a Tuesday and your brother's always drinking and dying. Father's always smoking and Join us at church on Tuesday and your brother's always drinking and I always smoking.
- [17:23]
Jeff Blair
I think core. I'm a little. We'll talk about when we get there. Cor is. Is a little bit slow. It's a little bit, you know, sludgy in its pace. But Purple, just like you. Purple was an album that I immediately recognized as I must have been a 13, 14 year old kid. I listened to each of these songs and they hadn't. I hadn't heard them on the radio yet because that was an album because we were so like high on like. We love Plush. Where are you going for tomorrow? We had to get the new Stone Temple Pilots album the day it came out. And my brother actually was like. He liked the one or two, like big hit singles. But I started listening to that entire thing and then I realized this is a great band.
- [18:27]
Unknown
And it tells you lie. They tell their words. It's all.
- [18:45]
Jeff Blair
And then I lost track of the entire music scene. And it was only back in so the late years of college where somebody mentioned, hey, you know, that tiny music album, you should check it out. I remember seeing it being advertised at Borders Books and not selling a lot of copies. You know, they had the big stand back when Borders Books was a thing. And they had CDs there as well. They had the big tiny music stand where you could get like the new album. And nobody took taken a single one of them. And I thought, well, this must. This must be a failed record. I came back to it in like 2002 or something like that. I was like, this is the opposite of a failed record. But I never really explored Stone Temple Pilots beyond that until we booked this show. I had my memories and what I have now is a deeper appreciation of how great and underrated a band this was. There are moments here in my notes where I'm like, I'm on the fifth Stone Temple Pilots album. Why are they still this good? This was a remarkably consistent band. And in fact, I would make an argument that their most famous album is probably one of the weakest albums they ever did. They never sought to like, break boundaries, you know, break the mold or do something weird and avant garde. But then again, you could say the same thing for Pearl Jam now, couldn't you? And what's the difference? Well, Pearl Jam never lost themselves to drug addiction. They were probably a little bit harder working as a group as well. And they're still around. But Stone Temple Pilots have left a legacy, especially every album they did with Weiland, I'd say, and we'll talk about Weiland in a bit here. Every one of those albums stands up and I'm almost surprised at how much better they are than the stuff of theirs that Scott mentions. You know, you can't turn on XRT in Chicago here without hearing all four of the big hit singles from that first album. They're so much better than that. They got better and better as they went along, unlike so many bands that, that, you know, come in with a bang and they just have like a long and boring tail. And Stone Temple Pilots actually broadened their spectrum musically and created a lot of really like left field offbeats, but still very poppy and listenable and radio ready music that up until this point I'd never heard. And I'm really glad we're doing this episode so I can tell you guys about it too.
- [21:03]
Unknown
Nothing matters again I alone But I'm just sitting on this M and the music is too loud it's just a game that we used to play didn't think we take it all the way.
- [21:59]
Scott Bertram
Let's give you a bit of background as to how the band came together. Where we go toward the first album and when we get there, I'll allow our guest Mary Chastain to take us into Core. The origin of Stone Temple Pilots and Playing Together actually dates back to the to the mid-80s. Scott Weiland and Robert DiLeo were the first guys to get together. Scott Weiland and the guys in his band ran into Robert playing at various gigs, thought he was a great player and eventually formed a band with him, Wylan deleo and two other guys called Swing. The drummer left and again the guys had seen Eric Kretz playing around California and convinced him to join joined that band. So now you got three fourths. The guitarist left that band called Swing and Robert said, hey, you know my brother Dean, he's actually a. He was a successful businessman at the time who had played music in the past and then had left and played guitar as a hobby. But was it was a business guy making money, making real money, said, you know, maybe we can convince him to play. And that's Dean. And eventually they convinced Dean to do that, join the band, play for Swing and then. And that Put the STP lineup together. Swing changed its name to Mighty Joe Young around 1990 or so and started working on songs and a demo tape. And some of those songs they worked on in 1990 would stick around.
- [23:28]
Jeff Blair
By the way, Scott, do you know what Mighty Joe Young is a reference to? Are you aware of what they were paying tribute to with the name?
- [23:36]
Scott Bertram
I should. It's in the back of my mind. I don't know.
- [23:39]
Jeff Blair
You tell me. It's one of the great early, like, giant gorilla films, sort of like a. Sort of a sister film to King K. Kong. Mighty Joe Young was another giant gorilla that, like, I think he runs loose in New York or some such. But, yeah, that's. That's what it's from.
- [23:53]
Scott Bertram
Some of those tracks from 1990 would go on to form the part of CORE in a couple of years. So Mighty Joe Young starts playing out in California. They play whiskey at Go Go. They play elsewhere, begin working on an album with Brendan O'Brien, who's a pretty good guy to start working on music with around the time O'Brien had tons of success with, with similar bands around that time. They get Ben's lawyer say, hey, there's this blues guitarist. And he. He's already got this name, Mighty Joe Young, so you can't use it. And they. I think Weiland specifically was a fan of the STP motor oil stickers that you'd see back in the day. And they're still around, but not. Not quite as old as they were.
- [24:34]
Jeff Blair
Still see them, actually.
- [24:35]
Scott Bertram
Yeah. And they threw around some ideas. I think Dean said, how about Stone Temple Pirates? And. No, no, no, no, no. But they. They. They landed on Stone Temple Pilots. Stp just essentially three random words inspired by the STP motor oil logo. And that essentially brings us up to 1992 as they work on that album with Brendan O'Brien. It's done midsummer. It's released September 1992. This is one year exactly after Nevermind. 13 months after 10, that Stone Temple Pilot's album, album core. The debut hits stores and the radio. And we'll turn things over to our guest Mary Chastain to begin our conversation on this very first Stone Temple Pilots album.
- [25:45]
Unknown
My philosophy. You want to know about Atrocity Atrocity I know you want what's on my mind I know you like what's on my mind I know that you want this time I know you know, you know, you know.
- [26:10]
Scott Bertram
Mary, what do you think about this? This one?
- [26:12]
Mary Chastain
I love that album. I love it and I hate. And I hated it back then. When I heard it, the comparison. Because one thing that you notice, and don't get me wrong, I like Pearl Jam, and for the lack of a better word, Eddie Vedder's voice is kind of. Of stagnant. You know, he sings the same way in almost every song. And I don't know. I don't know how to describe it. I'm not knocking him. I'm not. But Wyland has arrange where you can he. You know, if you listen, if you go from creep to sex type thing to wicked garden, his voice differs.
- [27:21]
Unknown
I want to run through your wicked garden That's a place to find you. Cause I'm alive, so alive now I know the doctors find you can you, can you see? Just like a child can you see just what I want? Can I bring you back to life? Are you still alive now?
- [28:13]
Mary Chastain
And if you play Eddie Vedder and STP for people who haven't heard him, you can tell that there's a difference. Like, I never confused them. Not at all. I've never confused them. Like, how can people say that? Even this.
- [28:29]
Jeff Blair
Oh, I can tell you. I'll let you finish. No, no, this is a really interesting point, by the way. So finish your thought now.
- [28:39]
Mary Chastain
Eddie. Just. Okay. He differs maybe a little bit. Like, if you look at, you know, you listen to Black and Oceans. Okay. Yeah, but it's still Eddie. But with the Stone Table Pilot songs, not even just Core, but all of them, especially as the albums progress, Scott had the ability to, you know. Oh, God, how do I say, like, use different voices, use different tones, different ranges. It kind of like Corey Taylor from Slipknot. How Corey Taylor can go from, you know, rapping to singing to metal singing flawlessly, you know, so this is.
- [29:22]
Jeff Blair
This. Yeah, you know what, Mary? I know exactly what you mean, and I think it's a great point. And this is probably as good a point as any to. Just to discuss Scott Weiland. Because here's the thing about Stone Temple Pilots, like every other kid who grew up listening to the music on the radio, I thought he was the band because he's the lead singer. I don't know anything about this group. Well, you don't know until you actually. What I didn't really, actually even properly appreciate until we booked the show is that it's really the Daleo Brothers who are doing most of the songwriting here, and Wylan is the lead vocalist. So I'll tell you, I've never had too much time for his lyrical concepts, but his voice is remarkable. And what you. The reason you said you didn't like this album much at first is because you probably didn't like the idea that he was doing. And I think he got. This is why the band really got, like, attacked. It was doing a lot of a vocal imitation of Eddie Vedder, and I remember everybody on the radio seemed to sound like that. Eddie Vedder tenor Chris Cornell also had it. You know, when he was in his low range, you couldn't remember the song Hunger Strike, you know, I'm going hungry. For the longest time, I never knew that there were two people singing on that song. It was Eddie Vedder and Chris Cornell. I just thought it was Eddie Vedder the whole time because I didn't know the difference between their voices. So that was like the. Back then. And what you point out about Weiland, which is what makes him interesting as a vocalist, is that Eddie Vedder, you're right, he sings that way because that's who he is. He's like a genuine hombre. He just, you know, that's him singing from his soul. And, you know, that's the appeal. Pearl Jam to folks. What actually, I like about him, too. It's so sincere. But Weiland was a chameleon. He could do the grunge voice, the classic grunge voice, and he does it on this first album to a table. But what you're going to find out is Stone Temple Pilot's albums, like, you know, evolve over time. He has so many different ranges, and, in fact, he leaves this voice behind by the time of Tiny Music, he doesn't sound like this at all. So Wyn had a really versatile, like, ability to, like, sing in different styles, and he grew as a singer. And this is a bit of an affectation, which is maybe why Gores never quite been my favorite album.
- [31:28]
Unknown
Down the street I Got a mother in my shoes Rubber band rubber Bang on a dang on a hand I want to use I too much.
- [32:05]
Scott Bertram
Isn't it really. Isn't it really about plush when we talk about the Vetter.
- [32:09]
Mary Chastain
Yeah.
- [32:10]
Scott Bertram
Wyland comparison, when you get down to it? Because even on core, he's approaching some.
- [32:14]
Jeff Blair
Well, six type things. Got that kind of like, I am, I am, I am. But, like, that's.
- [32:20]
Scott Bertram
But the. But the plush court. Right. You can. You can absolutely picture Vettie Vedder singing that song in a very similar way. And I don't mind, actually, Betty Eder is a guy.
- [32:33]
Jeff Blair
That was what you were about to say. That's the All Universe. Pearl Jamming vocals. Yes.
- [32:38]
Scott Bertram
But it's really about plush I think. And as Jeff noted, that affectation, whatever it might be, is thrown aside almost immediately. And we don't want to talk about the Purple yet. But there. And certainly the next album, Weiland does almost all the lyrics, but early on especially he didn't really know how to play. He would hum things to Robert who would then sort of translate them into the songs. Later on he'd write a bit more and contribute a bit more to some of the songs. But early on, as Jeff said, he's kind of an interpreter of the work of the brothers and then adding in his, his lyrics. And I think Weiland's lyrics are a bell curve. I think they're not great on core. They get better, they get really good and then they fall off again, I think toward the tail end of their career. But in the middle there, there's a lot to talk about. Early on here you've got stuff like Dead and Bloated or Wicked Garden, which is a very, very straight, you know, lost. And the COVID of the album is an Adam and Eve type thing. That's where Wicked Garden comes in. Or sex type thing, which Wylan can. Oh, it's misinterpreted as being a, you know, a pro rape song. Pro rape song, an anti rape song. And you shouldn't have worn that dress. And I want to give you something that you won't forget. So he's got to explain these like ham fisted ways he's writing on this very first album. But he'd eventually, pretty, pretty quick, quickly get, get pretty good at it. But you know, the, the music here. I. The songs that are well known are. Are well known for a reason. They're the better songs on the record. If this were the only thing that we had, the only document of Stone Temple Pilots, you would have them pegged essentially. Right. As kind of generically good grungy rock. There are a couple places where I think it does. Doesn't really. I don't like Sin is six plus minutes that I. It's too long. Naked Sunday to me sounds almost Red Hot Chili Peppers in it. You're very funky, which makes sense because Brendan O'Brien had just come from producing, mixing Blood Sugar Magic.
- [34:41]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [34:42]
Scott Bertram
But there are some album cuts like Piece of Pie. Piece of Pie, by the way, perhaps gave some influence to a guy named Ed Rowland in, In Georgia. Because about a year after this collective soul had their hit with Shine. And the chorus is sh. Very much emulates that Piece of Pie part where the music stops and Wylan goes, yeah, I Mean, that's. That's the core, no pun intended, of Shine.
- [35:06]
Jeff Blair
I never met. I've never made that connection until just now. Yeah, now I get it.
- [35:10]
Scott Bertram
Which would come out a year later.
- [35:28]
Unknown
Take the watcher I kill the preacher yeah, yeah, yeah Staring me down Wearing a crown of every I'm standing around.
- [35:59]
Scott Bertram
Dress like so I mean, again, the singles, the songs that made Radio and Plush. I talk about Plush very quickly because it is the song that drew me to the band and really into the genre. I was not into the grungy mood until I heard Plush and that really grabbed me. Plush is. Yes. I think this is where the Vetter replication accusations really comes down to one song. And the trick of Plush and I just know we talked about this in the Elton John episode. So again, maybe the first time STP and Elton John are referenced in the same episode of a show like this, but Elton John had that trick. I'm thinking of a tiny dancer. And there's other songs where you'd hold that chorus until the last minute. That delayed gratification of build and build and build. You think the chorus is coming? Nope, nope, nope. Not yet. Nope, nope, nope. So you don't get to the chorus of Plush until at least halfway through the song.
- [36:57]
Jeff Blair
I mean, that's in, right? Yeah.
- [36:59]
Scott Bertram
And then that huge. That last run through when everything sort of builds and explodes that you get that release because it's a five minute long. So you get that release at the end, that last run through the chorus and it's. I mean, heck, even if you didn't know the words, just wanted to grunt along. It was a sing along track too, right? You could, you could take those huge choruses, wait and then, and then have that release. And I think that's one of the reasons it was so successful. And literally every 13 year old kid.
- [37:29]
Jeff Blair
On my block could. Could sing the words. We all like, you know, sang Plush like.
- [37:34]
Mary Chastain
Yes.
- [37:34]
Jeff Blair
Just like this is pre karaoke, man. But it's just like this stuff you did hanging around on the. On the corner while you're waiting for the bus. That thing was a monster of radio. And I have wrestled with it for years because everything you say about it is correct. There's something actually fundamental. Just the chord changes on that are great. They're really great. The way you say that they delay the chorus is fine. But you know, that thing is slow bore to me these days. I literally have a vision of that song being arranged at like maybe a much more peppy up tempo speed, double time that sucker. And you Wouldn't mind it. Right? It doesn't have to be. It could be 3 minutes and 14 seconds instead of 5:14. The chords are there, the melody is great, the lyrics less said the better. But the thing is just so slow. And that, to me, is the. The biggest fingerprint that the grunge era has upon the band. The album and the song.
- [38:48]
Unknown
Begin to swear. Where's the smell alone where the dogs. You find her got time, time waiting for tomorrow she found it, you find it, you find it where don't you find her got time, time waiting for tomorrow to find it, to find it, to find it.
- [39:34]
Jeff Blair
If they come up with that one five years later, they wouldn't have taken it at that molasses pace.
- [39:41]
Mary Chastain
Right. And it. I noticed too, that I had read somewhere that the cord structure was from Robert and his love of ragtime music.
- [39:56]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, that's, you know, that's very much kind of a ragtimey, you know, progression.
- [40:04]
Mary Chastain
Yeah.
- [40:05]
Jeff Blair
And it only sounds like. I guess if you played it faster, it would sound a little bit too show busy. Right. So you have to. You have to slow it down to that.
- [40:15]
Scott Bertram
But.
- [40:15]
Jeff Blair
Okay, listen, one other thing I want what I really, you know, you guys, you know, there's more to discuss on this album, but the one I felt like I had to just sort of occupy is. Is. Is the hilarious fact that there is. There were in 1992, two pretty well known.
- [40:29]
Scott Bertram
I know where you're going.
- [40:30]
Jeff Blair
Two pretty well known songs released named Creep.
- [40:35]
Mary Chastain
Yes.
- [40:37]
Jeff Blair
Which one has survived and which one is sort of forgotten. They're both pretty good, I think. I think Radioheads, Creep is the better tune, obviously. But then again, they owe that one song. I love Creep. But you know what? Radiohead didn't even write Creep themselves all the way because they kind of stole it from the air that I breathed by the Hollies. Whereas this Creep, this is the one that by. By Robert Dell. This is actually, to me, one of the most interesting songs on the album. It's also one of the ones that you do still hear on the radio. It's, it's. It's the darker acoustic shuffle. It shows them in a different mode than like the big, bold, slow, grungy chords. And this is the one that I came back to and, and, you know, like listening for the show, and I hadn't heard it since I was, what, 14 years old, 13 years old or thereabouts. And I was like, oh, yeah, that was really great. Why don't I hear that anymore? And then I looked at the title And I was like, oh, so that's why I don't hear that anymore. Because it got overtaken by a much more famous song.
- [41:43]
Unknown
To heal I like to steal I'm half the man I used to be I feel I'm half the man I used to be Half the man I used to be.
- [42:27]
Mary Chastain
But it's another song. It's one of the songs on the album that he really doesn't sound. You know, you can't say he sounds like Eddie Vedder.
- [42:36]
Scott Bertram
Yep.
- [42:37]
Mary Chastain
Sound like Scott Weiland. And it was. Yeah, Plush was the big hit, but at a time, Creep was a big hit on the radio. And again, like, y'all, he's not Eddie Vedder. Like, listen to Creep. Listen to it. Just listen to it. And of course, people never listen to me, but, I mean, it shows. Knows that he has his own voice.
- [43:10]
Scott Bertram
Well, they must have understood that. People really enjoyed Creep, because the very next song that the band releases is, let's say, similar to the point that occasionally I actually have to concentrate pretty hard to remember which is which. Between Creep and Big Empty. And Big Empty previews the band's next album, Purple. Big Empty is Scott.
- [43:34]
Jeff Blair
I actually think of it this way, that it. Big Empty is literally a fusion of creep and plush. Like, the first part is creep. And then when it gets to the chorus, well, that's plush.
- [43:46]
Unknown
Driving faster in my car Falling farther from just what we are Smoke a cigarette and last them all these kinds conversations kill Falling faster in my car Time will take her home Her DY here has come to the SL Time to take her ride and leave today no come to say it Time, Time to take.
- [44:49]
Scott Bertram
And it was released before Purple. It was released as they played it at an MTV Unplugged show in 93, and then it also made it onto the Crow soundtrack, the soundtrack for the movie the Crowd Crow. And that album went to number one a few weeks before Stone Temple Pilot's follow up would be released, Purple in 1994. So the band already had a hit rock single before Purple ever was in people's grubby little hands on compact disc. And the first single from Purple, though, was Vaseline. And I have to tell you that Vaseline, we've talked. I remember. I remember where I was when I saw the Black Crows video for Remedy on mtv. I can pretty much remember where I was the first time I saw and especially heard Vaseline, because this is unlike Core in a very important way that Jeff pointed out, which is, Core is at times sludgy, Core is at times slow. And Vaseline is not. None of that. Vaseline.
- [45:59]
Jeff Blair
Oh, God, you're stealing all my notes here, Scott. Okay, go. Keep going. Okay, Keep going.
- [46:04]
Scott Bertram
Vaseline. No.
- [46:04]
Jeff Blair
Yes, go.
- [46:05]
Scott Bertram
Vaseline tells you that Stone Temple Pilots and the Daleo Brothers especially understand that what they're doing is a part of the pop firmament. Pop rock firmament, meaning you can play a song in 2 minutes and 15 seconds and get in and out, and that is acceptable. You don't have to stretch things out to 6, 7 minutes with 13 guitar solos and chord changes and keychain. You can play a song like Vaseline. You can have Dean playing this, like, edge, like, guitar line, that insistent, buzzy thing through the insistence.
- [46:42]
Jeff Blair
It's like the Fly to me. It reminds me of the Fly from Aktung, baby.
- [46:47]
Scott Bertram
And I think, again, for the first time, Wylan's lyrics are getting better. He's writing about himself. He's writing about a place he finds himself as Purple is released, which is another part of the STP story where Wylan begins this descent into drugs and addiction. And at least early on, he's okay at hiding it from people, which is some of what Vaseline and elsewhere on the album is about. He can tell these lies, he can pretend he's okay, but he always finds himself back in the same situation again. That's Vaseline. So Vaseline. All those reasons and one more. It's one of the only songs in the catalog that I know of that is a full band credit. Everyone gets a credit for writing Vaseline, which I think is an indication of how important they saw this song. They made it the first single, they all got writing credits. And I think it blows the door open in terms of what the band would be on Purple and could be down the road.
- [47:42]
Mary Chastain
Absolutely.
- [47:43]
Jeff Blair
Mary, Mary, you want to say something about this?
- [47:45]
Scott Bertram
Because I have a lot of thoughts myself.
- [47:48]
Mary Chastain
Okay. I have something to admit. I never liked Big md.
- [47:54]
Scott Bertram
Oh, it's okay.
- [47:56]
Mary Chastain
Never liked it. I always skip over it. I've never, ever liked that song. I.
- [48:04]
Jeff Blair
So your dizzy head's never been conscious laden I'm just.
- [48:24]
Unknown
Time to take her home where daisy hair has come to sleep Time to wait Too long To wait too long Way too long Conversations can.
- [49:12]
Mary Chastain
I never liked it. I don't know why and it was when I heard it, I'm like, oh, my gosh, am I going to like this next album? It actually took me a little bit to buy the album.
- [49:28]
Jeff Blair
Wow.
- [49:28]
Mary Chastain
Big Empty really turned me off.
- [49:32]
Jeff Blair
Okay, so you're. It's so funny that Scott says That one of his first memories of hearing Vaseline was watching the video. I have no actual video memories of Stone Temple Pilots as a kid whatsoever. It was all just this. None. I just, you know, because watching both MTV and VH1, I guess I just wasn't there to see them on MTV.
- [49:52]
Scott Bertram
You have more memories of Vanessa Williams on VH1, saving the bathroom last.
- [49:57]
Jeff Blair
Oh, my God. You're actually. How did you pull that one out of my memory bank, Scott? That wasn't. It's like, get out of there. That's my. I'm like, yeah, that. That's. That is. Or Janet Jackson. You know, like a lot of Janet Jackson videos. I. I have very George Michael, too, but I didn't. Never saw STP on video. But I bought the CD the day it came out. My brother and I. I remember we were hud. He had the CD player in his room. He was my older brother. So we just, like, sat there listening to it, and you hear that, like, da da da da da da da da da da da na and it was at that moment that I realized, okay, first of all, I was a young kid, so these are like, some of the first, like, musical judgment and critical memories that I have. I was like, okay, this group's changed. They're better, and they're better. And I stole that CD from my brother even. Never really got to listen to it because I was huddling with it in my room.
- [50:50]
Unknown
One time, a thing occurred to me. What's really. What's for sale we were kissing Tried to take it home two times Aid has rendered me unstrung and without hell Think I'd be safer all alone Flies in the Vaseline we are Sometimes it blows my mind Keep getting stuck here all the time.
- [51:49]
Jeff Blair
And you talk about how Vaseline is a song. It's. It's less than three minutes. Okay. One of the things that you'll find out about Stone Temple Pilots, one of their virtues. And Scott, you know this because I've talked about it. I mean, for years now. Their albums are great because they're brief, 43 minutes. The longest album in their career, I think, is Core. And that was like 53 minutes. A little bit longer and a little bit sludgier. As I said, you speed up the tempos on all those songs and you're back to a normal Stone Temple Pilots album from here on out. But here they have developed so much variety and the compactness. I mean, honestly, the worst. The worst song on this record is the first song, in my opinion, Meat Plow. It's a bait and switch.
- [52:31]
Scott Bertram
It's a bait and switch, Jeff, they did it to you.
- [52:34]
Jeff Blair
Tell me about it.
- [52:35]
Scott Bertram
Well, I did.
- [52:36]
Mary Chastain
I don't like it either.
- [52:37]
Scott Bertram
It is the continuation of core. It's a fine, I like it fine. I like it fine. But it's the continuation of core. It is a core song with nicer production, maybe a few new ideas, but it's a bait and switch. They say, oh, here's the same thing we did last album. And then the rest of the album exists to tear that down.
- [52:55]
Unknown
Five Place for a day full of breakdown Takes more than a meltdown to show us how Throw a tack on the road Stop the Meatlow.
- [53:11]
Jeff Blair
Got a.
- [53:12]
Unknown
Bullet but it ain't tonight they got these pictures of everything to break us down.
- [53:36]
Jeff Blair
The rest of that album, Purple, which comes out in, I guess, was it 94?
- [53:42]
Scott Bertram
Yep. Yeah.
- [53:42]
Jeff Blair
This is the album that I, I later understood that some people thought was uncool because Stone Temple Pilots were supposed to be uncool. But I was so, like, I didn't care about any of that anymore. So I was unafraid to say no, you know, to hell with you. That was actually a great record. And I went back to this album for this show. And this is just one of the things I, One of the reasons I love doing this show is that I've reconnected with how almost every single song, song on this record is an A track, except for that first one, this I, we've had. I was talking with Mary and Scott, like, before the show about, like, well, what, what, what my top two are going to be. What's the best one? Well, you know, it's down to this one, maybe the next one. But I think I, I, I've reconnected with Purple. This is just such an impressive second album. This is the album that broke the mold for Stone Temple Pilots. That set, you know, basically that declared the band that they were going to be. And they really actually did a great job of keeping up to the standard for several years afterwards. But first, this is the one where, like, I just, I couldn't accept it. Like, oh, yeah, they're Pearl Jam ripoffs. It's all just grunge stuff. There was nothing on here that felt cheap to me. Not a single song.
- [55:06]
Unknown
Moderation.
- [55:43]
Scott Bertram
Something I distinctly remember about Purple is there's no track listing on the back of the CD.
- [55:50]
Jeff Blair
Yes, it says it did 12 gracious melodies.
- [55:53]
Scott Bertram
Melodies, which I think I is this.
- [55:57]
Jeff Blair
Hidden track at the end.
- [55:58]
Mary Chastain
Also note the the title of the album is in The Chinese symbol, right?
- [56:04]
Jeff Blair
Oh, yes. This is. Of course, they were accused of trend hopping too, because, remember, I think Pearl Jam's Versus didn't have its, like, title on the album as well. And it just had, like, think five to one or Five Against One or something like that, you know, as the sort of, like, informal, you know, title. And so, like, oh, yeah, there goes Stone Temple Pilots just trying to, like, you know, imitate Pearl Jam. But of course, this is nothing like Earl Jam, and this is nothing like their prior reputation. This is a truly great 90s album that I think is criminally underappreciated.
- [56:37]
Scott Bertram
I want to. I want to talk about two tracks and then. And then see what Mary has to say. There are two songs on here that really blow me away in terms of their uniqueness and arrangements. And one of them is near the beginning. The beginning. It's Lounge Fly, the third song on this record, which is a. Which is a Robert song. And again, you start out with the bait and switch. At Meat Plow, you have Vaseline, which is this idea that we don't have to be Sludge. And then you have Lounge Fly, which is. Oh, we can actually be really different. And I love it. I love that dark, foreboding, mysterious feel of Lounge Fly. That backwards tape that begins into Kret's just hitting the snare drum so hard and busting into that guitar line that Dean plays vocally where Mary was talking last. Vocally. Here, Wylan breaks out. He's dipping in and out of different personalities. He's something in the verse, he's something different on the chorus. He's letting you know he's far more talented vocally than perhaps he was able to even show you. Encore. And then that middle eight, that acoustic section, that bridge where it's just this very sweet acoustic break. The strumming of the guitar, when that gets that door gets kicked out again by Dean solo. It rips off this solo. It's just fantastic. And then Paul Leary of the Butthole Surfers, first Butthole Surfer, referenced on this show, does the last solo on Loungefly. But that is a super, super impressive song.
- [58:12]
Unknown
She said she be my wall she said you feel my. And I can't live this way, Please, you feel my soul she.
- [59:16]
Scott Bertram
And the other one I wanted to mention is on the. I think it's in the back half. So Still Remains is. Damn it, Scott.
- [59:26]
Jeff Blair
We think the exact same way about this record. It's funny. You're taking all my stuff.
- [59:30]
Scott Bertram
So on on Interstate Love Song, which comes just before Still Remains. You can kind of hear some of Dean's influences come out. And I think on Still Remains, it's incredibly obvious how influenced by Jimmy Page he is. Still Remains is an extremely Zeppelin progression. Physical Graffiti, later. Zeppelin.
- [59:54]
Jeff Blair
I was gonna say 10 years gone is what I think of in some ways.
- [59:56]
Scott Bertram
Absolutely. Especially Physical Graffiti era Jimmy Page. Dean sounds just like Paige. It's an extremely Zep progression. And again, it's another way that you can identify the differences between Pearl Jam and stp. I mean, Pearl Jam were influenced by a lot of those 60s 70s classic rock bands, clearly, but more so the who, certainly. And I don't think I'd say almost at all by Zeppelin. I don't hear a lot of Zeppelin in Pearl Jam at all. But certainly you do hear it here on Purple and on Still Remains. Specifically, it is one of the best songs on Purple, an album full of nearly perfect songs. As Jeff has already told us.
- [61:21]
Jeff Blair
You.
- [61:22]
Unknown
Should die before me and asking you to bring.
- [61:38]
Scott Bertram
Mary. What are we forgetting on Purple?
- [61:42]
Mary Chastain
Some. I. When I was, you know, I was looking everything up again, and I found someone saying that Interstate Love Song Still Remains and Pretty Penny sound like one big love ballad. And it kind of makes sense because Interstate Love Song and Still Remains were written about his then girlfriend, future wife. And then Pretty Penny is a song he wrote to prove to himself that he wasn't a drug addict. And I mean, if you. And so last night I listened to the three continuously, and I'm like, they do fit together together. And I'm like, I can see how or why they pro. They might have put those three right there with each other. Also, Pretty Penny kind of sticks out, too. It's softer. It's. It almost doesn't belong in the. On the album. But if you notice, they put it smack dab in the middle almost. It's like a break, like, okay, here, step back. And then here we go again.
- [62:50]
Unknown
Gone when you wake in the morning Gone when you find that there's no one sleeping Gone Pretty Penny was her name she was loved and we all will miss her how far will you go? I say just to bathe a mouse Shorter lived and longer gone can you figure out Gone when you wake in the morning Gone when you find that there's no one sleeping Gone Pretty Penny was her name she was loved and we all will miss her.
- [63:46]
Scott Bertram
Well, let me just bounce off that very quickly. They're great at sequencing. It's a great. Yes, it's a great band in terms of sequencing, knowing where to put those little breathers the palate cleansers. Pretty Penny is one of those. If it were an album, Pretty.
- [64:01]
Jeff Blair
I think it was. I don't know if it was Wyland or Duleo who said this, but I think it was, like, back in, you know, in their heyday, they said, listen, we're trying to assemble albums the way you assemble Led Zeppelin albums. Which is why the Led Zeppelin thing is such an obvious, you know, key influence. It's like you notice. Yeah, I think it was the Leo. He said, like, you notice when you. When you want to listen to Zap, you don't just listen to one song, you just put it on the album. Well, we're trying to do that in the way that we arrange the songs on these records, and it shows. And Pretty Penny, just the placement of it, that's one of the most beautiful. That might make my top five. Because, you know, Mary, you discussed it. But for. For me, that was the moment, even as a kid, when I remember listening to the album, going through, like, some. The first two songs I'd heard were the Radiohead. So I was just going to get through the whole thing. I remember Big Empty was near the end. I was like, okay, well, I'll just listen to the whole thing till I get to that. And then in the middle of it, there's this song gone. When you wake in the morning Gone. It's just very kind of mystical and kind of like a very sad stolen moment. You can feel the wind blowing. It's snowing. It's very scenic and very intimate. It's an intimate moment on. On, you know, this grunge band that, you know, was singing Time to Take Her Home and all that stuff. No, that was the moment where I was just like, well, this is not the band that was sold to me. And I really knew that they were actually something more than that.
- [65:22]
Mary Chastain
Like, oh, they can do this. Yeah, more than one. Another thing. I emailed this to you guys last night. Army Ants. I turned it on and I'm like. Because I. Okay, so I listen to Sirius XM Turbo, like, all day long. And that. That station plays the new metal hard rock from the late 90s to the 2000s. And I'm listening to it and I said, wait a minute. Turbo doesn't play Stone Temple Pop Pilots. I've heard this before. It is the Rage against the Machines. Oh, God, now I can't remember the title. I don't like Rage against the Machine, the Broken man song.
- [66:16]
Scott Bertram
Like, oh, my gosh.
- [66:18]
Mary Chastain
What.
- [66:19]
Jeff Blair
I mean, I'm gonna try to look at. I remember seeing you mention it in your Moats.
- [66:24]
Mary Chastain
Oh, my gosh.
- [66:26]
Jeff Blair
Oh, it's. It's born of a broken man.
- [66:29]
Mary Chastain
Born of a broken man. Yes. Thank you. So I go and I find it.
- [66:34]
Jeff Blair
And also the Battle for Los Angeles.
- [66:38]
Mary Chastain
Yes. And so I listen to the beginning of Army Ants, and I listen to the beginning of Broken man, and I'm like, I can't defer. I can. I can barely differentiate the two. And then I go back to Army Ants. Okay. It lasts 28 seconds before it starts. You know, the. It changes, right? So I go. And then I go back to broken man. 28 seconds. And then it goes again. I'm like, did they rip off Army Ants?
- [67:08]
Jeff Blair
Probably. Paid tribute to. Paid tribute to. Remember what Oscar Wilde said, said, talent, talent borrows, but genius steals. That's true.
- [67:20]
Mary Chastain
It just. I was so, so confused because, yes, SiriusXM Turbo does not play Stone Temple Pilots. That goes on Lithium. I really was confused. I could not believe it because, I mean, I've seen. I've heard, you know, similar songs before, but, I mean, it's almost kind of ticked me off because, again, I don't.
- [68:29]
Scott Bertram
Like Rage against the Machine, but they identified something. We can't leave Purple guys without saying a bit more about Interstate Love Song, which of all the bands and all the groups and all the artists and all the albums and all the songs, might be the lingering legacy of the grunge era. Interstate Love Song has the longest tale. It lingers forever. The song is forever. 3 minutes, 14 seconds. Like perfect pop song length. Again, I mentioned. He sure sounds like Jimmy Page in places on Interstate Love Song, too. Dean does. And there are so many neat things about this song. It's both a little country and it's a little grunge. It's both a little sincere. Sincere, and it's a little not sincere. And you can't. You can't knock the melody. These are 12, 12 gracious melodies. And nowhere as apparent as on that chorus. That leaving on a southern train that is 110 only yesterday bulletproof bulletproof.
- [69:46]
Unknown
Promises what I seem to be Holy wash Time go by Things I said to you.
- [70:13]
Jeff Blair
The joy. The joy of that song for me, Scott, is I. I remember I got the cd. It had not become a single. It was not played on the radio. That, to me, was like the truly fresh introduction that I discovered myself. It got to that track on the album and I'm like, what is this again? They've migrated so far away from plush and time to take her home and all that now we're. Now we're in country.
- [70:39]
Scott Bertram
We're.
- [70:40]
Jeff Blair
We're in the. We're in. We're in the. The American Southwest, practically, is what it feels like, you know, with that.
- [70:44]
Mary Chastain
It's hard not sing it with. Without a Southern twang to it.
- [70:48]
Jeff Blair
It's a cowboy hat on. Scott Wy is wearing a cowboy hat on that song. I mean, I don't know how that's possible, but that's what makes that one so great.
- [70:56]
Mary Chastain
This is the song that made me go out and buy it. And then I listen to it. I'm like, oh, my gosh, what was I thinking? Yeah, why? I mean, it came out like three, two or three months after Purple was released, but I was really just mad at myself. I'm like, why did I wait this long?
- [71:13]
Jeff Blair
And the thing is, I ask myself now, why did I wait this long to hear the next record that they put out? Because this is really the point at which my journey with Stone Temple Pilots as a kid ended. And I discovered the Beatles for Heaven Forgive Me. I discovered classic rock. And that's when I dived down my own wormhole for the next five years. So it took me a long time to hear the follow up album to Purple. I just assumed that Stone Temple Pilots ended around then because I thought grunge at that point basically ended around 94. In a lot of ways it did as a movement. Right. And I think one of the things that we've done in political beats is sort of go and point out like, hey, Pearl Chain was actually even better after that era. You know, Stone Temple Pilots, as you were going to find out. I don't know if you say they were better than Purple, but they were no worse. They were different and they maintained a quality that I was completely, completely unaware of at the time. I only had to find out about it later. But I know there is a man on this podcast who's loved this album for a long time and maybe if it has been waiting for to discuss it for what, seven years now. Scott, do you want to introduce us to Tiny Music? Songs from the Vatican Gift Shop.
- [72:30]
Unknown
Satan My big purple china glow his family trees are moaning no longer grows in summer homes are closer Lets it go Picks a fruit but keeps it whole can keep the submarine in Keep the light Grab the f. Drown it out.
- [73:26]
Scott Bertram
Well, there's a little bit of pre stuff I think we've got to talk about.
- [73:30]
Jeff Blair
Oh, yeah, we'll see.
- [73:31]
Scott Bertram
Tiny.
- [73:31]
Jeff Blair
This. This is. Yeah, this is. This is. This is the sort of stuff I Don't know about, because this is where I fall off the map.
- [73:36]
Scott Bertram
Purple's a big hit. Purple didn't sell in quite the numbers. Core did. But Core was a smash. Purple did very well. Purple spun off hits in Vaseline and Interstate Love Song and others. And the band was. With. Was hot. They go back to start recording again in early 1995. Doesn't quite work. They got two weeks of material. They just scrap it, essentially. And after that, Wylan gets arrested for cocaine and heroin possession, and eventually he's placed on one year probation. But this begins to sort of erode the bonds of the band. And Weiland is like, I'm gonna try to do something myself. And he starts a band, but it's really just, you know, it's just Weiland. He starts to write some, so solo stuff, and the rest of the guys are, well, okay, we'll do something else. And they form this band called Talk show, which does eventually put out an album after Tiny Music is released. To me, we're not going to deal with a lot of these offshoots during the show, but to me, Talk show just sounds like some songs that weren't quite good enough for Tiny Music, with a singer who's not as good as Scott Weiland and doesn't really have a great reason to exist. So eventually they get back together and they start to write these songs for Tiny Music. And it's a different sound for the band, which hit people very strangely when it was released. There's a very famous, infamous Pitchfork review of Tiny Music, which is just atrocious. Rein Schreiber says Weiland should kill himself and tie one off and end his life and do it for me. And this album sucks. And he's just ripping off people left and right, and he's ripping off the Stones, and nothing's original. And it's just like. It's. It's terrible to read. And I remember seeing one of the.
- [75:34]
Jeff Blair
Most famously worst misreads of an album that you'll ever encounter, and so bad that they've deleted it from the archives. You can only find it now on the Internet Archive, so.
- [75:45]
Mary Chastain
And they later apologized for it.
- [75:47]
Scott Bertram
Yeah. When Tiny Music was re. Released with. With a bunch of remasters and bonus features, Tiny Music is the album that convinced me I was 100% wrong about STP. Whatever. Whatever. I mean, I liked Purple, but it's still just this rock band. Right? Tiny Music showed me how wide their view was of the music scene and the very different things that they could do on an Album this has certainly still has some remnants of grunge, but 60s rock, glam, t. Rex, definite David Bowie influence, psychedelic rock. There are things on here. There's.
- [76:33]
Jeff Blair
There are Beach Boys references on this album. They're going everywhere. And by the way, they open just like the last album, they open with the grungy stuff and then they basically leave it behind forever.
- [77:13]
Unknown
I'm looking for a new meditation still looking, Looking for a new way to fly don't want any blast of foundation not looking for a new way to die I make excuse for.
- [77:33]
Scott Bertram
Someone and there's trumpet. There's a beautiful trumpet part. I'll talk. Pearl Jam ain't putting trumpets on their albums. As far as I can remember, that that's not happening. But STP was not afraid to do that, I think because in a way. I think because in a way they realized that what they were doing was not reinventing the wheel. And if Pearl Jam had some self. A sense of self importance, whether that be Vetter or whoever else, STP didn't have that at all. I think they were less concerned about reaction. Certainly they were. They didn't like being crapped upon that they were second, third rate, you know, grunge act. But they also in a way didn't care. And so, okay, let's put a trumpet on this. Let's reference station to station and sort of nick Jumping Jack Flash because it's a great song and why not? They did that stuff and they were not afraid to do it on an album like Tiny Music. So this I find myself returning to often like this album from front to back. It's a great accomplishment of sequencing. I love. They start with that kind of pre album warm up half song called Press Play. There's these little interstitial things from place to place. They know how things flow they know how to make an album. They know how to keep you listening. I can talk for a while I have three plus pages of notes I won't be able to. To say them all, but I do want to let you guys speak before I do on what I think is the best Stone Temple Pilots album. Tiny Music.
- [79:30]
Unknown
Crawling. How come my keeps crawling, crawling.
- [79:41]
Scott Bertram
So.
- [79:41]
Unknown
The answer gets harder and harder and the truth's getting farther and farther and the battle keeps churning, churning, keep.
- [80:07]
Mary Chastain
I agree.
- [80:09]
Jeff Blair
You want to. You want to stop there? You want to continue? Because I have. I have about two pages of notes and. And I'll just listen. I'll just start by saying this, that this is the record that I. I first heard it. I think back in 2002. And I was. I remember being impressed with it. I was like, wow, they really. They've really. Of course, this is, of course, you know, several years after it had come out. I was like, but they've really evolved, and this is really good. And then I set it aside. You know, it's just like, there's so much music. I think at that point, 2002, I was probably just listening to nothing but Grateful Dead concerts or something dumb like that. So I had other things to do. But coming back to it, this is just a magnificent discovery, rediscovery for me, kind of. I've described situations like this in the past, you know, on the show where, like, for example, I bought murmur by R.E.M. like, you know, I bought it when I was a kid, and I was like, well, you supposed to own this album. So I listened to it once. I was like, eh, whatever, Set it aside. Came back to it later, realized this is one of the greatest debut albums ever. And I felt like a fool for having let it sit there in my collection for so long and not have given it the attention it deserves. I feel the same way about Tiny Music. There's a section on this album right in the middle, and those are all, like, Robert DeLeo songs that goes from Big Bang Baby to Lady Picture Showed. And so I know that I'm. I'm stunned that I did not appreciate fully, you know, as a kid. Maybe I was not. I didn't have the background. I didn't have, like, the musical education. I was not in the frame of mind to sit and listen and appreciate what was going on in all of those songs. But the middle of this album is, like, the most impressive run of music that Stone Temple Pilus ever released with. Ironically, I'd say the exception of the single Tripping on a Hole in a Paper Heart. It's okay. It's written by the drummer.
- [82:00]
Scott Bertram
Okay, but continue.
- [82:02]
Jeff Blair
It's a good song. But you know what the funny thing about it is, is that for me, the reason maybe I discount is it's one that sounds most like their earlier stuff. And then everything surrounding it is such an enormous step forward. Art School Girl is just Beatlesque pop adhesive. I know, Scott, you and I are going to have something to talk about with that one, but this album is. It's kind of like the title, in its own way, is wonderful when you say it's like music from a gift shop. You have all these little baubles, all these little, like, little tchotchkes, little, like gems. And all these songs are arranged. They're all individually conceived, and yet they work together to create, like, a little miniature of a record that's kind of been forgotten. I think now people are retrospectively coming back to appreciate it, but I was one of the people that forgot it and the time. And I'm really, really glad to come back.
- [83:10]
Unknown
I got a girlfriend she goes to art school I got an art school girl, yeah I got a girlfriend she got a girlfriend we got a girlfriend man, she gotta go she left her home from sweet Alabama Rose Alabama for the city New York City, yeah she left her home from sweet Alabama Rose Alabama for the city New York City Powerful times I told you Powerful times I told you powerful times.
- [83:58]
Jeff Blair
Mary.
- [84:02]
Mary Chastain
Revit. It's my favorite Stone Temple Pilots album.
- [84:06]
Jeff Blair
Tell me more.
- [84:08]
Mary Chastain
It really is. Is. And I remember when Big Bang Baby came out.
- [84:16]
Unknown
God.
- [84:16]
Mary Chastain
I was a freshman in high school, and I heard it, and I'm like, is that Scott Weiland? Because, again, I mean, you know, me being a bass player, but also the bass in the song, the bass and the voice is. Grabbed me. And again, it shows his range with his voice. It's poppy, but it's rock. It's them. And I love that song. It's so hard not to sing along to it or, you know, when you're in the car and it comes on, you know, it's hard not to, you know, kind of dance to it. I love that song. And it brought me right. Right back in. I thought it was a great. Was that. It was the first single, right?
- [85:08]
Scott Bertram
Yes. Yes. Yeah.
- [85:11]
Mary Chastain
I wish that they had released Vaseline as the first single for Purple, because, again, you know, Big Empty really turned me off. This was a great first single. Shows. Hey, we're back. You know, we're not like you guys said, you know, we're not the grunge band. And, you know, this. You know, we have the ability to. I don't want to say change, but, look, we can play anything. I thought it was a great first single, so I loved it.
- [86:26]
Scott Bertram
And I'll let you continue in a moment, but this is. This is glammy. There's a little Gary Glitter stomp to this. This is where the Bowie reference is most obvious. Station the station send me up and out this is where they nick the jumping Jack Flash. It's a gas, gas, gas Big bang, baby. It's. It's a crash, crash, crash. But.
- [86:47]
Mary Chastain
And the video.
- [86:48]
Scott Bertram
Yeah. Which is on videotape film or vice versa. It looks like Freeze frame from Jay Giles Band from the early 80s. But that last 20 seconds when Kretz rolls them in and Wylan takes over, that last 20 seconds where his vocals are so hot, they're pushed into the red. They're distorted just slightly. There's a hole in your head. There's a hole in your head. And they bring everything to a crash at the end of that song and it just stops abruptly. Should we all just hum along? It's again, I bet that's 3 minutes and 17 seconds. Something along those lines. They just know where to place things in terms of momentum and flow to really attract the listener.
- [87:33]
Mary Chastain
Absolutely.
- [87:34]
Scott Bertram
What else do you love, Mary?
- [87:36]
Mary Chastain
Lady Picture show is incredibly underrated.
- [87:42]
Jeff Blair
Dark lyric, though. Apparently this is one of these things where you're like, ah, it's a nice little melody. It's very besque, isn't it? And then. And then it's like a nice, very snappy little pleasant pop tune until you explore what the lyrics are apparently about.
- [88:00]
Mary Chastain
Yeah, yeah.
- [88:02]
Jeff Blair
A brutal gang rape, folks. That's what. That's what it's about.
- [88:05]
Scott Bertram
I. I think that's reflective.
- [88:06]
Jeff Blair
It's. It's a cuddly toy for the modern era, if you remember. Monkeys fan, right?
- [88:11]
Scott Bertram
Oh, yeah, Abs. But I. I do think that that dichotomy is explored in the music, though. So that verse is very pretty, Lady Picture Show. But think about Dean's really gorgeous solo when. When that solo ends slams into that, like, very dirty riff. And even in the chorus, you have these sort of like mechanical whomp, whomp, whomp, whoomp. And these pops that explode. And so, yeah, the lyric is darker than perhaps some of those beadly moments would indicate. But I do think they sort of write in that way, too. That beauty is undercut by some of the more abrasive elements. But I think that's what makes the song really special.
- [89:05]
Unknown
So she hides behind the bedroom wall she hides because she don't know nothing don't know nothing anymore she keeps a finding face Rocking bright It's just outside the door she doesn't know her name she doesn't know her baby she doesn't know her name she doesn't know her.
- [89:53]
Mary Chastain
I also don't like the Beetle. Like, comparing it to the Beetle, I think of it.
- [89:59]
Jeff Blair
Anybody should be honored to be compared to the Beatles.
- [90:02]
Mary Chastain
Can I admit something else?
- [90:04]
Jeff Blair
You don't like the Beatles? Are you about to do this to us?
- [90:07]
Mary Chastain
I hate the Beatles.
- [90:08]
Jeff Blair
Oh, my Lord. Well, you know what? We'll forgive you for the moment.
- [90:12]
Mary Chastain
I'm also not a Zeppelin fan.
- [90:15]
Jeff Blair
What do you Think about the Beach Boys, Mary. Because here's the thing. This is the part where I start, well, okay, because this is the funniest thing. This is the least expected thing of all and something I could have only appreciated. Now, later, this is the moment where Daleo starts writing songs that clearly seem to be influenced by late 60s era Beach Boys albums like the ones that nobody bought, where Brian Wilson is living alone as a shut in writing waltz tunes. So listen to the lilting melody of Van so I know. I mean, that is such a beautiful song. And that's another one that I think got hauled in for criticism by Ryan Schreiber and that awful deleted Pitchfork review. And I'm like, you idiot, that's one of the best songs on the album.
- [90:58]
Mary Chastain
Right?
- [90:59]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, it's just like, it's, it's like a nice little gentle, like, I think it's, it's the gentle acousticness of it. The fact like, oh well, Stone Temple Pilots aren't supposed to be doing some sort of mild and sort of, you know, easy, you know, pop ballad. But dude, there's nothing easy about writing that song. I mean, the melody is brilliant, the chord changes again remind me of like, you know, like, you know, like decline area, but believe me, decline era. Brian Wilson is great still. And again, I think they also did a cover of the Beach Boys in one of their outtakes which is she Knows Me so well, which is one of my favorite Beach Boys songs from the Beach Boys today. And that is the reason why I felt like, wow, maybe I'm right about making that association. Because if they're covering Beach Boys songs, they probably listen in a Beach Boys albums.
- [91:51]
Unknown
Will ever be this way. Never ever be this way.
- [92:46]
Jeff Blair
That's just one of those little elements that you never expect to find its way into a Stone Temple pilot song. But friends, it's not only there, it's coming back in even greater form on the next record.
- [92:59]
Scott Bertram
I want to say I'm going to jump around a bit here to make sure I say a few things. The one two Pops Love Suicide, Tumble in the Rough, the first two tracks after press play are both outstanding. Dean wrote Pops Love Suicide and he wrote himself this very Mike Campbell Campbell esque. Trailing closing Outro solo. I can only think of Mike Campbell when I hear Daleo play the outro on Pops Love Suicide.
- [93:25]
Jeff Blair
In a weird way. It's kind of, it's kind of like a Here Comes My Girl version where it's just like. It's all about the outro, really. The, the song itself doesn't really matter. It's. It's the outro that you're like, you're there for the glorious Mom.
- [93:40]
Unknown
I.
- [94:33]
Scott Bertram
Tumble in the Rough is the only song in the entire STP collection that is written solely by Wylan. He wrote the lyrics and wrote the melody. And this is where I want to mention Brennan O'Brien who produces again and again. I think O'Brien has a really good track record. It's not perfect, but a really good track record. And there's some choices he makes here that I love Tumble in the Rough particularly. But elsewhere on the album, Kretz's drums have this very springy quality. And again, a weird comparison. But I think of the way that Mitchell Fried Broom made Pete Thomas's drum sound on Brutal Youth. Like they just really boing. That snare has such a pop sound to it. And that's what he gets on a song like Tumble in the Rough. Jeff, you're wrong about tripping on a hole in a paper heart. You're right that it is. You're right that it is most reminiscent of the first two records. But the difference is there's like eight different hooks in that song that you can get into. You can like the fast riff, you can like the drum roll. The chorus is one in and of itself. Just the structure of the verses where it's like a two line call and a two line response. DeLeo's Dean Solo is out of this world. And then even the end of the song is something great too. Plus to make Mary happy, this is a great Robert Bass song. Just listen to Robert play bass on Tripping out a hole in a paper heart.
- [96:00]
Unknown
Cannot keep it on just to whisper Take a breath and make it big. It's a. I'm not dead, I'm not me.
- [96:53]
Scott Bertram
Yes. It's the most rockin thing on this record outside of maybe seven cage tigers. Which is again perverse that that might be the most like Radio Ready song on the record. And they bury it as the last track after this Daisy interstitial piece. That's fantastic. But Trippin on a Hole is like the most grungy thing. Probably, but it's different. It's still different. It's still a twist on what they were doing before. And that's a song that the drummer wrote, Eric Kretz wrote. All of them are contributing at this point to the. The albums flow and the way the albums sound. I don't know. Can we talk a bit about adhesive? I know you've got thoughts.
- [97:29]
Jeff Blair
I was okay okay. Okay. You know what, Scott? I was literally just about to go there. So, yes, let's do this together. So the thing is, you talk about everybody contributing. This to me is probably Scott Weiland's greatest lyric that he ever wrote for Snow and Temple Pilots, and this is the one that is most clearly about his drug problems and the conflation of, like, him being on the top of the world as a rock superstar and also just spiraling downwards into drug delirium. It is a slow, sad, beautiful, stately ballad that ends with that trumpet soul that you were talking about earlier, which is just, you know, Pearl Jam would never do that. But the lyrics there, you know, for a guy who's writing stuff, I've always made fun of the lyrics of Plush because, you know, you're always like, was, where are you going for tomorrow? It's about, like, a murder, like, murdering a woman. Like, there's nothing about that that's up. I'm sorry, but, like, no, you get to a song, like, adhesive, and the pain is very real, and the lyrics, like, like, actually pull it out. Comatose commodity Superheroes dying All the children are crying Sell more records if I'm dead. And he uses all these sort of, like, thinly veiled drug images. My friend Blue, he runs the show with Hot Pink, Purple, China Glow, that's a drug dealer who's selling you your, you know, your junk. And he's basically talking about, like, living in this. This fantasy land where he rock star who's, you know, being, you know, stuck up on refrigerators and on walls as a pinup, and yet he's dying inside. It's a very. Kind of a painful but moving song. And it's just so beautiful. And again, the. The way they end it is. This is the moment where you just have to say, like, yeah, yeah, they're not grunge. They're not anything. They're just Stone Temple Pilots. They're doing what they do now. Scott, what were your thoughts?
- [99:19]
Scott Bertram
Those. Those. Those thoughts, all of that.
- [99:23]
Jeff Blair
Still. Did I finally steal?
- [99:25]
Scott Bertram
Very similar. I mean, but look again, you cannot. This is a different planet from what Pearl Jam is doing, was doing at the time, would ever do. Different planet than Soundgarden. Different planet than Alice in Chains, even at this point. But, yeah, I mean, it's a very personal, very internal kind of song. Scott Weiland as a product, as a rock star, as a guy putting himself out there for others to consume. Grab the hate and drown it out Grab the beat and drown. Drum it out. It's so Confusing. And then when you think it's going to explode, it pulls back. That's where that trumpet section happens, right in the middle. And it's unexpected. You don't expect to hear the trumpet on a STP song. And yet it fits really perfectly. And you sort of slow burn toward the end of that song. Soaring, soaring. Pretty, pretty. Chorus.
- [100:39]
Unknown
Purple flowers Easy Pave here now Heaven Listen ain't the song and I am.
- [101:19]
Scott Bertram
Again, these weird comparisons I had had emailed you that chorus adhesive love. I can't sing but Ben Folds and missing the war from whatever and Ever Amen, which was a year after this. That's the same little progression there. I don't. I don't know if he stole it. I don't know if he was listening, but you can play him side by side. It sounds like the same thing.
- [101:40]
Jeff Blair
Does sound similar. Yeah.
- [101:42]
Scott Bertram
But this is absolutely one of the finest songs in the entire Stone Temple Pilots catalog. And it comes not buried, but toward the back end of an album that people kind of dismissed out of hand at the time. So I imagine a lot of people still need to find a song like adhesive and the very last thing I'll say and people can jump in, ride the cliche. It's a Dean song that is one of his best.
- [102:08]
Jeff Blair
Great title, by the way.
- [102:10]
Scott Bertram
Well, again, these are the best lyrics of his career. I think just because you're so cliche, it don't mean you don't get paid. Right. Which is what I like. They're not reinventing the wheel. We can write really good rock songs with a melodic hook with these big fat riffs. You're gonna like them. We're gonna sell records. You can call us cliche, you can say whatever you want. You're still gonna buy the record. Right? They're not reinventing the wheel, but I think, think that's one of just Dean's really killer guitar parts that the song just rides that. Those riffs from front to back and. And. And again. Then Daisy and Seven Cage Tigers, which is really a commercial radio ready song. It's buried at the very, very, very, very, very, very end of this.
- [103:45]
Jeff Blair
I mean, I think I. Mary, do you have any last thoughts on tiny music or shall we move on to number four, the very, very brusquely titled and Zeppelin esquely titled number four.
- [104:01]
Mary Chastain
I. I have to. I have to agree with Scott about tripping on a hole in a paper heart. It's also just fun. Again, okay, Wylan's voice, how he switches it up, like not Just from, you know, verse to chorus. But even in the verse, he switches up his voice and you. I thought, I'm like, oh, my gosh, is this a duet? No, it's still Sky. Scott Wyland. It cracked me up. I really had to look it up to make sure that this was him singing the whole entire song. And it was. I found it. I found it brilliant. I love that song. I absolutely love that song.
- [104:40]
Scott Bertram
Well, after.
- [104:42]
Mary Chastain
It's one of the. It's one of the songs that, again, shows. Hey, look, I'm not Eddie Vedder. I'm not. I'm Scott Weiland. I'm not, you know, writing anybody else's coattails. This is me.
- [104:53]
Scott Bertram
You've got to wait. You've got to wait. Now more than three years between albums and more Scott Weiland issues, we don't.
- [105:01]
Jeff Blair
Get to talk about. The triumphant Tiny Music tour, the World Globetrotting Tour, where they. They played all these songs and won the world over. What. What. Why didn't that happen?
- [105:10]
Scott Bertram
Well, that's a Scott Weiland problem. Yeah, unfortunately, and you want to explain, ended up with. With more arrests, more drug issues, attempts at rehab, and they were. Was 90, 96, 97. They were supposed to be touring Tiny Music, taking it everywhere, and instead they ended up canceling most of that tour because Weiland had additional drug problems, additional issues that kept him off the road row that was creating some fissures inside the band. He was sentenced to actually a one year jail sentence just before the release of number four in 1999. And so, no, they could not capitalize on whatever momentum they had. And again, the reviews were not great. They were kind of middling for Tiny Music, if not terrible, like the Pitchfork review, but it still got a lot of Radio Rock, Big Bang Baby and Tripping on a Hole and Lady Picture show all got radio play. All were hits. They would have had a willing audience to hear them play, but they couldn't make it happen. And at this point, we probably got a preview. This is the late 90s, right? This is yield is 98, if I'm not mistaken. But you've had now six years, seven years since core. And things change. And new rock bands come on the scene and you have this harder edge, you know, Limp Bizkit, Corn, the new metal, the alt metal, the aggressive, real hard rock. And that's not Tiny Music, which, again, is one of the reasons I really love it. But that's not Tiny music. So number four is released October of 1999. As we come to the end of the Millennium, the end of the decade. And it feels like they meant it to be a new beginning or a new path, perhaps. And because of these drug issues and because of the problems the band was having, it almost comes off as an. As an end in some way. It's odd to me, guys. And I'll hand this off, Number Four is a loud record for the most part. It's a hard record for the most part. The weirdest thing I think about it is I remember at the time it was pegged as like a back to basics record. We're going back to the Stonetown, all right, For. For a lot of bands, that means we're going back to the original thing. We're going back to the thing we did best for Stuntuple Pilots. What does that mean? Going back to decor. But we all agree that that's not the band.
- [107:42]
Jeff Blair
That wasn't what you did best, right?
- [107:43]
Scott Bertram
That wasn't what you did best. And so what?
- [107:46]
Jeff Blair
Why?
- [107:46]
Scott Bertram
What are you going back to base? What are you going back to?
- [108:03]
Unknown
You can get it if you really want it. But you better off just leave it alone. You won't get it if you ever had it. So you better watch your staying at home, she walking with a hell again and sister trying to get to heaven on Sunday. You never get it and you ever had. It's all you ever better.
- [108:38]
Jeff Blair
This is, again, we're so much on the same wave because now that I understand, like, the full scope of Stone Temple Pilots discography, the way I think of Number Four, this is. This one's totally new to me. This is one that I only like. The rest of these albums I only really listen to once we book the show. To me, it's the. The dip. Because what they do next is much better and much more in keeping with the tiny music ethos. This one is not a bad record, but it is the noticeable dip in what is, I guess, the. The thesis that we're arguing here is a surprisingly consistent discography. This is the one where, yeah, you hear them, like, trying to get too hard, heavy, too new metal, perhaps. And I think it's sometimes. Sometimes hurts ideas that would otherwise be good. But there are still some really great songs on this album. But your critique of the sound, and maybe the approach is dead on because this would. This would actually just be a blip. Not the way that they would develop because the next record they're back to, I think, what it is I liked most about them.
- [109:38]
Scott Bertram
Now. I actually came to like Number Four a bit better upon review this time, but I'm most interested in Mary's take. Because Mary, you're a turbo gal and. And that, you know, new metal. You like that?
- [109:52]
Jeff Blair
I love it.
- [109:53]
Scott Bertram
Where does number four fit in? And what did you think about stp maybe trying to fit in among those bands?
- [110:00]
Mary Chastain
I loved number four when I. The opening to Down.
- [110:04]
Scott Bertram
Oh my gosh, I do love that, I must say.
- [110:24]
Jeff Blair
Nice to meet you.
- [110:28]
Unknown
Nice to know me. What's a message? Will you show me how you wait how long time now now is the answer.
- [110:59]
Mary Chastain
Oh my gosh. I heard it and yeah, so 1999. Very much like 1990, you know, 1994 was probably one of the greatest years in music. Yeah, 1999 is another year. You have Slipknot who completely. They're kind of. You can't categorize them. They are their own. I mean, it's a nine piece band, you know, but you. And then you've got the big breakouts of Corn with, you know, I think it was Issues and then more Limp Bizkit and System of A D, you know, all of those bands.
- [111:36]
Scott Bertram
And Lincoln park too, is that.
- [111:38]
Jeff Blair
I was about to say Chester Bennington comes into this story at some point. So yeah, Lincoln Park.
- [111:44]
Mary Chastain
I don't think that they, you know, I. I know some other people have tried to especially like with down with new metal. Like, no, it's still Stone Temple Pilots. It's like it reminds me of Core, but they grew, you know. It sounds like a more mature core album to me. They listen to it and they're like, oh, we can, you know, we can improve on it. And I'm trying to think like exactly where, like, God, down reminds me, man.
- [112:19]
Jeff Blair
It almost.
- [112:20]
Mary Chastain
I don't think people are going to agree with me, but it kind of reminds me of Dead and Bloated and just.
- [112:28]
Scott Bertram
Well, it reminds me of Plush too in the way they pull the same trick of hiding the chorus until halfway through the song. You don't get the, you know, will you follow me down? Portion until at least two minutes until into that track. So they sort of steal that as well. And that down was the leadoff single. It's the first track of the album. It was the single that introduced number four to the masses. And that's a message, right? We are harder. It's a harder record. And Mary might disagree. I think the hardest portions of the record are the least successful. I think no Way out is kind of embarrassing. Embarrassing. I. I think no Way Out's a bad song.
- [113:18]
Unknown
My bed's taken by another I made the bed now I alone get out the way now mother.
- [113:33]
Scott Bertram
MC5 and sex and Violence. Like the parts where they're trying to say we can do these things that other people are doing now. And it ends up taking away their strength, which is the melody. And by the way, Scott, I will.
- [113:50]
Jeff Blair
Say this, that I don't love MC5, but MC5 as a song is still better than anything put out by the MC5, the original band named it after. By vast margins, in fact. So give them that much.
- [114:06]
Scott Bertram
All right. The hardest songs here obscure the strength of stp, which is that I can hear Robert playing that incredible bass line. I can hear Dean's kind of slinky riffs, and I can hear Eric Kretz. And instead it all sort of comes together in this ball of sound. But what I experienced this time going through number four is I think the other portions, the other half or so of the record, it's actually pretty successful. Church on Sunday. Church on Sunday is a great little pop tune with that climbing like vine like chords that that Dean has. In that pre chorus especially, you've got a song like Glide, which is very psychedelic, or not very, but at least semi psychedelic in nature. But that's a song that succeeds because it is so open. It's far more spacious than the other songs on this record. That sound is not crushed into a small little cube that you can put on your des.
- [115:04]
Unknown
Going all the way. Keep it coming. I'm Going all the way. Give Me a Half a Chance.
- [115:29]
Jeff Blair
Every.
- [115:30]
Unknown
Time.
- [115:44]
Scott Bertram
You know, in that same Ballpark is by far the most successful song on this record, which is Sour Girl. And that is the one.
- [115:52]
Jeff Blair
I'm stealing all my notes again. Scott. Damn it.
- [115:55]
Scott Bertram
That's the one most reminiscent of something from Tiny Music. And in an album this heavy, it really sticks out as something really nice. And this is another one. Mary. Robert's bassline dances all over. It's a tremendous bass line from Robert DiLeo. Lyrically, it's one of the most successful songs on the record. Again, where he's looking internally at this relationship that's gone bad. It's an ex wife, one of Scott's ex wives. But I was a superman but looks are deceiving I pay a ransom note to stop it from steaming this alimony that he's got he's got to pay. And the thing I like about Sour Girl that I realized actually just this morning as I was thinking about songs, is I think what I like about it most is that as a song, it does have. It makes you uncomfortable some of the Chord changes make you uncomfortable, and then at the end, it's unresolved. Like, you could see Sour Girl just keep going on and on and on. It's like this circuitous story that's being told that never is quite resolved.
- [116:56]
Unknown
What would you do? What would you do? What would you do? What would you do? Got reasons. They all got reason.
- [117:40]
Scott Bertram
I really like that about that track. And it was, I think, unexpectedly a. It's the only STP song to ever hit the Billboard top 100 as a single. And the Billboard charts of the 90s were really weird to discount. Yeah.
- [117:54]
Jeff Blair
Because, like, all the songs you heard on the radio weren't necessarily quote unquote, like, chart hit.
- [118:00]
Scott Bertram
Yeah. Billboard changed the way they did the charts in the 90s, which meant these rock songs didn't. Didn't qualify in many places. But Sour Girl is a tremendous song, and I. I think it's the. The highlight. Even though people think of it and it is, you know, a hard record in some places, it's those parts where they remember the strengths of the band that actually are most successful.
- [118:19]
Jeff Blair
I mean, I think that's exactly right, Scott. And there's one other song, really, the only thing I have to add that. That, that continues that idea, which is Atlanta, the last song on the record.
- [118:29]
Scott Bertram
I see. I was a little disappointed by it. I. I know what they were going.
- [118:32]
Jeff Blair
I like that song.
- [118:33]
Scott Bertram
I don't know.
- [118:33]
Jeff Blair
I like. I like that long, slow burn on that song. I mean, it is. It's obviously, it's not like. It's not like a compact pop genius, but, you know, of all things, it reminds me kind of My Morning Jacket, kind of long ra. You know, like, you know, emotional ballad. My Morning Jacket being another group that I wasn't really much familiar with until, like, I was introduced to them by the show. And now I really love. But I really. I think that as. As much as this album, to me is the dip between two surprisingly tall stools. I do like that song. And. Yeah, you stole everything I was about to say about Sour Girl, which to me is the true highlight of the record.
- [119:16]
Unknown
She lives by the. And waits by the door she walks in the sun to me Visions of Mexico seduce me it goes to my head so care for me Memories of candles and incense and all of these things. Remember these. She lives by the wall and waits by the door she walks in the song.
- [120:12]
Mary Chastain
Did you know that. That he wanted Sarah Michelle Geller in it because when he was in prison, he fell in love with Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
- [120:19]
Jeff Blair
Oh, God, that Seems like the most Scott Wyland thing to ever do. And it's. It's so ag. It's so cringely 90s to fall in love with like a Joss Whedon show too. I mean, like the Buffy the Vampire Slayer stuff. I'm so glad I missed out on that. When I was a kid, I was too busy listening. I was too busy listening to the who to get involved in all that awkward dork, like, you know, adolescent, like, you know, agonisties. I just listened to other people talking about how much they wish they Xander in real life. And I was just like, why? Why?
- [120:45]
Mary Chastain
Who's Xander? Yeah, I did it.
- [120:47]
Jeff Blair
Xander was like the. The. Like the. The. The tall.
- [120:51]
Mary Chastain
The blonde one, right?
- [120:52]
Jeff Blair
No, no, no, the black haired one. The nerd. Spike is the blonde vampire. He was the guy who eventually ended up with an eye patch. I think I never watched this thing. It's like one of those things that you only culturally osmos. Just like you. You. You did a lot of these. These songs. Now, Scott, I got a question. Do you have anything left to add about what for me, at least, is one of the more surprising, like, late period, out of nowhere, great records of this era.
- [121:21]
Scott Bertram
I can. I can move on, right? Yep.
- [121:24]
Mary Chastain
Yeah.
- [121:25]
Jeff Blair
Yeah. I mean, I'm. I'm shocked by you. I never even knew this album existed prior to booking the show. Shang was a 2004.
- [121:33]
Mary Chastain
I can't believe that. Oh, my God, I love number four. I love that album.
- [121:37]
Jeff Blair
I mean, number four is okay, but it to me, is a step down. Certainly what they had found on Tiny Music. Music. And then I. I mean, literally my first note that I wrote about this record, again, all new to me, is like Stone Temple Pilots has no business being this good this late in their career. Because this, to me, is actually what I mean again. You know, people who've listened to these albums for longer than I have can have better and better informed opinions. But this, to me, is a continuation of everything that I loved that was emerging on Purple came into full bloom on Tiny Music. And now we're hearing the real continuation of Back from the Dead.
- [122:16]
Unknown
I'm letting it go back for another one Tuesday Shoot me in the head I'm taking it back Taking it back I'm taking it back Wednesday she's looking for a friend she'll get what she wants can't seem to get enough she's down again I gotta find a way to find her where could she be on days of the week?
- [123:03]
Scott Bertram
So I. I disagree slightly and I'll Let you guys make cases. This is not a bad album. Please don't understand me saying it this way, but I think of the core six here with Scott Weiland involved, it is clearly my least favorite of them. It was supposed to be a double album. They wrote a ton of songs for Shangri La Dada and nearly got it done as a double album, but cut it down near the end to it to a single disc. I especially trying to think how to best say this. I think even with the songs on number four, I think that this is maybe the one that has the most nondescript songs, meaning one from the other. Especially with Dean's riffs, you usually can identify. This is this song. This is that song. And there are places here where that's certainly true. Hollywood is a great Dean song.
- [123:59]
Jeff Blair
No reason that the song with a title, we were joking about this before the show is like a song with a title like the name. Hollywood has no right to be as. As poppy and as like fun to listen to as it actually is.
- [124:10]
Scott Bertram
It's a great chorus and those stair stepping riffs are big, big fun. And that's when the album's at.
- [124:25]
Unknown
It. You never lose it. Cause you never had it. It's how I say it rocks. Hollywood bitch. So fake. She seems real, she goes again and we. She seems real, she goes again.
- [125:06]
Scott Bertram
And I think some of the slower moments here, which generally have been successful for stp, don't work quite as well. Like Wonderful is a fine little song, but it's kind of nondescript. Hello. It's late.
- [125:16]
Jeff Blair
Oh, we're going to disagree. Okay.
- [125:18]
Scott Bertram
Yes, you can go on. It's okay. You know the one reference that I found Find myself because the album gets a little smoother the deeper, deeper you go into it. There are two songs or maybe even three songs late that I'm listening to. And you know, we've done this so, so many episodes, Jeff. Sometimes something your mind wants to remind you of something but you can't think about it. You can't. You can't pull it. So I'm. I'm deep into Shingri La and I hear Black Again. Oh. Because I have.
- [125:45]
Jeff Blair
I have my own reference. Like what song does it come from? I hope if it's the same one as I'm thinking, I'm gonna laugh.
- [125:50]
Scott Bertram
This is actually, I. I think it's actually opposite, meaning mine's pushing forward. So Black Again and Transmissions from a Lonely Room and particularly Bipolar Bear. What I hear in those three tracks is late era Oasis, like Dig Out Your soul era, Oasis, which is a surprisingly outstanding record from late in Oasis's career. Those songs are really. And this is nine, eight years prior. I think those songs sound really close. Like that. That former Brit pop that Oasis is mastering by the end of their career. STP's doing seven, eight years earlier on Shangri La Da Da. They sound very similar. So I like Bipolar Bear. And again, this is not me saying it's a bad album. Terrible album. It is. I think some of the songs here, it's like if they just would have worked a little bit. Like, they spent so much time writing third 35 songs, when. If they would have taken these 12 and spent just a little more time in a little. Something more interesting and a little. A little hookier, I think it would have been better.
- [127:36]
Unknown
Can't Sleep behind the St.
- [127:46]
Jeff Blair
Okay, so I absolutely see what you're saying there when you say that there's like. There's no big, like, jumping. There's no jump out stank single on this record, right? There's nothing that, like, announces itself and says, like, well, that's an stp. Big, you know, like, you know, ironclad pop hook. But then, yeah, wonderful. I love that ballad. That ballad. You said you didn't care for it. And to me, you know, it sounds like for all the world, like a Suede song. And. And Suede, this. This UK glam.
- [128:14]
Mary Chastain
I love Suede.
- [128:16]
Jeff Blair
Okay, so I love Suede, too. I mean, I won't. That's one of my White Whale episodes. We'll do a Suede episode someday. And Scott, you're gonna love him too, man. Especially when you get to the beach.
- [128:25]
Scott Bertram
I know a little Suede. I like him. Yeah, the little. I know.
- [128:28]
Jeff Blair
I like this wonderful sounds for all the world. Like something from Dogman Star, like one of those graceful ballads and that. So this would be them, you know, imitating.
- [128:39]
Unknown
Her. You're the everything Let me to believe you're the wondering everything that. That's wonderful.
- [129:21]
Jeff Blair
But black again. That's the one that makes me laugh. Like when. When the Delos, they write in that waltz time, it sounds for all the world like a glammed up version of like, a Brian Wilson tune from Friends. You know, the Beach Boys album Friends? Like, I swear to God, you can even sing. Been friends now for so many years. You could do that over the instrumental breaks on that song, right? It's the same waltz beat. And that, to me, that's the kind of quirk, like, why are you listening to, like. Like Forgotten Lake Beard, Beach Boys? It clearly shines through on the songs. And I love that. I love that. Hello, It's Late. It's another sweet little ballad. And with the electric piano in the arrangement. It's the electric piano there that gives it, like, that nice. Very kind of a chill vibe. Life.
- [130:22]
Unknown
Carry you to the sh when you're tired she can't sleep, she's not well she can't breathe she's in bed she's in the bed she can't eat she can't sleep, she's not.
- [131:01]
Jeff Blair
And then you have songs like more Besque pop and I'm Sorry, Mary, you don't like the Beatles, but I love them. I know Scott loves them, but, like two cool housewives, I mean, again, that's a McCartney esque kind of a rip. And these are the kinds of things that make me, like, really happy to discover a record like this that I never even, like, even believed existed. Now, I get what Scott says. There's. There's no, like, you know, iconic Vaseline moment on it. But I think this, to me, is a much more consistent record than number four, which is why I prefer it. And it goes back to the cork. The cork, which is really what Stone Temple Pilots had developed in their music during this part of the career. That's what I really appreciate about them.
- [131:42]
Scott Bertram
All right, you got to break the tie, Mary. One thumb up, one thumb, like, sideways. What do you think about Shangri? La Da Da?
- [131:51]
Mary Chastain
It's okay.
- [131:54]
Jeff Blair
You're not even doing the tie breaker.
- [131:56]
Mary Chastain
Nope. I like it. I mean, I'll listen to it, you know what I mean? But it's not up or down for me. I just think of it as kind of there. Now, granted, at this time, I was in the middle of college, really busy. I was listening to music, but I was so stuck in the early 90s that I wasn't really listening to newer music, I guess you can say. So I didn't really get into it until after college. I did love How Wyn, they wanted to dedicate it to Andrew Wood. You know, that's one of the biggest whiffs in music. You know, what if he hadn't died.
- [132:51]
Jeff Blair
We'D not have Pearl Jam, though. I don't know. I mean, I'm kind of glad Eddie Vedder found a role in the rock star firmament, to be honest.
- [132:59]
Mary Chastain
But I mean, like, you know, with, you know, you can also expand it, though, to, you know, Nirvana, because, you know, the fame got to Kurt, you know, and Andrew Wood wanted that fame. He did. You reminded me of Scott Weiland. Reminded me of him, sort of the showman. So I did. Yeah, he wanted it. He loved it. My favorite song on this album is a song for sleeping. I love that song.
- [133:37]
Scott Bertram
Any particular. Does it help you sleep?
- [133:40]
Mary Chastain
It's just so sweet because he wrote it about his son, his newborn baby, and maybe it's a maternal thing. I don't know. I just found it really sweet. I think it's very moving. The acousticness to it just. It's just sweet. It kind of goes back to shows that, you know, like, a lot of their slower stuff really shows their talent more than the heavier stuff, at least to me, for the most part. It's a different angle with them also. Yeah, he wrote it for his baby. So sweet. I love it. I love. I love that song. That's like. When it comes on, I'll press. Play again, play again, play again, play again.
- [134:40]
Unknown
In the morning and I pour the coffee you're always smiling sweetly and when.
- [134:53]
Scott Bertram
You lie.
- [134:57]
Unknown
Down sleep? I'll protect you from the demons of the night While I want Watching you grow. There's so much I could teach you if you won't f time there's so much God could teach you with you won't have time.
- [135:36]
Mary Chastain
I liked it. I love it.
- [135:38]
Scott Bertram
Well, the. The album itself was not as successful as number four, kind of declining returns at this point. And they were supposed to work on an album in. In 2002, but there were reports that they were not getting along very well, particularly between Dean and. And Scott at the last show with their 2002 tour. And Atlantic, their record label, puts out a greatest hits album around this time, which is called thank you, which kind of gives you the indication that maybe they're done right, and they. They soon would be. But thank you is a. Is a good greatest hits collection. And there's one. Well, the. The. The acoustic version of Plush is on here from the Headbangers ball, which previously was not available on a release. And then there's one.
- [136:27]
Jeff Blair
I play it all the time on xrt, and I'm just like, give me the guitar, Ve. Please give me the electric version.
- [136:32]
Scott Bertram
There is one new song here if you guys. I. I don't think it's. I think it's fine, but I don't have much to say about all in the suit that you wear. That's a unreleased song that's on this greatest hits album called thank you from 2003. And then after that, well, band's gone silent for a while. They break up. And both. Both halves, or I guess you know, 3/4 and 1/4 go their separate ways. And this is again, we're not going to have time nor, I mean, quite frankly, interest. I don't want to talk about Velvet Revolver, quite frankly, but Scott, I don't care about it. Right. Scott Weiland goes and joins Slash in Velvet Revolver. That he apparently had to be asked multiple times to join them before agreeing to do so. And wrote lyrics to the Velvet Revolver tunes. Commercially pretty successful. Fall to Pieces. Big Velvet Revolver.
- [137:20]
Mary Chastain
I love Velvet Revolver.
- [137:21]
Scott Bertram
Yeah. And so Scott Weiland played plays with Velvet Revolver. The other guys in Stone Temple Pilots go and play in this supergroup called army of Anyone, which also includes Richard Patrick from the band Filter and a drummer whose name I can't recall. So it's the Daleo Brothers and this drummer and Richard Patrick from Filter and army of Anyone. You haven't probably heard much of army of Anyone. So that's all we want to say about that. Toward the end of the decade though, the band reunites. There's hope as the four get back together again and tour a little bit In I think 2008 is when they first get back together and start doing some touring and they feel pretty good and they're thinking about writing material. There's apparently some behind the scenes legal fight between Atlantic and STP about how many more albums they they owe the record label. Usually a greatest hits record is your. That's it, you've completed your responsibility, what you owe the label. Apparently Atlantic said no, there's more and STP said no, there's not. They reached some sort of settlement anyway which allows them to record new material, release an album without Brendan O'Brien. The brothers produced this one and it's self titled in 2010. And I gotta tell you, I was so happy to have them back. I really. Because by that point I had found tiny music and really loved, loved it. By that point I had gone back and re listened to Number four and other things. So to have them back on the road, I remember they did a TV special, I don't remember where it was released, but of one of the first songs or one of the first dates on this tour. And it sounded pretty damn good. And so the stealth title album comes out in 2010 and I gotta say the way that Jeff kind of feels about Shangri La Dada is the way I feel about this self titled release in 2010. Everybody loves a happy ending. And I'll just begin by saying I think this is a really nice note for the band to inadvertently go out on. And one of the reasons I think it's so successful is they remember.
- [139:33]
Jeff Blair
What.
- [139:33]
Scott Bertram
I was mentioning earlier, which is it's good to hear all of them working together, but also hearing all of them separately in a piece of music. And so a lot of the songs on the self titled from 2010, you hear Robert playing bass, you hear Dean's riffs, you hear Eric Kretz on the drum kit. Weiland's vocals are a little bit higher register. You can tell his voice has changed a little bit by this point. There are some places where he's clearly emulating other vocalists on this record, which I'll talk about in a little bit. But guys, this is really good. There's a lot of 60s, 70s influence. There's a country rock influence. Everybody is involved in the writing again, the. This self titled disc from 2010. Self titled album from 2010 is quite good.
- [140:35]
Unknown
Loud out. Loud out.
- [141:07]
Jeff Blair
I have to say, like, the last thing I expected Stone Temple Piles to start exploring at the tail end of their career was country rock sounds, right? But there you have it. And they actually pull it off with stuff like a hickory dichotomy, Huckleberry crumble.
- [141:23]
Scott Bertram
And all that stuff. I gotta ask you. I don't want to. I want to ruin this hickory dichotomy. Who does that remind you of? Who does that remind you of?
- [141:30]
Jeff Blair
No, I don't have a poll for you.
- [141:32]
Scott Bertram
Who.
- [141:32]
Jeff Blair
Who is it supposed to remind?
- [141:33]
Scott Bertram
Me, I think. I think Wyland's doing a very obvious Ian Hunter impression vocally. And there's even a little.
- [141:42]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, exactly.
- [141:44]
Mary Chastain
Oh, my gosh. Yes.
- [141:45]
Scott Bertram
Yeah.
- [141:46]
Jeff Blair
And then that's sort of like all the young dudes. Hey there. Exactly.
- [141:52]
Unknown
As the apostles.
- [141:53]
Scott Bertram
Y. No.
- [141:58]
Unknown
Is it a hickory hypothesis? A woman show or take a rest or take a revel in the light of lights. But the tall tale teasers keep sneaking in my show tonight. All right. You telling my story about you don't know my name. It's a hickory economy. You're messing with my sharing the story, are you? Holy. A lion. Hickory dickory.
- [142:43]
Scott Bertram
So, I mean, that is. And then hickory dichotomy follows the insanely. Now if you get this one wrong, Jeff, I'm sorry, the show's over. Huckleberry Crumble. Who's he trying to beat?
- [142:56]
Jeff Blair
Don't stop. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not playing games. You just. I want you to give me your. Your. Your answer, because I'm probably right. But I don't want to end the show today.
- [143:04]
Scott Bertram
Huckleberry Crumbles clearly Aerosmith he's, he's, he's. He's channeling early.
- [143:09]
Jeff Blair
We'd have had to end the show. Okay, so there you go.
- [143:11]
Scott Bertram
Yeah, he's clearly channeling early. Tyler, you know, before his voice dropped and it's.
- [143:16]
Jeff Blair
I hear it now.
- [143:17]
Scott Bertram
Absolutely. A. The Dean's playing and even the structure is the same as same old song and dance. That is one of the clearest Aerosmith, you know, not a pastiche, but homage that you'll hear anywhere. But it fits the. It fits the band. It fits the band really well.
- [143:32]
Jeff Blair
It works.
- [143:44]
Unknown
Feeling like I'm pulling away I'm feeling like I'm sinking in shoulder at a time the lessons of our. Lessons of our lives.
- [144:23]
Jeff Blair
These are the things like. So this is. Again, this is what I meant when I said like, I was like shocked at how good this band kept being late into their career. But this is a perfectly fine album. It's a little different from Shangri La Da because it's. I guess it leans less on sort of the weird folky or poppy, you know, like left Field tricks. It. This actually is more in a weird way kind of back to the basics of what Stone Temple Pilots was good at. Being Purple basics. Let's call it that. Not core basics. Right. But yeah, no, it's a very fun record. And I think I actually just named my two favorite songs on the record is those two, by far. Right. And it's. It's a shame that I wasn't able to pull the obvious musical associations that you had with them.
- [145:04]
Scott Bertram
I've probably spent a little more time than you have, so don't worry about it. Before I talk more. Before I talk more. Mary, what do you think about the song, self titled album from 2010?
- [145:14]
Mary Chastain
It's rock and roll. You know, like you said, it goes back to that. And again it show. I think it also shows their maturity. Like they grew off of. You know, they grew more. They took core and purple and they're like, okay, how can we expand this? And they did it. Wylan's voice though, you can tell that, hasn't it? Yeah, yeah, you can tell that it's take. Yeah. Wait, I'm not. I still think he was great and everything, but. Oh my gosh. You can tell that. Yeah, everything took a toll on him.
- [145:53]
Scott Bertram
It's a different. It's a different tone and there are some. There are a couple places on here where I'm making accusations. It does sound like it's been sweetened a bit. Like there's a little bit of EQ Something that's not pure Wylan voice. There's something helping them out just a little bit in places here.
- [146:10]
Mary Chastain
Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah. I thought leading it off with between the Lines was great. Like, hey, here we are.
- [146:20]
Scott Bertram
Okay, we're back. I'll stop you very quickly because I think between the Lines is the best Stone Temple pilot song since tiny Music. I think it's better than anything on number four or Shanghai. It is a fantastic song. And, Jeff, to your point where you're saying, go back to basics, being back to Purple, this is Vaseline in 2010. This is that buzzy flow momentum of Vaseline, that crunchy pop in the chorus, a really good solo, nice middle eight, and it immediately smacks you. It's not the aggressive new metal, alt metal, but it's loud and in your face. Bass. And again, you hear bass, you hear vocal, you hear Dean's guitar. Everything has its place in the mix. Between the Lines is a smash of a song.
- [147:21]
Unknown
To get back what you love. We talk about love. I like it when we talk about love. You always were my favorite tr. Even when we used to take drug. Even when we used to take. Even when we used to take. Even where we used to take. Even where we used to take.
- [147:54]
Mary Chastain
And it kind of made me mad that they did lead it off, because, again, it's like one of those songs where I'll just be like, play again. Play again. It's like one that I could just listen to on repeat all day long. Like, I mean, even when I was, like, trying to, you know, trying to re. Listen to this for the show, I'm like, oh, shoot, I shouldn't have started at the top, because now I just want to listen to between the Lines.
- [148:19]
Jeff Blair
What it makes me realize, though, is actually how. Again, to return to how good Stone Temple Pilots were at sequencing their albums. You'll notice that none of the big, big singles. I mean, Vaseline is number two on Purple, but, like, all, like, Big Empty, which was the big single. That's, like, at the end of the album, they sequenced these records usually very well. We're now in 2010. All the rules have changed. Maybe they wanted to eagerly announce themselves so they put the big hit at number one. Whereas once upon a time, they'd have stashed that one back at number seven. Or maybe at the end of the album, like seven Gauge Tigers.
- [148:52]
Mary Chastain
Right?
- [148:52]
Scott Bertram
Yeah, right. I think. I think Roberts. Go ahead. Go ahead, Mary.
- [148:57]
Mary Chastain
Oh, these, like, these albums, like, you know, you. You said, you know, with, like, with blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, oh, my gosh. Purple and tiny music. You know, it's kind of like the first song was reminiscent of the. The before album, right? And then like, oh, my gosh, with these, with number four and Shangri Lady D. And this one is like, nope, here we are now gonna give it to you right off the bat.
- [149:27]
Scott Bertram
I think Robert's got the best moments on this record from a songwriting perspective. Robert writes between the lines. Robert writes Huckleberry Crumble, which is the Aerosmith homage. Robert writes what I think is one of the really sweet, breezy songs that they hadn't recorded something. Well, Days of the Week is actually kind of in the same ballpark. But Cinnamon, right at the center of this record is such a wonderful little piece of music. And again, I think Weiland's lyrics by this point are falling off again. But this is one where he's writing about something personal. He's writing about another ex wife. I think he had three or four. But because it's so personal, you actually get a pretty good set of lyrics from Wineland on this one. And Robert writes this just breezy, upbeat, fun, little hints of like six late 60s Brit pop in there. Cinnamon's a fun, fun song.
- [150:36]
Unknown
Yeah, come on, come on now yeah, come on, come on now yeah, come on, come on now yeah, come on, come on I'd like to write a story for you Just a little melody Pretty for you Hear me, can you hear me hear me can you hear me hear me can you hear me, me now? Never condescend to hum me, my dear Always speak the words you love me to Hear me Can you hear me hear me can you hear me hear me can you hear me now?
- [151:19]
Scott Bertram
And then, I think Dean also contributes good stuff.
- [151:22]
Jeff Blair
There are.
- [151:22]
Scott Bertram
There are three tracks at the end, and all of them have very distinctive Dean, you know, riffs to start. Bagman, Peacoat, Fast as I Can. He wrote all three of those. They're all consecutive. And again, you know, each of them as they start. Because Dean is so distinctive with the way he plays that guitar.
- [151:40]
Mary Chastain
Absolutely.
- [151:42]
Scott Bertram
And unfortunately.
- [151:46]
Jeff Blair
I was lost for words because I was wondering, well, what do we say about what happens next?
- [151:51]
Scott Bertram
I was going to say it's unexpected, but looking back on his life, it's also not. Not all that unexpected because Scott Weiland, again, continue. It's, you know, I was gonna say.
- [152:04]
Mary Chastain
I'm shocked he lived as long as he did.
- [152:06]
Scott Bertram
Right. It's not necessarily a lifelong struggle, but certainly a career long struggle with drugs. And Wyland and the band end up putting things back on the Shelf. And Wyland goes on these solo tours playing to kind of smaller and smaller crowds. And eventually, sadly, in 2015, up in Minnesota, he's found out of bus accidental drug overdose at. He's dead at the age of 48 years old. And I mean, I think what, what.
- [152:42]
Jeff Blair
First must be mentioned though is that the drug problems had become such an issue that STP fired him. I mean there, there are some albums here that we're not really going to talk about just because it's not. I'm not blaming Chester Bennington, who himself was also haunted by de demons, bless his soul of Linkin park. And those records, the reasons they're not good have nothing to do with Bennington. They, they have more to do with, I think, just the fact that the music in terms of its songwriting had fallen off. And also, yeah, Wyland really did bring some sort of focus to the group in terms of his obsessions and his lyrical themes. And you know, again, perhaps it's just that sort of four man mix where there's a quality control being exercised by the group as a whole that kept them in, in that vibe. And when he's gone, it's just really not the same without him. So like they actually released like an album or two before Wy died. And I, I don't even, I never listened to them, you know, and the issue is really that it was a four part band and without Wyland it's just not quite the same. And that's probably the greatest tribute you could pay to a guy who took a lot, I mean, probably more than his fair share of media hate over his life for being the pretty boy, poser guy and drug addict. Remember we talked about that Pitchfork, you know, reviewers like, I hope this guy just OD's and kills himself. I'm so sick of him. That was an attitude that was cavalierly expressed back in the day. And I remember it well because I was there. You know, it was, it was an easier, cheaper time for these sorts of things. But the man was haunted by demons and you know, he obviously succumbed to them. And it's, it's sad, but it should not be forgotten what an important part of the group he was and why they were really never the same without him.
- [154:40]
Scott Bertram
Mary, I am curious a bit because Lincoln Park, Chester Bennington again, that's right up your alley. Do you have any particular thoughts about how Chester Bennington fit in with the band or the music they produced, which I think was just an episode. Another singer, Jeff Gut, came in and They've released a couple albums with him, but anything in particular to note about Bennington's time with the band that you noticed?
- [155:06]
Mary Chastain
Oh, my gosh. This is another thing. I'm not a big Linkin park fan. I, Man, I don't hate them. I don't love them.
- [155:17]
Jeff Blair
Where's your Chicago Pride? Come on now.
- [155:20]
Mary Chastain
I know, I'm like, I, I, I just find it so. I didn't listen to the EP until like a few days ago, and I thought, okay, it's okay.
- [155:31]
Jeff Blair
It's just not that important.
- [155:32]
Mary Chastain
Yeah, exactly. And so, and to be honest, I haven't, I didn't even bother listening to. Yeah, no, I, I didn't even, I.
- [155:42]
Jeff Blair
Briefly scanned him and I was just, it was, I don't know. I mean, I'm, I was surprised myself because the first thing I thought when I got into the show is that, like, well, STP really turns out to be a musical proposition and not a lyrical one. But the longer I stayed with the music, I realized how much W. And brought to it through his, not just his, his lyrics, but really through his vocals, through the, the flexibility of his singing voice.
- [156:06]
Scott Bertram
He was amusing.
- [156:06]
Jeff Blair
The fact that he.
- [156:07]
Scott Bertram
Go ahead.
- [156:08]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, he was, he could, he, he, he was like Bowie, like, in the sense that he would adopt several different voices. People gave him crap for trying to be like that back in the day, but I think now we can appreciate that was actually the smart and I think, artistically creditable move.
- [156:26]
Scott Bertram
What I was going to say. Yeah, I was going to say that what it comes down to, the musical proposition of Stone Temple Pilots in the end, is that they were four talented parts of a whole. And I mean, you could take one out and the mix was not the same. But as I said, it's perverse to think, think of them as, as, as a band, as four guys who were influenced by other people to play songs like in the grunge, in the, you know, to, to become a part of the grunge movement or that they're just second or third rate Allison Chains wannabes or any. Because the more.
- [157:05]
Jeff Blair
You're way better than Alison Chains. No offense. I mean, Allison Chains had a good album, but. Yeah.
- [157:10]
Mary Chastain
Excuse me.
- [157:11]
Scott Bertram
See, I know you're gonna piss off Mary.
- [157:13]
Jeff Blair
I, I like Dirt, but come on.
- [157:16]
Scott Bertram
The more.
- [157:17]
Mary Chastain
Excuse me.
- [157:21]
Jeff Blair
At the end of the show, violence breaks out.
- [157:23]
Scott Bertram
The more you listen, the deeper you listen, you understand that. As I've said a couple of times now, the magic of Stone Temple Pilots is hearing all four of these musicians play their parts. Robert tremendous Bass lines. Excellent writer. Dean was sort of the sweetness of the band. Meaning when you talk about 12 gracious melodies, they're gracious melodies because Dean knows the hooks and the riffs and the chords that will strike the ear and get you to remember and, you know, sing along. Dean knows that Eric Kratz was not just, as Mary said at the start, a timekeeper. He was able to add his fills, his roles. They really added to the momentum of these songs. And then Weiland, you know, Jeff started saying, I thought this was just a Weiland thing. And I realized it was actually know Daleo's wrote a lot of stuff. By the end, it was almost the opposite, that people thought Wylan was just like this hood ornament that was at the front of the band and had red hair and sang, but was not all that integral or right. I think by the end, certainly he thought he was not given the credit he deserved for writing the lyrics, writing some of the music for some of these songs. Starting the band with Robert way back when, 1985, and the realization you come to is that this is a unique combination of four musical ingredients. And as they found themselves toward the middle of the career of tiny music, were capable of some really transcendent, beautiful musical moments that deserve to be heard and not just slagged as some remnant of the 1990s grunge movement.
- [159:19]
Jeff Blair
I mean, you summed it up perfectly for me, Scott. This is just another one of those episodes that I've enjoyed doing so much simply because it gave me a chance to reconnect with something that I knew intimately from my childhood but didn't really appreciate properly. And now I do.
- [159:35]
Scott Bertram
All right. I think we've come to that part of the episode where we are able to give you your two albums you must own from the band and five songs you really should hear from Stone Temple Pilots. Our guest, Ameri Chastain, writer, editor at Legal Insurrection. We turn the floor over to you. You can give us the two albums people should own five songs from STP's career. They really need to hear. Mary.
- [159:58]
Mary Chastain
Oh, my gosh. So, okay, so this was, of course, you know, really hard to do. Everybody should have number four. Okay. I love that album. And tiny music.
- [160:15]
Scott Bertram
Okay. And the five songs.
- [160:18]
Mary Chastain
Oh, my gosh. You had to make me pick just five.
- [160:22]
Jeff Blair
Just five, Yeah. I hope you prepared. Yeah, it was tough for me, too. Believe it or not, I have. I. Unlike you, I've been doing this for, like, 130 episodes. So I have a plan.
- [160:35]
Mary Chastain
I did list them, but you know, after doing the episode, I'm like, my gosh. Number one, though. Yeah. Interstate Love Song. I mean, it's like that's impossible not. Not to have. You know what I mean? That is classic. And believe it, Believe it or not, I wrote them down and it's all like singles. Like, it's none of. Of the hidden ones. I. I don't want it.
- [161:02]
Jeff Blair
Just whatever. What? Go with your gut.
- [161:04]
Mary Chastain
Okay. Big Bang baby. I know that one got a lot of crap, you know, from other people coming out, but I'm like, oh my gosh, it's so much fun. And then Lady Picture show creep, because right off the bat it shows again. He's not any better. It's amazing. How many was that?
- [161:27]
Scott Bertram
That's four. You got one more.
- [161:28]
Mary Chastain
That's four. Okay. Yeah. Tripping on a hole in a paper heart.
- [161:31]
Jeff Blair
There you go.
- [161:32]
Scott Bertram
All right. My two albums are the ones we spent the most on most time on today. Purple and Tiny Music. Those are the STP albums you should own. And you should, I mean, you should own those two albums. The songs I pick largely aren't the singles, largely aren't the hits. They're still fantastic songs. And again, ones I think that you should hear to appreciate the depth and breadth of the musical ability of these guys. Lounge Fly from Purple. Fantastic tune. And still remains also from Purple are those two songs from Tiny Music. I agree with Mary. Disagree with Jeff. Chirping out A Hole at a Paper Heart is an outstanding tune. Count the hooks, count the different ways they try to attract your attention and your love and adhesive. One of the finest moments in the band's career. And then my fifth track, as I said, it's the best song post Tiny Music in their career. I think between the Lines from The self titled 2010 album is really outstanding. You should grab that one too. Jeff, over to you.
- [162:40]
Jeff Blair
I mean, unfortunately, because you've basically been stealing my thoughts all podcast long. Scott. We're gonna, we're gonna kind of align, but of course I'm gonna go with my typical thing where I'm gon to choose his top two albums. It's obviously Purple and Tiny Music. And so that's easy. The five songs will be songs from other stuff that aren't on those albums because you should just get those records and listen to them. Complete plush. Okay, yeah, it's slow, it's sludgy, it's the big famous radio song. But at the end of the time, I still love it when they go into that where you going for tomorrow? Like chorus Rift. It still hits me. It's still great. And then I guess also from chorus, I'll say Wicked Garden because that's, that was actually the one that like gave him some speed and some, some motion. Yes, it's a bit of an apple, an Adam and Eve apple cliche. I want to run through your wicked garden and all that. But yeah, it's still a great hard rock song.
- [163:35]
Mary Chastain
So it's one of the most underappreciated singles.
- [163:38]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, I believe so. And skipping the next two because again, I already mentioned them. I'll say Sour Girl from number four, which is the one that really kind of recaptures that, that tiny music, you know, the ethos. Also say Black again from la. I love it again. You know, you give me a rewrite of Brian Wilson's Friends era kind of Beach Boys music and I'm in for it. And again, Scott, I think we're in agreement. I, I, I've been debating which song from the self titled album I'd go with as the best. But yeah, it is probably between the lines. That's just classic Stone Temple Pilots. And yeah, I, I almost wish that they'd put it at track seven so that people would have to earn their way there and hear all the other really cool stuff. But as a kickoff to that album, it's it great way to go out, really kind of as their final legacy.
- [164:37]
Unknown
Love I like it when we talk about love I like it when you talk about love. You always want a favor and that tr Even when we used to take drug Even when we used to take Used to take you where we used to take Take you where we used to take Used to take you where we used to take take, take and.
- [165:10]
Scott Bertram
Like Mary, I, I hit repeat on that one. It is difficult.
- [165:15]
Jeff Blair
It's really, it's really good.
- [165:16]
Mary Chastain
It's hard not to. It really is.
- [165:20]
Scott Bertram
There we go. One that we've wanted to do for a while. We couldn't have done it without Mary. Our Political Beats look at the career of Stone Temple Pilots. Mary Chastain, writer editor at Legal Insurrection. Find her work@legal insurrection.com she's on Xastain 81. We like her. Even though she's a Cubs fan, she sometimes contributes to the Hill, Washington Examiner, Reason Fee elsewhere. Mary, thank you for joining us for our Stone Temple Pilots episode of Political Beats. We appreciate it.
- [165:51]
Mary Chastain
I appreciate you. As you know, I have a huge music fan, so anytime I can talk about music instead of politics, I take it. I think I drive my friends crazy because all I want to do is talk about music.
- [166:05]
Jeff Blair
Quite literally. That is why this show exists.
- [166:08]
Scott Bertram
That's right. That's right, Jeff. We are coming toward the end of 20 at this point. So we got our Ask Us Anything exclusive content show in December. We've got our look back on people we lost in 2024 in January. And we have to determine whether or not Stevie Wonder is going to be one part or two parts as we get to the end of the year. So work for us to be done.
- [166:29]
Jeff Blair
Would you believe I woke up this morning pondering the Stevie Wonder problem?
- [166:33]
Scott Bertram
Yes, I can believe that too.
- [166:37]
Jeff Blair
Rolled out of bed. That was my thought.
- [166:39]
Scott Bertram
Find Jeff on X at so tyrannical cd I'm there too. Scottbertram don't forget to please join us at Patreon for those special episodes. The exclusive content episodes Patreon.com Political Beats Support us Help the show stay ad free, entry level, mid level and our upper level friends there. Don't forget to subscribe for new episodes, Apple Podcasts tune in elsewhere and Reddit. National review.com click on podcasts by the way, Facebook yes x politicalbeats join the conversation there. This has been a presentation of National Review. This is political beats.
- [167:53]
Unknown
The second album. 12 pressure melodies worth listening.
- [168:03]
Scott Bertram
Hope you enjoy them.