Episode 144: Steve Singiser / Def Leppard

Summary

Political Beats: Episode 144 - Steve Singiser on Def Leppard

Host: Scot Bertram
Co-Host: Jeff Blair
Guest: Steve Singiser
Release Date: March 10, 2025
Podcast: Political Beats by National Review

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Introduction

Political Beats, hosted by Scot Bertram and Jeff Blair of National Review, delves into the intersection of politics and music by exploring the musical passions of political figures. In Episode 144, the duo welcomes back Steve Singiser, a former contributing editor at Daily Kos Elections and current contributor at Down Ballot. The episode focuses on Def Leppard, a British hard rock band renowned for their influence in the 1980s music scene.

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Steve Singiser’s Background and Connection to Def Leppard

Steve Singiser shares his extensive background in political journalism and his deep-seated passion for rock music, particularly Def Leppard. He recounts how his love for the band began in childhood, influenced by growing up as an MTV enthusiast in the early 1980s.

[05:29] Steve Singiser: "I think almost by default, anybody of a certain age, who came of age in the early '80s and was an MTV kid, it's almost unavoidable that you became a Def Leppard fan."

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Def Leppard’s Rise to Fame: Early Years and Initial Albums

The conversation traces Def Leppard's origins in Sheffield, England, their formation, and the release of their early work, including the Def Leppard EP and their debut album, On Through the Night. Steve emphasizes the band's precociousness and determination to achieve success despite their young ages.

[27:19] Steve Singiser: "They had barely played live together when they sort of willed themselves into existence by putting together this EP."

Scot and Jeff reminisce about their personal connections to Def Leppard’s music, highlighting iconic tracks like "Photograph" and "Foolin'".

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Exploration of Key Albums

Pyromania (1983)

Pyromania marked a significant turning point for Def Leppard, showcasing their collaboration with producer Robert John "Mutt" Lange. The album featured hits like "Photograph" and "Rock of Ages," which became staples on MTV and radio.

[35:11] Scott Bertram: "Foolin' is the best song on the record... it attracts you in myriad ways."

The discussion touches on the album's production quality, Lange's influence, and the band's evolving sound, which balanced hard rock with pop sensibilities.

Hysteria (1987)

Hysteria is hailed as Def Leppard's magnum opus, characterized by its meticulous production and numerous hit singles such as "Pour Some Sugar on Me," "Love Bites," and "Animal." Steve praises the album's songwriting and production, despite acknowledging its lack of lyrical depth.

[84:03] Steve Singiser: "Hysteria is set up like a masterclass in... finding a way to make the listener want more."

The episode delves into the challenges faced during its creation, including Rick Allen's tragic car accident and Steve Clark's struggles with alcoholism. Despite these setbacks, Hysteria achieved monumental commercial success, selling over 22 million copies combined with Pyromania.

[90:32] Jeff Blair: "It's legitimately one of the best albums of the late '80s and certainly one of the best hugely commercial ones of that era."

Adrenalize (1992)

Following the loss of drummer Rick Allen's arm and the departure of guitarist Steve Clark, Adrenalize represents a period of resilience and adaptation for the band. The album features hits like "Let's Get Rocked" and "Make Love Like a Man."

[112:50] Scott Bertram: "Adrenalize is an album, a mirrored album split into two... the older songs and the songs that Clark contributed to are much better."

Steve and Jeff discuss the album's divided reception, attributing it to the absence of key figures like Mutt Lang and Steve Clark. While some tracks maintained the Def Leppard essence, others struggled to resonate with fans and critics alike.

Slang (1996) and Euphoria (1999)

Slang attempts a departure from Def Leppard’s established sound, embracing a darker, more introspective tone. However, the album fails to captivate audiences, criticized for lacking strong hooks and cohesion.

[148:47] Jeff Blair: "Euphoria is... trying to get them back to a classic sound, but it's only somewhat successful."

Euphoria seeks to return to form but is hampered by internal band issues and changing musical landscapes, leaning more towards late '90s rock trends that didn't align with Def Leppard's strengths.

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Defining Moments and Challenges

The episode highlights pivotal moments in Def Leppard's career, including:

• Rick Allen’s Accident: Detailing how Rick overcame the loss of his arm, becoming known as the "One Arm Drummer" and innovating his drumming technique to continue performing.

  [117:02] Jeff Blair: "They didn't leave Rick behind; instead, they found ways to support him."

• Steve Clark’s Struggles: Addressing Clark’s battle with alcoholism and his eventual tragic passing, which deeply impacted the band and influenced their subsequent musical direction.

  [113:26] Steve Singiser: "He had gone... his personal best was in the .05 5.6 range. It should kill you."

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Legacy and Enduring Influence

Despite facing significant challenges, Def Leppard remains a prominent figure in rock music. Hysteria continues to be celebrated for its production prowess and enduring hits, while their influence extends to numerous bands that followed.

[166:02] Scott Bertram: "If I'm introducing someone to Def Leppard, these aren't necessarily my five favorite songs. Photograph is my first song because for so many Def Leppard fans in America, that's our intro point."

Steve emphasizes the importance of Pyromania and Hysteria as essential albums for understanding Def Leppard's impact and legacy in the rock genre.

[163:41] Steve Singiser: "If you want to understand Def Leppard at its best, it's those two albums and... the hooks that they put on... it's a lot of fun listening to those two because there's not a hiccup for the songs."

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Notable Quotes

• Jeff Blair on Hysteria:

  "It sounds so pristine, it's so perfect. It sounds not organic, but everything is undeniable—the songs, the hooks."
  [88:44]

• Steve Singiser on Def Leppard's Resilience:

  "They knew how to put together a piece that just meshes for a guy who was brought in off the street to replace the guitarist, to come in and just have his sound mesh quickly."
  [29:20]

• Scott Bertram on Mutt Lang’s Influence:

  "Mutt Lang co-wrote all the songs on Pyromania as well. He was involved."
  [79:35]

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Conclusion

Political Beats Episode 144 provides an in-depth exploration of Def Leppard's music and career through the knowledgeable lens of Steve Singiser. The discussion offers listeners a comprehensive understanding of how Def Leppard navigated the tumultuous landscape of the music industry, overcame personal and professional challenges, and cemented their legacy in rock history. Through shared anecdotes and critical analysis, Bertram, Blair, and Singiser honor Def Leppard's contributions to music while acknowledging the complexities behind their enduring success.

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This episode was produced by National Review. All rights reserved.

Transcript

[Scott Bertram]

Hello again everybody and welcome into another edition of Political Beats, a presentation of National Review. Be sure to find us over at X politicalbeats. You can join the conversation there. You can also find us on Facebook as well. Subscribe to our feed for new episodes through Apple Podcasts or other places. Plus find [e-mail], click on podcast. You'll find all the fine NR audio and we invite you to join us at patreon.com politicalbeats Support Us Help the show stay ad free as it has been entry level access there for support and some voting privileges and posts every now and then mid level for early access to our shows and at a higher audio quality and our upper level best friends early access, higher audio quality, monthly exclusive content, episodes, remastered shows, playlists and more. Find it all and join us at patreon.com politicalbeats now at the part of the program where we thank some of our Patreon supporters for sticking with us and supporting the show, helping it stay ad free and getting those sweet bonus items too. Thank thanks to Timothy Best, Vonda, Mary Elizabeth, also William Gaffey, Mike R, Ken Finley, Adam banker, Chris McCall, Isaac Barkus, Ian R. Brown Hutch, Dan M, Timothy Cobb and Alex Poterac. Thank you for joining us and supporting us [e-mail] Political Beats. My name is Scott Bertram. You can find me ScottBertram on X. My tag team partner standing by as always, Jeff Blair. Jeff, how are you?

[Jeff Blair]

Oh, I'm a little bit tired, Scott, to be honest. It's just been another long day of puttering around doing nothing in particular. And you know what? Hey, let's get the rock out of here.

[Scott Bertram]

Jeff is on X at Esoteric CD and we're joined on this episode by a guest who I will always know by one designation and that is he was the guest for our very first episode that was released after we started the Patreon. So the reason I know that is because pre Patreon episodes get remastered at some point. Everything after Patreon is already there. It's already on the site. So Steve Singiser is with us again. First time Living Color and this time a different band. Contributing a formerly contributing editor at Daily Ko's Elections, now a contributor over at the Down Ballot and you can find him on xephensingiser. Steve, thanks so much for coming back.

[Steve Singiser]

Yeah, I was gonna say before you said it, Scott. Now for something completely different.

[Scott Bertram]

Steve, tell us a little bit as we get started here about you. Where people can find writing during election time and what people can find on X as well.

[Steve Singiser]

Oh, thank you so much. So, Yes, I was 15 years at Daily Co's elections and you could probably still find some of my remnants over there. In terms of election writing, about a year ago, David near, who was the man who ran Daily Co's elections, I remember. Yeah, yeah. Decide to go out on his own and created the down ballot. You can find me there on election nights, I'm usually the one kind of anchoring the coverage. And besides that, as I said to Scott in an email earlier today, I'm not semi retired, but I am fully immersed in both. I do teach government, so I still have that political connection. And also I am also learning the intricacies of the offensive line for next football season. So that's enough to keep me more than busy, trust me.

[Scott Bertram]

If you master that, be sure to call the Bears and tell them the secrets. If you master the art of the offensive line, we need help.

[Steve Singiser]

Yeah, well, we'll see. I mean, I'm dealing with 16 year old kids over here, so it's a little, it's a little different.

[Jeff Blair]

I mean, they may be better disciplined than the Bears. That's all I'm saying.

[Steve Singiser]

I'd like to argue with you and this is probably a terrible time to say I'm a Chiefs fan because then I feel completely spoiled.

[Jeff Blair]

But stop winning Super Bowls we did I. Well, yeah, but you know, stop attending them. How's that?

[Scott Bertram]

Everybody needs a year off every now and then.

[Steve Singiser]

Fair, fair, fair.

[Scott Bertram]

All right, Steve is back with us. As we said, Living Color was his first show. Go back in the archive at Patreon, find that one or wherever you get your audio. He's back this time to talk about a couple of guys who weren't shy about wearing that Union Jack in videos, Britain's hard rock slash heavy metal slash sweet pop band. There's a lot of variables that go into the equation that made this such a massive, massively successful band. And today we talk about Def Leppard. And if you know how to spell Def Leppard without looking, then you're a real fan. I think that's the way it goes. Steve, we or you were a kid.

[Jeff Blair]

In the 90s, Steve, we turn the.

[Scott Bertram]

Tables back to you. Tell us why you love Def Leppard, how you got into them, and why anyone else should care about this music we're about to talk about here today.

[Steve Singiser]

Well, I think almost by default, anybody of a certain age, and I'm in that certain age, who came of age, came in the early 80s and was an MTV kid. It's almost unavoidable that you became a Def Leppard fan. So to try to set the mental scene here, here I am, I'm all 10 years old. This was the one luxury we had in the Sennheiser household. We didn't have a ton of money, but my dad was a huge sports fan. His sons were big sports fans. So we got cable TV early because of ESPN and because I'm a huge music guy. I mean, I love me my espn, but I was an MTV guy. And so here it is, it's 1983. I'm all of 10 and I've been inculcated to Olivia Newton John and Michael Jackson and whatnot. And then here come these. And I didn't know it at the time, these five guys that were not maybe a decade older than I was in Union Jack shirts, as Scott put it so well. And a more than fair amount of spandex and yes. But yeah, more than fair and photograph hits now the video was amazing, but even if you had no visual of it whatsoever, the song just hit like a. A t. Like a tank going right over the top of you. And then you get rock of ages, you get fooling and. And you're hooked. And it's just. Last time I was on about Living Color, it was this band that has a serious message that plays, you know, great music. There's no serious message here. I mean it's. It's just music for the. The hedonistic fun of it. And actually, as we'll talk about, I'm sure as we go along, where they're probably at their weakest is when they try to get serious and when the walls came tumbling down. He says while coughing. But it's just. And the other thing is I have a soft spot for bands. And actually Living Color applies here too. They had almost no lineup changes. The loyalty these guys had to each other, even to the point, and I'm sure we'll get to it, that they have a member who's in deep, deep trouble. And they're like, dude, go get yourself right? We'll wait for you. You got to admire a band that clearly has that investment in each other. So besides the fact that the tunes are just amazing and it's just a lot of fun to listen to in a car playing loud, driving down the street. It's a band that seems to one like each other and they sure as heck like writing and making music together. And it's a good thing because they're really Good at it guy.

[Jeff Blair]

Why don't you go second, since, you know, I'm the one who knows the least about them.

[Scott Bertram]

Well, my story and Steve's story are fairly similar, right? We're both, we're all three of us MTV kids. Yet somehow, as Jeff will attest, some few things passed him by. But the same way, man. First, memories of MTV seeing Def Leppard and the Union Jack shorts of Rick Allen at the drum kit. And you know that knife stabbing into the. Into the picture, the photograph, the video from Pyromania. Yeah, I remember that. And then Hysteria hits and Hysteria, that's that. That just massive worldwide success. And Hysteria was the very first cassette I ever bought on my.

[Steve Singiser]

Yes, sir.

[Scott Bertram]

I had purchased maybe, maybe a year before, maybe not even. This was on, I think our Ask us anything episode at the end of the year. My first album, I bought an album about then and now, the Best of the Monkeys with my own money and own that one. But the first cassette I ever bought was Hysteria by Def Leppard. And I recall at that point, of course, seven years old, probably, you know, money's precious and so I'm not gonna buy an album that I only knew one song on. I'm not gonna buy an album that I only knew two songs on. You know, how about an album on which every single song on the first side is a bona fide smash hit, legendary, you know, song. Okay, safe investment, I guess I'll buy that one. That's Hysteria, which was everywhere and unavoidable. And yes, I was the kid who was definitely turned around on the album by First Tier and Pour Some Sugar On Me.

[Guest Speaker]

Take the Fire, Shake It Out, Break the Father, Break it out.

[Scott Bertram]

The song that saved the album and turned it into that worldwide smash. I was one of those kids that bought into it and really loved that song. And then that album and then the wait, the interminable wait five more years until the next Def Leppard album. And Adrenalize. And I was in. I probably wasn't in line. I was only 12, but I was out early to get Adrenalize and listen to that non stop. I mentioned this in our emails back and forth. As great as Hysteria is and clearly spoiler, the best album, I might have internalized more of Adrenalized because I listened to it over and over and over.

[Jeff Blair]

Again after Soundtrack of the Childhood.

[Steve Singiser]

Yes.

[Scott Bertram]

Oh my goodness. And it's clearly not as good, not near as good in my mind as Hysteria, but man, I know every nook and cranny of that album. I listen to it constantly. And, you know, they kept putting out records. We'll talk about them, but in many ways, the story ends there for a couple of particular reasons we'll get to later. But, man, what they crammed, you know, those three albums took. Took place across nine years, essentially, which for most bands would be career suicide. And yet for Def Leppard was the way their career was launched and sustained. These guys are fun. Like Steve mentioned, I do admire the fact that it's essentially the same group of guys for an extremely long period of time. Everybody's had some bad times and been through it and come out the other end. They're still together, they're still touring. They know the fans are paying to hear the hits and not the ones from the last album released in 2008 or whenever it was. They wanted to be the biggest band on the planet for a small time in 1988, they probably were. And they're still pretty damn big today and can fill out arenas no matter where they go. I am a. I am a fan. I am a fan of Def Leppard.

[Guest Speaker]

Welcome to my show. Just as you like me, we got the whole damn night together. You're holding down on me while I'm on fire. If you can't stand up in who you are.

[Jeff Blair]

This has actually been a really a fun episode for me, as. As these. These kinds of episodes tend to be. What do I mean by that? Well, I'm going to just start right now, but by setting the stakes out. I never even heard the song photographed before he booked this show. I still to this day have never seen the video. These big memories that both Scott and Steve talk about, which is interesting because it's a slightly different generational thing about, you know, seven years older than us, Something like that. You know, you guys both had that MPV experience, but I wasn't quite the MTV kitty that you guys were because we actually were a VH1 family. I had to go to other people's house to watch mtv because it was like, the one concession that my mom had, I think, to, like, this is like, well, MTV's slop. We're not going to pay for that. So we didn't. We paid for VH1 instead. And by the way, that worked out pretty well for me. I have to say. I didn't know much about Def Leppard except for the radio hits. And I'm not gonna. This is gonna be one of those episodes where it's like, Jeff is. Is a babe in the woods. He is new to this, as if he just popped into this life 10 minutes ago. More like two to three weeks ago, actually. And yet, because I was alive in the 80s and 90s, I. I'm not gonna lie, I did know some of these songs. And it's actually funny. This is always funny for me with a band that was just sort of there in your popular memory to actually go back through the discography, but you didn't know anything about them. So you go back through the discography.

[Steve Singiser]

Oh, wait, I know that one.

[Jeff Blair]

That's what it's called.

[Steve Singiser]

Oh, wait, I know that one.

[Jeff Blair]

That's what it's called. This happened to me about four or five times throughout the Def Leppard, you know, discographical journey as over the last couple of weeks. And there were always these songs that I just remember hearing on the radio, Constant and I. Even as they played for the first time, I knew every word of them. It was hilarious. Like how I knew about fooling a song that had never meant a thing to me. If you just tell me the title of it. I actually thought that that was a song called Dr. Feelgood by Motley Crue. I think I've been confused my entire life about these metal things.

[Guest Speaker]

I just gotta go. If you really care and you really.

[Jeff Blair]

Because, yes, in the end, at the end of the day, Def Leppard's kind of music was not the stuff that ended up grabbing me. My brother bought. Yeah, I think he bought all three of those big albums. Pyromania, Hysteria, and then Adrenalize. And Adrenalize, just like it was for Scott, was like everywhere for me. We'll talk about the goofy music video for let's Get Rocked and all that stuff. That was my 12 year old, you know, Experience was seeing that and hearing that music everywhere. But even then, you know, back then, when I don't think I had any taste and I was more into Phil Collins, but seriously, in terms of.

[Scott Bertram]

Wait, wait, did you say Phil? Phil Collins, yeah. He's a great guitarist in this band. I'm glad you enjoy. Oh, no. Oh, Collins.

[Jeff Blair]

Sorry, that's pronounced Colleen. Actually, I don't even know if that's the pronunciation. But yeah, no, Phil Collins, that was the kind of pop stuff I was listening to at that age. You know, my brother. My older brother was listening to this. My older brother was the one who bought the Pearl Jam and Nirvana album Sound Garden and stuff like that. I was still, you know, a little, you know, a weak sister when it came to rock music. I didn't like anything that got too loud or nasty back then. So, you know, Def Leppard, to me, was just sort of a corporate symbol for a long time. They were like a mega band. They were a band who. Who, you know, went on tour, promoted by Budweiser. They were corporate rock. They were. You know, to me, I folded all of these groups into a bag that they didn't actually belong in. And so what's actually fun to discover about going through the Def Leppard discography is that, no, there are no profound insights, philosophically that you're going to find. We'll talk about this. Ste already mentioned it. This is not a band that you listen to for, like, the lyrical depth of their propositions.

[Scott Bertram]

It might be one of the episodes in which we reference lyrics the least.

[Jeff Blair]

But it's also one of these bands that I'm realizing now created that sound. These guys, and of course, Mut Lang in particular, these guys created the hard rock sound of the 80s. And they started doing it really early in that decade. And, you know, you. You also. Boston is a band that comes to mind a lot when I'm thinking about what the sound that Def Leppard created was.

[Steve Singiser]

But.

[Scott Bertram]

But you know why?

[Jeff Blair]

Why?

[Scott Bertram]

Because they use the Rockman amp on all of Hysteria. All of Hysteria is recorded with the Rockman amp. The guitars. Yes.

[Jeff Blair]

Well, there you go then. No wonder. I think about this is sort of a clinical perfection to their later work that also reminds me of Boston. But the thing is, Def Leppard evolved into that sound, which means they actually left behind a lot of really interesting albums. And when they finally made their version of Boston's debut album, which is Hysteria, well, it's just as undeniable as Boston's debut album. This is the biggest surprise of all.

[Scott Bertram]

It's.

[Jeff Blair]

For the first time in my life, sitting down and listening front to back to that record and finding out that I really enjoy it.

[Guest Speaker]

What if I lay down what my dream.

[Jeff Blair]

Despite the fact that it cuts against all of my sort of aesthetic priors? That's why this is going to be a really fun one to do. Because it's just, you know. You know, sometimes I throw Scott pitches that are way outside his wheelhouse musically. And I know that he's like, well, I'm gonna find out what I like about this. Do the best I can with some difficult material, like.

[Scott Bertram]

Like the very next one we're likely to do, probably right.

[Jeff Blair]

That was what I thought Def Leppard was gonna be for me, and it isn't. This is Actually really fun, really enjoyable stuff. And hey, who doesn't want to just be mindless and get rocked every now and then?

[Guest Speaker]

I'm your average, ordinary, everyday kid, happy to do nothing. In fact, that's what I did. I got a million ways to make my day but daddy don't agree Cuz when I try to get away since he got plans for me get your first run out of day Stop bugging me no way. Come on, get real. I'm sorry, dad. Gotta disappear. Let's get the rock outta here.

[Scott Bertram]

And I knew it would be because Def Leppard is so indebted. And they did an entire album about, you know, paying tribute to the. The glam rock movement of the early 70s, of which of course, David Bowie, Mc Ronson and others. And I know you like those people, so it had to be a good match. There's no reason you shouldn't.

[Jeff Blair]

They were, they were looking at group. I think they were paying much more attention to groups like Slade. Sweet. Yeah, like the 70s hard rock stuff. I want you to do the introduction to the ban. But then I'll talk about that sort of genre of music that people don't even realize exists, which is the sort of British metal of the 70s. There are a few bands, everyone knows Black Sabbath, obviously, but there's like a whole group that were spawned by them and that most people have forgotten nowadays. That's the milieu that Def Leppard emerged out of. But maybe you can tell us a bit more.

[Scott Bertram]

I will set the stage here as we run through the discography of Def Leppard and Steve mentioned earlier, these guys are probably a little bit younger than you might think and certainly were when they started off. That's why they can still play those big venues these days. But the story of Def Leppard begins actually with Rick Savage, the bassist from the band who was in a group in 1976 called Atomic Mass. And playing in that band, Rick Willis, the original, one of the original guitarists for Def Leppard, ends up joining him in this band called atomic mass in 76. And the next year, Joe Elliot, this 18 year old kid, attempts to join Atomic Mass as a guitarist. And they say, man, I don't think you got the chops for that. But you know what, we heard you sing and that, that might, that might fit for you. So Eliot jumps on board as the singer in this band. And a few months later, guy named Steve Clark joins another guitarist in January of 1978. And now they've got something cooking and they are searching for the name Joe Elliott is the one who thinks of this name. Def Leppard, misspellings and all. D E F L E P P A R D Def Leppard. And these are four guys from the rundown steel mills of Sheffield, England. And so they are in a hurry to get out of there and find success. And it's one of those stories which happens often in music that they just sort of willed themselves into existence. They had barely played together live when they began plotting this episode.

[Jeff Blair]

And no way, Scott, are we going to move on from the naming of Def Leppard without like even taking notice of Led Zeppelin, which is clearly a play on which is, you know, it's almost like you're. They're trying to announce themselves to their potential audience. This is 1978. What's Led Zeppelin doing at that point? Nothing. Since 1976, they've been dormant since presence in through the outdoor isn't going to be what the guitar lords are looking for anyway. Def Leppard pretty cannily staked out its territory just for changing the spelling of its name.

[Scott Bertram]

Yes, at a glance it looks similar, right in the way, like, you could see it, you could see it. And so, yeah, they had barely played live together when they sort of willed themselves into existence by putting together this, this ep. They weren't waiting for a record company to come to a show and find them. They borrowed about, borrowed some money from Joe Elliot's dad and went and created and printed this LP, or EP, I should say the Def Leppard EP, which was recorded late in 78, released in January 79. Joined by a guy named Frank Noon, a session drummer that didn't have a permanent drummer in the band yet. And you know what? It did just fine. Sold out a thousand copies pretty quickly. They had to reprint it. Three songs on Here, get your Rocks Off, Ride into the sun and the overTure, and all three will pop up later on in various stages of re recordings and various albums through their career. But those are the three songs that make up this Def Leppard ep. And I love the story and I'll hand it off to Steve here to maybe say a few words about the ep, but the story is that they one of them, and I can't remember which one, ended up crashing the stage at a show and literally handing the EP to John Peele, the BBC dj. And Peele liked it, Peele played it and get your rocks off was the song that he played and that became a minor hit in the UK for Def Leppard off this ep. But it was, it was all about that desperation and that really intense desire to both escape their situation and be a big time band. Steve, what about this ep?

[Guest Speaker]

Well, we were getting ready just the other night when a knock on the drifted little girl who had never ever seen before in a red sanded dress. When she asked what we want to do, what she said.

[Steve Singiser]

Well, you know, the thing that drives me about this or just gets me about this, I guess I should say, is I'm currently, you know, peek behind the curtain. I'm sitting in the office behind my classroom. So I'm looking at them where there's normally about 40 kids, all age 17 to 18. And these guys were doing this during that time. It's just the word that came to my mind immediately was precocious. Right. It's not just to create. Hey, we're gonna make a band. A lot of high school kids do that. But to. We're going to produce an ep. We're going to produce an EP and we're going to get the biggest DJ in the country to play it. I mean, you talk about just moxie beyond all other things. If you couldn't see from just that part of their biography that they were going to be something huge. I mean, talk about, you know, speaking it into existence. My gosh. And as it happens, Rocks Off's a fantastic song we're going to talk about a little later because it appears again as Scott alluded to in on through the Night. But my gosh, when you think about the fact that when they released this EP, the oldest member of the band was just turned 19, drummer 16 or something like that.

[Jeff Blair]

Rick Allen.

[Steve Singiser]

Well, Rick Allen's not even in. Well, he comes to the band shortly.

[Jeff Blair]

There in the next album.

[Steve Singiser]

But like, listen, he's 15 when he joins the band.

[Jeff Blair]

Something like that. Okay, even better.

[Steve Singiser]

Yes.

[Jeff Blair]

I mean, it's just, I have to say, the, the way they willed themselves into existence, you guys already pointed out, it's impressive. And you know, some people will, you know, knock bands for, quote, being careerists, but man, if you grew up in Sheffield. I only know Sheffield, England actually, ironically enough, from the band Pulp, who also hail from Sheffield and just devoted several songs to how miserable a place it is and how eager they were to get the hell out of there. Because, yeah, this post industrial wasteland is like, you know, gray and grimy and blighted. Why the heck wouldn't you be a careerist yourself if you, if your only other choice was going back to work in a dying town? Boy, you Would get together with your friends and work your butts off.

[Guest Speaker]

I got the throttle open. She won't take no more. Cause I'm riding, I'm riding into the sun. We're shooting down the highway. Got my baby behind. She holds onto my hips and drives me out of my mind. Cause we're riding, we're riding into the sun.

[Jeff Blair]

And they did that, the first ep. To me, I guess I'll agree that it's not as interesting for the simple reason that all three of these songs were re recorded later. And they're all better. And in fact, the best song on the EP is, in my opinion, the best song on their debut album, which is the Def Leppard album that I guess people would say doesn't quite sound like Def Leppard. It's the only one that doesn't quite have the classic sound because it's the one that they did before they met Mutt Lang. And that's on through the Night. That is the debut 1980 album, on through the Night. And you talk about careerism, apparently. I'm just, you know, doing my research for the show. I was reading that they're the band's British fans, you know, immediately started accusing them of selling out and being careerist.

[Scott Bertram]

Why?

[Jeff Blair]

Because it was clear they were gunning for an American audience. But when it would show, because Def Leppard would eventually end up far more popular in America than in Britain. But think about the size of the audience here. Okay? You could be number one in America or you could be number one in Britain. One of them has, I don't know, 15 times bigger a market than the other one. So. So it's probably not a surprise that Def Leppard said to themselves, yeah, we're gonna write a song called hello, America, which is like, I think the second song. It's a good song, but it's very clearly a play for American radio audiences and such. It almost. In fact, it reminds me this is the closest they ever sound to Cheap Trick, who themselves did that same, you know, same play a couple of times on their albums. Songs like hello and Alfredersen and whatnot. This is a fascinating album to me because it's obviously not what their classic sound would be. And, yeah, I already. I already heard Steve talk about one of the songs, the serious song, which is just garbage. But I like it a lot. I like it a lot. And I think it ends in particular pretty strong. What do you guys think of on through the Night?

[Steve Singiser]

Well, I think that, again, I hate to sound like broke record the fact that this is a very mature effort for a band that nobody except. I don't think any of them were in their 20s yet. And you can.

[Jeff Blair]

Yeah, it doesn't sound like Mutt Lang, but it doesn't sound amateurish either, in any way. No, not at all.

[Steve Singiser]

And I think that a lot of big Def Leppard fans, this is their favorite album because it's more raw. There's something about metal fans, bands, and especially, again, older ones, that when something gets produced, really down to the, you know, down to the. Down the. You know, stripped down to the studs.

[Jeff Blair]

And then produce sanded down to like a razor good gleam, you know, absolute.

[Steve Singiser]

It drives them crazy. So when they get to the Mutt Lang era, which is where they sold, you know, 25 million albums, they're like, ah, not as good as on through the Night. And it is so sonically different. Jeff's right, Right. The. The main thing that jumped out to me is the first thing I thought of because it'd been a long time since I'd listened to that album. Was. Doesn't sound like Joe Elliott. It doesn't sound like his.

[Scott Bertram]

Right? Yes, yes.

[Steve Singiser]

And it kind of jumps off of you right away. But the tunes are there. It's the. I would argue it's their most uneven album and that the good stuff's really good and the bad stuff is really, really bad. When the Walls Came Tumbling down, which I alluded to earlier, I will say this about Def Leppard, give him credit for trying. They kept trying to make a serious song about the state of the world. They did it, like four times. They finally.

[Jeff Blair]

The Reagan one on Hysteria is great, man. Can't wait till we get to that.

[Steve Singiser]

I will say I like that song, but that allusion to it at the end is awful. But it's a great song other than that. But they kept trying, darn it. Every album. They did one, they did that. They did Die Hard, the Hunter on Pyromania, they kept after it, man, but it's. It's bad. And Satellite's not very good, but, man, then you hear Rock Brigade, which it opens with, which is a great, quick opener. That's one thing they do on. On through the Night that they don't do again, which is the songs are all short and they're punchy. I think the longest song was right at four minutes, not counting the Walls Crumbling down, because it had a spoken word opening, which was the only cool part of the song, by the way. But all the rest of the songs are Two and a half minutes. Three. Three and a half minutes. And it gives it a punch that as much as I love the later albums, and, my God, I love the later albums, there's something this one doesn't. Yeah, no, exactly. Exactly.

[Guest Speaker]

You.

[Steve Singiser]

But, yeah, I think it is funny. Jeff hits it on the head. Hello America. Even though it wound up being the highest charting UK song they had on this album. Album is such an obvious. Please American radio stations play our song.

[Scott Bertram]

It's like 30. There's like 32 allusions to California when, you know, none of those guys have ever sniffed California. Right.

[Steve Singiser]

I think there's probably.

[Jeff Blair]

I haven't even get into France. People are from Sheffield.

[Steve Singiser]

They hadn't been to Dover yet, but they. California. It's funny too, because it's just so, you know, please like me over the top. That it actually becomes kind of endearing. And it's a fun. It's a fun song. My favorite, personally, is Rocks off, which had, of course, had been workshopped on the first EP Wasted, which is the first single, and you could argue it's the best song on the album. It's one of the only ones, by the way. Wasted's one of the only ones they kept in their live rotation, pretty much. Wasted and Rock Brigade are the only two they ever endured into the Hysteria era and still performed live. So obviously they like that one.

[Scott Bertram]

This is pre Mutt Lang, as Jeff referenced. And yet. And yet, I still think the imprint of the producer is on on through the Night. It's produced by Tom Allen. And probably Tom Allen's biggest claim to fame is being Judas Priest's producer for essentially all of their essential works through the early and mid-80s.

[Jeff Blair]

I know nothing about Judas Priest, so I wouldn't have gotten this if there's one. Yeah.

[Scott Bertram]

If there's one band that I kind of hear peeking through most on this album, it's probably Judas Priest in that late seventies British metal movement. And yes, there's a little. Like Tin Lizzy. Yes. Certainly you'd say maybe a little Queen. Those guys are huge Queen fans in the band.

[Jeff Blair]

Some Blue Oyster Colt in there, too. I don't know how familiar you are with them. Yeah.

[Scott Bertram]

And I heard. Oh, there's a. I don't think they're British, but Head East. Never been any reason. It don't matter on here. Sounds a lot to me like that Head east track, which is from just before this. This era. But I can kind of hear Tom Allen's fingerprint on. On through the Night. And Steve's totally right too, is that Joe Elliott doesn't sound like Joe Elliott. And I was going to make this point, I think, on the next. I don't know where this note is. I'll say it now, though. I think what's clear about on through the Night is that they don't understand quite yet what the strength of the band is, because it's clearly Joe Elliott and his voice and the way they would soon stack those vocals with Mutt Lang on forthcoming albums, he's buried a bit in the mix. His timbre's a little lower than it is on future albums and those instruments are out in front and these guys aren't slouches. But. But look, Rick Allen's not the best drummer in the world. Rick Savage isn't the best bassist in the world. Steve Clark, by his own admission, is a sloppy player. Joe Elliot's the money ticket here and he's not front and center on. On through the Night. They would fix that pretty quickly. There is good stuff here, there is bad stuff here. As Steve mentioned previously, I think Rock Brigade is. I mean, it's the first song and I think it's the best song. It's the one that holds up up the best over the years. And as Steve mentioned, when they kept in their repertoire for some years to come. Hello America is a great track. This is what Sorrow Is A Woman, which is the third track.

[Jeff Blair]

It's Too Overwhelming alone makes me laugh.

[Scott Bertram]

They can't pull that off yet. If they ever would be able to pull something like that off. This is pleasant. It's good, it's fine. It's got its Sheffield working class rock, but again, they haven't discovered. They don't know on on through the what would make them the biggest band in the world. But that would be coming very soon.

[Jeff Blair]

So it's interesting. I don't really have much to add to what you guys have said, but neither of you have mentioned my favorite song on the record. And of course I'm the noob. I mean, I don't really know much about the band and I. I guess for all I know, the fans would argue, I think Overture, which of course is the last song on the record. It was. This one was on the ep. The point that you made, Scott, about how since they aren't forefronting Joe Elliott's voice, they don't really know that that's their strength yet. These songs are going to have to just stand and fall on their compositional strengths, as you said. Like, you know, the. The instrumentalists aren't, you know, Incredibly hot stuff, that one, actually. Probably because of its pragginess. And of course, I confess my. My love for Prague Rocky kind of stuff. I like that one. I like. It's interesting, it develops, it goes into all sorts of fun places. It's a good way to end the album.

[Guest Speaker]

So Dark in the sky falling. You just remind us.

[Jeff Blair]

But, yeah, I think I agree with all you that it's probably not a patch on the next record, which I know Steve already, I'm willing to say, has an incorrect opinion about because he previewed it for us when we were talking about this via email. I think 1981's high and dry, this is the fastest, by the way, that Def Leppard will ever release an album. Their second album came out a year after their first album, which to me not knowing anything else, suggests rather clearly that they had had these songs ready to go and they just hadn't maybe finished their arrange. These guys were never otherwise known for writing that fast. But what really happens on High and Dry is they meet Robert Mutt Lang, or as I like to think of him, Mr. Shania Twain, the producer, the legendary producer of ACDC up until that point. And if you're a hard rock band from Britain and you're looking for a sort of sonic legitimacy, then this is like pulling the Willy Wonka golden ticket out of a chocolate bar. Because Mutt Lang is a very busy and highly in demand person, he happened to find them interesting. I think they opened for AC DC on a tour during their debut album and he said, you guys. You guys got something going on. I think I can actually improve it and improve it. He did. I have to say that this one is just immediately everything kind of snaps into focus here. I think it's a really good album. It will not be on my top two at the end of today, which is probably, you know, sort of a surprising tribute to how unexpectedly good this band turned out to be. But I. I really like High and Dry a lot and I'm sorry, Steve, I think the second half of it's pretty great too.

[Guest Speaker]

Mirror mirages Watching with your eyes glare Just a fortune with something that I want to ask Mirror, mirror Got my.

[Steve Singiser]

I feel challenged here Calling you out yeah. Yeah, you are, just a little bit. It's just. For me, part of it is because I really enjoyed the first half. What was okay for the Youngins listening to the show back in the day, my children Vinyl had. Yeah, you had what were known as sides albums, you know, side one and side two, side one, which goes all the way to the one of two instrumentals they ever did. Switch 625.

[Jeff Blair]

Ooh, that's a highlight.

[Steve Singiser]

Yeah, I like it a lot. Is really, really, really good. Good. And then you get to the second half. You Got Me Running, which is the first song on the second side is. Is pretty good. On through the Night, which is odd that it's on this album. And they called their song on through the Night, but we'll. We'll give them some artistic license. There is. Okay, but the other three for me. And again, music is so individual. The other three songs, Lady Strange, Mirror Mirror and no no no, are bad. And to me, no, no, no is the most aptly named song in their discography. Because I'm listening to it, and that's what I'm thinking. No, do not end the album with this. Do not actually put this on the album. But alas, they did. But the first half of it's so good. And in fact, it has the song that I think most people understand to be the early Def Leppard sound, because it's the first song that got to MTV, which is bringing on the heartbreak, 1981, MTV, just in its infancy. It's one of the first metal songs they put on there because, as anybody knows, it's a metal song, but it has very much rock sensibilities to it. It's not an intimidating metal song, if that makes sense. And so a lot of people, that's the first time they hear Def Leppard. And for a lot of people, it's a later song to them because what the record company does when Pyromania goes thermonuclear is they re release High and Dry, they remaster it, they re release it, and they release Bring it on the heartbreak in 1984 as a single, three years after it was recorded. And it does. Okay. I think it gets it in the top 60, I think. But it's a great song. And it's the one that sounds like, okay, this is for people who are Def Leppard fans who know Hysteria, who know Pyromania. Oh, this is it. This is what you're talking about.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm sorry, but it's true. You're bringing on the heartache Taking all the best can't you see? You got the best of me? Whoa. Can't you say you're bringing on the heart? Pray Bringing on the heart can't you see? Oh.

[Steve Singiser]

They also have one other distinction on this album on the first side, which is High and Dry, also known as Another Saturday Night is just a nice classic filthy rock tune. But speaking of filthy, yes, it was attacked by the pmrc. The Parents Music Music Resource Council are. Media Resource Council. I can't remember exactly, but as one of the filthy 15, because the whole song is about Joe Elliott getting just completely wasted and Tipper Gore did not appreciate the sentiments of that song, so it got named. So early notoriety for the band.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm high Saturday night I am flying.

[Scott Bertram]

Ow.

[Guest Speaker]

I feel fair I feel me I'm up and down in between I'm the bottle I'm on the line I'm up and feeling fine oh, I got a.

[Steve Singiser]

Motor and then switch 625, which is at the end, is still in their live rotation, even though it's a Steve Clark contribution. Of course, as we'll talk about later, he does not stay with the band, sadly, for tragic reasons. It's not very long. It's about three minutes, but, man, it's punch. It is a punch to the face. It's in the best possible way. What a great instrumental. And it still gets cheered when they play it. They use it now, really, honestly, as a break for Joeli to go rest his voice, but it still gets cheered at concerts that I've been to in recent years.

[Jeff Blair]

I will say this, switch 625 is, in my opinion, the best song on the album, which I think is interesting, because, you know, as Scott was talking about, Joe Elliott is like the feature of Def Leppard. But listen, the band was never bad. That's why I liked, you know, I liked Overture on the first album. But now that you have Mutt Lang producing them and dissing, disciplining them, cutting every little bit of fat away, you get a pile driver of an instru. That thing, to me is almost. It's a frog metal instrumental and it's really quick and it's very, you know, like melodic and concise. I would also argue, though, you said you didn't like Mirror, Mirror, Look Into My Eyes. I like that song. I But I, I, I, I like that. I like the creativity. You'll notice that for me, a lot of these, the ones that I already knew from the radio, the cliche radio hits, I guess perhaps I'm less interested in them because those are the trademark sounds, so I'm always looking at the places where they deviate. And another one of those is on through the Night, the title track from the debut album, which is now on High and Dry. It's a better song than anything on the debut, so I Don't know if they only wrote it later on or if they hadn't finished it or whatnot. I think, you know, in terms of songs with lyrics, forget about, you know, High and Dry or forget about Bringing on the Heartbreak. Those are okay. All through the Night is the best song sung song on this.

[Guest Speaker]

When it's done, your final one, Count the on and on. Come on down, you're flying high. You never win if you never try. Stop the hate, carry the low Come on, let the show on the road.

[Jeff Blair]

Switch 625 is the other one. I agree with you though, about. No, no, no. That thing is an ear, a blight upon my ears. And I also think they were tempting the devil by, you know, trying to steal a song title away from Deep Purple, who themselves did the song. No, no, no, same title exactly. No punctuation. On fireball back in 1971. One that's a hard rock classic. This one is just like. I would have appreciated a stylus wide scratch instead.

[Scott Bertram]

You guys covered a ton on this record. I don't have much to say, gotta I. I'm gonna stop for a moment or at least pause and talk a bit about Mutt Lang. So Mutt laying, Jeff sort of laid out some of the basics. You know, producer, big time producer Shania Twain, producer Brian Adams, producer for Waking up the Neighbors and that massive album up until this point. He produced Heat Treatment for Graham Parker. He produced a couple of records for Clover, which is why he ends up on Huey Lewis's second album, Picture this and handing him off do youo Believe in Love, which would be Huey Lewis's first hit single. And then, yeah, right around 1980, he begins to. He does highway to Hell from ACDC and then back in Black.

[Jeff Blair]

Yeah, and then Back in black and.

[Scott Bertram]

Foreigners four, which was. Was inescapable in 1981 and then high and dry in 81 as well. And for those about to rock from AC DC this year too. So this is the year that sort.

[Jeff Blair]

Of also produced XTC in their. Their only well produced radio single ever. Because it's Mutt Lang doing it called this Is Bob.

[Scott Bertram]

But you have to understand what you. What you have to understand about Mutt Lang is he essentially becomes another member of the band. And, and, and, and not just for. For Def Leppard, certainly, but for anyone else. He produces like he just becomes part of the fabric of what is going on in the studio. And everything is done to his specifications. He knows the exact sound he's looking for. Certainly influenced by Roy Thomas Baker and the way that he stacked those Queen vocals throughout the 1970s. But his instructions to Def Leppard almost from day one, where if you want to be the biggest band on the planet, you've got to sound big and you got to write songs that sound good in stadiums. You can't have little nuances and you can't have little things. You got to have one word shouted choruses. Those things work in stadium. So all of this work now, beginning on High and Dry, sort of pointing Def Leppard to their eventual high point on Hysteria. And you can hear some of that happening here. I also hear in places some of that AC DC influence. Elliot, vocally, at times, could have a little Brian Johnson in him. There's a few places where he kind of splits Bon Scott and Brian Johnson. He gives that Brian Johnson sort of squeal that he'll occasionally give off. You'll hear that from Joel Elliott in Place to Place. And some of the production stuff here, obviously is echoing things that are happening on. Like for those about to Rock, which came out in the same year. And so you hear a few of those things here and there. I'm generally a fan of high and dry. Yeah, there are a couple of missteps in the second half, which Steve outlined very well. But I think you Got me Running is their first pop turn. Like you got me Running that chorus. The verses are eh. But as soon as that chorus flips on, they are onto something. It's their first big kind of pop move in the middle of a rock metal type song. I think that is a fantastic chorus in a really good song.

[Guest Speaker]

Oh, you better hide yeah, I'm out on the street But I'm back on my feet I'm not a loser so get a wise Stop your.

[Scott Bertram]

And then bring on the heartbreak. You guys laid out very well. That is, I think, something essential they do here that they would do later is use the music to set the mood. Like the mood here is set by the production and the way they play, bringing on the heartbreak. And of course, you also begin to hear some of those tricks, we'd call them, that. That Mutt Lang uses to hook that listener. The way that song slows to a crawl before Elliot shouts no. And then you get the, you know, the giant Steve Clark solo after that. And that's a good Rick Allen song too, who doesn't always get a chance to shine on some of these tracks because he's not actually playing on some of these tracks in the next couple of albums. That's a great song. No one mentioned Let It Rock. And so I'll just close there. Let It Rock, the first song on the record. The difference between the first album, the second album is evident right there. Elliott's vocals are more defined. Elliott's vocals are more up front. Those backing vocals. The Mutt Lang stash is there. And that simple, simple court. Let it rock, let it roll, let it go. That sound good in the stadium, probably. And they would get there soon enough.

[Guest Speaker]

Wild body, it's my way. You're not leaving. Come out so get down. I'm down these and letting it now you're an. Please let it rise. Let it go. Let it, let it go. Let it go. You got up. Let it rise. Come on. Let it go. Just let it go. Let it go.

[Jeff Blair]

Well, I mean, I think that brings us to the beginning of what everybody would agree are Def Leppard's classic years. It was only a year and a half after High and Dry, in fact, that they released their next album. Again, they're keeping up what seems like a somewhat normal work pace at this point. That. That's swiftly about to go out the window. But here's the thing. This is a classic for you, Scott. This is a classic for you, Steve. I never knew a thing about this album until, you know, two weeks ago. So let me tell you what I first thought when I picked up Def Leppard's Iromania from the beginning of 1983, January 1983, you know, I thought. I thought, holy, that's 911 on the car cover.

[Steve Singiser]

Wow.

[Jeff Blair]

That's what it is. And I thought I was going crazy. That's the twin towers on fire burning with a target in front of it. And then I googled it, and guess what? This has been brought up to them several times as well. And they have actually given interviews. Joe Elliott has given interviews, like, yeah, we're a little bit creeped out about that ourselves. We didn't intend that, obviously. But here's the thing. This is what I mean when I say I come fresh to an alb that is probably incredibly famous to every other person listening to the show. I joked about this. You know, I even mentioned it right at the start of the show. But I was telling the guys before we went on, like, photograph the album that broke them big, or the song that broke them big on mtv. And for you guys, I heard it for the first time, you know, two weeks ago. I've never heard any of his music except for the one song that I didn't even know was a Def Leppard song. There's one track here, fool, and that I love. I had no idea that was a Def Leppard track. But this is a fantastic record. Is it their part of their top two? Well, I have a pretty quirky top two that I've settled on, so maybe not quite, but this is the beginning of like, you know, the true Mutt Lang mega stardom years. And I really don't know if there are any songs on here that I don't like. Except for the one that Steve already mentioned. The. The big important political statement. What do you guys think of Pyromania.

[Guest Speaker]

Up in a Mystery?

[Steve Singiser]

Well, I think that for me it's a different place. This is where me being older than you guys by seven years matters. Because this. This is my Scott story about the first. First cassette. Except for me, it was still vinyl. One of the first ones that I bought with my own money was Pyromania. So I listened to this thing front and back for years. And I'm all. At 10 years old. So a lot of Die Hard the Hunter was just boring to me. I didn't know it had a message because I was 10. How the hell can I know the message, right? But this is the one where you just. Each song is like, oh, this is great. Oh, this is even better. Oh my gosh. You know, and Photograph was the one that made us all fall in love with it. And it's an iconic song of the 80s. It falls in that category. But it's not even my favorite song on the album. My favorite song is the one that introduced unwittingly Jeff to the band, which is foolin'it. Just. It's the first time that they really start slow and then build to something. And the slow melody actually works. Elliot can play the more somber, slower kind of cadence. And then when it picks up, it's. It is a huge sound. You want to talk about something that sounds amazing in a stadium? I haven't seen him in a stadium. I've seen them in an amphitheater and I've seen them in an arena. 12,000 seat arena.

[Scott Bertram]

What's this?

[Jeff Blair]

Big harmonies, big three part harmonies. And it's actually a tough riff. It actually sounds like metallic. It doesn't sound corporate or slick. It still sounds. Sounds pretty dang dirty.

[Steve Singiser]

And then you get to the chorus and that's actually a key point. Pete Willis has now left the band. He's fired in 1982 because of drinking problems, which is going to be a recurring issue with the band. And Phil Collin is Brought in and all Phil Cullen did on the album because the album was already not all the way done, but pretty well done by the time they tell Pete Willis, we just can't keep doing this. Is Phil Collins brought in. He does the solos and that's a huge difference for this band because Phil Collin is a very good rock lead guitarist and his solos on this album make it sound different than the prior two in a. You know, in a way that I personally like. I know some people don't like it as much. They like the punchier, shorter, not two minute long solos or minute long solos, but the solo on fool and the solo on Rock of Ages. The thing that makes them great is not just that they're fun to listen to, but each one photograph as well fit the song so perfectly. It just meshes for a guy who was brought in off the street to replace the guitarist that had been there since the inception of the band, to come in and just have his sound mesh that quickly is really, really impressive. And from start to end you feel that kind of like what Jeff was talking about, that. Here's the mutt laying era, man. Rock, Rock till you drop is the one that opens.

[Jeff Blair]

He even gets a writing credit on that one because it's his idea. You've got to think, yeah, yeah, right.

[Steve Singiser]

And then you go to photograph. And then I know in our communication before this, Jeff brings up one of his favorites on the song is Stage Fright in terms of the hook and the sound. And that's a. There's a thing that tells you how great the songcraft for this band is. Every album, and I'll say one later when we get to Hysteria has a song that was not released as a single. But you're sitting there going, why in the name of God was this not released as a single?

[Jeff Blair]

This is huge.

[Steve Singiser]

It's amazing. You can.

[Jeff Blair]

You just stole my notes, Steve. Because that's exactly what I was going to say about Stage fright. It's. It's. It's the best song, the record for me.

[Steve Singiser]

It's great. It's just. It's unreal how there's no just or I shouldn't say no, that's an absolute and I shouldn't speak in absolutes, but there are so few, just absolute clinkers where you're like, oh, that was a mistake. Now there is one and we talked about it a little bit, which is Die Hard, the Hunter, which ends side one Back in the vinyl days. It's their longest song they'll do since Overture and it'll be the longest one. They do for quite a while. A while. It's over six minutes. Again, they're trying to do the deep thought thing because they do the militaristic sounding opener, which they'll repeat again on Gods of War, on Hysteria. And I just hate to say it, because I'm a. You know, this is political Beats. We're political people. And their politics based on their lyrics, probably closer to mine than Yalls, but.

[Jeff Blair]

But, man, I'm willing to tell. I love it when the Clash sell me socialism. It's just about how well you do it. You know what?

[Steve Singiser]

That's fair. That's absolutely fair. I'm a country music fan, for God's sake. I. I hear what you're saying. I'm picking up what you're putting down, but it's just.

[Jeff Blair]

Clottish is the problem. Yeah, it's clumsy.

[Steve Singiser]

Deep Death Leopard is not my favorite Death Leopard.

[Jeff Blair]

Right.

[Steve Singiser]

It just isn't.

[Jeff Blair]

But it reminds me of Spinal Tap trying to do Jazz Odyssey or something like that. It's like, you know, know your. Know your strengths. Okay?

[Steve Singiser]

Play. Play to your strengths. And it's not what the people came to hear, and they know that. And. Which is why you don't hear Die Hard, the Hunter on many, you know, concert playlists. And the funny thing is, here we've talked about it for a few minutes, and no one's brought up Rock of Ages, which is amazing to me, because that was. You couldn't move in the summer of 1983 from one building to the next without hearing that song. It's just. That's how huge that sound was.

[Guest Speaker]

Make it.

[Steve Singiser]

I'm going to try to leave something for you, Scott. I feel bad over here.

[Scott Bertram]

So. Hey, that's why we have guests on this show. All right, so Pyromania. Let me circle back to Foolin, because I think Foolin I'm gonna actually make. I'm gonna make a triple. I think Foolin's the best song on the record. And I don't know how often that sentiment is expressed, but think about Foolin and. And it only reached 28 in the charts, which is not a big deal. There were five or six or four or five singles that ended up reaching the charts. But Foolin. How many different ways. How many different ways does Foolin attract you? And that's why there's two songs I think are templates for hysteria on this record, and they're Foolin and Rock of Ages. Rock of Ages, because that production is so close to what you're going to hear on Hysteria when it's sort of taken into hyperdrive with that shouted refrain, that call and response stuff in the middle of Rock of Ages, that laying wall of sound on the chorus. But Foolin. Another mechanism they have is the myriad ways they try to attract you. So Foolin starts with the acoustic guitar. And then there's a really interesting Rick Savage bass part, actually. And then you get to the. Is anybody out there? That part. Okay. And then you get to. Oh, I just gotta know. And that part. And then you get to the actual chorus. FA fa fa. Foolin. And then even after that, you have Elliot with one line. Won't you stay with me? That's like seven different ways that song tries to burrow inside of your brain. And it works. And I think this. I think Steve was making the point earlier. This is that escalation and release. And one of the important things that they master on Hysteria and they lose a little bit after that is even though Def Leppard songs aren't about something thing necessarily, it has to sound like there's something at stake, right? They have to sound important. Even on something as silly as Rock of Ages. Like, there's a, like, cinematic.

[Jeff Blair]

Why they're fighting for the very soul of rock, my friend.

[Scott Bertram]

And Thulin's the same way. It feels like there's something very important happening. Even though the lyrics probably don't reflect that. But it has to.

[Jeff Blair]

But the way they say it sounds like they mean business, right?

[Scott Bertram]

It has to sound like there's something at stake. And I think they really master. Master that on Foolin, which is the best song on the record. And yes, Rock of Ages also excellent. You guys took so much. One thing I'll underline here is this was a big risk, which. For which they reaped a big reward. But you take a small step away from that first record. And Steve mentioned earlier, there's some hard, you know, Die Hards that probably say the first record to the best, the most raw, all this. Well, they went about as far away as possible on Pyromania to embrace the possibility of reaching the charts and being a big sort of pop rock band or at least reaching a pop audience. And there was no turning back from this point, clearly. But it could have flopped. It could have flopped. It could have flopped on their face. This Def Leppard, they're a rock band. What are they doing on this record? There's too many voices and too many choruses and I mean, what are they doing? And of course, the opposite is True. Haven't mentioned Too Late for Love, which is not quite a rewrite, but pretty similar to Bringing on the Heartbreak. The same way they have that mood setting. The soft, loud, dynamic record.

[Jeff Blair]

My.

[Scott Bertram]

The weakest. I don't know. I agree.

[Steve Singiser]

It's the weakest single. I will say that.

[Jeff Blair]

Yeah, we. It's a weakest thing. Okay, yeah, there's. There's. There's obviously still the goofy, pretentious song, but that, to me is the one that stands out the least. I was like, yeah, I've heard this before, because. And you know what? I didn't know why I said I'd heard this before, but the reason is because I'd actually heard this before. I'm bringing out the heartbreak.

[Guest Speaker]

Standing by the trap door of me and you the actor and the clown they're waiting for their cue There's a lady over there she's acting pretty cool but when it comes to playing light she always plays a fool Too late, too late.

[Scott Bertram]

Similar and the last thing I'll say is Rock, rock to your drop Remember I told you I internalized Adrenalize? I have also internalized Rock rock until you drop because it had to be around 94, 95. One of the radio stations in town was changing formats and they were stunting, which means you do something interesting to make people pay attention to the station before you unveil the new format. And the station near me stunted by playing Rock Rock till you drop continuously on a loop for about 10 days. And so I heard Rock Rock Til youl Drop a lot, an awful lot. So I know that one in intimate detail as well. Oh, one other thing. We move on. Something I almost didn't realize until I heard the album this time, which is, well, spoiler. Rick Allen loses his arm after Pyronan. But my point being, people think about Hysteria as being the electronic drum album, and clearly there is some, because that's his new kit. But yes, he's already using them. And the very first drum sound you hear on Pyromania is on Rock Rock Till youl Drop. And it's clearly like a Fairlight sequencer.

[Jeff Blair]

A syndrome.

[Scott Bertram]

Yeah, Fairlight, absolutely. And so there is some real drumming, I think, in places here. But by Hysteria, they're literally piecing things together on the drum track. So even on Pyromania, you sort of have that non organic drum sound which works. And it did not work. It worked, but it's already happening here on Pyromania.

[Guest Speaker]

Hold on to your head hold on to your heart Let it get sandy go Everything to the left Whing to the right there to entertain Take you through the night so grab a little here and come along with me that your mama don't mind what your mama don't see anything Come on. Anything Go.

[Jeff Blair]

All right, well that, that is as good a segue as you could hope for to the big one. And of course the big one took a lot of time to be born. Four years pass between Pyromania and its follow up, Hysteria. And there is a lot of water that flows under the bridge in that time and I'm not the one who's proper equipped to sit to explain it. I'm going to let you do that, Scott. Well, let's just start by saying that what results after four years, and I guess also these the on the genetic level fusion of Def Leppard with Mutt Lang to the point where he's now the songwriter on every track of this record.

[Scott Bertram]

Yes. And he co wrote all the songs on Pyromania too. So he was involved.

[Jeff Blair]

He, he becomes, yeah, as you said, part of the band. And in theory it took four years. Years. It's 62 flipping minutes long in the vinyl era. I have no idea how they got that on the vinyl, by the way. I mean, it's almost like they knew that this is primarily going to be a cassette and CD album and they just said screw it, this thing should fail. It is artificial, as you said, Scott, Hysteria has been pieced together like beat for beat, note for note sometimes. Yes, and, and there is nothing natural or organic about it. Nevertheless, it is one of the biggest, most successful and I gotta admit, actually greatest albums of the late 80s. You want to explain how the hell we got here?

[Guest Speaker]

Dreams and Dreams.

[Scott Bertram]

I would love to explain how we got here and I'll try to do it the truncated version, but yeah, I'll take a little bit of time and then hand it off to you guys to talk because this is, it's really an amazing story when you, when you, when you piece it all together. So Pyromania is a massive hit. Six million copies sold the first time through. Eventually went diamond 10 million sold it. It's huge, right? So they, they can do what they want with this follow up, right. They've got some leeway so they start recording. They start, they start writing these songs in, in 1984 on this little four track machine machine and Animal is the first song that they sort of have sketched out. Gods of War dates back to this era. Armageddon is from 84 and, and they're. So they start. They're ready to put some stuff.

[Jeff Blair]

Promising start. Yeah.

[Scott Bertram]

Right. As you mentioned, they're pretty much on a normal schedule right now. But. But Mutt Lang starts and Mutt Lang pulls out and says he can't. He cannot do the record. He's burned out. He is just. He. He can't do it. And I think he might have had another commitment somewhere else. Otherwise. I look at the. The discography, he really only had Heartbeat City between Pyromania and Hysteria. So it really just might have been exhaustion. He had been. He had been working non stop from essentially 80 to 83. So Mutt Lang's gone and. And by this point he's another member of the band. As. As I said, he is a. He's a member of Death.

[Jeff Blair]

Death.

[Scott Bertram]

Def Leppard. So where do you go to find a great producer for a great hard rock album? Well, people apparently not in Def Leppard thought, you know, who'd be a great producer for. For this next record record. Jim Steinman. Jim Steinman, the guy who wrote Meatloaf songs, but importantly didn't produce Meatloaf's albums. That was Todd Rundgren. So Steinman comes in, apparently at a very.

[Jeff Blair]

For those who aren't aware, by the way, Todd Rundgren is basically Mutt Lang cast back a decade earlier. The same kind of perfectionist, sonic perfection.

[Scott Bertram]

So Steinman comes in, apparently on a fairly lucrative deal because. Well, I'll explain that in a second. He comes in, he starts recording it. From the outset, it's very clear that Steinman's standards are nowhere near the standards of Mutt Lang. There are stories out there. There's one that Colin and Clark were playing. I think it's Gods of War. And they play a little bit and Steinman comes on and says, hey, that's great, guys. Think we got it. And Collins turns his. Like, we're not even in tune, like, what? What are you talking about? And they could not work the way that Steinman wanted. Simon wanted a raw rock record, Warts and all. And that's not the way Def Leppard was operating.

[Jeff Blair]

So moving so far away from that for the last. Basically from their first album onwards, they've been journeying away there.

[Scott Bertram]

So by. By October of 84, Steinman was gone. They bought him out of his deal. And at that, even at that early point point. And you'll hear this number thrown about whether it's 4 million, 5 million, they had to sell millions of copies to recoup what they paid Steinman and what they already had put into the record and it was nowhere near complete yet. So they then try to work with Mutt Lang's engineer, Nigel Green. And you think, well, you know, it's like working with this happens and producer can't do it.

[Jeff Blair]

Understood.

[Scott Bertram]

And so they said he was cordial, but the whole time both sides were second guessing. Like, do you like that? I don't. You like that? I don't know. What would Mutt think about that? How would he do this? And so they kind of got stuck in the mud too, because no one could make a decision. They were like, what would Mutt do? What would Mutt Lang do? So by this point, they've wasted. I wasted by this point we're like in the summer of 85. And Lang finally says, okay, I can do it, I'll come back, I'll do it. And by this point, by the summer of 85, Rick Allen, the drummer of Def Leppard, on New Year's Eve 84, 12-31-84, was in a horrible car crash at his cor vet, ended up having his left arm amputated. So now you have a one armed drummer in Def Leppard, which I will say, if you go to like YouTube music or I would imagine it's in other services too. They have these various band created compilations and each band member has one. And Rick Allen is called the One Arm Years. So he has a good sense of humor about this whole thing, apparently. So the drummer's got. Drummer's got one arm. Lang comes back summer 85, and he sees what they've done and he's like, we are nowhere near complete. No, like nowhere near. It would take 18 more months of work in the studio. During this time, Mutt Lang had his own car crash. He had to recover. Joe Elliot got the mumps, had to sit out a bunch of time. And they still were piecing the album. Yeah, they still were piecing the album together into the very end. Pour Some Sugar on Me was the last song. They're like, we need one more song. One more. We need something else. Okay, that's the last song.

[Jeff Blair]

One more song for an album that, by the way, was already 57 minutes long.

[Scott Bertram]

And Mutt Lang's idea for the whole album, why it took so long, was to be a hard rock thriller. And we've talked about Thriller previously, which is. It's Michael Jackson's swing to have an album that appeals to absolutely everyone. There's something for everyone. And each of those songs is crafted with the most attention to detail possible.

[Guest Speaker]

Will we shout the sun Will we surrender to violence? Here again here come tonight.

[Scott Bertram]

All the guitars here with the Rockman amp, the Tom Scholes from, from Boston amp. All the drums are programmed through the Fair Light Sequencer synthesizer. And then you take a look at what they ended up with. And From July of 1987 to January of 89, they release as singles Animal Women, Pour Some Sugar On Me, Hysteria, Armageddon It, Love Bites and Rock It. And how many of those song titles are one word choruses that can be shouted in stadiums like most of them. It's not a coincidence. These guys.

[Jeff Blair]

Syllables, three syllables tops.

[Scott Bertram]

You can grunt them out if you want. This is a band that had worked to be the biggest band in the world. And against almost all odds. Not because the talent wasn't there, the songwriting, but there were so many obstacles put in their place. They actually, actually achieved it with Hysteria. And as Jeff said, it's so pristine, it's so perfect. It sounds not organic, inorganic. In so many places. I shouldn't like it, I shouldn't. But everything is undeniable, the songs, the hooks. I have a couple of notes about reasons why, but I've talked far too long, guys. I've set the table. So tell, tell me, why does Hysteria work so well for you? Why did it work so well with the. With a majority of the country?

[Jeff Blair]

Okay, I'm gonna let Steve actually take this, but before I do, I just want to hop in to say something. I feel a little bit guilty about this because, you know, when I was a kid, I mean, come on, I was a kid, I was 10 year old, 11 year old, you know, what did we all do? We made fun of the dumb one armed drummer in Def Leppard. We're like, that's like, what do you do that with one arm? And in retrospect, I actually think it's the coolest damn thing on the planet that, you know, your drummer literally has his arm cut off. A band that is so consumed with like making it and being the biggest band in the world, well, you might think that those sort of dirty careerists would just say, well, hey, sorry mate, but we got to leave you behind and get a guy who was two arms, right? They didn't do that. They instead said, you know what, we're gonna find a way. First of all, we already know we're gonna be programming the album, so it doesn't matter. But also like, hey, he's working up his own kind of tech, right? Like sort of make it work with the one arm. And they're like, you. We're gonna support you.

[Scott Bertram]

Yeah. They literally. They pretty much gave him three. Three years to learn how to play with one. Like, don't worry about the album. We've got that go. You go over there in that room, you figure out how to play live.

[Jeff Blair]

I'd have to say, like, that's awesome. And it deserves a lot more credit for the band that everybody is, like, focused on being as big as possible to also say, hey, you know what? It's cool. We know you lost an arm. Figure out how to do this one arm. And he did. So that's why, you know, you cannot help but, like the success of Hysteria. As long as it is. I probably still take maybe one or two songs off of it, but I think it's. It's. It is legitimately one of the best albums of the late 80s and certainly one of the best hugely commercial ones of that era.

[Guest Speaker]

Make it. I don't want.

[Steve Singiser]

Yeah. You know, I say that this is arguably my favorite album ever. It's definitely in the top few, actually. My previous appearance here, Living Colors, Times up, is in that category as well. But, man, just for me personally, 60 plus minutes, but it earns every one of them. I probably listened to this album 500 times in my life, and I'm never bored. I listen to it again beginning to end last night, and I just. I don't get bored. And as someone who lived through this contemporaneously because I was a teenager by this point, the other thing about it, what Jeff says is so true, and it's because we talk about later when we talk about Steve Clark, is they were so patient as a family with their members that it was a. After putting out albums pretty much annually, to wait four years to release an album at a time when, who knows if the music movement has passed you by in that realm, to give that time for Rick Allen to learn his craft again. And I don't know if you've seen some of the live stuff from the Hysteria era, but they used to say something to the effect of it. I'm paraphrasing. So if I get it wrong a little bit, I have a friend, Hunter, who's a huge Def Lepper fan, and he'll kill me for getting this wrong. But they would say when he came on, ladies and gentlemen, the return of the Thunder God, which was Rick Allen's nickname, and just the improbability of this guy being able to play at a live show, the crowd lost it. For that pop for that more than any individual song. People wanted this to be great. And it was. When you have seven singles. And I would argue that by far from me, the best song on the album was not a single. And so I'm going to speak up for it now because I don't know if you guys were planning to talk about it. For me, the quintessential Def Leppard song. We'll obviously do the five songs at the end, but if I. I could pick one. Say you want to understand Def Leppard? Go listen to Love and Affection. It's everything. Def Leppard in one song. The dual guitars of Steve Clark and Phil Collins, which would later become Vivian Campbell and. And Phil Collin off the jump from the beginning of the song. The hook right at the start, the, you know, the single note of the guitar deleted in. And then they both come in playing over each other. The Rick Savage baseline. And then in comes Joe Elliott. And it's just. It's got everything. It's got. The verse is perfect. Then you go to the pre chorus and the pre chorus works. You know, it's just another night. I'm just another man. And then they go to the chorus and the chorus is beautiful. And then you get the Phil Collins solo on top of that. Then they play it out at the. The end. It's everything that you like about Def Leppard in five and a half minutes. I love that song. It is the one song I will not listen to if I'm in a bad mood. Cuz I don't want to sully that song with my mood. Literally. Like I don't want to think of bad things when I think of the song coming on. So if I'm having a bad day, I won't listen to it. I don't want to. I. I managed to keep this up now for 37.

[Jeff Blair]

Pollute the moment. Yeah, exactly.

[Steve Singiser]

Exactly. I managed to do this for 37 years. So it's worked so far.

[Guest Speaker]

Way in a different way. But can you handle it? Yeah, you just.

[Steve Singiser]

But you know, you could. Go Run Riot is a great rock song. You could have put that on anybody else's album and it would have been better than almost anything they did. And it's an afterthought on this album. I can't think of a total clinker. Even Gods of War, which is so over the top. Heavy handed with the.

[Jeff Blair]

That's the one with the Reagan excerpts.

[Steve Singiser]

Yes, the Reagan excerpts and the Thatcher excerpts at the end. And the militaristic Sounds to begin with just like Die Hard, the Hunter, even. It has that Rick Savage baseline that Dear Lord, just thunders through your speakers and is so good. And then the guitars coming in over the top of it. There's no song I look at here and go beginning to end. You know, there's nothing. I'm looking at the list, the. The track list right now. And the closest thing to it is Don't Shoot Shotgun, in my opinion. Opinion. And it still has its moments that are really good. I. I'm just, you know, I'm over here just basically exalting beyond all recognition. So I should probably let you guys bring us back to a little more tempered reality here.

[Jeff Blair]

Yeah.

[Scott Bertram]

I mentioned there's a. I was trying to listen and think about why some of this stuff works, why it was so effective. And I went through that whole, like Bethul and this, this, this, this, this. The thing that I noticed upon, I don't know, spin number 422 of hysteria this time around is all these songs. Rocket, Animal, Love Bites, Pour Some sugar on Me, Armageddon. They all have a huge pre chorus before the chorus. Like Rocket Scott. We Just Got to fly before you get to Rocket. And Animal. As I got to feel it in my blood before you get to the animal chorus. Love Bites. I don't want to touch you too much, baby Armageddon. Armageddon has two pre choruses. The. You know you can't stop it.

[Jeff Blair]

And they're both great.

[Guest Speaker]

Come on, Steve, get it.

[Scott Bertram]

Again. Just like with Fooling the number of ways it is. I can't remember the phrase I used in my. In the email we were passing back and forth. But it's a masterclass in. I think I call it licitor acquisition. Something along those lines. Like no stone is unturned on any of these songs in terms of finding a way to make the listener want more. And I'm going to take a moment to talk about what I think is the best. Best is relative. All these songs are top notch. I think Rocket is an extremely Def Leppard song. That rhythm that starts the wound. Ka chooka chooka chuka. Because Elliot was like getting a massage, I think, and wherever he was, was playing this. This band's music. And it had that same sort of rhythm. And he was transfixed by it and brought it in to replicate it on Rocket. And I have to say, he's totally right. That is such a hypnotic, erotic way of opening up that track. And then Rocket, the. You know, lyrically, we won't talk A lot about Def Leppard lyrics, but, you know, it's homage to that. That 70s glam era. Ziggy, Benny and the Jets, Killer Queen, Major Tom. The chorus itself, Satellite of Love. That's a Lou Reed reference. This song is six and a half minutes long. And, well, I'm half convinced that the.

[Jeff Blair]

Smashing Pumpkin song Rocket is itself a sort of slide tip of the cap to Def Leppard's Rocket. That's a very Billy Corgan thing to.

[Scott Bertram]

Do, by the way. Probably a band he liked a lot. Even that section in the middle, that sort of is the breakdown with the vocal fragments. And you hear just the bites from love. From Love Bites, there's some back masking, which is fighting for the gods of war backwards. That's how the song starts. That's in that little breakdown period. I think the last album, Die Hard, the Hunter, was too long. They couldn't justify six minutes. Here they have six and a half minutes of Rocket. But they did. Doesn't leave anything. Everything moves forward, such forward momentum throughout the entire song. I. I think Rocket's the best song.

[Guest Speaker]

Feel Rocket, Rocket, Rocket Rock, Baby, Come on I love.

[Scott Bertram]

But you could pick. You could pick a lot of stuff. You could pick Love Bites, the very first number one song on the charts. The band had a song that Mutt Lang brought to them pretty much complete as a country song. And the band turned into a pretty guitar heavy, you know, intertwined guitar heavy. Not quite a ballad, you know, but a rock ballad enough to reach number one on the Billboard character charts. Is it Pour Some Sugar On Me? I think it's.

[Jeff Blair]

I was wondering when we would get to this one. Okay. It's the most famous song of all time.

[Scott Bertram]

It is the most famous. I don't think it's the best one on the album, but it's the last one they recorded. And they. The way they were. If I remember the story correctly, the way they recorded, the way they wrote this song is Mutt Lang and Joe Elliott were like on opposite sides of the room. And they'd record, record like a set. They just make a sentence up into the recorder, throw it across the room. And the other guy would have to listen to it and try to decipher what the other person said, right or wrong. And that's the way they wrote the verses for Pour Some Sugar On Me. So again, lyrically does not make one difference whatsoever. But musically, that's the song that grabbed me. That's the song that turned this around. Because Hysteria was released. The first single was Animal Did Okay, Women, or actually women was first in the U.S. i think, and then Animal was second and did okay. You had some. Maybe a million, million copies sold, but it was slowing down. It was going through a normal cycle. And Pour Some Sugar On Me, the third single from the album, blew everything into another stratosphere. Without Pour Some Sugar On Me, this is. We're not talking about Hysteria in the way we are today, and so hugely important. So song. Song that's on every karaoke bar everywhere. Every cover band plays everywhere. Great song. It's not my favorite song for the record, but it was my favorite back then. That's a great track. And Steve talked about some of the album tracks. The one thing I'll say about the album tracks and hand it over to Jeff is Don't shoot Shotgun. Not great. I think Excitable is not great. The thing is, those are the two.

[Jeff Blair]

I would probably cut myself.

[Scott Bertram]

Yeah. But the thing is, I agree. Even if I don't like it, other people might have, like. It's. It's not that they're not well done. They're just not for me. Like, Excitable is kind of just.

[Jeff Blair]

This is what happens when you have an album that plays to every demo.

[Scott Bertram]

Yes, there's gonna be.

[Jeff Blair]

Some of them aren't for you.

[Scott Bertram]

Like, the Girl Is Mine might not be your favorite Michael Jackson song, but somebody liked it, and it was an important part of the album. So somebody out there loves Excitable, and I sort of understand why it's there, so I'll let Jeff. Heck, we haven't talked about Hysteria, the actual song yet, but maybe Jeff will. If not, we'll figure it out later, you know.

[Jeff Blair]

Oh, I will. Don't worry.

[Scott Bertram]

It's. It's. It's. It's such a great album. It's. And every song is so meticulously laid out and so meticulously. Oh, I. I gotta say this, because I. So I found this out this time. Hysteria, those wonderful, clean chords. Like, I gotta know tonight. Boom, boom, boom. Those chords are not chords. Those chords were recorded one note at a time at a time by Mutt Laying and then pieced together for the final version. That is an insane level of commitment to getting the sound that you want. But that is. That is Mutt La.

[Guest Speaker]

Alone tonight. Can't stop this. Can't stop this.

[Jeff Blair]

All right, Jeff, go. That is. That is what you can do when you have, like, the ability to use 64 tracks as opposed to, like, the Beatles doing Sgt. Peppers in 1967 on four tracks.

[Scott Bertram]

Right.

[Jeff Blair]

When you can literally like piece together chords one guitar note at a time. You can get that kind of perfection. Well, you guys have talked so much about Hysteria. At this point, I don't know much if I have much to say. I will only point out that like Pour Some Sugar On Me, you. You guys pointed out. There are seven singles on this album. I had only heard two of them despite the fact that my brother owned this record. It was a cd, we had it in our collection. I didn't listen to most of my brother's stuff, so I only had ever heard of course, Pour Some Sugar on Me. I love how you pointed out how the lyrics are meaningless. When I was a kid, Scott, I could not actually make out what the title was saying. I had no idea idea what the title of the song was. And I. It was just syllables to me it was like more song shooty ombre. Like it's something in the name of love. Pour Some Sugar On Me is something I read years later and I'm like, oh yeah, that fits the sketching of that dumb rock song I knew as a kid. But the thing is it's. It may be a dumb song, but it's like smart, stupid. It's stupid like a fox. The hooks that they put on the, that I. I mean I've probably heard the kicker on the chorus to Pour Some Sugar On Me when I was 8 years old. And I've never forgotten. I'm hot, sticky sweet from a head to my feet.

[Scott Bertram]

Yeah.

[Jeff Blair]

It pretty much was the quintessence of what it felt like to be a. An 8 year old idiot with no care in the world.

[Guest Speaker]

I'm hot.

[Jeff Blair]

You know, I'm just some dumb guy strutting along, listen. Listening to my late 80s rock music. So I love it for that. And you wondered whether anyone was going to mention the title track, Hysteria. That was the other song that I recognized from this album. And I again did not know this was a Def Leppard song until I re earthed it. I unearthed it again here for the show. I love that dumbass back ballad. I love Hysteria. It is long, it's a longer song than most of what Def Leppard's the Canon will be. And it's a slow song, it's not a big rocker. And in fact, given the name when we got to the album, I thought, well, the title track will probably be some big thrasher. No, it's that, that ballad that I've heard on the radio since I was like 9 years old. And I love every second of it. And finding. Finding out that the chords were literally created one note at a time to get that pristine sound. Well, I mean, that doesn't even surprise me at all, knowing what I know now. That's. That's Mutt Lang. And this is. It is. As much as I like to complain about overlong albums, albums that are 62 minutes long, even in the vinyl era. Yeah, I could remove 2, 2 of songs and it would still be 53 minutes long. It would still be over long. As far as I'm concerned, when it comes to albums, albums, I don't mind because as you guys point out, these things are also well produced. It is really one of those records that just carries you away, despite your reservations. Whatever my. My feelings about the aesthetics of the late 80s, the commercial sound of the era, you cannot deny great songwriting and great production. And by the way, that means you only really need two out of three to make a class classic, because it isn't great lyrics, friends. This is just about the sound and the feel of some of the best hard rock of the era.

[Steve Singiser]

I don't know, guys. Have you ever had anybody on your show who didn't talk about a song, but it's in their top five? Because literally this album is so huge that that's the case for me.

[Scott Bertram]

Yeah, we've had it. Whoa.

[Jeff Blair]

Okay. Shall we find out later or do you want to.

[Steve Singiser]

Oh, yeah, we'll find out. We'll find out later.

[Jeff Blair]

Find out. Well, hey, well, you know what? We got time to kill maybe though, because we have another. What's a half a damn decade until five years, he thought. Four years is a long layoff. Well, they fit, man. We can top that. Now again, I do not know why it took them five years. Do you know, Scott, to come out with adrenalize? The. The hit single. The hit album for every 12 year old in that era, which we both intimate.

[Steve Singiser]

I actually do. I. Oh, sorry. I was gonna say I do know the story.

[Scott Bertram]

Go ahead, Steve, take this one. Okay.

[Steve Singiser]

Well, at least part of it. And Scott, feel free to. To add, but two things happened. One, an album this big, they had to tour with it. And remember, there are singles on this album that are charting for over two. Almost two years.

[Jeff Blair]

Yeah, you can see the tour extending on to like 1989, 90 or something.

[Steve Singiser]

Yeah, I think it got to 90. And that's when Steve Clark started to have his issues. He had gone. Him and Phil Collin had been close friends and drinking buddies since Phil Collin had joined the band. But it had gotten bad and so bad. That Phil Collin had actually gone sober. I want to say it was an 88 or 89. Just like, I can't do this anymore.

[Scott Bertram]

Yeah, I just want to underscore. I'll let you continue. But you know, we've done the show a long time and we've had a lot of alcoholics. Apparently from stories like Steve Clark is just off the charts, like beyond anything you could possibly imagine in terms of his. His consumption of alcohol around this time. Like mind blowing amounts of alcohol.

[Steve Singiser]

There was a guy on the Raiders at the same time that died in a car crash who had a blood alcohol level.31. And Steve Clark, I think his personal best was in the.05 5.6 range.

[Scott Bertram]

I thought it was 0.5 something. Which is.

[Steve Singiser]

Yeah. Which is. It should kill you. It kills most people. So again, it goes back to what we're talking about with Rick Allen. They say to Steve Clark, you're our guitarist, you are steaming. Steve Clark, go to rehab, we'll wait for you. And they had some of the songs for Adrenalized, kind of workshopped, if you will. And I think the total number of attempts at rehab. They did a full intervention with him during one of the tours in a 89, I think it was seven times he went to rehab and it just never took and never took. And so he passes away and that creates another delay. Not because they're trying to find another guitarist because as I'm sure Scott was going to get to, they don't have another guitars for Adrenaline. It's a four piece band. But just because emotionally, you know, they couldn't just go right back in the studio and pretend nothing happened.

[Jeff Blair]

Yeah, it hurts to try your best and fail.

[Scott Bertram]

Right.

[Steve Singiser]

And also they needed Phil Collin to. Because it was just kind of in the raw stages. They needed Phil Collin to mimic Steve Clark's guitar parts. And Phil Collins talks about that and he says it was very. You know, he could do it technically, but it was very uncomfortable. He said it was like playing along to a ghost. And so you could see how that would slow the pace of recording. And it's a tragedy for them because as we know and we talked about in our communications prior, the whole musical landscape changes under their feet by the time it does get released.

[Jeff Blair]

And this is the first time you actually hear them. And then you hear like, well, Pearl Jams 10 came out the year before Nirvana's Never Mind. Oh, things are changing.

[Steve Singiser]

Right. It just feels like all of a sudden, even though the only the inter. The interlude between the two is four and A half years. It might as well have been two decades later. It feels like a comeback album, even though. Though it's technically not.

[Guest Speaker]

Wa.

[Jeff Blair]

I. I've got, shall we say, about the album that basically was the. Would you say it was the most formative moment of your childhood? No, I'm kidding.

[Scott Bertram]

But I listened a lot. I. And I liked it a lot back then. I liked it a little less, you know, year by year, as it. As it goes on. And I kind of. I hardened some thoughts around adrenaline. So I'll present those and then you guys can talk a bit about the record and, you know, the video for let's Get Rocked. Perhaps. But this has to be the most predictable come down in music history, because think about what they don't have on Adrenalize. They don't have Mutt Lang, the guy who put together the sound that sold tens of millions of records. He's technically an executive producer. He wrote some of the songs, but he is not present in the way he had been previously. That guy's not around in. Anymore. That's a huge part of what made Def Leppard popular, successful, and. And. And, you know, creatively a great band. And what else don't they have? Well, they don't have Steve Clark for, you know, a good portion of the record. And, you know, we've talked a lot about Clark. Clark was. I always. You know, the visual of him is having his guitar, like, down to his knees and trying to play. He was not. He was not a technical guy like Colin, you know, he was a field guitar guitarist. But Elliot once said, you know, Clark rarely wrote full songs. He'd write, like, these great riffs and then they'd intersperse them with the songs. And he'd do, you know, some things longer than that, but he was really thinking about these really great pieces. And as I've kind of said, like, what sets the past two albums apart is those little pieces that are a little bit jumbled together in all the songs. Songs. And they don't have Steve Clark here either. No Mutt and no Steve Clark is a really big problem. And so I. It's not. I don't think it's a bad album, but I think it's half an album in this way. And this is my big. This is what I came up with this time. So take. Take your notes. I Adrenalize in my mind is. Is an album, is a mirrored album split into half. And by that I mean, if you look at the track, there's only 10 tracks here. By the way. And at least three of them are old. Stand up is old. Tear it down is really old. Tonight is old. So like maybe seven new songs or six and a half new songs. To me, this is an album, a mirrored album split in two. Here's what I mean. If you start partnering up these songs, in my mind, you find pen pairs all throughout the album. So Stand Up, Kick Love into motion and have you ever needed someone so bad? Pretty similar songs. Stand Up's the better song. Tear it down and Personal Property. Pretty similar song. Tear it down is the better song. Tonight and White Lightning right next to each other and pretty similar songs. Tonight's the better song.

[Jeff Blair]

Older songs are the better songs.

[Scott Bertram]

I was gonna get there. Yeah. So Heaven is. And I want to touch you. Our same song. Heaven is. Is the better song. Might be the best song on the record. Make Love like. Like a Man is kind of like, let's get rocked. I think Make Love Like a Man is the best song. What are all those better songs have in common? They're the only songs Steve Clark co wrote on the album, and they're all the better songs. And so I don't know if it was an intentional approach, but it seems like, all right, we're going to take two bites at this particular type of apple and two bites at this particular type of of apple. And the way it ends up is the older songs and the songs that Clark contributed to, in my mind, are much, much, much, much, much better. You don't have Mutt Lang to play Superman and save the day with whatever techniques he might have used on the production end. He wasn't there to do that. So you're kind of left with half a record that kind of works and half that doesn't, and the hooks aren't there and you don't have the payoff you had on the past two records. And it's not terrible, terrible, but it's not the Def Leppard we know and love. And I think it really has not aged very well either. That's my basic adrenalized take. Here's where you tell me why I'm wrong.

[Guest Speaker]

No one.

[Jeff Blair]

No Scott. In fact, I congratulate you on literally, basically, the words out of my mouth like. Like that ghost that just sucks your breath away. It's horrible. You're terrible, terrible thing to do with me. So, Steve, why don't you take it instead? But yeah, I like your thesis.

[Steve Singiser]

I can't disagree with it at all. Except I will say that personally and maybe because the emotional punch Of White Lightning because it's. It's about Steve Clark. I like it better than Tonight. Tonight may be the only single in their entire discography. I just straight up don't like. I just don't enjoy it at all. And I. I can't say why, but it just, it's visceral. I. I don't love it. But you hear right from the beginning, let's Get Rocked just sounds so. It gives off such a how do you do, fellow kids vibe. It just, it just, it's so good. It just feels so out of place. And the video, okay, the video's fun, but the video. If you're a Def Leppard fan, if you're me at this point, I'm 20, I'm 19, and I've been a fan since I was 10. You, these rock and roll guys and the swords and the women and the pyrotechnics.

[Jeff Blair]

Now you feel condescended to. Yes.

[Steve Singiser]

Now it's a cartoon, weird looking, nerdy kid who is lazy. Reading a magazine that says lazy. And it's like, oh, no, what have you done to my band? And of course, by this time, you know, going through the music era at the time, I'm now into Alice in Chains is my favorite band, and I'm into Pearl Jam. And I was actually a bigger Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Alison Chains guy than a Nirvana guy. But listening to this was like hearing a snapshot back in time. But I didn't remember it fondly because it didn't sound as good as the stuff I remember.

[Guest Speaker]

Let's get the rock out of here. Tell me we can up all night Won't take a minute, Won't take long.

[Steve Singiser]

But then you get the later stuff, the stuff Scott's alluding to, the stuff that Steve Clark did perform on. I think Tear It Down's best song on the album.

[Scott Bertram]

Yeah. Tear it down or Heaven Is is the best song. And terrible. Tear it down dates back to 84. Tear It Down's an old song.

[Steve Singiser]

Yeah. And Heaven Is is the best single. And it's the only one that sounds like Steve Clark's playing on it. Because Phil Collin worked really hard to his credit, to try to mimic that sound. But he's a technical guitarist. He's not like I think Jeff said earlier, may have been you, Scott. If it is, I apologize. Steve Clark admitted I'm a sloppy guitarist. Well, it's like trying to tell someone who is a figure skater to just kind of flop around on the ice. They can't do it. It's not in their DNA. DNA, but Steve Clark, or, excuse me, My bad, Phil Collins comes closer to it on Heaven Is than any other song. And it feels like a hysteria song. And that's a good thing. A lot of this does not. And it's a bad thing. And you're right, it's not that it's bad, it's just how do you. How do you come back from pyromanian hysteria? They were given an impossible task. The epicenter of music had just shifted underneath their feet. They're all five years older now. They're getting married. In some cases they're getting divorced and. And. Or they're about to be getting divorced and they're. And they're now in their 30s, some of them, and it's just so. It feels a little bit disappointing, but it's. It's really circumstantial.

[Scott Bertram]

You.

[Steve Singiser]

You're right, Scott. You can't replace Mutt Lang even by giving him an executive producer title. And you can't replace Steve Clark, you know, and although they tried it with Viv Campbell, he's great. He's a. Especially live. He is a really talented guitarist. But Steve Clark brought a certain. A certain vibe, a certain personality to their music. That. That's gonna be.

[Jeff Blair]

That was kind of famed for its being inorganic, producing wise. He was actually probably the most organic aspect of them because. Precisely because he didn't have the chops, per se, but he had the quality control.

[Steve Singiser]

100. 100.

[Jeff Blair]

Yeah.

[Steve Singiser]

So I'm gonna leave the rest, Jeff. But I just. Yeah, it's. It's a disappointment, but I feel bad saying that because you put everything up against them. I mean, talk about adversity. And they still produce an album with a lot of really nice songs on them. It's just. It's not front to back great. That's. And that's holding to an impossible standard.

[Scott Bertram]

Right.

[Steve Singiser]

But it's where we are.

[Guest Speaker]

Come on, do it good do it.

[Steve Singiser]

Right.

[Guest Speaker]

Just call me on the phone and baby, come over when you need some weather when you need some water oh, make love like a man I'm a man.

[Jeff Blair]

It'S fascinating to find that there are like this. This whole thing about metal bands or hard rock bands maybe standing still on their laurels for too long and then finding out the industry has passed them by. It isn't just Def Leppard's problem. We did long ago. We did an episode on Guns and Roses. Let me tell you, my friend had the exact same problem. Was it between 1986 and 1991? When they first put out their first and second albums.

[Steve Singiser]

Yeah.

[Jeff Blair]

So, like, this wasn't unique to Def Leppard, but you can absolutely hear it happening at this time. And, of course, all I can do is now flash immediately back to my childhood memory series. And it's funny, Steve, you said you felt condescended too. Let's get rocked and all of that. Well, you might have been 20 or 19 years old. I was 12, okay? So I didn't feel condescended to at all. I was like, cool, dude. You gotta understand, this is like 1992 or something like that. This, to me was like the follow on to Terminator 2. Like, the great CGI effects. And, you know, like, I think the only. The last thing I remember in this genre would have been Brothers Money for Nothing off of Brothers in Arms, but they are straight. So that's 1986 or something like that. And so, like, yes, this really crappily animated, like, CGI kid reading Mad. It's called Lazy Magazine. My mind. It's always Mad Magazine, but it's the same idea, you know, and it's such a pander. It's such a naked pander to my suburban sensibilities. Son of a. It worked because I know every second of that dumb song. You know, let's get the rock out of here. Let's just open the show with it, man. I still remember that from age 11. This stuff is not good, but it is inextricably tied up with, like, my childhood memories. And I think you guys basically said everything else I was gonna say about it, because I think Tear it down and Heaven Is are pretty clearly the best two songs on the record. And I really love Scott's theory about how. Yeah, this is a very mirrored album where they're like, okay, we have, like, one version of this, you know, with Clark that's good. And now we're gonna just do a slightly lesser version of it without him. And, yeah, the absence of Mutt Laying, although I'll notice. You know, I went back and looked at the credits. Mutlang's name is all over the songwriting on this.

[Scott Bertram]

Yeah, he wrote I don't six or seven, I think.

[Jeff Blair]

But, like, you have no idea what a credit really means in this context. Is it. Is it a real songwriting credit? Is it an executive producer's credit? Is it, like, he comes in and says, you know, I turn the bass up, turn the treble down.

[Steve Singiser]

Like, it.

[Jeff Blair]

You know, you cannot know in those contexts unless you're a super. Which, of course, I'm not.

[Scott Bertram]

My Understanding is that he was it. Where's my note? I think no, he was working. He was. He was working with Brian Adams on his record at this point. And so, yeah, he was. He was essentially MIA from this one completely.

[Guest Speaker]

You will. When you get that rhythm going up with no, I see the fire in your eyes this night could pretend.

[Jeff Blair]

Yeah. And I would say that this, of course, is the inevitable sort of like, you know, career arcs usually can be traced upon like a nice bell curve. You know, you had a peak and then now it's all downhill from here. And then I think this is pretty much where it happens for Def Leppard were done for the fact that I secretly consider their B Sides and Rarities compilation to be one of the two greatest records of their entire career.

[Guest Speaker]

Turn into. So stick around, settle down, enjoy.

[Jeff Blair]

So I remember Steve just earlier today emailed us to say, does anybody here are we going to be discussing the Retroactive rarity set? And I was like, I sure as hell hope we are. Because I think it's one of the two best things that they ever did. And I have no idea whether you people think I'm crazy for it. There is at least one mega hit single on this record. What I love about this is that because it is like an off cuttings record, it's a variety show and you actually hear all these different kinds of Def Leppard approaches that you're just not going to get get on an album where everything's sanded away perfectly to be a hit single. What do you guys think of Retroactive? The one song from this that everyone knows. And this is again the last of these, where I was like, holy crap, that's a Def Leppard song. Two steps behind. Like I heard that every other day on the radio in 1993 or whenever it was. I had no idea it was a Def Leppard song. And I have to admit, yeah, maybe it's a generic ballad, but I kind of dig it still. What do you guys think of the. Of their Rarities compilation, which is way better in my opinion than it has any right to be.

[Guest Speaker]

There to remind you that it only takes a minute of your precious time. Turn around, I'll be two steps behind.

[Scott Bertram]

Let me pop in quickly and then let Steve say more things. I've never spent a lot of time with Retroactive. For no particular reason. Two Steps behind became a huge hit after it was on the Last Action. I think the Last Action Hero soundtrack. And they put it here with both the acoustic version and an electric version later on, there's two pretty good two versions of Miss yous in a Heartbeat, which is a Phil Collins song. I'll just say a couple brief things. Fractured Love, which is hysteria leftover. If you get past the first two minutes, which drone a bit, which might be why it didn't make the album. That's a total banger for the. For the last three minutes of it. That's a great song. Ring of Fire, late on the record is one that Lang wrote with them. And that's a fantastic song. And the one other thing that I love about this is, again, I had not spent a ton of time with. They re recorded right into the sun on this. And it begins with this new, like, stupendous piano intro. And I'm listening to this piano intro like, that is. So you know what that reminds me of? That reminds me of Mott the Hoople. That is really a Mott the Hoople kind of piano intro. You know who freaking plays it? Ian Hunter. So it is my ears. Don't deceive me. It is a very Mott the Hoople kind of intro, billed, by the way.

[Jeff Blair]

As Honky Tonk Messiah on the album credits, which I like.

[Scott Bertram]

So my ears didn't deceive me.

[Guest Speaker]

Sat.

[Scott Bertram]

It's. I. It's fine. It's. It's. It's. It's not a complete statement as a record. As Jeff alluded to. You get bits and pieces and. And people. There's a lot of solo writing credits on this record, which is not very common at all for Def Leppard at all for them. Right. But, Steve, what do you think?

[Steve Singiser]

Well, I. I think the genesis of how this came to be is a big part of the story, which is this was everything that was left in the vault that was from the Steve Clark era. So this is them trying to turn the page. Okay, here. Here, we're putting this all out to you. I think the piece in this album, there's individual. You hit a lot of the songs that I like, too. I also like Desert Song, which is about as close as they get to grunge sensibilities, if you will. It's an enjoyable.

[Jeff Blair]

Really good song.

[Steve Singiser]

Yeah, it's a really good song.

[Guest Speaker]

You stand here today I wait for the D into the.

[Steve Singiser]

But the killer for me is two steps behind. Because of the two different versions, either one of them would have worked. So for those who aren't familiar with the background, the song was originally written, like, in the. For the early Adrenaline sessions, I think, as an electric song. Just a Standard Def Leppard song. And then after playing with for a while, Phil Collin came to Joe Elliot, who was the. This is one of the few songs he wrote by himself and says, hey, you know, this might work as an acoustic track. And it becomes one of their biggest hits ever. I think it's top 10 or top 15, 15 on the billboard chart. It's a monster hit. But go back and listen to the electronic version or the electric version. Not electronic. Makes it sound like it was a, you know, makes it sound like it was in some sort of a disco in Ibiza or something. The electric version is. Could stand up to any Def Leppard album. You could have put it on Pyromania, Hysteria, any of them, and it would have been good. The, the pre chorus is there. The, the, the, the solos. Everything's there. It's. It's a beautiful song either way.

[Jeff Blair]

And it was just a B side, I think, back in the day, right. They threw it away on Make Love Like a Man.

[Steve Singiser]

I think that's right. Yeah.

[Jeff Blair]

I was like, well, I mean, you.

[Steve Singiser]

Know, could have swapped those and been better off, but It's. It's definitely a four. Fans only. I have to recommend go on YouTube and watch the videos from the air. I can't remember if it's two steps behind or if it's Miss you in a Heartbeat. Joe Elliott with a ghost goatee. I was not prepared. I wasn't ready. And I think that actually kind of in a way gives us the anachronism of the time, right? This is a time where, you know, kids my age who grew up on hysteria and power mania, now we're into Alice in Chains and Pearl Jam and guys that literally. And I don't mean this in a negative way, but look, grunge is a name. It's also a sensibility. They look like they just rolled out of a garbage, you know, bin to Purple perform. And here's Joe Elliot. Good looking guy, hair, immaculate goatee, on a piano singing. Miss you in a heartbeat. It's like, yeah, maybe the times have passed our guys by a little bit here.

[Guest Speaker]

I keep the faith and there's a reason why. Yeah, no need to worry, no need to turn away. Cause it don't matter anyway, baby and miss you in a heartbeat. Yeah.

[Jeff Blair]

I mean, there are things on this record that I appreciate again. I like it when I see like, you know, sort of like you tilt over the rock, you find out what's underneath it. But there are like thrown away great pop songs here. Like She's Too tough. That thing that to me could have been a hit. In fact, it even. It even invokes with the Girl Can't Help it, which is like this old 50s film, you know, she's too tough. The Girl Can't Help It. The Girl Can't Help It. Like, man, that is a killer little chorus just tossed away. I don't. I have no idea where it comes from or, like what era it hails from. Maybe it's the Hysteria era, maybe it's the Adrenalized era. It's hard to tell. But there's a lot of like, really good stuff here that to me, me, is more interesting than anything you're gonna hear on the records, basically on adrenaline's or what comes afterwards. So I just think like, you know, you never think like the random B sides and off cuttings compilation. This one might make. This is gonna make my top two at the end. Just because this gives you the full scope of what from the big hits, from stuff like Two Steps behind, which, you know, as Steve said, could have been on any of their classic albums to like, weird little, like. Yeah. Piano ballads that prove that maybe the time was passing them by. It's. It' pretty good stuff. And I don't know if I can say that about slang. So do we want to talk about that or do we want. Want to briefly discuss the greatest hits album and that one new song on it?

[Scott Bertram]

I don't have much to say about the greatest hits album unless.

[Jeff Blair]

Neither do I. I just wanted to make sure that no one else did.

[Steve Singiser]

But, I mean, When Love and Hate Collide was a modest hit, but, yeah, it's the greatest hit.

[Jeff Blair]

Yeah, exactly.

[Scott Bertram]

Slang. So what do we think about slang if retroactive. It was, you know, closing the door on the. On the Steve Clark era of the band. Slang was the attempt to close the door on the Mutt Lang era of the band. This is totally divorced from the sound that made them famous, which seems like an odd thing to do. But it's also 1996, and as Jeff said, if you're a hard rock, you know, heavy metal kind of band, you don't want to get encased in that echo. Amber and unable to break out. So they wanted to do something very different. And this is only two years after retroactive. It's 96. And Phil Collin went through a divorce. Rick Savage was battling Bell's Palsy. Both Rick Allen and Joe Elliot were arrested for various things. There's a lot of stuff going on in the band and they. They kind of poured it into Slang, which is a. A dirtier, more, I guess, dark, darker sort of collection of songs. Alan's going back to play sort of a more normal drum kit. You don't have the electronic sounding, you know, fairlight sounding drums and might have worked except for two things. One, they can't quite. I don't want to say pantomime, but they can't quite get themselves in line with the sound of the era. It just. It sounds off. And then two, which is much, a much bigger problem, they don't have the hooks to sell it. I mean, they don't have the songs to sell it. This time I was listening to Slang and there's a couple of things that aren't bad. I think Deliver Me is a good rocker. There's one called All I Want is Everything, which is a pretty basic kind of rock song. Works okay. What entered my mind most often is Slang sounds like. It sounds. Sounds like a collective soul album from the same period like that. I think it's called Discipline Breakdown, which would have been 96 or 97. That's the sound it reminds me of. And so if you're Def Leppard and the best I can say is you kind of sound like collective soul, you've kind of lost the plot. You've kind of lost the reason that people would want to come and listen to your songs or buy your records. And they're not trying to be the biggest band on the planet here. They're just trying to be a band playing some music that was kind of popular around this time and it didn't work.

[Guest Speaker]

And I wait for the blood I swim in blood As I call her my name and I'm making mistakes Take the ass on your breath and you can't shout it.

[Steve Singiser]

I think that Lang for me is by far my least favorite album. I think it is for quite a few people, to be honest. And I give him a lot of credit for the effort. Every band kind of seems to do this like the here we're going to break out of our chains and do something different. The problem with this is it doesn't sound like, hey, we found a new sound we want to try. It sounds like, hey, let's do a cover with our own lyrics of every major hit artist of the last 10 years. So, oh, hey, Prince is really popular. Let's do Slang. And it sounds like a 45 minute written, you know, written in 45 minutes interpretation or print song. And oh, hey, Nine Inch Nails is big. Let's make truth. And then my favorite, which Is. And it actually is not a horrible song, I'll admit it. But in Breathe A Sigh, which is the ballad on the album, it's like, hey, a lot of these weddings I go to, they do a song by this band called all for One. Let's do that and call it Breathe A Sigh. And it almost works, but not really.

[Guest Speaker]

To see.

[Jeff Blair]

Try.

[Guest Speaker]

Tenderness.

[Steve Singiser]

And then the worst one to me is Work It Out. It's my least favorite song, the album. It's like Dishwalla, but someone was listening to Mediate on the way into the freaking. Into the studio. So they do the vocal stylings of Michael Hutchinson, Mediate. You know, it's. It's. It's bad.

[Jeff Blair]

That's the only. That's like one of the only songs I kind of sort of like. And it's like, so. But the thing is, you're so right about the idea that they're trying to imitate every artist there on the church. You, for Breathe aside, you said All For One, what I was thinking of is that they listen to Extreme doing more than words.

[Steve Singiser]

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[Jeff Blair]

Right. Like the hard rock band goes like acoustic acapella. And like now. Now we're doing this sentimental crap. Ah, Christmas. Just like. This is not Def Leppard in any way. Like, if you like this band, you like them for a specific reason and a certain kind of approach. And the songwriting, again, without Mutt Lang and again, you know, without Steve Clark, you know, it's not going to be the same thing at all. And it really shows on this record.

[Steve Singiser]

I will say I give them credit for something which is trying to use some different instrumentation. My favorite button of the album is Turn to Dust and that it opens with this very Indian sounding sensibility. I don't know if that's a serangi, a sitar. I don't know what it is.

[Scott Bertram]

Serangi.

[Jeff Blair]

Sitar. Serangi. I thought it was a sit. Okay, my bad.

[Steve Singiser]

But then it comes and it's, you know, it's a Def Leppard song, but it has these little quirks to it.

[Jeff Blair]

That's what that works.

[Steve Singiser]

If the entire album had been that, I think I would have liked it a lot more. But it's so self conscious. Like, if you can't listen to truth and not be like, oh, someone definitely had the downward spiral in their CD changer in their car when they were driving in.

[Jeff Blair]

Yeah, I know. I mean, you're saying.

[Steve Singiser]

Yeah, I was going to say it has its moments. I agree with Scott. I really. I like all I Want is Everything. Although there's another song with the exact same title by the power pop band Jellyfish, that is a better All I Want is Everything, but it's. It's good. And Turn to Dust is my favorite. And even breathe a sigh, even though it is. Now you got it, Jeff. It is more than words Rehashed. Yes, it's a little better than more than words, but that's. That's damning it with faint praise.

[Jeff Blair]

Well, but is it as good as wholehearted? Also by extreme, the same. They had a whole thing going on back in that era. God, kids, you had to be there. That's all I can tell you. So what do we think then about. I think we all agreed in advance that, like, when we're going to cover Def Leppard, they've. They've done several albums since then, but I think we. We kind of decided to sort of close the era with this next album, 1999's Euphoria. And what were you going to say?

[Scott Bertram]

Because we can actually say some nice things. It's always fun to end episodes at a high note as opposed to talking about end on up.

[Jeff Blair]

No. And so this is the thing. I think this is a little bit. Again, all of this stuff. By 1999, I. I was like. I couldn't give a crap less about anything except the Beatles, the who, and maybe in the modern ea, radio head. All right, I was not listening to this album. I never heard a note of this album. I come to it afresh, and I was actually a little bit surprised to find myself thinking, hey, this isn't so bad. This isn't great. This isn't hysteria. This isn't even adrenaline. But it's that bad, actually, at all.

[Guest Speaker]

Kiss this. You're blowing my mind. Never say never But I take of my time girl to the world from the A to the Z I fought for you so easily Catch my breath. Cause I know too well that I just can't control that cell Realize it's synchronized it's only when I close my eyes.

[Scott Bertram]

No, I think that euphoria is a. It's a conscious attempt at a semi return to form. Meaning you're seven years past Dreadalize. You're much farther away from Hysteria. You can't quite capture that. But you. You also say to your fans, we understand why you like that. Here's a bit of it interspersed with other stuff. And some of that other stuff is sort of residue of the fact that their charting signals since then have been two steps behind and essentially balance Stand up, pick love and emotion. Have you ever needed someone so bad Was very big for the band and so you do have a little bit more of that sort of song creeping in on Euphoria. But there are some really good parts here. Promises is the classic sound, right. We had. They had Mutt Lang for four days. Four days to work on Euphoria and spruce it up in places. He helped to co write Promises and I think that was the lead single and I remember all the time. Oh, Def Leppard, you know, has returned to form or at least you know, embracing the old Def Leppard song. And well, yeah, you can hear that on Promises. There's no doubt about it. It's a really good song. It does have the stacked vocals, the Mutt Lang touch. That's all there on Prom Promises. It's like that, that, that reach back to the past and it works.

[Guest Speaker]

Going to give me some of you honesty. You want me to promise you that everything is true I won't make promises that I can keep I won't make promises that I don't need.

[Scott Bertram]

Devilish and man. First track on the album is very good. I like day after day 21st century Shalala girl is, is an interesting little twist on the formula. But I, I, I will say I, I think, I think there's a song on here that. That could stand alongside almost anything they did on any album. Maybe it's the song that replaced.

[Jeff Blair]

You're gonna steal my one note, aren't you? I don't know. Let's find out. What's the one song?

[Scott Bertram]

You know, maybe it could have rep on Hysteria and it would not have sounded out of place. There's track on this record called Paper Son and Paper sun is. It's an excellent song. It's. It's not good. It's excellent. It's an excellent Def Leppard song. Everybody gets a writing credit on it. And I think that's sort of an important note about it that there is a little bit of contribution from everybody involved. It has the same sort of bringing on the Heartbreak Break trick of setting a scene. It sounds a little foreboding when things start. You do have the Mutt Laying vocal effect. There's a wonderful pre chorus on Paper Son which of course brings you back to Hysteria time. Colin's got a tremendous solo on the back half of the track. Paper Son. That's a, that's a song that just. It's not, it's not the best but it's. You know, it. It's in the team picture. And coming this late on an album that followed Slang. It's a great little surprise about halfway through Euphoria.

[Guest Speaker]

Do all the damage.

[Steve Singiser]

Yeah, I. You know, everything he's about paper, son. I agree with. I actually wrote in my notes here would have been at home in either of the two monster hit albums. And it's the first time that Viv Campbell starts to sound like Steve Clark in that song. There's that interplay that just meshes. It's. It's wonderful. I also have to echo Scott on Promises. I will say when I saw the video, now I'm now in my. I'm married in my twenties. So Def Leppard is this band from my, you know, kidhood. And here I'm watching the Promises video, and I had the same reaction Scott did. Like, this is it. This is. This is the Def Leppard I remember. And then I see the video, and Joe Elliot, Rick Savage, and Phil Collin have all had, at the time, shorter hair than I did. I'm like, it's kind of the way everyone freaked out when Metallica all got haircuts, right? It's like, no, no. How could you? But it's. It's a great. Just great rock song. My favorite little, you know, fun fact of this album is on Demolition man, which I also like. Basically every song that Scott liked, I like. The closing solo is not Phil Collin. It's not Viv Campbell. It's a guy named Damon Hill. Now, if you don't know who Damon Hill is, you could be forgiven. Damon Hill was a Formula One driver at the time who was a friend of Phil Collins. So he's like, yeah, mate, I love guitar. Oh, hey, play this. And he plays them out at the end of the song. And it actually. It's not terrible. So, you know, nice pinch.

[Guest Speaker]

There's a new Been so subliminal Bring down the walls of wonderland Just another high cowboy Telling me everything and everyone and all the things I ought to be Here I am your demolition man I'm a beast disp. I'm an acid. I'm a primitive in your face that's another to bring it to your.

[Steve Singiser]

But it. It's got so many nice pieces to it. And alas, it does have its down moments. It's only love sounds like a Third Eye Blind song covered by Def Leppard. That's not good.

[Scott Bertram]

I. I really dislike Back in your Face, where they just glom onto the Gary Glitter stomp that. I did not like that.

[Jeff Blair]

That's the one that was my Big. I might have this big, like, black scratch through on my notes. That song sucks.

[Steve Singiser]

Only redeeming quality of that song is the savage bass at the start of it. After that it's. It's. Yeah, it's bad. It's real bad. All night sounds like an outcut from slang. And that's not a compliment. It's trying to be very sexy, but in a way that, you know, a guy driving an IROX Z with a mound of chest hair and a medallion is sexy. It's a little. It's a little. It's a little over the top. But yeah, it's that. It's the album that has those last little bits. And they've done things since. I think one of you. I don't remember who mentioned they did the covers album, which was a nice nod to their. To their influence. Influences. And I actually really like the one they did with the symphony because they really reimagined the songs.

[Scott Bertram]

It was.

[Steve Singiser]

It was a really honest and brave thing to take these classic rock songs and really make them more symphonic than rock.

[Jeff Blair]

Drastic symphonies. Right? So, like, this is the one, I have to admit, just, you know, fair play here. I really didn't listen to any of the stuff after Euphoria, with the one exception of this because Steve pointed it out in our run up to the show. He's like, yeah, they actually do some really interesting stuff. Stuff with us. So, yeah, it wasn't that bad, I have to say. Although, you know, at the end of the day, it's like you want to hear inter, you know, orchestral interpretations of your favorite band's music. These aren't my favorite bands, so it was a little bit different for me.

[Steve Singiser]

Yeah, right, sure. But I just like that. I like the courage of it. And they're still producing new stuff as recently as I think. 23 was their latest album, or 22, which is amazing in itself. A 40 year span, basically the same lineup, but Euphoria was the last time for people who went all the way back to Pyromania. It was like nostalgia now, which is sad because it's only 16 years, but it's like, ah, the good old days. And. And the two highlights by far are Paper Sign and Promises.

[Scott Bertram]

All right, well, you know, I think.

[Jeff Blair]

That brings us to the end, but I just want to say one, one thing before we go is that this show, this episode is like one of the reasons I love doing political beats. There's absolutely no reason I would have otherwise been inclined to revisit the discography of Def Leppard Were it not for you, Steve, I might have just treated them the same way. I think I had probably treated them since I was 7 years old as a remnant of the 80s and 90s, you know, like my young past wouldn't have given. Given them the do that they deserved. And that's what, that's why we do this. Because this has been a lot of fun.

[Steve Singiser]

You know, it's funny that you say that, Jeff, because when Scott reached out to me about it, my, my first comment was, you know, Scott, I don't know what your persuasive skills are, but I wish I had them when my kids were younger because now they're in their 20s. I, I don't parent anymore. But man, if you got Jeff to assign onto this one, your persuasive skills are second to none. Because I knew it was something big viscerally hair metal. And Jeff, do not. That's not a, that's not a. Not a common mesh point. And I.

[Jeff Blair]

But you know what? The thing is, I. Forced talk talk on Scott. So like we have to even the score somehow.

[Steve Singiser]

Absolutely fair is fair. And I would say I actually should condemn myself here because I shouldn't condemn Def Leppard being hair metal. They're so much better than that. The songcraft is so much better. We're not doing a political beats on Poison Reason over here. Sorry guys.

[Jeff Blair]

You still like that song on Skinny Bop, my friend? It just blows me away.

[Steve Singiser]

I, I do too. I hate to admit it, but it's my childhood anyway. But no, I, I think that that was. It is. That is the cool thing about this, right? And it was fun for me as a huge fan to go back over the last couple days and I just went song through song through the first eight albums and man, was that a kick. That was the highlight of my week.

[Jeff Blair]

You all right?

[Scott Bertram]

There we go, the political Beats. Look at the music and career of Def Leppard. Now, the part of the show where we give you the two albums you must own, the five songs you should hear from our featured band. Turn things over to Steve Singiser contributing. Former contributing editor, Daily Co is now over at the down ballot. Find him on X Stephensingiser. Steve, your two albums and your five songs, please.

[Steve Singiser]

I will be the first to admit I have revised my five songs about 65 times. But the two albums for me are a given. And I hate to be boring, but it's pyromania and it's hysteria. If you want to understand Def Leppard at its best, it's those two albums and. And there's a reason they sold, between the two of them, something like 22 million copies. Nothing wrong with some of the others, but by God, it's just. You'll have a lot more fun listening to those two because there's not a hiccup for the songs. If I'm introducing someone to Def Leppard, these aren't necessarily my five favorite songs. And I'm cheating a little, but I'll get to that in a minute. Photograph is my first song because for so many Def Leppard fans in America, that's our intro point. That's the entry point. And I'd love for someone to hear, okay, listen to this and understand why literally millions of kids got into this band band overnight. And that's my only pre Hysteria song, which is crazy to me because the first three albums are fantastic, but I had to have two from Hysteria. One is the title track, which I didn't even mention when we went through the album, but it is the first ballad, if you will, that they release as a single. I guess you could kind of say Bringing on the Heartbreak is, but it's not. It's a rock song. It's a song about love, but it's a rock song. Hysteria is a ballad beginning to end, and it is just beautiful. There's no other word for it. It's a beautiful song. But I have to go also on that album with love and affection for the reasons I stated earlier. That's everything I love about Def Leppard in one five minute song from beginning to end. Now, here's where I cheat a little and I apologize in advance. My next song is two steps behind. But dear listener, I want you to listen to both of them. Listen to the acoustic version, listen to the electric version, the. The classic version, if you will. And by God, don't tell me that these guys are not. You know, the songs are the thing. And the production obviously has gotten its due credit here. But don't tell me these guys can't make a song because there's two songs that feel totally different, but they both work and they're both the same song effectively. And last but not least, I'm going to put promises on there because if I put Paper Son, I'm pretty sure one of the two of you fly to California and beat me up. So I'm going to go with Promises off Euphoria because that was like the last. There it is. That's the Death Leopard I remember and love.

[Scott Bertram]

All right, my two albums are the obvious and the same as Steve. Pyromania and Hysteria songs in chronological order. I chose Bringing on the Heartbreak. That's always been a favorite of mine. It's the first time that we hear that Mutt Lang sound really take over a track from Pyromania. It's foolin. Then from Hysteria, Rocket who I don't think either one of you guys said a nice word about. That's okay. I still think it's the best track on Hysteria. I think it's a total Def Leppard song. And, man, I guess I'm only taking one from Hysteria. I'm really going through the years here. If we could pick a song from. From Adrenalize, Heaven is. Is the one that's close to that sound that Clark and Colin were able to achieve on Hysteria. And then, yes, Steve, I do have Paper sun on my list. That last moment that you heard a song, perhaps that really could stand alongside the classics from this band. Paper Sun's my fifth track. Jeff, over to you.

[Jeff Blair]

All right, well, you know, since you guys agreed on your two albums, I'm gonna have to be the oddball and I'm gonna give a different, different answer. Hysteria, obviously one of the top two for Def Leppard, but the other one is retroactive. It's the B sides and off cuttings compilation. You get to see them doing stuff that isn't so sanded into pop perfection the way Mutt Lang would have done for all their stuff. And. And because, you know, I always try to, like, increase my maximum spread. It's like, you know, you know, firing a pellet shotgun. I want to get as much spray potential. I'm going to choose five songs that aren't on any of those albums. Okay. So from the debut album from on through the Night, I'm going to pick Overture, which. Yeah, Froggy and. Yeah, yeah. You know, these people haven't quite figured out their virtues yet. Okay. Joe Elliott isn't forefronted in the song or anything like that, but I still think they knew how to put a piece together and it's really fun. Then from High and Dry, it's the title track from their debut album, on through the Night. I love that thing. I think it's really, really the best song of their early years era From Pyromania, which I didn't mention on my top two. Well, I'm gonna have to at least pick two songs to atone for that stage fright. It should have been a single. Don't understand why it wasn't a single. It's better than Photograph. It's better than every other song on the album, in fact, than fool it, which is my fourth track. That is just to me, if I'm gonna pick the quintessential Def Leppard song of all time, it would have to be the one, one that I did not realize for what, you know, the first 44 years of my life was a Def Leppard song. That thing is a hard rock perfection and I don't know if they ever topped it. And then, yeah, I'm gonna, you know, Scott and I agree on this one Paper Son from the later part of their career, from Euphoria, from the last, you know, kind of classic Def Leppard album. That one is just head and shoulders above everything they did after, in my opinion, after Hysteria. So those would be my five.

[Scott Bertram]

All right, there we are, the Political Beats. Look at the music and career of Def Leppard. Thanks to our friend Steve Singiser back for a second time. You can find his work over at the down ballot or find him on X. Stephen Singiser. I have no idea what we'll do next, but I'm sure it'll be fun. Steve, thanks for coming back.

[Steve Singiser]

It's been an absolute blast, guys. I enjoyed every minute of it.

[Scott Bertram]

And Jeff, as you, as you came to Def Leppard, hat in hand, not knowing much, it appears, I believe our next episode. That will be me. We will switch places and see how that goes.

[Jeff Blair]

Hey, hey, hey, Scott. Do you like airplane airports? Do you like films? Perhaps you'd like some music for them?

[Scott Bertram]

Well, we'll, we'll find out if I do very soon. In fact, find Jeff on x@ esoteric CD. I'm there at Scott Bertram. Remember to help us. Join us, support us. Patreon.com Politicalbeats for entry level, mid level and our best friend upper level Access. All the info is there at patreon.com/subscribe for new episodes. Apple Podcasts. Find us over at nationalreview.com we're on Facebook. We're also on X oiticalbeats. Join the Conversation there. This has been a presentation of National Review. This is Political Beats.