Loading summary
Transcript534 lines
- [00:00]
Scott Bertram
Foreign.
- [00:07]
Jeff Blair
Hello again everybody and welcome into another edition of Political Beats, a presentation of National Review. You can find us on X at PoliticalBeats. We're also on Facebook as well. We invite you to subscribe for our new episodes via our feed on Apple Podcasts or elsewhere. Plus, you find all the audio@nationalreview.com, click on Podcasts and you'll find us there. As well as other fantastic National Review audio. We direct you to our patreon page too. Patreon.com politicalbeats there you can support the show, help us stay ad free as we have been. There's entry level for supporting us and some voting privileges and a few posts here and there. Mid level gets you early access to all of our shows and the shows at a higher audio quality. And our upper level best friends, well, early access, higher audio quality. Also monthly exclusive content, episodes, remastered shows, playlists and more. All that can be found@patreon.com politicalbeats My name is Scott Bertram. You can find me on X. Scott Bertram, my tag team partner. Standing by as always, Jeff Blair. Jeff, how are you?
- [01:29]
Tim Constantine
I'm not so great, Scott. I gotta tell you, I. I don't know what happened. I got a fancy within me to roll myself away out of the city Looking across those high plains. I rolled myself deep into the mountains. It felt so good to me. Finally feeling free. And then I ran out of gas. I'm currently doing this from a Ramada Inn lounge in Rockford.
- [01:50]
Jeff Blair
Hey, not the worst place in the world to be, I'd say. Surprised how far you got to roll.
- [01:54]
Tim Constantine
Yourself in Chicago to find some mountains.
- [01:57]
Jeff Blair
Okay, at least a Galena is how far you got to go. Jeff is on X at Esoteric CD and we welcome our guest on today's program. Could not believe how long it had been since we had this initial conversation about the possibility of doing this show. You see him interviewing presidents and prime ministers on the Capitol Hill show out of Washington D.C. our guest today, though, got his broadcasting start in rock radio when he was just 13 years old. That's my kind of guy. He's Tim Constantine. You can find him on ximConstantine1, his website. Tim Constantine dot com. He's here with us today on Political Beats. Tim, thanks for joining us.
- [02:38]
Scott Bertram
Scott, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. I was just thinking when Jeff said that when I started in radio I was a little too tall and could have used a few pounds.
- [02:47]
Jeff Blair
And now you have neither of those problems, I assume.
- [02:51]
Scott Bertram
Correct. I've now shrunk and I could definitely lose a few pounds.
- [02:54]
Jeff Blair
Tim, before we get to our artist today, take a minute or two, tell people about your journey and about the Capitol Hill show and what you're doing in the industry.
- [03:04]
Scott Bertram
Sure. You know, it's funny you mentioned there, I started radio when I was 13, and that's true. My voice changed early and I loved the concept of broadcasting. Like so many of us. When I was like 8 or 10 years old, I set up my little faux radio station with a little, in those days, a tiny little cassette recorder and, you know, would create my own radio stuff. And so I had the opportunity. Here's the funny part though is my father was not thrilled when I went to radio, especially as a 13 year old. And I can hear him to this day saying, timothy, I really don't want you working in show business. And here we are all these years later, a long time ago, and somehow I'm still in broadcasting. So I'm sorry that I was a disappointment to dad. That's not true. He ended up pretty happy about it. But at the end, you know, we had to ignore the early parental advice to stay out of broadcasting in order to get to this point. But all those years, all the way from 13 through college, I worked in rock radio and paid a lot of the bills that way and but loved music from the get go. I got a little red transistor radio, those tiny little things about the size of a cell phone, except a lot thicker. When I was eight years old and I started buying 40 fives. When I was eight years old, I would save up my allowance and they were 69 cents when I first started buying, buying them. And then by the time I was 10 or 11, I graduated to albums, buying albums, LPs, and so, you know, I'm a big fan of vinyl because it's a wonderful memory from childhood. But for today's show, it's particularly fitting because I can tell you the exact instant that I remember recognizing Bob Seger. I was Nightmos came out in 76, at the end of 76 and in November of 76, I turned 12 years old and I was in the basement. We had a finished basement. It wasn't that fancy, but a rug in the basement of our house. And I was down there playing by myself. And on that transistor radio came Nightmost. And I remember thinking, wow, this is a cool song. As a 12 year old, I didn't understand the message. You know, I wasn't old enough to have the backseat memories yet. But I loved musically, I loved the Guitar. But I loved the organ in the background. I loved everything about it.
- [05:27]
Unknown Speaker
Working on a night move Trying to lose A awkward teenage move Working on a night move and it was summertime Sweet summertime summertime.
- [06:02]
Scott Bertram
And a day or two later, I said to mom, hey, I want to go to the record store. And I went and bought the 45 on Capitol Records for Night Moves. And Seeker quickly became my favorite artist. And that was almost 50 years ago, and he is still my favorite artist.
- [06:22]
Jeff Blair
It's. It's a great story, and it's great to have someone who was there as it happened. This is always a fabulous perspective to have on an artist when we have someone who was there, because Jeff and I, a little bit younger than you, although we were born in the middle of Seeger's career. And so having someone who was there as this unfolded is very exciting to have on the program today. Jeff, you want to say a little something about our artist today, Bob Seeger. Should I go first?
- [06:52]
Tim Constantine
You go first, actually. All right. So, Seer, add my thoughts after you're done.
- [06:57]
Jeff Blair
Seeger's a guy that's been on our list for quite a long time. And I mentioned I had talked to Tim, I think, as I looked five years ago at this point, five plus years ago at this point, about the possibility of coming out and doing Bob Seeger, and he's just one of those guys. And I think I said something very similar when it came to Mellencamp, but I think it's almost more true when it comes to Seeger. I think when you think about Bob Seeger, you think, oh, yeah, Night Moves and Against the Wind. I like a couple Seeger songs. And you start looking and you start digging in, and you realize the guys had two greatest hits albums, and if you put them on, you'd know every single song, and you know most of the words to every single song. And you've heard each of those songs 52,000 thousand times at some point on the radio over your lifetime, and you like a lot of them, and you might just not realize it or remember it for whatever reason.
- [07:53]
Unknown Speaker
I take my card in a standing light to make a buck I will go over top yes, the letters keep coming in May I work my back to this rack with fame the boss can't even recall my name I show up late and I'm dying Never fail feel like just another.
- [08:34]
Jeff Blair
And Seeger's, you know, influence in that way goes very deep because his. His career stretches, as we'll talk about, quite literally, from the early 1960s into the early 1970s into real critical and commercial success. And then of course, his only number one comes in the mid to late 1980s and still touring up until about six years ago when he had a goodbye tour. So this is a guy that often is the Midwest. Bruce Springsteen, sometimes Mellencamp gets that title too. But I think as we'll talk about, he kind of comes from a different place than those guys in terms of influences he was listening to. He's a Michigan guy, he's a Detroit guy that is very much attached to who he is, how he writes, and that hard working attitude and his ability to connect with listeners on a variety of levels has served him awfully well over the years.
- [09:36]
Unknown Speaker
I think I'm going to Kathmandu I think it's really where I'm going to hey, if I ever get outta here that's what I' on to do Catman do I think it's really where I'm off to hey, if I ever get out of here I'm on a cat man D I got no kick against a west coast Warner brother I such good ho I raise my whiskey glass Give them a toast I'm sure they know it's true I got no rap against southern states Every time that I've been there it's been great but now I'm leaving and I can't be late and to myself and true that's where I'm going to Catman Noodle really, really.
- [10:30]
Jeff Blair
Going to his live albums are very important. Jeff knows how much I dislike most live albums. But you can't tell the story of Bob Seger without talking about one, if not two, big important live albums. So we shall do that. And one of the intriguing things about Seeger as I pass this off to Jeff is some of his most interesting music is almost completely unavailable. Seger was very late to allow his music to be streamed in any way, shape or form. And even at this point, there are many albums of his that are not available on streaming services. You can find ripped copies on YouTube, maybe you find a couple copies in a used vinyl store, but they didn't sell a lot of copies at the time, so you might not find them yet. There's some awfully rewarding music available on those records. So there's perhaps more nooks and crannies than you might suspect initially suspect in the career of Bob Seger. But a really fun and I hope, interesting show awaits you.
- [11:43]
Unknown Speaker
There's the neon sky that I know.
- [11:48]
Tim Constantine
So well.
- [11:51]
Unknown Speaker
There'S the smoky room where I chose to Dwell though I hear your heart many miles away the neon sky tells me I must stay through.
- [12:21]
Tim Constantine
The windy feel hot Seeger city system has become the Bob Seger conspiracy to keep his music away from the ears of people. Boy, that is one of the most fascinating aspects of this guy's career. And in fact, I'm going to tell everybody right up front this one. Choosing Bob Seeger is. Is a shot in the dark that absolutely hit a bullseye. I remember when Scott suggested it to me, he was sort of cautious. He's like, yeah, you know, I got one other one we could do here. I know you're probably not gonna be a fan Bob Seeger and I. And I guess, you know, Scott knows my musical tastes really well, so he understands like, what I'm generally inclined to like. I understand why he thought Bob Seger might not be just cup of tea. It's sort of meat and potatoes. Rock and roll. But then again, Scott, you forget how big a fan I am of guys like Bruce Springsteen, you know, and he. Boy, Bruce Springsteen. There's a comparison we're going to be making a lot during this show because I think Seeger is in some ways a better Bruce Springsteen in terms of the themes that Bruce Springsteen wanted, like, developed into wanting to cover kind of like strengths from different eras and. But as it turns out, yeah, Seeker was great for me because he's a guy I've always known just from the radio hits. And Scott's right, that I sort of just dismissed him out of hand. It's as being just sort of there. The way, like you hear Carry On My Wayward Son by Chances, you know what I mean? Or Boston's Greatest Hits, right? You're gonna hear against the win every now and then when they take a pit, you know, they slow down the pace a bit for a breather. You're gonna hear a nice Bob Seeger ballad. You're gonna hear Hollywood Nights, quintessential radio. My quintessential radio memory with a guy like Bob Seeger was Hollywood Nights. And that one actually still hangs around for me. But, you know, I never really took him very seriously. He was a guy who was represented for most people as Bob Seeger's greatest hits. That picture that looks really like Photoshop with him standing in the middle of like rail, railroad tracks holding his guitar. And he's already old and a little bit chubby cheeked, right? That's old Bob Seeger singing like a rock. You know, I associated him with car commercials for Detroit. I associated him very unfortunately, which we'll talk about with the TV show Arrested Development. So I never really gave a lot of time to Bob Seeger. I knew about his early career because I was reading critics like Dave Marsh back in the day who couldn't stop Blathermouth. He's from Detroit. Dave Marsh. So obviously Seeger was an enormous hero to him. Along with a lot of other groups that really didn't deserve the hype like the MC5. And probably because I checked out the MC5 and I thought, well, these people are actually kind of garbage. I never gave much thought to like Bob Seeger. I assume that's more Dave Marsh favoritism. No, he was on to something.
- [15:18]
Unknown Speaker
Maybe you can feel their eyes declaring because you're different, because you're free, because you everything Deep down they wish they could be. You're looking back, they're looking back Too many people looking back they looking back they looking back Too many people looking back.
- [15:48]
Tim Constantine
Bob Seeger is a genuinely fascinating guy with a career that's really underappreciated. I think it may have declined earlier than some people suspect. It sort of became a formula a little bit too early on, but all the way. Oh well, we'll talk about this. You what you may think we're. But we'll argue about where the tail off comes. But his early career is fascinating. The years he took to find his voice is fascinating. His like full flower where he really puts it all together is very clearly the best music of his career. Really excited and completely underappreciated today. Outside of like the few radio hits. This guy had a real journey to success that is so immediately relatable that I'm really glad that we're gonna. We're gonna be able to tell this story. And I guess I've been a little bit surprised that it took so long to get here.
- [16:38]
Unknown Speaker
She stood there bright as the sun on that California coast He was a Midwestern boy on she looked at him with those soft eyes so when a sun and blue he knew right then he was too far from home he was too far from home. She took his hand and she led him along that golden beach they watched the waves tumble over the sand they drove for miles and miles of those twisting turning ropes Higher and higher and higher they climbed in those Hollywood nights in those Hollywood hill she was looking.
- [17:51]
Jeff Blair
Well let's not wait any longer then to. To begin. And again, this is an episode where we can rely lean on our guest to fill in some blanks. Because yes, Seeger's commercial success was. Was not early in his career by any stretch of the imagination. And in fact, his first, you know, major label release was nowhere near the start of his career. Tim Constantine, can you lead us through a little discussion of Bob Seger and Detroit and his music before that first major record, Ramblin Gamblin, man, which is where we'll start the meat of our conversation.
- [18:31]
Scott Bertram
Yeah. If you go back in time and I've heard Bob tell the story about his first band when he was in high school, and they called themselves the Decibels, and he laughs at it, you know, like we all do. We all. You know, I go back and I listen to an audio tape of what I did in radio when I was 15, and I'm entertained by it. You know, I'm glad I did it. It helped me get where I bet. Oh, my God. You're a little embarrassed.
- [18:55]
Tim Constantine
I once played with a band in college called Mycroft Holmes, Named after Sherlock Holmes, smarter brother. You can't get much more embarrassing than that.
- [19:03]
Scott Bertram
There you go. So, you know, even he recognizes, okay, look, I had a little growth to do on the front.
- [19:19]
Unknown Speaker
He rises every morning, but he don't look at the sun. He reaches in the corner where he keeps his loaded gun. Then he checks the firing action as he straps it to his chest. Lands an ambush for the mailman. Even though it's all in jail. He's here, he's there, he's everywhere. He's found a town and underground, unlike my friend Flicker, you know, he's not a man. He's persecution, persecution, persecution.
- [19:54]
Scott Bertram
But what's interesting when you talk about those early albums in particular, is you mentioned how he was trying to find himself, and we all are when we're in our 20s. You're trying to decipher, okay, what's the best thing here? What's the formula that works? Who am I? And what comes naturally and what's trying too hard. But when you hear, like Tales of Lucy Blue, when you hear the one that had rambling gambling man on it, ultimately that's really who Seeger turned out to be in great parts. So you saw flashes of who, but he didn't recognize it yet. So you have, you know, and then we go into a couple albums in there, you know, Noah, where and I, we don't know. Is it. Was that. I don't know, this. Did. Did Bob decide, all right, I'm going to do a stripped down version because James Taylor's doing really well, or did some record exec say, all right, we. We'll do another record for You. But we want you to do this acoustic thing because it's clearly not who he was. I listened to it because I like Bob, you know, I love Bob Seeger, but I don't go back with any frequency. I have that in the collection. And maybe once every four years I will go back for purposes of re. Edifying myself that I. I hear that, but it's not something I know and love and I'm going to listen to regularly. And I think of bands like Pink Floyd. You know, you can know the history of Pink Floyd, but you really probably don't go back and listen to Sid's album, Sid Barrett's album, all that much, because it's nothing like.
- [21:23]
Tim Constantine
Quite a lot.
- [21:24]
Scott Bertram
Well, forget the whole analogy. No, I was going to say it's very, very different, obviously, than what the masses took on with metal or with Dark side or with. And so some of those 60s albums of Seeger's are that way, that they're very, very different production values, different. But that's not what I'm talking about, the style of how he did what he did. But I'll tell you, there were some gems in there. And you go to Mongrel, for example, and mongrel was 1970, if I'm remembering correctly. And there's a song on there called Big River. And if you play Big river, stylistically, musically, the way it's broken down is very much built like what became Night Modes. It doesn't have the elaborate production, it doesn't have any of that, but it slowly builds. It's built around a framework or a skeleton of acoustic guitar, and then it builds up from there. It's a great song.
- [22:24]
Unknown Speaker
Good woman Love me hair can she live for one day Now I'm crying She'll love another Gotta go along Rest of the way.
- [22:53]
Scott Bertram
It just is under produced, you know, it's early, it's not quite there. It's an unpolished gem. Same thing with one of my favorite secret songs of all time off that album is Lucifer. And I mentioned I started started radio when I was 13. I was conscious at 13 that I wanted to make a career in broadcasting. And so I'm a sentimental fool and I was even then. So I played the very first song I ever played in radio was Lucifer, and I did that intentionally because I knew the audience had never heard it. Nobody'd ever heard of Lucifer, and it certainly wasn't on the radio station's playlist. But I thought, I will remember this for the rest of my life. So I chose that. I Wasn't gonna play whatever the pop song of the day was as my first song. So I played Lucifer, and I'm reasonably sure the program director later scolded me a little, and that was the end of the story.
- [23:49]
Unknown Speaker
Cruising on a grass neck till my dying day. Trippin out the hills a long Wasting time and drinking wine Drive a short night Living all I can do every day. You can call me Lucifer if you think I'm sure I know how good ever out of their house feel the mood of love Shouting goos and bad news and rolling with my door.
- [24:34]
Scott Bertram
That's a great song, but it's still. That album has its strengths. And then it's got a couple of weak spots in it. It wasn't all there yet, and so it wasn't until you and I will probably agree on this. Back in 72, I think we start to see who Seeger really was. But that was by picking and choosing some of those gems from the past and sticking them in there along with some new stuff.
- [24:57]
Tim Constantine
So that's the thing I want to focus on, though, for a second. So, you know, before we get too far into the. Into the future, I do want to dwell a little bit on these early albums in order. So these early singles, right. As Tim says, the one reason you don't want to spend too much time talking about them is we are about to hear them again later on and back in 72. The best of them. But the thing you need to really know about them, in my opinion. Scott, did you ever go back and listen to these early ones? Not just the ones on back in 72, obviously, but, like, have you ever listen to, like, the Ballad of the Yellow Berets and, like, the weird novelty songs like Socket to Me. Okay, there's stuff like that is like, you know, Socket to Me, sand, right? And then there's some good stuff. There's another one that he. That he didn't go back to, called Eastside Story, which is pretty cool, actually. It's pretty. Pretty nice, like, gritty, late 60s sound. But here's the thing, is that he's playing something that, to me, it was instantly familiar. For anybody who's ever listened to the box set Nuggets, this is Nuggets, kind of like. Like. Like, you know, local hard rock music. You know, like, every little town had its scene. Every big town had its scene. It wasn't just like New York City and la. It was like, what's going on in Albuquerque, New Mexico? Here's this Texas sound that you're going to get from, like, you know, you know, the Sir Douglas Quintet. Here's the stuff out of Chicago, here's the stuff out of Detroit. Actually kind of in the same genre as, like, think of Ted Nugent and, you know, like the Amboy Dukes, you know, and stuff like that. There you go. That's the scene that he was originally playing. It's sort of honest to goodness, meat and potatoes, hard rock.
- [26:24]
Scott Bertram
Some of real quickly, real, real quickly on that there. Alice Cooper put out an EP a couple of years ago called Breadcrumbs, and it was all. All old Detroit music. And he called Bob and he said, hey, I'd like to do one of your old songs. Can I? Is that okay with you? I want to put that on an ep. And Seeger said, yeah, you know, I figured he'd pull something off Night Moves or off one. No, no, no, no, no. He picked east side Story, the song you just said. And it's a great old run grunge rock and roll song from the 60s.
- [27:18]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [27:19]
Tim Constantine
I mean, it's. As I said, there's a really good quality, if you like that Nuggets kind of sound. This early stuff, I have this. It's obvious to me why Seeger doesn't want to hear it anymore, really. He's like, that's not who I am. It's like, I make Jackson Brown music these days. Right. Because that's really who Seeger evolved into. It's some sort of hybrid between Jackson Brown and Bruce Springsteen. And that songwriter, Levay. That's how I think of him. That's certainly how I think of his greatest hits. But when he's sort of like a local chart rocker, this stuff is really fun and silly, and the best of it will show up later on. That really takes us, I think. Scott, unless you have anything to say about these early signals, you want to introduce us to Ramblin Gamblin, man, Because this is the Bob Seeger system, they call it. The system, yeah. He has a band. It's a conceit. I don't know what it is. What it is is a bunch of kids doing their first album, and, boy, does it ever sound like it.
- [28:12]
Unknown Speaker
And over in the teacher's home she waited by the phone calls which never rang People who never sang Train Me and rambled Dusty in the Town and made his daily R TR love but he's right yes, he's right. The fog and misty morning.
- [28:52]
Tim Constantine
There's not much. I mean, we don't have to spend too much time on these three early records, really, but like, what do you think about them?
- [28:57]
Jeff Blair
Well, you know, Ramblin Gamblin man is 69. And as you say, it's. It's Bob Seeger System. And. And the reason really, you start here is because it does feature a song that many people are gonna. The title song, Ramblin Gamblin man, which shows up later on a live record and still gets played in many places in its original form, too, for a long time. And actually, if I'm honest, to this day, I still have to hesitate about three clicks before I figure out if I'm talking about Ramblin Gamblin man or Ramblin man from the Almonds or even Traveling man from Seeger. Later on they all get.
- [29:32]
Tim Constantine
Or if you know Bob Dylan, there's a rambling gambling willie. I mean, there's a lot of rambling and gambling going on in folk and rock these days.
- [29:38]
Jeff Blair
Right around this time. And it's a fun song. It's just like you said, you know, it's grazi. It has that insistent drumbeat in a real sense of. Of fun. Which Seeger often brings to his more uptempo tracks back in this era and in future eras, too.
- [29:52]
Unknown Speaker
So if you need some love and you need it right away. Take a little time out and maybe I'll stay But I got you.
- [30:26]
Jeff Blair
There's, you know, an anti war song that you wouldn't necessarily correlate with Bob Secret. And it's a pretty good one. Two plus two plus question.
- [30:34]
Tim Constantine
That's the one I think is also that really stands out. And again, has that very early, kind of grungy Seeger singles era sound.
- [30:40]
Jeff Blair
Yeah. And it's one that I actually used in my. I taught a course a couple of years ago.
- [30:45]
Tim Constantine
I remember this is the protest songs.
- [30:46]
Jeff Blair
Class songs of patriotism and protest. And this one popped up and, you know, the couple kids in the class who knew Seeger, like, this is. This is Bob Seeger. Like, yeah, this is Bob Seeger, 1969. Talking about, you know, his friend is buried in the mud of a foreign jungle land. And it's the rules and not the soldier that he finds the real enemy. It's a really strong, loud, angry that.
- [31:11]
Scott Bertram
I'm a young man.
- [31:12]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, yeah, direct protest song right here on Ramblin Gamblin Man.
- [31:24]
Unknown Speaker
And if I raise my hand in question, you just say that I'm a fool. Cause I got the gall to ask you can you maybe change the rules? Can you stand and call me upstart? Ask what answer can I find? I ain't Saying I'm a genius Two plus two is on my mind Two plus two is on my mind When I knew a man in high school Just the average friend the guy and he had himself a girlfriend and you made them say goodbye now he's buried in the mud of a foreign jungle land and this girl just sits and fries she just doesn't understand.
- [32:18]
Scott Bertram
So you.
- [32:18]
Tim Constantine
Say he died for freedom and by the way, you know what inspired him in that song? I have to guess, at least, because I'm telling you, this is another guy who's going to come up as a watchword when we're talking about early Bob Seeger. John Foger, absolutely fortunate son.
- [32:33]
Scott Bertram
Yes. Oh, yeah, absolutely. He would tell you that himself. He would tell you that himself.
- [32:37]
Tim Constantine
His voice. There are about 100 times in my notes where I'm just like, this is. This is. This is John Fogarty singing. To me, this is as if CCR never broke up. You know, thank God. Right. What were you saying, Tim?
- [32:47]
Scott Bertram
Him just. He would tell you that himself, that. That Fogarty was a big influence and. And when so obvious, there's a couple of Credence songs that he would tell you those are his favorite songs of all time. You know, when you talk to the artists that make music, I'm always fascinated what they like.
- [33:02]
Tim Constantine
I didn't know that, but it just makes all the sense in the world. Yeah, yeah.
- [33:07]
Scott Bertram
On Rambling Gambling Man. Last note is that originally came out on a smaller label and it was getting some. Some legs under it. It was making its way onto the top 100, getting airplay all over the country, but it was the song that never was because the record label went bankrupt. So that's. A lot of people don't realize that Seeker might have, if not for bad management at a record label of themselves, might have actually broken through in the late 60s, as opposed to having to wait until 1976 when he really broke Joke.
- [33:39]
Jeff Blair
Yeah. Yeah.
- [33:39]
Tim Constantine
It's kind of a shame that he didn't, because there's. I mean, he doesn't seem to think so, but I don't see any real discontinuity between early and late Seeger. I see an evolution, which is what makes him fascinating as an artist. But you know what? I could say the same thing about Genesis, the Prague rock group that, like, really ended in a different place than they began. It's an organic evolution. I mean, early Seeger sounds great. It doesn't sound like, oh, well, that's like baby photos. No, I mean, there are a lot of people, I think, listening to this episode that might say, well, actually, I prefer to hang out in his pre1976 era because this is where there's a lot of. A lot less refinement and. And a lot more energy. Which brings us, by the way, to the. The album that I think is going to make my top two at the end of the year. At the end of the show. This is clearly the best album of 1969. Best album of Bob Seeger's career. It's Noah. What do we want to make about this album? This album where he doesn't even sing half the songs they gave it to. Like, Tom Neem is the guy's name. I guess it's like a guy who kind of sounds and writes songs that are rockish, like Seegers. But this is just weird. We. It. There's one song on this record I think is good. It's the last song. It's called Death Row, that's a secretly cool hard rock classic that I just. No one will ever remember or talk about because it's at the end of an album that otherwise we can pass over without too much comment.
- [35:01]
Unknown Speaker
All my time's rolling slowly back 21 years old waiting on man turn to the tide Every minute Lord Every minute seems like mine and if it wasn't for the window I wonder if the world outside was alive yes Smoking cigarettes, drinking coffee Waiting on my last.
- [35:41]
Tim Constantine
As you can tell, the career is not a firm direction at this point. He doesn't quite know what he's doing.
- [35:46]
Jeff Blair
It's. It's the one album.
- [35:47]
Scott Bertram
No, I'm with you 100. I'm with you 100% on that. I, I, I. You will not find a bigger secret fan than me. But I will even say me. Let's just move on.
- [35:56]
Tim Constantine
Sky, you were saying that that's the.
- [35:57]
Jeff Blair
One album I understand he wants to disown. Right. That's that Neem takes it will never be reissued.
- [36:03]
Tim Constantine
I think it's what he said.
- [36:04]
Jeff Blair
Neem enters this vacuum. Seeger was kind of unsure about whether or not he wanted to continue in music, and Nim took over and wrote a lot of the songs, sang a lot of the songs. And yeah, the less said about it's not even really, truly a seeker record. So the less said about it, the better. Better.
- [36:21]
Tim Constantine
But the third one is the last of these, quote, early Bob Seeger system albums. This is the first one that's kind of really underrated, kind of an under the radar record. This is called Mongrel 1970. And it's really easy to pass over because all the famous stuff comes later. But I think maybe you shouldn't sleep on it because it's kind of got. Again has that early rock energy. Tim already spoke a lot about the best music on this.
- [36:43]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, Tim. Tim identified. If I can break in. Those are the two. Those are the two songs. I think there are portions on Mongrel where it's a hard drive on album for the most part. I think there are still portions very CCR and dated.
- [36:56]
Tim Constantine
There's a song. There's a song here that basically just rewrites the night. Time is the right time. I think it's Mongrel too is the one that's just that song with a harpsichord thrown on for some reason.
- [37:05]
Scott Bertram
Yeah.
- [37:16]
Unknown Speaker
And you have water birth Going to make you shake Going to make you shine Go to burn you Water make it swell water.
- [37:42]
Jeff Blair
I think there are some great stuff on there.
- [37:44]
Scott Bertram
Lucifer's fantastic. You know there's others. But evil. Edna. I love evil. But it. It's. There are a couple of weak spots on there that really interrupted what I mean by that.
- [37:55]
Tim Constantine
River Deep Mountain High does not work for some reason. It's Nick. It's nicked straight from Deep Purple's arrangement of the song from about a year before. You can tell who Seeker's listening to sounds a lot. Seeger's organ based sound with his band in a lot of ways is secretly dependent upon what he hears from John Lord. But man, his vocals is bad on that. It's like hysterically over the top. Almost like it's.
- [38:16]
Jeff Blair
That's the one point I wanted to make about Mongrel on a negative side is I still think he's trying to fit that vocal style to the songs. Like that is not that has not merged yet. There are portions in which he's sounding a lot like Fogerty. I think Lucifer has a very CCR sound. And then Tim also talked about Big river being one of these sort of more primitive ballad blueprints that he'll come back to. Those to me are the two key songs from this record. Big River, Lucifer. There's some interesting stuff, but everything is still. Or I should say not everything is coming together quite yet. Though it's an interesting stopping point in his career.
- [39:20]
Tim Constantine
It is funny. So like let's just move on. Bob Seeger literally overthrows the system from within. This man is clearly a revolutionary and it's a brand new morning. Okay. Because what happens next, we're talking about an artist who's searching for his identity and still hasn't found it yet.
- [39:36]
Scott Bertram
Yet.
- [39:37]
Tim Constantine
But at every stop of the way, just like Scott said, every stop of the way. Now he's doing something pretty interesting. Okay, this is acoustic folk.
- [39:45]
Jeff Blair
Bob.
- [39:45]
Tim Constantine
This is Bob Seeger as Neil Young. Okay. And if I were to tell you that Brand New Morning from 1971, an album that basically sounds like a series of demos, is the secret key to his career, would I be over, like over egging the pudding? I think this is the case because I think this is. This is the one where you actually find out this guy has real songwriterly ambitions.
- [40:06]
Unknown Speaker
Maybe today maybe today you'll find your love maybe tonight you'll find the one you're dreaming of maybe it's time maybe today you're gonna find your way Baby, maybe she's here maybe this is your day.
- [40:56]
Tim Constantine
He'S really not just writing a rock tune, good time, boogie woogie bop stuff. No, no, these are actually ballads and these are going to be ballads. This form, the lyrical content, the directness, and also the care and attention to structure and melody, that's going to be what Seeger becomes famous for. And in fact, sometimes my criticism later on is he retreats from this and this stuff that's a little bit more simple, probably a little more radio friendly, but not quite as interesting as a song like, I don't know, maybe Today, which is. Or sometimes, sometimes it's like something that Neil Young would have written or a really nicely well done solo piano ballad like, you know who you are. Brand new morning completely forgotten Kind of a surprising little island in the middle of the ocean there though.
- [41:46]
Unknown Speaker
Tell me that being free is not the key well that's easy, Too easy. Cuz when I saw you there with your eyes Everything we done we done before Somehow though it seemed to make a little more sense. It was such a close call. I think that's why I'm writing this at all. I'd call out your name loud I really don't think it would make any sense.
- [42:49]
Jeff Blair
I don't really love it out there. Side of the title track it is. I've seen both things sometimes. It says, I've read these were just intended as demos. The label released it without Seeger's approval.
- [43:04]
Tim Constantine
But yeah, I don't buy that it sounds too much. It sounds like too much work was put into these songs.
- [43:08]
Jeff Blair
I would agree. And plus he took them out and toured. Toured the songs too. He wasn't exactly hiding from them at the time and I didn't even know that. Yeah. And so I think the title track is really Good. I think that's the first song on the record. But it really. I mean, it's Seeger and an acoustic guitar. And that's all you have here. Right. And his vocals, obviously, Occasionally.
- [43:27]
Tim Constantine
Yeah, yeah.
- [43:28]
Jeff Blair
A little piano here and there, but, you know, not a ton. So this is, as Tim said earlier. You hear it and you put it on the shelf that it's there. And I'm not one to return to Brand New Morning very often at all.
- [43:39]
Unknown Speaker
Someone might be waiting get outside where you can see and you just might see yeah, you just might see that it's a brand new morning With a brand new sun and it's just as warm for you as it is for everyone don't just walk Come on, get it on get on the run It's a brand new morning It's a brand new day.
- [44:22]
Tim Constantine
Right. It's just.
- [44:23]
Scott Bertram
No, I have completed my collection. I have the entire catalog, but I do not need to make a frequent visit to it.
- [44:30]
Tim Constantine
Okay. Well, you know, the one I do think I actually have. And I'm going to return to a couple times. I'm surprised at how much I enjoy this next album, which, again, man, me in Theory was a treading water exercise. I don't think it's been reissued. It's impossible to find. This is Bob Seeger's covers album. It's called Smoking Ops. The OP stands for smoking other people's cigarettes. And, of course, because he's seeker and he still has these ambitions that are frustrated, he's smoking some of his own older ones, too. At the end of the album, he's covering a couple of his own songs, which we'll cover. But I gotta tell you, this band is good. I like these covers. I'm interested in Bo Diddley, man. There's no. No wonder that that opens. Not opens, but that. No wonder that makes it on to a line bullet later on, because it's a hot cover.
- [45:32]
Unknown Speaker
If that diamond ring don't shine I'm ever gonna take it to a pilot if that violet I can't see he gonna have to come and talk to.
- [45:48]
Scott Bertram
Me.
- [45:51]
Unknown Speaker
I say, hey, I won't feel it I had that phone.
- [46:09]
Tim Constantine
I just think it's also very amusing to hear him cover and Turn on your Love Light, which is a Grateful Dead standard. And I've heard it just done to death by them. I mean, like versions that run almost an hour long. Ridiculous things like that. How do you wrestle something like that into shape for a record? Well, I don't know. I don't know if you can really do it.
- [46:25]
Scott Bertram
It.
- [46:25]
Tim Constantine
It shows the limitations of this. But then there's stuff like Someday. A very pretty ballad I think was another, older cover of his. It almost sounds like it comes from it. And then they close with a song which is just one of the old single masters called Heavy Music, which is just a nice little groove, you know, and never went anywhere outside the, you know, the Detroit area charts. He doesn't even bother to re record it. And I think that is what he did at the time because he was just trying to get me across pitch. And that's why he's probably not fond of looking back on this stuff later on. But man, this is a really fun band stretching out on a lot of. A lot of fun cover songs and doing a fine job of it.
- [47:19]
Unknown Speaker
Come on baby, you don't have a good time. Don't you ever listen to the radio? When the big fat beat come I know you gotta dig it I know you can't stop Cause the bottom comes on too strong Talking about heavy music.
- [47:49]
Scott Bertram
Don'T you ever listen to the radio? When the big bad beat comes on It's. I do. I agree with you completely there. It's the. Musically, he is getting his feet under him. You're hearing I'm a sucker for that electric organ being mixed in with everything else. You got great, great drums.
- [48:04]
Tim Constantine
That's what I mean about like Deep Purple dead there, the John Lord organ.
- [48:08]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, they really have.
- [48:09]
Tim Constantine
They both have good organ sounds.
- [48:10]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, yeah.
- [48:11]
Scott Bertram
When I. I didn't actually get this album until about 1977 or 8, but I remember when I hear you just mentioned Turn on your love Light and the opening to that is just raw electric organ with nothing else. And being so fascinated by that. I'm like 14 years old thinking, oh my God, that's. That's fantastic.
- [48:28]
Jeff Blair
I'm.
- [48:29]
Scott Bertram
I don't realize. I'm seven years behind the times, you know, I'm like, oh my God, that's fantastic. What's going on? And it. I think this is a very important album from the standpoint of him getting his feet under himself, musically understanding who he was. And then as he wrote music, and he's such a great songwriter, writer, as he wrote music, being able to apply those musical skills to his own stuff.
- [49:13]
Unknown Speaker
Sam.
- [49:39]
Jeff Blair
This is actually one that I think that Seger likes. It was reissued on CD very briefly in the mid aughts. And so this was floating out there a bit. And as you guys know, he brought some of these songs back into live sets. I think he enjoyed this one I think he liked this one. And one reason is what sounds like he did. Yeah, one reason is I think he was able to get to a point where he acknowledged that it was okay to sort of blend in these very obvious influences into his own music. Like Bob Seeger could be this mix of what he brought to the table, plus these great influences that he loved. Like Let It Rock. Right. I think one of the key points is when Bob Seger decides Born to.
- [50:28]
Tim Constantine
Cover Chuck Berry, there's nothing wrong with him.
- [50:30]
Jeff Blair
One of the key points which happens around this time is that Seeger is now unafraid to embrace his inner child, Chuck Berry. Like, that is a big turning point in his career in his songwriting, that it's okay to embrace that sound, and perhaps not obliquely, but intentionally and obviously to embrace that sort of sound. So I think that's one of the things that this record did for him was to say that all these influences, all these songs, I like these songwriters that he enjoys. It's okay. It's okay to sound like those guys and then bring the Bob Seger special sauce to it, which you would do here very quickly.
- [51:53]
Scott Bertram
One of the little issues with that, one of the hearts of that is Punch Andrews, who is his manager and co produced many of these albums with him, or outright produced some of these early albums with him, is a huge fan of 50s rock and roll. Jeff, you mentioned that boogie woogie sound of the 50s.
- [52:10]
Tim Constantine
All Time Rock and roll, you mean?
- [52:12]
Jeff Blair
Yes, yes, yes.
- [52:13]
Scott Bertram
And so when you hear. On virtually every album, you will hear at least one song that harkens back to that, that has. Has, you know, that saxophone solo in the middle, but has that bebop beat has something that influence from the 50s music or from Chuck Berry. And that era of music is prevalent. But that's in great part thanks to Punch Anders.
- [52:36]
Tim Constantine
Yeah. And it works so well until it suddenly goes tragically wrong with a horizontal bop much later on down the line. That's the thing. There's such life and liveliness to these covers. The band is great. There's some songs that can't be saved. Like if I were a Carpenter has always been a terrible song. It was a terrible song on the Four Top. Made a single out of it. It's a terrible song now. But like, there are songs that I genuinely have never liked. Like Love the one you're with by Stephen Stills. I really like Bob Seeger's cover of it. I think Bob Seeger's cover of that song is superior for some reason. He doesn't sound like an. When he sings it. I guess that's the problem with Stephen Stills. You bleep me if you have to, but I mean, that's the truth. Is that like the Seeger makes it sound much more like personable and not like the rockstar jerk anthem that I've always thought of.
- [53:52]
Unknown Speaker
With the one you love.
- [54:21]
Scott Bertram
Well, have you met Stephen? Have you met Stephen Stills? Because you're not. So I heard.
- [54:25]
Tim Constantine
Well, no, that's exactly why I'm saying that. Believe me. We did. We did a three, three episode thing on Neil Young and Stephen Stills features heavily in it and his antics. Boy, I guess. Are we done talking about smoking Op, or can we talk about the song? The album, really, that comes just a year later that I think almost goes hand in hand with it. I think of these as like left hand, right hand. These are a bit there because this is his, like, it's not entirely originals, but for the most part it feels like now it's his statement. It's back in 72 and this is the one where everybody's just scratching their heads. I even tweeted about it the other day. I was just like, why God's name is this album out of print? This album is fantastic. You know what the hilarious thing about this album is? Is that its single most famous song might be its worst. All right, I will say the first thing I will say about back in 72, which is that this. The only reason people like might even casually know it is because where you find the studio version of Turn the Page, hey, guess what? Studio version is kind of bad.
- [55:24]
Scott Bertram
That is not true. You are. No, it's plots.
- [55:26]
Tim Constantine
I'm going to tell you right now, Tim, that the piano doesn't work. The thing just sort of plods along. The piano is recreated. And it's the. There's a reason the live Bullet. The Live Bullet version is. Is iconic for a reason. And I know exactly why I wanted to redo that. We'll talk about that album in a moment. But like everything else on pack in 72, including that song, which of course he recognized as a self written triumph, regardless of how I think it was record, this album is fantastic. Some of the covers here, there's a cover here. I don't want to take everything about. I want to let you guys talk. Back in 72 should have been called back in 68, but it's not. It's called back in 72 and it's a fantastic album. Scott. Tim, what do you think?
- [56:05]
Unknown Speaker
On a dusty stage many years ago, I chose My role old still, I hope you know Let the common day be the neon sky when we're walking to the sun, you and I. Yes, now he calls Beckons unto me from the empty halls, from the galleries and so I must go leave you here today. Cause the neon sky that.
- [57:14]
Scott Bertram
Well, back in 72, of course, is a little bit tongue and cheek because it's released in 73. So you're hearkening back back in 72. But it's. Musically, I think it's great. And unlike the other early albums, I will pull this one out. I happen to have that on vinyl, and I will pull this out and go back. I think the title cut back in 72 is a fantastic song, both lyrically and musically. I think I. It's magic to me. I love it.
- [57:58]
Unknown Speaker
On a holocaust that got me all up down on this seat. It was so hip and negative. So swear to try and believe when the waters clear. We learn Nothing. Back in 72. 72. 7 in 72.
- [58:37]
Scott Bertram
And then I. I would disagree with your assessment of Turn the Page. Of course, the live version is better. This is still a good tune. This is still a great tune on there. And then there's some great stories on here, like the song Rosalie is there. There was a music program director was a large Canadian radio station that used to be big fans of Seeger's music. He had trouble getting radio airplay in the late 60s and early 70s. But Rosalie up in Ontario was the program director. She used to play Seeger all the time. She made sure their station played Seeger all the time. And so that regional popularity of Detroit spread up into Canada as well. And so Rosalie, there's more to that story. And then there was a little appreciation in there for somebody who had helped him out, you know, somebody who recognized what he was doing. And so. But I think this is a huge turning point. And of course, it's the band that Tommy Cartnell on saxophone is Alto Reed. You know, you've starting to put the pieces together. Chris Campbell plays on that record. Alto reed plays on that record. You're starting to put the pieces of what would become the Secret Sauce.
- [59:50]
Tim Constantine
You want to hear something really hilarious? So, like, I heard the saxophone playing on Turn the Page, you know, and all that stuff.
- [59:55]
Scott Bertram
Stuff.
- [59:56]
Tim Constantine
And I thought to myself, well, this guy's just totally ripping off Steelers Wheel or Jerry Rafferty, you know, And I realized, wait a second, that's from 1980 or something like that. Ripped these guys up.
- [60:22]
Unknown Speaker
East of Omaha. You can listen to the engine moaning out. Is One old song. You can think about the woman or the girl you knew the night before, but your thoughts will soon be wandering the way they always do when you're riding 16 hours and there's nothing there to do and you don't feel much like riding. You just wish the trip was through.
- [61:06]
Tim Constantine
But it has that same sort of, that especially the live version has that dusky urban sound. The saxophone makes everything moodier. I have to admit, I love saxophone. When they add that, it really brings, brings the sound together, Scott.
- [61:18]
Scott Bertram
It does. It's, it's a magical piece there.
- [61:21]
Tim Constantine
Yeah.
- [61:21]
Jeff Blair
This is a kicking album. It's really good. There are three covers and none of them feel forced or, or out of place.
- [61:30]
Tim Constantine
Things to say about them. My God.
- [61:31]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, right? I mean, the, the free cover. Steeler is outstanding.
- [61:37]
Scott Bertram
Oh, yeah.
- [61:38]
Jeff Blair
You know, Rosalie, which, which Tim was just talking about. This album comes out six months or so after Exile. And that is a soul survivor riff if I ever heard one. The way the Stones close Exile on Main street, that's lifted maybe a little bit ferociously, but it works well. This is the first time you hear the Muscle Shoals group play on a record. And some misunderstanding that with the Muscle Shoals rhythm section. Apparently Seager thought they were going to charge him 1500 each side, which, hey, no problem, three grand we can pay that, that. And what they actually meant was 1500 a song. So they only play on three songs.
- [62:14]
Tim Constantine
Like a 45 sign, right, exactly.
- [62:17]
Jeff Blair
Playing three songs, but they make them count. And Rosalie's one of them. They fit in really well.
- [62:36]
Unknown Speaker
Rosalie, Rosalie, she's got the pleasant Comes from all the corners Corners of the world so fantastic. She's everybody's favorite little record girl. No music. No music to you.
- [63:09]
Jeff Blair
Tim's right about back in 72. Man, that is a tremendous song. And I think, you know, we'll talk more, or at least I will, about Seeger's lyrics the longer we go here. But there's an important couplet, I think, in back in 72, which is another sort of self referencing song like Turn the Page. He's telling the Seeger story here. All these local references about places he's been in, some in Michigan, some, some elsewhere. He says back in 72 it was so hip to be negative, so square to try to believe. And I, I, I'll explore this later on, but I think that's, that sentiment is actually one of the huge differences between Seeger and the other guys. Like Seeger, and even throwing, you know, Bruce into that mix like that couplet Is. Is one of the main differences. It's identified on the title track here on back in 72. I side with Jeff on this album version of Turn the Page. It is. It is weary, where the live version is almost angry about the situation. It's. It's far too bouncy in the chorus, which is what I think Jeff was getting at. Talking about the piano on this. On this version of it, it's certainly, you know, it's fine. But you can tell why he wanted to take another crack at it and did so on Live Bullet just a couple of years later. It is the difference between I want you to want me on in color and I want you to want me on at Budokan.
- [64:36]
Unknown Speaker
Oh, here I am on the road again There I am on the stage here. Here I go playing Star again There I go Turn the page.
- [65:04]
Jeff Blair
And we'll get deeper into that in a little bit. One other song I'll mention, then turn it over to Jeff, which is. So I wrote you a song. The second track on this record.
- [65:13]
Tim Constantine
This reminds me of. Wrote a song for everyone by Again, cc.
- [65:18]
Jeff Blair
This is evidence, you know, people's evidence. One that he really could pull off these ballads that are going to come later in his career that he would excel at later. This is really a beautiful song. Those key modulations coming in and out of the choruses. Well arranged backing vocals, which are really important to some of the big Seeger songs to come down the road. Really well arranged guitar lines. And vocally, Seeger going for it, trusted himself. And then this is one of those points where the song meets the vocals or the vocals meets the needs of the song. The way he holds that last word at the end of the song, it's really perfect. Really well done. First time. He really executes, really nails one of these ballads.
- [66:02]
Unknown Speaker
Somehow I've got to make them rhyme Got to make them belong oh, every time that you're here Every time that you're near Everything is real I'm no longer alone Think I found me a home and I think it's real.
- [66:42]
Tim Constantine
Okay, so it's funny, I have a version of this that actually tacks on those extra singles. And I'm realizing that isn't actually part of the original release. The original release, though, is something that looks forward and backwards. You talked about the COVID of the Stealer. I was just amazed that. That only it was a year or two after that song came out by Free. Here's Bob Seeger. So he's like listening to obscure British music from across the pond. Right. And then you have Midnight Rider, which sounds nothing at all like the original Almond Brothers Midnight Rider. So he took that again, very 1971, that song. He didn't want to do it over again. And then from that same era, this is the one that stuns me. I've Been Working, but Van Morrison. Now, I'm an enormous fan of Van Morrison. I will once again repeat my call to everyone. Please, please, we need a Van Morrison.
- [67:25]
Jeff Blair
It is our most requested episode by far, and we need a guest. So step up, someone.
- [67:31]
Tim Constantine
But here's the funniest thing.
- [67:32]
Jeff Blair
Thing I.
- [67:33]
Tim Constantine
This song comes from one of his weakest albums from. Certainly from his, like, classic era, which is his band in Street Choir. I've Been Working, though, is, like. There's, like, the one single on the album that everyone knows is Domino, right? Fine song. But here we have the only other good song, which is I've Been Working. It's just a blues groove. In fact, it's old for Van. He actually was doing it on Moon Dance. He never released that version. None of those versions matter anymore. Now that I have heard Bob Seeger doing I've Been Working, I never need to hear another cover of what was an absolute blues classic. And the funniest thing about it is that nobody sounds more authentic singing a song about working so hard all day, every day than Bob Seeger. He's coming into his own not just as his own lyricist, but the songs fit the Persona, too. That is a song about slaving your butt off every day, kicking it, doing everything you can just to get home to your. Your girl. Girl is going to make you feel better. And then, of course, it's typical Van Morrison. Woman, When I get home, I want some loving, you know? Man, woman, woman, woman, woman, woman. Yes. Okay, again, then originally wrote the sentiment, but Bob Seeger sounds perfect singing it as well, because both of them are taken after the old blues men. And you have to have a certain kind of authenticity in your voice to get away with that. I would sound ridiculous singing Woman, woman, woman, woman.
- [68:55]
Scott Bertram
You laugh at me.
- [68:56]
Tim Constantine
If I tried this photo on for size, at would laugh your butts off at it, right?
- [69:00]
Unknown Speaker
I said woman, woman, woman, woman, woman. Hey, come on. Woman, woman, woman, woman, woman, woman. A woman. All right, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right, right, all right.
- [69:31]
Tim Constantine
You got to sing like Bob Seeger. That actually brings us to something we really haven't focused on yet. This is an album that shows it off as well as anything else. We haven't talked about his voice this is a guy we. I mentioned it maybe in passing when I discussed how he owes so much to John Fogerty. But when I was a kid growing up, I thought of myself, I thought of John Fogerty and myself as a guy that nobody sounds like that. That is a unique and singular voice. And it's probably because I took Bo Seeker for granted. And also maybe because his later stuff isn't quite as strenuous. You know, his, you know, voices age after all, so maybe his, his bigger heads are not quite the same. But at this point it's like, as I said, CCR never broke up. And now Bob Seeger's carrying that same kind of torch, songwriting wise, as well as having a solid bed. And that voice, it's the continuity almost fascinates me now when I go back and revisit these albums. Back in 72 is a fantastic record. I think basically the only thing that lets it down is the final track I've got. It's a nice ballad. That's about it. I have no idea why this record is out of print.
- [70:54]
Unknown Speaker
Knit my feet was burning ground she stood on the corner Sexy as can be said hey, good looking, walk along with me and I said, yeah, oh yeah I'm your stealer Come to steal your love sun was shining.
- [71:25]
Tim Constantine
I agree.
- [71:25]
Scott Bertram
And I, I've been think I've been thinking that since, literally since the late 70s when everything exploded for Seeger. And I tracked down through one of my radio stations a copy of back in 72 so I could have it for myself. But why it didn't get reissued later when in, in the 80s when CDs come along. I'm thinking, okay, surely they'll put it out now. Nope. So I have no idea whether there's behind the scenes crack contractually something with capital. I don't know why, because musically it's an absolute treasure.
- [71:55]
Tim Constantine
It's a lot of people have theories, man. I don't know, I could float some myself. Scott, what were you saying?
- [72:00]
Jeff Blair
It's as simple as Seeger doesn't want to, he doesn't want, he doesn't like the way he sings on back in 72, which I think is fairly ridiculous. You can think is fairly ridiculous. But he's the guy that holds the key to, to, to, to re releasing. And I, you know, I, I, I, I mentioned this in our email thread. It's, it's a fine place to put it because this next album, seven also is awesome. Also. You can't find it, right? It's not, it's been released and it's.
- [72:26]
Tim Constantine
Like, oh, I was, this is my fault. Why is the next one also out of.
- [72:30]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, but, but I, I actually wrote, you know, does Seeger actually enjoy anything he recorded? I read all these interviews, I read all these interviews with Seeger where he's really hard on himself. And he doesn't like nine Tonight. And he thinks some of the lyrics are bad on even some of his biggest albums. And he thinks he's singing too high in his register on some of this stuff, which is why he keeps it out of print. And he doesn't think the Silver Bullet band was ever really as good after they lost their drummer.
- [72:56]
Tim Constantine
And like he said, jerks like me criticize him.
- [72:58]
Jeff Blair
Right.
- [72:58]
Tim Constantine
You know, he's too hard on himself.
- [73:00]
Jeff Blair
But I mean, as far as I can tell, and I read a lot about Seeger this past, you know, two, three weeks. The only reason these things are out of print is because Bob Seger doesn't want them around. He doesn't like the way he sounds. He doesn't like the finished product and doesn't want to make more available.
- [73:15]
Tim Constantine
I kind of respect the mule headedness of it, man. Man's not senile. Like he knows what he wants.
- [73:21]
Scott Bertram
Yeah.
- [73:21]
Tim Constantine
This is not like he's being taken advantage of. He's just, he's just got a mind about himself not to re release this stuff. I guess he's, he's probably made enough money. You know, he sold that like a rock song to every car company in the world.
- [73:33]
Scott Bertram
You know, that's what I was going to say is what's interesting with him. And this goes all the way back. It's one of the reasons he stayed in music, even though it took him a dozen years before he hit you, is it wasn't about the music. I, I mean it wasn't about the money. It was about the music.
- [73:47]
Tim Constantine
Music, right.
- [73:48]
Scott Bertram
It was never about the money. It was who he is. The music is who he is.
- [73:52]
Tim Constantine
So if he appreciated music, See, that's the thing. It's like maybe he doesn't need to make a lot of money off a reissuing back in 72, but boy, there are a lot of people out there who could stand to hear it. They could stand to hear that album, they could stand to hear this next one, seven, which is just on the dawn of what I think people will consider classic Seeger, that hits with the next record. But Seven Seven, man, this is a fantastic record. There's no, there's no question about the fact this should be in print. This should be Part of his legacy. And I guess in a lot of ways, some of its famous songs are. We're gonna get to what I think live Bullet was really meant to be in a moment. But I don't think seven should be forgotten. This thing opens with a bang with get out of Denver. Straight up, Chuck.
- [74:33]
Scott Bertram
Get out of Denver.
- [74:56]
Unknown Speaker
Preaching Southern funky school teacher she had a line on something heavy but we couldn't reach her we told her that we needed something that would get us going. She pulled out all she had and let's laid it on the counter showing all I had to do was lay my money down and pick it up the cops get busting in and then we let out in a pickup truck and go get out of Denver Better go, go get out of Denver Better go, get out of Denver Better go, go get out of Denver. Cause you look just like a commie and you might just be a member Better get out of Denver Better get out of Denver.
- [75:30]
Tim Constantine
Well, and I support Chuck Berry. Raver, a rocker. This is kind of like, you know what? I was complaining the other day when we did our Turnpike Troubadours episode about my problems with modern country rock, you know, where I feel like it all feels a little bit generic. And where's that boogie? Where's that shake? This one almost finds a groove between both of them. It's rock and roll, but it's got a country feel to it. Maybe it's something about getting out of Denver, of all places. I guess he ran out of things to do in Denver when he's dead. I don't know why he wants to leave the town as a really obscure movie callback right there. But the entire first side of the album is just. Just like five great songs. And then the second side opens with umc, which is secretly one of the things, best things he's ever written. I don't know if you guys love that one as much as I do, but there's something about the aspirations of UMC wanting to be a member of the upper middle class just makes me laugh. That thing hasn't even dated.
- [76:20]
Unknown Speaker
I want a pool to swim in Fancy suits to dress in some stocking GM and GE Another office in the city secretary pretty will take dictation on my knee I want a paid vacation don't want to have duration I thing with anyone but me and if there's war off and then promise I'll examine the details if they're on TV we tend to be liberal, but I should support the top as part of the umc.
- [77:16]
Scott Bertram
Yeah, It's. It's a beautiful piece because, you know, it's. It recognizes how society really is and yet it's a little tongue in cheek. It's mocking some of what is perceived as upper middle class, you know, and it's just. It's a great tune. Get out of Denver, I will tell you, is one of my favorite songs of all time. It's great on the live album, but it is great on the studio album. The pace at which he continues going, never takes a breath during the entire 3 minutes and 28 seconds or whatever it is, is. Is unbelievable. And it was one of my proudest moments as a young man is when I could actually sing every lyric all the way through that song. I keep pace everywhere. You didn't lose it because he is just going and going and going. There's so much energy.
- [77:59]
Jeff Blair
There's a lot of.
- [78:01]
Tim Constantine
There's a lot of amphetamine energy on this album. There's a song here called Cross of Gold. I listen to Cross of Gold and that is literally just might as well be Deep Purple and Rock from 1970. An outtake from that same sort of like organ driven, high octane energy stuff. This is the stuff that he. To do less and less of as his career goes on and gets more successful. So I guess he knew what he was doing. But boy, this is the stuff that I think I miss.
- [78:34]
Unknown Speaker
You can change the way you live. You can make it more. You can turn it up and down. You can change the things you.
- [78:57]
Jeff Blair
You mentioned things to do in Denver when you're dead. Which is the reason I actually know about the song, if I'm not mistaken.
- [79:03]
Tim Constantine
Does he know the soundtrack?
- [79:04]
Jeff Blair
I thought Blues Traveler did a cover of get out of Denver and I thought it was on that soundtrack. I might be misreading.
- [79:10]
Tim Constantine
Oh, that's amazing. I have never seen the film even so that's just why I thought.
- [79:13]
Jeff Blair
But yeah, the Bluestra Traveler version was the first one I heard and then got me interested in finding this, the. The Seeger original version, which is. Which is outstanding and a great lead off for seven. He's got a knack most of the time to picking off really great songs for leadoff tracks on these records. Seven's big for Seeger because it's the first time the Silver Bullet band is really together in any form. Charles Alan Martin on drums, Chris Campbell on base bass, alto reed on sax that forms the core. Drew Abbott plays guitar. And then they have a keyboardist that gets swapped out relatively quickly as well. But this is the first time that Silver Bullet band is playing in Hole. It's big because he got to open for Kiss on this tour, which. Which helped him to reach a new audience again. I think we need to stress too, Seger had huge regional appeal at this point. He was massive in Detroit. He could go anywhere in Detroit. And pretty much there was nobody in Chicago, right? Nobody in Chicago, which is, you know, whatever, miles away. And so it's just the way of the world back then, right? You were reliant on local radio stations and if you didn't get play, you weren't. You weren't happening. And so seven didn't, you know, didn't break nationally. He was still very much a regional act at this point. But this is another really good record. I think I like it just a little less than back in 72. But like Long song coming. That's such a fun song. The looseness of say the Faces or maybe the like later era. Mop the Hoople too.
- [80:44]
Tim Constantine
It is because it's about a concert experience. He's like, let's dance, let's get out of here. This song's going to go on forever, you know.
- [80:50]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, well, it's a little both. It works both ways, you know. I think the first line is about a politician about to make his speech. But yes, certainly you can. You could extend that metaphor. See it in. In the way of a crowd. Crowd saying hey, sounds like a long song coming. And we got better things to listen to. Right. It's really a really well written song. I enjoy that one a lot.
- [81:29]
Unknown Speaker
She started speaking a piece. I said stop, wait a minute please before you start talking. I wish it was. Listen to me. Cause the sounds like a long song coming. And those signs. All the things you might say. But it will be true.
- [81:59]
Jeff Blair
The first half of the record really rips. I mean school teacher is just super hard, super rough, very quick, very tough. And then the. The back half with all your love again has a. Has again to my ear a very Faces influence to it.
- [82:14]
Tim Constantine
Seen a lot of melon on it. Did you hear the Melatron on All your Love? That's like to me that's like a sweet spot of like stone Clumsy but kind of American roots rock that he's going for on these records. But yeah, I. I know Secret probably doesn't like these non trad looks into a sound before we put it all together, but I like the weird detours.
- [82:31]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [82:32]
Tim Constantine
Keyboards.
- [82:32]
Jeff Blair
Yeah. And there's a lot of really, really fine songs here, Tim. Anyway. Anything else, Tim?
- [82:39]
Tim Constantine
Anything else before?
- [82:40]
Scott Bertram
I think you're on it. No, you hit it. I was going to hit on long, so I'm coming too. You've covered that, you know, lady at the church bazaar and talking the same thing. You know, the woman's that fat lady. That is, you know, the volunteer at your local organization who has to hear herself get up and speak and nobody else really wants to hear it. It's the same as the politician who just keeps talking. It's a great song. Musically it's a great song too, but lyrically it's really strong.
- [83:09]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [83:10]
Tim Constantine
All right, well, I guess this brings us to 1975. And again, remember, I'm the guy who's not really super familiar with Seager's career. I'm coming to it as Mostly Fre. I know him as a greatest hits rocker and this one was always in print. I remember seeing it in the racks as a kid, but I don't remember looking at it. I was like, I don't know any of these songs, I guess. Well, I mean, none of these. These aren't as big hits. There's the Hollywood Nights where his night moves and against the Wind and all that. This one was an absolute revelation for me. I will tell you. 1975's Beautiful Loser is easily the best Bob Seger album of all time. It's the one where he immediately puts it all together. In my opinion. This is a song where the singles are, even though I didn't know them at the time, are among his best. Traveling man is one of my favorite Seeger songs easily. But even the songs that aren't singles are just wonderful. Sailing Nights is a lovely chorus. And maybe Seeker's vocals are ragged. Oh, mama. Okay, I have notes on all of these songs. These are all wonderful. This is his best paced album. This is an album where the ballads are equally, to me, as gripping as the rockers. This is the one where it all falls into place. And it's no wonder that live bullet, like, it's like half composed covers of like versions of these songs. Maybe you argue that they did it better live, but this on an album by album basis. This is where it happens for Bob Seeger. And this one was a wonderful surprise to me.
- [84:45]
Unknown Speaker
Night Go Racing, Dimming Light, Loneliness and oh, Too Familiar.
- [85:24]
Scott Bertram
You're absolutely right. I think Beautiful Loser was the turning point. It's. It's too easy to go back and you look at, you know, back in 72, you look at. Those are all pieces to the puzzle. But Beautiful Loser is where it all comes together and it's Great music. It's. It is the. The songs themselves, and you mentioned them, beautiful. Those are Traveling Men and so on are really good. But Seeger, I remember hearing an interview years ago with Seeger where he said, essentially, Live Bullet, which is what broke through on radio everywhere, all over the country. But Live Bullet to him was just Beautiful Loser, the live version of Beautiful Loser. Yeah. And he did see that literally every but It's. You're right, half of it was made up of those songs and the power and the punch of Traveling man and Beautiful Loser on Live Bullet or, you know, any of those songs as you move forward are. My only complaint with Beautiful Loser is it's almost a little too polished or a little too produced for what turn turns out to be some great raw energy rock and roll. And you hear that on Live Bullet, of course. But I'm with you 100%. These songs are good. Musically, they're good. Lyrics are good. Good. It's the coolest album cover of its time. I. I love it in that chair.
- [86:38]
Tim Constantine
And he looks like such a southern redneck, like, dressed up in his tuxedo. It's so great. With the long hair. Of course, that's the line he writes about. And turn the page. Or they look at that long hair hippie over there.
- [86:47]
Jeff Blair
Right?
- [86:47]
Tim Constantine
You know, yeah, yeah, but, but, yeah, but he looks like he just does not give a rip. It's very good.
- [86:52]
Unknown Speaker
Women have come, women have gone Everyone tries to Trying to cage me Some were so sweet I barely got free Others they only enraged me Sometimes at night I see their faces I feel the traces they've left on my soul those are the memories that make me a wealthy soul those are the memories that make me a wealthy soul Traveling man love when I can turn loose my hand Cause.
- [87:48]
Tim Constantine
Yeah, by the way. By the way. Sorry, what were you saying?
- [87:52]
Scott Bertram
No, go ahead, go ahead.
- [87:53]
Tim Constantine
Oh, no. The thing I want to point out about Beautiful Loser is that even that title track alone, with its title and its theme, it just solidifies something about the world where Bob Seeger is coming from. It's something that. I don't know. Don't know if we've actually spent enough time giving credit to. This guy's a guy who writes from a point of view. He doesn't just write clever hit songs. He's coming from this very real and felt kind of a working class perspective. Perspective. And again, you know, you. You hear hints of that. You heard hints of that as early as two plus two equals what? You know where it's talking about, like you know, hey, it ain't me fortunate son, don't look now, you know, that kind of a thing. But boy, the song.
- [88:31]
Scott Bertram
Yeah, Scott. Scott will appreciate this more than most, probably. But the magic of Beautiful Loser from a career perspective is it did not get a lot of radio airplay on commercial radio around the country. It did get a lot of airplay on college radio around the country. Now, in that day, they were little 10 watt stations that only covered the campus, but nonetheless, you were hitting the 18, 19, 20 year olds for the first time. They're hearing Seeger and they're thinking, wow, this is pretty cool. So that was the strangest thing is.
- [89:03]
Tim Constantine
Well, the thing is, Tim, the strangest thing about it is that they're hitting those kids with. With an album full of older man's regrets. And this is what I wanted to get at when I'm talking about the title of alone of the song Beautiful Loser. What is that song about? There's an anger behind that song, all right. He's talking about a guy who's just like the pleasures and depressions of never having to really try too hard for anything, just sort of coasting, just sort of like treading water, doing nothing, never getting too high above your station, never getting out there, never taking a chance.
- [89:32]
Jeff Blair
That's like.
- [89:33]
Tim Constantine
There's an anger that Seeger writes with which actually, it's no wonder Dave Marsh loved the guy because he's a real class figure. And this is what I mean when I say in 1975, Bob Seeger was already in the place prefiguring where Bruce Springsteen would later go. You think of Bruce Springsteen around the time of the river in Nebraska and born in the USA Bob Seager trot that path. I didn't realize this until recording this episode. Bob Seager was walking those roads long ago.
- [89:59]
Unknown Speaker
He'll never make any enemies. Enemies, no. He won't complain even if he's calling a feel. He'll always ask. He'll always say, please, beautiful R. Never take it all. Cause it's easier, faster when you fall. You just don't need it. You just don't need it all.
- [91:01]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, I think that's right. I'm a little surprised to hear Jeff make the claim it's his best album. Only because I think that Live Bullet improves on many of these performances. This is. This is the in color at Budokan.
- [91:15]
Tim Constantine
I was trying not to name Live Bullet as a. I have reasons for not naming Live Bullet as its best album. There's a reason.
- [91:21]
Jeff Blair
You'll tell me. You'll Tell us about that in a minute. But it's, it's actually, I, I'm, I'm of the opposite perspective as I am on that Cheap Trick question, which is, I think In Color is a great album, the way it stands, the way it's produced. I really love, Love, love love in Color and the stuff at Budokan is great too. But I do think that the live performances, the performances on Live Bullet, improve Katmandu, improve Traveling man and improve Nutbush City Limits. I like the album version of Beautiful Loser better, I'll say that. So that's one reason I don't put that up top. I want to make sure I say something before it gets stolen because no one's mentioned this song yet. And I think it's the most important song on the record. Jody Girl is an immense achievement, I think, in Seeker's career because it is. You know, a couple albums ago we had. I don't remember where Train man is. That's. No, it's on Rambling, Gambling. That's a long time ago. That's the first time you see this sort of, this, this character study. And if you listen to Judy Girl, you're going to laugh at me. Judy Girl is fountains of Wayne, 25 years in the past. Jody Guerrel is this very detailed, introspective look at this character that you're not. You maybe want to laugh at it first, but then you feel real bad, really bad for. And it's Bob seger at what, 20, 20, 27, 28 at this point, writing about something that is well beyond his years, years. This feeling of a middle aged woman who had wild times in college and this really handsome guy, this crazy boy who bought her flowers, high school sweetheart. And they get married and you're 15, 20 years down the line now and that initial burst has worn off. And as Seeger writes, you spend your time today watching the clock spin the hours away. Or later on when. And he says now you sit here on a cloudy afternoon watching soap operas on tv. Your old man's working, your kids are out playing, and you ain't feeling too free. Like all this promise, all this wonderful stuff that life has given you, seemingly a pretty darn good husband, kids, good life, and you still sort of feel unfulfilled for some reason. I am just so impressed by what he pulls off and how he marries that set of lyrics to just a wonderful melody. It's such a heartfelt song written by a guy that at least at this point, he probably didn't think was capable of Writing something quite like this, I think it's one of the most important songs in his entire catalog.
- [94:04]
Unknown Speaker
Now you sit here on a cloudy afternoon watching the soul soap opera on the tv. Your old man's working and your kids are out playing and you ain't feeling too free. You keep thinking back, thinking back to high school, those high school days. All the while wild, wild good times you had. All the boyfriends, boyfriends knocking at your door. Jody, girl, jump.
- [95:07]
Scott Bertram
It's a great example of what makes him so relatable, his song so relatable. Because it's easy to write a pop song where you fall in love. I don't mean it's easy that you and I can, but, you know, that's. Everybody falls in love at some point. Everybody can relate to that. But the things that tug at your heart springs the reality of life that everything isn't always rosy. He does this as well as any songwriter ever. He makes it, you know, even in. We talked about turn the podcast page when he's talking about being out there on the road. And he loves it when he's on. On that stage. But good Lord, man, you know, you're shaky. You're going in the restaurant and God knows what town, you're shaking off the cold. The people in there are making fun of you because you got long hair. That's the reality. Every rock and roller, the guys in Metallica said, jesus, that's a song I wish I wrote, you know, because they could all relate to it. And it's the same thing here, where these are real people. That's what the vast majority of people are having that midlife crisis at some point, thinking, well, what happened? You know? And he would revisit that same theme later on American Storm with the song the Ring.
- [96:11]
Jeff Blair
Yes.
- [96:12]
Scott Bertram
You know, the woman who got married. Same, same story, told differently. But that's the relatable part of Bob Seeger is some of them are joyful, some of them the memories and night moves. Everybody's had that little moment in the backseat where you're with your. You know, but it's something good, bad or otherwise that everybody can relate to. And I think you're right. That's what makes that song so special.
- [96:36]
Tim Constantine
Well, do you think it's time for us, speaking of turning the page, do you think it's time for us to turn our own little page to the moment where Bob Seeger goes national, finally breaks out? This is Live Bullet. This is, as you know, Tim already pointed out, yes, it's basically just beautiful Loser Live plus his greatest sits. And in fact, that's actually the way I would characterize it, as Bob Seeger's greatest hit hits. This is an album, live set, that was almost intentionally constructed to represent that. I think it does an utterly fantastic job of it. This band sounds amazing. This music is fantastic. I really only have one complaint about it, which is that I suspect that it's not even live. I think there. There may be like four actual live songs on this record. And the rest of this was either recorded in a studio or overdubbed to death. I'll talk about my theory about that in a little bit. But, like, it sounds like I'm harshing on the mellow of a fantastic record, the one that made him big. And when I say it's his greatest hits, the reason I say that is that I can. I could make an argument at the end of the day that live Bullet and his actual greatest hits album. Well, you have the Seeger span of his discography because this goes through not only his most recent stuff, but even his early singles, some of those come back. It's a really full retrospective of Bob Seger today. And it's really just a lot of fun, too.
- [97:56]
Unknown Speaker
Later in the evening as you lie awake in bed with the echoes from the amplifiers ringing in your head, you smoke the day's last cigarette Remembering what you said. Ah, here I am on the road again There I am up on the stage Here I go playing star again There I go, turn the page Ah, here I am.
- [98:50]
Scott Bertram
What do you guys think it is? It's great. It's written well. You know, it's recorded so well because it's. It's powerful.
- [98:58]
Tim Constantine
You know, when you listen, it was.
- [99:01]
Scott Bertram
No, I'm gonna disagree with you on that and I'll tell you why. Seeker has never made any bones about the. The errors he's made or the mistakes he's made or the things he did or didn't do. He's not somebody that you have to parse the world words. And what he will tell you about Live Bullet is the band at that point was playing at least 200 shows a year. I mean, these guys worked. They were on the road all the time. And he. He'll say it. We were as tight as we've ever been. They recorded two nights at Cobal hall and he said, we were as tight as we've ever been. And we got it. You know, we knew we've had a chance here to do something special. And we hit it. And then he'll tell you, there were a couple points where we had to touch up this or that.
- [99:46]
Tim Constantine
All right? But it was overdub because, man, I can hear those moments. I can hear that the ambience in the hall change, and that's when something is clearly being tacked on. It's just one of those. Yeah, but I spent my entire life listening to live albums. It's like something. I can't have dog ears when it comes to these things.
- [100:02]
Scott Bertram
I think you got to read. Read the tea leaves there, though, is when. When his point, when he says, you know, there's a couple of points because you. You're not flawless. You know, you don't do two and a half hours of flawless music. But his point was this was not a big pile of two hours of overdub. 90 minutes of overdub.
- [100:17]
Tim Constantine
Yeah, I'll take.
- [100:19]
Scott Bertram
They were that tight, you know, And. And I think that's the. The part you said this was intentionally put together as a greatest hits, and I agree with you. The problem at that point had been Segar was writing great music. He wasn't getting airplay. But wherever he played live, everybody said, oh, my God, this guy's the greatest. He does do a great live show. And so they were. They wanted to capture what he was able to do live and deliver that to the listener. And they did it.
- [100:45]
Unknown Speaker
As I told everybody last night, I was reading Rolling Stone where they said, detroit audiences are the greatest rock and roll audiences in the world. I thought to myself, shit, I've done that for 10 years. You better watch up on a pony, you're driving in the nut bus Better watch out for the police, baby Cruising out for the police.
- [101:39]
Tim Constantine
They did it. Because these are literally. I mean, I can maybe, you know, quibble here and there, but these are basically the definitive versions of all these songs.
- [101:46]
Scott Bertram
Absolutely.
- [101:47]
Unknown Speaker
Yeah.
- [101:48]
Tim Constantine
And that's why he's like, you're probably, you know, okay with letting the earlier stuff go out of print. He's like, yeah, yeah, we already did it as well as we're ever going to do it on Live Bullet. And he's not wrong about that. The thing is just. Just pretty thorough and perfect in that respect.
- [102:03]
Scott Bertram
When you hear, you know, that last tour when they did the. The farewell tour before Alto passed, then what you hear heard when you would hear rambling Gambling man, when you heard Travel, Man, a Beautiful Loser, were recreations of Live Bullet. They were true to the sound of Live Bullet.
- [102:21]
Jeff Blair
Right.
- [102:21]
Scott Bertram
As opposed to true to the sound of the original Recreation recording. And. And so clearly that's his preference. And My God, does this sound good?
- [103:00]
Unknown Speaker
Sometimes Tonight I see their faces I feel the traces they've left on my soul and those are the memories that make me wealthy Soul oh, tell you those are the memories that make me wealthy.
- [103:30]
Jeff Blair
Well, what do you know, Jeff? It's a live album I enjoy.
- [103:34]
Tim Constantine
Why? See, that's my theory.
- [103:36]
Jeff Blair
That's why. That's your biggest piece of evidence that it's been overdubbed is that I like it because I'm not a fan of live radio records. And. And look, just to back Tim a little bit, I guess. I mean, as I said, I've read a lot about Seeger these past few weeks, a lot of interviews. I haven't seen any sort of hint or any sort of suggestion, but your ears are. Your ears are gold.
- [103:55]
Tim Constantine
Never heard any out. Let's put it this way, nine tonight sounds real. And one way I'll know it is they can give you specific dates for each of those recordings. And I've also heard outtakes now, I've. I've looked for them. There are no outtakes from this I album. There are no alternates. There are no bonus tracks from the same run of shows. That tells me, I don't know, maybe they don't want people to find out how the thing originally hurt sounded. I think there are probably a few more overdubs on Live Bullet than you might think. And by the way, I don't hold it against them. Look, Seeger is a perfectionist, clearly, at this point. Why else would he be so willing to leave behind his early discography if it didn't, like, meet him? His, like, his standard of quality? I don't begrudge the man, like, you know, changing things. Genesis, Peter Gabriel, actually, it was, like, famous. He's like, you know, like, in theory, this is a live album, but in practice, I. I make no apologies for the fact that I want it to sound as perfect as it possibly can. And that's the same thing you get with live Boy and boy. If I turn out to be wrong and it's almost a virgin Simon Pure album, then I will happily eat my words, because either way, it's an enormous good time.
- [104:59]
Unknown Speaker
I hope this I'm sure going to need some my a moron I love and I got to run. I got to keep moving. Never going to slow down. You can have your funky world sing around. I got the Rambo I was.
- [105:33]
Jeff Blair
It's really good. Broke him nationally, but didn't make him a.
- [105:37]
Tim Constantine
You want to take us into the big one, Ascot?
- [105:39]
Jeff Blair
Let me do that. And. And just say, look, traveling man. He sings it like more of a scamp here. It's fun. That, that saxophone riff on Turn the Page is so searing. But there are great performances here and I. It's again, it's a live album that I enjoy. Live both Bullet's great. So Live Bullet released in April 76, and one of the reasons it was released is because he was having trouble finishing this song. This song he really wanted to put on the next album called Night Moves. And he couldn't finish the verses and so said, all right, go. Go ahead, release Live Bullet. I'll finish up this song. So Live Bullet hits and broke him nationally, but didn't make him a superstar. So Live bullet went to 34 on the charts. Very good. Much better than he had been previously doing on the charts, but didn't make him a superstar. It was going to take this very next album to do that. And that song, second best album, that song that he spent a little more time trying to finish, turned out to be the one that really did make him a superstar. As Night Moves went to number four. The song itself and Night Moves the album, an incredible accomplishment. Released just months after Live Bullet, Tim resident Bob Seeger guy, Night Moves is it his best.
- [106:55]
Scott Bertram
It is the greatest album in the history of recorded music. There you go. The verdict is in. I will tell you, and I say that my wife is tired of me saying this because she's heard it literally a thousand times. But when the song Night Moves comes on, that's my favorite song. And when the song Night Moves comes on on the radio or happens to pull up on my playlist in the car, then I will utter these words 100% of the time. You know, honey, this is the greatest song in the history of recorded music.
- [107:26]
Unknown Speaker
I woke last night to the sound of thunder how far off I sat and wondered Started humming a song from 1962. Ain't it funny how the night moves when you just don't seem to have as much to lose? Strange how the night moves with autumn closing in.
- [108:25]
Scott Bertram
I just. I love it.
- [108:26]
Jeff Blair
It's.
- [108:27]
Scott Bertram
It's. I have loved it since I first heard it. And it only gets better. It gets richer. It does. Does not age, but the whole. The whole album. You know, Jeff, you said earlier one of the albums Beautiful Loser was so well balanced. And I think that's one of the things that I like so much about Night Moves. You start out with rock and roll, never forgets. It just rips into you from the get go. The horn section in There, everything about it is just powerful rock and roll paying homage to old rock and roll at the same time creating something that in 1976 had never existed. You follow that up with Night Moves, greatest song in the history of the planet. And then Fire Down Below is just power, power, power all the way through the album. You know, Sunspot Baby, just a little bit different than anything.
- [109:09]
Tim Constantine
You didn't mention the best song on the album, Sunburst. It's easily, to me, by far my favorite song on Night Movies, which the.
- [109:17]
Jeff Blair
One that concludes side, which you will not be surprised. Jeff Seger doesn't like. He calls it bad, bad, bad poetry. He does not like side, Sunburst.
- [109:27]
Tim Constantine
It's the music. I almost care about the music.
- [109:58]
Unknown Speaker
He makes. His great escape Leaves them in his wake Without a warning the ritual is done A night no longer yours fades in the morning.
- [110:26]
Scott Bertram
I almost wonder if it isn't again, a little bit of an homage, intentional or otherwise, to turn the page. Because it is about that guy on stage and the adulation, all that goes with it. It's discreetly describing that whole. And then, of course, at the very end, as the sun goes down, you know, his night is finally over.
- [110:50]
Tim Constantine
But I'm betting, I just gotta tell you, I'm betting the reason Seeger doesn't like is because he doesn't like the flute. And he thinks the flute isn't very rocky anymore. That's the last time I'm using that on any one of my albums. But, I mean, I think it's fine because, you know me, I'm a Prague dork. I, I, I, I love that.
- [111:07]
Scott Bertram
But, you know, you go to the B, you go to the B side of the vinyl. I'm just in terms of balance, you know, I, I'm not spending too much time on any of these. But when, when you go to, you know, Ship of Fools, very different than everything else, you know, not necessarily the strong point, but it adds that balance and very good song.
- [111:27]
Unknown Speaker
So it went as we put out I was left in constant doubt Everything I asked about seemed private the captain strolled the bridge one night I stopped him in the evening light to ask him would it be all right to join him well, he stood there.
- [112:01]
Jeff Blair
Like.
- [112:02]
Unknown Speaker
Some idol and it listened like some temple and then it turned away.
- [112:16]
Scott Bertram
I think it's a great show.
- [112:18]
Tim Constantine
Ship of Fools had a lot of ground to cover with me because Ship of Fools by the Grateful Dead is one of their finest ever tunes. I think we even talked about it recently on a Patreon episode. So I Was like, well, this better be worth it because they're pirating an already great song. And it is. It's like, I think it's clearly the best song on SCI Tune.
- [112:35]
Scott Bertram
My opinion, I do not think much of Rolling Stone magazine in its current form, but in the 1970s and 1980s, Rolling Stone each week on Tuesdays in those days when new albums were released, would take a handful of the records and write a review. They almost never gave you a get either one star anywhere through five stars. And they would virtually never. They were very stingy on giving out five stars. This was the first time that Seeger got a five star rating on one of his albums and it was absolutely correct. It is a fantastic album. It's strong lyrically and strong musically. And here we are 50 years later and it stands the test of time.
- [113:15]
Jeff Blair
It's a fantastic record. I was last night, the day, you know, before we record this, I was out at a wood bat baseball summer league game here on the campus. And the in between music all night vary between these. This country, I'm guessing CD and someone had the Bob Seeger greatest hit cd and you know, mostly Night Movies Moves and. And Stranger in Town stuff that's a bit perfect. Little Baseball and Seeger man goes together like peanut butter and jelly. Night Moves works for a number of reasons. Songwriting super strong. The band, you know, Silver Bullet Band played so many shows. It sounds so good. A lot of Muscle Shoals on here too on side two as well. But Silver Bullet Band sounds fantastic. Each one of these songs has its own personality. I mean, it works as an album, Night Moves, but each song really has its own feel, its own personality. And that's why I think it's really successful too. You mentioned like Sunspot Baby, which has almost like this glammy T. Rex riff, which he hasn't really played around with before. Come to Papa, originally an Aunt People song which she recorded as Come to Come to Mama. Just like a year 18 months previous. Like Funky Bob Seeker. That works well too. Rock and Roll Never Forgets. So this is another reason why it works so well. Because nostalgia is such a powerful thing and Night Moves is filled with it. From Rock and Roll Never Forgets.
- [114:43]
Tim Constantine
Main street is all about nostalgia. It's about that girl he used to remember who looks so cute walking down the street. He never approached her, never said anything. But sometimes, years later, he just thinks about that moment, what might have been.
- [114:54]
Unknown Speaker
Well, I'd stand outside side of closing.
- [114:57]
Scott Bertram
Time.
- [115:00]
Unknown Speaker
Just to watch her walk on path Unlike all the other ladies she Looks so young and sweet she made her way along down that empty street down on Main street down on Main Street.
- [115:45]
Scott Bertram
You know what's funny is there's a line on the album that says, you know, sweet 16 turning 31, he's 31 years old when this album comes out. And to listen to those lyrics, if you do nothing else, you would think this is a middle aged man because he's reflecting on Night Moves when he was a teenager, on Main street when he was a young man seeing this girl. Rock and roll never forgets. They're all nostalgic songs that if you were 45 years old and going through your midlife crisis, you're revisiting all these things in your, your mind. How a 30 year old man wrote those lyrics is amazing.
- [116:18]
Tim Constantine
Well, that be even 30. Like maybe people aged quicker back then. You ever see those films? Like, you know, you know, every which way but loose. Like Clint Eastwood hanging around in bars. And these people are all like 33 year old and they have these big like beer bellies, like people aged hard back in the day in ways we don't really understand these days. But then again, like, you think of like Night Moves or Main street, the entire album just is suffused with that, that old man sensibility. This is what somebody was joking with me about is like Pete, you know, Pete Seeger, Bob Seeger. It doesn't make a ton of sense to you maybe if you're 17 years old, which is of course when I was first exposed to him, hearing him on the radio, I couldn't relate to any of this. You think I knew the first thing about Night Moves when I was 15 years old, friend. I mean, I remember, I'm not even gonna lie. I remember actually. First one time I was listening to that song at that time I was just like, kind of like, I can't relate to this because I was like a 12 year old dork or whatever it was, right? You only appreciate this stuff when you get older. And so he was selling in a strange way, not to the youth audience, which is why I was amused when I heard you say this is being played on college radio. I was like, this is not music for college kids, really, is it? I mean, this is music for people who've already lived and made mistakes and are looking back on their lives and they're not always been happy lives. Which is the other fun and interesting thing about Seeger as a writer. He's not selling, you know, like a happy story is he's just very gritty and Real world about all these minor dramas that he writes about.
- [118:09]
Unknown Speaker
All you got to do is get in into the M if you need a F, you can come back feel rock and roll Never forget ooh, the band still playing it loudly Listen to the guitar player making it scream all you got to do is just make that scene.
- [118:42]
Scott Bertram
Two quick stories of music from this album. That one of them. Mary Lou, last song on the album, right. And there's a. When he's singing Mary Lou in the background, there's One of the background singers is in a very deep voice. And in seventh grade, seventh grade music class, we had to do some sort of performance. We did not necessarily have to perform our own stuff, but we had to do something musical. And so a couple other guys and I lip synced Mary Lou and I would do. I had. I was the only kid in seventh grade whose voice had already changed. I was literally doing radio at the time. But they.
- [119:22]
Jeff Blair
They.
- [119:23]
Scott Bertram
Yeah, they would do that part and I would lean in Mary Lou. And everybody thought that was so great that all this kid could actually do the deep voice part. But Mary Lou was, you know, an obsc song to a bunch of seventh graders. To your point, Jeff, that was not the target audience, but they're all like, oh, my God, that's a great song. And when they heard it, they thought it was great.
- [119:43]
Unknown Speaker
Come back into town about a week ago Told me she was sorry that you heard me So I had a 55 phone and a two dollar bill the way she looked at that man gave me a chill My diamond ring struck my watching chain struck my keys on my Cadillac car jumped in my k drove aar struck my diamond rain she took everything Took the keys to my Cadillac car jumped in my Cadillac.
- [120:25]
Scott Bertram
Drove But the other one is just Scott. When you talked about rock and roll never forgets and how, you know, that's nostalgic and it's ageless in its wonder. And on that last tour, showing what a Seeger nerd I am, I saw him three times on that last tour, and one of them was in Nashville. And for the first song on the encore, who pops on stage but Kid Rock? And the two of them sang together. Rock and roll never forgets. And. And it was really fun to see, you know, the next generation singing with him. Kid Rock's a huge admirer. We'll talk more about that later. But huge admirer of Seeger both musically and personally. You know, he appreciates how he's conducted himself in life and. But it. To hear the two of them do that really drove home that it was an ageless song. This wasn't just is something from 1976. You got a guy who broke through in 99 or whatever, your kid rock broke through who thinks this is a great tune too. And then you hear younger generations as well. So I just. This album is. Has so much good, but there's not a throwaway track on there. Great album.
- [121:34]
Tim Constantine
Okay. And I think the thing to understand about it is that this is the last album he made before he became huge nationwide. Like live Bullet helped him break it out, but he obviously followed it up as a one, two punch with Nice Moves. And then from this point onward, now he makes music almost in reaction to that kind of success. Which brings us to the next record on this. Scott, do you. You have. You want to set up any thoughts initially about Stranger in Town? Which I think for a lot of people is like the quintessential Bob Seeger albums. The one I definitely remember for like when I'm flipping through my friend's parents record collection. Everybody had a copy of this one.
- [122:10]
Scott Bertram
It's a nice hair and a great leather jacket.
- [122:13]
Tim Constantine
Yeah, exactly. Is that iconic bearded face just looking back at you? Look the sinister little something looked very 80s even though it was already. It was only 1978.
- [122:22]
Jeff Blair
I'll make a point about that in a second. But there's a perfect segue thought about Stranger in Town. I wrote down when you've caught the car, what happens Right. Right when. When you. When you. When you. When you succeed, what happens next? That's the theme. If there was a. If nostalgia was kind of the Night Moves theme, the looking back, the Stranger in Town theme is, hey, you got what you wanted. What's it like? What happens.
- [122:46]
Tim Constantine
Bob Seeger goes to LA is basically what this is.
- [122:49]
Jeff Blair
But. But to Jeff's point, it's amazing when you look at Night Moves and Stranger in Town, how similar they are. Same looking cover, same kind of picture, same band mix, Half Silver Bullet, half Muscle Shoals. Same High Energy leadoff track, same Lower energy second track. They're sequenced in the similar manner. Very similar. Similar albums. And that's not to demean Stranger in Town because it was very like it.
- [123:16]
Tim Constantine
As much though you horned exactly in on what I have an issue with.
- [123:21]
Jeff Blair
So it's. It's a cut in my mind. It's. It's just a little cut below than. Than Night Moves, but it's. It. He tries to follow that formula, which was a very successful formula and was again on Stranger in Town. There is a lot of great stuff here. Hollywood Nights is one of the most inescapable, unavoidable songs of his career.
- [123:42]
Tim Constantine
Se. When I think of Bob Seger, the first song that comes to mind forever is going to be Hollywood Nights.
- [123:47]
Jeff Blair
That's just eternal, has tremendous momentum. It's the top.
- [123:51]
Tim Constantine
It's only one chord change. It has no variation. It's just that sequence. It shouldn't get away with that. That's actually my criticism. It's a little bit lazy, but you don't care because it has such momentum.
- [124:02]
Unknown Speaker
Night after night day after day it went on and on Then came that morning he woke up alone he spent all night staring down at the lights of LA Wondering if he could ever go home There was Hollywood nights in those Hollywood hills There was nothing so all right it was given chill in those high she was looking.
- [125:02]
Jeff Blair
It's such a perfect marriage.
- [125:03]
Scott Bertram
Percussion. Great percussion.
- [125:05]
Jeff Blair
And I, you know, I Again, to the theme of what happens when you caught the car. I this is 78. So this is almost like a sequel is we're bringing Bruce in all the time. Like a sequel to Born to Run. Meaning. All right, he headed west because he thought a change would do him good. What does he actually find when he gets out there? That's Hollywood Nights, right? That Born to Run. Gotta get, gotta get out of this place. Gotta go somewhere. All right, well, you ended up somewhere. What's it like? And that. That bleeds into still the Same. The second track where you have this wonderful look, man, if you look up mid tempo in the dictionary, there's a picture of still the Same, which is not a critique. It's just like that's exactly what a mid tempo rock track is supposed to sound like. And you have this amalgam of Hollywood characters that he has now met and how much he does dislikes them, how much he is turned off by the gambling, the risk taking, the need for sort of adrenaline, the looking for a high all the time. That's not Detroit, Michigan. Detroit, Michigan is go work for General Motors for 30 years. Go work for Ford 30 years. Put in an honest day's work. Go to the bar, go watch Seeger play. That's not what things are like when you've made it.
- [126:17]
Unknown Speaker
With you yesterday, moving game to game, no one standing in your way, turning on the charm long enough to get you back. You're still the same, you're still feeling.
- [126:52]
Tim Constantine
Scott, would you agree that he ends up writing one of his best ever songs based off that exact feeling? And I think you have already mentioned this one on political beats.
- [127:00]
Jeff Blair
Oh, yes. Go ahead.
- [127:02]
Tim Constantine
By far, the best song on Stranger in Town. And maybe you actually want to say something about what I just think is obviously the superior track. It's Feel Like a Number.
- [127:10]
Jeff Blair
Feel like a Number.
- [127:11]
Tim Constantine
Yeah, exactly what he means. Going out to Hollywood, he's just like, this place is wrong.
- [127:16]
Jeff Blair
Just say a couple things. Because, yeah, this. This just popped up on our exclusive content show about songs about work. But, yeah, this is. This is rock and Bob taking that Detroit sensibility to. To Hollywood, to, you know, to. To. To a success in the business and saying, man, I don't. I don't know if I like this at all. I feel like a spoke in a wheel I feel like a tiny blade of grass I'm a drone I'm just a file for the IRS I'm a cog in a machine. But again, I want to make this delineation going back to that couplet that I identified many albums ago. Then you know, the difference between Bob and Bruce. It was so hip to be negative, so square to try to believe. Feel like a number could be seen as a negative. And I think certainly he means it in that manner. Meaning this is what it feels like out here when you're not around friends, when you're not doing the thing you do every day. Every day. But. But the song itself is celebratory in a way, too. It's hopeful.
- [128:15]
Tim Constantine
It's one of his best riffs. Yeah, it's one of his best.
- [128:20]
Jeff Blair
But like, this we're all in this together vibe when he. When he. When he shouts out, I'm not a number. Damn it, I'm a man. Like, we're all in this together. This. It's. It's your lot in life is okay, because this thing you think is going to be better may not really be better whatsoever. Right? Maybe you're doing okay. Damn it, I'm a man. It's such a huge part of that song.
- [128:39]
Tim Constantine
The teachers.
- [128:39]
Unknown Speaker
I'm just another child down to the sea Going to shout out at the ocean it's me and I feel Feel like a number Feel like a number Feel like a stranger Stranger in this land I feel like a number I'm not a number I'm not a number. Give it. I'm a man. I said I'm a man.
- [129:31]
Scott Bertram
You know, earlier you talked about Jody Girl and the lyrics, and we talked in terms of how relatable some of life's challenges are and that everything isn't always rosy and good. And even though these songs are very different we see some of that when he talks about Hollywood nights and going out there and, you know, being a little overwhelmed by, you know, being taken in by some of it. And then. And all the way through to the end with the famous final scene, you know, and when you come home and you're defeated, but you don't necessarily acknowledge that to everybody. But you're dealing with it all on the inside all the way through the album. You're dealing with things. Some are good, some are not, some are challenging, some are not, you know, and, and, but everything is relatable. And I remember at the time when this came out in 78 and I was working at a radio station in 79, and we're still playing the songs off this album and having a conversation with someone there at the radio station about. I thought Bob Seeger was a great lyricist. They were saying, yes, but he's no Bob Dylan. I am not a Bob Dylan fan. So I'm insulted by this. And on one hand I'm thinking, yeah, you're right, he's not Bob Dylan. But they didn't mean it that way.
- [130:40]
Tim Constantine
Exactly.
- [130:40]
Scott Bertram
Right there they're telling me, no, no, Dylan is God, essentially. And I'm just disgusted that they cannot see what this guy has. But I'm also 14, turning 15 years old, even though I've been on radio for a couple years. So they're not taking me seriously. What could I possibly know about the strength of these lyrics? And I look back now, all these years later, and I think I was right. You know, as 14 year old, this guy could write a song and he still can. So when I look at all of those, I see the strength of the lyrics and how people can relate to them. I would say one thing you were talking about feels like a number being the best song on here. I'm going to disagree with you. I think Brave Strangers is the best song. I love the piano. The fact the piano is, is different than anything else. I think if it didn't have the exact same theme as Night Moves, they would have released it as a single. It would have been a huge hit because it was Night Moves. And you know, in a different version, it never got any attention. There's eventually a million years later they released a. A live version of it that they had. But, you know, it never got any attention. The most underrated song in Seeger's career, in my opinion.
- [131:48]
Unknown Speaker
We were lovers Just brave strangers as we fall and we tumble through the night we were players not a ranger and we jam till the dawn's early light Swimming in the big lake Taking it easy taking in it didn't need the real truth didn't need the meaning straight Every sign Every sign.
- [132:32]
Scott Bertram
The one thing I will note from Stranger in Town is you mentioned still the same. That was the lead single off this, the first single. And it set a pattern where if you knew Seger at the time, if you were familiar with the music at the time, he was a rocker. Rock and roll never forgets is what you thought of. But the singles were designed to try to expand that audience. They were radio friendly, they were not necessarily what he sounded like if he went to a concert. But still the same set the pattern of having that kind of country influenced mid tempo song like later it was Fire Lake or you know, it's against.
- [133:12]
Tim Constantine
The Wind for that matter.
- [133:13]
Scott Bertram
Right.
- [133:13]
Tim Constantine
And by the way, Tim, here, here's the funny thing, the funniest thing of all. This literally sets me up on a tee for my final point about this album, about Stranger in Town. And I think it may have been one of the things that biased me a little bit against Bob Seger. Because, you know, what song here does sound like classic rock? In fact, what kind of song immediately announced itself as oldies? It's the one track we haven't even talked about. You asked why wasn't Brave Strangers released as a single? There were a bunch of other singles already on this album we haven't even talked about. Old time rock and roll. It's the most famous Bob Seger song of all time, probably, right? We all remember Risky Business. We all remember Tom Cruise singing in his underwear with, you know, his glasses on. But this one is, I think, one that biased me against Bob Seager. Yeah, because it feels like it was made from the day it was born to be played on oldies radio. He announces it. Take those old records off the shelf. It is his. He is flying his flag. He is showing his allegiance like old time rock, rock and roll. And as fun a song as it is, it's even better actually on that live album that comes soon. It's a great song, it's a classic song. But it feels like it was born to age poorly simply because he casts itself in amber. I've always had a problem with this. Of all his big, big hits, this is probably the one that made me like not appreciate him for too long. Because he basically said, you know what? Here I am. I'm just a simple man. But he's much more complicated than that.
- [134:34]
Unknown Speaker
Just take those old records off and shout. I said, listen to him by Myself. Today's music ain't got the same song. I like that Old timer rock and roll. Don't try to take me to a disco. You never even get me out on the floor in 10 minutes I'll be late for the door. I like that old time of rock and roll. Still like that old timer rock and roll. That kind of music just SOS the soul. I reminisce about the days of old with that old timer.
- [135:21]
Jeff Blair
It's.
- [135:21]
Scott Bertram
It's funny the evolution of my thoughts on that song. Cuz when, when the album came out in 78, I play the album the very first time and I'm like, oh, that's a super cool old song. You know, you got the sax solo ripping it in the middle.
- [135:32]
Tim Constantine
Probably felt different in 1978 than it did. To me hearing it is like when 1988 as a kid, you know, different years, man.
- [135:39]
Scott Bertram
However, however, what happened was once and it was years later, it was, I don't know what year, 84 or something when the Tom Cruise movie came out. So it was years later that it broke through and. But what happened was then every lounge act in a America played that song and played it poorly. Just take those old records off the shelf.
- [136:01]
Tim Constantine
Actually not a single at the time I assumed it was.
- [136:04]
Scott Bertram
It was not a single. It was not a single.
- [136:06]
Tim Constantine
Okay, wait a second. I've been operating under a missile. Well, that's fascinating to me. I thought it was like the lead single for how could it not be that in Hollywood nights.
- [136:13]
Jeff Blair
No, no, still the same was the.
- [136:16]
Scott Bertram
First one out of the block. But old time rock and roll was not.
- [136:19]
Tim Constantine
This isn't even poor Bob's fault, man.
- [136:21]
Jeff Blair
And it's really not.
- [136:23]
Tim Constantine
I've been holding it against him all these years and it's Tom Cruz's fault.
- [136:26]
Jeff Blair
Well, it's really not Bo either because it's not his song. Two other guys wrote it and I.
- [136:32]
Tim Constantine
Know it's like it's a cover George.
- [136:34]
Jeff Blair
Jackson, but I mean, so he has no control. He. Well, he says he wrote the.
- [136:37]
Scott Bertram
Although he. Yeah, he says he never took any.
- [136:42]
Jeff Blair
Writing credit because he didn't take a. Because he didn't take a credit for it. He can't stop it from being used in all these places. He can't stop it from being used in commercials for vacuums or whatever the heck it's been used in over the years. So. So it's really even more so not his fault that old time rock and roll has become what Old time rock and roll.
- [137:00]
Tim Constantine
Scott, thank you for informing. I'D assume he just sold that to everybody on the face of the earth. Because you're right, it's in every advertisement. But this is the mistake. If you popularize a cover, man, that.
- [137:10]
Jeff Blair
Cover might get out of your hands.
- [137:16]
Unknown Speaker
That kind of music just soothes a soul. I reminisce about the days of old with that old timer rock and roll. That kind of music just soothes my soul.
- [137:38]
Scott Bertram
But it was, it was one of those in 78, I'm like, oh, this is a cool song. And then by 8, in the mid-80s, I hated the song and I never wanted to hear it. And then when I hear him do it live, then I'm like, oh, that's why I like the song. When I hear anything else, or even the original just is, it's okay, you know, I. But when I hear anybody else cover it, I don't care if they're famous or the local lounge act.
- [138:00]
Tim Constantine
I hear the local bar band doing that song, it just, like, leave the room. I just like. It's a nightmare. I've heard that happen many times, unfortunately, because, yeah, it's a pretty simple song. Scott well, any final thoughts on this?
- [138:12]
Jeff Blair
You want to move on two very quickly because we spend a lot of time, but I need to say that the famous final scene. Seeger's taken some swings at sort of closing his albums in a big statement kind of way. And I don't think necessarily it reminds.
- [138:28]
Tim Constantine
Me of the last resort is frankly.
- [138:29]
Jeff Blair
What it reminds me. I don't think it necessarily worked, but I do think famous Final scene works very well. It's a wonderful end to this record where it's a breakup, where quite literally, he's describing that last time you were in the same room together. Like, how do you, how do you leave. How do, how do you leave that room when you've stayed too long? When the relationship's over and you know it but like, little hug or wave goodbye like, how does that happen? Coming on so long you were just the last to know. It's a wonderful end to this record.
- [139:00]
Unknown Speaker
And how you tried to make it work. Did you really think it could how you tried to make it last? Did you really think it would? Like a guest, you stayed too long now it's finally time to leave yes, it's finally time to leave Take it calmly and serene it's the famous final scene.
- [139:55]
Jeff Blair
And then very quickly, man, we have to at least mention that we've got tonights on this record. I mean, goodness, this wonderful track. And I, I, we've got tonight of course, made even more famous by Kenny Rogers. I can't hate this song. It's so well written. It is.
- [140:14]
Tim Constantine
I can. I don't like it.
- [140:15]
Jeff Blair
It's okay. I. I think, you know that. That bridge, when he hits the. You know, I know it's late. I know you're weary. That, that gets me. Come on. That gets me every time. I think it's a fun song. I think it's a fine song.
- [140:27]
Scott Bertram
I think if you take it in context of its time, 1978, when it was released. Great, great song. I think, you know, it may or may not stand the test of time, but here's a interesting little tidbit for you. That was Bob Seeger's mother's favorite song of his.
- [140:43]
Tim Constantine
So what? We're not allowed to criticize?
- [140:46]
Scott Bertram
That's right.
- [140:47]
Tim Constantine
Okay, hands off, Scott, all right?
- [140:50]
Jeff Blair
Those are the rules. Well, if we're not going to critique, we've got tonight, maybe there are some critiques about the next Bob Seger album. His. His number one record, against the Win, released in 1980. And he's pretty upfront about the fact that that's what he wanted. This was an album that he pointed to the top of the charts. An album that he wanted to be pretty commercial. An album that he wanted. And he worked hard, you know, the album was stalled at number two for a couple of weeks, I think. And he. He went and told his manager, let's, let's play. Let's play everywhere we get. We gotta pump this thing. He really wanted that number one album, and he got it with against the Wind. The question is, of course, is the quality of against the Wind where it had been.
- [141:35]
Tim Constantine
Title is just fortunately a premonition, isn't it? He's working against the wind on this one.
- [141:51]
Unknown Speaker
Deadlines and commitments, what to leave in, what to leave out. Against the wind I'm still running against the wind. I'm older now, but still running against the wind well, I'm old and now I am still running against the wind against the wind still running.
- [142:34]
Tim Constantine
I. I just have a very quick thought about it. It's just so moderate mid tempo and frankly boring. Against the Wind is Night Moves. Same idea. Not quite. Same melody, same mood. It's good. It's okay. Fire Lake is good. It's okay. You'll accompany me, actually, is prob. Probably my favorite song on this record. It's kind of a. A nice little quick thing, but, man, it's like the formula falls apart here. They begin with a rocker, but this is a bad one. Horizontal Bop is a bad song. First time you can. Yeah, first time you can just not. It just clanks like a. Like, you know, like a spit. Rim it off a spittoon, man. It's not good. And, yeah, there's just a lot of stuff that's nice and generic. I bobbed my head, I listened to this thing three times, and I couldn't really tell you much about it, except for, again, the title track, which. You hear it on the radio and it's a kind of sort of a sad way to succeed, I guess, is the way I think about against the Wind.
- [143:28]
Jeff Blair
Marsh was very critical of against the Wind. I remember this fan and I betrayal to him. I'll also be a little critical. And then Tim, I'm sure, is going to tell us why we're totally wrong about this record. But for me, it's. It's. It's too smooth. There's too much Eagles influence. Glenn Fries on here, the longtime seeker friend. He plays on a bunch of stuff, but there's a lot of Eagles influence. Bill Simchik, who produced Eagle Stuff, produces a few things on this record. The rockers are utterly generic. I mean, Horizontal Bop is. Is filler and somehow was chosen as the leadoff song on this track. It's nothing more than. Than filler. Betty Lou's Getting Out Tonight. Right. Lyrically, it's weaker. Thematically, it doesn't have that core. The past couple of albums had against the Wind and Fire Lake. I mean, they're like. They're professional. They're well constructed. They don't stir the emotions the way that a great Seeger. At least my emotion. They'll stir my emotions the way that great Seeger songs do. I agree with Jeff. You'll Accompany Me. It might be my favorite track, and I like the way that it fills out as it goes. Like Seeger's gaining confidence, gaining certainty about everything as that song moves along both musically and lyrically. Like you'll Accompany Me. But by the end, he's like, no, no, no, you'll accompany me. Like, he's so much. It's. The confidence grows in that song. I like that about you'll Accompany Me, but there's so much here that just washes over you. For a number one record, it's just not. It's a step down. There's no doubt in my mind.
- [145:07]
Unknown Speaker
Someone tell the ladies Someone make a deal if we can find a house Someone better find a field Grass as good as carpet Any place is fine it's time to get to rocking and it's time to make it shine Tell them we'll be dancing Dancing till we drop it's time to get down and do the horizontal bop.
- [145:29]
Jeff Blair
Tim, why are we wrong?
- [145:30]
Scott Bertram
Well, the. The first single off this was. Was Fire Lake. So it. We've continued on now from still the Same, I said had that little country tinge to it. Fire Lake definitely has a country feel to it. And I remember at the time I was just going into high school, into my sophomore year of high school, as this album came out and. But had been working in radio for multiple years by then. So I'm. I'm excited when I know the record's coming out. Seeker's my favorite. I want to know what, you know, what's here and playing it and A liking it, but B, still having a sense of disappointment. And so I would not say. I think if you go back and look at the catalog now and we're looking at a dozen albums, you can go, well, yeah, it's commercially good, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But just listening to it in its time, in its moment when it came out then Fire Lake, I remember being perplexed and trying to figure out exactly what those lyrics meant. And you remember Uncle Joe. I'm like, what the hell is that? What is he about?
- [146:27]
Unknown Speaker
Talking.
- [146:27]
Scott Bertram
Talking about. Whereas virtually every song I had heard of Seegers before that, whether it was relatable to me or not, I could track it. I understood what he was saying. And I remember being perplexed by Fire Lake. Yeah, it's hell. Okay, I get it. I. But I. I'm not following the old three wheeler. What the hell are you talking about? I'm just not getting it, you know. And then against the Wind is. It's a. It's a great song, but it is not a great song in the. The man center of Night Moves or back in 72 or, you know, any of the things we've said are truly great. It's a great commercial song.
- [147:06]
Unknown Speaker
You remember Uncle Joe. He was the one afraid to cut the cake. Who Wants to Tell and Sarah Ch Run off by Jo.
- [147:38]
Scott Bertram
And that he would. You mentioned this is. He was clearly going and if you hear. I remember at the time it came out, Timothy White was big in Rolling Stone magazine. And he was also one of the only members of the media that Bob Seager was comfortable with. If you go back through time, Seeger never sought the spotlight on talk shows or in magazines or elsewhere. You didn't find him any of those places. His music and his concert were. Were how you found his albums and his concert were how you found Bob Seger. You didn't find him in other things. Things. So when I, I, I remember hearing the interview with Timothy White specifically because it was so rare to hear Bob Seger do an interview and him saying, no, we consciously went to a different sound. He knew that Night Moves and Stranger in Town had a particular sound, a particular feel, a particular approach, and they consciously wanted to change that. In later years, you know, 10 years, 20 years later, I heard a new interview with him where he said, yes, we went for a commercial sound. He didn't say that to Timothy White in 1980, but years later he said, we went for a commercial sound. And as you said, he was aiming for a number one. And he got it. He got it. So it, you know, I think there's some great music on there, some very good music. Let me be careful using the word great because we've used it with the other stuff. There's some very good music on there. But in the world of Seeger, it was kind of generic. And I think the best way to sum up it up was I had some friends who then in high school were just discovering Seeger. I'd been listening to him for what was then 30% of my life, but I've been listening to him for years. And so I'm putting this in perspective of now. Three or four albums that came out, plus the old stuff I'd been able to find at that time. And so I'm, I'm trying to put it in perspective there. But for a lot of my friends that were in high school, school, this is their first exposure to Seeker. And when they would listen to the album, I can't tell you how many of them said to me, all his music sounds the same.
- [149:39]
Tim Constantine
Yeah.
- [149:41]
Scott Bertram
Yeah. All those mid tempo songs sounded the same. They were good, but they all sounded the same and I understood that. I liked against the Wind. I still do like against the Wind, the song, it's a fine song, but, but it sounds a lot like the other songs on the album. There's not a whole lot going on there. So I'm with you on that. It's a good album. It's not a great album.
- [150:02]
Unknown Speaker
Accompany me. It's written down somewhere it's got to be high above me Flying wild and free oh, but someday lady, you'll accompany me Someday, lady, you'll accompany me Someday, lady, you'll accompany me where the river need the sound and see I feel it in my soul it's meant to be.
- [150:41]
Tim Constantine
Hey Tim, it's really funny, by the way, to put it in perspective, as a guy who's really kind of new to Seeger's discography outside of the greatest hits. I just. And I. And who is not new at all, by the way, to like, listening to artists in the context of their rise, their fall, their arc, their careers, their discography. I was literally. I got to against the win. I was like, ah, I guess it's over for Seager. We had that peak, we had that development. It would have made sense. You know, we had a little brief, you know, go golden ear and then you tail off. That's fine. That's life, right? And I'm so glad that I don't have to say that. But we'll leave that for a moment because I want to know if anybody has anything to say about the next live album he releases. Another. Call it Bob Seger's Greatest Hits Volume two. It's not Nine Tonight, and it comes exclusively from the last three albums. The big hit albums from Night Moves, Stranger in Town, and against the Wind. And by the way, this one actually sounds live. And I can tell because I can. I can hear. They found the venue dates for each of these things, and it sounds like they may have fixed something, but there was an actual audience in the room. Unlike Live Bullet. It's okay. I don't really have many thoughts about it. It is in no way the sort of definitive document of a period of Seeger's career in the way that Live Bullet was simply because the albums from this point, those three albums, you should just get those albums. But I don't know, maybe you think Nine Tonight is actually secretly the greatest record of his career. You guys have any thoughts on this before we move on to the next one?
- [152:05]
Scott Bertram
I think. I think you hit it on the button is, you know, I like the music. It's a good recording of all those.
- [152:12]
Tim Constantine
Are those two nice? There's that new song, Night and Night. It's a nice one. And they have that cover that.
- [152:17]
Scott Bertram
Time to live my life without you. I like Trying to live my Life. I love it. I love the orange section. I love everything about that song. But in general, the horn whole album is just. If I want to hear those songs, I go back to the original. So I. There's nothing wrong with the album, but it doesn't break any new ground. It doesn't do anything. It was cashing in. Capitol Records was cashing in. They knew Live Bullet was recognized as one of the great lives albums of all time. They knew Seager Was as hot as it could get right then. And so, hey, let's put out another. I always thought when at the end of his career on that last tour, that they should have had a live album and put it out as Last Bullet or the Final Bullet.
- [152:55]
Tim Constantine
Final Bullet. Right. Last bullet in the chamber. Scott, any thoughts before we move on?
- [153:00]
Jeff Blair
I don't like nine Tonight very much.
- [153:03]
Tim Constantine
For the reason that you don't like live albums. You can hear that crowd.
- [153:06]
Jeff Blair
The crowd is so much higher in the mix. But I just think some of the versions aren't as good. Like Hollywood Nights can't. It can't be as impactful. It is.
- [153:16]
Tim Constantine
I mean, that's a thing.
- [153:18]
Jeff Blair
And like, Main street has. Has that. That searing guitar riff which makes that song. It's a saxophone instead of guitar. And, like, that's not right. I don't want that. So there are little things like that here and there. I will say Trying to Live My Life without you was a single off this. Went to number five. And it's a cover. And Seeger said he did the song because the Eagles ripped it off for the long run melody. And he wanted to do the original on nine Tonight. And if you listen. They did like that.
- [153:49]
Scott Bertram
Yeah.
- [153:49]
Jeff Blair
Okay. They absolutely did. Eagle stole that. They sure did.
- [153:52]
Unknown Speaker
I had the worst reputation in town for chasing all the women around I thought changing my way of living was hard to do but it's nothing compared to the changes that you put me through I don't. Everything I tried to do but it's gonna take a miracle to get me over yout.
- [154:31]
Tim Constantine
Which, by the way, is the only good song on the long run, too, which is just sad.
- [154:35]
Scott Bertram
True.
- [154:36]
Jeff Blair
What? You're not a fan of Disco Strangler?
- [154:38]
Scott Bertram
Yeah.
- [154:40]
Tim Constantine
Or whatever that Timothy Schmidt song is. I can't even remember it now.
- [154:43]
Jeff Blair
I can't tell you why.
- [154:45]
Tim Constantine
Okay. It's okay. That's probably the second best anyways. We're not talking about the Eagles here. We've already done that episode. We don't really have too much to say about nine Tonight. It's adequate. You won't be disappointed. If you, like, live out, it's adequate. It isn't. It's not Live Bullet, which is like a live album. That is not just, like a mere discographical entry. We have another one here, which is what I was referring to earlier, which is not a mere discographic entry. This one is just. When you talk about career arcs, this is the one I didn't expect coming. I'm new to it. I've never Heard a single song on this record prior to the day. And some of these are big hit singles. They're all new to me, including the one that, that I've really come to Love, the distance. 1982 is the distance. It's almost like he took Dave Marsh's review to heart and he was like, I really disappointed my fan. This album is fantastic. It is by far, I guess it clearly at least his last great album. And I think it might even be one of my two favorite at the end. I'm not sure. I mean that. That's a. That's a difficult problem all of its own. But I really love everything about this album. It's one of the very rare, like, 80s albums. It feels very 80s in its production, but it doesn't suffocate underneath it. It really, from start to finish, man, this one is a bunch of little victories.
- [156:02]
Unknown Speaker
Might not sound like much. You put it on me like you'll.
- [156:06]
Jeff Blair
See.
- [156:11]
Unknown Speaker
Every hour you survive I will come to be a little bit blue and as you stronger.
- [156:30]
Scott Bertram
But Jimmy Iovine produced this and, and you can tell that if, you know he was the biggest producer, right?
- [156:35]
Tim Constantine
Bruce Springsteen's producer and Tom Petty as well, right?
- [156:39]
Scott Bertram
And it sounds like Jimmy Iovine record, but it's really good. Now, again, this is the third album in a row where the lead single, third studio album in a row where the lead single is a country 10 song. Shame on the Moon.
- [156:52]
Tim Constantine
This is a great one. I love this song. I think it's a fantastic cover.
- [156:56]
Scott Bertram
Do you know, I love the song, but it's very misleading because the rest of the album rocks. You know, when you start out with Even now, what I like about Even now is one, there's a lot of power, there's a lot of punch, but it's so optimistic, it's so exciting. And then you get in there, you know, making Thunderbirds, you know, it's. It's again upbeat, powerful, all of the. The just. It's a great album. I agree with you. 100. It's slightly overproduced in my opinion, but it's Seager returning to the rock and roll form, I think. Again, the wind was very commercial, was very mid tempo. All of a sudden we're back rocking again. So as a fan in the early 1980s, I'm listening this album come out and I'm, I'm. And again, at the time, I'm. I'm comparing it backwards to everything that's already out. And I'm like, yeah, we're back, man, we're back.
- [157:44]
Unknown Speaker
Everywhere it's all around comfort? Strangers, faces all around? Laughing right out loud. Hey, watch where you go? Step light on your toes? Cause until you've been beside a man? You don't know who we know.
- [158:35]
Jeff Blair
Man. I've got a lot to say about this. I don't want to. I don't want to steal all of things you guys want to say, all right? But. Yeah, man. And this is. But this is absolutely the last great Seeger record. And it's not. It's not. It's not Night Moves, but, you know, it's in the ballpark. It's pretty close. Production's great, which Tim mentioned the songs. The songwriting is so strong here, and it's definitely his strongest songwriting album in a little bit. Well, I guess really just talking about against the Wind, but it's. It's. It's super strong.
- [159:11]
Tim Constantine
Look, that felt like the end, though, man. I felt like it was an obvious decline. And now he still has one last, you know, big gas in the tank.
- [159:19]
Jeff Blair
Yeah. So you've got. You've got. I think the first three strong three songs are just outstanding. Even now is. Can stand alongside the best songs that Seager ever wrote and ever performed. It's better.
- [159:33]
Tim Constantine
It's a better song than Hollywood Nights. In fact, it has more ideas. There's more going on on that song. Hollywood Nights is a track in a great rhythm section, but Even now is a song. It's a great song.
- [159:44]
Jeff Blair
And it's got Roy Bitton playing piano from the East Band, which is such. Makes such a difference on. On. On that record. And it includes the couplet that. That Seager says define this entire album for him, which is. Out in the distance Always within reach There's a crossroad where all the victims meet that was his centering print support for this record.
- [160:05]
Unknown Speaker
There's a highway A lonesome stretch of grave it runs between us and takes me far away out in the distance Always within reach There's a crossroad where all the victims meet? I close my eyes, see her face it's all I want to see Deep inside it still amazes me Even now She's all that I want she's all that I need Even now She's giving it all she's giving it free Even now Now when everything's right when everything's wrong.
- [161:07]
Jeff Blair
And the next two. The next two songs again are. Jeff was. Was talking about, like, overcorrect. Not overcorrecting, but correcting to. To. To critiques of against the Wind, making Thunderbirds and Boomtown Blues are directly linking himself back to his audience, making Thunderbirds such a fun. Such a fun little riff. Such a fun track. Seeger worked for GM for a day and Ford for a couple weeks before he realized he was. He was killing his hands. He couldn't play guitar. He had to quit. And it's this, you know, it's the assembly line blues. It's a shuffle. It's, you know, 30 years ago we're making Thunderbirds, now we're getting laid off. Right. It's what people are going through in 1982 and 83 as the big three are struggling across the. Across the country. And then Boomtown Blues has this wonderful dirty riff. And lyrically, how insightful, right? This story about moving to the Sun Belt for a job and then missing home. Missing. Missing Michigan, really, if you're Bob Seeger, this is very real. Became the future.
- [162:08]
Tim Constantine
Yeah, this is demographic destiny here. I mean, he's writing about it in 1982. The lives of people that are invisible, in fact, to the elites. And they were all there telegraphed. If you were paying attention to Bob Seeger's lyrics.
- [162:23]
Unknown Speaker
No chilly in the air, no more to do. No change of seasons. The sky always seems so blue. Everything black and wind cold. All of a sudden I feel so. And it's cutting deep. You feeling restless, hard asleep. Look what you wear. Look, watching news stuck here in heaven with.
- [163:12]
Scott Bertram
Let me jump in on. On one more song there, and that's Roll Me Away. And I happen to ride. I ride all over the country. And so earlier we talked about Jody girl, or we're going to talk about the ring, or we talk where people can relate. And I said, this is one where he captures the magic. It's very hard if you ride a motorcycle. If other people ride, they understand. If you don't ride, it's pretty hard to capture. Capture a good description of the feeling when you're riding. Every year I ride from Florida to Maine, and I take a different. I don't go on the interstate. I go through the mountains and the back roads. And you just pick every. Any given day, where do I go? I want to go today. That freedom on the back of those two wheels is almost important to describe to people. And yet he does it perfectly in this song, if you don't ride. And you wonder why people do. Listen to Roll Me Away. Musically, it's so powerful, but lyrically it is tremendous.
- [164:07]
Tim Constantine
Hey, do you know what's even more powerful about Roll Me Away? It's not the way it's able to Depict the experience of writing. It's the way that it depicts the experience of heartbreak. All right. It is the lyric of that song that captures me. Okay. That woman that he's talking about, he has. He's on his own journey. I just got tired of things I rolled out of Mackinac City I stopped in a bar to have a beautiful. It's the girl he meets and what is it that she says? I too am lost I feel double crossed I'm sick of what's wrong and what's. We didn't say a word we just walked out we got on that bike, we rolled clean out of sight that's beautiful. A sentiment that's almost impossible to capture without, you know, falling into cliche or sounding stupid or whatever. But, man, it's a universal one. And that is what I mean when I say Roll Me Away is actually one of my favorite Bob Seger songs. And you're gonna laugh at this. I was not familiar with that. I'm familiar with a lot of Seager radioheads. I'd never heard of that one before. We did this episode. And I'm like, well, wow. This is like. It was a single. So, like, I, whatever reason, was living underneath a rock for not having heard it. What a beautiful lyric. And Match took great. The great popcorn. It's the great. The great production. The band is killing it. But it's the lyric, really, that brings a song like Roll Me Away home. It's so easy to muff something like that. It's so easy to write a cliche instead Bob Seeger found the truth of something in that.
- [165:29]
Unknown Speaker
12 hours out of Mackinaw City Stopped in a bar to have a brew Met a girl we had a few drinks and I told her what I decided to do she looked out the window a long, long moment and she looked into my eyes.
- [165:50]
Tim Constantine
She didn't have.
- [165:51]
Unknown Speaker
To say a thing I knew it. You was thinking roll Roll me away Won't you roll me away tonight I too have lost I built up a cross Now I'm sick of what's wrong and what's right we never even said a word we just walked out and got on that thing. And we roll and we roll Clean out of sight.
- [166:29]
Jeff Blair
Our friend Dan McLaughlin says the most American moment in music history is that verse stood out. Alone on a mountaintop Looking at the great divide could go east, could go west it was all up to me to decide just that I saw a young hawk fly in and my soul began to rise and pretty soon my heart's heart Was singing Roll Me Away, Perhaps America Red, White and blue. Right.
- [166:51]
Tim Constantine
Rock flag and eagle. That's what I'm thinking of.
- [166:53]
Unknown Speaker
Yes.
- [166:54]
Jeff Blair
The most American point of.
- [166:55]
Tim Constantine
Of this is what I mean when I say that the Distance is just a great record from start to finish. That really kind of like, again, a surprise to me. All of this music was new to me and boy, all of it was pretty much great. You guys have any other thoughts?
- [167:09]
Jeff Blair
You mentioned Little Victories.
- [167:10]
Scott Bertram
No, I'm with you 100%.
- [167:11]
Jeff Blair
Yeah. Little victories is great. Well, you alluded to it early and Coming Home is a great track. I really like Coming Home, which again, I think is. Is. Is such a great lyric. Guy who's left. It actually reminds me of some of the turnpike Troubadour songs we were just talking about.
- [167:27]
Scott Bertram
Yeah, you won't say you lost it all. Yeah, it's just. It's. Oh, my God. That's a great lyric.
- [167:31]
Jeff Blair
Left your hometown for the city lights when you were young and you were strong and you've been gone 10 years now and you're embarrassed to be coming home and you don't want to tell them why they're. While you're coming back and it's because you lost everything. You have to come back, get nowhere to go. And they say how long you going to stay? You say, I don't know. Because you got nowhere to know where. Nowhere to go. Coming Home is a really, really good track, too. Surprised by how good the distance is, especially coming off of against the Wind. But yeah, the last great Seeger album for sure. And not damning with faint price. It is a great Seeger album. Absolutely.
- [168:05]
Unknown Speaker
Lots of traffic, lots of sleepless nights. Lots of dreams that all are wrong. You just tell them what they want to hear. How you took the place by stone. You won't tell how you lost it all. You just say you're coming home. Coming home. You grew tired of being alone.
- [169:00]
Tim Constantine
Well, what do we want to do now? Because Bob Seeger takes the next four years off. I don't know the story behind it, you know, maybe Tim does, because I don't know why it took him four years to come out with his next album. But of course, this is the point for me where Bob Seeger becomes an ad man. Because Like A Rock, if you know anything about popular television, Like A Rock is a song that's featured in every car commercial, Chevy trucks, and I think is the one. But it became. Became sort of a pop. It became a symbol for me of corporate rock. And as strange as it is to think Bob Seeger. Authentic working class Bob Seeger. Bob Seeger became associated with corporate rock with me. Like, you know, the worst way you would think of Budweiser singing, like, Steve Wynwood songs and stuff like that. I thought of Bob Seger as similarly corporate just because of that one song. Like Iraq, it sells trucks. It was featured in Arrested Development as a joke about Saddam Hussein and Iraq, which. Boy, you'd have seen the show to appreciate this. No, no, like a. Like a rock was used to brilliant effect in Arrested Development. And again, that probably poisoned the well for me in a way as well. But I have to admit, I just went back for the first time in 25 years. It must be for the first time I listened to that song again. I'm like, yeah, it's okay. It's actually a very good song.
- [170:21]
Jeff Blair
It's so hard to hear anything but a truck when you hear that. I mean, it's just so hard.
- [170:25]
Tim Constantine
So hard to hear it past the cliche anymore. Right, I know, but there's a good song underneath it. We just can't get to it now.
- [170:33]
Unknown Speaker
Sometimes late at night oh, when I'm bathed in the firelight the moon comes calling a ghostly way and I recall I recall Like a rock standing arrow straight Like a rock charging from the gate Like a rock carrying the weight Like a rock the sun upon my skin Like a rock Hard against the wind Like a R. You know, to.
- [171:31]
Scott Bertram
Your question about the four years, is the. The middle 80s there, if you will? You have to remember the. The buildup when you had night move stranger in town against the wind you now have. Seeger is literally as big as it gets. You know, he sold tens of millions of. Of albums. He's recognized everywhere even now. You know, the. The. The distance comes out and continues that. So he's as big as it gets. And. And it was not necessarily if. And this is what Seeger would tell you. Not necessarily on the personal level. His favorite time, though. We all go through ups and downs in life, and when you get to the mid-80s, I can imagine the pressure.
- [172:12]
Tim Constantine
Just being diamond formation level.
- [172:14]
Scott Bertram
A whole different. Yeah, it's. It's. You know, Scott, you said earlier what happens when you catch the car, you know, when the dog is chasing the car, that's one thing. And so now you got to stay there. His. His life had been a description of stability up to then and in many ways still is to this day. And he had the worst in the road in the 80s. He had a girlfriend that he'd had for like 12 or 13 years before he was ever famous. But then they hit a rough patch once that fame, not by anybody's fault, just life changed. And so after 13 years he and Jan broke up or there were different things that went on. And I think it was a conscious effort to step away and just think, you know what we. I gotta, I gotta get settled here. But a little while after, I. I won't get the timing right. Maybe a year after he broke up that 13 year relationship, he got married to someone. Which was really strange that you're with someone for 13 years, you don't get married, you meet someone and after eight months or a year, you and get married and. But that only lasted about a year. So those middle 80 years were not necessarily. If you were to ask him, hey, what's your favorite part of life? I'm sure he'd tell you his Juanita, his wife and his children. He would most certainly not say 1985 or 6 in that timeline.
- [173:28]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [173:28]
Scott Bertram
So when, when the, the Like a Rock album came around. Yeah, I'm enthused. I'm now in, in I think my last year of college. When that came out. I'm excited. Oh, we finally got some new songs, secret material. And it's good, but not great.
- [173:55]
Unknown Speaker
It's like a full force, an American song. You bury beneath the mountain of cold and you never get warm. It's like a wall of m. You charge your map full speed. You cover up, you hear the shattering light, but you never bleed, you never feel the need.
- [174:28]
Scott Bertram
You know. And at the time, Like A Rock wasn't immediately released as a single. I mean as a commercial item that took a couple years down the road. So at the time I liked the song, but I'm like you. It's. I've. I've heard it more than I need to now. It's not that it's a bad song. I just really don't need to hear it again right away because I heard it a gazillion times on Chevy. Here's an interesting note on that is in the mid-80s, I heard again a Timothy White Rolling Stone interview with Seeger where they asked him about that. They said, gosh, we don't hear at that time. This is like maybe 1984 or something. @ that time they said to him, we don't hear any of your music commercially. And he, at the time, he said, yes, I've made that conscious choice. I get approached all the time. And he specifically mentioned in that interview even by Ford Motors, that I get approached all the Time. And I've chosen not to because I don't want to align myself with any particular product. And then he talked about that was the beginning. Beginning. This is standard fare today, but the mid-80s were the beginning of sponsors for tours. And I remember him telling the story then that Ford in particular had said they wanted everything, of course to start. But he said at the end it boiled down to they would give him a million dollars, which was big money at that time, to simply put a Ford banner up behind the stage at every concert on that tour. And he said no and made that conscious decision not to be aligned with anything. So it's interesting that five years later, seven years later, whatever it was, when they not even like a rock to General Motors, probably $10 million, they tripled the truck. Well, someone asked him that and said, you know, gosh, why have you chosen? And his. His reasoning, whether it was accurate or not, was simply, well, you know, I like to support. It's a hometown industry for me. And I like to support the hometown town industry. And then years later, in the early 2000s, he said something about how, you know, he had no idea obviously that it would go. It ran for 11 years as it. Which is unheard of in commercials. He said, we initially signed a one year contract, you know, and he thought, okay, it'll be there. It went 11 years. They used that thing. You could not. If depending on when you grew up, that was the only song you heard for Chevrolet trucks.
- [176:51]
Tim Constantine
For you childhood in the branding world, which I know something about. It's a story along the lines of Jared and Subway, where they intended it to just be like a. Like we're gonna try this and then flow from progress. Right, Exactly. But it took off and they could not stop it because it was just the most popular thing. And that's. That's what Like a rock became. We forget about that. The album itself is almost like an afterthought. You guys actually earlier mentioned the other song that really jumped out to me, which is the Ring, which is, you know, again, this is song about a failing marriage. It's fascinating.
- [177:24]
Unknown Speaker
Sometimes she'd stare at the stars out the window Sometimes she'd walk neath the moon Sometimes she'd sit there just watching him sleeping Hoping the dawn would come soon. She done going to school. She followed the rules. She'd always stood out from the rest. She'd go off to college and work her way through and move to some city out west. She had it all planned. She'd have her career, she'd have all of the Things.
- [178:15]
Tim Constantine
And he again reaffirms his ties to Fortunate Son, to John Fogerty, to ccr, with the last song, which I don't like. I don't like the COVID of Fortunate Song. A lot of this album feels a little bit, I don't know, unnecessary to me. There's one other track on it that did stand out a little bit. It's him cruising on his voice. It's called Miami, which is the least.
- [178:35]
Jeff Blair
Bob Seeger song title in the history of Bob Seger.
- [178:39]
Scott Bertram
Right.
- [178:39]
Tim Constantine
Because Miami, this is like. Yeah, that's not his vibe at all. He's the Detroit man. Right. And yet the song is. Song is good. And the song really just gets a lot of mileage out of the power of his voice.
- [178:50]
Scott Bertram
Let me tell you the story on Miami, because Seeger at the time had been living in Miami. He later settled in Naples, Florida, over on the East Coast. No, West Coast, Gulf coast, because it was quieter, which was his preference. But he lived in Miami at the time. And there were a lot of complaints in the 80s because of overwhelming Cuban in particular, but Hispanic population moved, moving into Miami and that you couldn't, you know, you. You go certain places and if you didn't speak Spanish, you couldn't. Some of the people would complain. The dangers would complain you. You couldn't understand what anybody was saying because no one spoke English. And Seeger's view of that was very different. And as is mine, I'm a Florida guy. And as is mine in that the Cuban people that came to Florida, A, were escaping Castro, they weren't simply. But B, they were the hardest working people you could find. They didn't come there looking for a handout. They didn't come. And that's what the song was about, is these people came looking for a better life and they found it, but they were willing to do whatever it took to get there. So it's a very powerful song when you know the story behind it. And I think of if you had someone who was a medical. An md, you know, a medical doctor in Cuba, their certificate wasn't recognized in the United States, so they'd become a pharmacist or they would do whatever they had to do, to do to make a living, they would do. And I always admired the Cuban people for their work ethic. And I think Seger captures that experience in that song. But he was living there listening to people complain about it while he's watching these people bust their behind to make a better life for themselves and their family. So it's a great song.
- [180:26]
Unknown Speaker
To find a way of life Far away from home with nothing else To Miami, oh, Miami it's all alive it's all alive.
- [181:14]
Jeff Blair
Another reason for that delay is another reason I think the album suffers. And it's a. It's a kind of average Y acceptable sort of record, I'd say. But one reason I think it suffers is because Seeger decided he was going to produce it himself. And he spent an awfully long time trying to get these songs, laboring over these songs, when frankly he should have left it to the experts. I mean, Jimmy Iovine just produced the Distance, did a fantastic job. He's going to turn to a different producer next who does a really good job. I. I think. I think Seeger just sort of overworks a lot of these songs, you know, like Tightrope in the Aftermath. Both have co writes for Craig Frost, who's a longtime, you know, key and organ guy, ostensibly for the synth parts on there because they sound very, very 80s, sort of clunky synth feel. Sometimes has the sound of like ZZ Top, afterburner era, buzzsaw guitar, cavernous dragon drums. And I, I don't think it's 86, so a lot of stuff sounds this way, I realize. But I don't think he did himself any favors at all by producing this himself and sort of getting too inside some of these songs. The only other thing I'd say about this is there's a song late called Somewhere Tonight that might have been, or that might as well have been an engraved invitation to Kenny Rogers saying, please cover this song too. It's not like a terrible song, but I hear it and like, oh, clearly he. Clearly Kenny Rogers would nail this. Like this is a song Kenny Rogers would kill even in 86. I don't, I don't think he did as far as I know. But that's a song that sounds like, hey, Kenny. Kenny. Great, great work last time. Let's do it again with Somewhere Tonight.
- [182:59]
Unknown Speaker
And the hot blue skies will shiver as the winter clouds and unless you find someone to hold Unless someone starts caring Unless you find the one you need Unless someone starts sharing when the Lord darkness.
- [183:42]
Scott Bertram
Let me ask a quick question. And that is the song American Storm. Your thoughts?
- [183:48]
Jeff Blair
I think it's a good song. You know, he wrote it.
- [183:50]
Tim Constantine
Adequate.
- [183:51]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, yeah, about. There's some, there's some undertones about drug abuse. I mean it really goes for it. Like he throws the kitchen again, production wise, throws the kitchen sink at it.
- [184:00]
Tim Constantine
Right?
- [184:00]
Jeff Blair
Yeah. Cocaine. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, as Far as on.
- [184:06]
Tim Constantine
The record, it's not, it's not like, like, like I thought it was about, like, celebrity coke abuse. I think of, like, John Belushi, that kind of a thing. It's about, like, living high and ripping it off.
- [184:16]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [184:17]
Scott Bertram
I think it's just about the scourge. And I do think this also is the Miami influence, because Miami was sure, hey, we also.
- [184:24]
Tim Constantine
Yeah.
- [184:25]
Scott Bertram
The scourge of drugs on society, which the, the lyrics. I'm like, yeah, it's okay. Musically. I love that song. Absolutely love that.
- [184:33]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [184:34]
Tim Constantine
I mean, this to me, is actually the last Seeger album or the music. I, I, it does really grip me. It's not like he gets bad now, but there's a point at which I, I, I kind of. It falls more into a formula. And I don't know what you guys think about this. Next time he starts taking his sweet time.
- [184:49]
Jeff Blair
By the way, we're gonna pause. We gotta pause.
- [184:51]
Tim Constantine
Jeff.
- [184:52]
Jeff Blair
We have to talk about Bob Seger's only number one song in his career, which, which lands in between, like a Rock and the Fire Inside. And look, I understand that real Bob Seeger heads might.
- [185:05]
Tim Constantine
I didn't want to talk about this.
- [185:06]
Jeff Blair
We gotta talk. Might have a real problem with the song, but I gotta tell you, I've always really liked Shakedown. I've always really liked Shakedown.
- [185:15]
Unknown Speaker
No matter how the race room without a few awaits downtown. You can shake me for a while Live it up it's now no matter what you do I'm going to take you down. Shake down break down, take down Everybody wants into the crowd alive Break down take Gather in a bus. Just about the time to think it. It's all right.
- [186:01]
Jeff Blair
And I know it is completely out of character. Although, again, with some of the production on like a rock, like, on like on type rope and the aftermath, it's Shakedown's not completely out of the realm of possibility for like, a next step. I know, like, the Silver Bullet Band's not involved. Seeger came in and I think just rewrote the verses on this. The song was handed to him. It was supposed to be a Glenn Fry tune. It was Beverly Hills Cop 2. He is on was great. In the first, the first one, they went back to Glenn Fry and said, hey, do it again. And Glenn Frey apparently had some laryngitis around the time they were recording, which sounds like a convenient, convenient excuse not to do the song, but whatever.
- [186:39]
Tim Constantine
I think Fry was friendly with Bob's. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Earlier, I think Fry Made it come up with an excuse, right.
- [186:47]
Jeff Blair
And handed it off to Bob.
- [186:48]
Scott Bertram
And there was a handoff there. Scott, you're right. There was a handoff there because Glenn Fry and Bob Seeger were literally best friends since they were, like, 17 years old. So there was the handoff.
- [186:59]
Tim Constantine
I forgot about the fact that Glenn Fry's from Detroit.
- [187:01]
Jeff Blair
Oh, yes.
- [187:02]
Tim Constantine
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But so that makes all the sense in the world.
- [187:05]
Jeff Blair
You guys probably hate it. That's. That's okay. The. The public loved it. And I. I did, too. I liked it. Shake Down.
- [187:12]
Tim Constantine
Bob Seeger hated it so much, I don't even think it's on his greatest hits album. His greatest hits doesn't have a number one hit single on it, which is just hilarious.
- [187:20]
Scott Bertram
Here's a little quirk you. You may or may not remember, but on that last tour, on his final tour that I was at the Detroit show that they recorded that night, and they released Shakedown, opened the show, and they released the live version of Shakedown as the single. As a. A single from that final tour. I am not a fan of the original for all the reasons you just did.
- [187:46]
Tim Constantine
It sounds a lot better when it's played live. Right?
- [187:49]
Scott Bertram
Like so many other secret things when he plays it live. So see if you can dig up that live version. And you're gonna think, wow, this song kicks it.
- [187:56]
Jeff Blair
I don't even need the Y version. I like it.
- [188:00]
Tim Constantine
Well, it's just like, you know, it's like you talk about peanut butter and jelly earlier, which is a baseball, and Bob Seger was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's more like ice cream and asparag. Well, ice cream and hot dogs. Two things that you would like, but you don't want to have them simultaneously.
- [188:17]
Jeff Blair
I don't know. Before I rudely interrupted you, Jeff, you were leading us.
- [188:20]
Tim Constantine
No, no, you were gonna help us out. Anyway, we were able to talk about. Yeah, Foxy, you're taking, like, decades now between albums, presidential administrations, literally four years per he. Finally, in 1990, 91, something like that comes out with his follow up to Like a Rock. And this is the point where, to me, at least, he disappeared, disappears from Like a Rock, which, of course, was unavoidable as a hit single. Number one. Or not number one, but number one in my heart at least. Certainly my advertising heart. I never heard a thing from the fire inside until we did this for review. I have to say that not a lot of it really stood out to me. And so here's the point where I'm asking you to persuade Me, other than the title track, which I thought was pretty interesting. Like, what is it I'm missing about this? Or is this really the beginning of the decline phase?
- [189:05]
Jeff Blair
So when we. When we start. Started this, I thought we would sort of end with Like A Rock. And I then amended and said we should say a word about Fire Inside for a couple of reasons.
- [189:14]
Tim Constantine
I love the Tom Waits songs.
- [189:16]
Jeff Blair
Two Tom Wait songs here. The Fire Inside went platinum. It was. It went number seven.
- [189:21]
Tim Constantine
It was platinum.
- [189:21]
Jeff Blair
So people were still buying Bob Seger in 1991. The other reason I thought it was interesting to mention is because much like the Distance corrects a lot of the mistakes made on against the Wind, I think the Fire Inside corrects some of the mistakes on Like A Rock. Don Was comes in and he produces this. And if you know Don Was, he is all about warm, welcoming, natural sounding production. He wants the. The artist to sound like the artist. And so Seeger kind of sounds like Seeger again on the Fire Inside. Although it's credited to the Silver Bullet Band, but they play almost nothing on here. Tons of guests. Joe Walsh, Bruce Hornsby, Steve Luke from Toto, Kenny Arnoff, the great drummer, Mike Campbell from the Heartbreakers. There's guests everywhere. Some are successful, some are not. The Joe Walsh combination I don't like at all. It's called the.
- [190:13]
Tim Constantine
Doesn't work at all, right.
- [190:14]
Jeff Blair
And I love Joe Walsh, but it doesn't work. So I. This is. This is not quite the old, you know, Willie Nelson, Bob Dylan, you know, get it, Get a hot new producer and your sound is updated. It's not quite that, but he found Don was who I think he worked really well with. And the Fire Inside is not. It's not a good Seeger album, but it's a more representative way to sort of end our discussion today than I think. Like A Rock Take A Chance is not a bad song. Sightseeing is a pretty good song actually, I think early on. And you. You hear like. I think it's violin, maybe accordion on that. So there. There are a few new tricks sprinkled in. The Tom Waits covers sound very different from perhaps what Seeger is used to, while still sounding like. Like Seeger. So it's not a. It's not a complete and total victory. But I think the Fire Inside is a decent way to sort of close the. The commercial era of Seeger, because it still did sell a lot and it sounds a little more representative than say.
- [191:16]
Unknown Speaker
Like A Rock was a magical sight to me. An E. Tangy in a gallery looking Back at me. Cause if he really knew. A marvel at the artistry creating our technology. The vision there for all to see. Bold and strong and true and I want it I want it, I want it Take that painting home. I want, I want it I want it, I want it Take that vision.
- [192:02]
Scott Bertram
I think there's a couple thoughts here. Is. Is if you talk about the title cut, I think it's just as strong as a lot of secret stuff. That piano is great. It's very different than maybe all the way back to Brave Strangers. You just don't hear lead piano on a rocking number on most of his stuff. So I like, musically, I like Fire Inside. It's kind of a sad story, you know, the. The pickup at night and you close the door in the morning when the. The person that you don't even know left because you knew they would anyway. It's just, you know, it's a quick one nighter and it's a sad story.
- [192:33]
Jeff Blair
That's right. Bitten again on piano, by the way too. Which is again another reason it works so well.
- [192:38]
Unknown Speaker
And the lights go down and they dance real close they pretend they're safe and warm and the beat gets louder and the mood is gone the darkness scatters as the lights flash on they hold one another just a little too long and they move apart and then move on onto the street onto the next Safe in the knowledge of the tribe Making a smile Hiding the pain Never satisfied.
- [193:21]
Scott Bertram
Take a chance. You mentioned. But there's my problem with this album. To me, it's really uneven. You know, you. You go to the back side of the album and it's, you know, new coat of pain. It's just, I, you know, if I never heard that again, it'd be too soon. And I. There's some stuff on here that just. You. You won't hear me say that about very much Seeger. Even if it's not the best of Seeger, I still enjoy virtually everything. A couple of tunes on this album I can't say that about. So I. And then, you know, you mentioned how there's a four year gap here into the albums and then after this album there's an even longer gap. But when you think of what's going on in Seeger's life at this time, he's meeting Juanita, he's meeting. Meeting his wife, the love of his life. And then they start having children. And I admire this about the man. And that is he chose. He's. He's still wildly famous. Whatever he does is news. Whatever Music he play, puts out, someone will play. And he chooses his family over fame. Could you see Steven Tyler ever doing that? You know, could you see any of this?
- [194:25]
Tim Constantine
We already know what happened with Liv Tyler. Didn't even know Steven Tyler or was his her dad for a long time.
- [194:30]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [194:31]
Scott Bertram
Fame is so addictive to so many people. Not the money, not in the. Just the fame itself. And see her, that was not a priority for him. The family was. So personally, gee, do I wish I had more music from him during this era? Sure, I'd love to. What's interesting is during the 90s, he moved to Naples, Florida, started raising his kids in the 90s and. But he had a home they lived in near the beach. He had a separate home, like a half million dollar home that was in a retirement area where everybody was 55 and over, but you know, beautiful homes. That was his studio, so to speak. And even though he wasn't putting out any music, he still went every day and exercised meaning, went and worked on music. Yeah, every day of his life, which I think is so cool. And I think how many songs are there from that era out there that we never heard, you know, and never will hear? Because it was just like, yeah, whatever. It wasn't a priority to him, but he still worked at it, still stayed in shape.
- [195:30]
Tim Constantine
Well, here's the. Here's the fascinating part. I mean, most times when you get to a greatest hits collection, it's just sort of like a marking time thing. I only wanted to point this out first of all because in terms of what I've listened to, I'm probably not prepared with any intelligence really to go much further beyond this point in Secret Seeger's career. But also because I think Bob Seeger's Greatest Hits is a noteworthy album insofar as it is a retcon of his entire damn career. In a strange way, I already pointed out his only number one single is not on Bob Seeger's Greatest Hits. What is on Bob Seeger's Greatest Hits is just the stuff from the second half of his career. I mean, there isn't even a song from Beautiful Loser on this album, which is shocking to me because I think it's one of his finest records. As we've already already talked about. It's just a lot of Stranger in Town, Some Night Moves, Some against the Wind. There's one song from the Distance. It's a very strange kind of a way for him to portray his career, which I think kind of ended up governing what I thought about Seeger. For decades. Because, you know, whenever I thought, you know, other than what I'd heard on the radio, well, I'm in a mood to explore this guy. What does anybody have hanging around? It was always just this greatest hits album. And the songs on this record, we've discussed almost all of them in. Individually, they're fine songs. Do they really represent the full course of a shape of his career, if you're familiar? No, not even close. It's not even close to doing. It's just the hits and I would argue not even the best of the hits. Instead, you have this sort of kind of sculpted view of what Bob Seager wanted to be. Maybe the stuff that hit most commercially. I've heard people say, well, this is.
- [197:11]
Jeff Blair
Like an act of deception, like an.
- [197:13]
Tim Constantine
Intentional act, blah, blah, blah. I don't know if I by that, but it's just like one of those places where I would almost argue the worst possible place you could go to learn about Bob Seeger is his standard issue greatest hits album. Because it's so limited. These songs are all great, but he was much more than just that.
- [197:31]
Scott Bertram
Here's a wonderful little piece of trivia for you though. On. On that album. When you say, you know, for years that was all you knew, you're not alone in that. If you go from the year 2000 to 2010, that decade, the number one selling music album of that decade was Bob Seager's Greatest Sets.
- [197:49]
Tim Constantine
I didn't know that.
- [197:50]
Jeff Blair
10 to 10 million sold. That was a huge record. Huge.
- [197:55]
Scott Bertram
Yeah, yeah.
- [197:56]
Tim Constantine
I mean, see, but clearly he knew what he was doing then.
- [197:59]
Jeff Blair
Yeah.
- [197:59]
Tim Constantine
Because I mean, the man had some sort of craft going on there. It's almost hard to fault him. Like you tip your cat for knowing. Knowing your mark and hitting it. Right. But it makes me feel bad because I just think there's a lot more to this guy than what you would get on that simple summary.
- [198:14]
Jeff Blair
There is a Greatest Hits 2, which was released at some point with some of those songs and Shakedown and then.
- [198:21]
Tim Constantine
Finally returns on Volume two. That's good to know.
- [198:23]
Jeff Blair
And then there's also a couple of more studio records. It's a Mystery, which is totally out of print and not streaming. So Bob must not like it. Face the Distance came out at some point. Here's where we go back and rely on our guest, our real Bob's Seeger fan from a very early age. Tim, is there anything that we should know about?
- [198:41]
Tim Constantine
What are we missing from Wade Seer?
- [198:42]
Jeff Blair
Yeah, two decades or so.
- [198:43]
Scott Bertram
Yeah, absolutely. It's a mystery. Has some great stuff. It's. There's a song on there called Lock and Load that just rocks again, lyrically, very strong song on there called Manhattan that musically is completely unique for what he does in his 50 years of recording. But the song, it builds slowly and he's almost. He's telling the story as opposed to singing. He's telling you the story as they go through. And musically it builds and builds and builds and erupts. And it's about a guy who is a drug addict and he's prepping himself. He doesn't have any money and he doesn't have any drugs, and so he's prepping himself to go. He's in New York City and he preps himself to go. And he's going to rob a liquor store. And he goes, you know, a few blocks away because he doesn't think anybody's seen him down there. And he goes in and he ends up shooting the clerk, killing the clerk when he steals enough money to go out and get his heroin or whatever his works are. But then the twist in the song is that he. In the morning, he's dead on a park bench. He got some bad stuff, so he went and gets his. Shut up. And. And. And the finish to the song is, you know, two more dead bodies, meaning the poor clerk who got shot and the junkie who's now dead on the bench. A lot of paperwork moves around. Just another day in this great big town. And it's. It's really rips your heart out as you listen to where it goes. Musically, it is really, really strong. So a great album. A great, great song on the album.
- [200:17]
Unknown Speaker
What song is Long Coat scribbles off a short note, sets himself down and waits for the sun to go down. It's right around midnight and there's still too damn many people on this street. He's walked all the way from Battery Park. He's got sweaty hands and burning feet. He's desperate for a fix. His body's screaming get me high. He bursts through the door and lets one fly.
- [201:07]
Scott Bertram
There's another one on there called revisionism Streak. And I'm particularly appreciative of this because.
- [201:15]
Tim Constantine
Streak actually himself, doesn't he now? Right? Yeah.
- [201:18]
Scott Bertram
Well, when you talk about, you know, the. The in politics or in pop music or anywhere else, then, you know, there's the story as it happens, and then there's the story as it gets told later. And there's a line in there where he says, you know, the. The two. Two people get turned away they go to some fashionable restaurant and they get turned away at the door. And he says, just a couple of years ago they were in fashion, meaning, you know, they could get it anywhere. But the arc of fame's natural course has turned its course corner on them. And these people aren't hip anymore. And, you know, but it's. It's so true in so many aspects of life. So if you haven't heard it's a mystery, go listen to it. There's a couple of weak songs on there, but in general, it's a really good album. Really. If you like Seeger, it's a great album.
- [202:00]
Unknown Speaker
The ark of stardom's natural core.
- [202:05]
Jeff Blair
The.
- [202:05]
Unknown Speaker
Inevitable decline the wolves waiting at the door Dig up something really nasty let's get some clay around their feet no one's memory is sacred around here on revisionism street we'll never be in the arena and we'll never have to defeat Will never write the classic novel and we'll never have to be discreet.
- [202:49]
Scott Bertram
And then. But I have to tell you, the. The last album, last studio album that came out called I knew you Went I think is as good as any Seeger album in many ways. He's got a song on there, if you're familiar with Glenn's song that was about when Glenn Frey died. He and Glenn had been friends since they were teenagers. And you think in terms of that and, and, you know, we've compared early on, you talked about Springsteen and he writing, and we talked about the writing style. Springsteen and he are the only guys that I'm aware of that effectively capture life at the other end. There's a lot of writers who capture teenagers angst or first love or all the things you go through when you're 15, 18, 20 years old. That's what pop music is all about. But very few writers are still writing about life experience or at least doing so effectively when they're 70 or older. And both Springsteen and Seeger do that really well because there are emotions in life when all of a sudden Springsteen's got a song called Last Man Standing and he. He realizes his high school band, all the guys have died except him. He's the only. And he's like, oh, my God. It's a realization moment that you're the only one left. You're getting old. And Seeger does that really well on I knew you when. When he talks about Glenn's song and he's just, you know, it's, it's. It tugs at the heartstrings because if you know the story, you know, he and Glenn Frey were really, really close friends since they were kids. And you think. Think in terms of, you know, I've got friends, you know, Robbie or Bruce or guys that I grew up with, you know, it. It. It brings tears to my eyes if I think, God, they're going to be gone at some point, because I've known them forever, you know, since you were 10 or 12 or 15, and. And he really effectively cap.
- [204:48]
Unknown Speaker
And your love. You were strong, you were sharp, but you had the deepest heart. Showed the whole world what we knew. There was no one quite like you.
- [205:26]
Scott Bertram
But throughout that whole album, I knew you. When it sounds like Seeger lyrically, it's strong. It has some slow stuff. It has some strong, strong stuff. There's a song called Lyrics Listen, and it's really geared toward his kids. This is a man with adult children, and he talks in terms of. You can hear it. If you listen. If you really take the time. If you listen past bravado, if you listen past the wine, meaning sometimes as parents, you still see your kids as kids, and, you know, you're just listening. You're having a glass of wine, you're not paying attention, you know, or the kid is telling you the story, and it's bigger than life because they're full of the bravado. But he's. You got to really listen. You got to pay attention. They're an adult now. You have to hear what they're saying and sort through it. Dad doesn't necessarily have all the answers, and so it's. It's just a. It's a powerful song from the opposite end of life. And. And so I'm fascinated by it because he does so well when you go to that early stuff of capturing teenagers in the backseat of the car. So it's fascinating to hear him. He just turned 81 in May this year. 80. I'm sorry, 80 this year in May. And so to hear, you know, an old man talk about that aspect of life, capture it, and deliver it to you where you can hear it, feel it, and understand it, that guy still has the gift.
- [206:55]
Unknown Speaker
When the world becomes indifferent and the words become unclear if you listen past the anger, if you listen past the fear everyone's elusive but the truth is always near if you listen, you will hear.
- [207:28]
Tim Constantine
What a great way to wrap it up.
- [207:29]
Jeff Blair
Fantastic. And now Jeff and I have assignments to go catch up on a few songs in these last few records. Yeah, the part of the episode now where your hosts give you two albums, you must own five Songs you need to hear from our featured artist today, Bob Seeger. We start with our guest, Tim Constantine. You can also find him on the Capitol Hill Show. Tim Constantine Dot com. Big time Bob Seger fan, Tim, your two albums and your five songs.
- [208:00]
Scott Bertram
Please put me in the time capsule and send me back to 1976, and I'm a happy guy. Night Moves is the greatest album in the history of music of the world. So that is number one. Take that, listen to it, relish it, enjoy every minute of it, and listen to it over and over and over. The horn section in there, everything about about that album is great. And then the second is Live bullet, also from 1976. And live bullet, I. I like for a couple reasons. It highlights with such power so many good songs from those early years, and it does it well. But I will tell you, when I was a kid, we always talked in terms of Desert island discs. If you could only have one album, what would that album be? You're Trapped, Stranded Somewhere. And I always picked Live Bullet, and I would pick that even ahead of Night Moves only because it had more material. I thought, all right, if I got to be stranded and I could only listen to one album for the rest of my life, I want 78 minutes of music instead of 38 minutes of music. So I would take Live Bullet, but it's just. It's a great representation of who Seeger is and what he is. As far as the five songs, Night Moves is number one by far. It's just my favorite song in the history of the world. And so I. You know, we've already talked about that. I don't need to go back, but I think there's a couple of hidden gems as we go. I just mentioned one of them, and that's Glenn's song. There's a couple along the way. I also mentioned Manhattan, and that's from It's a Mystery. Manhattan is just. It's different than anything else because it's a tragic story. I. I think in terms of, you know, sometimes you've got a really good movie, but it has a sad ending, so it never becomes a hit. People don't want to go and end up their two hours at a movie theater coming out feeling bad. And Manhattan's a really sad story, musically, is so good and. And lyrically it's so powerful. It's worth the listen. But if we go back through time, I'm going to pick a funny, fun one from Straight Stranger in Town Till It Shines. I did when I was in high school. We had to get up and read poetry and as you can imagine, most 16, 17 year old boys were not thrilled at the idea of getting up and reading Robert Frost or something. And I went after class and I said, hey, is it okay if I do some lyrics from a song? And you said yes, that's absolutely. That's poetry. And I did Till It Shines and that's what I read. And it's. Musically, it's one of those mid tempo Seeger songs that you'd recognize as Seeger from anywhere. But it's got a great place in my heart because at that time if I can't even tell you what the meaning. I can tell you what I think the meaning of the song is. But to me personally it meant something when I was 17 and I can't tell you now what that was, but I got up and shared that in front of a room of 22 other teenagers and that was a big deal at the time. So I would say go back to. And listen to Till It Shines and then, you know, I'll. I'll throw out a couple of fun ones and. And we hit on these and. And this is. We talked a lot about it, but the public may not be as aware. Back in 72, the title cut. I think it's a great song. I. For a lot of reasons I like the music lyrically, it's. You talked about it, it's got that twist, that punch, that little bit of negative to it and more than a little bit. And so I think that's a absolute gem that 99% of people have never heard because you can't find it anywhere. So you'll find it in the Tim Constantine collection at home, but you can't find it very many places. And then, boy, if we go. I'm trying to think of something in between. There are a couple of songs that as my final one, there were a couple songs that he wrote to his children that I found very powerful. But I guess, you know, if, if we go back I would maybe pick from. And it's not your favorite album, I know, but from against the Wind, Stein and Brightly just because I like. I remember at. Even as a kid thinking it was such an optimistic song, you know, that tomorrow's a. A great day feel of that song. That. And it finishes that album and, and so you finish it on such a high note. Everything on that album isn't a high note, but you finish it on such a positive, upbeat, happy, look to the future kind of note that I, I always enjoyed that. And that's one. If you are from that most popular era of Seeger, you may or may not be familiar with. But if it's later on, it might have been easy to pass that by. If you're a later fan, it might be easy to by. And it's just such an optimistic song. I. I think that's a great one to end on.
- [212:59]
Jeff Blair
All right. My two albums from Bob Seger, I think. I think back in 72, as hard as it is going to be to find, although you can go to YouTube and find a stream, that's one that you really have to hear. That's when he starts to figure things out. And then night moves from 76. Those are the two albums I would recommend. Back in 72 and night night moves. And the five songs. Tim already has one, which is back in 72. The title track to that album is on my list. Jody Girl, for the reasons I explained earlier, I think has to be heard from Beautiful Loser. Really good song. Main street and feel like a number from those big albums in the late 70s. And then if we go to the Distance below, Leadoff track Even now is as good as anything he's done. Fantastic song. Those are my five. Jeff, over to you.
- [213:54]
Tim Constantine
Well, all right. I'm actually. I am haunted by the difficulty of this task, because there are two different ways you could answer it. I mean, the most obvious way to answer it would be to say get Live Bullet and then get Bob Seeger's Greatest Hits there. Because Live Bullet was meant to be a greatest hits album and, you know, all but name and then Greatest Hits is the stuff that he did mostly after. After that time. But I'm gonna try to actually keep it real here and stick to albums. And I'm gonna give it the way I normally handle this. Is this maximum spread. So for the two albums, I'll say first it's Beautiful Loser 75, which is just really where it all comes together perfectly, in my opinion, for Seeger. I'm surprised no one else mentioned it. I'm surprised you guys thought I was strange to single it out. This, to me, is actually very clearly better than either, you know, Night Moves or Strange you're in Town. The other one I'd mention is the Distance, which is the surprise for me in this journey, the one that really showed me that he wasn't out of gas after against the Win. I really love that album. I love the spirit of that album, the optimism, the hardship of that album. It's a real album. It doesn't see it's 80s. And yet it doesn't feel fake like so many other things, including some of Bruce Springsteen's albums, frankly, felt a little bit artificial during that era. It's a real show shock for me in terms of the songs. Boy, again, this is the problem where there's so many of those great early Bob Seeger singles that I feel people really should hear that you can't recommend A Good Conscience, A, because they're hard to find, and B, because they ultimately ended up being a footnote to his career. So I'm going to leave them behind and I guess I'll start with back in 72. And this one is a song I didn't actually mention during the show. And it shocks me, it makes me feel bad, but I'm glad I'm getting it. Getting to it here. It's Neon, Neon sky, which to me is one of. Very clearly, to me, one of the five best songs Bob Seeger ever wrote. He's talking about being again on the road. The neon sky or the neon lights that he just sees every night when he's out there doing. But it's such a beautiful musical track. That throbbing little bass line. It's carried along by the keyboards. A forgotten corner of this man's career that he is in no hurry to resurrect for reasons I still don't understand. Speaking of which, from another out of print album, UMC from 7. About the upper middle class, the sort of sedate joys of aspiring to, you know, just be able to go out and, you know, take a. You know, take a ride on your boat every now and then. If you're living on Lake Michigan, or actually not Lake Michigan, if you're in Detroit, but. Yeah, exactly, I'm in Chicago, so I say Lake Michigan, but you get it. The idea of just sort of not being rich, not being a billionaire, not being Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous, but just having more than enough money to get by and enjoy the creature comforts of what was supposed to be then at that time. So 70s life again. Now I'm going to just prove that I don't understand Bob Seager by picking out Sunburst. Night Moves, his least favorite song on that album. Apparently it's my favorite song on the record. And Night Moves itself, the title track, it's a great song about being awkward when you're hooking up. Boy, I remember those times. But, yeah, give me the Prague flute song. I'm into that. For Hollywood, or rather for straight. Yeah, for Stranger in Town. Hollywood Nights may be Simple. But to me, it's quintessential, essentially what Bob Seger was always about, certainly on the radio. And I cannot help but love that song. And I guess, you know, since, you know, we, we're sticking on Stranger in Town. I'll say Feel Like a Number is similarly another big single, but this one, to me is more, in fact, than Hollywood Nights. This one has a message, a theme, a lyric that really speaks to everything Seeger was about. If it wasn't for the last song, and I'm going to have to execute host prerogative here, my bonus track number six, it has to be Roll Me Away, a song I did not know about until we did this episode. But God, the spirit of that. Just getting out of life's troubles. Rolling on. You meet that girl, she wants the same thing out she throws her arms around you she straps your hands across my engines and boy, baby, we were born to run. Whereas Born to Run, though, is about youth. This is about old people who've already seen things and know what it is they're actually going away from. And that maybe for me, at the age of 44, is precisely why it feels so much more liberating. Because these people actually know what, what it is they're looking for because they know where it's where, where it is they've been. And that's really what Bob Seger ended up standing for. You know, this music, when I finally discovered it at this late date.
- [218:14]
Unknown Speaker
Staring out at the great divide I could go east, I could go west it was all up to me to decide Just then I saw young Hawk flying and my soul began to rise.
- [218:33]
Jeff Blair
And.
- [218:34]
Tim Constantine
Pretty soon.
- [218:38]
Unknown Speaker
My heart was singing Roll, roll me away I'm going to roll me away tonight Got to keep rolling Got to keep riding Keep searching till I find what and as the sunset faded I spoke to the latest first star. I said next time, next time we'll get it right.
- [219:14]
Jeff Blair
There we go, the Political Beats. Look at the music and career of Bob Seeger. Think our guest, Tim Constantine. See him interviewing presidents and prime ministers on the Capitol Hill show out of Washington D.C. he's on x imconstantine1 and timconstantine.com Tim, great perspective, great insight. Thank you so much for joining us on Political Beats.
- [219:37]
Scott Bertram
Thank you, kind sir. It has been a pleasure looking back.
- [219:42]
Jeff Blair
Jeff. We've got the next few months planned out and in a particularly summer type show coming, coming next month for our listeners. Yeah, should be fun.
- [219:51]
Tim Constantine
I'm getting my beach shoes on.
- [219:53]
Jeff Blair
Find Jeff on x@ esoteric CD. I'm there at Scott Bertram. Again, we ask you to join us at Our Patreon page patreon.com Politicalbeats entry level, mid level and upper level Support there to help the show and the program. Patreon.com Political beats also find our Facebook feeds. Subscribe Apple Podcast at elsewhere or@nationalreview.com find us on Facebook or on X. Join the conversation there at politicalbeats. This has been a presentation of National Review. This is Political Beats.
- [220:39]
Unknown Speaker
RA.